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3rd April 2020

RFU Confirmed Newcastle Falconsí promotion to the Gallagher Premiership for the 2020-21 season


Johnny Williams
Discussion started by DocA27 , 23 June, 2020 23:55
Johnny Williams
DocA27 23 June, 2020 23:55
More depressing transfer news, as multiple reports this evening confirming the rumours that Johnny Williams is off to Scarlets.

So that's our best centre and our best young prospect out the door in the space of a few days.

And for those that will inevitably respond "We're a poorer club lower down the table, we can't hold onto these players", a poorer club lower down the table, Worcester, just re-signed Ted Hill and Ollie Lawrence.

Re: Johnny Williams
maire88 24 June, 2020 02:20
Worcester are clearly in the financial position to be able to tie down two of their brightest young players on significant contracts so that would suggest that they arenít as poor as you make them out to be.
Unfortunately thatís the nature of rugby. The best players in smaller teams quickly get snatched by the ones with the most money. Iíve seen it countless times in the other team that I watch. Yes itís tough- itís unpalatable and it might make for some absolute frustration (as Iíve seen in the thread about Josh Hodge. Thereís clearly some frustration there) As good as they are though- two players donít make a team. No-one knows what will happen in these next few weeks/months. There will likely be a flurry of activity in this next week or so as contracts end and players move. Maybe not where the Falcons is concerned but who knows whatís going on behind the scenes?

Re: Johnny Williams
ed.up.north 24 June, 2020 04:28
I know we donít know all the details. I know there are lots of factors at play. I know a rugby playerís career is short.

This still feels like a massive kick in the balls.

Re: Johnny Williams
Garym 24 June, 2020 09:28
As a Worcester fan, it has been an amazing week for us, with two more contract extensions to come.

With regards to finances, I would say that it is toss up between ourselves and you for the "poorest" teams in the Premiership. We have only signed 3 new players for "next' season, who wouldn't have cost that much.


Unfortunately, I see it as the usual battle for relegation next season (us, you, Tigers, LI). With all the guys we have promoted from the academy to the premiership squad and the two extensions of Hill and Lawrence, I wonder if the clubs know something about the future we don't!

Anyway good luck for "next" season and I look forward to my week in Northumberland for the away game.

Re: Johnny Williams
GeordieFalcon 24 June, 2020 09:51
Another worst kept secret.

As above , i can only hope ring fencing is coming in and we're just going to blood all the kids with a few championship signings.

If relegation is still happening...we're already gone before a game has kicked off!

Re: Johnny Williams
Falconsfan93 24 June, 2020 10:14
Just like the hodge rumours, this has been a slow burner for a good few months now. I know a lot of folk on here donít like my stance on the matter but I just find it so unprofessional and frankly a kick in the b&@:!@ks to us paying fans having to find out our most promising player and one of our better seasoned players are leaving through another clubs twitter account. If ring fencing isnít a formality as some people have mentioned on some posts then we are as good as back down. I just canít get my head around how championship clubs who will be waiting like us until late 2020 to start up the season again can inform fans of player comings and goings and quite clearly donít have the same finances available to them as we do. Just to clarify Smithy if your reading this, this isnít a dig at you as I know fine well youíve done your upmost to engage with us on here during these last few months and your hands are ultimately tied. But I get this overriding feeling Falcons as a club are way way behind majority of other clubs in terms of how they operate in todayís game.

Re: Johnny Williams
CharlieDog 24 June, 2020 10:33
Quote:
Falconsfan93
Just like the hodge rumours, this has been a slow burner for a good few months now. I know a lot of folk on here donít like my stance on the matter but I just find it so unprofessional and frankly a kick in the b&@:!@ks to us paying fans having to find out our most promising player and one of our better seasoned players are leaving through another clubs twitter account. If ring fencing isnít a formality as some people have mentioned on some posts then we are as good as back down. I just canít get my head around how championship clubs who will be waiting like us until late 2020 to start up the season again can inform fans of player comings and goings and quite clearly donít have the same finances available to them as we do. Just to clarify Smithy if your reading this, this isnít a dig at you as I know fine well youíve done your upmost to engage with us on here during these last few months and your hands are ultimately tied. But I get this overriding feeling Falcons as a club are way way behind majority of other clubs in terms of how they operate in todayís game.

