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We scored all the points last night
Discussion started by suffolkwasp , 09 November, 2019 16:44
We scored all the points last night
suffolkwasp 09 November, 2019 16:44
The penalties we gave away and the intercept try to Sale plus our own meant we did all the scoring.
The points lost there and the lost five points versus London Irish may well do for us.
Will Greenwood has marked us down already. The last minutes we had the position to score as we did even more so against Irish and we butchered it.

Re: We scored all the points last night
wombles222 09 November, 2019 17:25
Will Greenwood has a phenominal rugby brain I take his views very seriously, he was very nearly correct in the season when we were a Varndell tackle from going down and to the wall.

I have slept on last nights result and the opening 4 games of the season, whilst also considering our performances for the majority of last season, and to be fair it is not an unreasonable view to see us as relegation candidates.

We are a team with absolutely no identity with regards to how we play on the field, it all felt slow, stale, predictable and unambitious. We had two units (forwards and backs) working seperately and not connecting, it was clumsy. We have a defensive system that is impressing no-one and stopping even fewer and we are making poor decisions. We look a team that is dictated to rather than one that can take a game (and season) by the scruff of the neck and dictate matters ourselves.

I do think we have a squad that we can build from and slowly start to develop a new era, but I am not sure the coaching set up is working, and if we do not change this that could be the death knell to our season. Dai needs to move to DoR, we need to find a head coach, we need to remove our defensive coach and employ one that is premiership standard (Ours is a cracking championship level coach who cannot make the next step)...we also need to review our attacking strategy, however I wonder if that is an easier fix as so far we are playing more on the back foot than the front, but if you cannot win your scrum, set piece, gain line, dominate the collisions and secure quick ruck ball or maintain discipline your attack is irrelevant.

Unlike the season we nearly went down we have a squad that can do more, I just feel without a coaching shake up we will continue to struggle and fall, thus Greenwoods words will bear fruit!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2019 17:36 by wombles222.

Re: We scored all the points last night
DBee 09 November, 2019 18:00
I think we tried to get a senior coach in but no one wanted to work under Dai by the sounds of it. Edwards didnít and neither Borthwick. I think weíre still feeling the effect of Danny Wilson not coming last season. Itís hard to get really quality coaches. I do feel we have some class young players coming through who could be the backbone of the side for years to come. Cardell, Flament, Willis x2, Porter, Searle, Umaga, Spink etc....all young and hungry. Could be a great set up for a coach to take over and develop.

Whatís Borthwick doing now the World Cup is done? If there is a shake up we could do worse.

Re: We scored all the points last night
suffolkwasp 09 November, 2019 18:04
Worcester are playing well and beat Quinns away today. Not sure who we can beat.
Borthwick is already fixed up.

Re: We scored all the points last night
wombles222 09 November, 2019 18:14
On our performances to date we are not playing a brand of rugby that will beat many at all. 19 penalties last night were shocking, but the missed first up tackles were a killer. Dai stated clearly that we were running lateral lines and not going forward, he also noted that we played in the wrong areas of the field and made poor decisions when clear minds were needed.

I said at the start of the season top 6 and a run deep into the challenge cup should be our aim. I think we have the squad to do it, but unless we improve dramatically in key areas and the coaches inject life, dirrction and passion into all we do, or make some key changes in the coaching set upi have temporarily revised my prediction to simply finishing above 12th, and as someone who bleeds black and gold (sorry for stealing an analagy from our London Irish family) that hurts me to say!

Re: We scored all the points last night
Matt82 09 November, 2019 18:23
As I've said on other threads who is picking the coaching set up? If us as fans can see the coaching set up isn't right then how come the powers that be can't see it? Out of interest is Mr Richardson still attending games? It's been a while since I've seen him at the Ricoh. I admire the man greatly for what he has done as I admire Dai as a man. However if Mr Richardson doesn't want to continue losing out on his investment he needs to act quickly and do something.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Nomad_Wasp 09 November, 2019 19:26
Quote:
wombles222
On our performances to date we are not playing a brand of rugby that will beat many at all. 19 penalties last night were shocking, but the missed first up tackles were a killer. Dai stated clearly that we were running lateral lines and not going forward, he also noted that we played in the wrong areas of the field and made poor decisions when clear minds were needed.
I said at the start of the season top 6 and a run deep into the challenge cup should be our aim. I think we have the squad to do it, but unless we improve dramatically in key areas and the coaches inject life, dirrction and passion into all we do, or make some key changes in the coaching set upi have temporarily revised my prediction to simply finishing above 12th, and as someone who bleeds black and gold (sorry for stealing an analagy from our London Irish family) that hurts me to say!

