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LI v Bristol
Discussion started by Shawshank , 04 October, 2020 15:05
LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:05
Playing with a very strong wind.

Strange reffing the advantage by Dickson...

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:09
Dickson is so slooooooow in his setting the scrum.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:14
Good try from Bristol, v v poor defence though on our right flank.

LI 0 Bristol 7

Re: LI v Bristol
AlecW 04 October, 2020 15:14
Why are there always (often 4-5) blockers allowed to shield the catcher of a high ball from the player trying to compete for the ball...?

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:15
Kicking game just cost us the try. Jackson clueless(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:16
dickson not reffing off feet and sealing off at the rucks

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:17
Bristol back play is delightful to watch.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:20
Why do our half backs kick everything away?

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:22
I wouldn't mind if there was any point to their kicking. We just give the ball away. It's pathetic(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 15:24
Quote:
Shawshank
Why do our half backs kick everything away?

Fear.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:24
Against a team who generally want to run it back, and do so successfully, itís a pretty odd tactic.

Re: LI v Bristol
ThamesDittonIrish 04 October, 2020 15:24
True, number of kicks speaks to lack of faith in those outside, but the lack of quality shocking

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 15:27
Quote:
Shawshank
Against a team who generally want to run it back, and do so successfully, itís a pretty odd tactic.
Didn't say it was logical. It's kind of a damage limitation manoeuvre than a winning tactic.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:28
Loader showing Jackson hoe to find touch(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
AlecW 04 October, 2020 15:28
Scrums taking about 10 minutes to set... at least he spotted the Bris prop edging back in order to take it lower... Afoa...?

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:29
Randall has made more breaks in this half than Phipps has done all season.(Sm141)

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:31
how not hoe. Freudian slip. Jackson playing like one(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
norg2072 04 October, 2020 15:31
Dull dull dull!!!!!

Kicking game is making me angry!!

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:32
I donít think we have been in their 22 yet with the ball, after 28 mins.

And we are playing with a strong wind.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:35
Powderpuff defence from a 5m lineout.

Pretty disappointing after 22 matches of the season that we have not improved on this.

0-14

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:35
I presume the idea is to make use of the strong following wind by kicking. Would be fine if the kicks were any good, but we are just gifting the ball to Bristol. Absolute rubbish(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
ThamesDittonIrish 04 October, 2020 15:36
Was thinking if they can hold at 7 points at half time that would be something! Getting back to watching a bit more premiership and Seem to be a few names in there happy to bump up their pension!

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:37
Jacksonís restarts are utterly hopeless.

How did he ever win 25-odd Irish caps?

Re: LI v Bristol
AlecW 04 October, 2020 15:38
This is already a very, VERY long afternoon... if it wasnít LI, Iíd switch to the IPL... in fact I might at half time, if there isnít a scintilla of a smidgen of a groat of a tiny bit of improvement... (not hoping for much, as you can tell)...

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:38
Dickson getting @#$%& off with us. Game over. We will leak penalties all game now.

Re: LI v Bristol
HK Phooey 04 October, 2020 15:40
That's one for the Xmas party

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:40
going to be playing a man short soon(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:40
Malins does a Geezer...!

How we havenít been given a (Sm21)is quite remarkable.

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 15:42
It's the weakest defence I have seen for a long time and there is absolutely no offence to speak of.

No one is earning their money except Creevy

Re: LI v Bristol
SteveS 04 October, 2020 15:43
Looks like itís back to the usual outclassed tonkings. Iíve banned myself from talking about Jackson for other reasons than his ineffective performances

Re: LI v Bristol
ThamesDittonIrish 04 October, 2020 15:43
Lots of chat every few years of greater tie up with the irfu. Any more truth this time? No silver bullet, but greater identity would surely add something, more than the likes of kepu anyway

Re: LI v Bristol
Challow 04 October, 2020 15:43
Why do the kick offs go straight to Radradra

Re: LI v Bristol
SteveS 04 October, 2020 15:45
Quote:
Shawshank
Malins does a Geezer...!
How we havenít been given a (Sm21)is quite remarkable.

Surely a Burns given that was much more high profile

Re: LI v Bristol
SteveS 04 October, 2020 15:46
Quote:
Shawshank
Jacksonís restarts are utterly hopeless.
How did he ever win 25-odd Irish caps?

Argggh breaking my rule. Itís nowhere near the same player



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 15:47 by SteveS.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:47
So after 40 mins of the tactical leadership of our 95 Caps half backs, we have not had one single attack worth its name and no possession whatsoever in their 22., playing with a very strong wind.

