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Glasgow Warriors
15. J McKay;
14. K Steyn,
13. S Tuipulotu,
12. S Johnson,
11. C Forbes;
10. R Thompson,
9. A Price©;
1. J Bhatti,
2. G Turner,
3. Z Fagerson,
4. S Cummings,
5. R Gray,
6. M Fagerson,
7. R Darge,
8. J Dempsey.

Replacements:
16. J Matthews,
17. O Kebble,
18. E Pieretto,
19. K McDonald,
20. R Harley,
21. T Gordon,
22. G Horne,
23. D Weir



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:12:17:12:16:45 by Lowerwatha.

Good looking team. Interesting to see Schickerling!

Match Officials


Referee: Pierre Brousset (France)
Assistant Referees: Luc Ramos (France) and Flavien Hourquet (France)
TMO: Denis Grenouillet (France

Weather as at 1200 Friday

Thick cloud and a light winds from the south west

Temperature feels like 4 degrees
Low chance of rain

Television Coverage from 5.15 pm

Channel 409 BT Sport 2 SD
Channel 431 BT Sport 2 HD

Ok, I'll go first this week.

Glasgow 18 - 28 Exeter

Solid looking Glasgow team but doable. I'll go with Glasgow 15 Chiefs 25

Will be hard fought but fancy our chances. Glasgow 15 - 27 Exeter

Think we might struggle in the scrum early doors but hopefully Hill and Gray will give us the edge in the line out and the loose!

Glasgow 12 chiefs 32 poor scots will be left silent .

Glasgow 15 - 21Chiefs

Glasgow 12 18 Chiefs

Glasgow 18 Chiefs 36

We've never won up there, but I'd like to think that last week's result has given us some confidence. Close, I think, so Warriors 18 Chiefs 24. But I could (& most likely will be) wrong ......................... again.

Glasgow 12 : Chiefs 35

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.

Glas 21 - Chiefs 28

Not sure - worried re late Covid results. Glasgow 21 Chiefs 31. Important to get the BP if we can as format may change and I doubt our Montpellier match will happen either with the French Govt ban or an outbreak in our squad.

Warriors 18-24 Exeter but I could be wrong

We have to get 5 points and a plus 24 points difference to top the pool as things stand. But, of course, that is predicated on the Racing v Leinster "pools panel" win standing when all the other games involving French sides have now been postponed not "determined".

EPRC seem set on ruining the competition unless this round is either reset and played or equal rules are applied to all.

It's a reasonable assumption that the Racing vs Leinster judgement will stand.

Furthermore I'm guessing that if they can't reschedule the currently postponed matches, they'll go down as 0-0 draws and we go from there.

Always exciting to predict outcomes etc but with my cup half full I think it will all become futile as the competition dissolves into farce and in the worst instance may not even be completed.

Not sure how this cup is fare now with the French teams and others getting 5 points for nothing, should be 4 or postponed matches. Meanwhile we work and risk injury on plastic pitches to earn ours.
The team looks settled, bit worried we are not seeing other wingers, hope they play or do not look to move on. Tough game I’m going with warriors 13 chiefs 22 no bp but hope I’m wrong. At least no snow this time.

A narrow win is in favour in the PC household.
Mrs PC 17 - 15
PC 18 - 15
It would be great to have a bonus point win but I think just a win is the best we can hope for.

Given that last I checked we've never managed to get out of Glasgow with a win(OK, so last time we were due up there the match was called off), a WBP might be a bit greedy on this occasion, yeah.

Quote:

ExTeddChief
Given that last I checked we've never managed to get out of Glasgow with a win(OK, so last time we were due up there the match was called off), a WBP might be a bit greedy on this occasion, yeah.

But we did win 42 - 0 at home last year.

Glasgow 17 Chefs 30

Thick fog descending on Glasgow. 3 footy matches in the area abandoned.

Crazy! Can barely see across the field, never mind the length!

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.

Poor defence from us thus far.

Not looking good, giving away penalties

A very poor, rather depressing performance. No penetration again.

Attack’s no better. Getting a thorough seeing to.

Shocker of a performance.

After a number of years when things have happened I believe this is highlighting a deeper issue.

Quote:

Rowancroft73
Shocker of a performance.

To be fair Glasgow have been very solid

Well done Glasgow, a very well deserved win.
I will take time for consideration, but not good.

Dull game made worse by awful commentary

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.

