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3rd April 2020

RFU Confirmed Newcastle Falconsí promotion to the Gallagher Premiership for the 2020-21 season


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Murrayfield Morons
Discussion started by dick g , 08 February, 2020 17:19
Murrayfield Morons
dick g 08 February, 2020 17:19
Watching Calcutta Cup. Once again, the home fans are giving a splendid lesson in unsportsmanship.Wretched bunch.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
trummy200 08 February, 2020 18:39
Have to agree Dick - seems its the sign of the times. Did think the commentary team did a decent job, pretty fair handed. Pretty foul conditions all round

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Daveyb 08 February, 2020 19:38
I thought the ref was way out of his depth. Inconsistent in everything he did. He pinged Englands line out consistently for not throwing in straight, even when Scotland were barely contesting, then they had a line out on about half way, the ball bent its way down the line out finishing well outside, Ford knocked it back, May kicked into touch and the Scots gained 25 yards.
I appreciate it was difficult for all, and also that I am probably not up to speed with the law, but when Hogg appeared to drop the ball on the line, then grounded it with his stomach.....I thought it had to be grounded whilst under control with downward pressure applied between the elbow and finger tips.....someone put me out of my misery and tell me that went out of fashion years ago!

Re: Murrayfield Morons
ed.up.north 08 February, 2020 20:22
Quote:
Daveyb
I thought the ref was way out of his depth. Inconsistent in everything he did. He pinged Englands line out consistently for not throwing in straight, even when Scotland were barely contesting, then they had a line out on about half way, the ball bent its way down the line out finishing well outside, Ford knocked it back, May kicked into touch and the Scots gained 25 yards.
I appreciate it was difficult for all, and also that I am probably not up to speed with the law, but when Hogg appeared to drop the ball on the line, then grounded it with his stomach.....I thought it had to be grounded whilst under control with downward pressure applied between the elbow and finger tips.....someone put me out of my misery and tell me that went out of fashion years ago!

These days itís the hand, arm or the front of a playerís body from waist to neck. ďDownward pressureĒ isnít in the law book any more. I thought Hogg was very lucky.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 08 February, 2020 21:15
Quote:
dick g
Watching Calcutta Cup. Once again, the home fans are giving a splendid lesson in unsportsmanship.Wretched bunch.

Moronic behaviour and probably not helped by comments from the incredibly slow and idiotic Sam Johnson. Sadly a huge chip on shoulder demonstrated by some of our Scottish friends, very disappointing.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 08 February, 2020 21:36
Hope the guy who threw the beer bottle is proud of himsel too.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Rafpilot2000 08 February, 2020 22:47
I know we need to be diplomatic and we were playing in someone elseís stadium but it was just ignorant. I get weary of the Scottish attitude towards England . We are competitive against Wales, a proud nation with great heritage but who have welcoming fans and respect the kicker. Therefore there is no excuse but ignorance or arrogance and Iím not sure which is the lesser evil. Just a bit sad really. And it didnít work as we won !!;-)

Re: Murrayfield Morons
dick g 09 February, 2020 09:22
Sadly, there are some Scots who thrive on the sense of being underdogs oppressed by England which took over their country. This displays a profound
Ignorance of their own history.

The merger of the crowns of England and Scotland was instituted by King James 6 of Scotland when he also ascended to the English throne as King James 1. He came up with the title of United Kingdom and also the design of the Union Flag. So it was really Scotland absorbing England.

The Act of Union which merged the countries politically and made London its capital came about as the price Scotland paid for England giving the Scots a large amount of dosh to cover huge losses Edinburgh had incurred in its ill-judged attempt to create a colony in the Darien Peninsular in Central America. This had effectively bankrupted Scotland.

Still, the advantage of this ignorance is to fire up England's players.

I should add that I have spent some of my happiest times climbing in Scotland and still visit it regularly.

Sorry if I have been boring and strayed too far from rugby.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Falcona 09 February, 2020 10:03
Dickg No I found that really informative and I was ignorant of this history also. In fact, I am not good at history.

Dick. You would love [www.quora.com]. it will no doubt drive you mad at times. And you must abide by their rules. But you find fascinating information from people.

