Latest news:

Welcome to the Newcastle Falcons Fans Forum

This forum is for all Falcons' fans, and is independent of the both the club and the supporters association. If you have something to say about Newcastle Falcons this is the place to say it. However please keep it clean and non abusive, and respect the other users of this board!

While the editors of this site monitor the board, they are not responsible for the content of the postings. Any concerns, complaints etc., should be emailed to Sportnetwork. If you want to spam, please go,elsewhere any spamming will be deleted.

*****

3rd April 2020

RFU Confirmed Newcastle Falcons’ promotion to the Gallagher Premiership for the 2020-21 season


Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
The Salary Cap
Discussion started by Robs , 25 May, 2020 13:45
The Salary Cap
Robs 25 May, 2020 13:45
So what is the sanction for breach of the Cap , a la Saracens, should ring fencing of the Premiership happen?
Or, to put it another way, if ring fencing had been in place for the last couple of years what would have happened to Saracens?- not just next year but subsequently?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/05/2020 07:34 by Robs.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 26 May, 2020 08:21
Ringfencing need not preclude relegation for offenders. A club could be ejected from the Premiership and left to find a league that would accept them. A replacement club could be promoted by invitation from the Championship.

Re: The Salary Cap
DocA27 26 May, 2020 09:59
I'd say permanent exclusion from the league would be the correct punishment for a serious breach (a la Saracens, rather than the occasional admin error). Would properly deter clubs from trying to bend the rules.

Re: The Salary Cap
Leipziger 26 May, 2020 17:04
Blog arguing marquee rule must go and why. Makes a lot of sense I think.

Re: The Salary Cap
Horus 31 May, 2020 15:54
Sunday Telegraph reports Wuss, Falcons, Tigers, Sale, Glos, London Irish pushing for a major reduction of the salary cap from the present limit of£7m. Elsewhere I have seen the suggested lower limit be £5.5m.

Re: The Salary Cap
Monkey1 01 June, 2020 11:37
That looks like a split between those clubs that are ego trips for the rich, and those that would prefer a budget that is more sustainable. For the good of the game I hope sustainability wins, but I don't hold out much hope. Maybe it will take one of the big spending clubs to go spectacularly bust when their backer disappears for whatever reason to knock some sense into those who make these decisions. Imagine Saracens if Wray can't support them anymore, or Bristol without Lansdown. That would be a mess and a half.

Re: The Salary Cap
trummy200 01 June, 2020 12:00
Would have thought Wasps would like a reign back on spend - they are on a knife edge by all accounts. It could happen after this Pandemic sponsorship could be hard to come by for a while.

Re: The Salary Cap
steve1888 01 June, 2020 12:36
Sale and Irish have been big spenders so they would have to decimate their squads surely

Re: The Salary Cap
Exiled Falcon 01 June, 2020 17:07
Bit surprised Irish are included bearing in mind their scattergun recruitment of global superstars at the beginning of this season. Think Sharkies have a relatively small squad so can afford their Safrican contingent relatively easily.

Personally want a cap linked to turnover and an end to the marquee farce. Oh and a limit on debt but I’m not starting that one up again!!

Re: The Salary Cap
Leipziger 01 June, 2020 17:13
Presumably any cut in the salary cap, especially if the eventual goal is a £1.5m reduction, would be phased over several seasons to avoid having to sack a few players straight away.

Re: The Salary Cap
matt1il 01 June, 2020 21:24
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
Personally want a cap linked to turnover and an end to the marquee farce. Oh and a limit on debt but I’m not starting that one up again!!

What you don't want though is something like in football where financial fair play was at least designed (never mind it's never really been enforced) to allow big clubs to spend more if they made more, but then that would mean they could make more and therefore spend more thus widening the gap and never allowing lower clubs to close a gap, even if a new owner had the money. If this was in a ringfenced league you'd very much get into 2 sets of teams in 1 league.

Re: The Salary Cap
matt1il 02 June, 2020 11:00
BBC

Quote:
BBC
Lord Myners made 52 official recommendations as part of his comprehensive report into the cap.
All measures will be applied, including titles being stripped for serious offences and more accountability for clubs, players and agents.

However changing the level of the cap, currently £7m, and scrapping the two marquee player allowances were not part of the official recommendations.

I actually can't believe the measures being proposed weren't implemented when the Cap was originally introduced such as power for the cap manager and transparency, surely if you introduce a rule you need a way to judge it, which they obviously didn't have.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 02 June, 2020 11:05
Myners is the way ahead. Just cap to be sorted now. But PRL appears to be making progress towards a more sustainable future. My optimism may return.