Not much joy for Ex supporters there!! At least Cornwall Chief and The Stoke Canon predicted 21 points for Glasgow!!!!! So a point each.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:12:18:19:27:23 by plymptonchief.

Any positives anyone? Some very interesting comments from Nicol & Kay on comms which are difficult to argue. As Nicol said, at 9/10/12 there is no inspiration or creativity and Kay’s comment ‘ the Chiefs aura has gone’ certainly stacks up in my opinion

That is the worst team performance I’ve seen in years.

Totally outplayed; Well done Glasgow. Destroyed in the scrum, too many errors leading to scrums, our back play predictable and with no penetration. Could have been even worse. Plan A completely found out - no plan B.

Quote:

cornwallchief
Totally outplayed; Well done Glasgow. Destroyed in the scrum, too many errors leading to scrums, our back play predictable and with no penetration. Could have been even worse. Plan A completely found out - no plan B.

Absolutely agree. The scrum is a shadow of its former self and we all knew that losing Tomas Francis would be bad but it’s critically bad now. The handling was unacceptable for players of this quality with so many unforced errors. Lack of leadership on the pitch. Physicality was embarrassing and this is nearly our top pack - they were bullied. Scrum half is a glaringly obvious weakness as well. Very very poor indeed and I can’t see a quick fix.

Scrum half is not a weakness, sort the problems in the pack and the 9 can then play front foot rugby, as he has done so on many occasions including the entire double winning season. Our pack is just not performing at all.

+1 on these points. If you can’t physically beat the BeeJesus out of teams like we used to, then what is the Plan B. We signed a few seasons ago several of the nations best youngsters - Hinckley & Hodge. Not saying they would have made any difference tonight but they are not our mono-system type of players which I find curious given the investment to bring here which I’m told wasn’t cheap

Despite his penalty count, we're missing Williams too. With Francis, that's 2 major pack forces missing. I still expected more, but nonetheless we should be showing better

In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.

Quote:

EX6 CHIEF
+1 on these points. If you can’t physically beat the BeeJesus out of teams like we used to, then what is the Plan B. We signed a few seasons ago several of the nations best youngsters - Hinckley & Hodge. Not saying they would have made any difference tonight but they are not our mono-system type of players which I find curious given the investment to bring here which I’m told wasn’t cheap

I agree completely, we have signed the type of players who could transform our style of play but they don’t get a look in because that type of play doesn’t fit the dreaded script !! That said, without forward domination the backs cant play !!!

Quote:

Broken arrow
Scrum half is not a weakness, sort the problems in the pack and the 9 can then play front foot rugby, as he has done so on many occasions including the entire double winning season. Our pack is just not performing at all.

With respect Ray Charles could see that we desperately need a top quality 9. I’m not saying JM had a total shocker tonight but he was poor along with the entire team. He is sadly consistently average at best which will not suffice if we want to sit at Europe’s top table, in my opinion of course.

Is it significant that BOTH 2nd row Jonnys were replaced?

[quote Flying Pasty][quote Broken arrow]Scrum half is not a weakness, sort the problems in the pack and the 9 can then play front foot rugby, as he has done so on many occasions including the entire double winning season. Our pack is just not performing at all.[/quote]

With respect Ray Charles could see that we desperately need a top quality 9. I’m not saying JM had a total shocker tonight but he was poor along with the entire team. He is sadly consistently average at best which will not suffice if we want to sit at Europe’s top table, in my opinion of course.[/quote

I respect your opinion FP but will disagree with you, unless I’m mistaken Chiefs were sat at the top of both the English and Europe top table with JM in the 9 shirt. I’ve said this many times before and will no doubt come under attack for saying it again, but, JM is the starting 9 because he does as he’s told by the coaches, if he plays the type of game many on this forum would like to see, he would, without doubt, be dropped !!! No half backs can perform behind a misfiring pack, that is a fact.

