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The Rebuilding Phase
Discussion started by Happywasp , 30 November, 2019 18:52
The Rebuilding Phase
Happywasp 30 November, 2019 18:52
Itís time to alter expectations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 30/11/2019 20:55 by Happywasp.

Re: Young Out
Shugs 30 November, 2019 19:28
Utter nonsense. Did you see the game today? Can you see how Dai is bringing this squad to a sustainable position following a difficult move.

Re: Young Out
Buzzboy 30 November, 2019 19:39
I know this was Exeter away.. but same old story. We let a good position slip.

Re: Young Out
Harry the Wasp 30 November, 2019 19:40
Oh dear. Do we want this forum to descend into a football style one with gut reactions and ill informed opinions being spouted out once the game is finished? I hope not. I agree with Shugs.

Re: Young Out
Buzzboy 30 November, 2019 19:44
Quote:
Harry the Wasp
Oh dear. Do we want this forum to descend into a football style one with gut reactions and ill informed opinions being spouted out once the game is finished? I hope not. I agree with Shugs.

How is my opinion of same old story ill informed? Iíve seen the results of our last matches against decent teams...
And itís a forum to voice opinions, no?

Re: Young Out
kentwasp1 30 November, 2019 19:52
Quote:
Shugs
Utter nonsense. Did you see the game today? Can you see how Dai is bringing this squad to a sustainable position following a difficult move.

Shugs I didnít see the game today but we got eviscerated by a fellow premiership team if we have goals to be the best means we are massively off the pace.

As for a ďdifficult moveĒ I assume the move from Adams Park ? Years ago.? When the Wasps management told us great things were on the horizon and the ďbuilding for the futureĒ etc etc were important.

Dai has built and built and decent honourable man he is, we are not a challenging premiership side and not even anymore at the European top table

As for sustainable, we are a financial basket case with two consecutive years of double digit millions losses and in two years when we have to find £35 million to repay our bonds

Itís a sad sad situation as Elton would say, and no yellow brick road .

Re: Young Out
Shugs 30 November, 2019 20:01
Kent. Don't really want to revisit history but to paraphrase we had to move to survive and now have to change to survive, having secured a decent fan base of new, comitted fans. We can't underestimate how difficult that is to pull off. And yet today we saw a team with masses of home grown talent compete with the champions elect. What is the response - get rid of all the coaching team. Basically it's knee jerk naivety. I understand and feel the frustrations of a loss but we need to always see the bigger picture.

Re: Young Out
kentwasp1 30 November, 2019 20:36
Don't have an answer Shugs or I'd be DOR. Nor am I saying sack everyone - even Dai. Just commenting we moved to survive and now although the current bloated management of Wasps say we are ok, we are not. We are a second rate premiership side, no way challenging for a domestic title nor even on the competitive challenge of second division European rugby
When Wasps sold the £35m bonds to our current masters the story was of so different
The city we are beholden to is very unforgiving
Wasps have failed in the business plan and the reckoning will come
I sound like a broken record

Re: Young Out
Shugs 30 November, 2019 20:43
Quote:
kentwasp1
Don't have an answer Shugs or I'd be DOR. Nor am I saying sack everyone - even Dai. Just commenting we moved to survive and now although the current bloated management of Wasps say we are ok, we are not. We are a second rate premiership side, no way challenging for a domestic title nor even on the competitive challenge of second division European rugby
When Wasps sold the £35m bonds to our current masters the story was of so different
The city we are beholden to is very unforgiving
Wasps have failed in the business plan and the reckoning will come
I sound like a broken record
You don't sound like a broken record. Your worries are valid. I just think the move to Cov was a long term plan sold as a short term one. That was a necessary tale for the club to tell. The reality is we are now in the inevitable dip after the hype of the first few seasons. We are seeing youth products come through and we are moving to a more sustainable way of operating. Keep the faith Kent - we'll be cheering again soon.

Re: Young Out
Gaz 30 November, 2019 22:07
Quote:
Shugs
Kent. Don't really want to revisit history ...

You brought it up!

Re: Young Out
Shugs 30 November, 2019 22:19
Quote:
Gaz
Quote:
Shugs
Kent. Don't really want to revisit history ...

You brought it up!
Fair enough. Let's just assume that everyone can factor it into their opinions going forward and we need not mention it again.

Re: Young Out
PhilH 30 November, 2019 22:45
Quote:
kentwasp1
Don't have an answer Shugs or I'd be DOR. Nor am I saying sack everyone - even Dai. Just commenting we moved to survive and now although the current bloated management of Wasps say we are ok, we are not. We are a second rate premiership side, no way challenging for a domestic title nor even on the competitive challenge of second division European rugby
When Wasps sold the £35m bonds to our current masters the story was of so different
The city we are beholden to is very unforgiving
Wasps have failed in the business plan and the reckoning will come
I sound like a broken record

Pieces of vinyl everywhere!!