Re: The Salary Cap
Robs 02 June, 2020 13:48
Great that the Myners report is to be implemented in full but disappointing that there is no news on the level of the Cap or Marquee players

Re: The Salary Cap
Osric 02 June, 2020 16:21
TodYs BBC rugby podcast had a great segment on financial sustainability, after the John Barclay stuff.

Re: The Salary Cap
matt1il 02 June, 2020 17:25
Quote:
Horus
Sunday Telegraph reports Wuss, Falcons, Tigers, Sale, Glos, London Irish pushing for a major reduction of the salary cap from the present limit of£7m. Elsewhere I have seen the suggested lower limit be £5.5m.

I can't help but think the loss of Glaws Head Coach and DoR in the close season is down to a reduction in spending also

Re: The Salary Cap
Rafpilot2000 03 June, 2020 13:09
There will always be those who have, and those who have not. We punch above our weight but it would be unfair to expect all other teams with much higher income to reduce their spending to our budgetary constraints.
It would be great to see what could be achieved if we were on an even financial footing as the big boys.

The pro
Horus 05 June, 2020 11:41
Yesterday Premiership Rugby held a virtual meeting to debate and vote on proposals to lower the salary cap & the marquee players system.

According to the Times report, those clubs favouring a salary cap reduction, were looking for a 25% cut - from £7m to approx £5.25m. The proposal is that marquee players would be phased out by the end of the 201-22 season.

Re: The Salary Cap
matt1il 05 June, 2020 12:30
That'll be interesting to see how teams manage that at the top, trying to get ~3-4mil off their books in 2 seasons time.

Re: The pro
Robs 05 June, 2020 21:46
Quote:
Horus
Yesterday Premiership Rugby held a virtual meeting to debate and vote on proposals to lower the salary cap & the marquee players system.
According to the Times report, those clubs favouring a salary cap reduction, were looking for a 25% cut - from £7m to approx £5.25m. The proposal is that marquee players would be phased out by the end of the 201-22 season.

So what was the outcome of the vote(s)?

Re: The Salary Cap
Horus 07 June, 2020 09:24
,It did not get the rquired 10-3majority needed. But according Fissler in today's TRP another salary cap vote will go ahead tomorrow. Fissler also noted that in April the attempt cut the cap to £5.5m. was voted down by Bath, Briss and Exeter. Add on the Likely opposition ofSarries, the prospect for the next vote do not look rosy. However, all 52 points in Myners report have been adopted by the Premiership, including the point that marquee wages should come inside salary cap. So heres hoping sanity prevails.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2020 09:27 by Horus.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 07 June, 2020 09:33
Quote:
Horus
, However, all 52 points in Myners report have been adopted by the Premiership, including the point that marquee wages should come inside salary cap. So heres hoping sanity prevails.

Are you certain? I thought that the ussue of marquee wages like the Cap wasn't in the Myner's terms of reference and requires separate action by PRL.

Re: The Salary Cap
Horus 07 June, 2020 14:53
Dick, all 52 points have been endorsed by Prem including 3.2;3.3; 3.4 - quote: 'All permitted payments to players should be automatically included within the salary cap, except for a few clearly communicated exceptions.'

3.3 'All exceptional items to be pre-approved by the SCM, otherwise they will be automatically treated as salary.' (i.e.) all payments to a player should fall within the salary cap. The level of the cap and the entire marquee system were outside the 52 recommendations, as you correctly say. Hence the seperate debate and vote on them last week and next Monday.

Re: The Salary Cap
Robs 07 June, 2020 18:13
So presumably there was a vote last week on the Marquee situation which was also rejected?

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 07 June, 2020 18:26
Thanks Horus. Putting marquee salaries under the Cap is progress. Even if Cap is not reduced, accomodating marquee dosh will be difficult for some high-spending clubs. I hope that the age of the marquee player might be drawing to a close.

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 08 June, 2020 17:49
voted cap reduced to 6million and keeping marquees

Re: The Salary Cap
alas 08 June, 2020 18:19
Down to 5 million for 2021 2022 according to the Guardian. Marquee players to be discussed further. [www.theguardian.com]

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 08 June, 2020 18:39
6million and keeping marquee according to the rugby papper flash

Re: The Salary Cap
alas 08 June, 2020 19:49
BBC version [www.bbc.co.uk]

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 08 June, 2020 20:11
that seems to be 3 different versions I hope the clubs aren't as confused as the jurnalists

Re: The Salary Cap
markismith50 08 June, 2020 20:17
No, the clubs have the accurate version, which should hopefully be announced tomorrow.

