Latest news:

The Unofficial Northampton Saints Supporters' Message Board




Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Discussion started by HerbieSaint , 03 June, 2020 18:35
Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
HerbieSaint 03 June, 2020 18:35
Very interesting podcast with Sam Burgess reflecting on his time in Union with Hask and Alex Payne:

Link

Burgess comes across well and is very honest - Mike Ford does not come off well at all in this, and to be honest I'm very glad that the rumours about us picking him up to replace Mallinder were bogus. Sounds like Ford was playing games with Burgess and Lancaster because he wanted the England job. It's such a shame because I think Sam could really have gone on to become a great Union player. I think there's a lot that Union could learn about the Burgess situation but I fear it's more political than ever now, especially in England.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
shendy 04 June, 2020 08:13
Just read the BBC report on it - pretty direct!

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Former Hollywood Saint 04 June, 2020 10:51
I remember listening to the Rugby Pod months ago when Ford got the job at Tigers. Goodey was saying then the Ford would have one thing on his mind and that was to worm his way in to the top job there and undermine Geordan Murphy. Seems like that Mike Ford does not have many fans out there.




FHS

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
samlee99 04 June, 2020 11:25
Quote:
Former Hollywood Saint
I remember listening to the Rugby Pod months ago when Ford got the job at Tigers. Goodey was saying then the Ford would have one thing on his mind and that was to worm his way in to the top job there and undermine Geordan Murphy. Seems like that Mike Ford does not have many fans out there.



FHS

To be honest I don't take much notice of anything Andy Goode says.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Scrummy 04 June, 2020 12:46
The main issue around the Sam Burgess affair is that he was not an international standard 12 at the time he was shoe-horned into that position. If Stuart Lancaster thought that he was then I would question his judgment. If he had his arm twisted by others to include Burgess at 12 then Lancaster needed to show more resolve.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Walks11 05 June, 2020 15:43
I think it left a bitter taste all round and would love to know what actually happened.

Burgess was an experiment that failed miserably mostly down to timing and a lack of co-ordinated thought. If The RFU genuinely wanted or saw Sam as the next bing thing to come out of RL it should have been done immediately after the previous WC and therefore giving him enough time to get acquainted with the laws and intricacies of Union ahead of the 2015 WC. Lancaster and Ford should have sat down and agreed what position Sam would suit and review regularly, even if this meant changing tack. If Lancaster saw him as a 12 it was a complete nonsense that he firstly play for Bath if they had 2 England centres already in situ and then Ford play him at 6.

So in my opinion an Iíll thought out mess typical of the RFU and not surprised that Ford snr was a devious so and so as alleged. While Iím not a fan of Burgess I do feel for him because it became about him which was unfair. Was Lancaster put under any pressure to pick him, I suspect he was to detriment of Luther for one who was actually playing some decent rugby at the time. Not a good period for England rugby.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
John Tee 06 June, 2020 20:44
Sounds like a very political episode and that is not good for the playing side.
And if players has any input as to who made the squad is even worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if cliques were prevalent then and survive today

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Whiston Saint 06 June, 2020 22:22
Quote:
Walks11
So in my opinion an Iíll thought out mess typical of the RFU and not surprised that Ford snr was a devious so and so as alleged. While Iím not a fan of Burgess I do feel for him because it became about him which was unfair. Was Lancaster put under any pressure to pick him, I suspect he was to detriment of Luther for one who was actually playing some decent rugby at the time. Not a good period for England rugby.

Luther was never good enough to make the squad. Burgess was an outstanding Rugby player And the whole issue was mismanaged. England did not fail because of Burgess, they actually lost the Wales game when they took him off. Lancaster was too early in his top level coaching career and he didnít have the quality in the squad that EJ has had more recently.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Walks11 07 June, 2020 10:19
Quote:
Whiston Saint
Quote:
Walks11
So in my opinion an Iíll thought out mess typical of the RFU and not surprised that Ford snr was a devious so and so as alleged. While Iím not a fan of Burgess I do feel for him because it became about him which was unfair. Was Lancaster put under any pressure to pick him, I suspect he was to detriment of Luther for one who was actually playing some decent rugby at the time. Not a good period for England rugby.

Luther was never good enough to make the squad. Burgess was an outstanding Rugby player And the whole issue was mismanaged. England did not fail because of Burgess, they actually lost the Wales game when they took him off. Lancaster was too early in his top level coaching career and he didnít have the quality in the squad that EJ has had more recently.

Iíd disagree on Luther, was he good enough maybe not but he was one of the better ones around at the time. Burgess was outstanding rugby player but wasnít ready to play international rugby union, in part due to the confusion about which position he was suited to. As I said previously, either he should have come across earlier and/or fast tracked in one position. Flip flopping between 12 & 6 in such a short time frame was never going to work. Given when he came across he was never going to be an England 6 in such a short time frame. Itís a complex position to play not beyond him given a reasonable amount of time. He wasnít ready and it was a Hail Mary selection that didnít come off.. He wasnít outstanding against Wales but he had a good game and shouldnít have come off, not sure that decision was the reason we lost. We were pretty poor all round that tournament.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Saint Maul 07 June, 2020 22:39
Burgess was given exceptionally favourable treatment by Bath and England. If the Bath DoR or England Manager thought he'd have walked away from his contract and the commitment he made after the World Cup they would never have gone for him.

Burgess chose to run away as soon as the World Cup was over rather than attempting to re-pay the faith shown in him. It cost Bath and England a lot in different ways.

Burgess' wife left him after his sexting scandal which took place whilst she was pregnant.

He now lays into both Fords. A number of people have cast doubt on his description of George Ford.

None of these actions show Burgess in a great light.

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
Scooby Saint COYS 08 June, 2020 02:00
Iím not a great fan of Mike Ford, but Iím not sure I even understand what Burgess is alleging here.

Mike Ford wasnít in the England set up in 2015, so I donít see how he was having much influence on team selection. And the idea that George Ford came on against Wales with the intention of losing the game in order for Lancaster to get the sack, so that his dad could be in with a shout of a coaching job... is pretty ludicrous.

As far as I can remember, the main thing Mike Ford was saying in the build up to the World Cup was that he thought Burgess was a 6 rather than a 12, which doesnít seem a particularly Ďsnakeishí opinion for his club coach to have expressed, given thatís where theyíd been playing him!

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
BrianB 08 June, 2020 16:10

Re: Sam Burgess on House of Rugby
John Tee 08 June, 2020 18:17
Quote:
Saint Maul
Burgess was given exceptionally favourable treatment by Bath and England. If the Bath DoR or England Manager thought he'd have walked away from his contract and the commitment he made after the World Cup they would never have gone for him.
Burgess chose to run away as soon as the World Cup was over rather than attempting to re-pay the faith shown in him. It cost Bath and England a lot in different ways.

Burgess' wife left him after his sexting scandal which took place whilst she was pregnant.

He now lays into both Fords. A number of people have cast doubt on his description of George Ford.

None of these actions show Burgess in a great light.

Didnt Burgess say he would play on upto a point, but didnt need to because a deal was done. He had already told Ford he couldn't play for him on account of his duplicity but did set a period of when he wanted out.

The problem may well have been that Burgess wasnt ready/good enough at the RWC...but Burgess didnt pick himself.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?