Northampton Saints

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/03/2025 08:45 by Saint Ted.

🤞 that Saints are really, really, really up for this as they’ll need to be 😬

If you were to pick a combined 15, trying to not be biased, you would prob go for this:

15. Steward
14. Can't pick between Ramm and Radwan
13. Dingwall
12. Hutchinson
11. Hassell-Collins
10. Can't pick between Smith and Pollard (Tigers fans will prob laugh at this, but I think the form Smith is in, you could arguably say that he is now the better)
9. Van Poortvliet

1. Smith
2. Montoja
3. Heyes
4. Mayanavanua
5. Lockett
6. Kemeny
7. Can't pick between Pearson and Reffell
8. Augustus

So that's 6 players from each side.

I do think though that our bench is stronger, with the impact of Pollock, Odendaal, Coles, Haffar in particular.

And maybe I'm kidding myself given where we are in the league, but I think our side has more cohesion.

And then we have home advantage. And on a Friday night, when we've traditionally been strong.

5 points needed from this.

And from where we are in the league and where we want to be, we also need to stop the awful habit we have of gifting bonus points to our opponents.

Quote:

Londonsaint
If you were to pick a combined 15, trying to not be biased, you would prob go for this:
15. Steward
14. Can't pick between Ramm and Radwan
13. Dingwall
12. Hutchinson
11. Hassell-Collins
10. Can't pick between Smith and Pollard (Tigers fans will prob laugh at this, but I think the form Smith is in, you could arguably say that he is now the better)
9. Van Poortvliet

1. Smith
2. Montoja
3. Heyes
4. Mayanavanua
5. Lockett
6. Kemeny
7. Can't pick between Pearson and Reffell
8. Augustus

So that's 6 players from each side.

I do think though that our bench is stronger, with the impact of Pollock, Odendaal, Coles, Haffar in particular.

And maybe I'm kidding myself given where we are in the league, but I think our side has more cohesion.

And then we have home advantage. And on a Friday night, when we've traditionally been strong.

Steward over Hendy?!

Will we be able to get enough good ball up front? Also slightly worried the back line looks similar to that destroyed by Ealing.

Hopefully they will be firing on all cylinders and the home crowd and stronger bench will see us through. I can see us possibly winning by a good few points if it all clicks but equally I can see them strangling the life out of us up front and us trying to force everything as we are prone to do when things aren't working.

I worry about scrum time but I think saints will come out on top Friday night. Atmosphere should be brilliant

Two stronger sides than I thought, you at home means the Tigers are the underdogs

Just make sure we don't knock on and the scrum isn't a problem!

Tigers are without their first choice locks. How much impact do locks really have on a scrum's dominance? Is it mainly forward driving force?
The fact that we have our 4 1st choice locks available, should that not help secure our scrum?

Henderson is a class act at lock and Wells is a solid performer.
I hope we don’t see you with the ball too much. 0-3 dullfest is just what the dr ordered

Quote:

ajack
Will we be able to get enough good ball up front? Also slightly worried the back line looks similar to that destroyed by Ealing.
Hopefully they will be firing on all cylinders and the home crowd and stronger bench will see us through. I can see us possibly winning by a good few points if it all clicks but equally I can see them strangling the life out of us up front and us trying to force everything as we are prone to do when things aren't working.

I think we had a big disconnect in midfield that Ealing exploited.
Having smith and Dingwall there makes it so much stronger.

Quote:

ajack
Will we be able to get enough good ball up front? Also slightly worried the back line looks similar to that destroyed by Ealing.

Ealing
James Hutch Savala Lichfield
Seabrook Hendy Ramm

Tigers
James Fin Smith Fraser Dingwall hutch
Seabrook Hendy Ramm

A 10 playing at 10 a 12 at 12 and a 13 at 13.

The backs are completely different, two starting internationals are miles apart. That that line up against Tailenders

Five of the seven starters are exactly the same, that to me is similar. Savala is the biggest difference to me Litchfield is an experienced squad player. Also I doubt Ealing had too many multiple world cup winners in their backline.

Makepeace Cubitt obviously not judged ready yet at this level for the 23, relying on Hutch?

