Latest news:

Welcome to the Newcastle Falcons Fans Forum

This forum is for all Falcons' fans, and is independent of the both the club and the supporters association. If you have something to say about Newcastle Falcons this is the place to say it. However please keep it clean and non abusive, and respect the other users of this board!

While the editors of this site monitor the board, they are not responsible for the content of the postings. Any concerns, complaints etc., should be emailed to Sportnetwork. If you want to spam, please go,elsewhere any spamming will be deleted.


Captain Mark Wilson - has been named in England's training squad as they prepare for the upcoming autumn tests.

3rd April 2020

RFU Confirmed Newcastle Falcons’ promotion to the Gallagher Premiership for the 2020-21 season


Exeter name
Discussion started by dick g , 30 July, 2020 14:39
Exeter name
dick g 30 July, 2020 14:39
Good that Exeter management has done the right thing. The name Chiefs is well-established and does not indicate disrespect for the indigenous population of North America. Comparisons with Washington Redskins is inappropriate. The term "redskin" was employed as an insult during the US attempt to displace the native population. It is the equivalent to n****r for black Americans. I use asterix not to avoid deletion, but simply because I cannot use the word.

Those who are poised to accuse me of "wokeness" might like to register that I also dislike calling indigenous Americans "indians" as this was the name applied by the first European explorers who thought they had landed, as planned, in India. Aborigines is equally unpleasant.

The Exeter mascot, however, is an insulting comic book parody which we can live without.

Before the anti-wokeists get going, I am not attempting to re-write history, but learn to recognise its mistakes.

Re: Exeter name
FalcDancer 30 July, 2020 15:54
I agree Dick
I don’t see the issue with using the term Chiefs. It’s not disrespectful in my eyes

Re: Exeter name
Andy Mac 30 July, 2020 17:14
Didn’t native Americans indicate that they deemed offensive? (Honest question, I’m not very well read up on the subject).

I’ll keep my opinions quiet, as I expect the usual barrage of ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’ and get the usual ‘guardian reading mung bean eating vegan’ stereotypes thrown about by the usual lot on here :-/

Re: Exeter name
matt1il 30 July, 2020 19:10
Quote:
Andy Mac
I’ll keep my opinions quiet, as I expect the usual barrage of ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’ and get the usual ‘guardian reading mung bean eating vegan’ stereotypes thrown about by the usual lot on here :-/

Oh let them say what they want!

The name chief isn't a problem if it was/is linked to Devon's Chiefs as they suggest but it's clearly not linked to that when you go to Exeter, it is quite clearly linked to indigenous Americans which is both (mainly) baffling, weird and I can see how it could offend.

I'll wait for those to tell me how it'll be against tradition to get rid of the chant, or a mascot or a badge with a fictional chief drawn in '99.

Re: Exeter name
trummy200 30 July, 2020 19:37
Well trying to watch a match with a pseudo war bonnet stuck in front of me accompanied by the 'Tomahawk Chop' or what ever its called would drive me up the wall.

I know I am a miserable old fogey alright.

That is on a personal level - looking at the broader picture I believe using the 'Chiefs' as they do is disrespectful to the indigenous people of North America



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/07/2020 21:29 by trummy200.

Re: Exeter name
GeordieFalcon 31 July, 2020 11:04
How is the name "Chiefs" disrespectful? What actaully makes it offensive to them....

Its like the Canterbury "Crusaders"...how is that actually offensive?

Re: Exeter name
Rafpilot2000 31 July, 2020 13:02
It's starting to get silly when you can't use any term for anything as you Risk eventually getting held hostage by the one person who takes umbridge at everything and everyone else is so paralysed by worry that they may be branded disrespectful that they agree with the one protagonist .
It's not disrespectful, it's not wrong and Exeter has got it absolutely right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2020 13:04 by Rafpilot2000.

Re: Exeter name
SimonG19 31 July, 2020 13:57
Quote:
Andy Mac
Didn’t native Americans indicate that they deemed offensive? (Honest question, I’m not very well read up on the subject).
I’ll keep my opinions quiet, as I expect the usual barrage of ‘it’s political correctness gone mad’ and get the usual ‘guardian reading mung bean eating vegan’ stereotypes thrown about by the usual lot on here :-/

I'm sure if you try hard enough you could find some Native Americans who find it offensive and if you try hard enough you could find some Native Americans who don't.