Yawn.........

Re: Johnny Williams
stuart66 24 June, 2020 10:44
scarlets have not yet announced anything and all we have to go on is a report in the daily mail . haveing looked at their website twitter and facebook their is nothing about johhny . the scarlet fans dont know whats happening. i think he is gone but their is no evidence to back that up yet.

Re: Johnny Williams
ed.up.north 24 June, 2020 10:44
Quote:
Falconsfan93
Just like the hodge rumours, this has been a slow burner for a good few months now. I know a lot of folk on here donít like my stance on the matter but I just find it so unprofessional and frankly a kick in the b&@:!@ks to us paying fans having to find out our most promising player and one of our better seasoned players are leaving through another clubs twitter account. If ring fencing isnít a formality as some people have mentioned on some posts then we are as good as back down. I just canít get my head around how championship clubs who will be waiting like us until late 2020 to start up the season again can inform fans of player comings and goings and quite clearly donít have the same finances available to them as we do. Just to clarify Smithy if your reading this, this isnít a dig at you as I know fine well youíve done your upmost to engage with us on here during these last few months and your hands are ultimately tied. But I get this overriding feeling Falcons as a club are way way behind majority of other clubs in terms of how they operate in todayís game.

I agree. I have the greatest respect for Mark, I understand the restrictions caused by furlough and donít hold any ill will towards him.

The club, on the other hand, does not come out of this episode well. If youíre going to furlough your media team, then you have a duty to make sure alternative arrangements are in place. Some club staff will be at work and could easily have picked up this particular aspect of Smithyís usual work. Other clubs are managing to issue critical communications despite having large numbers of people on furlough. Mick Hogan himself is a regular Twitter user, surely as a last resort he could have stepped in?

Re: Johnny Williams
stuart66 24 June, 2020 10:49
falcons did manage to put up a post about wells leaveing after the furloughs came in so somebody is caperbil of posting messages on the website

Re: Johnny Williams
Falconsfan93 24 June, 2020 11:04
Quote:
CharlieDog
Quote:
Falconsfan93
Just like the hodge rumours, this has been a slow burner for a good few months now. I know a lot of folk on here donít like my stance on the matter but I just find it so unprofessional and frankly a kick in the b&@:!@ks to us paying fans having to find out our most promising player and one of our better seasoned players are leaving through another clubs twitter account. If ring fencing isnít a formality as some people have mentioned on some posts then we are as good as back down. I just canít get my head around how championship clubs who will be waiting like us until late 2020 to start up the season again can inform fans of player comings and goings and quite clearly donít have the same finances available to them as we do. Just to clarify Smithy if your reading this, this isnít a dig at you as I know fine well youíve done your upmost to engage with us on here during these last few months and your hands are ultimately tied. But I get this overriding feeling Falcons as a club are way way behind majority of other clubs in terms of how they operate in todayís game.

Yawn.........

CD one of my biggest fans ......Ha! Hey itís good to have differing opinions the world would be an extremely boring place! Hope your keeping well and enjoying the weather while you yawn at my posts.

Re: Johnny Williams
limpopo 24 June, 2020 11:22
Worcester are not poor!

Re: Johnny Williams
GeordieFalcon 24 June, 2020 11:37
Just think in the last few months we've lost...

9 Takalua
10 Josh Matavesi (I know hes a 12 really)
11
12 Williams
13 Penny
14
15 Hodge

Not a bad backline in the making!!

Re: Johnny Williams
Siders 24 June, 2020 11:44
Disappointed with this.

However, he is out of contract so really its his choice, and it would seem from the stories that this is more than just about money.

I think its fair enough to be annoyed, but i think the anger really should be channelled towards how we can make the club as a whole more attractive to players and more financially stable.

