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RESULT:Doncaster Knights 14 v 43 Newcastle Falcons RFU Championship Cup


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Poor Performance ???
Discussion started by Susiewong , 30 November, 2019 08:59
Poor Performance ???
Susiewong 30 November, 2019 08:59
Last nights game. Despite the weather which was the same for both sides, we struggled to hold onto the game in the first half against a young inexperienced side. Why we have Scott McCleod on the payroll baffles me. Toby Flood has been a good servant but his recent form has dropped.
I hope out of respect to the Player that the management let him down gradually before he becomes the subject of bad criticism. Your views ?

Re: Poor Performance ???
Monkey1 30 November, 2019 09:54
Slow start, no idea what the game plan was for the first half so can't really comment, but they changed it second half and remain unbeaten having added another fifty pointer last night. I really would have to try hard to find anything negative in all of that, and I came away last night having thoroughly enjoyed some brilliant stuff from our lads. Joel's freeze-frame before shipping that pass out to the wing was utterly brilliant & that alone was worth turning up to see.

Re: Poor Performance ???
telfs123 30 November, 2019 10:34
It seems for the past few matches weíve been starting off with last yearís dull lack of tactics, then eventually waking up and starting to play rugby. Sadly that took about 50 minutes to happen. Itís a bit baffling. Joel undoubtedly needs to be the full time starter. And Iíd like to see a bit more experimentation with selection in the last 2 Cup games.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/11/2019 10:36 by telfs123.

Re: Poor Performance ???
GeordieFalcon 30 November, 2019 16:04
Quote:
Monkey1
Slow start, no idea what the game plan was for the first half so can't really comment, but they changed it second half and remain unbeaten having added another fifty pointer last night. I really would have to try hard to find anything negative in all of that, and I came away last night having thoroughly enjoyed some brilliant stuff from our lads. Joel's freeze-frame before shipping that pass out to the wing was utterly brilliant & that alone was worth turning up to see.

Im genuinely stunned.....did you really think they played some "brilliant stuff"?

Re: Poor Performance ???
Monkey1 30 November, 2019 16:38
Yes they did in the last half hour, and they were enjoying it too.

We are all well aware of your miserable take on anything they do, it has been repeated many times, so I wouldn't expect you to ever see it any other way.

We are all entitled to our own views.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Wensleydale Falcon 30 November, 2019 19:03
Very disjointed to start with, although to be expected given all the changes.
Some good rugby in patches against a very tenacious Hartpury side. As already said we become more dominant in the last 20 minutes due to our fitness levels.
10 wins from 10 we canít ask for any better than that....and not hitting our full potential yet I believe.....not a bad place to be in Iíd say!!!

Re: Poor Performance ???
dick g 30 November, 2019 20:18
Quote:
Wensleydale Falcon
Very disjointed to start with, although to be expected given all the changes.
Some good rugby in patches against a very tenacious Hartpury side. As already said we become more dominant in the last 20 minutes due to our fitness levels.
10 wins from 10 we canít ask for any better than that....and not hitting our full potential yet I believe.....not a bad place to be in Iíd say!!!

What a relief to find I am not a lone voice of positivity. We are good and getting better.

Re: Poor Performance ???
matt1il 30 November, 2019 21:58
Quote:
telfs123
It seems for the past few matches weíve been starting off with last yearís dull lack of tactics, then eventually waking up and starting to play rugby. Sadly that took about 50 minutes to happen. Itís a bit baffling. Joel undoubtedly needs to be the full time starter. And Iíd like to see a bit more experimentation with selection in the last 2 Cup games.

Now we're all but guaranteed through I'd hope for a fully experimental side in the next match (with Hodge at FB?) and then hope for a first team run out to warm up to the Ealing match. I was surprised this match wasn't as experimental, 8/12 teams going through allows for some risks.

Re: Poor Performance ???
GeordieFalcon 30 November, 2019 22:15
Quote:
Monkey1
Yes they did in the last half hour, and they were enjoying it too.
We are all well aware of your miserable take on anything they do, it has been repeated many times, so I wouldn't expect you to ever see it any other way.

