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Football v Rugby
Discussion started by kentwasp1 , 05 April, 2020 08:22
Football v Rugby
kentwasp1 05 April, 2020 08:22
Premiership football Players refuse 30% pay cut as this would damage the NHS

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Premiership rugby 25% cuts in most clubs

Football salaries average around £5m or £100k a week

[www.statista.com]

Beggars belief

rest my case

Re: Football v Rugby
greenwood 05 April, 2020 09:09
Have the players refused it ?
Or was it The Union ?

Re: Football v Rugby
John Tee 05 April, 2020 09:36
not sure it is that simple. Lot more money in football of course but will wait and see hiw this transpires.

I really think the days of rugby taking any high ground over, say, football are long long gone.

Re: Football v Rugby
Worcswasp 05 April, 2020 15:23
I think the press on this for the football boys is a bad show. Everything else that has been going on ( how to conclude season, next season start date) has all been kept behind closed doors. We will all have payback at the end of this won't we?. But I'm afraid Rugby this season cant match football Im sad to say. Jones and his arrogance v Southgate and his humility. Saracens v Liverpool. Come on!

Re: Football v Rugby
kentwasp1 05 April, 2020 16:27
Quote:
John Tee
not sure it is that simple. Lot more money in football of course but will wait and see hiw this transpires.
I really think the days of rugby taking any high ground over, say, football are long long gone.

Er, footballers refuse 30% salary cut whilst on 100 times salary of rugby players (citing NHS would suffer). Many Rugby clubs and players take 25% pay cut.

Where is the argument for football losing the plot, again.

Re: Football v Rugby
SimonG19 05 April, 2020 16:48
Quote:
kentwasp1
Quote:
John Tee
not sure it is that simple. Lot more money in football of course but will wait and see hiw this transpires.
I really think the days of rugby taking any high ground over, say, football are long long gone.

Er, footballers refuse 30% salary cut whilst on 100 times salary of rugby players (citing NHS would suffer). Many Rugby clubs and players take 25% pay cut.

Where is the argument for football losing the plot, again.

You are perfectly right in this case KW but look at the wider picture (where six seasons of cheating buys how many trophies?) and any moral ground rugby had over football has long since been lost.

Re: Football v Rugby
westwaleswasp 05 April, 2020 17:01
Man City may have something to say about that....................
I mean saying Sarries v X, we could be comparing Man City (financial cheating for years) or Chelsea, or any number of other clubs who have had punishments handed out by UEFA. Not to mention the tolerance of far right hooliganism and racism, especially in the east of Europe, but really all over. I love football, but the football house is not in order, and I think Southgate would say so.

Re: Football v Rugby
wombles222 05 April, 2020 18:23
I am not going to compare rugby to football here, I agree we lost the moral high ground with the Saracens scandal, their systemic doping, long standing cheating and complete lack of contrition, apology and lack of transparancy. They are a huge blot on our game that will take many years to shake off!

However the actions of the premier league clubs, their owners and how they have taken money directly from the public purse rather than correctly cutting swaythes of wages from the coaching and playing budget is reprehensible. Their NHS excuse is abhorent and simply a reflection of greed and amorality that purveys football. I agree with Lineker that millionaires and the highest earners have a very active role to play here (would of been easier if previous and current governments worked harder at ensuring that those with the most contribute the most) but in this case it feels more that Lineker is putting out the "well he has done this" excuse that children use when caught doing wrong.

I have to admit modern football and the behaviour of players and others means that it is already held in very low regard, but the current actions and exposure of simple greed at everyone elses cost has plunged it even deeper into its evil quagmire.

Re: Football v Rugby
John Tee 05 April, 2020 18:27
FFP will get Man C if applicable...Chelsea got done and were punished by a transfer ban which was about right.

Not sure those transgressions were anywhere near the scandal that English rugby has undergone?