These individual departures often have a myriad of underlying reasons. GF - agree with you that thats a healthy back line, but equally, when you take the cases individually you have a player late in his career given a once in a lifetime chance to play in the south of france and earn some money, a youngster approached to join one of the best clubs in the country who have produced a lot of england players, and a young centre who clearly wants to play for Wales...

Re: the communication, i agree with those that say the clubs approach has been pretty poor. Its not Mark's fault at all, but part of building back is communicating well.

Re: Johnny Williams
Pool_falcon 24 June, 2020 11:50
Sad news but this one does not hurt in the same way Hodge did.

Worrying times.

Re: Johnny Williams
GeordieFalcon 24 June, 2020 11:52
Quote:
Siders
I
GF - agree with you that thats a healthy back line, but equally, when you take the cases individually you have a player late in his career given a once in a lifetime chance to play in the south of france and earn some money, a youngster approached to join one of the best clubs in the country who have produced a lot of england players, and a young centre who clearly wants to play for Wales....

Agree, difficult to keep them...plus young Tom Penny was just incredbily injury prone.

i guess we need to see who we sign up , and how the players who performed vvery well last season (Stevenson, Wakecoke, Radwan, Connon, Peterson) etc etc can cope with the big step up.

I still think Lucock the Doncaster 12, could be a very shrewd signing.

Re: Johnny Williams
GeordieFalcon 24 June, 2020 13:25
Is Charlie Wilson due to finish his uni studies this year?

Re: Johnny Williams
FalcDancer 24 June, 2020 13:34
Losing Williams, Matavesi & Harris within 12 months. All quality players that cannot just be replaced by academy players

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 24 June, 2020 13:55
More gutted about this then Hodge.

Bloke is class act. All the best to him. Hopefully theyíve been replaced adequately or in the process of doing so by the club.

Re: Johnny Williams
Osric 24 June, 2020 13:58
Ring fencing, a miracle or weíre down. Iíll keep toddling along, when allowed, but itís a shame. That said, I want to still have a club to watch in a decadeís time, and, as stated, unless anyoneís got a couple of million to spare every year, itís where we are.

Re: Johnny Williams
aidanb 24 June, 2020 15:00
I posted some time ago about hearing from other clubs about them signing players from us.

I took some traffic for it.

Then the french club posted the exact thing whilst we were playing.

This one isnít on twitter / web etc. Yet but you just know itís coming.
Which club will break the news first though?

Re: Johnny Williams
Garym 24 June, 2020 16:45
Quote:
limpopo
Worcester are not poor!

And this evidence comes from where ?

Re: Johnny Williams
Oneforthefatboys 24 June, 2020 17:10
Down already if relegation is not scrapped

Re: Johnny Williams
CharlieDog 24 June, 2020 19:23
Quote:
Oneforthefatboys
Down already if relegation is not scrapped

Just the sort of confidence the team needs...... well done

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 24 June, 2020 19:39
Yes weíve lost some quality players and not much news from the club regarding anything in general.

Who knows whatís going on behind the scenes and the new Prem season is miles away so still time to assemble the squad. Season we finished 4th we were given no chance and looked what happened.

People resorting to ďwell we are relegatedĒ without even knowing what our squad is going to look like is borderline madness. Club are in a unprecedented situation , letís wait and see what timescale we are given for our new season and thatíll give an indicator on when we should start seeing updates on our squad makeup therefore a more accurate estimate on season chances/expectations.

As falcons fans we are always up against it compared to the giants down south. We have to have hope otherwise I just donít see the point. Whilst gutted about losing Hodge and Williams Iím looking forward to seeing us back in the Prem and ready to get behind the boys whoever they may be.

Re: Johnny Williams
matt1il 24 June, 2020 20:42
Quote:
Barry555
Season we finished 4th we were given no chance and looked what happened.

Were we though? The season before we finished 8th pushing for Champions Cup rugby, we weren't tipped for 4th but certainly weren't relegation favourites

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 24 June, 2020 20:56
Quote:
matt1il
Quote:
Barry555
Season we finished 4th we were given no chance and looked what happened.

