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Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 11:26
Yes, we don't want to help an owner who has corrupted the league for years


Ampthill no problem

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
fleetg 15 March, 2020 11:28
Just personal opinion Dave.
I don't want to see it happen.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 11:33
Dee, of course as an individual he would be welcomed warmly. That's separate to supporting the policy.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Statesman 15 March, 2020 11:35
I understand he's out of contract soon. So he'll be signing a new 3 year contract with Saracens the first year of which will be spent elsewhere.
Reason for Saints to do it - if we don't someone else will.
Reason for Saints not to do it - because it's facilitating the continuation of the corrupt business model at Saracens. If nobody does the loans the squad will inevitably break up.
Interesting dilemma - good player though!

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Walks11 15 March, 2020 11:47
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Very disappointing if true. I would be more impressed with the player if he nailed his colours to Saracens and accepted a year in the second tier with a pay cut if necessary.

The guys going out on loan are fringe England players, they need to be playing in the top flight otherwise they will potentially miss out. If you take the politics out of it, Mallins, Earl and Isiekwe on loan is a good decision for the individual. Older players with no international aspirations will no doubt either move on completely or take a year in the championship

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Dave Berko 15 March, 2020 11:55
Quote:
Walks11
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Very disappointing if true. I would be more impressed with the player if he nailed his colours to Saracens and accepted a year in the second tier with a pay cut if necessary.

The guys going out on loan are fringe England players, they need to be playing in the top flight otherwise they will potentially miss out. If you take the politics out of it, Mallins, Earl and Isiekwe on loan is a good decision for the individual. Older players with no international aspirations will no doubt either move on completely or take a year in the championship

Exactly. Might be a good decision for the receiving clubs, albeit for the short term as well.

I'm sure Chris Boyd, Pat Lam et al know what they're doing.

Oh, and to reassure a few, I wasn't in anyway trying to be provocative. We're all Rugby fans after all.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
fleetg 15 March, 2020 12:07
I think we understand you weren't trying to be provocative Dave and it's a good discussion point. The response on here however (albeit an extremely small sample) is heavily weighted in the "we don't want to see it happen" camp.
As WP stated, if he comes he will be welcomed regardless of agreeing with it in principle.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Brackleysaint 15 March, 2020 13:12
Perhaps Boyd has his eye on another player that will be available in 12 months time and sees this as good stop gap?

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Dragonboy 15 March, 2020 13:26
And donít forget we have a space to fill with Joel Kpokuís change of heart so a lock does appear to have been on Boydyís shopping list for this year.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Maul 15 March, 2020 13:32
I didn't have a strong view before reading posts on previous threads highlighting any loan would aid Sarries retain playing; only provide a single year solution and give Sarries insider info.

I rate Isiekwe but the points posters have made for the negatives seem pretty persuasive.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Bletchley Saint 15 March, 2020 15:33
I think he should be welcomed with opened arms... I get the point about Saracens being able to keep their squad intact for the 2021/22 season and benefiting from the knowledge the returning players will bring. But, whether we take Nick Isiekwe on loan or not it is very unlikely to make any real difference to Saracensí overall position going into the 2021/22 season as enough players have already been given opportunities with other clubs to give them that advantage.

As others have said, he is a good player who plays in a position where we know Saints need to recruit. Even if he is committed to Saracens for another year or two after he returns, he is young enough to still be a recruitment target if the form is still there when he next becomes available. Letís hope he enjoys his time at Franklinís Gardens and we enjoy having him. (Sm42)

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint For Life 15 March, 2020 15:38
Quote:
Dave Berko
Quote:
Walks11
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Very disappointing if true. I would be more impressed with the player if he nailed his colours to Saracens and accepted a year in the second tier with a pay cut if necessary.

The guys going out on loan are fringe England players, they need to be playing in the top flight otherwise they will potentially miss out. If you take the politics out of it, Mallins, Earl and Isiekwe on loan is a good decision for the individual. Older players with no international aspirations will no doubt either move on completely or take a year in the championship

Exactly. Might be a good decision for the receiving clubs, albeit for the short term as well.


I'm sure Chris Boyd, Pat Lam et al know what they're doing.

Oh, and to reassure a few, I wasn't in anyway trying to be provocative. We're all Rugby fans after all.

I have a lot of sympathy with the players involved - but unfortunately have no interest whatsoever in helping out a club ,which has corrupted and manipulated the competition, next season and certainly not the season after that .

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saintfanh 15 March, 2020 15:45
Quote:
Dave Berko
OK for you guys to loan out players though? E.g. Ampthill.
If it helps both clubs AND the player is it so wrong?

Understand you weren't meaning to be provocative but the comparison is a bit ignorant and insulting to all other clubs. Saints and other clubs use loans to give young and upcoming players more game time and experience whilst managing their potential and enabling them to be recalled in case of injuries.

(These loans may or may not be good for the players) but Saracens are using the loans to maintain a squad which was built and maintained through cheating.

Will completely welcome Isieqwe though - fantastic player.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2020 15:58 by Saintfanh.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Jamie_86 15 March, 2020 17:16
Clearly noone on this Forum will be satisfied until Saracens are put out of business and Allianz Park is burned to the ground but for me this is a great opportunity for us to utilise the services of a great talent for a year.

Imagine he and Courtney together in the engine room.

The only downside for me is I wonder whether this limits the progression of the likes of Moon and Coles.

Other than that, can we not move on from making everything about Saracens and focus on what's good for Saints?



Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700

Come and say hello!

