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Naholo surgery
Discussion started by tonyh50 , 08 September, 2020 20:25
Naholo surgery
tonyh50 08 September, 2020 20:25
Just seen that Naholo is to undergo surgery - didn’t he have an op whilst he was back in NZ? now another one - just hope he’s not another poor LI signing who is both expensive and injury prone. He was touted as our star marquee signing but we have seen very little of him so far, along with SOB and Coleman players who were meant to be key to our future in the Premiership we need quality players but ones who can play regularly and support/develop our burgeoning crop of young players.

Re: Naholo surgery
Shawshank 08 September, 2020 20:43
So we will have had about 4 full matches out of our 2 Marquee signings this season. Incredible.

How many operations has Naholo had, amongst his paternity leave?

When will we ever learn not to sign injury-prone crocks?

Re: Naholo surgery
Bazzo 08 September, 2020 20:52
If that is the case, then that is shocking. Surely when you go big on players in terms of salary, you check their medical history and current condition?

You can take a punt on a big signing like an SOB for example and know that he can be great if he gets himself fit, but then Naholo comes with a bad knee, Coleman also needing surgery. That’s a lot of your salary on the operation table. Is it just bad luck?

Re: Naholo surgery
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 20:53
Where did you see that?(Sm63)

Re: Naholo surgery
Shawshank 08 September, 2020 21:04
Brad Davis is talking a load of old crock.

My experience in life is that if someone new comes into most organisations , they need to ‘prove’ themselves by deeds rather than words before they can become ‘leaders’.

A new face being a Billy Big Bollocks from the sidelines usually actually causes huge resentment. Why should LI be any different?

Re: Naholo surgery
M51 08 September, 2020 21:16
I am prepared for the worst but expect the best. (quote from Benjamin Disraeli). All we need is a massive cash injection and some new attacking players/coaches. I am now moving behind my sofa before and after we play Bristol. I really find it hard to accept that these games dont matter, as it must affect a players/team psyche. COYI

Re: Naholo surgery
franciscorrigan 08 September, 2020 21:16
We shall see next season whether Davis is correct or not. I will be optimistic for the new season, however we end up in this. A couple of wins now would be good, but I'm not expecting anything other than our academy lads playing their hearts out for the team. From past performances, at least we can expect that, even if we lose every game. (Sm63)

Re: Naholo surgery
BaltiBoy 08 September, 2020 21:43
He wasn't right when he arrived and was definitely favouring one leg over the other. Why has it taken so long for him to have surgery or is this a different injury to the one he arrived with.



Cheers & Beers
BB

Re: Naholo surgery
cjm. 08 September, 2020 23:04
Imagine being the money men behind these big signings and seeing what a waste of money they are. Money down the drain. Naholo is now right down at the bottom of our list of marquee signings. It least I saw Roussow do something good, once, and he probably cost a lot less.

SOB was bit more of a known problem case but still disappointing.

Coleman, different kettle. He has been very impressive and played quite a few games so I have no issues with him.

It probably is right to try and sort these operations out now but it is hardly a good sign.

One thing it highlights is how damn tough Blair Cowan is, all that contact and he really hasn't missed much IIRC.

Re: Naholo surgery
norg2072 09 September, 2020 07:05
I believe Naholo and Coleman have returned to training, having already had the surgery Brad is referring to.

Re: Naholo surgery
tonyh50 09 September, 2020 07:13
Rugby Pass yesterday said he is going in this week for an operation in the hope that he will be fully fit for the start of the new season in November. LI decided not to risk him for the rest of the current games just get the op done straight away.

Re: Naholo surgery
billpulling 09 September, 2020 07:53
Hi all,

This was a misquote in an interview that Brad did. Waisake had his operation in NZ after their lockdown restrictions were lifted (during which the UK lockdown was ongoing). Waisake started his rehab in NZ and has now returned to Hazelwood to continue his rehab, with no plans for a further operation. The article will be amended, apologies for any confusions.

Thanks,
Bill

Re: Naholo surgery
HMRH 09 September, 2020 08:16
Thanks for the clarification but that’s a hell of a misquote and totally alters that part of the article!!

Re: Naholo surgery
shimmieandshake 09 September, 2020 08:40
Glad it was indeed a misquote.

Saw this from Ruckingood on the other thread a couple of days ago, mind you:

"Naholo is cooked... even after surgery his knee is 65% and I doubt we'll see him at his best again."

Really hope Rucking's wrong on this wrong, though that is rare.

