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Owen Farrell?
Discussion started by Cill Dara , 07 September, 2020 20:51
Owen Farrell?
Cill Dara 07 September, 2020 20:51
I am not a fan of him or his petulant attitude, but if he gets away with a short ban, it will be a disgrace!

I am only saying this because of a BBC headline, ďWill his previous good record save Farrell from lengthy ban?Ē Are you kidding me!

Owen Farrell's Most Savage Moments

Owen Farrell - Rugby's Biggest Thugs

For me, he has got away with far too much, for far too long!



Prisco stirpe Hibernico

Re: Owen Farrell?
Shawshank 07 September, 2020 21:26
Not exactly a surprise that you harbour such deep-seated antagonism towards the England Captain...

Clearly a clean disciplinary record will be a mitigating factor in the hearing, as will be his biscuit etiquette.

Re: Owen Farrell?
Cill Dara 07 September, 2020 21:33
Sorry dude; itís not the position, itís the man, (Jonny Wilkinson v Owen Farrel)!



Prisco stirpe Hibernico

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 07 September, 2020 21:33
His 'most savage moments' probably aren't has bad as Hala'ufia's...

South Africa one - just a huge collision, some (however minor) attempt to wrap an arm, could see a penalty / yellow card given but not much more than that

Tomas O'Leary - nowt wrong with that

Conor Murray - idiotic, deserved yellow

Foden - landed flat on his back, nothing in that for me just a big tackle

vs the Baa Baas - takes a punch from Brits and gives him a shove and a trip in retaliation, nothing in that

vs Australia - stupid off the ball hit, clear yellow card

vs Australia - bizarre collision but not yellow card worthy for me

vs Toulon - milked by Habana, maybe a penalty but not yellow card worthy for me

Not sure how much of this is 'getting away with it' but I doubt my brief comments are going to change anyone's mind either. And I'm the first one to call out Saracens and Saracens players at any opportunity.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 07 September, 2020 21:38
The entry level for Farrell's offence is six weeks and I doubt it will be considered as mid or high level, which would be a longer suspension. Half off for pleading guilty and good behaviour at the hearing is usual, so I expect they will suspend him for three. However much we might loathe Sarries, I can't see anything other than that decision.(Sm63)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 14:28 by franciscorrigan.

Re: Owen Farrell?
M51 07 September, 2020 21:47
I guess Owen Farell deserves a heavy penalty as it could have resulted in a catastrophic injury to the other player. Lets see if judge and jury have the spine (RFU backing) to do it.

Re: Owen Farrell?
M51 07 September, 2020 21:49
I guess Owen Farell deserves a heavy penalty as it could have resulted in a catastrophic injury to the other player. Lets see if judge and jury have the spine (RFU backing) to do it.

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 07 September, 2020 22:02
What's heavy in your view, M51?

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 07 September, 2020 23:10
Nanai from Worcester only got a three match ban for a real shocker, so I don't see what justifies Farrell getting more.(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
cjm. 07 September, 2020 23:53
Can't stand Farrell. His record should be much worse but for some referees going easy on him for some reason. Repeatedly. Remember him elbowing Johnny Gray in the mouth ( faked not knowing, but he knew ) and JG had to leave the field while Farrell stayed on.

Sure the Huff was no saint by a long way but he was in a position where things were more likely to go wrong. It's almost the reverse of Farrell, he was always carded regardless.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 00:19
It's quite amusing that Jim Hamilton, in a podcast with Andy Goode, reckoned it was the worst tackle he'd seen since Chris Hala'ufia.
Chris is only 6th in the top ten of bad boys in terms of red and yellow cards and one of those reds was rescinded and that would drop him down further on the list if that was removed.

Who's at the top? David Paice (and one of his three reds was Hamilton's fault).(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
Nick4219 08 September, 2020 06:38
Watching the match and that tackle live was bad and gets worse with the replays. Farrell knew it was bad at the time and for me, he looked genuinely concerned for the Wasps player and stayed on the sideline to wait for him after treatment and say a few words.

Surely this shows that Farrell has genuine remorse as he was not instructed to do this, he took full responsibility for his actions and apologised to the player.

I think 3 weeks is a fair ban and will no doubt hurt Sarries chances against Leinster and that could be the end of competitive rugby for them for a year.