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
ch saint 15 March, 2020 17:25
I wish we had taken an alternative route to source an additional second row player, but we have chosen to help Sarries. What the player must know is that he will be welcomed by the supporters.
Lets hope he enjoys playing in front of a good crowd and working with honest players and coaches, then decides to stay on with us. Anything is possible.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
tedge 15 March, 2020 17:25
Quote:
Jamie_86
Clearly noone on this Forum will be satisfied until Saracens are put out of business and Allianz Park is burned to the ground but for me this is a great opportunity for us to utilise the services of a great talent for a year.
Imagine he and Courtney together in the engine room.

The only downside for me is I wonder whether this limits the progression of the likes of Moon and Coles.

Other than that, can we not move on from making everything about Saracens and focus on what's good for Saints?

Jamie 100% agree but your last request has absolutely no chance on here

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 17:59
Happy to move on if Wray and his staff:-


1. Admit cheating
2. Show some remorse
3. Come back into the Prem with a squad which looks vaguely under the cap

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint For Life 15 March, 2020 18:09
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
Jamie_86
Clearly noone on this Forum will be satisfied until Saracens are put out of business and Allianz Park is burned to the ground but for me this is a great opportunity for us to utilise the services of a great talent for a year.
Imagine he and Courtney together in the engine room.

The only downside for me is I wonder whether this limits the progression of the likes of Moon and Coles.

Other than that, can we not move on from making everything about Saracens and focus on what's good for Saints?

Jamie 100% agree but your last request has absolutely no chance on here
I would be very surprised if there was any saints fan on this board who - like me - were not focussed a 100% on whatís good for saints . The only difference is unlike you and Jamie I do not give a damn about Saracens - although I would rather Allianz ( to be renamed ) Park was not burned to the ground as the major user of the facility is the local community .

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Chris1850 15 March, 2020 18:09
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
Happy to move on if Wray and his staff:-

1. Admit cheating
2. Show some remorse
3. Come back into the Prem with a squad which looks vaguely under the cap

4. Wray severs all financial ties with Saracens

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
St. Andy 15 March, 2020 18:18
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
Happy to move on if Wray and his staff:-

1. Admit cheating
2. Show some remorse
3. Come back into the Prem with a squad which looks vaguely under the cap

4. Wray severs all financial ties with Saracens

Absolutely correct in every respect. Not only are many still not showing remorse you only have to visit them to know that many think they are the victims here. Further it is clear they expect it to be business as usual in 2021. When the 4 items above are satisfied I am happy to move on until then, not a chance.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 15 March, 2020 18:25
And youíve all made your point and feelings on the matter very clear.

Repeating it over and over is getting boring for the rest of the board who want to discuss saints.

Bringing up the same points at every given opportunity serves no real purpose.

If you want to keep discussing it, use the sarries thread , if you want Iíll even create you your own forum if you want multiple threads.

The majority of the things people want before they can move on are never going to happen.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
samgibbo 15 March, 2020 18:29
Quote:
St. Andy
Appalling if true, if it were permanent fine. I will be considering my future attendance and will expect an explanation of the rationale. I would also like to know how exactly Saracens will be able to afford all these players when they return?

Iím sure youíll be sorely missed you sad little man

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 18:32
No need for that Samgibbo

be tolerant of other peopleís views

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 18:33
Quote:
Saint Ted
And youíve all made your point and feelings on the matter very clear.
Repeating it over and over is getting boring for the rest of the board who want to discuss saints.

Bringing up the same points at every given opportunity serves no real purpose.

If you want to keep discussing it, use the sarries thread , if you want Iíll even create you your own forum if you want multiple threads.

The majority of the things people want before they can move on are never going to happen.

Signing a Saracens player on loan is kinda linked to Saracens... donít you think ?

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 15 March, 2020 18:35
It is. But this has gone beyond the signing and resorted back to ĎI wonít get over it until x,y,z happensí

We got your point the first time you said it

Itís dull

Discuss the signing, the rest of it is just regurgitated stuff weíve heard a thousand times

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 18:40
That isnít what happened here.

I donít think ignoring Dave Berko would have been courteous. The conversation moved off direct topic after his welcome interjection.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 15 March, 2020 18:47
Iím not just looking at this thread, Iím looking at the wider picture.

A fair proportion of threads on this board end up with at the very least a mention of sarries, a lot of the time for no real reason.

A good response could have been Ďmy views on this are well known, look at the sarries threadí

Seriously, if you want a message board for discussion all about sarries, Iíll make you one, Iíll even make all the people with strong views on it mods so you can all moan/argue to your hearts content and moderate each other so the rest of the posters who have now stopped posting because they are bots of it can come back.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 18:57
Well my thoughts are well known on this, look at the Sarries thread

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint For Life 15 March, 2020 19:49
Ted - it is your plaything and you can do what you want . But this particular thread is about saints / and a 1 year loan deal with a current Cheaters player . A fact from what I can see ?. Hardly surprising the alternative views - given the Cheaters scandal is the biggest rugby news story ( and will continue to be whatever your view is ) since the advent of professional rugby . Your suggestion re referring to the 800 plus posters thread is in my view ridiculous / has no link to this thread / is not particularly relevant to this latest news .I have responded directly to the thread and given my view to a Saracens fan and a couple of saints fans with whom I disagree on the actual topic raised . Bizarre !!

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 15 March, 2020 20:08
If your going to make comment on what Iíve said, take note of everything I have said, not just the bits that suit what you want to say.

You will note I have said Iím not just referring to this thread.

Has this thread turned into people saying they wonít get over what saracens have done until x,y,z has happened? The answer to that is yes.

Iíve said it to you multiple times, if you donít like how we do things, donít come on here and post, itís very simple, you seem to have a bigger problem than anyone else with how we do things, if you need help in not logging on Iím sure I can do something to help you.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Deesaint 15 March, 2020 20:16
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
Jamie_86
Clearly noone on this Forum will be satisfied until Saracens are put out of business and Allianz Park is burned to the ground but for me this is a great opportunity for us to utilise the services of a great talent for a year.
Imagine he and Courtney together in the engine room.