Re: The Salary Cap
matt1il 08 June, 2020 20:35
The BBC seems to be later as it mentions the marquee player rule was agreed.

The interesting thing is this seems to have been done in reaction to COVID-19 (as it nearly reverts back within 4 years) and not the previous years of the game being unsustainable, from what I can see the difference by 24/25 is 1 player's salary coming off the books.

So in summary:
20/21: £7mil + 2 players
21/22: £5.6mil + 2 players
22/23 & 23/24: £5.6mil + 1 player
24/25: £7mil + 1 player

Re: The Salary Cap
Leipziger 08 June, 2020 20:44
Players who signed 2-year contracts with higher-spending clubs last summer might suddenly feel a bit nervous.

Re: The Salary Cap
Leipziger 08 June, 2020 20:47
Quote:
alas
Down to 5 million for 2021 2022 according to the Guardian. Marquee players to be discussed further. [www.theguardian.com]

"With the Premiership still planning on introducing a Covid-19 testing programme at a cost of around £20,000 a week per club when contact training begins, the financial outlook is particularly bleak." At least that's one cost we shouldn't need to pay.

Re: The Salary Cap
Kingston Parker 08 June, 2020 21:28
Fortunately the virus will be well gone by the time we return to training for next season, so we’ll save £20k per week on testing compared to the other 11 🤞

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 09 June, 2020 08:49
Very interesting reaction from Neil Pissler on the titter platform he uses to exprss the opinions he cannot voice on his TRP page where his role is restricted to that of gossipmonger.

He says the RFU has shot itself in the foot by limiting ambitious clubs like Bristol who will not be able to compete on a level playing field against French and Irish sides.

Rollocks! Why should ambition be down to cash? And, as I have expressed elsewhere, I don't give the proverbial about European competition. My sole concern is that we should have a sustainable game in England.

If clubs can no longer afford costly foreign players, so be it. Are we suggesting that England cannot develop players of equal quality?

Re: The Salary Cap
pityacker 09 June, 2020 09:02
Totally agree Dick the money 💰 spent on marquee players could be well spent on facilities and training for academies however a thought on developing players that end up superstars eg Itoje and Farrell at Saracens become much sought after and the club that spent time and money On their development have to pay them superstar money to keep them , a bit of a cleft sticK scenario but that’s the way it works.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 09 June, 2020 09:25
I think I read somewhere that French clubs are also having to consider their finances. So chasing big dosh across the Channel may no longer be the easy option. I think the post-Covid rugby scene will be much changed.

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 09 June, 2020 09:43
we have been agreeing a lot latterly dick but completely disagree with you here. I love the european competion and the prem is a meaningless league with no historic riveralry for us . If we pay a premium price to watch a premium game I want to see world class superstars. I can see what you want at some of our great local clubs for £0 too £5 with great rivelry.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 09 June, 2020 11:22
Quote:
stuart66
we have been agreeing a lot latterly dick but completely disagree with you here. I love the european competion and the prem is a meaningless league with no historic riveralry for us . If we pay a premium price to watch a premium game I want to see world class superstars. I can see what you want at some of our great local clubs for £0 too £5 with great rivelry.

We continue to disagree in the politest of fashions. Don't think Prem is how you describe it. I am not fixated on "world class superstars" if we cannot afford them. I have watched the Falcons from the start and before then, Gosforth. There are a handful of European games compared to a full season of Prem. Let's show the world tge quality of players we can produce.

Re: The Salary Cap
Osric 09 June, 2020 13:07
If a few clubs can't compete with the richest French and Irish clubs so be it, if the upside of this is that we have a premiership that isn't spending £50 million a year more than it can actually afford.

As a bit of a simpleton, I see this like running a household budget. For a number of years we've had to go running to the bank of Kurdi to give us another loan. It's no way to run finances.

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 09 June, 2020 14:01
yes dick we are not going to agree but that's ok we all have personnel perferences and I respect your opinons even when I do not agree with you. As I have said before I prefer the local rivalry of north1east or Northumberland durham1 than the prem. I love the European competion and try working my summer holidays around the finals. I have always been annoyed and frustrated by the teams we have put out for the European games while I have no little interst in the likes of quins, sale or bath. I do like northhampton wasps and glouster but that's mainly down to the fact that I like their fans.