Would you mind if I kept this information or where I could source the information from? Thanking you

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Monkey1 09 February, 2020 10:05
If you want to know the root-cause of this hatred of the English by some Scottish & Irish people, I can provide a very good demonstration of why it festers on from one century to the next:

We have just completed a job for a park in Northern Ireland, a series of signs that recount their twisted version of a story of how on that site, the virtually unarmed Irish heroes took on the nasty English, better trained, and better armed. It is there to brainwash children, so that like their parents they will hate the English, and keep this battle raging for ever. There will be no end. They have kept this up for over 350 years & are just getting into their stride.

The same happens in Scotland, and you will find that those affected by this @#$%& hatred will carry it on to their children, and their grandchildren, and you will be able to trace it back to their ancestors over hundreds of years.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Monkey1 09 February, 2020 10:08
If you want to know what the swearing filter kicked out, it was i.n.b.r.e.d

Why is that an unacceptable word?
(Sm105)

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 09 February, 2020 10:29
It is very sad tbh. I get the beating the big neighbour bit but not to the point of hatred and bigotry. I've lived in Scotland over 30 years and do still get taken aback at the obsession with beating England. I don't think it's helped by Nasty Nicola and her mates who basically seem to think being better than England is their sole aim, I've even seen it written in NHS circulars how 'this is better than in England'.

As for yesterday I'm not sure I've seen players getting the finger or Gareth Hunt gestures at a rugby match before but hey ho.

As for today, I am attending the Scotland v England ladies match where I will cheer on England and my Scottish daughter will cheer on Scotland, we will laugh, shiver and have a drink after, and that's what it should be about.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 09 February, 2020 10:32
No I won't, the match is off!

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Rafpilot2000 09 February, 2020 11:57
Dg, thank you for the history , I knew parts of that but it was a nice read. I do think itís great to have the rivalry , just a pity it canít be a respected rivalry wrt the game.
Anyway their stadium , their rules . All good

Re: Murrayfield Morons
SimonG19 09 February, 2020 11:58
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
Quote:
dick g
Watching Calcutta Cup. Once again, the home fans are giving a splendid lesson in unsportsmanship.Wretched bunch.

Moronic behaviour and probably not helped by comments from the incredibly slow and idiotic Sam Johnson. Sadly a huge chip on shoulder demonstrated by some of our Scottish friends, very disappointing.

For balance don't forget the moronic comments from Lewis Ludlam as well.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 09 February, 2020 12:29
Wholeheartedly agree Simon, but the English guys put up with this every year. Problem is if England had lost Ludlam looks stupid, as it is Sam Johnson looks stupid. Both of them and anyone else who pedals this crud needs their heads knocking together and reminded it's a game of rugby, nothing more.

Doesn't excuse the behaviour of the Murrayfield crowd however.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
SimonG19 09 February, 2020 13:48
Again for balance (not that I am Scottish!) a small minority in the Murrayfield crowd.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 09 February, 2020 14:04
The booing of Faz was far from a small minority Simon. Granted the hand gestures were a small minority but a disappointing development none the less.

Unfortunately the 6N attracts a load of people who for a few weeks take a break from football and bring their moronic football behaviour with them. (And yes, I am a football fan too)

Re: Murrayfield Morons
aidanb 09 February, 2020 14:08
Quote:
SimonG19
Again for balance (not that I am Scottish!) a small minority in the Murrayfield crowd.

We arenít the bbc and donít need a for balance argument

It doesnít matter that it was a small minority.

1 person doing it is bad enough.

1 person from either nation doing it is not needed.
Eddie Jones got a hard time of the Scots a couple of years back and now this.

Thereís no need and the SRU and itís players need to be making strong statements about the values of the game and how we are there to enjoy the fierce competition but never to let it spill to anger and even hatred.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Northumbrian 09 February, 2020 17:12
Some of them will be narked because England took them out of the EU against their will. But there's always an excuse...

Re: Murrayfield Morons
SimonG19 09 February, 2020 19:55
Quote:
aidanb
Quote:
SimonG19
Again for balance (not that I am Scottish!) a small minority in the Murrayfield crowd.

We arenít the bbc and donít need a for balance argument

It doesnít matter that it was a small minority.

1 person doing it is bad enough.

1 person from either nation doing it is not needed.
Eddie Jones got a hard time of the Scots a couple of years back and now this.

Thereís no need and the SRU and itís players need to be making strong statements about the values of the game and how we are there to enjoy the fierce competition but never to let it spill to anger and even hatred.