The only downside for me is I wonder whether this limits the progression of the likes of Moon and Coles.

Other than that, can we not move on from making everything about Saracens and focus on what's good for Saints?
Jamie 100% agree but your last request has absolutely no chance on here

Never going to happen
There seems a competition to see who can demand the most retribution while repeating themselves just using different words

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint For Life 15 March, 2020 20:48
As I said it is your plaything and you can do what you want . No rude / unacceptable comments from me on this thread ? Your comments re multiple times , not just the bits that suit me ,a bigger problem than anyone else etc are in my view completely OTT but hey ho your plaything and you can say what you want. If you want to log me out then that is up to you . Bizarre .

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
charlieemeriau 15 March, 2020 21:02
I would love to have him in the squad next year, I think we are short of quality in the second row, I think Bean and Api are not quite at the level needed, Moon and Coles are coming along nicely but could do with more quality.

When you see the squad that Sales and Bristol are putting together, we will need some reinforcement.
I watch quite a bit of Top 14, Semi Radradra is something else add to this Kyle Sinckler, plus one year with Malins and Earls... I think they are going to be a notch above this year.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 15 March, 2020 21:24
Quote:
Saint For Life
As I said it is your plaything and you can do what you want . No rude / unacceptable comments from me on this thread ? Your comments re multiple times , not just the bits that suit me ,a bigger problem than anyone else etc are in my view completely OTT but hey ho your plaything and you can say what you want. If you want to log me out then that is up to you . Bizarre .

I didnít say you had been rude in this thread.

Have you called me out multiple times when you donít like a decision I have made? Yes

Have I said to you multiple times that if you donít like it you donít need to log on? Yes

Your clearly somebody with a strong opinion, nothing wrong with that.

However, how you respond to other posters (and for clarity Iím not just talking about this thread) more times than in my view is acceptable is rude. This may or may not be your intention, however intention is largely irrelevant. Itís how it is perceived that matters.

Most of the time you will have no idea who the other person is that you are responding to, so they should be treated with respect, opinions will always differ, counter argument and debate is fine, however shouting people down is not.

This shouting down and having to have the last word has crept back onto this board, more frequently on Saracens based threads.

We will be clamping down on it.

So you can either play by the rules or just not post anymore, that decision is on you.

And if you refer to this board as ĎMy play thingí again, I will just remove your account. That is rude.

The three of us took over this site so people could continue to post on a saints forum. It is certainly not my play thing, we get nothing out of it.

Youíre actually complaining about using a message board that is completely free for you to use at the expense of time and effort from others.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Wilson Pickett 15 March, 2020 21:31
Quote:
charlieemeriau
I would love to have him in the squad next year, I think we are short of quality in the second row, I think Bean and Api are not quite at the level needed, Moon and Coles are coming along nicely but could do with more quality.
When you see the squad that Sales and Bristol are putting together, we will need some reinforcement.
I watch quite a bit of Top 14, Semi Radradra is something else add to this Kyle Sinckler, plus one year with Malins and Earls... I think they are going to be a notch above this year.


Yeah agree they will be very dangerous next year. I do wonder whether they have over-funded their best 23.... and may have weaknesses in an injury crisis. I also think Api has really come on this year and is probably one of our most improved players. I love the guy.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Aberavon Wizard 15 March, 2020 21:49
Quote:
Walks11
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Very disappointing if true. I would be more impressed with the player if he nailed his colours to Saracens and accepted a year in the second tier with a pay cut if necessary.

The guys going out on loan are fringe England players, they need to be playing in the top flight otherwise they will potentially miss out. If you take the politics out of it, Mallins, Earl and Isiekwe on loan is a good decision for the individual. Older players with no international aspirations will no doubt either move on completely or take a year in the championship

I seem to remember that when we were playing Esher, Newbury, Sedgeley Park et al in the second flight, we had a couple of players called Hartley and Ashton in our ranks; I often wonder if they ever went on to have successful England careers !

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Scooby Saint COYS 16 March, 2020 00:02
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Quote:
Walks11
Quote:
Aberavon Wizard
Very disappointing if true. I would be more impressed with the player if he nailed his colours to Saracens and accepted a year in the second tier with a pay cut if necessary.

The guys going out on loan are fringe England players, they need to be playing in the top flight otherwise they will potentially miss out. If you take the politics out of it, Mallins, Earl and Isiekwe on loan is a good decision for the individual. Older players with no international aspirations will no doubt either move on completely or take a year in the championship

I seem to remember that when we were playing Esher, Newbury, Sedgeley Park et al in the second flight, we had a couple of players called Hartley and Ashton in our ranks; I often wonder if they ever went on to have successful England careers !

Malins is the player that fits really well with that analogy. I donít really get him moving, because Iíd have thought getting a year of first team rugby in the championship (ala Ashton) could be exactly what he needs. I donít immediately see how he even gets past the likes of Piatau, Radrada and Morahan to start regularly for Bristol. Isiekwe and Earl are at least already on the fringe of England, so them moving makes a bit more sense.

Setting aside whether we should/are helping Saracens, Iíd be delighted if Isiekwe is playing for us next year - should fit really well with our set up, and add much needed power to our game.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Dragonboy 16 March, 2020 00:05
Rather think he would bring what we thought Dom Barrow would

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
St. Andy 16 March, 2020 00:56
Quote:
samgibbo
Quote:
St. Andy
Appalling if true, if it were permanent fine. I will be considering my future attendance and will expect an explanation of the rationale. I would also like to know how exactly Saracens will be able to afford all these players when they return?

