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International level v Wasps
Discussion started by Boooo , 08 November, 2019 22:35
International level v Wasps
Boooo 08 November, 2019 22:35
Just an observation around the clear-out situations.

But what we witnessed in the Rugby World Cup were well- drilled sides coming in from a low position and moving upwards (with power and energy) to clear the man out from the ball, rendering the opposition player powerless to intervene.
Very clear and precise clear-out technique.
Donít get me wrong, this takes huge amounts of fitness, application, commitment and technique.
But itís highly effective and creates fast ball and wins games.

Wasps are so far away from this.
Players coming in sideways or flopping on top and providing no respite for the ball carrier.
We have some good runners. But, their runs are not been justified with the continuity that is created by other teams.
Hence, no front foot fast ball to attack from.

What are other peopleís thoughts on the matter?

Re: International level v Wasps
Matt82 09 November, 2019 08:41
You've made some valid points. I think It all comes down to our lack of intensity in defence structure, tackling and at the breakdown. Jack and Launchers will help with that but we rely on individuals. Our coaches are just god damn awful and are so far behind. Compare Costello to Edwards as defence coaches. No wonder we are sliding down the league. Playing wise we've got a squad that can compete for top 6 for now. Coaching wise its championship stuff and even then Notts fans were happy to get rid of Costello. Blackett? I mean what has the guy done since Cips went apart from turn an AB into a shell of a player and our attack as blunt as a butter knife. Our attack is a million miles away from the one that got to the 17 final. All on Blacketts watch. The guy thinks he's made it because he sits next to Dai every game now. Take last night for example in regard to clueless coaching. That last light out someone on the side should have been barking to Cruse out the lineout in short and maul it over the line. No they just let the guys on the pitch set one of the top and screw up. There's zero communication between coaches and players. The only one i hear on the sides is Baugh and he's the fitness coach! It's a god awful shambles that doesn't look like it's getting better. Good players are going backwards because of these inept coaches. When was the last time the team executed a game plan? What goes on in thevweek? Even when we win (7 in a year? 3 of them have been prem cup) it's never convincing. Exeter next in the league. I dread to think how many they'll stick on us.

Re: International level v Wasps
Matt82 09 November, 2019 09:30
Whose making the decisions on coaching? Surely Dai can't think the bunch he has currently are of top 4/champions cup rugby?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2019 09:33 by Matt82.

Re: International level v Wasps
Shugs 10 November, 2019 10:13
Come on Matt. Even if he tried I don't think Costello could drag a side down to the extent you believe he has. Are you seriously telling me that the likes of Brookes, Zhvania, Shields, Carr etc etc have spent careers hitting breakdowns but suddenly change everything for the worst because Costello tells them to?

Re: International level v Wasps
Matt82 10 November, 2019 10:24
Players are as good as the strategy the coaches set out for them to implement Shugs. The question you should be asking Shugs is why are the players going into contact with no support player and leaving them then vulnerable at the breakdown. Part of good coaching is getting the mindset of players right and I'm afraid our coaches are obviously not inspiring that squad as we have good players within it. People need to wake up and realise we are at serious risk of being relegated this season. You only have to look at our form over the last year. The coaching team is showing it doesn't have the skill, strategy or inspiration to change things.

Re: International level v Wasps
Geewhiz50 10 November, 2019 10:51
I disagree with you Shugs - though you have inadvertently hit the nail on the head. Individually Wasps have some excellent players but they are not a team. If the coaches haven't changed the way these players play, then who has? I am sure they haven't individually decided to do so!

No matter how you analyse the team and the results the conclusion is the same:
a. no cohesion - they do not appear to play as a team;
b. individually good, but collectively falling short;
c. No apparent game plan;
d. inability to change tactics if necessary ;
e. thoughtless penalties repeated (I believe it was 19 last game - i.e. a penalty every 4 minutes!

I could go on, but you get the gist. To put the current situation in perspective, our first 5 league games last year produced 4 wins and one loss - comprising 1 home win (Leicester) and 3 away wins (Worcester, Sale and Newcastle). It went downhill very rapidly after that. This year we do not have that opening "cushion" to help us.

I am not a doomsayer - I am simply trying to summarise accurately the dire straits that the club now finds itself it. No matter how you want to see salvation and a potential bright future - you cannot hide facts.

Re: International level v Wasps
Shugs 10 November, 2019 11:44
Geewhiz I'm not trying to hide facts. You mention the first four games of last year. We played worse in those games than the first four of this. Yet we won three. It's down to fine margins. We don't need wholesale change - just a few tweaks. Not sure that your assertion that just because we had a poor run last year it will be the same this?