We could of course read that as being that Quins are also in a bit of trouble

Re: We scored all the points last night
suffolkwasp 09 November, 2019 20:02
But Quins have Marler and Sinckler to return and cause scrum penalties . They may also have new World Cup people coming. We just have Joe.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Skippy 09 November, 2019 23:49
Iím a bit concerned about strength and conditioning. Watching the game last night, it appeared to me that Sops is carrying a few pounds that probably should not be there for a fly half (noted exceptions fro Andy Goode and Gareth Rees).

Re: We scored all the points last night
Andy1210 09 November, 2019 23:54
I think a lot of people saw this last season though. It was a real surprise to hear people talking about top six after last year with the coaches much the same but the playing squad weaker.

Take out the four wins from three games at the start of last season and we would have been fighting to stay up. As a yardstick we are now looking at Watson as a senior wing, when this time last season he was just not good enough to be anything than on the bench. And whatís happened to Bassett?

With marquee players just not showing up - Shields, Sopoaga for example, a rag tag bunch of second rate coaches and a tired old DoR with no motivational or organisational skills who is Emperor of the club, we are the full relegation package.

If nothing changes on the coaching side by the start of the New Year, I think we will be relegation favourites.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Shugs 10 November, 2019 10:00
Quote:
suffolkwasp
Worcester are playing well and beat Quinns away today. Not sure who we can beat.
Borthwick is already fixed up.
Bath?

Re: We scored all the points last night
Shugs 10 November, 2019 10:07
Can't pretend the first four games haven't been difficult but it is possible to view them in a different way. Irish and Sale. We should have won both games. Bath we did win. Glaws we were poor but we're in the game for a long time. So for me it's fine margins and we're not far away. If we can be more clinical and improve our discipline we can win plenty of games. I've already seen as many exciting moments this season as all of last. Our defence has improved and our scrum looks solid. Keep the faith.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Matt82 10 November, 2019 10:30
Quote:
Shugs
Can't pretend the first four games haven't been difficult but it is possible to view them in a different way. Irish and Sale. We should have won both games. Bath we did win. Glaws we were poor but we're in the game for a long time. So for me it's fine margins and we're not far away. If we can be more clinical and improve our discipline we can win plenty of games. I've already seen as many exciting moments this season as all of last. Our defence has improved and our scrum looks solid. Keep the faith.

Shugs you need to wake up mate. We lost at home to a team who have just come up WITHOUT big name signings. We conceded 4 tries to Glos on a bog. Can you imagine if it was firm ground what the score would have been like? If Bath had gone over for a try last week when we conceded a penalty and they took 3 we would have been dead and buried in that game. Smell the coffee Shugs if this coaching unit is in place come the end of the season the best we'll finish is 8/9. Our attendances this season at home are already a third down. Club won't survive on those number drops.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Ayerzawannabe 10 November, 2019 10:37
Quote:
Shugs
Quote:
suffolkwasp
Worcester are playing well and beat Quinns away today. Not sure who we can beat.
Borthwick is already fixed up.
Bath?

tigers head coach is the heavy rumours
With Murphy DOR/Backs Coach

Re: We scored all the points last night
Chris1850 10 November, 2019 10:57
Quote:
Matt82
Quote:
Shugs
Can't pretend the first four games haven't been difficult but it is possible to view them in a different way. Irish and Sale. We should have won both games. Bath we did win. Glaws we were poor but we're in the game for a long time. So for me it's fine margins and we're not far away. If we can be more clinical and improve our discipline we can win plenty of games. I've already seen as many exciting moments this season as all of last. Our defence has improved and our scrum looks solid. Keep the faith.