[quote Broken arrow][quote Flying Pasty][quote Broken arrow]Scrum half is not a weakness, sort the problems in the pack and the 9 can then play front foot rugby, as he has done so on many occasions including the entire double winning season. Our pack is just not performing at all.[/quote]

With respect Ray Charles could see that we desperately need a top quality 9. I’m not saying JM had a total shocker tonight but he was poor along with the entire team. He is sadly consistently average at best which will not suffice if we want to sit at Europe’s top table, in my opinion of course.[/quote

I respect your opinion FP but will disagree with you, unless I’m mistaken Chiefs were sat at the top of both the English and Europe top table with JM in the 9 shirt. I’ve said this many times before and will no doubt come under attack for saying it again, but, JM is the starting 9 because he does as he’s told by the coaches, if he plays the type of game many on this forum would like to see, he would, without doubt, be dropped !!! No half backs can perform behind a misfiring pack, that is a fact.[/quote]

Fair enough, you’re perfectly entitled to your opinion. For me he is very predictable (maybe slavishly following instructions?), his service is slow, and his box kicking average. But what really frustrates me is his lack of inventiveness, sniping and general all round annoyance that any quality 9 should have. He should be a real pain in the backside to the opposition - and I just don’t think he is. I would love to see him blossom into that kind of player but I think it’s something you’re born with.

In fairness to Maunder, his box kicking is very consistent. Whether it looks good or not depends on the chase, Woodburn always used to deliver in that respect far more than many of our other wingers. His return is needed.

BA , I think Quins, who began last season with a flaky defence and an ok pack managed to turn it around with total X factor at 9/10/12. Yes, their pack came on strong and their defence improved post Gustard but imo, had Quins had our 9/10/12 throughout last season, they undoubtedly wouldn’t have won the Prem title. I get the style of play bit etc. but Maunder, Simmonds/Skinner, Whitten/Devoto hardly need too much analysis from opposition coaches.
Even during our brief dominance of all things Prem & Europe we were no more than very efficient and excelled at playing the script . I guess we’re stuck with current personnel at 9 as the big bucks go elsewhere and with priority surely being a world class 3, the coaches need to allow certain players to develop their own game beyond the script.
Can’t think of any Prem team who would ‘swop’ their 9/10/12 for ours, whichever way they play, not even beleaguered Bath Rugby.

Quote:

Rowancroft73
BA , I think Quins, who began last season with a flaky defence and an ok pack managed to turn it around with total X factor at 9/10/12. Yes, their pack came on strong and their defence improved post Gustard but imo, had Quins had our 9/10/12 throughout last season, they undoubtedly wouldn’t have won the Prem title. I get the style of play bit etc. but Maunder, Simmonds/Skinner, Whitten/Devoto hardly need too much analysis from opposition coaches.
Even during our brief dominance of all things Prem & Europe we were no more than very efficient and excelled at playing the script . I guess we’re stuck with current personnel at 9 as the big bucks go elsewhere and with priority surely being a world class 3, the coaches need to allow certain players to develop their own game beyond the script.
Can’t think of any Prem team who would ‘swop’ their 9/10/12 for ours, whichever way they play, not even beleaguered Bath Rugby.

In a way I kind of agree with you !!!! However, our 9 &10 I can assure you are capable of playing the style of rugby many on this forum seem to want, but they can’t, not if they want to keep their starting place, and therein lies the problem.

Whenever I see people on here saying our 9/10 etc. aren't good enough I always think to myself 'hmm. how many premiership sides have you coached?' and I always come up with the same answer ................ i.e., 'I bet it's none'.

We can all sit in front of our keyboards and pontificate on what Jack, Sam S, etc. should or shouldn't do but there is still the overriding fact that there are some very experienced coaches directing some (now) very experienced players what to do - much as they did in the seasons when we won the double.

FFS, stop moaning about our 9/10 combination because that isn't the problem. Our front row is underpowered at the moment; refs are seeing that and we're getting screwed by it.

When I look back a couple or 3 seasons when we lost virtually our 2 starting front rows, I wonder what Bristol are thinking buying up Genge to go with Sinckler - I'd like to see us get back to having 2 steady front rows and building from there.

I don't like criticising refs but I did think Brace only reffed one pack tonight and allowed a number of resets on Glasgow's side when he'd penalised us for exactly the same thing.

Could the late change of ref affected our game plan? During the week I assume the coaches would study how the nominated ref officiates and prep players accordingly but Andrew Brace was bought in at the last minute due the French embargo. I thought his handling of the scrum was sporadic at best.

Quote:

Lowerwatha
Could the late change of ref affected our game plan? During the week I assume the coaches would study how the nominated ref officiates and prep players accordingly but Andrew Brace was bought in at the last minute due the French embargo. I thought his handling of the scrum was sporadic at best.