We are all entitled to our own views.


grinning smiley what a laugh ...its called being realistic. And clearly im not the only one, as every game so far the fellow fans stood around me all think the same....

Ps Im the first to praise them when they deserve it and play good rugby...its just been lacking for way too long...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/11/2019 22:16 by GeordieFalcon.

Re: Poor Performance ???
skip mcskipper 30 November, 2019 22:26
I'm still struggling to understand how Dean Richards is still here. He came with a plan, everyone bought into it and it failed. That's just my opinion and if anyone can change my mind please do so.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rogerandout 01 December, 2019 00:02
It is a bit tricky to determine whether we are making progress or not. You cannot argue with the results. They are what matters.
Equally you have to think that we are highly likely to be promoted and failure to do so would be a massive underachievement. So we must try to work on an aggressive defence and an attack more akin to what Northampton have been able to achieve than we have.
I really think that some of our more senior players arenít up to the job going forward and we need to invest time and experience in the younger more athletic players.
I am naturally delighted with the results but really concerned that we are not preparing for next year.
The starting backs in the cup the other night were 28, 34, 31, 29,31,31,26. I just donít get that!

Re: Poor Performance ???
Wensleydale Falcon 01 December, 2019 00:22
Dean Richards came with a five year plan and two seasons ago we finished fourth and last season we beat Toulon away and beat Montpellier at home in the champions cup with a budget nowhere near our rivals.
That, in my opinion is one massive achievement. Our budget was then reduced by 20% and we were relegated.
I really fail to understand what some of our supporters expect.
The persistent criticism and whinging from some of our posters is extremely tedious and in my opinion unwarranted.
However, itís all about opinions I guess and we all have differing ones.
Iím more than comfortable in where we are at present given our resources and long term plan.

Re: Poor Performance ???
AJfalc 01 December, 2019 07:44
I think that the criticism of our performances is because in most games we have only been scoring points due to our greater fitness when the opposition tires - this won't be the case next season if we get promoted
The supporters want to see some signs of progress and that we are actually working on something in training, not just laterally across the pitch which is so easy to defend against.

Re: Poor Performance ???
skip mcskipper 01 December, 2019 08:04
Wensleydale falcon I agree with what you said and I genuinely want Dean Richards to succeed however negative my last comment might have sounded. But when DR ran through his "five year plan" at the fans talk in years ago he also said that we would be an established top 6 premiership club competing for silverware. The Falcons relegation from the premiership IMO has put us back 2 years at least, look at the quality of players we have lost and look at the world class signings all the other premiership clubs have made/making.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rafpilot2000 01 December, 2019 08:50
I think maybe we should look at this another way a be grateful that Deano has stuck with us through the rough and smooth. Hehasnít stepped away from the challenge of battling to get back into the premiership following relegation. Im sure given the coming and goings of Premiership DoR he would have had opportunities.
5 year plan?We made it into the top 4 and play offs, and got Champions rugby at Kingston park. We saw great attacking performances but sadly that came at a financial cost that our club simply could not sustain.
We were relegated from a league where it has become apparent that the level playing field is about as level as Bedfordís pitch.
We beat a team that has some good talent in it 50-10 and complain and sit robustly at the top of the table unbeaten yet we give the players and coaching staff a kicking?
Yes performances are down on previous years but the standard of your opposition often impacts your own performance. You can only play and beat whatís in front of you!
Toby gets a kicking on a regular basis but sadly a lot of that is him being a victim of his own previous success.No he isnít kicking as well as he used to and yes he makes errors, but would most of the championship clubs jump at the chance of having him on their team sheet? Of course! The lad is in his twighlight years but loves the club and puts his body on the line. Respect to him.
We are top of the league, letís stop giving the lads a kicking this festive season and enjoy watching the team win games again.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 01 December, 2019 09:30
As Iíve said before when copping flak for my opinion, please remember it is a forum and it would be really boring if we all said we are rubbish just as it would be really boring if we all said we were great. Letís try and avoid unpleasantness eh?