Iím sure youíll be sorely missed you sad little man

Oh a keyboard warrior, an ad hominem the refuge of the hard of thinking, well they may or may not miss my £1200 a year. I am not sad and I am certainly not little, so if you are not prepared to say it to my face you being a cheaters apologist best you actually make a coherent argument or shut the F@%k up.
And have just had a look and all your posts seem to all be on the Saracens site so go and isolate yourself in your stadium which wonít be difficult and try to stop cheating in the future sad sack.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/03/2020 01:10 by St. Andy.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Stillgrinning 16 March, 2020 05:05
Someone mentioned earlier (before the verbal treacle took hold) that we should focus on what is good for Saints not always on Saracens, and it may have been picked up elsewhere (and I'm delighted to admit that I haven't been anywhere near the 900 post thread), in which case I apologise, but everyone has focused on all these loan players gathering secrets of other clubs and taking it all back to Saracens but the opposite is also true surely ?

Saracens will have no training secrets for a few years - nutrition, phycology, equipment, technology.

None of these loan players will be able to keep that many secrets (even if they wanted too) - if they don't become part of the Saints (or whoever), even for a year, they will very quickly lose all trust and drop slowly out of sight surely ?

Quote:
St. Andy
Appalling if true, if it were permanent fine. I will be considering my future attendance and will expect an explanation of the rationale. I would also like to know how exactly Saracens will be able to afford all these players when they return?

Totally agreed if the guy wants to join us full time that would be fantastic but as a one year favour does us no favours at all - just delays the long term solution

Are there any other examples of us taking on a years loan ? I am only aware of short term injury cover loans

If there is no precedent for such arrangement then this is nothing other than the further corruption of rugby

Normally by now I have renewed by season tickets ...

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Ted 16 March, 2020 07:24
For us taking a year long loan, no, but Mark Wilson is currently on a year long loan from Newcastle to Sale.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Stevie Myler's right boot 16 March, 2020 08:08
Initially I didnít want us to take any of Sarries on loan however life has changed and things move on.
If true welcome Nick

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
tedge 16 March, 2020 08:44
We're all using a lot of energy discussing something that hasn't actually been confirmed yet. If it does turn out to be true and the the Saints haven't changed their mind after reading this thread, will somebody re-start the thread from the beginning please [:wor kid:]

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Longers 16 March, 2020 08:53
Just one point regarding the arguments over England qualification.

Regardless of who the players are, they have a choice. Clearly the ones mentioned on this thread think they can benefit from a sabbatical, whilst maintaining their potential earnings.

They, like the rest of us, have a choice. They seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too - with our assistance.

Would that life were so easy.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Awaywin 16 March, 2020 09:56
Sign him on a permanent contract yes.

Sign him on a season long loan next season no.

If we had signed him in place of Glynn for the remainder of this season and next season yes. (probably somewhat irrelevant now)

I can see him fitting in well with our squad and what we need but I don't see the value of a loan for next season. If we had signed him when we had an injury crisis I could have taken the hit on the following season. He is a good premiership player who can cover multiple positions and has no international commitments, those are the positives. He will get better but we wouldn't see the benefit of this. He is not a world beater who I would take on loan for a season, thinking that he would get us those semi and final wins.

I also don't subscribe to the argument that there is nobody in world rugby that we could not sign to do a similar job on a permanent basis next season. If we were to take him on load for a season, and that proved to be the last one of Boyd's tenure I would be very disappointed.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Saint Stokey 16 March, 2020 10:38
I'm trying to not look at this a benefiting Sarries. If he doesn't stay long term, Isiekwe will have to return to Sarries next season and it will be another player coming back on to their books. The Cap will still be in place and they'd have the same issue as everyone else.

There are positives:
1. We are likely to be signing a versatile & quality player for lower than market value
2. We have Api and Wood that are coming towards the end of their careers, Isiekwe could give us a chance to cover them.
3. Gibson is a perennial question about renewing. Isiekwe means we have extra time to plan.
4. We possibly have more preferential signings, but who are still in contract. Isiekwe could cover in that year until we can sign who we really want.
5. We won't be in a position where Isiekwe will be playing against Sarries so there will not be any conflict of interest.
6. Isiekwe may find that the team spirit at Sarries is no better than with us, and he may chose to not renew with Sarries and stay with us.
7. Sarries have been a very successful team and regardless of their overspend, appear to have very good training and set ups. Perhaps we could learn from Isiekwe.

I would hope that Boyd and the coaching team are only looking a signings that will benefit the squad. With Sarries not being in the Prem next year, the impact that it will have on them is none of our concern. Even if its for 1 year, anything that will benefit Saints is a good move in my book.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Dragonboy 16 March, 2020 11:39
Re Jamie Gibson, I think in true Saints nail biting tradition, he signed a new contract last season probably a day or so before final match. I doubt that it would have just been for a year.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
LeicesterSaint 16 March, 2020 12:03
I think the concerns about inside info may be a little overdone to be honest, I'm sure lineout calls, set moves etc change over the course of the season, let alone between seasons. Don't forget a lot of these guys spend a fair chunk of time together at England camps etc too and I'm sure that EJ will be encouraging them to share best practices etc for the good of the England team.

I'll trust Chris Boyd on this one (if true - as pointed out above it isn't even confirmed yet!) he's a very pragmatic guy who I'm sure won't want to help Sarries especially but equally won't cut off his nose to spite his face if there is a good opportunity to strengthen the squad. It allows you to bring in a quality player (for all the back and forth above nobody seems to disagree on that front), possibly at less than usual value - he then either fits well and stays or does a job for a season while the likes of Coles and Moon continue their development and then goes back, potentially tying in with an older player's retirement to fund a bigger signing.