Were we though? The season before we finished 8th pushing for Champions Cup rugby, we weren't tipped for 4th but certainly weren't relegation favourites

Huge difference between finishing between 8th-5th place then breaking into the top four for play offs.

Re: Johnny Williams
matt1il 24 June, 2020 21:06
I completely agree, but (and I may have mis-understood your comment) we weren't given no chance in terms of staying up, maybe you meant no chance in getting 4th?

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 24 June, 2020 21:14
Quote:
matt1il
I completely agree, but (and I may have mis-understood your comment) we weren't given no chance in terms of staying up, maybe you meant no chance in getting 4th?


Haha yes Matt I meant given no chance of reaching 4th place. Apologies it wasnít clear!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/06/2020 21:16 by Barry555.

Re: Johnny Williams
Oneforthefatboys 24 June, 2020 21:59
I just cannot see how we can compete. When we were fourth we had this team on paper

Lockwood
Cooper
Welsh/mulipola
Green
Witty
Wilson
Welch
Latu
Takelua
Flood
Sinoti
Matavesi
Harris
Geneva
Hammersley

That team would thump our current team

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 24 June, 2020 22:08
And then the season after we were relegated with those players too (apart from Latu I think).

Weíve gone from average team to a decent team before we can do it again.

Do you know the confirmed squad for next season?

Re: Johnny Williams
Almostan Oldgit 25 June, 2020 09:08
Just to put a slightly more positive slant on things, I have it on very good authority that Logo is going nowhere (other than having a spell playing for Leicester on loan whilst they finish the "current" Premiership). This presumably means that positive things are going on in the background.

Re: Johnny Williams
BorderFalcon 25 June, 2020 10:10
Quote:
Almostan Oldgit
Just to put a slightly more positive slant on things, I have it on very good authority that Logo is going nowhere (other than having a spell playing for Leicester on loan whilst they finish the "current" Premiership). This presumably means that positive things are going on in the background.

If true this is good news. No only because Logo will be here next year but, as AO suggests, positive things are still happening within our sleeping club. I feel quite heady with positivity.

Re: Johnny Williams
matt1il 25 June, 2020 10:55
Quote:
Almostan Oldgit
Just to put a slightly more positive slant on things, I have it on very good authority that Logo is going nowhere (other than having a spell playing for Leicester on loan whilst they finish the "current" Premiership). This presumably means that positive things are going on in the background.

Hopefully a lot more of this is happening or god knows how players will keep match fitness levels up to everyone else's standards over our prolonged break.

Re: Johnny Williams
Exiled Falcon 25 June, 2020 12:03
Feel more irritated by Johnnyís change in nationality than the fact heís going! On top form heís a tremendous player but his going leaves an opportunity for our younger players. Itís also far too early to get downbeat about our chances, we donít even know our final squad yet.

Re: Johnny Williams
stuart66 25 June, 2020 12:45
when ever i see somebody says i have it on good authority i think b s. never been too impressed by logo playing for us so dont care if he leaves

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 25 June, 2020 13:15
Someone drop Logo a message and tell him not to bother coming back next season since we are already relegated eh?

On a serious note after the season we finished 4th we lost quite a big contingent of international experienced players and old heads Hogg/Lawson/Latu/Vickers and didnít quite manage to fill those gaps effectively enough. Also Welsh has been non existent due to injuries poor bloke. If Logo is staying and will be in our squad next year good - whilst heís not set the world alight for us he hasnít been bad. International front rowers for us are like gold dust.

Re: Johnny Williams
limpopo 25 June, 2020 14:06
The backer which you have Garym , for starters

Re: Johnny Williams
Siders 25 June, 2020 14:21
Quote:
Barry555
On a serious note after the season we finished 4th we lost quite a big contingent of international experienced players and old heads Hogg/Lawson/Latu/Vickers and didnít quite manage to fill those gaps effectively enough. Also Welsh has been non existent due to injuries poor bloke. If Logo is staying and will be in our squad next year good - whilst heís not set the world alight for us he hasnít been bad. International front rowers for us are like gold dust.