Punishment enough I feel.

I look forward to him making up for it in an England shirt soon after.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 06:39 by Nick4219.

Re: Owen Farrell?
PV 08 September, 2020 07:45
Entry level is actually 12 weeks.

Heíll get a reduction due to previous good disciplinary RECORD (regardless of what he has or hasnít done and not been cited or carded).

Best guess is 8-10 weeks.

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 08 September, 2020 08:11
Quote:
PV
Entry level is actually 12 weeks.

Where have you seen that?

[www.englandrugby.com] - I don't know if this is the most recent info but it doesn't say entry level 12 weeks...

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 08 September, 2020 08:23
Quote:
cjm.
Sure the Huff was no saint by a long way but he was in a position where things were more likely to go wrong. It's almost the reverse of Farrell, he was always carded regardless.

What does the first bit mean? He was in a position where things were more likely to go wrong because he made more tackles?

Re: Owen Farrell?
John Tee 08 September, 2020 08:40
I thought the idea was to take bad hits out of the game...the recent break down interpretation is partly designed to increase player safety. Not problem with that approach...the game is far better for it as is player safety, imv.
So...will be interested to see how they view this very poor tackle which was at best reckless and not at all concerned about player safety..imv.

I cant see any more that 3 weeks....and that will be the fudge but totally against attempts to clean up poor hits or attempted tackles.
I hope the Wasps player has no lasting issues.

Re: Owen Farrell?
cjm. 08 September, 2020 10:05
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
cjm.
Sure the Huff was no saint by a long way but he was in a position where things were more likely to go wrong. It's almost the reverse of Farrell, he was always carded regardless.

What does the first bit mean? He was in a position where things were more likely to go wrong because he made more tackles?

Pretty much, he was at the coal face where hard contact after hard contact is a reqt.

Re: Owen Farrell?
SimonG19 08 September, 2020 13:54
Quote:
PV
Entry level is actually 12 weeks.
Heíll get a reduction due to previous good disciplinary RECORD (regardless of what he has or hasnít done and not been cited or carded).

Best guess is 8-10 weeks.

I would be amazed if he gets more than four weeks and most probably less than that.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 14:25
World rugby laws Regulation 17 appendix 1 section 9.11

Any act of foul play which results in contact with the head and/or neck shall result in at least a mid-range sanction (1)

9.11 Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others.

Low-end: 2 weeks
Mid-range: 6 weeks
Top-end: 10+ weeks
Max: 52 weeks

So I will be very surprised if Farrell is banned for more than 3(Sm63)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2020 14:26 by franciscorrigan.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 14:50
further to my previous post, wouldn't it be good if referees actually applied the ruck laws properly?

9.20 Dangerous play in a ruck or maul.

a. A player must not charge into a ruck or maul. Charging includes any contact made without binding onto another player in the ruck or maul.

As far as i'm concerned, if you aren't the first player in and thus starting the ruck, making your first contact with an opposing player, rather than binding on to your own player/players, means you have joined the ruck illegally ie not behind, or alongside your team mate. Most so-called "clear-outs" are more than dubious under the laws as they are written.(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
John Tee 08 September, 2020 23:10
I think they need to focus on the joining of the ruck...cheap hits trying to clear out should be penalised ...but the refs appear to blowing up quickly as a means to stopping bodies pilling in...

If you are off your feet without first binding..peno....simple, imv.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 23:43
Discipinary panel obviously decided Farrell's tackle to be high end, with a 10 week ban cut to 5. Not sure that was justified given some of the things allowed this season. For example in our game against Bath there was a two man tackle with a shoulder to the head and we didn't even get a penalty. Nanai got 3 weeks for a shocker on Johnny May, which was easily as bad as Farrell's. I think Farrell is paying the price for previous unpunished misdemeanours, rather than this offence.(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 08 September, 2020 23:54
Previous unpunished misdemeanours that were committed in the last few years when TMOs and citing panels and things have been in existence?