For one thing we should count our blessings that we play in a league system where every game counts, I would sooner that than follow someone in the Pro 14 where you can afford to throw a game to concentrate on another competition. (A la Munster on Friday)

Re: Poor Performance ???
AJfalc 01 December, 2019 09:38
People keep pushing the "4th in the table" is like a Sunderland fan saying "we won the FA cup in 1973" while heading for Division 2.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rafpilot2000 01 December, 2019 10:39
Certainly nothing unpleasant written, intended not inferred , especially during this festive season. Merely a different option to yours. Also positivity to counter the negativity given that we have just beaten a good team 50-10 and sit top of the league.
Merry Christmas

Re: Poor Performance ???
Daveyb 01 December, 2019 11:22
The only important thing this season, is to gain automatic promotion. Without it, next season is not an issue

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 01 December, 2019 11:26
Sorry RAFPilot, my post wasnít intended to be aimed at you, I was referring to previous previous posts. Appreciate the good wishes for the Festive Season however! (Which obviously is reciprocated)

Re: Poor Performance ???
trummy200 01 December, 2019 11:31
It WAS a great achievement to finish 4th though (especially when comparing the strength of the squad then with its peers)

Re: Poor Performance ???
telfs123 01 December, 2019 12:06
I think peopleís frustration is understandable. Yes, promotion is the priority. But the gulf between Prem and Champ is so big that if we see ourselves as a Prem team, then we should be able to get promoted comfortably (which we are).

We got relegated last season due to a combination of poor tactics, poor selection and some bad injury luck. 2 of those are fixable, and that is what many on here hoped to see change. Whilst angry we got relegated, many sucked it up and said ďok, itís a chance to develop a more sustainable, attacking game plan featuring some of our younger playersĒ.

So far, that has not happened. Games have either been won by superior fitness and power in the last 30 mins, or scrapped out in poor conditions. There is zero evidence of an improved style of play. Older, proven average players continue to be selected in front of younger players. There is no evidence Deano plans to do anything apart from bludgeon his way through the Championship and then approach next season the same way we did the year we were relegated.

There is no evidence our coaching staff can develop a game plan, no evidence they can bring the best out of young players. Northampton have shown that young talented players can thrive when given a chance. We do not have much money. So we HAVE to rely on the academy.

One thing has stuck out to me so far this season: the complete lack of pace at which we do anything. We select a team of mostly slow players (Young, Flood, Matavesi, Arscott, Tait for example. All are players who are average or below average in pace compared to Premiership players. Only Matavesi has the skills appropriate to make up for that). Adam Radwan is our fastest player, yet everything inside him happens at such a slow pace, he rarely gets the space to show his ability. Our skills remain below the acceptable standard, meaning we canít execute a fast game plan.

Everyoneís worst nightmare (except not being promoted) was to come up playing exactly how we did when we got relegated, with players like Cam N-K, Stevenson, Haydon-Wood, Passman, Stevenson, Wacokecoke, Hodge, Farrar, Montgomery not being in contention for starting spots having not played sufficient game time. This is exactly what we are on track to do.

Yes, I completely agree you canít play all of them at the same time, youíre just asking for something to go wrong. But Stevenson starting playing well at centre, now appears to be a replacement wing. Wacokecoke also started at centre, now rarely seen. Cam N-K has about 20 total minutes off the bench, and is behind both Stuart and Young (players who are definitively not the future at that position), Hodge (injured yes, but does anyone have any faith he will play once fit?), Passman, Farrar, Montgomery have either not featured or have barely featured. Hodgson is stuck behind Flood and Haydon-Wood is never seen.

Thatís a long rant, and people will disagree with aspects of it, and thatís fair. But Iíll summarise with this:

What have we shown this season that gives us hope that upon returning to the Premiership we will be competitive, entertaining and ultimately succeed in staying up and establishing ourself in the Premiership again?

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 01 December, 2019 12:09
The problem Trummy is you need to back this up by building on it and we didnít, just like there is no point in beating Toulon and Monty if you then proceed to get stuffed by Edinburgh.

You could argue finishing 4th ultimately did us no favours and another consolidation season in the top 6 or 7 would have been more beneficial but really itís ifs and buts in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Andy Mac 01 December, 2019 13:58
Telfs, I agree with your post.

