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3rd April 2020

RFU Confirmed Newcastle Falconsí promotion to the Gallagher Premiership for the 2020-21 season


Annual accounts.
Discussion started by Wensleydale Falcon , 03 April, 2019 13:39
Annual accounts.
Wensleydale Falcon 03 April, 2019 13:39
Bath Rugby have just announced their accounts for year ending June 2018. A reported loss of £3.1 million.

Crazy in my opinion, and i am sure that all the other clubs (maybe bar one) will be something similar.

Completely unsustainable long term and solutions need to be found for the long term good of the game.

We rugby supporters have a great deal to be thankful for when we have owners prepared to suffer these losses on an annual basis!!

Re: Annual accounts.
aidanb 03 April, 2019 15:58
ringfence it and secure the funding for all

Re: Annual accounts.
Timeshock! 03 April, 2019 19:05
The answer is easy, get a grip on the costs or hand it on for someone else to pick up the costs/losses. if you don't get a grip then Premiership football is the perfect model

Re: Annual accounts.
dick g 03 April, 2019 20:46
Quote:
aidanb
ringfence it and secure the funding for all

Essential if clubs are to survive.

Re: Annual accounts.
Exiled Falcon 03 April, 2019 21:31
But Bath arenít exactly perennial relegation candidates but still made a ridiculous loss.

Thereís no doubt finances as they are other than with one or two exceptions are unsustainable and the concept of a club making such a loss while no doubt paying some players pretty hefty wages is ludicrous.

Yes we owe the owners a big thanks but itís not a healthy state of affairs. Maybe ringfencing makes sense financially (but arguably not from other angles) but maybe we just need a large scale reassessment of what players can earn. Yes itís great they can get handsome salaries but itís quite obvious the sport as it is canít afford to pay these salaries.

Re: Annual accounts.
Falc Dancer 08 April, 2019 13:54
The clubs accounts are out
Losses of £3.9m for year ending June 2018
However turnover up from £9.7m to £10.9m

[www.chroniclelive.co.uk]

Re: Annual accounts.
Monkey1 08 April, 2019 14:42
Ouch!

All I can say is thank you Semore.

Re: Annual accounts.
Bedlington Lad 08 April, 2019 15:37
Echo that Monkey

Re: Annual accounts.
Falc Dancer 08 April, 2019 17:03
Semore has mentioned at the fans forums that the club arenít far from break even. Looking at those figures, debt going up, I canít see how they can be

Re: Annual accounts.
Monkey1 08 April, 2019 20:03
Those figures are almost a year out of date remember. I will take a guess that they know what they are doing & have plans to work to. At least our club is aiming to stand on its own two feet one day, most others don't seem to give a flying hoot.

Re: Annual accounts.
NorfolkFalcon 08 April, 2019 20:10
This season we had the rumoured £1 million budget reduction in wages so Iíd imagine next seasons figures will look healthier.

Still, thank you as always Semore.

Re: Annual accounts.
alas 08 April, 2019 22:07
Plenty of losses elsewhere, apart from Exeter. [www.theguardian.com]

Re: Annual accounts.
Exiled Falcon 08 April, 2019 22:37
Nearly £4m loss on a turnover of nearly £11m is simply bonkers, as is the whole financial health of club rugby apart from Exeter. Wasps losses as a percentage of turnover are bordering on comical theyíre so ridiculous.

Maybe salaries need to be restricted to a certain percentage of turnover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2019 22:52 by Exiled Falcon.

Re: Annual accounts.
Yorksfalcon 09 April, 2019 11:08
Iím fully against ring-fencing I think it will vastly reduce the excitement of late season fixtures in the lower half of the table. I also think for the average punter a season in the championship isnít that bad getting to visit new grounds or ones you have not been to in a long time, winning almost every week. However the club losing 4m a year is the only reasonable argument for it, can you imagine ploughing 4m a year into the club only to see it relegated and you getting hit with even greater financial losses. We owe a great debt, both of gratitude and financially, to our owner and the bottom line is peopleís livelihoods are on the line here so something has to be done. Iíd be more in favour of limiting spending/ losses in some way but ringfencing seems sensible from a financial point of view. Which is unfortunate really, especially for the championship clubs as the gap will just widen.

Re: Annual accounts.
aidanb 09 April, 2019 11:25
Quote:
Yorksfalcon
Iím fully against ring-fencing I think it will vastly reduce the excitement of late season fixtures in the lower half of the table. I also think for the average punter a season in the championship isnít that bad getting to visit new grounds or ones you have not been to in a long time, winning almost every week. However the club losing 4m a year is the only reasonable argument for it, can you imagine ploughing 4m a year into the club only to see it relegated and you getting hit with even greater financial losses. We owe a great debt, both of gratitude and financially, to our owner and the bottom line is peopleís livelihoods are on the line here so something has to be done. Iíd be more in favour of limiting spending/ losses in some way but ringfencing seems sensible from a financial point of view. Which is unfortunate really, especially for the championship clubs as the gap will just widen.