Re: LI v Bristol
AlecW 04 October, 2020 15:48
That does it - KXIP v CSK here I come. 0 - 17... then we knock on from the one attack weíve had in 30 mins. Weíre getting pinged off the park (quite justifiably AFAICT)... boring boring boriiiiiiiinnnnnngggggg...! Oh and the Leguizamon moment from Malins was the one highlight.

Gah...!

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 15:49
Steve - or even Elliot Daly.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:53
For two minutes with ball in hand until OHC knocked we looked like a rugby team. For 38 minutes in the rest of the half we were atrocious. Or to be more accurate, Phipps and Jackson were atrocious(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Challow 04 October, 2020 15:54
Why would Loader want to stay with us next season, it wonít do his England prospects any good

Re: LI v Bristol
SixNineOne 04 October, 2020 15:57
Iíve got a great idea for the second half - why donít we try kicking the ball to Piers OíConnor?!!

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 15:59
How about kicking it shorter so we can compete? Mybe against the wind might help

Re: LI v Bristol
mackemII 04 October, 2020 16:00
Does anyone think we might be rolling over to give Bristol a semi-final spot at the expense of Sale? Just a thought.

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 16:05
Wonder what the missed tackle count is. Could be a new club record.

Re: LI v Bristol
FrTed 04 October, 2020 16:07
The sound quality and effects are amazing. It is full of echo just like sitting in the Madejksi Stadium. But without the drums.

Happy days

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 16:18
Too slow to the breakdown and a couple of good chances blown(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 16:19
Second half marginally better, but terrible handling by Tom off 2 moves.

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 16:26
That was brief glimpse of brilliance by OHC

Re: LI v Bristol
Challow 04 October, 2020 16:26
The doomongers like myself have gone very quiet

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 16:27
Great run and try from OHC!

If only we would keep the ball in hand more...

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 16:30
Bris drive a lineout from about 10m to Score another rolling maul try.

7-24

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 16:35
Jackson you @#$%&!!! Look before you pass Stokes had no chance(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 16:39
The Guardian has James Lang as scoring our try. Who the hell is James Lang?

Re: LI v Bristol
HK Phooey 04 October, 2020 16:44
Not sure if suicide rugby is a recognised phrase, but I think we just invented it.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 16:44
Dickson so inconsistent(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
M51 04 October, 2020 16:44
Time to end this. Totally shambolic....

Re: LI v Bristol
cjm. 04 October, 2020 16:47
Quote:
franciscorrigan
Dickson so inconsistent(Sm63)

Agreed. Some bizarre goings on both in reffing and play. The penalty try seemed very out of the blue.

Jackson seems to be far too nervous to control the game and I think he is possibly a root cause of the generally lack of conviction.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 16:48
Would have been a great idea if that kicked had reached Loader rather than going into touch. Definitely dumb but in the context of the match it didn't matter, except to Bristol and Sale(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
ExiledChameleon 04 October, 2020 16:55
Jackson was poor. Hoskins good when he came on (as ever).

I'm not going to name any other players, because the big issue is with our attack, and bar the 10 no other players can be held responsible for it. We run lazy slow screen/option plays without forcing the defenders to commit. We do ridiculously marginal stuff like tip-ons next to contact, where even if the ball isn't knocked on there's no benefit. Since the restart we've failed to come away with any points almost every time we enter the oppo 22, which isn't very often because we keep on kicking away the ball on the halfway line, which leads into another issue. We are horrific in the air, it seems like opponents can expect the vast majority of their contestable kicks back against us.

As a result we end up with next to no possession in the opposition 22, and when we do we're too blunt and inaccurate to actually score.

The players are not the issue, the coaching is. Hopefully there's some P45s getting printed off sharpish.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 17:00
CJM - youíre spot on that we lack conviction in the backs.

Canít remember PJ taking the ball to the line today more than once, and his kicking is generally quite aimless.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 23:11 by Shawshank.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 17:17
We are playing the rugby of ten years ago and everyone else has moved on. Defensively we aren't too bad, except when we cough up dumb penalties on halfway.That leads to the inevitable kick to the corner and the catch and drive, which we are woefully inadequate to combat. We are in need of a 10 who can boss a game in the way Myler did and still does for the Ospreys. Jackson is a little boy lost. For all the moans, Meehan is usually more effective than Phipps, but neither are anything special. We were slow to the breakdowns today, which may be down to most of the team playing a full game against Exeter. It is, however, a recurring problem, especially in the opposition 22. Our attacking ideas seem to rest on loops around and out to the wingers, who then get shut down by the drifting defence. Pitiful. It won't change unless we get some inventiveness in the centre. It's so predictable and easy to defend. We are not in a great position, with the new season just around the corner.(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 04 October, 2020 17:23
Agreed Francis, even under Coventry we at least had the Ďinside ball to Topsy off the line-outĎ move.