Iím not seeing anything to suggest we will perform better next season. Thereís plenty of time left for performances to improve but thatís based on blind optimism rather than anything indicating they will improve.

I fear that Richards isnít the man to take us forward. There doesnít appear to be enough in the way of adapting our tactics to the pitch/weather/opposition to give me any faith.

The supporters are left on the outside looking in, no updates on injuries, no insights into selections, the usual rubbish spouted in post match interviews. Itís laughable that the club say giving injury updates would give the opposition an advantage. They donít need that advantage to relegate us twice in recent memory!

Itís hard to put my finger on it, but it feels like weíre becoming an old fashioned club that will be left behind by the more forward thinking teams.

Re: Poor Performance ???
DJMc 01 December, 2019 14:17
Well I am voting with my feet for the game against Jersey Reds. I am due to work 4.00pm to 00.00 on the day and with a 2.00pm kick off and my leave calculated in hours I could easily apply for two hours leave and attend the match but have decided to save my my time.

Re: Poor Performance ???
The Bobster 01 December, 2019 15:23
I can see why people are disappointed, yes the performance the other night was well below par, however the game before that was much better, we played very well against Coventry and the team worked hard to get that result.

Listening to Tom Arscott the other night the team are where they want to be being top of the Championship & the Championship cup pool. But they are disappointed as the aim was to be a Premiership team playing in the Championship which they felt would be a bonus point win every match.

As previously mentioned Toby Flood has been a good servant but I feel now is the time for Joel Hodgson to play instead. Iíve been impressed by him the last two games.

Anyways, we are still unbeaten this season so something must be going right!

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rafpilot2000 01 December, 2019 16:05
AJ , never any offence taken , especially from the fine gentlemen of this forum. I clearly misread so my fault, all good.
I think we all hope to see free flowing attacking and attractive rugby. But ultimately we have to accept that there is only one aim this season and that is to secure promotion. Equally achieving this in the most cost effective manner must also be a priority. Iím guessing that equation means work man like but effective play this season.
Tickets arenít cheap and at this time of the year the pennies can always be spent elsewhere , though presumably itís the close competitive scraps where the fan support is most needed .

Re: Poor Performance ???
matt1il 01 December, 2019 17:55
Also if reports of a B&I league are to be believed then it won't be the top 12/13 English teams in the league it'll be 4/6 instead, and we're a million miles from that.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rogerandout 01 December, 2019 18:03
I agree with the sentiments expressed by telfs123.

Northampton have shown what can be achieved when younger more athletic backs are given an opportunity. This year I think our leading try-scorers and fastest players are Radwan and Stevenson. One is a centre and one is a wing.
Get them both on the pitch at the same time repeatedly with experience around them.
Passman too has delivered at the level he has played at.
He has got to be given a go in the cup.
I do think it is harder for young forwards, hence my picking on the young backs to be given a go.
It really isnít negative to think we must plan for the future, quite the opposite.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Running Rugby 01 December, 2019 19:55
At the moment, I am happy to see the club winning, and some of the young players getting a chance that they wouldn't have gotten last season, when we were involved in a relegation battle.

Yes, we would all like to see more of the clubs young players involved, but those that have played so far, have shown up really well, and I believe that as the season goes on, we will get to see more of them.

The style of play has always been a contentious issue, and hopefully the coaches are working on it, only time will tell.

Whether the future lies under the stewardship of Dean Richards and his coaches, remains to be seen, and is one for the future, and will be addressed if needs be, but at the moment, I am happy to be watching a winning side, with some development of some of the clubs young players, with, hopefully more to come.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2019 20:04 by Running Rugby.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 01 December, 2019 21:43
Quote:
matt1il
Also if reports of a B&I league are to be believed then it won't be the top 12/13 English teams in the league it'll be 4/6 instead, and we're a million miles from that.

Hopefully the reports arenít to be believed Matt, thoughts of a B&I League fill me with more dread than ring-fencing.

Re: Poor Performance ???
CharlieDog 01 December, 2019 22:04
We could put together a 'young' backline of:

9 Nordli-Kelemeti
10 Haydon Wood
11 Passman
12 Wacokecoke
13 Stevenson
14 Radwan
15 Hodge

and still miss out several good youngsters. And then who do you suggest we miss out to allow some experience. The answer is rotation - but not every game, players need to play in blocks - and then there is injuries to deal with.

