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Saracens salary cap investigation
Discussion started by Florida , 03 September, 2019 08:00
Saracens salary cap investigation
Florida 03 September, 2019 08:00
Sarries salary cap review has been transferred to an independent panel. According to the daily mail (terrible paper, but their rugby journo is pretty decent) the reasons for escalating can be for one of the following; salary cap manager is of reasonable opinion there's been a breach of 350k or more, there's an overrun of less than 350k and the club opts for it to be dealt with by the panel or there's a dispute over the regulations themselves.

No indication of which it is at this point, nor when we can expect a resolution.

For the full story [www.dailymail.co.uk]

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
HMRH 03 September, 2019 08:56
If Saracens escape punishment, it will kill the salary cap

[www.thetimes.co.uk]

I think basically all outcomes are possible but the time is drawing nigh. It痴 ridiculous that with 3 weeks to go there has been no decision. Cynically I suspect Saracens will be found not to be in breach which explains the delay as they値l want to leave as little room as possible - Wray would litigate I知 not sure the other clubs will. If they池e not in breach a) I hope we have deep pockets and b) Brexit regulations notwithstanding that値l see a raft of SH players heading north

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
Florida 03 September, 2019 09:15
Not read the times one due to being behind a paywall, but, to state if they escape punishment seems rather incredulous to me. They are currently under investigation, until that investigation is complete there can be no expectation of punishment. Surely they remain innocent unless the investigation proves otherwise?

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
GHA 03 September, 2019 09:23
Or they'll just get a fine, so pay more for paying too much

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
HMRH 03 September, 2019 09:23
I understand your point but need to read the article in full for context. Slots point is that if the way Saracens have created these companies is within the cap and the regulations the. Everyone will do it and the cap will be a pointless figure as clubs will spend up to it and then use vehicles like the joint ventures to pay maker money to players. Effectively there would be no limit.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
Florida 03 September, 2019 09:43
Quote:
HMRH
I understand your point but need to read the article in full for context. Slots point is that if the way Saracens have created these companies is within the cap and the regulations the. Everyone will do it and the cap will be a pointless figure as clubs will spend up to it and then use vehicles like the joint ventures to pay maker money to players. Effectively there would be no limit.

Ah, I see. If it is within the regulations AND Sarries are using them to subsidise paying lower salaries then the regulations would need to be changed.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
HMRH 03 September, 2019 10:02
Yes exactly that

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
LI Bohemian 03 September, 2019 19:50
It's a loop hole that is within the rules but outside the nature of why a salary cap exists, I think the cap is generally good for rugby, the same as my belief that religation should exist. Sarries are the tail that wags the dog now, they have worked hard to get to where they are and can only consolidate this position from now on, making winning the league a distant dream now for most teams, the same as in relegation the problem is that the gap is too wide to make the leap from Championship regular to Premiership regular, I know some will counter with Exeter but it appears to be the only exception.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
x_ile 04 September, 2019 14:14
I've asked question before.

What is the point of a competition where one participant is so superior to the rest that the only question is how great the winnng margin will be?

The playing field needs to be level (to coin a phrase).

All teams surely work hard, so have Sarries actually worked that much harder to get where they are or is it that they have got there, at least in part, by utilising various allegedly questionable financial practices as implied by the mere existence of the ongoing salary cap investigation.
There will undoubtedly be vigorous claims that nothing has been done which breaks any rules. But, then again, this is the regular claim made by those indulging in sharp practices when they are caught at it.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
SimonG19 04 September, 2019 14:46
Quote:
x_ile
I've asked question before.
What is the point of a competition where one participant is so superior to the rest that the only question is how great the winnng margin will be?

The playing field needs to be level (to coin a phrase).

All teams surely work hard, so have Sarries actually worked that much harder to get where they are or is it that they have got there, at least in part, by utilising various allegedly questionable financial practices as implied by the mere existence of the ongoing salary cap investigation.
There will undoubtedly be vigorous claims that nothing has been done which breaks any rules. But, then again, this is the regular claim made by those indulging in sharp practices when they are caught at it.

Well the last time Saracens were investigated they paid a settlement fee to end the investigation and stop the report being published.

Would you pay money to bury a report that says you did nothing wrong?

I think your question is answered.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
tatthecraic2 04 September, 2019 16:22
Not to over simplify things.

But don't Saracens basically:-

Pay a wage within the salary cap
Create a company with the higher paid player
Purchase a property (say 600k for a three year contract that basically adds adds 200k a year into the players income) and pay dividends through said company which boosts income and reduces tax for the player to eventually reach the salary expectation the player has?

It would be nearly impossible to stop that happening as it's basically 'outside' of rugby... how can you put control on busineses set up by people inside of rugby for outside of rugby operations so to speak...

It's a @#$%&.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
Florida 04 September, 2019 19:01
Quote:
tatthecraic2
Not to over simplify things.
But don't Saracens basically:-

Pay a wage within the salary cap
Create a company with the higher paid player
Purchase a property (say 600k for a three year contract that basically adds adds 200k a year into the players income) and pay dividends through said company which boosts income and reduces tax for the player to eventually reach the salary expectation the player has?

It would be nearly impossible to stop that happening as it's basically 'outside' of rugby... how can you put control on busineses set up by people inside of rugby for outside of rugby operations so to speak...

It's a @#$%&.

You're making an assumption that players aren't putting their own money into these businesses and also Sarries / Wray are putting in more money than they get out and are using it purely as a vehicle to pay players more.

I'm not saying that's not the case, but at this stage we simply don't know.

It could of course just be that Sarries are assisting their players with starting businesses.

Is having sound financial advice / business help and support an incentive to join / stay at a club? Absolutely it is. Mind you, so is winning silverware and also having world class training facilities.

Re: Saracens salary cap investigation
tatthecraic2 04 September, 2019 20:49
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
tatthecraic2
Not to over simplify things.
But don't Saracens basically:-

Pay a wage within the salary cap
Create a company with the higher paid player
Purchase a property (say 600k for a three year contract that basically adds adds 200k a year into the players income) and pay dividends through said company which boosts income and reduces tax for the player to eventually reach the salary expectation the player has?

It would be nearly impossible to stop that happening as it's basically 'outside' of rugby... how can you put control on busineses set up by people inside of rugby for outside of rugby operations so to speak...

It's a @#$%&.

You're making an assumption that players aren't putting their own money into these businesses and also Sarries / Wray are putting in more money than they get out and are using it purely as a vehicle to pay players more.

I'm not saying that's not the case, but at this stage we simply don't know.

It could of course just be that Sarries are assisting their players with starting businesses.

Is having sound financial advice / business help and support an incentive to join / stay at a club? Absolutely it is. Mind you, so is winning silverware and also having world class training facilities.

It is an assumption but from listening to the rugby Pod, The 'jokes' made by Jim Hamilton are quite revealing when he was discussing the first round of investigations


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