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Rob Simmons
Discussion started by paddym , 13 September, 2020 13:34
Rob Simmons
paddym 13 September, 2020 13:34
Selected in Australia squad for autumn test series so unlikely to see him until Xmas

Re: Rob Simmons
Shawshank 13 September, 2020 14:03
FFS - surely he agreed to retire from Int rugby when we signed him...?

Goes from bad to worse on our signings front.

Re: Rob Simmons
Nick4219 13 September, 2020 14:14
On the Rugby Australia article he is still listed as a Waratahs player so maybe his contract with us hasn’t started yet. Disappointing though as now this will likely delay his availability for next season now.

Re: Rob Simmons
tatthecraic3 13 September, 2020 14:43
Very poor signing in hind site. Was always a possibility due to gitau's law for anyone over 60 caps.

Re: Rob Simmons
Lazyboy346 14 September, 2020 10:53
Surely it's good if he's playing well enough to get selected for his country?

I also personally hate the idea of players being forced to retire from international rugby due to a contract with a club. Playing for your country should be recognition that you are a top player rather than an impediment to your career. Forcing players to retire internationally to get a good contract is particularly hard on tier 2 and 3 nations who lose a lot of their best players - see the number of pacific islanders who retired just before the world cup.

I'd suggest there should be some flex to allow for cover in situations where players are unexpectedly called up for international duty i.e. similar to injury cover but only applicable to players not named in the international squad in the previous three seasons. That would cover young players doing surprisingly well and unexpected call ups for players who have dropped out of selection for a long time, but doesn't assist teams who know going in that players like the Vunipolas, George Ford or Launchbury will most likely be away in international windows.

Re: Rob Simmons
tatthecraic2 15 September, 2020 10:25
Quote:
Lazyboy346
Surely it's good if he's playing well enough to get selected for his country?
I also personally hate the idea of players being forced to retire from international rugby due to a contract with a club. Playing for your country should be recognition that you are a top player rather than an impediment to your career. Forcing players to retire internationally to get a good contract is particularly hard on tier 2 and 3 nations who lose a lot of their best players - see the number of pacific islanders who retired just before the world cup.

I'd suggest there should be some flex to allow for cover in situations where players are unexpectedly called up for international duty i.e. similar to injury cover but only applicable to players not named in the international squad in the previous three seasons. That would cover young players doing surprisingly well and unexpected call ups for players who have dropped out of selection for a long time, but doesn't assist teams who know going in that players like the Vunipolas, George Ford or Launchbury will most likely be away in international windows.

that not what we're saying.

its great for him that he's an international still - but we need good players to be available week in week out as we build into a team who is not yo-yoing up and down from championship to prem.

the siging was probably poor as he will cost us a fortune and play a minimal amount of games for us

Re: Rob Simmons
PV 15 September, 2020 10:43
There's no point having signings if they aren't on the pitch, injured or international call ups.

We desperately needed a lock, let two go - Maddison and Franco and replaced them with a guy who can't play until maybe '21. How does that make any sense?

Re: Rob Simmons
jimbo800 15 September, 2020 10:49
How many of Exeter’s players are actually gone half e season through international call ups. They’ve done amazing work with prem players who don’t find themselves on the radar Of international coaches. Now they’ve upped their spending and have some but for a long time they could put out pretty much the same team each week. We survived as long as we did because we had no internationals and got our wins during the six nations. We lose mcnally who was amazing for us, and replace with guys who cost three times that.
The reason we’ve been so bad since lockdown is our lack of forwards, simple as that. Big money from O brien and kepu and mafi would have paid for six decent prem players.

Re: Rob Simmons
SteveS 16 September, 2020 02:19
He won't miss many games tho surely, the season starts late November? I'm all for a good moan but the fact that we've signed a guy good enough still to be wanted by his country is well lower on my begrudgery scale

Re: Rob Simmons
Margin_Walker 16 September, 2020 06:34
Quote:
SteveS
He won't miss many games tho surely, the season starts late November? I'm all for a good moan but the fact that we've signed a guy good enough still to be wanted by his country is well lower on my begrudgery scale

Rugby Championship is being played in Nov/Dec this year. Doubt we'll see him until the new year.

One of those things, but certainly not ideal.