I remember years ago watching Matt Burke coaching a young Tim Visser about positioning etc during the game - the only way that happens is to have some experience - personally it wouldn't be Flood BUT it does need to be down the 10, 12, 15 axis

Look also at the backrow - concern over whether Gary Graham will stay next season. Once back in the premiership our first choice back row might be:

6 Wilson
7 Welch
8 Van de Walt

so who is on the bench: Graham, Hardie, Nagusa, Chick, Uzokwe and about 6 back row forwards in the Senior Academy squad.

We have a big squad but we've seen the impact of injuries on the front row last year.

It's easy for keyboard warriors to pick a side every week with no risk of being wrong - but in the real world, if we fail to get promotion it could be the end of the club as we know it. As far as I know, none of us have as much invested as Semore.

Out of interest, it would be interesting for everyone to name their 'ideal' side - taking into account a blend of experience and youth and justifying who should be let out. I suspect as the season goes on and IF we remain clear at the top then we might be in the position to take a few more risks..... once promotion is more or less assured.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 01 December, 2019 22:42
Agree with a lot you say Charlie but, for example, yesterdayís starting back line in a reasonably meaningless cup game (meaningless in that promotion is the obvious goal) contained non of the players you mention, not withstanding Hodge who is injured. Missed opportunity perhaps?

Re: Poor Performance ???
alas 02 December, 2019 00:03
The Falcons have plenty of good back row players, but Graham is currently the best of them and would be missed.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Bedlington Lad 02 December, 2019 08:08
Couldn't make the game on Friday but the point about Northants and young players struck a chord. I watched them on Saturday and the pace they played at and attacking patterns were really good. I hope Dave Walder has a look at them and follows their style. Whatever happens it will be entertaining.

I accept we need a blend of players, but if they are fit, and especially in cup games, I'd turn all the youngsters loose and see what happens.

Re: Poor Performance ???
AJfalc 02 December, 2019 08:41
The season we finished 4th was great and I thoroughly enjoyed it but sitting watching last season's abject performances - it was just history (OK recent history) the games when things aren't going well, the "water boys" wired up with their earpieces run on at regular intervals, I take it that the message was just carry on doing what you are doing?
Trying something different never seemed to be an option?

Re: Poor Performance ???
Monkey1 03 December, 2019 09:38
I am genuinely heartened by the number of people who have made positive comments above. There are a few who seem determined to kick our lads while they are down, and I fear they will never change, but many are still prepared to look for the positives and support the team. It is easy to mock and say a good premiership team would beat us, but that is just stupid talk. We are not a premiership team, have lost key players (Mark Wilson alone is a big miss) and we are in limbo between being a premiership & championship team, neither one nor the other at the moment. I am prepared to accept that, and I look forward to a season that builds the club back up again after an awful season where nothing seemed to go our way. In the summer we can start thinking about preparing to compete in the higher league, hopefully with the squad strengthened in preparation, but for now we have to be realistic about where we are and what we are.

I always admire Dick for his ability to see his glass half full, well allow me to top it up for you a little good sir.
(Sm42)

Re: Poor Performance ???
steve1888 03 December, 2019 10:35
If you look at what Irish spent going up and what others are spending can we compete? Or are we actually stuck in between now.

Can't really complain about this season, won every game and only a couple in very poor conditions have been close.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 03 December, 2019 10:57
We certainly can't compete with the likes of Irish and if their chosen path is having a matchday squad of only 6 English players I really hope we don't follow them.

What we can do is make up for the lack of budget in other ways like making sure out fitness levels are top notch and working on skill levels. If you can do that you have a chance.

For us I think the best route is a load of exciting youngsters sprinkled with some good experienced players. We seem to have a great batch of young players, if they can be as readied as they can be for Premiership rugby this season then again, we have a chance. Won't be easy however.