I would also say anyone including Coleman in this category is plain wrong - he showed up fit after the World Cup, stringed together some excellent form and then got injured, which happens and we can't complain about it.

Re: Naholo surgery
PV 09 September, 2020 10:35
Coleman is sadly the exception to the rule.

Phipps - avverage
Mafi - well past his best
SOB - non existant
Kepu - average
Naholo - Nalaga mark 2

We lost our best signing - Botha
Jackson looking ok but is he better than Myler?

Rona - decent in patches.

That’s a shocking return on CVC money

Re: Naholo surgery
Nick4219 09 September, 2020 10:51
Quote:
PV
Coleman is sadly the exception to the rule.
Phipps - avverage
Mafi - well past his best
SOB - non existant
Kepu - average
Naholo - Nalaga mark 2

We lost our best signing - Botha
Jackson looking ok but is he better than Myler?

Rona - decent in patches.

That’s a shocking return on CVC money

Rona is a great signing and when he and Hepetema are together we are a much better team.

SOB, give him a chance. He had a decent game against Bath and injury has limited him, I think he will get back to his old self when fit.

Jackson needed time to settle down after his off the pitch struggles, now with more games he is looking brilliant and could be our stalwart at FH for a number of seasons. I think we will get more out of him than we did with Myler.

Naholo had a knee injury. He had a few bright sparks pre lockdown and no doubt if he wasn’t carrying his injury we would have seen some fireworks. Now he’s has the surgery let’s give him a chance to prove it before we write him off.

Phipps definitely needs to improve and the last game showed what he can bring. Kepu is solid and decent front row option with experience which we were lacking prior to the addition of Creevy. Not seen enough of Mafi due to injury, but, he is needed in the locks to tighten up the line out and maul defence.

Re: Naholo surgery
jimbo800 09 September, 2020 11:47
It has been tough to see such a small return on our big money investments but I think there are a few things to remember in all of it:
• all these guys arrived at different times at the beginning of the season. Some fresh, some less so.
• they’ve come into a side that to be honest, doesn’t appear sure of what kind of style they’re trying to play.
• buying in players is meant to enhance what is already there, not fix the problem (which is why I hate all the talk of players influencing the squad, that’s the coaches job IMO)
• I feel we’ve suffered from the Covid break more than most. We’ve lost our 3 stalwarts and our ‘best’ signing in Botha who was a standout over the past few years signings.
• We had some momentum, we lost heavily at Sale but so have others. The side I saw beat Quins at the stoop is nothing like what we’re seeing now. The Covid break has given other teams a chance to regroup and refresh for another attack on top four when we were actually doing ok in our reach of top 6.
• Injuries injuries injuries, we’ve been crucified again by injuries to key players. We haven’t had the guys ready and fit at the same time which is infuriating. We have a great lineup, if we ever get them all fit.
• in terms of the players themselves, to get the best out of our signings, they need to be playing with the other signings who are of equal quality. Kepu was brilliant against Quins in what was a much much stronger lineup. He can’t make the other players better or hold up a scrum himself, but if he’s in the pack with creevy and a proper second row, watch him do the business.
• Jackson is slowly asserting himself, but as green tinted as we are we need to remember that Jackson is used to playing with better players outside him, making his life and his highlights reel look far better. He’s played with O Driscoll and Peinaar who don’t need him to make all the calls whereas our centres seem to require far more direction. And he’s probably used to getting better ball in better areas of the pitch.
• Dell doesn’t fill me with hope, he doesn’t look that bothered.
• O brien will come good for a season, that’s all we need before some of the younger lads like Cooke are ready for full time slog.
• mafi, I just hope he’s not earning big money.
• Colman and Phipps, fine with them.
• Creevy, class act
• Rona, does his job well, even it lacks the fireworks. We need steady over flair at the moment
• Nahalo - We can’t get the best out of him if our back play is as dull as it currently is. Let’s get him fit and see from there.

We need them on the same team sheet which from Brads interview suggests that’s what the aim is for next season. We still have Simmons to come as well. Loads of talent, we just haven’t been able to use it.

One thing that doesn’t get mentioned is that when we are putting out poor/inexperienced line ups like we have done post lockdown, it completely changes the way a team prepares for us. They know not to worry about the centres crashing through or line outs getting stolen because the key men aren’t there. When O’Brien, Colman, nahalo and Phipps are all playing and firing, a team will be far more conservative in their approach playing us than they are now with our academy second row and fourth choice 9 playing.