Quite worried about scrum-half cover (forgive me, do not know the lad), esp. given the Tigers bench 9...

Also I'll echo Stopsy's comments re Leics 2nd row: have always been impressed by the grit of Wells jnr - and that family knows a thing about Tigers heritage!

Quote:

Harpole Saint

Quote:

ajack
Will we be able to get enough good ball up front? Also slightly worried the back line looks similar to that destroyed by Ealing.

Ealing
James Hutch Savala Lichfield
Seabrook Hendy Ramm

Tigers
James Fin Smith Fraser Dingwall hutch
Seabrook Hendy Ramm

A 10 playing at 10 a 12 at 12 and a 13 at 13.

The backs are completely different, two starting internationals are miles apart. That that line up against Tailenders

Savala has only played in the centres this season, mostly at 12 so i think its fair to say he is a 12 now. and Litch is a 13 so not really sure what you mean by a 12 at 12 etc?

Makepeace Cubitt will be playing against Sale I should think

---

This game should tell us a lot. Given the quality selected (first choice pack), good conditions, home advantage and this is against Tigers there aren’t any excuses. Time to play like reigning champions. COYS!!!

[/quote]Savala has only played in the centres this season, mostly at 12 so i think its fair to say he is a 12 now. and Litch is a 13 so not really sure what you mean by a 12 at 12 etc?[/quote]

Savala has according to all rugby made 49 appearance. If we assume 22 means he came on as a 10 and 23 means centre that has 38 appearances at fly half and 11 in the centres.

Yes he may have played at centre this year but I still think in a game he’s maybe not as comfortable as a hutch there.

Litch is a centre but the combo of smith hutch m1 is a lot more settled familiar in the spine of the backline and that should eminent outwards and I believe would change how the rest of the backs preform. (Hopefully).

IMO those three playing where they are playing should make the difference from losing to Ealing to scrapping back into top 4 !!!!

Nervous about this one given how strong the Tiger's team looks on paper. Although Kata and Perese are always good for a yellow/red card especially in the cauldron of a derby match.

Wells isn't a jnr, or related to any other famous players.

For me Smith and Dingwall is a massive difference in terms of leadership and cohesion in the backs - fingers crossed Smith stays fit and firing as we are light until Furbank is back (which doesn't sound too far away?).

Should be a cracking game as long as we can keep 9&10 on the pitch for most of it (or get so far ahead we can rest them......).

A real shame both teams did not have their 1st choice team available. Slightly more players available this time over the 1st game against them.

Quote:

Londonsaint
If you were to pick a combined 15, trying to not be biased, you would prob go for this:
15. Steward
14. Can't pick between Ramm and Radwan
13. Dingwall
12. Hutchinson
11. Hassell-Collins
10. Can't pick between Smith and Pollard (Tigers fans will prob laugh at this, but I think the form Smith is in, you could arguably say that he is now the better)
9. Van Poortvliet

1. Smith
2. Montoja
3. Heyes
4. Mayanavanua
5. Lockett
6. Kemeny
7. Can't pick between Pearson and Reffell
8. Augustus

So that's 6 players from each side.

I do think though that our bench is stronger, with the impact of Pollock, Odendaal, Coles, Haffar in particular.

And maybe I'm kidding myself given where we are in the league, but I think our side has more cohesion.

And then we have home advantage. And on a Friday night, when we've traditionally been strong.

Smith better than Pollard 😂

Pollard yesterday’s man.

Hostage to fortune the above two posts. They are both fine players and Fin is certainly playing with a back line that is more threatening

One ticket still available - see Saints Sinners Ticket Exchange on FB

Good luck to both teams, fingers crossed for an incident free game and it’s not Mr Woodthorpe and his team making the headlines!

Liebenbergs cloak of invisibility seems to be working well! It’s all a big predictable to start with ..

This could be a cricket score. Very poor so far.

I do think the biggest change this year has been the return to the 2023 defence. It’s all a bit pants.

This is an absolute disgrace.

Looks like a team who haven’t started the season yet, totally inept in everything they have done so far.
13 mins and three tries down, totally embarrassing.
Error strewn and so glad I never made the trip tonight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2025 19:54 by JohnI.

