Latest news:

The Unofficial Northampton Saints Supporters' Message Board




Ruck Rumour
Discussion started by Saint Stokey , 14 February, 2020 10:42
Ruck Rumour
Saint Stokey 14 February, 2020 10:42
Ben Earl

So this has come around again. Earl is likely to want to be 1sty choice. This would be a great signing for us. Would provide cover/ options at 7 and 8. Means Gibson & Wood can focus on 6 with Earl, Ludlam and Harrison rotating between 7 & 8. We still have Coles, Tonks, Lawes who can all play 6 should Woody decide to call time on things.

Re: Ruck Rumour
tedge 14 February, 2020 12:11
Can we even begin to compete with Bristol these days ?

Re: Ruck Rumour
Abington Adam 14 February, 2020 12:15
Probably not when it comes to marquee signings, but for anyone else we should be able to, it all comes down to cap room.



COME ON YOU SAINTS!
Church's Stand season ticket holder
EMRU Referee

Re: Ruck Rumour
St. Andy 14 February, 2020 12:32
With Eadie going and Woody carrying on being an unknown we do seem to be a bit short on numbers in the back row. Surely someone must be in the pipeline. Of course the rumour could always be someone seeing our apparent need and his apparent availability and putting the two together.
And of course itís brilliant for an agent to have a bidding war.

Re: Ruck Rumour
smitferbrainz 14 February, 2020 12:42
How do Bristol afford all these players?

Re: Ruck Rumour
Awaywin 14 February, 2020 12:48
I would imagine the number of long serving players are a lot fewer at Bristol. Imagine someone like Tom Wood who has been at the club a number of years, a club captain and an international is going to command significant wages and most likely increase contract on contract. Pat Lam did a pretty good job of explaining this.

Re: Ruck Rumour
craig84 14 February, 2020 13:15
seems a good solid player, not a huge 8 but intelligent and reads the game well.
with his potential and Boyd and co's coaching could be a great player for us, definitely worth it to me.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Wilson Pickett 14 February, 2020 13:23
Quote:
smitferbrainz
How do Bristol afford all these players?


Because the core of their squad are journeymen

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Robert 14 February, 2020 13:28
They've also got 24 players out of contract at the end of this season so that must free up a few quid.

Re: Ruck Rumour
St. Andy 14 February, 2020 13:33
Quote:
Saint Robert
They've also got 24 players out of contract at the end of this season so that must free up a few quid.
Yes but presumably they are going to need to keep a good many of them and if not they will need to sign replacements and they will need to be paid too. Plus those they are retaining will probably want a raise due to now being established in the Premiership.

Re: Ruck Rumour
elegia 14 February, 2020 13:55
local paper article on how Bristol stay under the cap

most of our players are pick me ups from elsewhere that are improving (just as your youngsters are) with experience with a smattering of guys with proven track records
will be interesting to see how many are retained in a year or two



http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2011/7/13/1310579502636/New-Order-left-to-right-G-007.jpg

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Tim 14 February, 2020 15:40
I would suspect that players wages follow some sort of bell curve.

Academy players (wandies)
Academy players (finge first team)
Junior first team
Good journey man
Senior (mid playing years) players
Current Internationals.

This is probably the max.

Senior players\ex internationals - approaching end of career
Final contracts for seniors - becomming more injury prone etc.

Obviously broad brush but listening to Hasks on the podcast where he was saying each renewal they tried to offer him less then I am sure there is something to it.

Re: Ruck Rumour
JohnI 14 February, 2020 15:44
Quote:
smitferbrainz
How do Bristol afford all these players?

Simply put, they have the backing of Lansdowne and can probably spend up to the maximum within the cap without needing to concern themselves about where the other money is coming from in respect of ground refurbishment , equipment etc. A lot of other clubs wonít get near to the cap limit because they still need to balance the books elsewhere and not just player salaries.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Deesaint 14 February, 2020 16:51
Quote:
JohnI
Quote:
smitferbrainz
How do Bristol afford all these players?

Simply put, they have the backing of Lansdowne and can probably spend up to the maximum within the cap without needing to concern themselves about where the other money is coming from in respect of ground refurbishment , equipment etc. A lot of other clubs wonít get near to the cap limit because they still need to balance the books elsewhere and not just player salaries.