I completely agree with this. I know its fashionable on here to moan about the lack of opportunities for youngsters, but (though i realise this is fighting old battles), the year we were relegated I firmly believe we did so because of a lack of wise heads. We lost some games by very fine margins. Others may have better recollection but there was one game at home where we started awfully and leaked tries. We came back in the second half and almost won. If there was a Latu/Hogg type figure there in the first half, i reckon we'd have turned it round....

Fact is, it was relegation that has put us in such an awful financial position, and i think there is a lesson to be learned in why we ultimately went down.

Until we have a billionaire backer with the same commitment as Semore Kurdi, we're going to have to live with a mix of youth, experience and players having a second chance.

I sense we overstretched a bit e.g. with Mermoz when signing an old head would probably have been better.

Re: Johnny Williams
matt1il 25 June, 2020 15:18
Quote:
Siders
Quote:
Barry555
On a serious note after the season we finished 4th we lost quite a big contingent of international experienced players and old heads Hogg/Lawson/Latu/Vickers and didnít quite manage to fill those gaps effectively enough. Also Welsh has been non existent due to injuries poor bloke. If Logo is staying and will be in our squad next year good - whilst heís not set the world alight for us he hasnít been bad. International front rowers for us are like gold dust.

I completely agree with this. I know its fashionable on here to moan about the lack of opportunities for youngsters, but (though i realise this is fighting old battles), the year we were relegated I firmly believe we did so because of a lack of wise heads. We lost some games by very fine margins.

There was an incredibly fine line between 4th one year (we won 9 games by less than 1 score) and being relegated (same, just the opposite way, we got 6 Losing Bonus Points).

The loss of those 4 (and the subsequent drop in the wage budget to replace them) really hurt us.

And re: earlier Barry, no my fault, I read it wrong!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/06/2020 15:21 by matt1il.

Re: Johnny Williams
Barry555 25 June, 2020 21:18
Could have been interpreted either way I reckon Matt so we will call it 50/50! Haha

Very much fine line scores wise last season. However I still feel we really did deserve to go down. Too many games we let teams rack up the points then we did well to catch back up normally but always fell short. Canít be letting teams in as easy and early on as we did last year.

Tigers we bang in trouble and were there for the taking and could have quite easily have finished bottom.

Re: Johnny Williams
Oneforthefatboys 25 June, 2020 23:02
The year we went down we lost all those players and also had a shocking injury lost. I think if we did not have the injuries we would have stayed up. The experience we lost also led to us losing tight games through reduced leadership

Re: Johnny Williams
CharlieDog 29 June, 2020 17:03
Quote:
Falconsfan93
Quote:
CharlieDog
Quote:
Falconsfan93
Just like the hodge rumours, this has been a slow burner for a good few months now. I know a lot of folk on here donít like my stance on the matter but I just find it so unprofessional and frankly a kick in the b&@:!@ks to us paying fans having to find out our most promising player and one of our better seasoned players are leaving through another clubs twitter account. If ring fencing isnít a formality as some people have mentioned on some posts then we are as good as back down. I just canít get my head around how championship clubs who will be waiting like us until late 2020 to start up the season again can inform fans of player comings and goings and quite clearly donít have the same finances available to them as we do. Just to clarify Smithy if your reading this, this isnít a dig at you as I know fine well youíve done your upmost to engage with us on here during these last few months and your hands are ultimately tied. But I get this overriding feeling Falcons as a club are way way behind majority of other clubs in terms of how they operate in todayís game.

Yawn.........

CD one of my biggest fans ......Ha! Hey itís good to have differing opinions the world would be an extremely boring place! Hope your keeping well and enjoying the weather while you yawn at my posts.

It certainly would be a boring place, we agree on something anyway........! I am keeping well thank you, just getting a bit tired of all this lockdown and lack of rugby, hence the occasional yawn. Trust you are well too?


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