Now we all we do is to play the 10 loop move, that was effective in the days of David Duckham but is now utterly irrelevant.

I know we really had nothing to play for today, but even so it was really very depressing.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 04 October, 2020 17:30
Time somebody took the time to analyse the successful attacking moves of other sides, then pick out some that we have the players to replicate them. Dinosaur rugby will have us back in the Championship and then I think we'd go bust, as Crossan and co would stop paying for failure.(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Blarney 04 October, 2020 17:36
Heaping all the blame on Jackson is a bit harsh. He's invariably been getting service from two 9s who have been very inconsistent with their own form, after our forward carriers have failed to make ground and (certainly today) had the very inexperienced and, frankly, anonymous Phil C on his outside.

Neither Loader or OHC, for all their attacking qualities, seem particularly keen to come off their wing and Homer has never been a "sweep into the line" sort of runner. The only strong direct runner he has to pass to is Rona.

What's he supposed to do?

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 04 October, 2020 18:31
Quite appropriate that we finished this season with a yet another embarrassing battering, at least I will get some joy out of use all learning the hard way next season that our coaches are horrendous when we are well adrift from safety and dont have the safety blanket of Saracens 👍

Re: LI v Bristol
Bazzo 04 October, 2020 19:38
Such a badly coached side. Nothing there at all. Plenty of good players out there, the young 9-10 for Bristol compared to our top international 9-10 in Phipps and Jackson was plain to see. We had a full international front row as well. Too many here just for the money.

Re: LI v Bristol
NickK 04 October, 2020 19:56
Quote:
Exilepaul
Quite appropriate that we finished this season with a yet another embarrassing battering, at least I will get some joy out of use all learning the hard way next season that our coaches are horrendous when we are well adrift from safety and dont have the safety blanket of Saracens 👍

If that's what does it for you, what a wonderful day you must have had.

Re: LI v Bristol
ExiledChameleon 04 October, 2020 20:27
It's just the attack coaches' issue really. Defence is okay-ish, if we account for the fact that our best Locks are out, hence why we are awful at mauls.

The players are good enough to be a good attacking side. Back pre-lockdown the dual playmaker 10-12 Myler-Jackson/AN Other axis worked acceptably because we were just copying England's attacking patterns, but since the end of lockdown we've been clueless in attack with absolutely no structure or plan bar lob it out to the wingers and see if they can magic a line break against a coherent defence that's just drifted.

Sport can be pretty simple at times. Appoint dinosaurs, get made extinct.

Re: LI v Bristol
peejay 04 October, 2020 21:39
Good coaching makes average players perform well above their ability, poor coaching seen today.

Re: LI v Bristol
Bazzo 04 October, 2020 22:11
Good coaching gets the best out of what you have. Makes players improve, We are definitely not getting the best out of what we have. Not even close.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 04 October, 2020 22:24
Quote:
Bazzo
Good coaching gets the best out of what you have. Makes players improve, We are definitely not getting the best out of what we have. Not even close.

Here here Bazzo this management lost to Italy in their last ever match with Ireland and that team had Best, Murray O'Driscoll, O'Brien O'Mahony Earl's etc l feel like you could give them a world 15 team and they would struggle, without sounding horrible they need to pass the baton to someone else and enjoy their retirement

Re: LI v Bristol
LI Bohemian 05 October, 2020 12:50
Quote:
Exilepaul
Quote:
Bazzo
Good coaching gets the best out of what you have. Makes players improve, We are definitely not getting the best out of what we have. Not even close.

Here here Bazzo this management lost to Italy in their last ever match with Ireland and that team had Best, Murray O'Driscoll, O'Brien O'Mahony Earl's etc l feel like you could give them a world 15 team and they would struggle, without sounding horrible they need to pass the baton to someone else and enjoy their retirement

Have you any ideas who the baton should be passed to? Or is this just your standard trolling



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2020 12:53 by LI Bohemian.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 05 October, 2020 14:42
Quote:
LI Bohemian
Quote:
Exilepaul
Quote:
Bazzo
Good coaching gets the best out of what you have. Makes players improve, We are definitely not getting the best out of what we have. Not even close.