Re: Poor Performance ???
pityacker 03 December, 2019 13:21
I think most fans would love to see lots of youngsters brought through from the academy especially in this transition (hopefully) period however it has to be done in a controlled manner but looking at the starting 15 from our last game which was a cup game not a crucial league fixtue we had one youngster Jamie Blamire , there was 8 players 30 or over and the average age 29.4 , it was obvious that men returning from injury or world cup required game time but it would have been nice and an opportunity to blood another couple of youngsters other than the 3 that were given a short run out from the bench. Just my thoughts perhaps Im asking too much.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Rafpilot2000 03 December, 2019 18:09
Iím
Guessing itís a balancing act as developing new talent must be the most cost effective means of developing a strong squad. But equally holding onto them after the investment when large salaryís are offered must be difficult.
It must be a tough call when selecting teams this year with the choice of sticking with the tried and tested old guard of going with fresh legs and seeing what they can do. Iím hoping that we can put enough daylight between us and the chasing teams to allow us to give the youngsters a run towards the end of the season .
In recent years we have fielded some good players but in their twighlight years with a higher risk of injury . So maybe bringing on the youngster could bear fruit.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 03 December, 2019 19:09
I hope we donít only bring the youngsters through when we are guaranteed promotion (which in all fairness we more or less were before a ball was kicked) as we kind of want them a little battle hardened and used to match day pressure. Plus psychologically they are being told they arenít to be trusted when it matters if they only play after promotion I say clinched.

Re: Poor Performance ???
steve1888 03 December, 2019 20:32
I was disappointed at the age of some of the signings and hoped this season we'd use the younger players more to get us up and let them develop, players need competitve rugby to do so.

It's certainly a tough one.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Exiled Falcon 03 December, 2019 21:05
I guess as a DOR youíre damned if you do and damned if you donít sometimes.

Re: Poor Performance ???
GeordieFalcon 04 December, 2019 16:30
Well said Telfs...you've said what i wanted to in a far better and more eloquent way.

PS, Ill try to stop being so negative / realistic for the moment and see how we go. Lets hope we try to put a little more pace in to the games and have support players running better lines / angles into our game over the next few months.

COYF

Re: Poor Performance ???
Pool_falcon 04 December, 2019 17:10
Genuinely worried about the direction of the club and until the management/coaching staff are changed I can't see how things will improve.

We have pretty much the same squad we went down with, arguably better. We have easily the best squad in the Championship but don't look like we've figured out a game plan or improved in the slightest.

Recruitment at best as been odd, with a number of old/journeyman brought in. I'm just a little bewildered currently and losing interest.

Some of you won't like this but I don't give a hoot, I'm a fan and I'm worried. I do not think Richards is showing his worth for his considerable salary.

We will walk the league this season as it's pretty dire. We will then get hammered in the Prem with the current set-up.

Time for change...a season too late.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Bedlington Lad 05 December, 2019 08:07
Pool falcon - who would you exchange Deano for and what players?

Re: Poor Performance ???
Monkey1 05 December, 2019 09:02
Quote:
Bedlington Lad
Pool falcon - who would you exchange Deano for and what players?

I would also be interested to hear this, and also, what sort of budget do you think we would need to achieve your ambitions?

Re: Poor Performance ???
GeordieFalcon 05 December, 2019 16:08
Monkey,

Just out of curiosity...how do you view the current team / squad and the general performances?

What do you see as going well...what do you see as going not so well?

Whats your thoughts for this team should (which we hope does happen) we get promoted.

Re: Poor Performance ???
Monkey1 06 December, 2019 07:31
The current squad relies too much on players at the end of their careers, maybe not as fast as they were, and are prone to injury more than they used to be. We also seem to be hopelessly slow at bringing our youngsters through the Academy & into the 1st team.

Going well this season is winning, that is all. We are (in theory) too strong a team for the opposition to handle, and they go nuts when playing against us, so unless you are some sort of analytical rugby expert it is pretty much impossible to make too much sense of it all.

If we get promoted we are not going to be in a good place unless we can address some of the issues mentioned above regarding our squad, so once again we will have to wing it & pray, but we have many years of experience in watching that & alcohol probably helps.

Brief answers to your questions while munching breakfast GF but hopefully it will give you the picture.

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