Re: Football v Rugby
SimonG19 06 April, 2020 11:49
Quote:
westwaleswasp
Man City may have something to say about that....................
I mean saying Sarries v X, we could be comparing Man City (financial cheating for years) or Chelsea, or any number of other clubs who have had punishments handed out by UEFA. Not to mention the tolerance of far right hooliganism and racism, especially in the east of Europe, but really all over. I love football, but the football house is not in order, and I think Southgate would say so.

Indeed so neither sport can claim the moral high ground.

Re: Football v Rugby
Andy1210 06 April, 2020 12:29
Quote:
wombles222
I am not going to compare rugby to football here, I agree we lost the moral high ground with the Saracens scandal, their systemic doping, long standing cheating and complete lack of contrition, apology and lack of transparancy. They are a huge blot on our game that will take many years to shake off!
However the actions of the premier league clubs, their owners and how they have taken money directly from the public purse rather than correctly cutting swaythes of wages from the coaching and playing budget is reprehensible. Their NHS excuse is abhorent and simply a reflection of greed and amorality that purveys football. I agree with Lineker that millionaires and the highest earners have a very active role to play here (would of been easier if previous and current governments worked harder at ensuring that those with the most contribute the most) but in this case it feels more that Lineker is putting out the "well he has done this" excuse that children use when caught doing wrong.

I have to admit modern football and the behaviour of players and others means that it is already held in very low regard, but the current actions and exposure of simple greed at everyone elses cost has plunged it even deeper into its evil quagmire.

Excellent post Wombles and totally agree. The footballers NHS excuse is scraping the barrel of morality and sickening during this whole Coronavirus nightmare, especially when across the country everyone else is making sacrifices,and we are seeing retired NHS staff coming out of retirement to put themselves in the front line - even costing some of them their lives.

It shows how detached football has come from reality - what on earth do they do with so much money anyway?

Re: Football v Rugby
Lwasp 06 April, 2020 14:45
Quote:
Andy1210
It shows how detached football has come from reality - what on earth do they do with so much money anyway?

Hire hookers for their house parties. Allegedly.

Re: Football v Rugby
John Tee 06 April, 2020 16:10
I think the League opposed it but players are more open to discussing it on a club basis.

Re: Football v Rugby
westwaleswasp 06 April, 2020 17:05
Quote:
John Tee
FFP will get Man C if applicable...Chelsea got done and were punished by a transfer ban which was about right.
Not sure those transgressions were anywhere near the scandal that English rugby has undergone?

Man C have cheated every bit as much as Sarries for me, if not quite as long, and the evidence is damning - the deliberate nature of the crime and attempts to obfuscate are ones that Nigel would be proud of, and they may yet get away with it. Admittedly it is the reverse of Sarries- cheating in Europe, rather than domestically, but the offence- spending more than they were allowed- is the same, and involves eye watering sums over, as a percentage of their allowed spend it is more than Sarries pc overspend.

If we are honest we have seen Barca and Real state subsidised too, deals off the books involving tens of millions of local money going into the club. The real stain is the racism, and ultras violence in Italy especially, where the punishments have been woefully inadequate across the game

I agree we have seen rugby's position irrevocably tarnished.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2020 17:06 by westwaleswasp.

Re: Football v Rugby
John Tee 06 April, 2020 17:48
Quote:
westwaleswasp
Quote:
John Tee
FFP will get Man C if applicable...Chelsea got done and were punished by a transfer ban which was about right.
Not sure those transgressions were anywhere near the scandal that English rugby has undergone?

Man C have cheated every bit as much as Sarries for me, if not quite as long, and the evidence is damning - the deliberate nature of the crime and attempts to obfuscate are ones that Nigel would be proud of, and they may yet get away with it. Admittedly it is the reverse of Sarries- cheating in Europe, rather than domestically, but the offence- spending more than they were allowed- is the same, and involves eye watering sums over, as a percentage of their allowed spend it is more than Sarries pc overspend.