Here here Bazzo this management lost to Italy in their last ever match with Ireland and that team had Best, Murray O'Driscoll, O'Brien O'Mahony Earl's etc l feel like you could give them a world 15 team and they would struggle, without sounding horrible they need to pass the baton to someone else and enjoy their retirement

Have you any ideas who the baton should be passed to? Or is this just your standard trolling

Dai Young
Joe Schmidt
Jim Mallinder
Stuart Lancaster
Richard Cockerill
Conor Oshea
Johann Ackerman
Kendo

The list is endless as too who would do a better job than the current setup and wouldn't accept these shambolic performances

Re: LI v Bristol
RodB 05 October, 2020 15:18
Lancaster looks happy at leinster and Cockerell at Edinburgh . The rest have been let go or presided over dismall underperformance with stronger squads than ours. Not so endless.....

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 05 October, 2020 15:44
Giselle Mather with Jon Fisher as her No 2.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 05 October, 2020 15:59
Yeah and I heard Kidney saying after the game yesterday our defence was good and I've heard him talking about a 5 year plan... terrifying absolutely terrifying

Re: LI v Bristol
LI Bohemian 05 October, 2020 22:59
Quote:
Exilepaul
Yeah and I heard Kidney saying after the game yesterday our defence was good and I've heard him talking about a 5 year plan... terrifying absolutely terrifying

Forgive me for saying but it all comes across a bit trollish

Re: LI v Bristol
Blarney 06 October, 2020 09:27
You have to laugh really - as asked above, who would the naysayers rather we bring in? Maybe Eddie Jones could be tempted away with a free pint of Guinness?

Even top coaches need time to establish a winning culture at club level - especially when taking over a team that has been as poor as we have over the last few years.

Let's just state some facts:

K&K took over a a team that had been relegated and just been promoted again. A team that, since being promoted, was getting smashed every week and well on its way to being relegated again. A team which, let's remember had gone through three different (unsuccessful) coaching teams in as many seasons.

Job 1 was to secure promotion again: they managed this fairly smoothly, whilst playing some pretty nice rugby.

Job 2 was to start improving the squad: no-one can deny that our squad is now stronger than it was.

Job 3 was to ensure Prem survival: again, achieved. And it could be argued that, without the COVID disruption and Saracens automatic relegation - our late season performances may not have been so disjointed.

Job 4 is to start to refine and shape the squad. This has started with signings like Creevy and the (admittedly accelerated thanks to COVID) development of a lot of our academy players. Whether through necessity or not, Kidney has not been shy about giving the academy lads a chance - something which successive coaches have failed to do...something which has contributed to us losing so much academy talent over the years.

Job 5 starts in November - continuing to build a squad and playing style to ensure that we finish next season higher than this (top 8 should be realistic) and are competitive in most of our games.

Kidney is the first DOR I can remember who had a proven track record before joining us - and some on here want him gone before he's even had a chance to turn round the mess this club had become, let alone start to turn us into a successful team!

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 06 October, 2020 12:07
Very fair comments Blarney.
Until the lockdown we did appear to have improved other than in a couple of serious batterings from teams with rather better squads.
The farcical situation of having to complete a season in the manner decided and with a decimated squad makes it impossible to adequately gauge progress, or the lack of it.
At no time have we been able to field our theoretical best side, but we now have a better idea of which players might be adequate, or otherwise.
I have previously voiced concerns at the apparent lack of attacking ideas, but I am quite prepared to give Kiss and Kidney the benefit of the doubt. Who knows whether or not there may be ideas in the pipeline, but kept under wraps for this "dead rubber" season.
We shall see over the first few weeks of the new season whether we are going to fail, survive, or prosper.
Historically the first two have been the norm, but we always hope for the last.
I expect a virtually fully fit team for the start of the new campaign and I will be reserving judgement until we have played our first two matches.
Fixtures which will probably define our season.(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
x_ile 06 October, 2020 15:15
i've never thought it worth speculating about team prospects until half way through the season, i.e. until everyone has played every other team once.