Re: Rob Simmons
HMRH 16 September, 2020 09:43
Which other high quality locks were available just below international level? Botha fitted the mould but sadly Covid destroyed that plan. Give the club a break

Re: Rob Simmons
AlecW 16 September, 2020 10:48
Since the Rugby Championship ends on 12th December, I would imagine Simmons will be in the biosecure bubble (barring injury - yikes! (Sm113)) until 13-14th. From there, it would be pretty churlish to deny him time to pack, say his goodbyes and have a family Christmas - he has a wife and little daughter, after all. Then, he'll have to sort out somewhere decent to live (assuming his family are joining him soon afterwards - they have to be comfortable too!).

So I doubt we'll see him at Hazelwood until early January and I would guess he won't be match-fit / ready to play much before late January / early February.

That's only my guess / read on it, though.

Re: Rob Simmons
GHA 16 September, 2020 11:27
This is assuming he makes the final squad rather than the Preliminary squad that he's currently in, is that right?

Re: Rob Simmons
Shawshank 16 September, 2020 11:35
Virtually all other clubs seem to have no trouble signing physical and belligerent forwards from Southern Africa.

Yet we manage to let go our best lock for several years in FVDM, and don't tie down 2 others (Botha x 2) to any proper contract.

BTW - Arno is back in SA - worth a phone call...?

Re: Rob Simmons
PV 16 September, 2020 12:20
This was and is so obvious and hasn't been addressed. No comment on Rob Simmons or his family and his career - more a reflection on our disastrous recruitment.

We have written off the season ahead of needing to increase revenues from the move to Brentford - why would someone watch us above Quins - same neck of the woods....

Of the current squad - the return on investment is negligible at best. No other side experiences these challenges to this extent and this isn't a new issue for us.

Re: Rob Simmons
SteveS 16 September, 2020 17:55
Quote:
AlecW
Since the Rugby Championship ends on 12th December, I would imagine Simmons will be in the biosecure bubble (barring injury - yikes! (Sm113)) until 13-14th. From there, it would be pretty churlish to deny him time to pack, say his goodbyes and have a family Christmas - he has a wife and little daughter, after all. Then, he'll have to sort out somewhere decent to live (assuming his family are joining him soon afterwards - they have to be comfortable too!).
So I doubt we'll see him at Hazelwood until early January and I would guess he won't be match-fit / ready to play much before late January / early February.

That's only my guess / read on it, though.

Equally, he will be match fit coming off test matches. The club will provide temp accomodation, sportsmen since the year dot have sacrificed Christmases. We shall see! I expect if the loss run heads into the teens, he'll be told to report for active duty

Re: Rob Simmons
HMRH 17 September, 2020 07:08
So who should the club have signed instead of Simmons? Let’s not go with a really good South African who isn’t part of the Bok squad and wasn’t under contract - who?

With Botha I think they got the sweet spot and then Covid,not the selection, undid all that work. So who?

Be specific with solutions as opposed to complaining about the recruitment

Re: Rob Simmons
PV 17 September, 2020 11:36
Someone is paid to do that role! Happy to job swap...

Re: Rob Simmons
shimmieandshake 17 September, 2020 12:07
Quote:
HMRH
So who should the club have signed instead of Simmons? Let’s not go with a really good South African who isn’t part of the Bok squad and wasn’t under contract - who?
With Botha I think they got the sweet spot and then Covid,not the selection, undid all that work. So who?

Be specific with solutions as opposed to complaining about the recruitment

Botha was definitely in the sweet spot. It was a brilliant signing, and we're unlucky not to get more out of it.

I think he was on the fringes of pushing into the Boks' RWC squad before getting injured in spring 2019 just before he came to us. Giving their current injuries at lock, good chance he'll be involved in their Rugby Championship squad, if the Boks do end up playing. Perhaps ironic if Botha did play, given the thread we're in.

Re: Rob Simmons
SirBurger 17 September, 2020 12:14
It's a good point - I would prefer it if we tried to target the Botha-esque calibre of players that have perhaps been unfairly overlooked at international level, rather than the guys who are internationals but perhaps towards the end of their careers. However, I imagine there is more demand for the former and so that is probably why we have had to target more of the latter.

Re: Rob Simmons
shimmieandshake 17 September, 2020 13:27
Pretty much, Sir B.

I still think Coleman's an unbelievable signing. Suspect he'll go back to Aus after the contract, but these should be great years while he's with us, and presumably not playing for Aus.

