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Next two matches

Sunday 29 September 2019 v Doncaster Knights at Kingston Park, 3.00pm (Cup)

Saturday 5 October Away Hartpury RFC v Newcastle Falcons 2.30pm (Cup)

RESULT: Saturday 21 September 2019 Jersey Reds 8 v Newcastle Falcons 21 (Cup)


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Re: Time to relegate relegation?
limpopo 11 July, 2016 13:55
Quote:Restrictions on stadium size etc should be scrapped too.

One of the principles behind this requirement is safety, both for players who may have suffered serious injury, as well as spectators.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Leipziger 11 July, 2016 17:45
Quote:
limpopo
Quote:Restrictions on stadium size etc should be scrapped too.
One of the principles behind this requirement is safety, both for players who may have suffered serious injury, as well as spectators.

I didn't see any safety issues at any Championship grounds during our season there. If a stadium is safe for the Championship (according to the club's local authority) then surely it's safe for the Premiership too, including Bedford's sloping pitch on which Saracens played a home LV game not too long ago.

Hideo - agree on two-up two-down. By making it more likely that a relegated team will come straight back up, fear of relegation should ease.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 11 July, 2016 19:50
The safety issue was very well explained a few years ago. It primarily relates to player safety as the game is played at a higher intensity by more powerful players and consequently you should expect more injuries of a more severe nature.

Another good point was made about media facilities, and I am sure Ramshackle Smith could vouch for that along with all the telly crews.

The aspect that makes no sense at all is stadium capacity and the number of toilets. Just because a small club gains promotion doesn't mean that they get 10,200 people turning up for the first game all bursting for a pee. If the ground criteria were revised using a little common sense so that medical & media facilities had to be upgraded immediately, but the ground could grow organically in line with crowd numbers it would make promotion easier.

The elephant in the room is still lurking however in that no matter how many toilets a club has, the squad can't grow from a £1.5m budget to a Premiership £5m budget (minimum) overnight. Even Bristol with their vast budget found it a struggle to attract the players they need to carry the squad beyond mere promotion while they were still in the Championship. Unless the squad aspect of a club can be allowed to grow too it is just going to be London Welsh all over again. The only suggestion that I have heard that takes this into account is to protect a promoted club from relegation for two years.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
bulmer22 11 July, 2016 19:55
Imagine this if you can..... Mowden make enough revenue from concerts etc to get into the Premiership. Ground criteria no problem. Leeds, whatever brand they are marketed under, get their act together. Ground criteria no problem. Would you rather watch Falcons play 2 derby matches away ? or travel to Exeter, Bristol, etc etc. We need another team from the North in the Premiership, and I hope one day that will happen. Two up and two down will help to break the cartel.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Kwa444 12 July, 2016 11:38
Very exciting Bulmer.

However sadly in the realities of life and the need for a sustainable business environment for goth and development, it is far more likely that on the current basis we will have no top flight clubs North of Leicester than what you suggest.

Falcons hover at the brink regularly, Sale are not much better and Yorkshire (whatever they are now called) show no real signs of being any more than Welsh have been.

I have always advocated promotion and relegation but where the top league is ring fenced and increased in size until there are enough teams to produce two competitive leagues of 10. I wouldn't be surprised if Super 18 doesn't end up there in a few years despite having vastly smaller resources in terms of players and finance than we do!

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Garym 12 July, 2016 15:05
Quote:
Leipziger
Quote:
limpopo
Quote:Restrictions on stadium size etc should be scrapped too.
One of the principles behind this requirement is safety, both for players who may have suffered serious injury, as well as spectators.

I didn't see any safety issues at any Championship grounds during our season there. If a stadium is safe for the Championship (according to the club's local authority) then surely it's safe for the Premiership too, including Bedford's sloping pitch on which Saracens played a home LV game not too long ago.

Hideo - agree on two-up two-down. By making it more likely that a relegated team will come straight back up, fear of relegation should ease.

Doesn't the last statement, make the point for no relegation if it just becomes a merry go round for those at the bottom?

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Leipziger 12 July, 2016 18:34
Garym - no because it wouldn't always be the same teams involved. Two-up, two-down should also incentivise investment in the Cship as it would be easier to get promoted.

Monkey - why does the higher intensity of the game in the Premiership have an effect, and what does it actually affect? Is a player more likely to be injured severely in a Premiership match if it's played at e.g. Moseley than at Welford Road? Genuine questions, I've never heard anything about this.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 12 July, 2016 20:03
Quote:
Leipziger
Monkey - why does the higher intensity of the game in the Premiership have an effect, and what does it actually affect? Is a player more likely to be injured severely in a Premiership match if it's played at e.g. Moseley than at Welford Road? Genuine questions, I've never heard anything about this.

That relates to the need for better medical facilities at Prem grounds. There was a very good explanation for some of the ground criteria posted up a few years back. It made sense that bigger & stronger players coming together at higher speeds & competing more fiercely will tend to have worse injuries. It has nothing to do with the ground or state of the pitch, all down to the qualities of the players involved in the game. Hence PRL quite rightly insists that Premiership grounds must meet a certain standard of medical facilities.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
limpopo 14 July, 2016 10:24
Precisely the point that I was making Monkey and which the PRL did for very sensible and medically practical reasons. Width of corridors, access for emergency and moving injured players through to an ambulance, just some of the reasons and not just about toilets as some suggest.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Poking With Sticks 15 July, 2016 13:43
Quote:
Monkey1
Bristol & Exeter with their moneybags backers now look like being the last teams that will ever make the move......