Slow start Saints

Seems to be a recurring problem

Let’s hold on to half time
Get a telling off

Then come out a different team second half

Groundhog Day!

How do we keep getting the return to play so wrong? No precision! No intensity! We treat it like a pre-season friendly. And the opposition tear us a new one!

The only thing working is the kick off! Sadly lots of practice.

Dessaint is right need to get to half time now and sort this out.

Quote:

Deesaint
Slow start Saints
Seems to be a recurring problem

Let’s hold on to half time
Get a telling off

Then come out a different team second half

Along with a complete change in our defensive strategy.

Josh Kemeny is the only one who has turned up! Need to get Pollock on asap to add some intensity



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2025 20:21 by northampton_lad.

Well, in summary, absolute rubbish in every facet of the game. No bite, accuracy., plan or passion. Looks like 10 weekend in the sun loungers hasn’t helped.

Well, time for a Lazarus like rising from this nonsense’

Sadly, very predictable 🙄 Will we salvage anything from the second half?

🙈🤷🏼‍♂️

So - pollock doing very well !! But how was that NOT a no-arms tackle on the line !! Yeesh!!!

Better in 2nd half.

Still struggling to catch, pass, kick and tackle but it is a sign of how bad the first half was, that this is better!!

Frankly I don’t care how obnoxious Pollock is. Maybe some of the other players could do with getting on his wavelength. He looks like the only one capable of driving standards amidst far too much mediocrity from other much more experienced players.

It’s hard to not swear. Not really been on it all season so no reason for it to change now. Absolutely the worst performance from saints I have ever seen. Ever.

What a stupid play, a penalty where you can get 30 m up field and pollock takes a tap inside 22 with 5 players in front of him.
Don’t care how well he did in the 6 N that was absolutely foolish and skipper need to take charge of him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2025 21:23 by JohnI.

The lowest point of an absolutely abject title defence?

Wow complete embarrassment looked foreword to the premiership returning for so long and the game was as good as over after 13 minutes. So many stupid errors and none existent defence. It looked like they were trying to get the bonus point and rushing from the 1st minute lots of unnecessary offload attempts and handling errors.

I'm in Paris, just got back to hotel after a nice evening to see the score...was the game as bad as the scoreline suggests??

Scrap that, just seen some of this thread and a few messages from pals on a saints group, sounds awful and glad I missed it, not sure I will be watching the highlights...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2025 21:31 by herbie85.

No it was worse 🙄

I rate him but the commentary on Pollock before he crossed the sideline annoyed me, his gift of the tbp didn’t.

I think the fans deserve an apology after that shambles!

I suppose tigers two friendly games certainly paid off while we were just messing about

---

Quote:

herbie85
I'm in Paris, just got back to hotel after a nice evening to see the score...was the game as bad as the scoreline suggests??
Scrap that, just seen some of this thread and a few messages from pals on a saints group, sounds awful and glad I missed it, not sure I will be watching the highlights...

It was worse than the scoreline - it's perhaps telling of where Tigers are that it took them 75 minutes to get a bonus point against the shower that we were tonight. Bath or Sarries would have buried us.

When you lose 5 experienced players, with injuries and 6 nations, this was always going to happen, not played for 3 weeks and the England boys have been away for 10 weeks
It’s a derby and nobody looked interested
But it’s ok, rather than negotiate contracts, Mark Darbon was off at pre school getting our new badge designed
That was clearly more important
Today was a new low

Well, the one word answer is ABJECT.

Saints can big this whole ‘Derby under the Friday Night Lights’ carp as much as they like but if the team fail to turn up then the result is a forgone conclusion. Leicester looked as though they wanted it more and should be kicking themselves for not scoring fifty points. Injuries aside they put out pretty much their strongest team who had the advantage of a friendly against Munster last week to clear out the cobwebs - Saints looked like a team who had not played much since the end of January and who had been turned over by Ealing. It’s a hard fact that tonight’s Saints starting line-up contains at least half a dozen players who could at best be called journeymen. Throw in an understandably tired outside half and a full back having a bit of a mare………enough.