It is hard on them but why should they be allowed the chance to be at the top table when so far they (mostly) havenít shown the financial commitment (losses) to be there.

Re: Annual accounts.
aidanb 09 April, 2019 11:50
The champions, Saracens, lost nearly £4m, although £48m in loans to the parent company by their owner, Nigel Wray, have been turned into equity and taken off the balance sheet.

Re: Annual accounts.
Wensleydale Falcon 09 April, 2019 11:54
A little off topic here, but word coming out of Yorkshire Carnegie that they will be going part time due to their failure to find investors (or as a friend recently put it - donators)

English rugby is going to be treading a very dangerous path in my opinion if it doesnít get proactive in securing the long term structure and financial sustainability of the game.

More evidence, if needed, that ringfencing has to happen as the lack of desire and financial willingness by club owners not to incur these huge losses (and rightly so in my opinion) continues to widen what is already a huge gap between the Championship and Premiership.

Add to this the complete lack of investors that are out there as proven, if this is to be true for a great club like YC who have over the years produced a great production line of top quality players.

Got to feel for all involved at YC!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2019 12:04 by Wensleydale Falcon.

Re: Annual accounts.
aidanb 09 April, 2019 12:10
Yes WensleydaleFalcon it is a massive problem.

Lets not wait any longer, lets enjoy the drama of this season and then the day after they can announce that LI will come up and no one is going down.

then next season the same can happen and then it's drawbridge time for a period of time to allow stability in the both Divisions.

Re: Annual accounts.
Wensleydale Falcon 09 April, 2019 13:14
Canít see it happening that quickly Aidan.

The Guardian reports a combined loss close to £50 million for the 13 PRL stakeholders (not including Worcester, as their accounts have been filed late) with Wasps losing £10 million on a reported £32 million turnover.

London Irish reported a near £10 million loss with a large amount of this attributable to their relegation.

Madness...absolute bloody madness!!

Re: Annual accounts.
Wensleydale Falcon 09 April, 2019 15:30
Statement from Yorkshire Carnegie attributing their decision to go part-time being down to the cost of chasing the Premiership dream.
The next few steps from the RFU are going to be absolutely critical for the future if the game in England.

Re: Annual accounts.
aidanb 09 April, 2019 17:09
I can't see how it won't happen that quickly

The Premier League clubs - all 13 of them have already stated their preferred position is security.

They have already sold a share of their deal to private money and now the RFU need to get on board a deal to secure the Premier League status or sit back and watch the clubs sail off into the distance.

That is only my view by the way as i have no idea what is actually happening

Re: Annual accounts.
Exiled Falcon 09 April, 2019 20:36
Think as a post script to Carnegieís statement you need to add that there is obviously little interest in rugby union in Leeds / that part of Yorkshire so gate receipts are presumably pretty poor which wonít help.

The situation at the moment you could say is all clubs other than Exeter are in effect cheating as theyíre spending ridiculous amounts more than their turnovers, in other words money they donít have. Sadly now the game is in the hands of a few well off gents who bank roll the clubs (and yes, we do owe them a debt of gratitude) so there will inevitably be conflict with the RFU. Yes the RFU need to take action and intervene but club owners are going to resist any perceived meddling with their clubs.

One thing I reckon is beyond doubt is salaries of £500k, £750k, £1m are totally unrealistic as things stand now.

Re: Annual accounts.
chiplad 10 April, 2019 18:22
But there are players earning these amounts as we speak. So it it is realistic.

Re: Annual accounts.
Exiled Falcon 10 April, 2019 19:53
Theyíre earning these amounts and the top flight are losing about £50m between 11 clubs, I think you could counter that it obviously isnít realistic, hence the ridiculous losses.

Re: Annual accounts.
steve1888 11 April, 2019 10:13
But , if teams then spend less through ringfencing and bring in less stars would then shorten the gap between the championship clubs anyway ?

Re: Annual accounts.
Bedlington Lad 11 April, 2019 12:02
It's not just about salaries though is it? You need the supporting infrastructure to ensure the club survives and that doesn't come cheap

Re: Annual accounts.
dick g 25 February, 2020 14:57
As I have said before (And often) ringfencing is part of the solution. Security of Premiership status might encourage investment. The other part is the wage bill. To be frank, many players are getting much more than they deserve. Limit the bill to a percentage of turnover, perhaps with a cap in place.

For me, my club's survival is the important thing. If I don't get to see as many top international players, so be it.

If the pro game is to continue, it needs to get real. And soon. Very soon. Now.

Re: Annual accounts.
Falcona 25 February, 2020 16:19
Just a thought now that the bad apple has been removed from the Premiership, maybe clubs can be more realistic with their plans and like Falcons try to live within smaller budgets? Perhaps clubs trying to chase sarries where living beyond their means

Re: Annual accounts.
Barry555 25 February, 2020 16:37
With us not having sell outs week in week out our turnover will be dwarfed by most clubs.
Luckily enough we have an owner whoís willing to lose money each season in pursuit of sustainability and not to live beyond their means as you say Falcona. Ring fencing would help Falcons out for so many reasons.


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