COYI!!!!!!!

Disclaimer - Irish have broken my heart more than any person ever could.

Re: Naholo surgery
PV 09 September, 2020 12:10
So in essence be patience and give them a chance.

It's been nearly a year!!!

Re: Naholo surgery
Shawshank 09 September, 2020 12:18
Comrade PV - as you well know, we start each September with a 5-year plan...

Re: Naholo surgery
shimmieandshake 09 September, 2020 12:23
Quote:
PV
So in essence be patience and give them a chance.
It's been nearly a year!!!

For O'Brien and Naholo (I think Kepu came even later), it's three/four months of us actually being on the field, given they came after Christmas and the season paused after Sale game on 6th March.

And yes. Judge on the next five/six games of next season, not now.

^ edit: I'm wrong about Naholo, actually. Came earlier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2020 12:24 by shimmieandshake.

Re: Naholo surgery
jimbo800 09 September, 2020 12:40
Ultimately yes be patient, because we have no other choice. But that oversimplifies what I said. There are many mitigating factors as to why we’re not firing on al cylinders like we would have hoped.

Re: Naholo surgery
PV 09 September, 2020 13:11
So why are we literally the exemplar for this, no other club flops like it. Been going for years

Re: Naholo surgery
cjm. 09 September, 2020 13:21
Quote:
PV
So why are we literally the exemplar for this, no other club flops like it. Been going for years

Lack of consistency and stability. Always in dogfights. Hard to build when everything is so uncertain as no one wants to commit.

Most other clubs have a solid core fanbase, a stable location and an identity. Or at least 2 out of three. Not sure we really have any. The Irish thing is almost false advertising now.

Re: Naholo surgery
PV 09 September, 2020 13:33
People are paid to do this job. Performance is way below par and the investment has been borderline negligent. The CVC money isn’t forever, this was our big spend. It’s just depressing how obvious and@#$%&it is.

Re: Naholo surgery
Exilepaul 09 September, 2020 13:49
Should Rob Simmons not already be here? The Waratahs season finished 10 days ago

Re: Naholo surgery
Exilepaul 09 September, 2020 13:51
Quote:
PV
Coleman is sadly the exception to the rule.
Phipps - avverage
Mafi - well past his best
SOB - non existant
Kepu - average
Naholo - Nalaga mark 2

We lost our best signing - Botha
Jackson looking ok but is he better than Myler?

Rona - decent in patches.

That’s a shocking return on CVC money

Hahaha love it PV. I wouldn't have been that kind tbh

Re: Naholo surgery
Nick4219 09 September, 2020 14:44
Quote:
Exilepaul
Should Rob Simmons not already be here? The Waratahs season finished 10 days ago

10 days to move to the other side of the world with your family and in the middle of a worldwide pandemic?

Think about it.........

Re: Naholo surgery
Shawshank 09 September, 2020 15:27
Still think we played our best rugby over the last 5-6 years in the approx 3 months that Ian Keatley was with us.

I know he was playing against Championship teams, but he oozed class and pace. Really one we should have moved heaven and earth to keep.

Re: Naholo surgery
Clontarf 09 September, 2020 16:03
Quote:
Shawshank
Still think we played our best rugby over the last 5-6 years in the approx 3 months that Ian Keatley was with us.
I know he was playing against Championship teams, but he oozed class and pace. Really one we should have moved heaven and earth to keep.

I agree SS,

When Ian Keatley was here I asked a cousin about him.

Cousin is a Munster ST holder and a senior GAA coach

His verdict was, lovely fella, highly talented, has tended to crack in the real heat.

This seems to be a Munster problem at present. They play as though they have O'Gara to turn scraps into points but O'Gara clones are hard to find.

Perhaps Ian K wouldn't have looked so good at prem level.

Who knows, I'd still have tried to keep him

Re: Naholo surgery
SixNineOne 09 September, 2020 16:24
Quote:
cjm.

Most other clubs have a solid core fanbase, a stable location and an identity. Or at least 2 out of three. Not sure we really have any. The Irish thing is almost false advertising now.

That's probably why Declan Kidney is always talking about us being a bunch of exiles. Out of interest, would anyone like to provide an informed guess as to what proportion of our season ticket holders have an Irish connection?

Re: Naholo surgery
Shawshank 09 September, 2020 16:25
Yep Clontarf, I always had that slight feeling about IK when I saw him in on TV in v big Euro matches, but that was when he was basically being compared to ROG, which was a tough gig...