Shugs you need to wake up mate. We lost at home to a team who have just come up WITHOUT big name signings. We conceded 4 tries to Glos on a bog. Can you imagine if it was firm ground what the score would have been like? If Bath had gone over for a try last week when we conceded a penalty and they took 3 we would have been dead and buried in that game. Smell the coffee Shugs if this coaching unit is in place come the end of the season the best we'll finish is 8/9. Our attendances this season at home are already a third down. Club won't survive on those number drops.

Not sure why you 'should' have won on Friday either? Your discipline cost you big time and arguably should have cost you more. Du Preez missed 3 kicks he would ordinarily expect to nail. Foley was your extra man, particularly in the first half with a very debatable yellow card and the constant offsides you got away with. Some of which were so blatant they were truly embarrassing. He got absolutely no help from his linesman in front of the West Stand who was equally useless.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Brumwasp 10 November, 2019 10:58
The point about falling attendances is a very important one to consider, especially after the financial results were released this week.
Fans arenít going to flock back to watch unexciting, error ridden, losing rugby. Surely the people up top must see this, or maybe the cupboard is bare and weíre stuck with this coaching team.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Andy1210 10 November, 2019 11:00
Quote:
Matt82
Quote:
Shugs
Can't pretend the first four games haven't been difficult but it is possible to view them in a different way. Irish and Sale. We should have won both games. Bath we did win. Glaws we were poor but we're in the game for a long time. So for me it's fine margins and we're not far away. If we can be more clinical and improve our discipline we can win plenty of games. I've already seen as many exciting moments this season as all of last. Our defence has improved and our scrum looks solid. Keep the faith.

Shugs you need to wake up mate. We lost at home to a team who have just come up WITHOUT big name signings. We conceded 4 tries to Glos on a bog. Can you imagine if it was firm ground what the score would have been like? If Bath had gone over for a try last week when we conceded a penalty and they took 3 we would have been dead and buried in that game. Smell the coffee Shugs if this coaching unit is in place come the end of the season the best we'll finish is 8/9. Our attendances this season at home are already a third down. Club won't survive on those number drops.

Matt's right here Shugs. The reason you are using the word 'should' rather than 'did' answers your question. Lots of teams that have been relegated look back with 'should haves' and 'could haves' but ultimately games come down to managing the crucial pressure points that, however small, make a big difference to the score.

League competitions are tough and the real proving ground. You can win a cup competition with a little bit of luck, but there's no hiding place in 22 games over a year - the worst team will go down because they have been the worst team.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Shugs 10 November, 2019 11:27
Completely agree and I don't think we are that team. Only time will tell. Last year I was fearful as we were dragged down by a myriad of issues. This year I see better signs.

Re: We scored all the points last night
Hangover 10 November, 2019 12:05
Austin Healey summed a lot of things up in one comment for me on Friday night, because I was thinking the same thing and have stated it on here several times before.

He said ' why in the first two line outs of the game, did Wasps not put any pressure AT ALL on a hooker who has confidence issues with his throwing in'. That first line out should have been a nightmare for the Sale hooker with people jumping right in his face. I have been talking about this since Tom Croft destroyed the SA line out for the Lions gawd knows how many years ago. Oh and guess what, Luke Cowan-Dickie has the same problem but we never bother him either !

Then later on he picked up the point that once we won a scrum penalty and all the oppositions players were facing the wrong way. Our backs all went into congratulate the forwards rather than tapping the ball and attacking while they weren't looking.

We have 41 backroom staff !!! 10 of which directly coach and analyze for the first XV. What are these guys doing all week, have they got other jobs, because they don't seem to be watching what other teams are doing.

Why is Brad Shields going off after 50 ish minutes of each game. Without Launch he would seem to be the pack leader to me. Is he not fit, what is happening?

There is some talent in this current squad, but it is much more raw and untested than in previous years, therefore, it needs much much better coaching.

We need Launch back asap.

No one has got any control over this bunch of players and hasn't for years. Dai keeps coming out with the same statements about 'cherishing the ball, playing in the right areas, keeping the penalty count down and winning home games' but nothing ever changes. If Dai can't make them or the coaches do it, they or HE has to go.


I'm done for now, I hope we're not.


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