Re: Exeter name
Leipziger 31 July, 2020 14:05
I don't know too much about it all but it seems Exeter have done alright here, keep the branding (though they may change their logo still I think), but stop the caricature.

Re: Exeter name
Horus 31 July, 2020 14:54
I agree Dick 's original post. But the real name problem is not Exeter Chiefs, but the Saracens name. I recollect
the amateur days of schoolboy rugby when a touring Saracens side played independent schools ( From the XV, I missed out that year with concussion). Iwas struct by the oddity of the touring side's name. As in many pub names, Turk's name or Saracens head, I thought the reference to arabs and Muslims, which the OED has connotations, heathen, pagan, infidel. In short. Islamphobia.

Re: Exeter name
CharlieDog 31 July, 2020 15:36
Quote:
Rafpilot2000
It's starting to get silly when you can't use any term for anything as you Risk eventually getting held hostage by the one person who takes umbridge at everything and everyone else is so paralysed by worry that they may be branded disrespectful that they agree with the one protagonist .
It's not disrespectful, it's not wrong and Exeter has got it absolutely right.

Concise, brilliant and 100% true

Re: Exeter name
Exiled Falcon 31 July, 2020 15:39
Be proud of who you are Andy, whatever your reading and eating habits!

The name doesn’t bother me although I can see why it would be offensive. I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Re: Exeter name
matt1il 31 July, 2020 17:11
Before people start jumping on people in here. Not one person on here has said there is an issue with the name Chiefs.

It is the things that Exeter put with it that makes it quite clear that it's linked to native Americans.

As trummy said "using it as they do"

Re: Exeter name
Monkey1 31 July, 2020 18:10
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Would we? My experience of Brits is that they probably couldn't give a proverbial.

Re: Exeter name
RiponFalcon 31 July, 2020 19:14
Quote:
Monkey1
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Would we? My experience of Brits is that they probably couldn't give a proverbial.
Which is probably the same with the native Americans and the activities of a rugby team in Exeter

Project the NHS or just wear a badge and applaud with your neighbours watching each week?
Do something about racism or wear a badge and take the knee on tv?
There are too many people who will make the gesture if enough people are watching but don’t really believe or do anything to make a difference. I’m sure thousand of native Americans will sleep happier knowing the mascot is no more



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/07/2020 19:25 by RiponFalcon.

Re: Exeter name
CharlieDog 31 July, 2020 19:50
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
Be proud of who you are Andy, whatever your reading and eating habits!
The name doesn’t bother me although I can see why it would be offensive. I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Of course we wouldn't!!!!! Apart from the odd snowflake. This is a perfect example of what RAFpilot so eloquently explained

Re: Exeter name
dick g 31 July, 2020 21:15
Quote:
Rafpilot2000
It's starting to get silly when you can't use any term for anything as you Risk eventually getting held hostage by the one person who takes umbridge at everything and everyone else is so paralysed by worry that they may be branded disrespectful that they agree with the one protagonist .
It's not disrespectful, it's not wrong and Exeter has got it absolutely right.

"..one person who takes umbrage at everything"? Quite a simplistic analysis of the situation, I'm afraid. Reduction ad absurdum in order to dismiss objections. Tut tut.

Re: Exeter name
dick g 01 August, 2020 08:54
Quote:
CharlieDog
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
Be proud of who you are Andy, whatever your reading and eating habits!
The name doesn’t bother me although I can see why it would be offensive. I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Of course we wouldn't!!!!! Apart from the odd snowflake. This is a perfect example of what RAFpilot so eloquently explained

As the loathsome @#$%& Tommy Robinson calls his opponents "snowflakes" I am very happy to be one.

Re: Exeter name
dick g 01 August, 2020 22:00
Quote:
dick g
Quote:
CharlieDog
Quote:
Exiled Falcon
Be proud of who you are Andy, whatever your reading and eating habits!
The name doesn’t bother me although I can see why it would be offensive. I suppose if a Native American team was called the Wisconsin Limeys and their mascot was a red faced, beer belied slob we’d be quite offended.

Of course we wouldn't!!!!! Apart from the odd snowflake. This is a perfect example of what RAFpilot so eloquently explained

As the loathsome @#$%& Tommy Robinson calls his
opponents "snowflakes" I am very happy to be one.

