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Lost for words
Discussion started by irishboy_1995 , 06 March, 2020 22:13
Lost for words
irishboy_1995 06 March, 2020 22:13
I don't get this team at all sometimes I think we are progressing nicely and the next I think we are that London Welsh team from a few years back, Any team who is spending up to the cap shouldn't be getting humiliated like that, obviously we've got alot of talented players but theres alot of rubbish in that squad too I hope K+K are working hard on transfers because this squad needs a big refreshing

Re: Lost for words
ExiledChameleon 06 March, 2020 22:20
We play best with Blair Cowan at scrum half.

Re: Lost for words
Ruckingood 06 March, 2020 22:22
Wow.. three in a row.. a poor game today and its bathwater and the baby down the drain. We lacked drive today and had some third stringers out there due to last minute changes. There were some poor performances accross the board but i would suggest that whilst draining the tub, take little Johnny out first

Re: Lost for words
irishboy_1995 06 March, 2020 22:27
Quote:
Ruckingood
Wow.. three in a row.. a poor game today and its bathwater and the baby down the drain. We lacked drive today and had some third stringers out there due to last minute changes. There were some poor performances accross the board but i would suggest that whilst draining the tub, take little Johnny out first

Sale home
Woreceter away
Exeter home
Sale away
Bath home
Last week
Scarlets home
All pathetic performances

I must wash alot.

Re: Lost for words
Ruckingood 06 March, 2020 22:37
Thats what I love about u ... positive and upbeat.. defiantly should be the coach.. its been a mixed season with highs and lows.. regarding your ablution habits.. I dread to think.

Re: Lost for words
Tom1215 06 March, 2020 22:40
At least Worcester lost tonight as well.
Get Jackson back in the squad for the Bath game then maybe a week or 2 have him starting.
Naholo OHC and loader as our back 3.
Tuisue OíBrien Cowan as our starting back row.
Hopefully they will all be fit and ready for bath.
Oh and get Coleman back in and give him the captaincy.

Re: Lost for words
olw131 06 March, 2020 23:01
Calm down.

Sale away is a bogey ground for us, we always lose there (and badly).

Was always going to be difficult with Coleman and Kepu out, and we would have still been on even terms at HT had it not been for 2 bad passes.

I thought Donnell played really well and more than held his own, and OíBrien really put himself about while he was on - indeed we collapsed after he went off.

Meehan also wasnít nearly as bad as others have suggested, played well until he was shunted to 10. Didnít get to see why Myler went off...?

Re: Lost for words
Florida 06 March, 2020 23:02
Quote:
Tom1215
At least Worcester lost tonight as well.
Get Jackson back in the squad for the Bath game then maybe a week or 2 have him starting.
Naholo OHC and loader as our back 3.
Tuisue OíBrien Cowan as our starting back row.
Hopefully they will all be fit and ready for bath.
Oh and get Coleman back in and give him the captaincy.

Wait, why are we giving Coleman the captaincy? He's a cracking player but he annoys the vast majority of refs, you hear them on their mic telling him off most games. That's not what we want in a captain.

Also don't expect to see him for the next couple of weeks, he's just welcomed his second kid into the world.

Re: Lost for words
cjm. 06 March, 2020 23:05
"Meehan also wasnít nearly as bad as others have suggested"

He really was. What was that quick tap penalty all about.

I would give Scott Steele a chance again.

Re: Lost for words
Tom1215 06 March, 2020 23:13
Because of the huge impact you can see Coleman makes on the pitch, well if heís captain he will be just be talking to the ref.
Biggar, sexton and alun wyn Jones do it.

Re: Lost for words
irishboy_1995 06 March, 2020 23:20
Quote:
cjm.
"Meehan also wasnít nearly as bad as others have suggested"
He really was. What was that quick tap penalty all about.

I would give Scott Steele a chance again.

Tapping a penalty from his own 22 just ridiculous

Re: Lost for words
Florida 06 March, 2020 23:22
Didn't Blair do the same?

Re: Lost for words
Tom1215 06 March, 2020 23:28
Tbf on reflection and looking at Sales squad I wouldnít be surprised if they win the Prem this year. Which makes the defeat less painful. They do have world class talent across the board, which we are starting to build from the bottom up.
Donít get me wrong we were terrible tonight.

Re: Lost for words
Florida 06 March, 2020 23:37
Our game plan was atrocious.

That said, for 38 minutes of the first half our defense was excellent. It was only let down by two loose passes. Sale are a good side going forward but for those 38 minutes we made them look quite ordinary. They couldn't even get an advantage when they had clear scrum dominance.

We've got a good week off now so it's time to reflect on what went wrong and reset.