You can't blame Andrew Brace for the defeat but it certainly helped Glasgow as they have the benefit of previous experience with him and they would know what you can and can't get away with.
I didn't get the impression that we were as bad in the scrum as some imply,I did think there was a lot of them stepping round and their loosehead driving in at an angle. It seemed to be a toss of coin as to which side he was going to punish.

What is without doubt to me personally is that Celtic nations referees are not up to the standard we have in the Premiership or France.

It was not just the fact that our scrum yielded a lot of penalties the whole Glasgow pack played with more energy [LCD and Dave Ewers excepted] The score-line flattered us - we were totally outplayed. Our two international locks were substituted - very odd and Sam Skinner certainly seemed off the pace. We need to be realistic and take it on the chin and see it for what it was - IMO even worse than the Irish defeat. We should not kid ourselves that the ref had much to do with it.

Quote:

Zyder head

Quote:

Lowerwatha
Could the late change of ref affected our game plan? During the week I assume the coaches would study how the nominated ref officiates and prep players accordingly but Andrew Brace was bought in at the last minute due the French embargo. I thought his handling of the scrum was sporadic at best.

You can't blame Andrew Brace for the defeat but it certainly helped Glasgow as they have the benefit of previous experience with him and they would know what you can and can't get away with.
I didn't get the impression that we were as bad in the scrum as some imply,I did think there was a lot of them stepping round and their loosehead driving in at an angle. It seemed to be a toss of coin as to which side he was going to punish.

What is without doubt to me personally is that Celtic nations referees are not up to the standard we have in the Premiership or France.

Agree the scrum seemed to be a mess all game, resets, free kicks and penalties to both sides and occasionally getting the 9s to use it when the front rows collapsed. According to the stats in TRP we won 7 scrums and lost 4, they won 8 and lost 1. What cost us most was conceding 13 penalties to their 6.

Lots of good points made and good insights. But for me, the biggest issue is the fact that Rob and the coaches are not properly addressing the "elephant(s) in the room". There is a consistent and real need to evolve our style of play and our mindset. But i don't want to get into what I think about style or mentality here.... what I do think is needed is for the DOR to face up to the reality that this team is no longer bossing it up front against other teams who have a different collective energy and flair in their squads and who are playing expansive disciplined rugby whilst we continue to plough on playing in a way that worked brilliantly 2,3 or more seasons ago but is now looking more and more anachronistic in today's context. Just saying....

Quote:

IfTruthBeTold
Lots of good points made and good insights. But for me, the biggest issue is the fact that Rob and the coaches are not properly addressing the "elephant(s) in the room". There is a consistent and real need to evolve our style of play and our mindset. But i don't want to get into what I think about style or mentality here.... what I do think is needed is for the DOR to face up to the reality that this team is no longer bossing it up front against other teams who have a different collective energy and flair in their squads and who are playing expansive disciplined rugby whilst we continue to plough on playing in a way that worked brilliantly 2,3 or more seasons ago but is now looking more and more anachronistic in today's context. Just saying....

And I think most of us agree with you.

Worryingly, I think quite a few of the players are starting to think that too !!

Quote:

Broken arrow

Quote:

IfTruthBeTold
Lots of good points made and good insights. But for me, the biggest issue is the fact that Rob and the coaches are not properly addressing the "elephant(s) in the room". There is a consistent and real need to evolve our style of play and our mindset. But i don't want to get into what I think about style or mentality here.... what I do think is needed is for the DOR to face up to the reality that this team is no longer bossing it up front against other teams who have a different collective energy and flair in their squads and who are playing expansive disciplined rugby whilst we continue to plough on playing in a way that worked brilliantly 2,3 or more seasons ago but is now looking more and more anachronistic in today's context. Just saying....

And I think most of us agree with you.

Worryingly, I think quite a few of the players are starting to think that too !!

+! for IfTruthBeTold and BrokenArrow for his additional comment. Many of us have thought this for a little while and if the players do.......their performances will show it

Quote:

plymptonchief
Not much joy for Ex supporters there!! At least Cornwall Chief and The Stoke Canon predicted 21 points for Glasgow!!!!! So a point each.

Woo Hoo!