For some reason, this forum doesn't like the standard abbreviated form of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Just so you know what I think Tommy Robinson is

Re: Exeter name
Gray_Lensman 03 August, 2020 11:53
The odd thing is that Exeter have decided to ditch their 'Big Chief' mascot.

So they acknowledge that there is something wrong or inappropriate with the mascot but not with all the rest of their cartoonish racism. Either brazen the whole thing out or change the lot. A part-way decision makes them look weaselly.

Re: Exeter name
GeordieFalcon 03 August, 2020 12:19
Cartoonish Racism?? Really??

Re: Exeter name
CharlieDog 03 August, 2020 12:22
Quote:
Gray_Lensman
The odd thing is that Exeter have decided to ditch their 'Big Chief' mascot.
So they acknowledge that there is something wrong or inappropriate with the mascot but not with all the rest of their cartoonish racism. Either brazen the whole thing out or change the lot. A part-way decision makes them look weaselly.

Why is it these days, when someone doesn't like something, they immediately label it racism.

And because I use one word out of the whole of the English language which is also spoken by a racist there is an implicit insinuation towards me - it's a bit like people being scared to use the St George's flag because it's also associated by a racist minority. If I said Tommy Robinson rides a bike so anyone riding a bike is a racist....... it would be clearly absurd, but if you attach racism to a stupid tenuous link to make it sound worse, it's also absurd.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Exeter's name, logo or anything else. Nor is there anything wrong with the Saracens name. Next we'll be having objections from the Tiger / Shark / Wasp / Falcon Preservation Society that we're making fun out of them with our cuddly mascot!!!!

Re: Exeter name
SimonG19 03 August, 2020 12:45
Quote:
GeordieFalcon
Cartoonish Racism?? Really??

Laughable isn't it?

Re: Exeter name
GeordieFalcon 03 August, 2020 13:11
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
GeordieFalcon
Cartoonish Racism?? Really??

Laughable isn't it?

I genuinely despair...

Re: Exeter name
Monkey1 03 August, 2020 13:57
There is a common theme to all these types of nonsense, people unaffected & uninvolved by any of it looking to claim that somebody they haven't asked might be offended by something that somebody else has done. It is not dissimilar to a naughty schoolboy constantly telling the teacher what other children have been doing wrong, while doing nothing to improve his own behaviour.

Apologies, 'schoolboy' is a bit gender specific and might have offended somebody, better change it to schoolchild, but then isn't that ageist and also potentially offensive?

Oh dear!

Where does it stop?

Should we ban Robin Hood stories? Maybe they should be eradicated for all time, after all it was an all male group except for Maid Marion who was portrayed in an utterly unacceptable manner which these days would be condemned as misogynistic.

All pantomimes should be banned, after all they do nothing but poke fun at Widow Twanky (humiliated for being recreationally trans-gender) or dwarfs (need I explain) or giants (opposite of dwarfs but equally as unacceptable height-ism).

Should Penguin books be banned? After all, those birds are slaughtering harmless krill and fish, decimating the oceans, and the cartoon penguin used on their logo mocks the birds themselves.

Maybe we should ban everything, because as far as I can see, anybody can dream up some b&llsh!t about absolutely anything & find a way to say that somebody they have never met might find it offensive.

Re: Exeter name
CharlieDog 03 August, 2020 14:25
Monkey

I think you should be banned, since I know you are not a monkey (in the animal sense) you are being offensive to genuine monkeys - and I know that because I have asked one, so there, nah, nah na-nah nah!!

I would even suggest you were animalist..... but I am concerned that is leading us down a whole new route that should not be explored here!!!

Re: Exeter name
dick g 03 August, 2020 19:02
Quote:
Gray_Lensman
The odd thing is that Exeter have decided to ditch their 'Big Chief' mascot.
So they acknowledge that there is something wrong or inappropriate with the mascot but not with all the rest of their cartoonish racism. Either brazen the whole thing out or change the lot. A part-way decision makes them look weaselly.

Don't think the club symbol is disrespectful. The mascot, on the othrr hand, cettainly is. So, I think, is the Tomahawk Chop chant. But no way of stopping that. Unless it is met by a chorus of boos. Hold hard, I am joking.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net