If the play offs were not gone before tonight, then they are certainly gone now. Put out a second string against Sale next week and get your act together for the European game the week after - with no relegation, it’s all that’s left to play for after all.

I’m not sure all is as it should be at Saints
And this performance just makes me more nervous

Utterly @#$%& tonight. I’m more concerned of two things; our defence is now rubbish again. Is Lee Radford ok? Also, we need fresh investment as if reports are true we are nowhere near the cap, because we can’t afford to be. We need extra cash from other sponsors or be (I know this will be unpopular) bought out by external owners like in Football. We need to ditch the project EPQ 1-23 and get some cheaper but massive saffers in to get us on the front foot again.
So rubbish tonight…they did not look remotely on it.

Abject describes that "performance" perfectly. Following the game against Ealing, I thought we'd see a response from Saints. I was excited by the team selection and thought we had a good chance of a home win (or fight for it, at least). Instead, we saw a similar performance to that of Ealing and a side that showed a lack of commitment to the cause bar only a few individuals. I wonder what is going wrong with the team's preparation for game day and like Deesaint, I wonder if all is well, behind the scenes.

We got completely humped by a very average Leicester. That's not good. Three tries gifted by coughed up knock ons. Making Steward look classy. And drizzly walking back to town!

Quote:

riverlodge
We got completely humped by a very average Leicester. That's not good. Three tries gifted by coughed up knock ons. Making Steward look classy. And drizzly walking back to town!

"a very average Leicester".... aren't Saints 8th?

Throwing out a few thoughts before bed....

One word summary: unacceptable.

Where was the leadership tonight? If it was there, I didn't notice it, especially in the first half. Who was reading the riot act, other than the coaches at half time?

Thought we were crazy to turn down a fairly straightforward kick at goal less than 30 seconds in. Shortly afterwards we made the first of our 26 (!) knock ons.

The crowd - started OK but quickly fell flat due to performance on the pitch, with a few attempts to get going through the rest of the game but with little enthusiasm really. I was a little surprised that the Tigers supporters weren't louder, but perhaps they couldn't believe what was happening either! Once again, I'm not convinced the light show works for us, especially if we can't at least dim the floodlights. I'm sure it served to dampen the atmosphere from the crowd somewhat, and I'm equally sure that the same effect was had last time the light show was tried. And then the quality of the rugby on the pitch dampens the atmosphere further. With hindsight I should have followed my gut and left at half time, as I wasn't enjoying the rugby at all, I've never felt like doing that before.

We didn't get to applaud the players in after the game either. Not sure I remember that happening before. Saints perhaps worried about boos from the supporters left who hadn't exited the Gardens as quickly as possible after (or before!) the full-time whistle?

Also: this amused me [x.com] - 'unbeatable' indeed! All the talk this week of this being the first playoff final of potentially many, and we fall so humiliatingly at the first hurdle. We'd better enjoy what's left of the Champions Cup too, because were out of the running for that currently and that doesn't look like changing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2025 00:41 by Matthew.

So many good players in the squad....so many poor performances this season... time to question coaching and management methinks 🤔

Quote:

riverlodge
We got completely humped by a very average Leicester. That's not good. Three tries gifted by coughed up knock ons. Making Steward look classy. And drizzly walking back to town!

Steward’s not the one showing a lack of class….

Quote:

Connorman
Pollard yesterday’s man.

you were saying 😂

Falcons, Quins and Bristol have all been nilled once this season.
I'm not sure I can remember a season recently where three bigger clubs have been.

Good morning Saints supporters,

Unfortunately these games happen occasionally and whilst I will delight in the score and the Fire Alarm at 70 minutes, I still think Saints are a very good side.

Cheika said after the match he had learnt from the AI break and our Match against Munster got rid of the rust, which Saints definitely were for the first 15 minutes. Lesson 1 for Dowson?

Hendy just had one of those nights and then you start trying to hard, he’s still a class player!

Apart from the one act of desperation, Pollock showed what a player he’s going to be!

Appreciate you were playing catch up by this point but when the weather changed there was no change of game plan! Augustus and Langdon needed to stick it up their jumper for a bit! Team and Coaches just seemed shell shocked!