It probably takes half a season for a team to properly settle down, especially in the current circumstances.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 06 October, 2020 15:45
We can't afford half a season to settle down, as Worcester away and then Leicester at home are two of the other teams likely to be in a relegation dogfight. Lose those and our season will be in a downward spiral from the off(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Bazzo 06 October, 2020 23:17
Quote:
Blarney
You have to laugh really - as asked above, who would the naysayers rather we bring in? Maybe Eddie Jones could be tempted away with a free pint of Guinness?
Even top coaches need time to establish a winning culture at club level - especially when taking over a team that has been as poor as we have over the last few years.

Let's just state some facts:

K&K took over a a team that had been relegated and just been promoted again. A team that, since being promoted, was getting smashed every week and well on its way to being relegated again. A team which, let's remember had gone through three different (unsuccessful) coaching teams in as many seasons.

Job 1 was to secure promotion again: they managed this fairly smoothly, whilst playing some pretty nice rugby.

Job 2 was to start improving the squad: no-one can deny that our squad is now stronger than it was.

Job 3 was to ensure Prem survival: again, achieved. And it could be argued that, without the COVID disruption and Saracens automatic relegation - our late season performances may not have been so disjointed.

Job 4 is to start to refine and shape the squad. This has started with signings like Creevy and the (admittedly accelerated thanks to COVID) development of a lot of our academy players. Whether through necessity or not, Kidney has not been shy about giving the academy lads a chance - something which successive coaches have failed to do...something which has contributed to us losing so much academy talent over the years.

Job 5 starts in November - continuing to build a squad and playing style to ensure that we finish next season higher than this (top 8 should be realistic) and are competitive in most of our games.

Kidney is the first DOR I can remember who had a proven track record before joining us - and some on here want him gone before he's even had a chance to turn round the mess this club had become, let alone start to turn us into a successful team!

Yes, all for stating facts.....

Kiss and Kidney took over a team that got pumped by the biggest margins of the season, when they were in charge.

Job 1 to secure promotion was hard work, must have missed the nice rugby bits. We relied on mauls to dominate teams and had a poor attack. We were a Premiership team with treble the budget of the nearest team in the league. They had no playoffs to contend with and the last game that they played was the championship cup final in Ealing that they lost. If it had been a playoff game we would not have been promoted.

Job 2 was to start improving the squad, they have definitely done this. The squad is way better and so it should be when you are lucky enough to get given a windfall from CVC to spend. Whether the Better squad is playing to Itís full potential is another argument. The policy of going large for huge salary marquee players is also up for argument, Eg Phipps, Kepu, PJ, SOB value for money? The result is lack of depth in the squad as all the money is spent on the high end international player.

Job 3 to ensure Premiership survival, was taken care of by Sarries and PRL. As it turned out they did not need to spend millions on former internationals, they could have saved it as it transpired. None of us know how we would have fared under the pressure cooker of relegation. Relegation survival was not down to the coaches.

Job 4 to refine and shape the squad. It has been evident this calendar year that the squad is all over the show, i assume that we only signed Creevy and Cornish because Motu was injured and Porecki left to go home. Letting Botha go was a loss, letting Steele go was a mistake. Our performances since return from lockdown has been embarrassing. If you are talking about a squad, this was their chance. They only played certain academy players like Cooke, P Cokanasiga, Donnell because they had no other option.

Job 5 starts in November and that is true and if we donít get these star players fit and key ones back from injury then i see the best chance of survival being either ring fencing or Falcons being poor. Of the team that started against Bristol at least 8 or 9 of them would be in your ďbest teamĒ to start the season Dell, Creevy, Kepu, Tuisue, Phipps, Jackson, Rona, Loader, OHC, Homer? and we were miles off Bristol

Kidney and Kiss have now had two and a bit seasons to have a ďchanceĒ To turn the mess around and more importantly have had the biggest windfall ever in the clubs history to play with. No idea when the well runs dry but never remember us ever having a marquee player in the club before and these coaches had that luxury. As for our only ever proven DOR theory, i would much rather an unproven Lee Blackett or a Rob Baxter, I see them improving players.

