Quote:FrTed
..... and they will still finish above LI
Quote:HMRH
They’ll have to be within the cap I assume so will have to either offload players or reduce their wages - players will have to be released I imagine to stay within cap
Feel for the supporters and players
Quote:They believed they were within the rules - Wray kept telling them that.
Quote:HMRH
They’ll have to drop players to stay in the cap this season regardless of outcome of the appeal
Quote:paulm1953
It wont happen. Saracens will appeal.
Quote:GHA
It also isn't the end of the world to win four or five Premierships and three Heineken Cups and then spend one season finishing 10th...
Quote:LI Bohemian
Former Saracens skipper Kyran Bracken called the punishments "very unfair", saying the club had "nurtured" their own players rather than "buying success".
Quote:HMRH
As they are over the cap now why should they be allowed any points accumulated this season?
Quote:M51
I am guessing the shed will be in full voice on Saturday. Will be an interesting match!
Quote:GHA
Yep, Billy made 41 appearances for Wasps. Mako made 40 appearances for Bristol, and Owen was signed indirectly from Wigan Rugby League?
Quote:GHA
You can't take away each night of celebration though, can you? The elation, emotion, all that comes with it... supporters don't care all that much from historical records they care more for what they were able to witness, live through etc
Quote:HMRH
Has Nigel Wray lost it? Investments in property are a risk so shouldn’t be seen as a guarantee like a salary?
On top of that argument seems to be that those “investments” were made at start of contract so not included in current seasons cap so they don’t have to reduce players or payments this season - the longer this goes on the worse it gets.
Quote:LI Bohemian
Have missed the pedantry, what's the view like?
Both Vinapola brothers joint Sarries the age of 21 owen when he was 17 I know that's not young in your book but it is in mine, and to nurture is to make and guide to get better, I think they have, but I suppose it's better to not get the gist of what I'm saying and be smug on a couple of Googled details.
I'm sorry and now know that to be young nurtured talent in the eyes on the MB you have to be born in a sarries shirt, point taken, at least on this side.
Awaiting pithy reply
Quote:No, I want you to grow up.GHA
I'm not calling this one interation harassing nonsensical bullshit, I'm adding this to the pile of other messages he's directed at me. Want me to list them?
Quote:GHA
I'm the one who was playing nicely,
Quote:GHA
if you went back through the thread and had a look. He obviously didn't like the point I made about Mako and Billy spending almost three seasons at other clubs before Sarries so decided to spout@#$%&at me - I genuinely can't believe you're ignoring that. Or maybe you haven't actually been keeping up with the thread ...
Quote:GHAQuote:LI Bohemian
Have missed the pedantry, what's the view like?
Both Vinapola brothers joint Sarries the age of 21 owen when he was 17 I know that's not young in your book but it is in mine, and to nurture is to make and guide to get better, I think they have, but I suppose it's better to not get the gist of what I'm saying and be smug on a couple of Googled details.
I'm sorry and now know that to be young nurtured talent in the eyes on the MB you have to be born in a sarries shirt, point taken, at least on this side.
Awaiting pithy reply
I've missed your harassing nonsensical bullsh*t. Griff have a word please?
Agree NMB, Baxter came across well and seemed at pains to say Exeter may've lost to another team in the final so it's not simply a case of giving them the trophy instead.
Simon, disallowed tries are disallowed there and then. Lance Armstrong is a diabolical cheating scumbag and a disgrace and all sorts but he enjoyed the wins at the time and presumably celebtrated long and hard into the night, and I imagine wouldn't change those victories for anything, regardless of what the history books now say. It's the 'day out in the sun' thing, Sarries fans have had their big days out in the sun (over and over again) so to wipe the trophy from the record books is wiping it from the record books alone. Maybe agree to disagree, it's not our situation to worry about! As someone else said it seems like Saracens fans are taking the delusional way out anyway!
Quote:GHA
Nor did they send a representative for the Heineken Cup launch event today
Maybe they haven't paid their phone bill?
Quote:GHA
Wasn't there a podcast a while back where Care and Monye said it was a long-planned thing, they didn't buy the blood capsules the night before the game they'd been in the medical bag for quite a while?
Going off on a bit of a tangent here, apologies
Quote:Griff
I don't think there are any doubts. Sarries salaries clearly sit in the cap (no, me neither, but they have to be or that would've bee highlighted too).
The problem was the shared-companies that NW had set-up with certain players. They've now stopped doing those so they're under the cap.
Quote:Ecksile
But they are still relevant. Unless NW has turned to the players concerned and said "sorry guys, we can no longer offer this investment. So with regret we will have to reduce your salary by £100k, £150k (or whatever)"
Can't see contracted players being very happy with that situation. If the investments are liquidated that must be added to the salary cap figures.
How then can everything be ok moving forward, nothing seems to have changed for this season?
ps Wonder if the rest of the squad were aware of these investments? May be some unhappy people out there?
Quote:Griff
I don't think there are any doubts. Sarries salaries clearly sit in the cap (no, me neither, but they have to be or that would've bee highlighted too). ...
Quote:SimonG19
I'm afraid that's not correct as the recent investigation didn't include this season.
Quote:HMRH
Now England are worried that Sarries players will play for club over country so the only non-losers are Saracens! I’d like to be amazed that the report won’t be published but I’m not . If that group of players are under the cap for this year Surely it helps if everyone knows that is all within the cap via evidence although PRL say they are.
Quote:ExiledChameleon
If you put club over country then that is up to you, but you shouldn't be able to pick and choose. If any $aracens players put club over country I hope that they never appear for England again.
Quote:GriffQuote:SimonG19
I'm afraid that's not correct as the recent investigation didn't include this season.
From the reports I've seen Saracens salary payments fit into the cap. If you have a source of other information I'm sure we (and PRL) would love to see it. All the reports I've read about this say that it was only the shared-companies that was an issue (and I very much agree that this was cheating and if NW thought it would be legal then he's very naive).
Unless you're saying that Sarries have taken-on a larger salary burden this season? I can't say I've paid particular attention to their retention and hiring but I can't think of that big an incomer. Daly was probably their big acquisition but they also lost a few big names. Sure, I have the same incredulity that they can retain all those names and remain under the cap but they apparently did so for all three of the years for which they were punished so it seems they do.
I can't be the only one who thinks it would be incredibly foolish of Saracens to knowingly increase their salary commitments over the cap in the year after they're handed a penalty?