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Happywifehappylife 16 March, 2020 17:53
Hi guys

We've decided to merge this thread with the Sarries Sticky one

Re: Nick Isiekwe on loan according to TRP
Stockers 17 March, 2020 15:14
900......belatedly!

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
St. Andy 17 March, 2020 17:58
While I now accept it may have been tiresome that some, probably me, repeat what is required of Saracens for us to move on, I wont do it again. And they keep on not doing it or anything remotely like it but keep manoeuvring to potentially reassemble in 2022, like loaning out players. And as the thread was about a loan of a player to Saints it was perhaps a natural progression of the conversation.
The danger now is no one is going post anything about anything.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
BrianB 17 March, 2020 18:19
And the Itoje thread?

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 17 March, 2020 20:19
Quote:
St. Andy
While I now accept it may have been tiresome that some, probably me, repeat what is required of Saracens for us to move on, I wont do it again. And they keep on not doing it or anything remotely like it but keep manoeuvring to potentially reassemble in 2022, like loaning out players. And as the thread was about a loan of a player to Saints it was perhaps a natural progression of the conversation.
The danger now is no one is going post anything about anything.

Iíll explain the best I can, been a long day....

The thread was about a loan player going to saints, so at first was highly relevant, however as it started going back down the usual route and away from the loan it got merged with this one, the Itoje thread was the same.

You say the danger now is no one is going to post about anything is actually quite key, the problem we have is that so many threads that have nothing to do with Sarries, end up about Sarries.

This thread is about Sarries, people can discuss them to their hearts content in here while those who just want to get on with other saints and rugby talk can have this saints message board back to being about saints.

Unfortunately, until this becomes clear, when a thread turns Sarries, it will get moved to the Sarries thread.

If people are desperate enough to talk about them that much, Iíll setup a new sub forum just for Sarries chat.

We took over the site to keep a place alive for people to discuss saints and rugby, however it has now turned into a place predominantly to moan about Sarries.

To put things into perspective, our captain of many years retired early this year, the thread got just over 40 posts. At that time was when Sarries were punished, 22 threads were started that day on the subject with over 500 posts between them, the rest of the sports networks rugby board had, I think 18 threads between them and way less posts.

We want the board back to saints and rugby, yes Sarries will come up, but when a thread descends into the same repeated stuff, it will end up back here.

Too many people have messaged us now saying they arenít posting anymore as they are bored of it and the way various people have been acting, so we are trying to stamp it out.

Hope thatís reasonably clear and not incoherent nonsense

Edit because it took about an hour for a new example to come up....

Look at the third post in the Coments From Mark Darbon thread.

The poster has clearly read this one by the tone of his comment, and he still brings Sarries into it.

Iím not removing it as it highlights my point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/03/2020 21:18 by Saint Ted.

Quote:
Saint Ted
Look at the third post in the Coments From Mark Darbon thread.

The poster has clearly read this one by the tone of his comment, and he still brings Sarries into it.

Iím not removing it as it highlights my point.

Ted my comments were entirely in context with the point I was making about how the club very often speak out on financial challenges / concerns but very rarely these days show any form or leadership or commentary in terms of wider rugby or community issues

I tried to do it In a way which respected your request whilst highlighting the point

Sorry your not happy about that but the clubís priority is obvious money money money

I simply not post anything further itís not worth the egg shells

Thank you and other mods

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
St. Andy 17 March, 2020 23:47
Quote:
Saint Ted
Quote:
St. Andy
While I now accept it may have been tiresome that some, probably me, repeat what is required of Saracens for us to move on, I wont do it again. And they keep on not doing it or anything remotely like it but keep manoeuvring to potentially reassemble in 2022, like loaning out players. And as the thread was about a loan of a player to Saints it was perhaps a natural progression of the conversation.
The danger now is no one is going post anything about anything.

Iíll explain the best I can, been a long day....

The thread was about a loan player going to saints, so at first was highly relevant, however as it started going back down the usual route and away from the loan it got merged with this one, the Itoje thread was the same.

You say the danger now is no one is going to post about anything is actually quite key, the problem we have is that so many threads that have nothing to do with Sarries, end up about Sarries.

This thread is about Sarries, people can discuss them to their hearts content in here while those who just want to get on with other saints and rugby talk can have this saints message board back to being about saints.

Unfortunately, until this becomes clear, when a thread turns Sarries, it will get moved to the Sarries thread.

If people are desperate enough to talk about them that much, Iíll setup a new sub forum just for Sarries chat.

We took over the site to keep a place alive for people to discuss saints and rugby, however it has now turned into a place predominantly to moan about Sarries.

To put things into perspective, our captain of many years retired early this year, the thread got just over 40 posts. At that time was when Sarries were punished, 22 threads were started that day on the subject with over 500 posts between them, the rest of the sports networks rugby board had, I think 18 threads between them and way less posts.

We want the board back to saints and rugby, yes Sarries will come up, but when a thread descends into the same repeated stuff, it will end up back here.

Too many people have messaged us now saying they arenít posting anymore as they are bored of it and the way various people have been acting, so we are trying to stamp it out.

Hope thatís reasonably clear and not incoherent nonsense

Edit because it took about an hour for a new example to come up....

Look at the third post in the Coments From Mark Darbon thread.

The poster has clearly read this one by the tone of his comment, and he still brings Sarries into it.

Iím not removing it as it highlights my point.

There really was no need to type all that because it is exactly what you have posted a number of times before and is getting as repetitive as the subject others are being accused of being repetitive about. What is more it completely misses my point. That being that now that everything is suspended there is going to be very little to talk about. It was deliberately not about not being able to mention Saracens again.