Beyond that, the 'just below' spot is ideal, either those who 'never will' or 'never will again'. In terms of locks, for instance, hanging on to McNally would have been perfect, or players like Dave Attwood. It's why Kennedy was perfect, and Garvey was briefly.

In terms of overseas signings, players like Jannes Kirsten or Dave Dennis at Exeter. Skelton at Sarries. The Du Preez brothers. Leinster and Munster have always been especially good at pulling in these signings.

You have to add it's easy to wax lyrical about signings after they've come off. Many players come and go without much impact. Would certainly be nice to sign another Botha equivalent.

Re: Rob Simmons
HMRH 17 September, 2020 13:35
Quote:
PV
Someone is paid to do that role! Happy to job swap...

Nows the chance to stake a claim with some decent observations!

Re: Rob Simmons
franciscorrigan 17 September, 2020 21:39
HMRH

Saffer lock wish list:

Marvin Orie
Jason Jenkins

With years of play in them yet and they are both monsters.
Also happy to play abroad.
Orie was on loan at Ospreys for a while and Jenkins is currently in Japan I think.
Both Springbok possibles but on the outer fringes and the Boks have more spare locks than they know what to do with(Sm63)

Players like that probably a sight cheaper and with more mileage left than Coleman and Simmons



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/09/2020 21:40 by franciscorrigan.

Re: Rob Simmons
ExiledChameleon 18 September, 2020 00:26
Quote:
SirBurger
It's a good point - I would prefer it if we tried to target the Botha-esque calibre of players that have perhaps been unfairly overlooked at international level, rather than the guys who are internationals but perhaps towards the end of their careers. However, I imagine there is more demand for the former and so that is probably why we have had to target more of the latter.


I agree with the first half of this.

As for the latter half, the internationals are genuinely big names, and far more useful for marketing.

Kepu/Jackson/Rona/Naholo/possibly Coleman fit into the not going to be called up again category, while mostly being big names.

Re: Rob Simmons
PV 18 September, 2020 08:03
Quote:
HMRH
Quote:
PV
Someone is paid to do that role! Happy to job swap...

Nows the chance to stake a claim with some decent observations!

Oh yoiu! Francis has done a decent job there already.

Re: Rob Simmons
Gazzle 18 September, 2020 08:32
If we're looking for heft, Google says Marvin Orie is 110kg and Jason Jenkins is 122kg. In comparison, Chunya Munga is 119kg already.

Weight isn't everything but I'd guess that the powers that be see Mr Munga fulfilling this remit in the near future. Has certainly looked premiership ready to me, and if not then v v close.

I was expecting Mafi to offer a bit more grunt as well when we signed him, but he hasn't shown that yet. He looked taller and more rangey than I expected - was thinking heavy beef. Hopefully more to come from him when he's fully fit. His arrival was highly lauded on this board when he was signed, but he seems the forgotten man of the squad now.

Re: Rob Simmons
SirBurger 18 September, 2020 09:09
Jenkins would be a class signing...just signed on with the Bulls though.

Re: Rob Simmons
HMRH 18 September, 2020 09:15
Thanks Francis - exactly the response I was after rather than a simple “we need better” comment

Lions and Bulls players - obviously the Lions player is better. Will be interesting to see whether PRO14 exposure to the European market will see (even) more movement between the countries

With the locks they have for the Boks I think they’d be a good shout although I think both under contract atm?

Also think Gazzles Point about CM is a fair one - bring him on alongside the Aussies and in 2 years we have ourselves a fully established lock alongside the returning Botha ( in my dreams)

Re: Rob Simmons
SirBurger 18 September, 2020 09:38
Quote:
HMRH
Thanks Francis - exactly the response I was after rather than a simple “we need better” comment
Lions and Bulls players - obviously the Lions player is better. Will be interesting to see whether PRO14 exposure to the European market will see (even) more movement between the countries

With the locks they have for the Boks I think they’d be a good shout although I think both under contract atm?

Also think Gazzles Point about CM is a fair one - bring him on alongside the Aussies and in 2 years we have ourselves a fully established lock alongside the returning Botha ( in my dreams)

Personally think Jenkins is better than Orie so not sure it is that obvious.

But yes, a returning Botha is probably the dream!