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Quote:

A2O

Quote:

Connorman
Pollard yesterday’s man.

you were saying 😂

Works as a quote this morning though 🤣

A few classless comments on here, but will put those down to disappointment!

Had it been Furbank making the break that Steward made you would have been raving about it.

Out of respect and knowing what Saints are capable of in terms of comebacks, Tigers took the Penalties to keep the scoreboard rolling rather than going for the TBP, personally think this was good leadership.

Yes we are still pretty average but thought our attack took a step forward (from a very low baseline) and Woodward at 12 played well. Our defence considering new defence coach and all the shenanigans off the pitch was good.

Time to forget about the league and focus on clermont . Whilst we are miles away from winning Europe clearly there is a home last 8 at stake which financially will help the club and clermont are very beatable. Need to go full strength against sale to prep for the week after as looked like they had all just met last night. Whilst we were awful and I don't remember ever being that bad tigers just did what they needed to do and they did it very well and made it look easy. Nothing flash just simple rugby done very well. Catch , pass, compete , be physical and most of all they were just smarter than we were . When they got that early lead and then the rain come down they excuted the game plan really well.

I think what we saw from Tigers is the true Chieka model, as St Dolph says above, the simple things done very well with physicality. I’d be very surprised if Saints ever cough up so much possession again in a single match.

Unfortunately rugby is a game of momentum. The momentum went against us early through basic mistakes, Pollock almost wrestled it back single handedly around 55 mins, but a series of 3 or 4 knock ons killed it again. When you're chasing the game in the rain, mistakes are much more likely. I think the biggest concern is the lack of gainline success (partly due to Leicester defence), which then lead to slow ruck ball behind or on the gainline. This means players like Fin and Dingers have to force offloads in traffic to try and create an opportunity. So much of our game depends on quick ball and breaking the gainline. We generally run teams off their feet. We couldn't do that last night. There were also some dozy defensive errors, particularly in the guard position around the ruck. Our forward carriers need to make more ground in general, not die with the ball and concede a turnover. We should have also controlled the game and played the percentages better early on, in order to regain a foothold, rather than force it when we had plenty of time remaining.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2025 09:26 by undersizedprop2.

I was at the theatre last night (Carrie, the musical. Not sure where the most blood was spilt..) and actually forgot all about the match until I got home. Probably just as well I didn’t make the trip. I’m coming to the Clermont game so I really hope they sort things out as it could be an (other) embarrassment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/03/2025 12:27 by Buzzer.

Tigers forwards looked so much more up for it and ours didn’t.
Langdon has gone off the boil. Ditto Pearson. Our back row was anonymous.
JVP out shone James.
So frustrated with it all

Got completely duffed up on the gainline and in the scrum so backs had no platform. As the saying goes a good big one beats a good little one. We massively lack heft in pack. No coincidence we looked better with Odendaal on in second half.

So would leicester supporters being together in one area/ their choice/ made any difference to thew atmosphere

It seemed to me to be the performance of a team that know they will not make the playoffs and also know there is no relegation

The scrum wasn't horrendous, but agree Leicester edged it. Trevor is not quite operating at the level he once did, Manny held up relatively well, though I think with the right coaching he could really make use of all his athleticism and power. I was impressed with Luke Green (particularly in the face of Dan Cole's silly antics). I think he deserves a shot at starting.

Quote:

WesternWanderer
Got completely duffed up on the gainline and in the scrum so backs had no platform. As the saying goes a good big one beats a good little one. We massively lack heft in pack. No coincidence we looked better with Odendaal on in second half.

I understand our pack weight was more than Tigers

Perhaps it’s more that old saying

It’s not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog

One more thing I'd note is that we looked done for pace in last night's team until Pollock came on. See JVP's kick through, and I'm still note quite sure how OHC didn't score in the corner in the second half when all he seemed to need to do was gather the ball on the floor.

The ball bounced backwards for OHC otherwise I think he would have scored

27 handling errors, game was gone after first quarter. Held Tigs out till HP’s error. There was a lot of effort out there, Hendy ran himself into the ground as usual & wasn’t the only one.