Quote:

IfTruthBeTold
Lots of good points made and good insights. But for me, the biggest issue is the fact that Rob and the coaches are not properly addressing the "elephant(s) in the room". There is a consistent and real need to evolve our style of play and our mindset. But i don't want to get into what I think about style or mentality here.... what I do think is needed is for the DOR to face up to the reality that this team is no longer bossing it up front against other teams who have a different collective energy and flair in their squads and who are playing expansive disciplined rugby whilst we continue to plough on playing in a way that worked brilliantly 2,3 or more seasons ago but is now looking more and more anachronistic in today's context. Just saying....

I agree but I also can’t ignore the sheer lack of energy and physicality around the pitch last night. We know they still have it as they showed the fire against Sarries - it’s the lack of consistency that’s killing us. It’ll be very interesting to see how we react against Bris.

It may be the case that several players are still feeling the affects of the flu/sickness bug that hit the squad, before the Sarries game we had 7 or 8 players who didn’t train all week, a few I know were still in bed on the Wednesday before the game ! I really hope that’s the case and after a good Xmas break they come back fit and ready to go. It would certainly explain the lack of energy and fight yesterday !!

Quote:

Broken arrow
It may be the case that several players are still feeling the affects of the flu/sickness bug that hit the squad, before the Sarries game we had 7 or 8 players who didn’t train all week, a few I know were still in bed on the Wednesday before the game ! I really hope that’s the case and after a good Xmas break they come back fit and ready to go. It would certainly explain the lack of energy and fight yesterday !!

That’s interesting and would certainly account for the lack of energy. If it was the cause we can only hope for a bounce against Bris barring any Covid infections over Christmas.

Quote:

IfTruthBeTold
Lots of good points made and good insights. But for me, the biggest issue is the fact that Rob and the coaches are not properly addressing the "elephant(s) in the room". There is a consistent and real need to evolve our style of play and our mindset. But i don't want to get into what I think about style or mentality here.... what I do think is needed is for the DOR to face up to the reality that this team is no longer bossing it up front against other teams who have a different collective energy and flair in their squads and who are playing expansive disciplined rugby whilst we continue to plough on playing in a way that worked brilliantly 2,3 or more seasons ago but is now looking more and more anachronistic in today's context. Just saying....

the backs have been trying to play expansive all season and it works against teams that defend narrow, but against teams those defence driffed wide like London Irish we are lost. we can blame the forwards but it was Glasgows 13 and 15 that caused us biggest problems with their carrying. We dont have any backs that have pace and power to make breaks. We needed to be off loading through the middle forwards and backs.

I disagree that we don't have backs with power and pace; I think that's exactly what Hendrickson could bring but he's rarely receiving the ball at pace. I've said it before, a lot of our passing is inaccurate, often high, low or behind the receiver - this isn't conducive to a fast passing game. It's very noticeable when we get it right because that's when we see that our backs are capable of taking a team to pieces.

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ouch!_that_hurts
I disagree that we don't have backs with power and pace; I think that's exactly what Hendrickson could bring but he's rarely receiving the ball at pace. I've said it before, a lot of our passing is inaccurate, often high, low or behind the receiver - this isn't conducive to a fast passing game. It's very noticeable when we get it right because that's when we see that our backs are capable of taking a team to pieces.

Agree about Hendrickson, don’t think we’ve seen the best of him yet, I think it’s fair to say though, that a lot of his games have been when we have had a 2nd rate pack of forwards, I cannot stress enough how much difference it makes to the attack when you’re gain line success is high, it allows you to play front foot rugby, which equals faster ball delivery and means you can take the ball at pace rather than stationary with their rush defence charging at you. Gain line success means their defence is forever having to track back, not charge forward. Forward dominance is the one area we have lost this season.

I don't disagree BA but that doesn't really excuse the poor passing. Yes, having your pack dominated puts pressure on but one thing that seems noticeable about Quins is that even if their pack is losing their backs don't seem to make the same mess of things that we do at the moment.

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ouch!_that_hurts
I don't disagree BA but that doesn't really excuse the poor passing. Yes, having your pack dominated puts pressure on but one thing that seems noticeable about Quins is that even if their pack is losing their backs don't seem to make the same mess of things that we do at the moment.

True, perhaps their backs are better drilled than ours or they at least know what they are supposed to be doing ! It sometimes looks like we don't actually have a plan A, B or C !!

BA could you be any more negative ?
If you can then i suggest you get a job with the BBC

[quote Chief Sitting Down]BA could you be any more negative ?
If you can then i suggest you get a job with the BBC[/quote

I apologise.