Re: Young Out
The Fumigator 01 December, 2019 00:05
Quote:
Harry the Wasp
Oh dear. Do we want this forum to descend into a football style one with gut reactions and ill informed opinions being spouted out once the game is finished? I hope not. I agree with Shugs.

Taking aside the usual sneering at football fans really what is the long term plan?

1. Crowds have been in steady decline as the Coventry public has lost interest and more of the London fans lose their connection to the side.

2. The teamís performance in the league has regressed almost year on year.

3. The new training facilities promised in 2014 have been repackaged 3 times with the latest idea being to evict community sports clubs from a local facility (sounds familiar actually).

4. The business is losing £10 million plus a year with a one off CVC injection preventing it this year.

5. The bond price has fallen 30%.

All the above has happened with the deck stacked in Waspsí favour from the start and the council bending over backwards to help. Itís an embarrassment and sooner or later the time will come to admit this was a failure and itís time to go home.

Re: Young Out
PhilH 01 December, 2019 00:16
Quote:
The Fumigator
Quote:
Harry the Wasp
Oh dear. Do we want this forum to descend into a football style one with gut reactions and ill informed opinions being spouted out once the game is finished? I hope not. I agree with Shugs.

Taking aside the usual sneering at football fans really what is the long term plan?

1. Crowds have been in steady decline as the Coventry public has lost interest and more of the London fans lose their connection to the side.

2. The teamís performance in the league has regressed almost year on year.

3. The new training facilities promised in 2014 have been repackaged 3 times with the latest idea being to evict community sports clubs from a local facility (sounds familiar actually).

4. The business is losing £10 million plus a year with a one off CVC injection preventing it this year.

5. The bond price has fallen 30%.

All the above has happened with the deck stacked in Waspsí favour from the start and the council bending over backwards to help. Itís an embarrassment and sooner or later the time will come to admit this was a failure and itís time to go home.

Not that I agree with much of the above but please explain why ďgoing homeĒ wherever you think that is would help the situation as you perceive it to be. Unless of course you are planning a strategy to buy the Ricoh at less than the market value .........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2019 00:18 by PhilH.

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
Worcswasp 01 December, 2019 08:30
Isnt Ricoh 'home'? There are things that can not be changed or are difficult to change but alot of us just want to see them perform again. This means some honesty from the coaching staff and players. My view is that change is now needed with head coach and 100 % defence coach with strong backround.

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
Matt82 01 December, 2019 08:48
Quote:
Worcswasp
Isnt Ricoh 'home'? There are things that can not be changed or are difficult to change but alot of us just want to see them perform again. This means some honesty from the coaching staff and players. My view is that change is now needed with head coach and 100 % defence coach with strong backround.

Agree. I've got no issue we might be in a re-building phase but from what we've seen these are not the coaches to be leading us through the transition period. Imo the best model would be for Dai to be DoR and a Head Coach under him who oversees the work on training ground. We have to do something to change this slide.

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
The Fumigator 01 December, 2019 09:45
Quote:
Worcswasp
Isnt Ricoh 'home'? There are things that can not be changed or are difficult to change but alot of us just want to see them perform again. This means some honesty from the coaching staff and players. My view is that change is now needed with head coach and 100 % defence coach with strong backround.

Someone elseís home one might say. The problems are not restricted to on field performance but the massive annual financial losses with a looming bond repayment donít bode well.

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
ukms 01 December, 2019 10:05
Quote:
The Fumigator
Quote:
Worcswasp
Isnt Ricoh 'home'? There are things that can not be changed or are difficult to change but alot of us just want to see them perform again. This means some honesty from the coaching staff and players. My view is that change is now needed with head coach and 100 % defence coach with strong backround.

Someone elseís home one might say. The problems are not restricted to on field performance but the massive annual financial losses with a looming bond repayment donít bode well.

So whoís home is it then ? ..... enlighten us all ? ..... you didnít answer the original question of where itís time for Wasps to go home to ? ....

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
Harry the Wasp 01 December, 2019 10:17
The Fumigator - no sneering at football fans Intended but the original title and post of this thread were altered two hours after posting to considerably alter the track of the discussion. Shugs and I were responding to a post titled "Youngs Out" not "The Rebuilding Phase". Subtle change there.

Re: The Rebuilding Phase
The Fumigator 01 December, 2019 10:40
Quote:
Harry the Wasp
The Fumigator - no sneering at football fans Intended but the original title and post of this thread were altered two hours after posting to considerably alter the track of the discussion. Shugs and I were responding to a post titled "Youngs Out" not "The Rebuilding Phase". Subtle change there.

ĎDo we really want this forum to descend into a football style one?í Hmm.

The broader picture of where Wasps are at as a club has direct relevance to the future of the head coach. It is losing money hand over fist and the vaunted new training facilities are still yet to materialise. True any manager can do better but itís a tough ask.

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