The fact that you mention on the day Saracens were punished there were 22 threads, which yes is too many an d 500 posts surely suggests that it is a matter of interest. The biggest story since professional rugby began. As for comparing it to other sites this site is much more active than many of the others. And comparing it with the retirement is comparing apples and oranges. The retirement post will be 40 posts saying what a great player, servant, captain he was and wishing him well for the future. All true by the way but hardly contentious. The Saracens story by comparison throws up loads of areas for debate,

I say this with great respect for what you do but I think perhaps you should be a little less interventionist. Although I did notice the post which was aimed at me which is clearly abusive and offered nothing to the argument has passed without comment, with WP doing the job and me later. I have no idea what emails you have received but I cannot be responsible if people are bored and think the Saracens affair is over, it isnít and if those people are content with Saints to be made mugs of going forward fine, Iím not. I have paid a 5 figure sum in season ticket money watching a competition which was bent and I was convinced it was bent for ages, maybe the bored people didnít care but I do. I wonder what they would rather post about. This site used to be a clique with loads of banal rubbish and in jokes which if you werenít a party to you were left out. Letís not go back to that.

It is obvious that we donít agree about the importance of the Saracens story and the fact it is far from over and it is about Saints and how they and everybody have been cheated for many years, continue to be cheated and seems may be cheated in the future.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2020 00:20 by St. Andy.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Wilson Pickett 18 March, 2020 05:27
I was personally abused by Stoofer. No intervention. Andy abused by a Saracens fan. No intervention. God forbid someone mentions Saracens in a rugby context on a related thread.... massive intervention, essays in reply and over reaction.

I make a joke on Itoje thread, the same again by HappyWifeHappyLife who posts patronising nonsense ďthink about the impact of what youíre sayingĒ. What, about a joke that the thread has a cloaking device? He then deleted the comments to save his own face and moved the thread to here. He will delete this one too.

Moderation isnít an easy job, and before you say it, you know I put my hand up to do it at the time.

But it also means protecting content providers from abuse and showing neutrality to allow debate to flow. Currently abuse is free rein but we are talked down to in a very condescending manner dare we mention Saracens.

You guys have done a good job but completely lost the plot recently. Iíve really enjoyed the last few years on here but if people want a sterile and slow forum then thatís not for me.

Enjoy folks, COYS.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 18 March, 2020 07:40
You reap what you sow.

Why does it appear we have lost it recently....

Because people like yourself have killed the bored off with the tone of your messages and repeating the same message over and over again.

You may not intend to shout other users down but that is the perception and as I explained a couple of days ago, itís the perception that matters most.

There is a reason why you were banned by the previous admin, you just donít seem to get that how you post comes across as brash and arrogant, like the loud bloke in the pub who must be heard.

What you think is slow and sterile maybe what others enjoy, not everyone want to be in a constant battle just to be shot down.

As I said to your mate, donít like it donít post, youíll say you wonít post and then an hour later be back on again.

Unfortunately this is how it is now and you are one of the reasons itís now like this



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2020 09:39 by Saint Ted.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Wilson Pickett 18 March, 2020 08:34
Thatís cool, no big deal and no hard feelings..... and hereís to Saints coming 2nd when we eventually get going !

Enjoy Saintsmenandwomen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2020 08:45 by Wilson Pickett.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
tedge 18 March, 2020 11:54
Quote:
Saint Ted
You reap what you sow.
Why does it appear we have lost it recently....

Because people like yourself have killed the bored off with the tone of your messages and repeating the same message over and over again.

You may not intend to shout other users down but that is the perception and as I explained a couple of days ago, itís the perception that matters most.

There is a reason why you were banned by the previous admin, you just donít seem to get that how you post comes across as brash and arrogant, like the loud bloke in the pub who must be heard.

What you think is slow and sterile maybe what others enjoy, not everyone want to be in a constant battle just to be shot down.

As I said to your mate, donít like it donít post, youíll say you wonít post and then an hour later be back on again.

Unfortunately this is how it is now and you are one of the reasons itís now like this

+1 and I guarantee he will have the last word !

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
St. Andy 18 March, 2020 12:54
Quote:
tedge
Quote:
Saint Ted
You reap what you sow.
Why does it appear we have lost it recently....

Because people like yourself have killed the bored off with the tone of your messages and repeating the same message over and over again.

You may not intend to shout other users down but that is the perception and as I explained a couple of days ago, itís the perception that matters most.

There is a reason why you were banned by the previous admin, you just donít seem to get that how you post comes across as brash and arrogant, like the loud bloke in the pub who must be heard.

What you think is slow and sterile maybe what others enjoy, not everyone want to be in a constant battle just to be shot down.

As I said to your mate, donít like it donít post, youíll say you wonít post and then an hour later be back on again.

Unfortunately this is how it is now and you are one of the reasons itís now like this

+1 and I guarantee he will have the last word !

Any need for the last comment? I notice there is still no comment with regard to the ad hominem attack, which was actually abusive.

You will see on the covid 19 thread that I called WP out on his abrasive manner but I donít feel the need to complain, horses for courses.

I donít know if parts of the board or bored are slow or sterile or not, but you say thatís what some people like, so does that mean thatís what they get to the exclusion of everybody else? If a heading is of no interest to me I donít open or read it.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 18 March, 2020 13:03
Sorry I don't understand what you mean by ad hominem attack?

Nothing has been reported to me and may have missed something, if somebody says or sees something abusive, if something needs to be done about it, it needs to be reported to be guaranteed to be removed or dealt with.