As has been shown with Saracens, no one seems to know which clubs are close to the cap and those that are a long way short (Let alone those over), although, I do recall an article last year that seemed to have some form of insight and reckoned that Sale where the only club that where a good amount below the cap, although they seemed to have done their best recently to rectify that position.
I don't fully accept the Bristol argument of journeymen, young players etc. If that was the case then we must be considerably below the cap with the amount of newly promoted academy players.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Wilson Pickett 14 February, 2020 17:27
Furbank starting international

Lewis starting or bench

Moon, Dingwall and Mitchell international squad

Hutch international squad

Re: Ruck Rumour
Deesaint 14 February, 2020 17:33
That doesnít make sense
If a player moves from academy to senior team he is paid a certain amount - wonít be high
If that player gets recognised by England during first year of senior team are you suggesting that their existing contract is ripped up and a new one involving much higher pay put in place

Re: Ruck Rumour
Wilson Pickett 14 February, 2020 18:02
No I am just saying whenever they are next negotiated, it will be possibly double the current level or more. Mainly driven by demand from other clubs.


Of course this is rugby so we are all guessing

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Tim 14 February, 2020 20:17
Or their contract had clauses for additional pay based on performance - such as getting an international cap.

These are the sorts of things that lead to accidental overspends on the cap.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Dragonboy 15 February, 2020 00:19
Quote:
Saint Tim
Or their contract had clauses for additional pay based on performance - such as getting an international cap.
These are the sorts of things that lead to accidental overspends on the cap.

The rules are fixed and known. Accidental overspends on the cap are irrelevant. An overspend is an overspend.

Iím sorry mummy I didnít mean to do it doesnít work in the business world

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Ted 15 February, 2020 06:59
Which is why there is an overspend run over allowance of £350k

Re: Ruck Rumour
Deesaint 15 February, 2020 08:08
I presume if they are recognised by England they also get paid by England
Do they get paid if they just attend training or do they have to be in the match day 23

Re: Ruck Rumour
tedge 15 February, 2020 09:40
Quote:
Saint Ted
Which is why there is an overspend run over allowance of £350k

So in effect the cap is not £7 million but £7.35 million - that's equal to one player's very good salary or 2 /3 lesser paid ones ?

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Tim 15 February, 2020 09:49
There is a fine for going over the cap by up to £350k but there are no other penalties.

Quins had this a couple of years back.

See here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/02/2020 09:50 by Saint Tim.

Re: Ruck Rumour
tedge 15 February, 2020 10:18
Not a good idea to do it accidentally on purpose then !

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Tim 15 February, 2020 11:20
I suspect it is something you have to explain why and look to not do it again. If you did it every year I think there would be reprocussions.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Saint Ted 15 February, 2020 12:56
The cap is complicated as to how much it actually is as it will vary depending on criteria.

So for this year, itís £6.4m for senior players and £100k for the academy.

On top of that you can get up to £600k for home grown players at £50k per player.

On top of that, you get £40k per year for EPS squad members plus £5k for each match that they miss of senior games (premiership and European cup)

However for those players you can only take a max credit of £80k, so letís take Furbank as an example, £50k home grow credit, £40k for EPS and so far £10k for two prem matches missed. Thatsís £100k, but thatís capped at £80k.

Thatís how I read it anyway.

The £350k overrun tax, you get charged 50p per £1 over the cap for the first £50k, £1 for every £1 between £50k and £200k then £3 per £1 over £200k.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/02/2020 13:09 by Saint Ted.

Re: Ruck Rumour
Neil-H 16 February, 2020 09:00
Thatís my understanding to Ted

Personally Iíd like the £600k to increase and the cap increased if itís a home grown player make international? So you have 3 level of credits earnt : Home grown, international and hone grown international is a combination of both but higher than either of the others on own.... ie you get considerably more credit for home grown international than one thatís was signed later in career

Ofc Iíd happily lower the base level cap or lose marquee status and maybe increase academy and minimum squad?

It encourages club to invest in academies, but will also allow them to keep the players as they develop and salary demands rightly go up? At present being able to offer 80k pay increase and not affecting salary cap for someone who came through your academy and now an international isnít much and is t that much of an incentive to coubs


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?