Re: Lost for words
ExiledChameleon 07 March, 2020 01:47
Up until 50-60ish minutes it was a very frustrating performance with us seemingly opting out of phase play and gifting them a couple tries but fixable. After that it became utterly diabolical.

Re: Lost for words
irishboy_1995 07 March, 2020 04:02
Quote:
Tom1215
Tbf on reflection and looking at Sales squad I wouldnít be surprised if they win the Prem this year. Which makes the defeat less painful. They do have world class talent across the board, which we are starting to build from the bottom up.
Donít get me wrong we were terrible tonight.

"We are starting to build from the bottom up" We've signed

Dell
Kepu
Coleman
Botha
Mafi
O'Brien
Phipps
Jackson
Rona
Naholo

Add in the likes of top young talent like Loader and Hassell Collins and we are not building from the bottom up at all and we certainly shouldnt be getting spanked 39-0 by anyone, you cant say we havent invested we just spend money like a @#$%& up lottery winner look at the way Exeter and Sale recruit its phonemal we just throw money at names as proven by the injuries and unavailability of the players above and hope that they come. Dont be surprised if we sign an over the hill Sergio Parisse to put bums on seats at Brentford other clubs are genuinely building we just seem to be taking expensive short cuts its depressing

Re: Lost for words
Tom1215 07 March, 2020 04:51
When did I say we havenít invested? We clearly have and thatís the reason why because we are rebuilding from the years of spending way under the limit to now signing international standard players as we rebuild.

Bristol last season lost against Worcester 52-7 away and lost against them at home.
Clearly that first year back is all about staying up now matter what which weíve luckily been guaranteed.
Next season will be the main goal of pushing on and challenge for top 6, this season is clearly all about getting settled back into premiership rugby. A result like that is Always gunna happen we wonít be perfect every game it just wonít happen.

Re: Lost for words
Nick4219 07 March, 2020 06:44
Disappointing yes, end of the world? No!

Coming off a 5 day quick turnaround and having 2 starters withdrawn just before kick off doesnít help, the plans for the game would have had to change losing Colemanís line out and all round threat and Kepu.

We are still in a good league position and this could be the shock that wakes up a few of the squad players who need it.

Have a break, hopefully we can see Nahalo and Jackson come back to full fitness and go again in 2 weeks.

Re: Lost for words
NMB 07 March, 2020 07:13
Bristol, saracens, wasps, Northampton and Leicester have all been absolutely spanked in this league one week and then perform completely differently the next.

If you're not feeling it you can get absolutely turned over in this league. I'd imagine that a friday night in Manchester after a 5 day turn around and with two late withdrawals it might of been one of those times for LI

Not pleasant but it happens.

Re: Lost for words
Gazzle 07 March, 2020 08:06
The late withdrawals make a difference. We had the same for the Bath game (Coleman or Botha forget which). 5 day turnarounds are hard in such a tough sport as well. Need to be realistic. Hope we have a fit fly half for the next game.

Re: Lost for words
tatthecraic2 07 March, 2020 09:11
Need some really heavy hitter props.

We have got pumped 2 weeks in a row in the scrum

We need to make contestable kicks. Our kicks are too long and no one is there to meet the catcher and put them under pressure.

We need to get rid of Motu. I'm sure he takes a international level salary and I'm sorry but hes been list been bad for us - Hes been god awful between bans.

Apart from that. If I look back at the game the 5 day turn around and some 3dd stringers were never going to get the result.

Donnell is great but he was heavily bullied. Stile one maul very nicely bit spent the day missing tackles and getting physically dominated.

Just need some brains ar times. 50/50 offload killed us.

Re: Lost for words
Gazzle 07 March, 2020 09:43
Quote:
tatthecraic2
Need some really heavy hitter props.
We have got pumped 2 weeks in a row in the scrum

We need to make contestable kicks. Our kicks are too long and no one is there to meet the catcher and put them under pressure.

We need to get rid of Motu. I'm sure he takes a international level salary and I'm sorry but hes been list been bad for us - Hes been god awful between bans.

Apart from that. If I look back at the game the 5 day turn around and some 3dd stringers were never going to get the result.

Donnell is great but he was heavily bullied. Stile one maul very nicely bit spent the day missing tackles and getting physically dominated.

Just need some brains ar times. 50/50 offload killed us.

I know where you're coming from with Motu. However, he quietly had a very good game against Gloucester coming in as a late starter, and he deserves a lot of credit for that. I thought losing Porecki could have lost us that game, but I was very pleasantly surprised with his lineout throwing and all round game, and he would have been my MOM were it not for OHC. Thought it needed saying. (He might have been awful last night for all I know, but sounds like that applies to the team generally.)