Re: The Salary Cap
Leipziger 09 June, 2020 14:06
The Falcons (and Gosforth before them) have been playing Sale and Harlequins since the 1950s, European cups has only been around since 1995. The Premiership has a lot of historic rivalries. I like both the Premiership and the European games and surely there's a place for both.

Have to agree with Dick though about competing in Europe, if English teams don't win the tournaments very often then that's how it is. That said, just because Bristol and Wasps are spending £7m + 2 marquee players every year, doesn't mean that we and Irish have to try to get nearer it. Yes we want to be competitive but have to cut our cloth.

Re: The Salary Cap
Bedlington Lad 09 June, 2020 14:37
Quote:
Leipziger
The Falcons (and Gosforth before them) have been playing Sale and Harlequins since the 1950s, European cups has only been around since 1995. The Premiership has a lot of historic rivalries. I like both the Premiership and the European games and surely there's a place for both.
Have to agree with Dick though about competing in Europe, if English teams don't win the tournaments very often then that's how it is. That said, just because Bristol and Wasps are spending £7m + 2 marquee players every year, doesn't mean that we and Irish have to try to get nearer it. Yes we want to be competitive but have to cut our cloth.
This 100%

Re: The Salary Cap
Horus 09 June, 2020 15:43
First, the Rrem agreement was apparently unanimous. I thought a majority verdict should be the best outcome, to effectively eliminate the two year combined Prem loss of £89m. Also, it is a mystery why the Prem went for a majority verdict (10-3) that is contrary the majority jury verdict of 10-1, or 9-1 in criminal law and civil law cases. So the Prem has come up with a temporary answer to the financial crisis: the salary cap is cut from £7m (£6.4m. + £600, 000 for EQPs) to £5m. and additional payments for E Q players of £1m for 21-22 season + 2 marquee players. From 22-23 season there will only one marquee player, but the salary cap will be increased to its current(2019-20) level. So the temporary change to the salary cap plus te retention of the marqhuee player system is a sop to Lansdown and Briss. With a proper majority verdict (x-1) the financial crisis could be ended not just shelved for a while. Obviously, the next round of contract negotiations will be crucial. Expect a lot of players will off loaded (esp. from Sarries), but to where? In France the salary cap of £11.3m. is being challenged by several club owners, plus the quota rules for next season require the match day squad to consist of 16 French qualified players and a max of 14 foreigners.

Re: The Salary Cap
dick g 09 June, 2020 18:13
I think the higher cap will only return if increased tele revenue makes it possible. It will need a vote.

Re: The Salary Cap
Monkey1 10 June, 2020 08:11
The higher salary cap will return when those with more interest in their egos than the good of the game apply pressure, based upon some nonsense idea that somehow they must compete against other clubs that spend way beyond what is sustainable, and we will go back to the same old situation of a few braggards buying the trophies year after year, and the rest of the clubs are made to look rubbish.

It is a pretty poor model if you ask me.

Re: The Salary Cap
SimonG19 10 June, 2020 12:19
Quote:
Monkey1
The higher salary cap will return when those with more interest in their egos than the good of the game apply pressure, based upon some nonsense idea that somehow they must compete against other clubs that spend way beyond what is sustainable, and we will go back to the same old situation of a few braggards buying the trophies year after year, and the rest of the clubs are made to look rubbish.
It is a pretty poor model if you ask me.

So probably by the end of the month then?

Re: The Salary Cap
stuart66 10 June, 2020 13:05
the rugby players association is now threating legal action if they do not get a say in the salary cap

Re: The Salary Cap
Horus 10 June, 2020 14:43
I agree Monkey the Prem (PRL) is a ‘poor model’, but I think it is worse that that; a plan to restore the pre-pandemic financial crisis (£89m.) Only its favour is a temporary respite for Prem clubs from 20-21 season when the cap is reduced from £7m. By £1.4m., despite the continuation of the marquee player system with its inflationary pressure on players wages within the cap. (see Myners report). This respite continues until the 22-23 season when the £7m. cap is reinstated. This reinstament is predicted on the assumption that TV revenues will have increased(as Dick noted). This assumption seems grossly unlikely: it could be characterised as a wing and a prayer. Pre-pandemic revenues occurred with a buoyant economy. The post -pandemic period economy is likely endure a prolonged recession, worse than the 2008 one, with horrific levels of governt ment indebtness. So the hope of increase TV revenues is mere wishful thinking. From the 22-23 season the two drivers of the pre-pandemic drivers of the financial crisis(£7m.cap and marquee player system) will be in place in the PRL agreement.

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net