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 07 October, 2020 12:27
(Sm63)Bazzo
Re Job 1
How many games did you watch? Every team will maul given the chance and to my mind the weak spot in the Championship was the number of defensive lapses, We scored a lot of really good tries that season and played some very attractive attacking rugby.
In the championship Cup final, there were a number of players given a run out as it was their last ever game for Irish. Even so, we did more than enough to win that game after a poor start. If it had been a playoff game, the first choice squad would have played and would have won comfortably.

re job 2
I have never been a great fan of spending money we don't really have on expensive imports that might be here only to enhance their pension pot. I can only assume that this was not just a case of team building, but also a case of marketing for the return to London, given the relatively high profile of most of them. Personally, I would have gone the Sale (and Saracens of yore) way of importing some Saffers, as the are relatively inexpensive and give you great value for money.
Or some South Sea Islanders. Oh, what would I give for another Mapasua.

re job 3
We were going quite well in the league before the Salarymen's relegation announcement and the Covid crisis has made it impossible to say what would have happened without their relegation. The fact remaims that we finished above Leicester and would quite probably have stayed up anyway.

re job 4

Given the financial constraints imposed by the Covid crisis, we probably had no option other than to release players at the end of their contracts. Plus we have no idea whether some players left because of offers of contracts from other clubs. There were several of the leavers who were key members of the squad and I'm sure Kidney would have hung on to any he could have. No wonder performances were poor after the resumption of the season, given the injuries and the number of raw youngsters dropped in at the deep end. We weren't the only team to have a poor end to the season. Plus, if you look back at Worcester's and Leicester's matches, it seemed like they and we were targetted as games to win by other sides, who fielded relatively strong squads against all three of us.

re job 5

Yes 9 first choice players started against Bristol, but thei are 23 in a matchday squad and there's a big difference when you don't have your best 23.
I'm assuming at the start of the season we will have nearly all of our theoretical best 23 available.
As I said in a previous post, we need a good start in the first two games against Worcester and Leicester. Lose those and I will probably start prayng for ring fencing.

As regards Marquee signings, we have had a few over the years, but not a lot to show for it.

Re: LI v Bristol
Bazzo 08 October, 2020 20:24
Cheers Francis, enjoy that pint.

Job 1 watched loads, we were a stronger Premiership squad and i thought that our attack was average. The absolute facts (which is what i was referring to) is that K&K did not have to go through the playoffs to get promoted unlike Kennedys tenure. The other fact is that we lost our last game as a Championship side to Ealing. If we played a different team and would have won is just your opinion.

Job 2 The squad quality is better that is a fact. That is at their disposal due to the money given to spend, that is also a fact.

Job 3 We were not relegated due to Sarries being caught cheating and punished. Fact. Where we would have finished had that not happened is an opinion.

Job 4 our performances post lockdown for those block of games was embarrassing having spent what we have. We had the worst defensive record in the league. That in fairness is my opinion.

Job 5 the team had plenty of first choice players v Bristol that started and indeed on the bench you had plenty on next best (Ellrington for Dell, Hoskins for Kepu, Meehan for Phipps etc) and I maintain that we were hammered. Our last game of the season before Move and we were badly beaten. If Mallins had held onto the ball they would have put 40 points past us and we were lucky to get 7 only for OHC break, we would have been nilled.

We have never had marquee signings before...... how could we have as we have never spent to the cap before? Marquee players sit outside the salary cap as I understand, you are allowed two of them? I am sure that this is a fact, but i could be wrong if we have spent to the salary cap previously. I thought that Mr Facer said that we were spending to the cap for the first time this year.

These coaches are poor and have not delivered good rugby on the pitch and especially for the resources that they have been given to achieve that. But also in fairness...... that is just my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2020 20:47 by Bazzo.

Re: LI v Bristol
M51 08 October, 2020 22:49
I am not renewing my 20/21 season ticket for a number of reasons, mainly about covid, cost and travel. its definitely not about poor performance, I've seen many shockers over the last 18 years (plus some really great ones). However, these last match performances are probably the worst i've seen in those last 18 years. I have to agree with Bazzo that with the CVC money I expected a lot more but the coaches, the players bought and the performances at times have not lived up to any reasonable expectation. To put it mildly these last few defeats have been shocking. I dont know the answers, but hope things improve in the coaching setup and subsequently in team performance. I want to see the new stadium and will probably come to Brentford for a number of games during 2021. I am just another supporter that is not convinced with the management team including the CEO and five year plans. Good luck to all and I really hope Irish can survive in the premiership.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 09 October, 2020 00:11
Quote:
Bazzo
Cheers Francis, enjoy that pint.
Job 1 watched loads, we were a stronger Premiership squad and i thought that our attack was average. The absolute facts (which is what i was referring to) is that K&K did not have to go through the playoffs to get promoted unlike Kennedys tenure. The other fact is that we lost our last game as a Championship side to Ealing. If we played a different team and would have won is just your opinion.

Job 2 The squad quality is better that is a fact. That is at their disposal due to the money given to spend, that is also a fact.