I totally agree that one person misbehaving is bad enough. But that means behaviour is below standard at just about every international, professional and semi-pro game in the UK.

Taring everyone in the crowd with the same brush is silly in my opinion which is why I made the point which EF seems to agree with.

I'd love the SRU to make the points you suggest. And I love the RFU to make the same points to Ludlam.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
aidanb 09 February, 2020 20:38
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
aidanb
Quote:
SimonG19
Again for balance (not that I am Scottish!) a small minority in the Murrayfield crowd.

We arenít the bbc and donít need a for balance argument

It doesnít matter that it was a small minority.

1 person doing it is bad enough.

1 person from either nation doing it is not needed.
Eddie Jones got a hard time of the Scots a couple of years back and now this.

Thereís no need and the SRU and itís players need to be making strong statements about the values of the game and how we are there to enjoy the fierce competition but never to let it spill to anger and even hatred.

I totally agree that one person misbehaving is bad enough. But that means behaviour is below standard at just about every international, professional and semi-pro game in the UK.

Taring everyone in the crowd with the same brush is silly in my opinion which is why I made the point which EF seems to agree with.

I'd love the SRU to make the points you suggest. And I love the RFU to make the same points to Ludlam.

Well the SRU will need to have that chat with some of their guys as well.

I donít agree that is needed though.

The players on both sides didnít stoke up the nasty behaviour seen at Murrayfield yesterday.

Iím not going to agree with you on this notion that every game across the land is the same as yesterdayís game.

At the Falcons some people talk during a kick but Iíve not heard booing

This isnít a time for claiming that itís okay cos the behaviour is all around.

The SRU need to be strong and make it clear that entry to Murrayfield is reliant on respect being shown to the kickers and anti social behaviour being left at the door no matter what.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Rafpilot2000 09 February, 2020 21:29
I donít think any of us are in anyway anti Scottish. Wasnít our sevens team a few years back the Scottish National side. I think the issue we have is the increase in disrespect to kickers etc creeping in and a desire for a reasonable level of decency that doesnít involve chucking bottles at people at sporting events .

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 10 February, 2020 06:30
itís not even a case of being anti Scotttish, itís really just a case of calling out moronic behaviour that seems to be reserved for contests against England. Beating England shouldnít border on the obsessive either.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 10 February, 2020 08:12
I was at the game on Saturday and Farrell took forever to take kicks. Booing aside, they need to look at the time given to kickers.

About the disrepect England didn't help themselves because as soon as they had been presented to Princess Anne and whilst she was being presented to the Scottish team, England broke the line up they'd been in and started jogging in circles & running on the spot. Poor behaviour- it only took a minute for the presentations to complete but England were too rude to stand still that long.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 10 February, 2020 08:44
Sorry BL they are no justifications at all. Faz took no longer than anyone else and there's an allotted time past which you can't go anyway, that's just a convenient excuse. Can't comment on the breaking the line bit because I didn't notice anything that hasn't happened in other international games.

If you think these justify the behaviour of a very boorish Scottish crowd that's pretty lame, sorry.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 10 February, 2020 08:59
I'm not trying to justify it just putting context round it. Personally I think this respect the kicker silence is a load of rubbish anyway, it's a sporting event not a book session in a library.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 10 February, 2020 09:07
I agree, but it just looks bad when your respect for the kicker depends on which country they represent. I would have thought being booed would make you more determined to be honest, plus as the post match panel said, eerie silence is probably more off putting.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 10 February, 2020 09:46
I kind of got the impression from being in the stadium that they were booing Farrell the person not Farrell the English player if that makes sense? I didn't get the same sense of hostility to other players.

My partner and I were sat next to Curry, Genge and another England player I couldn't see because we had our backs to one another in a coffee shop at Waverley Station Saturday lunchtime.. No-one bothered them and they posed for a picture with a young lad. When we finished our coffee and got up we wished them good luck for the afternoon. They politely said thanks and carried on undisturbed.

We are now claiming full credit for the win!

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 10 February, 2020 09:59
That's a really nice story actually, you don't really imagine them wandering around like that before a big game. Anyway, try and seek them out before the next three games then you can claim even more credit!