Re: Rob Simmons
PV 18 September, 2020 09:43
Quote:
HMRH
Thanks Francis - exactly the response I was after rather than a simple “we need better” comment
Lions and Bulls players - obviously the Lions player is better. Will be interesting to see whether PRO14 exposure to the European market will see (even) more movement between the countries

With the locks they have for the Boks I think they’d be a good shout although I think both under contract atm?

Also think Gazzles Point about CM is a fair one - bring him on alongside the Aussies and in 2 years we have ourselves a fully established lock alongside the returning Botha ( in my dreams)

You did ignore that someone is paid full time to do the role....

Re: Rob Simmons
shimmieandshake 18 September, 2020 09:50
Quote:
ExiledChameleon
Kepu/Jackson/Rona/Naholo/possibly Coleman fit into the not going to be called up again category, while mostly being big names.

Good point. Jackson, Rona and Naholo especially are peak age. Without the knee issue (a big 'if', admittedly), Naholo would have been a serious signing.

Quote:
Gazzle
If we're looking for heft, Google says Marvin Orie is 110kg and Jason Jenkins is 122kg. In comparison, Chunya Munga is 119kg already.
Weight isn't everything but I'd guess that the powers that be see Mr Munga fulfilling this remit in the near future. Has certainly looked premiership ready to me, and if not then v v close.

I think everyone's height/weight is distorted on Google. Many added stones and inches.

To be honest, I'm not quite seeing what everyone else is re: Munga. He seems solid, but doesn't exactly stand out. Good basics - seems to be a good lineout option and makes his tackles - but haven't seen him make a turnover or any carries that get over the gainline. Seems to lack a little bit of dynamism/athleticism to me.

I'm still positive on the guy - lots of time and space to progress - but would like to see him add an edge to his game. By way of comparison, Cooke and Donnell have that knack of being constantly visible and involved in big moments and plays. Munga is much less visible.

Re: Rob Simmons
Gazzle 18 September, 2020 10:17
Fair observation s&s. For me that was probably what I thought impressed. He looked solid on prem debut at a v young age and did all the essentials of a second row well - certainly nothing for this board to criticise which must be positive!! A pretty tidy base to build from if you ask me.

Re: Rob Simmons
franciscorrigan 18 September, 2020 10:47
The thing about Saffers is that you get serious bang for your buck. They all seem to have a real bloody-minded streak and a fair bit of ruthless aggression, qualities we seem to be a little light on.
Munga seems to me a decent player, but he lacks the fire and aggression of the likes of Botha. In the Prem you need a few with the "beat you up and rub your nose in the dirt" mentality that we used to see with the like of Chris Hala'Ufia. As a team, we are just too nice.(Sm63)

Re: Rob Simmons
franciscorrigan 18 September, 2020 11:10
Jason Jenkins is on a short term loan to the Bulls from Toyota Verblitz in Japan, which makes him eligible for the Boks during the Internationals. It will be interesting to see if he gets a game, given the number of other locks they have. At 24 he would be an ideal long term addition to any team. Not aware of how long his contract is at Verblitz, but I'd be dangling some serious money his way. Apparently Verblitz means "Green Lightning", so he is no stranger to a green shirt.(Sm63)

Re: Rob Simmons
GHA 18 September, 2020 11:54
Would South African players also be cheaper based on exchange rates? i.e. they can be tempted over for less than it takes to tempt Aussies or Kiwis over? Could be wrong

Re: Rob Simmons
franciscorrigan 20 September, 2020 15:27
GHA
Average Saffer, gets less than £40 thou with a bit of win money on top. Even the high earners don't get much more. No wonder Sale have a load of them. Good value for money.(Sm63)

Re: Rob Simmons
Lazyboy346 20 September, 2020 16:56
Southern Kings suspended 2020 operations in August so a few players there that potentially available cheaply. Not exactly a Botha replacement but someone like Astle (29, 117kg) or Fortuin (24, 114kg) could help our scrum as a replacement for de Chaves (30, 120kg). A solid N8 like Ruaan Lerm might be useful for squad depth as we lack options there if Rogerson plays 6.

There's also probably a few players from the Championship who we could look at. James Voss got picked up by Tigers a few years back but ended up at Coventry without playing and could be worth a punt at 26 and 117kg plus EQ.

Re: Rob Simmons
mackemII 20 September, 2020 17:17
Southern Kings announced yesterday that they have gone into liquidation.


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