If we are honest we have seen Barca and Real state subsidised too, deals off the books involving tens of millions of local money going into the club. The real stain is the racism, and ultras violence in Italy especially, where the punishments have been woefully inadequate across the game

I agree we have seen rugby's position irrevocably tarnished.

Imposed by Eufa, and they want to ban them from Euro comps so not a domestic issue.
I do think that Fair Plays rules are generally a good thing and have no problem with it being extended. I think Rugby should certainly adopt it but there is no central mechanism. The cap kind of achieves the same sort of thing but there is no limit to how much money a sugar daddy type can throw in. This does massively distort sustainabilty.
I tend to think they've picked on Man C...which is fine if theyvd broken the rules but cant get my head round why Barca, Real, PSG and some Italian clubs arent in the frame..?

The racism issue is a disgrace and why eufa havent dealt with it in any adequate shape or form is bewildering.
However, that is a social issue in those countries but i contend football fans would not tolerate a sport that has fundimental sporting cheats in the game, whereas some so called rugby fans almost condone it...and not necessarily from the club that were caught. Maybe many fans think everyone is at it....and if so, that is the real disgrace. imv.

Re: Football v Rugby
Dehuminiser 06 April, 2020 18:59
Quote:
kentwasp1
Premiership football Players refuse 30% pay cut as this would damage the NHS
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Premiership rugby 25% cuts in most clubs

Football salaries average around £5m or £100k a week

[www.statista.com]

Beggars belief

rest
my case

Isnít it the case though that the wage cuts in rugby are just savings to the clubs as they are on the brink? Itís likely the players in football will agree a deal but donít want the clubs to actually save money but out the cash to the NHS.

I donít think this is the case in rugby where the pressures are down to economic realities of the teams

Re: Football v Rugby
HoboAl 06 April, 2020 21:28
Quote:
kentwasp1
Quote:
John Tee
not sure it is that simple. Lot more money in football of course but will wait and see hiw this transpires.
I really think the days of rugby taking any high ground over, say, football are long long gone.

Er, footballers refuse 30% salary cut whilst on 100 times salary of rugby players (citing NHS would suffer). Many Rugby clubs and players take 25% pay cut.

Where is the argument for football losing the plot, again.

That is grasping at pne leg of the beast. The reality they are not fighting a thirty percent pay cut....but they dont want that thirty per cent disapearing into a financial black hole. They want to see where thieir money is going; like the NHS, none playing staff at clubs, lower league clubs and non league clubs.

But it suites tbe media to skew the reality and suites some one eyed rugby fans to jump all over it.

Re: Football v Rugby
westwaleswasp 07 April, 2020 16:21
Certainly true that racism is a social issue in those countries, I don't feel they have had it policed enough by the authorities.

Rugby still wins out over football in that you can generally take a young girl to an away fixture and sit with opposition fans, but in soccer, you just wouldn't. 90% of all chants are not socially acceptable in polite company, the tribal nature of football generates stuff such as fans delighting in death (see Swansea and Cardiff
[news.bbc.co.uk]
and
[fanbanter.co.uk]). There are hundreds of other examples- hissing at Spurs, Munich chants, etc., the people who do it are a waste of oxygen who over step the mark, but when the acceptable mark is humorous chants about how the opponents are jobless/ are cnuts/kiddy fiddlers etc. what do you expect?
It is not socially acceptable to tell the opposition fans to f*** off, and people would have to be pretty thick not to get that, but that is the accepted culture. In the same way that on field in Rugby you can have no issue saying whatever to the opposition during the game (not to the ref, of course) or leaving a boot in where it shouldn't (we have all had it happen to us, probably in both sports), but you would not do it in Debenhams- it is all about accepted standards and public/private and football fans have had the bar set the far too low, so that is why it loses out for me. I love the sport and coach/ref it at and after school, I am in many ways a football man, but my daughter comes with me over the country watching rugby or cricket, not football.


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