But seeing him play live he was a revelation.

Apparently he wanted to stay but Treviso played hardball.

Re: Naholo surgery
Bazzo 09 September, 2020 17:04
Quote:
PV
Coleman is sadly the exception to the rule.
Phipps - avverage
Mafi - well past his best
SOB - non existant
Kepu - average
Naholo - Nalaga mark 2

We lost our best signing - Botha
Jackson looking ok but is he better than Myler?

Rona - decent in patches.

That’s a shocking return on CVC money

This...... agreed

Coleman has looked good but why did he not have the operation at the beginning of the shut down? Ah well, i am now joining the ranks of giving up on this post lockdown season. The thing for me is probably bar a fit Jackson and Coleman, all those guys are past their peak. Jackson has only looked good in the Glaws game so would not get carried away either. His hamstring injury wrote off a lot of this season. Injuries to key players will always hurt and with little depth it is high risk.

We are throwing lambs to the slaughter (but giving great “experience “ to our young players). I wonder how many of them will play when the expensive boys come back?

Our signings have been average at best. If it has swallowed all the CVC money it is a shocker. The policy is going to need a continuous money tap to pay these players or replace them with similar types, used to be a top international player but needs a career finalising pension injection.

Re: Naholo surgery
SixNineOne 09 September, 2020 17:31
Quote:
Bazzo
Coleman has looked good but why did he not have the operation at the beginning of the shut down?

The problem was that Coleman needed two operations, one on his shoulder and one on his knee. He couldn't have them both done at the beginning of lockdown as he wouldn't have been able to use crutches with his shoulder out of commission as well. So he had to have them consecutively.

Re: Naholo surgery
AnotherPhil 11 September, 2020 08:30
If you look at where we have been for the last 5 years, is it a surprise that the top names everybody seems to want aren't coming to Irish. I think the recruitment for us has to be a bit of a gamble. Take a punt on some players who wouldn't necessarily get the big offers from the top teams. Might pay more money than some journeymen, but there might be a bargain or two in there. Hopefully they're having more impact on the training pitch, and providing examples for the academy lads.

Re: Naholo surgery
GHA 11 September, 2020 08:53
It was a miracle we got James O'Connor, but we still got him

Re: Naholo surgery
tonyh50 11 September, 2020 09:12
“It was a miracle we got James O'Connor, but we still got him”

Agree and wish we’d spent some of the CVC money on getting him back, looking at how outstanding he is playing for the reds at the moment we need that sort of quality.

Re: Naholo surgery
RodB 11 September, 2020 09:20
We need a gnarly hairy-@rsed saffer loosehead to provide a bit of presence in the scrum. There's been a couple found lurking in france pro d2 recently.

Re: Naholo surgery
AlecW 11 September, 2020 09:44
RodB - at the moment, I'd rather we borrowed a a gnarly hairy-@rsed saffer 2nd row for the rest of the season! Imagine Bakkies Botha about 12 years ago!

Re: Naholo surgery
Nick4219 11 September, 2020 10:09
Quote:
tonyh50
“It was a miracle we got James O'Connor, but we still got him”
Agree and wish we’d spent some of the CVC money on getting him back, looking at how outstanding he is playing for the reds at the moment we need that sort of quality.

I saw an interview with JOC recently, I don’t think he will ever leave Australia to play rugby again. Has ambitions for the Wallabies and blames a lot of his indiscretions on his wild European tour.

Re: Naholo surgery
RodB 11 September, 2020 10:19
AlecW, i agree we're currently a bit lacking in the 2nd row but at least thrre are reinforcements on the horizon... I'm not aware of any such coming to support Creevy and Kepu up front.

Re: Naholo surgery
GHA 11 September, 2020 10:50
Getting O'Connor back isn't an answer, but making signings of his quality and profile (we signed him when he was 23!) would be nice

Re: Naholo surgery
ExiledChameleon 11 September, 2020 11:33
Quote:
Bazzo
Our signings have been average at best. If it has swallowed all the CVC money it is a shocker. The policy is going to need a continuous money tap to pay these players or replace them with similar types, used to be a top international player but needs a career finalising pension injection.

I suspect that the plan is/was to sign these big overseas names, then phase in their academy replacements over the next two/three years. In some areas it's worked almost too well (Loader/OHC for Naholo).

Real shame that we couldn't keep IK, him and PJ competing for the 10 spot would have been perfect.


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