I think Atkinson being knocked out and sustaining a concussion increased any punishment and brought about the top end entry point - if he'd just been shaken, taken a HIA and went back on it would've been mid-range IMO

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 09 September, 2020 00:00
Johnny May had to go off and didn't come back and that was earlier in their game, so why the difference?(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 09 September, 2020 00:26
Having only seen the incident 30 seconds ago, could it have been because May was ducking into the tackle slightly, and wasn't knocked unconscious? I guess the answers will come when the RFU publishes both reports on its disciplinary page...

In fact the Nanai one is already on there:

The RFU opened the case and indicated from the ouset that they did not consider that there wereany specific aggravating features. They did not demur from points generally made by and on behalf of the Player.

We considered all the material, the evidence as summarised above and submissions.

1. This was a badly executed action which was borne out of poor technique.

2. G11 carried the ball at speed towards the Player and others.

3. The Player set himself up for a tackle.

4. The Player could reasonably have expected G11 to change his running line

5. The Player could reasonably have expected G11 to brace himself in anticipation of a tackle.

6. It was entirely reasonable that G11 would therefore dip and lose height.That ought to have been within the reasonable expectation of the Player.

7. G11 both changed his line and dipped.

8. The Player's right arm was behind his shoulder as a result of the premature timing of the moment of collision (caused by the actions at 7 above) and because there was a player to his immediate right causing his arm to be blocked and preventing it from wrapping around G11 as might have been expected.

9. The Player's right shoulder forcefully struck the advancing head of G11.

Conclusion in relation to the facts

In summary, we concluded that Melani Nanai carried out a dangerous and reckless act which caused Jonny May to fall to the ground and suffer a concussion. This was not adeliberate act and nor did Nanai intend to cause Jonny May to suffer in the way that he did. This incident and the consequences were borne out of poor technique: at the hearing, it was identified that the Player's balance, feet and body position were not as they ought to have been. Moreover, he ought to have anticipated that Jonny May would very likely change his running line and dip as he braced himself for the tackle.

Reasons for selecting entry point:

The reckless nature of this matter together with other relevant matters persuaded us that this was properly a mid-range matter falling far short of the type of case that might fall into the upper bracket.

Re: Owen Farrell?
franciscorrigan 09 September, 2020 00:53
GHA To me, it looked like Nanai deliberately led with the shoulder and whilst probably aiming to hit lower and failing, it was certainly intended. OK May dipped a little, but that was a shocker of a shoulder charge. Farrell's was a shocker too, but had it been lower it would have been a fair tackle, whereas Nanai's was illegal wherever he made contact. I don't like the smug Sarrie, but I think he's a little hard done by on this occasion.(Sm63)

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 09 September, 2020 01:00
Well the disciplinary committee thought otherwise. When the Farrell report is published I'm guessing there will be another section detailing the reasons for selecting a top end entry point, but as you've illustrated you don't have to agree with the findings! winking smiley

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 11 September, 2020 22:44
Farrell's disciplinary report has been published

[www.englandrugby.com]

Re: Owen Farrell?
x_ile 12 September, 2020 20:35
Perhaps the boy should be required to attend an anger management course during his 3 week break. Plus a refresher course on what is and what isn't allowed on the field of play.

What is the point of having a scale of penalties (3 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks or whatever) if these are immediately halved? Expressions of regret, contrition and being the England captain should not come into consideration. The lad he assaulted was concussed and may be lucky to have got off so lightly.

The deliberations and the endless tinkering with the laws by the rugby authorities have all but completely killed my enthusiasm for the game.

Re: Owen Farrell?
HMRH 12 September, 2020 20:53
Why is any of this Farrells fault? Too many people blaming him rather than the process. Deserved the ban but still a wonderful competitor and player

Re: Owen Farrell?
paddym 12 September, 2020 21:06
[quote HMRH]Why is any of this Farrells fault? Too many people blaming him rather than the process. Deserved the ban but still a wonderful competitor and player[/quote

No one else made the tackle but him!

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 12 September, 2020 21:46
His previous is a two week ban four and a half years ago. People seem to be ignoring that.

Re: Owen Farrell?
M51 12 September, 2020 21:47
Maybe it is something that he has to deal with himself as its not the first time he has crossed the line but to his credit he did seem remorseful and apologetic for his actions. I thought the ban was lenient but my persoanl opinion is the RFU look after their own and I wouldnt trust any one of them to exercise due diligence as judge and jury. Lets not go into their management of Rugby in England.
Good luck to him and Charlie and I hope he (Owen) has learnt something from the experience that could have been far worse for a fellow professional.