Re: Lost for words
irishboy_1995 07 March, 2020 10:20
Quote:
Tom1215
When did I say we havenít invested? We clearly have and thatís the reason why because we are rebuilding from the years of spending way under the limit to now signing international standard players as we rebuild.
Bristol last season lost against Worcester 52-7 away and lost against them at home.
Clearly that first year back is all about staying up now matter what which weíve luckily been guaranteed.
Next season will be the main goal of pushing on and challenge for top 6, this season is clearly all about getting settled back into premiership rugby. A result like that is Always gunna happen we wonít be perfect every game it just wonít happen.

Bristol were pumped once we've been pumped alot just this season
Bristol play far far better rugby than us and have a clear plan of where they want to get too
Bristol's coaching staff is miles better than ours
Bristol's recruitment is better than ours

I dont get the bristol comparison to be honest?

Re: Lost for words
simo112 07 March, 2020 11:00
Please no. We need to move on from Steele

Re: Lost for words
cjm. 07 March, 2020 11:05
Quote:
simo112
Please no. We need to move on from Steele

I would argue we haven't though, that's the problem. And from my recall, he wasn't THAT bad.

Re: Lost for words
NickK 07 March, 2020 11:25
I think the point was made earlier that some loose passes widened the points gap early on last night leaving the 2nd half momentum fully with Sale. These are avoidable issues, 5-day turnaround and late changes to the starting line up or not. Sale are Premiership contenders, Friday night at their home maybe not our favourite fixture, but was that really a good representation of our talent?

Re: Lost for words
olw131 07 March, 2020 12:21
With respect Irishboy, you are deluded, and could probably do with lowering your expectations a little for a newly promoted team...itíll be easier on you.

Re: Lost for words
BaltiBoy 07 March, 2020 12:44
Quote:
tatthecraic2
Need some really heavy hitter props.

^This

Lose your scrum and its basically game over.

It's all well and good having mobile props but we need some strong gnarly props that are going to provide a solid platform for our backs at scrum time.

A couple of big, hard South African props in the mould of Rautenbach would do very nicely!



Cheers & Beers
BB

Re: Lost for words
shimmieandshake 07 March, 2020 14:27
There's a small crowd on here who overreact to both wins and losses, but especially the losses. Wasn't great last night, but not the end of the world.

Scrum struggled after late Kepu drop out (and difficult five-day turnaround), Coleman was a big loss and we were two interceptions down at half time. Matu'u's so avoidable - there was no reward for it, with Mafi outside and defensive cover - and Meehan's could have easily been a penalty our way. Chasing the game made it look uglier than it was.

RE: scrums, you also have to remember Elrington played 75 mins on Sunday after DHA had an HIA pretty much immediately after coming on. He also put in a massive shift against Wasps. Any prop in the league would struggle in the circumstances.

I thought our defence stood up well, was great to see SOB get a run out (never thought I'd see the moment, and he looked good) and love the way Donnell's developing. Tough fixture, Sale's defence was excellent, I still think we have a shot at Top 6.

Only other thought is that I think Albert needs a rest. He's played an insane amount given how physical he is, and think there have been noticeably less line and tackle breaks in the last month or two.

Re: Lost for words
x_ile 07 March, 2020 15:03
It would seem that lack of consistency is a major issue. From both supporters and team.

One week , the team produces an excellent performance then a week later, disaster. Likewise, as observed above, some supporters rate players as near world class then a week later those same players are deemed barely worthy of championship journeyman status. Who in his right mind would be a pro rugby player (or even a supporter} ???? (Sm164)

Re: Lost for words
Shawshank 07 March, 2020 15:30
Bristol last year also were a bit hit and miss, so Iím not overly concerned about yesterday.

Would much rather us still try to play positively and have a balance of a few drubbings with some good wins, rather than be conservative the whole time and end up consistently having narrow losses.

Bath away will be tough but then we can re-set against Saints on St Pats.

Re: Lost for words
NMB 07 March, 2020 16:34
Bath are a good team, especially at home. Exeter have just put 50+ points just to lut our result into context

Re: Lost for words
Tom1215 07 March, 2020 17:15
Well IRISHboy as stated my comparison is between bristols first season back in the prem last season and ours these season...

Re: Lost for words
HMRH 07 March, 2020 19:49
With some distance from the game - Iíll put money on Sale to win the Premiership and certainly make the final

Franco had an outstanding game and our maul defence in that first half was really very good

Sale have built a really good team and we can do the same but this year was about finding our way. Diamond was written off as a dinosaur recently and neither he nor his team look like that in any way at all

Still a hard beating to take but not end of the world



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 07:46 by HMRH.