I don't see why this should be the case. Exeter wouldn't be where they are now without Tony Rowe I daresay, but not because he's poured money into the club - he hasn't. Also, I don't know his net worth but I don't think he's rich enough to do a Bruce Craig. Rowe's input has been to make the club run as a business and become sustainable. That in turn allowed Exe to upgrade to a new ground and create a strong squad to transition from Championship to AP. He hasn't given the club money - SW Comms is a sponsor, same as every other club has. There's no real reason why another club couldn't do the same if there's a market for it.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 15 July, 2016 15:06
Anybody who lives outside of Exeter can see plain as day that Tony Rowe ploughs big money into the club via his company, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it is the most tax efficient way of doing it. For some bizarre reason, people who live in or near Exeter just won't accept that to be the case. Must be something in the water.

I do take your point, that if for example Rotherham were to find a rugby enthusiast with a hugely profitable telecoms business, and that telecoms business decided that spending huge amounts of money in 'sponsorship' of Rotherham rugby club was just what the company needed to get their message out there (just coincidence of course, nothing to do with the company big cheese also being involved with the rugby club), then Rotherham could find themselves competing at the top level too.

That is the reality of the current league structures. Unless one of the Championship clubs finds such a backer they will be forever excluded form realistically competing in the Premiership.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Kwa444 15 July, 2016 15:36
Which sort of makes the point about sustainability and allowing clubs making the grade a chance to settle and then adding more clubs to a league until it is big enough to split into two.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
CharlieDog 15 July, 2016 16:23
Jersey aren't short of a few wealthy fans and are steadily building like Wuss and Exeter - I wouldn't mind a regular trip over there in the Premiership........

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Houghton Saint 17 July, 2016 08:48
Relegation did not do Saints nor Quins any harm and it keeps the interest level going to the bitter end unless the bottom club in the Premiership has a complete meltdown as Welsh did a couple of years ago. Ground regulations should be relaxed for the promoted club to give them a chance in their first season. The prospect of a trip to Cornwall or Jersey sounds a good one compared to playing in a third full football stadium !

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 17 July, 2016 09:13
The game has moved on a lot since those teams were relegated, it must be about 10 years since Quins played at Bedford. The gap has widened since then, Premiership players are trained to a fitness & intensity level that could only be dreamed of back then. It is now very difficult for Championship players to step up to that level in just a few months, and it doesn't do the relegated squad any good at all to have that level of competition removed from them for a whole season. Looking to the next ten years, that gap is only going to widen further unless something changes.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Rinkadink 17 July, 2016 12:48
What needs to change is teir two funding.

Would address so many issues.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Leipziger 17 July, 2016 19:09
Quote:
Rinkadink
What needs to change is teir two funding.
Would address so many issues.

Yep, that's the key really.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Monkey1 18 July, 2016 08:03
Agreed. And it can only benefit the national game to have the Championship clubs bringing more English players to a higher level.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Poking With Sticks 18 July, 2016 12:13
Quote:
Monkey1
Anybody who lives outside of Exeter can see plain as day that Tony Rowe ploughs big money into the club via his company, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it is the most tax efficient way of doing it. For some bizarre reason, people who live in or near Exeter just won't accept that to be the case. Must be something in the water.

To be honest I've no idea what the sponsorship with SW Comms is worth or how it compares to other club sponsors. Also not sure what the rules are re tax write-offs via sponsorship deals. But SW Comms has a turnover of about £25 million per annum as far as I know so I'm not sure it can afford to go crazy when it comes to sponsorship. I'm also not sure how it would benefit Mr Rowe. The club's owned by a consortium of supporters, so the only way he makes money is if the sponsorship works. He doesn't own the club, so he doesn't have ultimate power.

Re: Time to relegate relegation?
Gray_Lensman 18 July, 2016 14:19
Plymouth were sponsored for several years by the wonderfully named Interfish. They tried to set their sponsorship payments (about £1.2M) against their tax bill and eventually ended up in the Court of Appeal where it was ruled that the payments weren't wholly and exclusively for the benefit of Interfish's trade. Instead it looked like the payments were intended to bolster Plymouth's financial position and even to directly recruit players. Which wasn't to say that Interfish didn't get benefits itself, just that wasn't the sole (!) object.

South West Communications also had problems with HMRC about payments they said were made so that Tony Rowe could contribute funds to the club. That one fell apart because of a review that said the cost of a hearing was disproportionate to the sums involved (I think it was a payment of about £100k over and above the existing sponsorship deal). In fact HMRC ended up paying costs on that one, so a good deal for everyone except the Government and the poor saps that fund it.

But it does make you wonder if SWCG are paying over the odds on their sponsorship of Exeter. Although the old rule was “if a trader is actuated by none but commercial motives, the Crown cannot merely say he has paid too much”.

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