As for Faz, you may be right, sadly for him he is a bit of a pantomime villain for opposition supporters. Hopefully what Nigel Owens said over the weekend about him will put him in a slightly fairer light.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
dick g 10 February, 2020 10:09
One final point as pointed out in the Observer. The Murrayfield Morons not only booed the kicker, but also booed the announcement telling them to respect him. That about says it all.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
SimonG19 10 February, 2020 14:05
Quote:
aidanb
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
aidanb
Quote:
SimonG19
Again for balance (not that I am Scottish!) a small minority in the Murrayfield crowd.

We arenít the bbc and donít need a for balance argument

It doesnít matter that it was a small minority.

1 person doing it is bad enough.

1 person from either nation doing it is not needed.
Eddie Jones got a hard time of the Scots a couple of years back and now this.

Thereís no need and the SRU and itís players need to be making strong statements about the values of the game and how we are there to enjoy the fierce competition but never to let it spill to anger and even hatred.

I totally agree that one person misbehaving is bad enough. But that means behaviour is below standard at just about every international, professional and semi-pro game in the UK.

Taring everyone in the crowd with the same brush is silly in my opinion which is why I made the point which EF seems to agree with.

I'd love the SRU to make the points you suggest. And I love the RFU to make the same points to Ludlam.

Well the SRU will need to have that chat with some of their guys as well.

I donít agree that is needed though.

The players on both sides didnít stoke up the nasty behaviour seen at Murrayfield yesterday.

Iím not going to agree with you on this notion that every game across the land is the same as yesterdayís game.

At the Falcons some people talk during a kick but Iíve not heard booing

This isnít a time for claiming that itís okay cos the behaviour is all around.

The SRU need to be strong and make it clear that entry to Murrayfield is reliant on respect being shown to the kickers and anti social behaviour being left at the door no matter what.

I would agree that anti-social behaviour before and during the game from players and supporters on both sides should be clamped down on.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
dick g 10 February, 2020 19:34
If they find whoever allegedly threw a plastic beer bottle at a member of the England staff deserves severe punishment. What kind of people drink beer from a plastic bottle?

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Leipziger 11 February, 2020 08:58
Quote:
dick g
If they find whoever allegedly threw a plastic beer bottle at a member of the England staff deserves severe punishment. What kind of people drink beer from a plastic bottle?

Haha very good. Mind having once been in a train station in east Germany crowded with football fans, as a couple of glass beer bottles went flying overhead, I understand why they only allow plastic in the stadium.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 11 February, 2020 09:34
It was a gale force 8 or something and empty plastic beer bottles & rubbish were flying all over the place. I'm pretty sure it was a stray bottle.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 11 February, 2020 09:51
There were certainly plenty of stray kicks!!

Re: Murrayfield Morons
dick g 11 February, 2020 13:50
Quote:
Leipziger
Quote:
dick g
If they find whoever allegedly threw a plastic beer bottle at a member of the England staff deserves severe punishment. What kind of people drink beer from a plastic bottle?

Haha very good. Mind having once been in a train station in east Germany crowded with football fans, as a couple of glass beer bottles went flying overhead, I understand why they only allow plastic in the stadium.

I had forgotten the safety dimension of plastic bottles. It's the same at KP with the introduction of plastic pints. I have resisted them.

Many, many years ago I was in a Lakeland pub with a bunch of my climbing mates. One of them ordered a pint. To our surprise and dismay, it was served in a plastic mug.

Davey looked at it, cocked his lips into a sneer, emptied the contents on the floor and we left.

I think we were barred.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
MrDolf 11 February, 2020 23:07
I remember being at a Bath v Falcons game a few years ago at the Rec, and some whelp set off a klaxon horn every time Falcons took a kick. I was appalled that the Bath fans seemed to think it was funny when Iíd have expected a rugby crowd to basically shame them into cessation after the first occurrence.
So regarding disrespecting the kicker, I donít think itís an entirely recent thing and certainly not an exclusively Scottish trait.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
markismith50 11 February, 2020 23:29
In my experience the fans and media are the only ones who get vexed by people booing kicks, the players generally couldnít care less. Some in fact seem to like it.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 12 February, 2020 06:32
The issue isnít really the booing as such (at least to me), it is that booing at Murrayfield is basically reserved for England only.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
gtoughuk 12 February, 2020 10:07
I'd just like to add my thoughts on this.