Job 3 We were not relegated due to Sarries being caught cheating and punished. Fact. Where we would have finished had that not happened is an opinion.

Job 4 our performances post lockdown for those block of games was embarrassing having spent what we have. We had the worst defensive record in the league. That in fairness is my opinion.

Job 5 the team had plenty of first choice players v Bristol that started and indeed on the bench you had plenty on next best (Ellrington for Dell, Hoskins for Kepu, Meehan for Phipps etc) and I maintain that we were hammered. Our last game of the season before Move and we were badly beaten. If Mallins had held onto the ball they would have put 40 points past us and we were lucky to get 7 only for OHC break, we would have been nilled.

We have never had marquee signings before...... how could we have as we have never spent to the cap before? Marquee players sit outside the salary cap as I understand, you are allowed two of them? I am sure that this is a fact, but i could be wrong if we have spent to the salary cap previously. I thought that Mr Facer said that we were spending to the cap for the first time this year.

These coaches are poor and have not delivered good rugby on the pitch and especially for the resources that they have been given to achieve that. But also in fairness...... that is just my opinion.

It's not an opinion it's a fact I literally watch every game in the premiership and can tell you a few examples

Example 1. Scott Steele couldnt get a game under K+K but since hes moved to Quins hes been the 2nd best 9 on form in the prem behind Spencer.

Example 2. Tom Homer was lighting it up for Bath before coming to us hes been poor/average since joining us hmmm wonder why?

Example 3. Myler is looking twice the player Jackson is currently and is playing better at Ospreys than he did for us

I've excluded Simmonds but I counted our Squad has 509 international appearances spread among 13 players and these guys dont play for no mark countries we are talking New Zealand, Australia, Ireland internationals we fielded 7 internationals to Bristols 5 in the last game of the season and got beat 7-36 and I can literally name loads of other examples...... the output has been a complete disgrace from everyone for what's in our whole setup

Re: LI v Bristol
ExiledChameleon 09 October, 2020 04:55
Quote:
Exilepaul
Example 1. Scott Steele couldnt get a game under K+K but since hes moved to Quins hes been the 2nd best 9 on form in the prem behind Spencer.
Example 2. Tom Homer was lighting it up for Bath before coming to us hes been poor/average since joining us hmmm wonder why?

Example 3. Myler is looking twice the player Jackson is currently and is playing better at Ospreys than he did for us

I've excluded Simmonds but I counted our Squad has 509 international appearances spread among 13 players and these guys dont play for no mark countries we are talking New Zealand, Australia, Ireland internationals we fielded 7 internationals to Bristols 5 in the last game of the season and got beat 7-36 and I can literally name loads of other examples...... the output has been a complete disgrace from everyone for what's in our whole setup

Personally I agree that the coaching staff are underperforming given the resources available, however your examples are ridiculous.

Steele was average to poor under 3 different coaches.

Homer was okay at Bath, but not a gamebreaker, he's continued in a similar role for us. If he was lighting it up for Bath they wouldn't have released him.

Myler was excellent for us, and we should have kept him, but he is declining, albeit much slower than those making the decisions at LI think.

Given our squad we should be no lower than 4th to 8th. I hope to god that we hire an attack coach in the next couple of weeks. Any more box kicks from us in their half and I'm definitely in line for a massive stroke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2020 04:58 by ExiledChameleon.

Re: LI v Bristol
Shawshank 09 October, 2020 12:06
Agreed on Homer - he showed some signs of regaining some pace in his last few outings at Bath, but to be honest he is still half the player he was for us back in his gilded youth before his knee injury...

Re: LI v Bristol
tonyh50 09 October, 2020 13:52
We definitely need an attack coach for the new season - Quins have just announced that Sean Long is leaving, he has been their specialist attack coach, might be a worthwhile addition to our coaching team?

Re: LI v Bristol
HMRH 09 October, 2020 13:55
Steele playing in post Covid world behind a pack doing better than ours has

Homer left a Bath side on the up and not struggling so in fairness probably a harder position from which to excel at FB

Agree Myler was great but weíve invested in PJ and he needs to play and play well. Doubt we could afford to keep Myler

Donít think weíve been great at all and been some very disappointing results and matches but and itís a big but I accept the logic to put out young players once we knew the situation. We were seriously underpowered and it showed.

Saints away, Bristol away, Wasps away, all show what can happen. Need to be better than we are but letís see after the first 4 rounds of the new season.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 09 October, 2020 14:15
Quote:
tonyh50
We definitely need an attack coach for the new season - Quins have just announced that Sean Long is leaving, he has been their specialist attack coach, might be a worthwhile addition to our coaching team?