Re: Owen Farrell?
cjm. 13 September, 2020 00:35
Quote:
GHA
His previous is a two week ban four and a half years ago. People seem to be ignoring that.


Just like referees ignored his many transgressions. He has deserved bans/yellow/red cards on a quite a few occasions but the ref was lenient for some inexplicable reason.

Re: Owen Farrell?
ExiledChameleon 13 September, 2020 03:52
Learning tackling technique off your Dad is always risky, doubly so when he's a League legend. Faz isn't a dirty player, but rather one that will give everything to make his team win, which works out well most of the time. FWIW I remember smashing young Charlie (who is genuinely a 50+ cap England prospect) back at school when I had a few years on him, so I like to think that I helped him acclimatise to Pro rugby (on the flip side TBC ended my delusions when I misjudged a run at him).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/09/2020 03:54 by ExiledChameleon.

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 13 September, 2020 08:40
Quote:
cjm.
Quote:
GHA
His previous is a two week ban four and a half years ago. People seem to be ignoring that.


Just like referees ignored his many transgressions. He has deserved bans/yellow/red cards on a quite a few occasions but the ref was lenient for some inexplicable reason.

Ah yes, Premiership level and international level referees such as Australian Angus Gardner and Irish TMO Olly Hodges, or South African Jaco Peyper and South African TMO Marius Jonker all being lenient and / or ignoring Farrell's transgressions for inexplicable reasons. Referees have let things go, then TMOs have watched things on replay and let them go too. Then there are the citing commissioners who have had a day or two to rewatch games and spot these transgressions and cite Farrell for them who have just decided not to bother...

Re: Owen Farrell?
HMRH 13 September, 2020 10:47
Exactly that GHA. Itís all about opinions and our own interpretations. Oh and the fact heís English and England Captain too adds a little something at times.

My earlier point about fault was trying to blame the process for any leniency people defect rather than blaming Farrell for receiving a Ďlenientí ban

Re: Owen Farrell?
cjm. 13 September, 2020 13:08
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
cjm.
Quote:
GHA
His previous is a two week ban four and a half years ago. People seem to be ignoring that.


Just like referees ignored his many transgressions. He has deserved bans/yellow/red cards on a quite a few occasions but the ref was lenient for some inexplicable reason.

Ah yes, Premiership level and international level referees such as Australian Angus Gardner and Irish TMO Olly Hodges, or South African Jaco Peyper and South African TMO Marius Jonker all being lenient and / or ignoring Farrell's transgressions for inexplicable reasons. Referees have let things go, then TMOs have watched things on replay and let them go too. Then there are the citing commissioners who have had a day or two to rewatch games and spot these transgressions and cite Farrell for them who have just decided not to bother...

You're entitled to your sarcasm but reputations and status influence decisions. The number of dangerous high tackles he has committed ( his 'upright tackling technique' a staple of commentators trying to make excuses ) is somewhat out of whack with the punishments.

Re: Owen Farrell?
GHA 13 September, 2020 16:03
Quote:
cjm.
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
cjm.
Quote:
GHA
His previous is a two week ban four and a half years ago. People seem to be ignoring that.


Just like referees ignored his many transgressions. He has deserved bans/yellow/red cards on a quite a few occasions but the ref was lenient for some inexplicable reason.

Ah yes, Premiership level and international level referees such as Australian Angus Gardner and Irish TMO Olly Hodges, or South African Jaco Peyper and South African TMO Marius Jonker all being lenient and / or ignoring Farrell's transgressions for inexplicable reasons. Referees have let things go, then TMOs have watched things on replay and let them go too. Then there are the citing commissioners who have had a day or two to rewatch games and spot these transgressions and cite Farrell for them who have just decided not to bother...

You're entitled to your sarcasm but reputations and status influence decisions. The number of dangerous high tackles he has committed ( his 'upright tackling technique' a staple of commentators trying to make excuses ) is somewhat out of whack with the punishments.

Which is why Hartley got away with so much for so long. The number of dangerous high tackles he has committed is out of whack with the number of dangerous high tackles some people like to believe he has made.

Reputations and status don't influence citing commissioners.


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