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To start an Argument..
Discussion started by greenwood , 13 February, 2020 08:24
To start an Argument..
greenwood 13 February, 2020 08:24
..Is not my intention, but..
Nearly all I've read over the last year or so is about Dai Young not being up to the job etc
He should go sooner than later. Get rid of him. Well past his sell by date.

Now He's going or Gone nearly all I'm reading is what a fantastic job he did, great for the club.
People have got their wish..Be careful with what they wished for.

Re: To start an Argument..
Petergwilson 13 February, 2020 08:29
Is this a 5 minute arguement or the full half hour ?

Re: To start an Argument..
greenwood 13 February, 2020 08:29
Er Just the 5 minute.

Re: To start an Argument..
Petergwilson 13 February, 2020 08:30
Good luck with that on here (Sm159)

Re: To start an Argument..
P T A W 13 February, 2020 09:02
Sure some people are keeping their own council until, it becomes clear as to Dais position.
Then Iím sure there may well be a few opposing views as to how good or how not so good Dai has been.

Re: To start an Argument..
WaspieMatt 13 February, 2020 09:46
Greenwood, have to agree with you!
I think some of the concern is more aimed at who has taken over as his Ďinterimí replacement. In other words we were possibly better off with Dai at the helm than we are with a coach who has presided over a misfiring back line for some time. But we do not know the circumstances of Daiís departure. Someone has to be in charge this weekend and there are too many options available form within the club at the moment. Time will tell what happens in the longer term. If Daiís departure (If indeed it is a departure) was unexpected then Iím sure the wheels will be in motion to try and get someone new in but appointing the right head coach/DOR might be a lengthy process. We may therefore have Blackett at the helm until the end of the season.

Re: To start an Argument..
Always a Great Ruck 13 February, 2020 10:24
The way I see it, Dai is Wasps through and through.

Gave money from his own pocket, relocated to the Midlands, put his job on the line to try and secure adequate playing funds.

A lot have been calling for his head, but I question whether many coaches could have better performances operating 1.5 million under the cap.

The reality is, very few know the true ins and outs of what is going on. So untill that becomes clear we should reserve judgement.

Re: To start an Argument..
EssexWasp 13 February, 2020 10:47
I'm interested in your £1.5m under the cap comment - source? Over on the glee club, certain posters seem certain we are at the cap!

Re: To start an Argument..
Gaz 13 February, 2020 11:14
I don't see what is so confusing. Dai has been fantastic for us over the years but you can't deny that things have gone stale over the last couple of years (for reasons unknown). Every ships runs its course.

Time to say thanks, but we need to freshen up and take a new approach. Even Dai looks shot to me. Looks like he could do with a break, and prepare for his next challenge.

Don't know why it is so difficult for people understand it is possible to hold those two positions.

Re: To start an Argument..
neils 13 February, 2020 11:45
You hit the nail on the head - "for reasons unknown". This applies to the current situation and what might have happened or been imposed. It will come out some day soon because they can't keep a lid on it for much longer.

Re: To start an Argument..
westwaleswasp 13 February, 2020 11:55
Something will break soon on this- hopefully something close to truth will emerge.

I don't like anything about the way this has been done regarding communications with fans.

I find it hard to judge Dai- we played some great stuff early on when we had Wade/Varndell - because we had no choice, but my suspicion is that he wants a style of rugby that I think will not be successful at the highest level- and I don't mean the "you score 4, we score more approach" of the Cipriani/Daly/Wade/Jimmy/WLR/Beale era. I mean the more prosaic and very erratic impression of Chiefs that our forwards are doing week on week now for some while and the predictable patterns that we repeat ad nauseam. How much of that is down to recruitment I don't know. When Tom Varndell was sidelined I wondered then about what Dai wanted us to do.
He was not a player you drop, and certainly not for an aging Losi, unless he was not fitting in to Dai's aims. It seemed odd- "the mystery of the missing TV" was one article here that summed it up.
It still feels odd today. Further comments about Danny- "you can say what you like about Danny, but he knew how to attack" or similar made me think "what is there to say about Danny, besides him being prone to brain fades". Was Dai hinting that his style of ten was not what he wanted?

When you sign a player you could get unlucky with injury like Vellacott (apologies for spelling), you could get a slow to start but scintillating player like WLR, or you could rarely get a near instant success, like Beale. Who signed Lima- the board, Dai? I did not think he was a good fit for us at ten, and nothing I have seen since changes my mind. It is not that he has been unlucky, or is a bad player, it is just that our way of playing did not need a player like him given our playing staff- at least at ten anyway, and it was always going to be hard to fit him in. That is what makes me wonder about what Dai wants us to play like- the recruitment we have made has been a bit patchy at the top end, and seems geared towards a different playing style, but again- who is making those recruitment choices? Has Dai tried to sign like for like replacements for guys like Daly, and been told "no"? Dai's comments regarding coaching last year- "the board have given me permission to ........" seemed almost pointed. When else have you heard a coach/dor speak like that? They normally say "we" or "us". How much influence does he have on that? It might be like football managers who ask for player X, get told its player Y or nobody and choose player X.