Re: International level v Wasps
DrHankPym(superhero) 10 November, 2019 13:01
I think I'm somewhere in between both view points. I don't we're playing that badly but we certainly not playing well. Basic on field decisions are costing us in matches.

I personally don't think we should have gone to the corner when we were only 7 points down on Sale. Kick the 3 points, get the ball back go up and field and try to win the game. Weirdly the opposite of what did when chasing the game against London Irish.

Granted the way were playing on Friday we probably wouldn't have won the game, but at least we would have guaranteed the losing bonus point. Whereas with the Irish game not only could we have got the win with a big more common sense, we'd also have got a 4 try bonus win.

If's and but's etc etc, yet we'd higher up the table and less griping going on. Regardless of whether Sarries get their point penalty reduced/overturned, I don't think we're in relegation dog fight.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: International level v Wasps
Geewhiz50 10 November, 2019 17:05
Perhaps I am being a little pessimistic - but how many games do you really expect us to win on our current form - and that's ignoring our ability to gift points via penalties.

Re: International level v Wasps
DrHankPym(superhero) 10 November, 2019 17:13
Our next Prem game is away to Exeter, who will probably be back into their normal groove after Europe (helped by their returning RWC players). Logically speaking you'd have to write that one off, even though we did win there last season.

Then we play Quins on 21st Dec, which I think is very winnable game (they're in cr@p form too). Bristol away will be tricky, before we host Saints in the New Year.

I'll stick my neck out and say we're winning 2 or 3 of those next 4 games. That should leave us somewhere around mid table, which we have to build on for late Jan match at Worcester.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

Re: International level v Wasps
Matt82 10 November, 2019 20:41
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)
Our next Prem game is away to Exeter, who will probably be back into their normal groove after Europe (helped by their returning RWC players). Logically speaking you'd have to write that one off, even though we did win there last season.
Then we play Quins on 21st Dec, which I think is very winnable game (they're in cr@p form too). Bristol away will be tricky, before we host Saints in the New Year.

I'll stick my neck out and say we're winning 2 or 3 of those next 4 games. That should leave us somewhere around mid table, which we have to build on for late Jan match at Worcester.

We will win one of those games. We are pretty much at full strength. All of those teams are either in form or have a few players back from the WC. People need to wake up. Our form is dreadful over a long period of time and what are people seeing that the majority of us arent to suggest things are going to change?

Re: International level v Wasps
Shugs 10 November, 2019 21:16
Quote:
Matt82
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)
Our next Prem game is away to Exeter, who will probably be back into their normal groove after Europe (helped by their returning RWC players). Logically speaking you'd have to write that one off, even though we did win there last season.
Then we play Quinsy
on 21st Dec, which I think is very winnable game (they're in cr@p form too). Bristol away will be tricky, before we host Saints in the New Year.

I'll stick my neck out and say we're winning 2 or 3 of those next 4 games. That should leave us somewhere around mid table, which we have to build on for late Jan match at Worcester.

We will win one of those games. We are pretty much at full strength. All of those teams are either in form or have a few players back from the WC. People need to wake up. Our form is dreadful over a long period of time and what are people seeing that the majority of us arent to suggest things are going to change?
Matt, you keep quoting returning WC players. We have one of the best second rows in the league, one of the best sixes, one of the best sevens and a seriously in form wing to come back in.

Re: International level v Wasps
Geewhiz50 11 November, 2019 15:57
Can't disagree with you Shugs - but see my earlier comment, there is no cohesion or team work. We may have several talented players but we do not seem to have a team, and that is the difference. I do not see our current players performing like Bristol did yesterday based on performances last year and to date, and that has to be down to the coaching.

Changing the subject, Nathan appears to be back to his early Wasps form and enjoying his rugby - how come it disappeared whilst at Wasps?

I'm afraid I don't have your rose-coloured glasses, but I see Wasps as relegation fodder unless matters change PDQ.

Re: International level v Wasps
Andy1210 11 November, 2019 23:27
Quote:
Geewhiz50
Changing the subject, Nathan appears to be back to his early Wasps form and enjoying his rugby - how come it disappeared whilst at Wasps.

Coaches and culture.

Re: International level v Wasps
RossM 11 November, 2019 23:38
Changing the subject, Nathan appears to be back to his early Wasps form and enjoying his rugby - how come it disappeared whilst at Wasps?

It disappeared when he was with England.

Re: International level v Wasps
Shugs 12 November, 2019 20:13
Quote:
Andy1210
Quote:
Geewhiz50
Changing the subject, Nathan appears to be back to his early Wasps form and enjoying his rugby - how come it disappeared whilst at Wasps.

Coaches and culture.
More likely cash.


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