The thought of 60 year old Declan Kidney who's as dull as dish water working alongside a loud northern guy with a tattoo of an owl on his throat is absolutely hilarious

Re: LI v Bristol
HMRH 09 October, 2020 14:37
Thanks exilepaul a well thought out and reasoned post. Only a shame I wasted time reading it

Re: LI v Bristol
paddym 09 October, 2020 14:53
Quote:
Exilepaul
Quote:
tonyh50
We definitely need an attack coach for the new season - Quins have just announced that Sean Long is leaving, he has been their specialist attack coach, might be a worthwhile addition to our coaching team?

The thought of 60 year old Declan Kidney who's as dull as dish water working alongside a loud northern guy with a tattoo of an owl on his throat is absolutely hilarious

Shows youíve obviously never met Declan then. Dull as dish water is far removed from his persona.
TBH you never have anything positive to say on this site so you should really move on somewhere else and troll another team.

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 09 October, 2020 15:07
Quote:
paddym
Quote:
Exilepaul
Quote:
tonyh50
We definitely need an attack coach for the new season - Quins have just announced that Sean Long is leaving, he has been their specialist attack coach, might be a worthwhile addition to our coaching team?

The thought of 60 year old Declan Kidney who's as dull as dish water working alongside a loud northern guy with a tattoo of an owl on his throat is absolutely hilarious

Shows youíve obviously never met Declan then. Dull as dish water is far removed from his persona.
TBH you never have anything positive to say on this site so you should really move on somewhere else and troll another team.

Nope I'll stay thanks and if you dont like what I say or cant handle the truth maybe you should move on or dont read my comments

Re: LI v Bristol
GHA 09 October, 2020 15:33
Quote:
Exilepaul
Nope I'll stay thanks and if you dont like what I say or cant handle the truth maybe you should move on or dont read my comments

Haha

I enjoyed the past couple of weeks. Go anywhere nice?

Re: LI v Bristol
GHA 09 October, 2020 15:36
Quote:
Bazzo
Job 3 We were not relegated due to Sarries being caught cheating and punished. Fact. Where we would have finished had that not happened is an opinion.

Exeter weren't relegated because of Saracens' cheating and punishment too then?

Re: LI v Bristol
HMRH 09 October, 2020 16:51
Above Leicester - fact not opinion

Re: LI v Bristol
GHA 09 October, 2020 17:09
Quote:
HMRH
Above Leicester - fact not opinion

And above Saracens if they'd only been given their original 35 point reduction

Re: LI v Bristol
franciscorrigan 09 October, 2020 17:28
It was a typically Irish season and 10th would have kept us in the Prem regardless of the Salarymen. Some great results and some serious thrashings, which is nothing new for us. Apart from a couple of standout seasons in the past, that's pretty much what we expect most years. Historically we win only 40% of Prem games, so 8 or 9 wins is about it.
However, we now have a side that on paper looks good and we should have every reason to expect a finish in at least 6/7th place. That of course, will depend on the bulk of our relatively small squad staying injury free.
Saying that, 10th next season and survival would be our usual definition of success(Sm63)

Re: LI v Bristol
Exilepaul 09 October, 2020 22:01
Quote:
franciscorrigan
It was a typically Irish season and 10th would have kept us in the Prem regardless of the Salarymen. Some great results and some serious thrashings, which is nothing new for us. Apart from a couple of standout seasons in the past, that's pretty much what we expect most years. Historically we win only 40% of Prem games, so 8 or 9 wins is about it.
However, we now have a side that on paper looks good and we should have every reason to expect a finish in at least 6/7th place. That of course, will depend on the bulk of our relatively small squad staying injury free.
Saying that, 10th next season and survival would be our usual definition of success(Sm63)

We finished 11th I dont count Saracens. Why do we have to expect it tho? Bristol were in the championship 2 seasons ago and are 1 game away from a premiership final and Exeter were in the championship 10 seasons ago and are the verge of being the best club side in Europe. We are who we are because theres no appetite to improve what so ever and complete apathy from everyone especially our fans no matter if we win, lose or get relegated

Re: LI v Bristol
GHA 09 October, 2020 22:12
Quote:
Exilepaul
We are who we are because theres no appetite to improve what so ever and complete apathy from everyone especially our fans no matter if we win, lose or get relegated

From everyone except you, presumably?

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