Back when we had injury crisis in the back row the board signed NC as an instant emergency cover, and he was super successful- Dai asked for him and got him. No sign of that these past 18 months, when our bones have been much barer than they were back then. Have the board looked at Shields, Lima and co and said - "we don't trust you"? Has the money just not been there? Have we regressed to financial difficulties? I think it won't be long before more is unearthed so that we can get more answers. The quietness of the contract negotiating part of the year is peculiar, although not especially worrying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2020 11:56 by westwaleswasp.

Re: To start an Argument..
P T A W 13 February, 2020 12:17
Quote:
EssexWasp
I'm interested in your £1.5m under the cap comment - source? Over on the glee club, certain posters seem certain we are at the cap!

Little bit in here from S Vaughn about the Wasps salary cap. Not sure if it helps or not.
[www.wasps.co.uk]

Re: To start an Argument..
Andy1210 13 February, 2020 12:40
Quote:
Gaz
I don't see what is so confusing. Dai has been fantastic for us over the years but you can't deny that things have gone stale over the last couple of years (for reasons unknown). Every ships runs its course.
Time to say thanks, but we need to freshen up and take a new approach. Even Dai looks shot to me. Looks like he could do with a break, and prepare for his next challenge.

Don't know why it is so difficult for people understand it is possible to hold those two positions.

Iím pretty much with this. Thereís a conflict here between Dai the person and DoR and what the club needs right now, but we donít have the full picture.

Thereís absolutely no doubt that Dai is an outstanding bloke and a true gentleman who epitomises all that is good about the game. A truly loyal and honourable man who has worked tirelessly for our club. Having seen a recent comment from him saying Ďeverybody knows how much Wasps means to meí you couldnít ask for more, and if he has had a bust up over being denied bringing in coaches or players Iím with him as thatís the thing we need.

The flip side is that because Dai has the qualities, heís been in the same job doing the same things for a long time. I think heís jaded and things have become stale, and there isnít much to inspire kicking around the club right now. Results were calling for a change somewhere along the line but events have conspired to bring forward something that was probably in the offing for this summer. Itís caught everybody out and moved very quickly, with the club scrambling to keep up.

I think we needed a change in DoR/Head coach, but was rather hoping there would be a role for Dai to move into so we could reward his loyalty and have a new coaching set up.

Re: To start an Argument..
bigfecker 13 February, 2020 15:07
The fact is that Wasps can not afford a top 'head coach' and to keep Dai, so one has to go.

The slide has been there for 2 years, if he goes, he has been given more than enough time to rectify the slide. The owners have backed him with expensive signings and the last few (apart from the 13) have not come off. We still have the same defensive problems, we have to fill a too big stadium and are losing money like water through a sieve.

Re: To start an Argument..
Neverwas 13 February, 2020 20:05
Have to agree with you Andy 1210, i have been tired of the level of criticism aimed at Dai on this site, due to the lack of respect, it has imho sunk to a low & unneccasary level, but the results show a change is required. I just wish this 'stepping back' could have been done with dignity, Dai deserves at least that.

Re: To start an Argument..
kentwasp1 13 February, 2020 20:15
Catching up after 3 days power out. Reading all this quickly - just what exactly is Dai's position?

He may need to go, may just turn us around, but a more genuine bloke you will never meet.

One day at Adams Park my son and I were having a munch and drink by the car park. Dai ambled into view, this was maybe 2 hours before KO, and came up for a natter. Son in awe and Dai happy to chat

Ok does not make him a top coach, but he's for me always a top man.

Lovely humble caring decent human

Re: To start an Argument..
Matt82 13 February, 2020 21:56
I've just watched Rugby Tonight. They are hinting at the model of a DoR and a Head Coach underneath. Worzel, King and Howley all mentioned as Head Coach. If that is the case surely Dai should be given the role as DoR. Firstly because he deserves it and having an upgrade on the coaching staff under him. Secondly surely if the finances are that bad we don't have the money to pay off Dai and appoint a new DoR and Head Coach.

Re: To start an Argument..
greenwood 19 February, 2020 14:11
Now He's going or Gone nearly all I'm reading is what a fantastic job he did, great for the club.
People have got their wish..Be careful with what they wished for.


I repeat what I said...

Re: To start an Argument..
neils 19 February, 2020 14:15
Quote:
greenwood
Now He's going or Gone nearly all I'm reading is what a fantastic job he did, great for the club.
People have got their wish..Be careful with what they wished for.


I repeat what I said...

Very much seconded.


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