I'm a Scotland fan but stopped trying to get tickets for this match several years ago because of the atmosphere. It appears to be one of those games which attracts non rugby fans just because of who is playing.

The last time I went was about 8 years ago. Sat behind a group of England "fans" dressed as knights, who had no idea about anything to do with the game. They were constantly swearing and being boorish. A genuine England fan sat a couple of seats along politely asked them to calm things down as there was children around. Their reply was along the lines of "F off, we're on the p**s" The stewards asked them to settle down, which they did for about 2 seconds. I'm not sure what happened to them, but they didn't come back at half time.

Unfortunately this is becoming more common from both sides. Something needs to be done to stop it spreading as children will see it and start copying. I wouldn't be surprised if at lot of the booing on Saturday was youngsters hearing an adult do it and thinking it's ok to do.

I still go to watch Scotland play other teams where I find most of the crowd are genuine rugby fans.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 12 February, 2020 10:29
I don't think there's any doubt the 6N attracts a load of supporters hyped up by Nationalism but wouldn't know club rugby even existed, glory hunters of the extreme kind. I include all countries in this. It's a shame because genuine rugby supporters are in the main a good bunch.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
zackary71 13 February, 2020 10:13
I was at the game, and it was no more or less feisty than the last 3 Calcutta Cup matches I attended in '14,16 and '18. I think part of the issue was Farrell taking the Penalty kicks to the limit. I timed 3 and they were 70,66 and 75 seconds respectively. I saw far worse at Twickenham in 2015 between Scotland and Australia. Now that was unpleasant.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
matt1il 13 February, 2020 10:50
Quote:
zackary71
I was at the game, and it was no more or less feisty than the last 3 Calcutta Cup matches I attended in '14,16 and '18. I think part of the issue was Farrell taking the Penalty kicks to the limit. I timed 3 and they were 70,66 and 75 seconds respectively. I saw far worse at Twickenham in 2015 between Scotland and Australia. Now that was unpleasant.

So why were they booing 1 second into taking the first kick?

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 13 February, 2020 11:09
The booing started because he did seem to take an age with each kick, especially when he missed. We were sitting there in a freezing gale and it truly seemed like an age for each kick. Probably a bit of anti-English sentiment and I did think anti-Farrell to be honest.

I really think as a general point 45 seconds for a kick is more than enough. What with reset scrums taking up so much time the game is slow enough as it is.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Exiled Falcon 13 February, 2020 11:32
If the clock stopped for kicks and even the most moronic fan was made aware of this, then the kick isn't wasting time and the kicker doesn't get abused.

A while ago I raised the issue of Myler at Irish being allowed to use up all 90 seconds until the final whistle. Is there any other sport where a team can score 90 seconds from the final whistle but the opposition don't have any opportunity to try and score themselves. Ridiculous.

That is a good point Matt, and spot on, the booing was way before Faz (allegedly) took an age.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2020 11:36 by Exiled Falcon.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
zackary71 13 February, 2020 16:02
Any number of reasons. Could be:
1) anti-English sentiment
2) Brexit
3) the Glasgow Warriors / Saracens 8th spot Champions Cup qualification ref ineligible player
4) knowledge that a hostile environment worked well 2 years ago

Either way, the history books will show an away win.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
trummy200 13 February, 2020 20:24
Agreed Zac , plus those in the public eye should be more careful with what they utter. E.g E Jones spouting how 'brutal' England where going to be against the French - not good , smacks of arrogance.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
forensicpsych 13 February, 2020 21:10
Sadly, my own experience suggests otherwise - I bought tickets for Scotland v Australia about 2 years ago for myself and my wife. For the entire game we (not personally as we Ďkept our heads downí) experienced non stop abuse directed toward the English - who werenít even playing. We dared not talk above a whisper for fear of retribution. Same on the tram back into Edinburgh. Scots were beaten by the Aussies...who got the abuse -
the English. Never, ever, ever again for us, not just rugby but Scotland generally. Have your referendum and go your own way - if that will take the heat out of the Scots vitriol toward the English then even Iíd vote for it! Itís gone way way beyond the friendly rivalry Iíve actually enjoyed in Cardiff and Ireland.

Re: Murrayfield Morons
Bedlington Lad 14 February, 2020 08:29
We got to Murrayfield & Edinburgh regularly and we've never experienced any anti-English sentiment at all on any trip

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