Your point on if a heading is no interest to you, you don't open it, that is a good way of looking at things, some people will just read every thread and even if it's as clear as day what the thread is about, they come into it and try and de-rail it, I probably used the wrong terms in describing what I mean, forgive that, I've spent the best part of 24 hours travelling and had three hours sleep, I'm not going to be as articulate as I could be.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 18 March, 2020 13:33
Quote:
St. Andy

There really was no need to type all that because it is exactly what you have posted a number of times before and is getting as repetitive as the subject others are being accused of being repetitive about. What is more it completely misses my point. That being that now that everything is suspended there is going to be very little to talk about. It was deliberately not about not being able to mention Saracens again.

The fact that you mention on the day Saracens were punished there were 22 threads, which yes is too many an d 500 posts surely suggests that it is a matter of interest. The biggest story since professional rugby began. As for comparing it to other sites this site is much more active than many of the others. And comparing it with the retirement is comparing apples and oranges. The retirement post will be 40 posts saying what a great player, servant, captain he was and wishing him well for the future. All true by the way but hardly contentious. The Saracens story by comparison throws up loads of areas for debate,

I say this with great respect for what you do but I think perhaps you should be a little less interventionist. Although I did notice the post which was aimed at me which is clearly abusive and offered nothing to the argument has passed without comment, with WP doing the job and me later. I have no idea what emails you have received but I cannot be responsible if people are bored and think the Saracens affair is over, it isnít and if those people are content with Saints to be made mugs of going forward fine, Iím not. I have paid a 5 figure sum in season ticket money watching a competition which was bent and I was convinced it was bent for ages, maybe the bored people didnít care but I do. I wonder what they would rather post about. This site used to be a clique with loads of banal rubbish and in jokes which if you werenít a party to you were left out. Letís not go back to that.

It is obvious that we donít agree about the importance of the Saracens story and the fact it is far from over and it is about Saints and how they and everybody have been cheated for many years, continue to be cheated and seems may be cheated in the future.

Sorry missed this post...

The fact I am having to repeat it shows that the message isn't getting across.

At no point have we said don't discuss Sarries, it's just being contained to one thread when it comes to the salary cap, like the match day threads, it's a volatile area and easier to moderate when all in one place.

Subjects involving Sarries will come up, they may have nothing to do with the salary cap, they can and will be started on the main board as a new discussion.

Obviously, yes it's the biggest thing to happen to rugby, but it doesn't need to be all consuming, which is how it was getting and the reason this thread started.

So yes, feel free to continue the discussion, we are just requesting that it is kept in one place, after all, it's a saints message board. Nothing new has come up on the matter for weeks, so it's the same old stuff being discussed time and again, with the same responses.

We probably do actually agree on the importance of the Saracens issue, just looking at it in different ways, I'm not going to let it get to me as over that time I've had some bloody good times whilst always knowing that the playing field hasn't been level and not just from Sarries.

Is that right, probably not, a blind eye has been turned by all the clubs up until 2015(?) and probably by a lot of supporters as it was so wide spread, so I can only really focus any displeasure at Saracens for the last three years, when Saints had issues of their own anyway so I'm not going to let it take away any of the pleasure I've had in it.

Hopefully, it won't continue, I could write down the reasons I don't think it will continue but I shall save that for another time.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
St. Andy 18 March, 2020 13:50
Iím not going to bang on because, I have read and understood. The ad hominem, sorry if I am telling you what you already know is an attack directly on the individual as opposed to disagreeing with their opinion. It is above by someone called samgibbo, who is a Saracens fan anyway. Donít worry about it I replied myself.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 18 March, 2020 14:05
I did not know that so thanks for the explanation, as I say, some posts will get missed by us, granted not a lot happening at the minute so it's a lot easier! When you have a thread that is evolving quickly things get missed and also if, for example I'm replying to a message, anything that happens in between when I start it and when it gets posted, will more than likely be missed.

Please notify us of anything like that, as anyone who has done this in the past will testify, I will remove/edit it straight away.

I will ban the user mentioned above from posting on this site now it has been pointed out.

If something needs removing quickly, PM me, I get a notification and providing I'm not otherwise engaged it will be dealt with as quickly as possible.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Happywifehappylife 18 March, 2020 19:43
Quote:
Wilson Pickett
I make a joke on Itoje thread, the same again by HappyWifeHappyLife who posts patronising nonsense ďthink about the impact of what youíre sayingĒ. What, about a joke that the thread has a cloaking device? He then deleted the comments to save his own face and moved the thread to here. He will delete this one too.

The first thing I've learnt in life as an older boy is to never react immediately to abusive comments, hence my not responding to the above comments from this poster immediately. The people that really know me will know that "patronising" is the last word they'd use to describe me.

The second thing I will never tolerate in my life is bullying or attempted psychological bullying, in what ever format it might take. I have seen far too much of it in my workplace & will stamp on it at every opportunity. I left the role I did because of it

I love this forum as I know all of you do & it's a great place for open discussion & tolerance.

We respect each others views...we might not agree...we challenge each other views...we might fall out...but we respect each other...we do not bully...we tolerate...we also take the mickey...& we have fun...we do not demand attention, try to get the last word, & when it's not acknowledged throw our toys out of the pram, say goodbye & then, because we don't get the attention we crave come back 31 minutes later

I have had 61 years on this planet - do not insult me, I might not agree with you, but we can chat politely.

This is a forum about our club...Saints. A club we all love & all want the best for. A club that we all want to rock up at FGs to see us winning every game, every league, & every trophy in the game. You all have a choice as to whether you post in this Forum or not.

Someone once warned me about 'Vampires'. Beware of Vampires. They look at you & think we'd love to be like you, but we can't so we'll suck the life out of you to be like us.

Don't let them...ever! And that is why we as Mods have tonight banned certain posters

We are Saints...we bleed Green Black & Gold

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Jamie_86 19 March, 2020 07:21
Well done mods.