Re: Lost for words
NickK 07 March, 2020 22:05
Here's to a few good results coming up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2020 22:08 by NickK.

Re: Lost for words
SixNineOne 08 March, 2020 12:09
Quote:
shimmieandshake
There's a small crowd on here who overreact to both wins and losses, but especially the losses. Wasn't great last night, but not the end of the world.
Scrum struggled after late Kepu drop out (and difficult five-day turnaround), Coleman was a big loss and we were two interceptions down at half time. Matu'u's so avoidable - there was no reward for it, with Mafi outside and defensive cover - and Meehan's could have easily been a penalty our way. Chasing the game made it look uglier than it was.

RE: scrums, you also have to remember Elrington played 75 mins on Sunday after DHA had an HIA pretty much immediately after coming on. He also put in a massive shift against Wasps. Any prop in the league would struggle in the circumstances.

I thought our defence stood up well, was great to see SOB get a run out (never thought I'd see the moment, and he looked good) and love the way Donnell's developing. Tough fixture, Sale's defence was excellent, I still think we have a shot at Top 6.

Only other thought is that I think Albert needs a rest. He's played an insane amount given how physical he is, and think there have been noticeably less line and tackle breaks in the last month or two.
At last, an outbreak of common sense! Once weíd conceded the first two tries we were always going to be chasing the game against a team whose defence is clearly the best in the league - Saleís tries conceded stats are in a different realm to the rest of us. The defence from both teams in the first half was formidable and from my seat in the West stand I didnít think we actually played quite as badly as most of the armchair pundits seem to think. We were playing with very little possession partly because Saleís defensive speed was forcing us into handling errors compounded by the fact that our scrum was getting hammered. This was partly because Jake Cooper-Woolley was being allowed to bind on Harry Ellingtonís arm and pull him down - the AR, Wayne Falla, seemed unwilling to police this or, indeed, to contribute much to the officiating at all.
It was also apparent that the team had only had a 5 day turnaround. Albert looked tired and Harry Ellington had a difficult shift, having played 75 minutes the previous Sunday. I though Ben Donnell put in another very good performance. When I told the Sale supporters next to me he was only 19 they were pretty impressed. I was also encouraged by SOíBís performance. He looked strong and up for it and was very vocal throughout, encouraging and supporting his team mates.

Re: Lost for words
tatthecraic2 08 March, 2020 13:30
I'm the first to admit I'm an emotional chap and Love my rugby. It makes it hard as a fan because nothing we do when watching can change the outcome. For many this leaves you feeling helpless and overly frustrated at your heros who came up short on the pitch (too flowery?!)

Looking back at it.

A back three all around 20 years of age. 2 pull outs pre match (both massive players) Elrington playing as much as he has over 5 days. Donnell in the back row learning his trade... it was going to be so hard to win.

Compounded by a quite frankly tired looking Tuisue, a poor match from our centres (you'll have one or two a season) and our flyhalf having played more minutes than anyone... and the less said about Motu the better...

We need Jackson back so Myler can step down for a game he must be exhausted.

I agree that a nil is unacceptable and there shouldn't be any excuses for that but I think our attack has dropped considerably because Myler is knackered. (Just an opinion)

Give Tuisue a break and bring SOB to 8 for a week.
Bring Jackson back in for a few weeks to get him up to speed and get Poreki starting... kepu and Coleman back and we're looking good again...

Re: Lost for words
shimmieandshake 08 March, 2020 17:37
I'd give Rogerson a game or two at 8 and leave SOB on the flank personally. I think Rogerson is more of an 8, despite how good he's been at 6 this season.

And SixNineOne, scrums remain a mystery to me, but if there's illegal binding on top of the rest, bound to be a tough shift. Thinking back, with Oosterhuizen, Webber and JCW, they had a seriously experienced front row.

Any verdict on Goodrick-Clarke when he came on? I can't remember seeing much of him, but know he's meant to be a notorious scrummager?

Re: Lost for words
SixNineOne 08 March, 2020 18:33
I think the scrum stabilised when Goodrick-Clarke came on, but by then Jake Cooper-Wooley had been subbed so it was hard to judge how WGC would have fared against him. Given the torrid time weíve had upfront in the last two games Iím all for letting WGC start and seeing what he can do, probably against New England recruit, Will Stuart, who demolished us at MadStad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 18:40 by SixNineOne.

Re: Lost for words
LI Bohemian 08 March, 2020 19:04
Got to say that the title of this thread is very misleading we're nearly going on two pages of words


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