I'm a confident and positive person but the constant berating and arrogance by a small number of posters on this board made me not want to contribute.

It amazes me how some people cannot get the balance right between reasonable debate and shouting someone down who doesn't agree with them.

Most can and I look forward to those people coming to the fore now.

Totally agree with your approach on this



Church's Stand - Block 20 - Row Q - Seat 700

Come and say hello!

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Dragonboy 19 March, 2020 10:41
Well done mods.

Now for your next task could you find something rugby related we can enjoy, laugh and chat about?

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Saint Ted 19 March, 2020 10:48
Quote:
Dragonboy
Well done mods.
Now for your next task could you find something rugby related we can enjoy, laugh and chat about?

All over it, something will be up tomorrow, it might work it might not, if it doesn't I'll try something else!

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Stockers 20 March, 2020 11:15
Well done mods. There are a small number of posters whose self importance, arrogance and always wanting the last word are quite toxic, on here and, previously, on Come on you Saints, on the Offy Forum and associated Facebook sites and who ruin the experience for the majority.

More power to your elbow (bump)!

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Stockers 20 March, 2020 11:17
Oh, and that was 950 by the way!

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
St. Andy 21 March, 2020 14:37
I am posting this here because it is a comment about Saracens, but it relates to the threat of a strike thread below.

It is interesting the picture the Daily Mail chooses to use at the top of itís article. But more importantly, it is interesting that Saracens are mentioned as one of the clubs who have already cut wages by 25%, when I thought they were the club which boasts that they look after their players so much better than anybody else.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
Happywifehappylife 22 March, 2020 00:08
Quote:
Stockers
Well done mods. There are a small number of posters whose self importance, arrogance and always wanting the last word are quite toxic, on here and, previously, on Come on you Saints, on the Offy Forum and associated Facebook sites and who ruin the experience for the majority.
More power to your elbow (bump)!

Thanks Stockers - we appreciate that.

I said to Ted & Alex a couple of nights ago how much "nicer" the site appeared to be now & how many more different people were posting. Many that haven't posted for a while have now started again & that's great to see.

Ever the optimist Alex said he betted the people we'd banned had already registered under new names!!!

That may be the case & whilst there's little we can do to stop them, what we'd say is we'll monitor things as best as we can from our side, but never hesitate to pm us if you have a concern over any post as we'd rather not go back to that place again

Ed Griffiths to the rescue
Saint Stokey 25 March, 2020 10:38
Ed Griffiths to the rescue

I don't doubt his business acumen, but I would question whether any of his previous rugby ventures could be classed as sustainable?

Perhaps his buddy Nige is looking for somewhere else to fritter his pennies*

Re: Ed Griffiths to the rescue
Stockers 25 March, 2020 12:31
Well, with the RFU having pooped on the Championship clubs from a great height, you can't blame them for trying to find a better way forward.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
195Rich 01 April, 2020 09:30
This is not intended to be cruel or to exhibit schardenfreude at all, it's justa s straightforward question for anyone who knows the answer. Saracens have cut the salaries of staff by 25% because of the virus. Will that assist them next season in meeting the financial requirements to return to The Premiership in 2021- 2022?

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
JL904 03 April, 2020 01:24
No offence taken by this Sarrie Rich - and it's a valid, reasonable question.

In answer, it's hard to see how it won't help the club to meet the requirements. Remember also that several players are out of contract at the end of this season, and naturally social distancing/isolation probably means that negotiations are on hold. Nevertheless, I can see the possibility of one or two retirements which would reduce the wage bill further.

That said though, with things as they are - who knows if any professional sport (except for elite football) will even return in anything like the format we are used to.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
woodface 03 April, 2020 12:38
Quote:
JL904

That said though, with things as they are - who knows if any professional sport (except for elite football) will even return in anything like the format we are used to.

Iím not convinced elite football will retain any respect unless the massively overpaid so called stars do the right thing and volunteer a pay cut. Many clubs are furloughing their back room staff leaving taxpayers to top up their wages via government emergency handouts. Gordon Taylor and top players digging their heels in and refusing to negotiate a pay cut will alienate many right thinking supporters (there may be a few!). A suggestion in the press today which I would support would be for the government to hit the elite clubs with a windfall tax.

Apologies if this post ventures away from rugby topic and borders on the political but at least rugby can hold its head up in this respect - in my view of course.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
shendy 03 April, 2020 14:28
Quote:
woodface
Quote:
JL904

That said though, with things as they are - who knows if any professional sport (except for elite football) will even return in anything like the format we are used to.

Iím not convinced elite football will retain any respect unless the massively overpaid so called stars do the right thing and volunteer a pay cut. Many clubs are furloughing their back room staff leaving taxpayers to top up their wages via government emergency handouts. Gordon Taylor and top players digging their heels in and refusing to negotiate a pay cut will alienate many right thinking supporters (there may be a few!). A suggestion in the press today which I would support would be for the government to hit the elite clubs with a windfall tax.

Apologies if this post ventures away from rugby topic and borders on the political but at least rugby can hold its head up in this respect - in my view of course.

I did notice that Gregor Townsend is taking at 25% salary deferral, not a cut.

Re: Sarries and the Salary Cap Thread
shendy 16 April, 2020 07:54
OK, any interesting theories on how this will work?
[www.bbc.co.uk]

Sarries want anyone earning more than £75,000 a year to defer anything above that amount until the start of 2020-21.
They intend to repay any wages that are deferred over an 18-month period from the beginning of next season.

Next season is a bit of a moot point as they'll be in the Championship (we'll take it as read that no-one really knows whether they have to be under the cap for that season).
An 18 month period will take them into the 2021-22 season, and presumably that season's salary cap?

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