Intial thoughts

 

Having just sat through the agony of yet another error strewn match against a fairly ordinary Llanelli side, I despair of the Saints. Remarkably they gained an undeserved bonus point thanks to poor kicking from Jones. At no stage did we get decent ball from set plays; scrums were lost against the head, own line-outs lost, balls turned over, dropped passes, often slow to the breakdown - it was all there as has been so depressingly prevalent of late,especially away from home. Frankly I don't know where we go from here. No doubt I'll be shot down in flames for daring to criticise!  tedge

 

Where we go is back to Franklins and kick Agens butt!!
That's the good thing about sport tedge, there's always next week!! Dan P Cooper

 

Don't get so defensive Terry, if people disagree with you they disagree with you.  I wasn't particularly impressed with Llanelli ether but we just didn't have the nous to put them away. Chris the Saint

 

Just out of interest Tedge how did you rate both defences?  Personally I was fairly pleased to see our defence tightened up - bar the first five minutes when I thought they were going to put 50 past us. I am majorly concerned with Tom Smith leaving the field as he did.   Hippo

If we expected to go there and win the forward battle we are fools, however our defence did look much better than of late and with slightly better skills, running line from Bealer, driving position from Robbie or chip from Bruce we could (which would have been a whole years worth of get out of jail free cards) have won the game…………The injury to Tam looked VERY worrying.
They really did out smart us up front and the incident picked up by Redman on Sky after the game summed it up along with the “ability” of the ref to miss multi infringements and this is a real worry, us not the ref. We have enough experience to prevent this happening or at the very least to return the compliment, we did neither and as such this was the platform they won the game from and fair play to them for that…… Ajack

 

We do seem to have an infuriating ability not to adjust to referees interpretations of whats good and whats not.  Chris the Saint

 

Quite an entertaining match to watch.  I think Saints won't be that disappointed with the result.
Considering the pressure we were under, only conceeding one try was excellent compared to previous performances this season. Is that down to Air Ben returning?……… Sharky had a good game and came very close twice… Fat Alan

 

I'd forgotten just how good Grace's kicking from hand was. He put enormous distance on it.  I was disappointed with Stephen Jones. West Midlands Saint

 

This group seems to be about:
Win home games
Win at least one away game
Get a bonus point from your away losses
Deny opposition any losing bonuses.
An 8 point victory againts Llanelli at FG cancells out last nights match. Sounds simple, if only it was!

 St Rich Joe & Niamh’s Dad

 

I was relieved to get a bonus point but if Bruise had put two inches extra on his kick we might have actually beaten them.
I think Scarlets have a long way to go if they are to be real candidates for the trophy.  Too many errors made by both sides AND Barney McHugh............... West Midlands Saint

 

Wally

 

wally had a dissapointing return to be fair .
It would be easy for me to slag him off but i wont.
We sometimes forget how difficult it must be to sustain a high level of performance, in particular when the standards are so very high.
Its also very difficult to come on as a sub and adjust to the game, get into the swing of things.
Making a big impact can be tough, particularly when youre going backwards.
BUT,  I am beginning to worry that wally is being singled out and was put under enourmous pressure on his own scrummage and lineout.
Barnesy went for the jugular on commentary, which im no doubt you will all see for the underhanded, spiteful display of the good ol' build em up knock em down tactic which is so pre-eminent in the british press. Rob Richmond

 

It was very noticable his lineout throwing is very bad. Will this keep him out of the England side? I am not having a pop but surely one of the most important parts of a hookers game is his lineout. Basic skills!  This all comming from someone who supports a team where basic skills seem to have gone AWAL. Big Tiger

 

I dunno, his throwing wasn't that bad! The steal at the front of the lineout was due to the call being telegraphed well in advance - even I knew where that was going! 1 of the others (to jumper 3, I think) was good play from Lanelly, so there was just the 1 where the ball missed the jumper - and we eventually came up with it!   Beef

 

I also think that had Lordy been jumping at 2 our ball would have been more secure and the same goes when we have a good jumper at 4 rather than asking utility back 5 players like Hunter to do the job. If Williams, Lord, Pountney had been well and Connors had been 100% then Saints lineout may have faired much better.
Also Scrum took a pounding. That is a worry because I don't see anyone being able to improve this unless Morris comes of age very soon.
In the mauls Sky highlighted how Scarlets nicked Saints ball. Wily old trickery that the ref couldn't spot.
BUT......a very important point is that only three teams have won a European match against Llanelli at Stradey Park. It's a very hard place to win! St Rich Joe & Niamh’s Dad

 

 

Shock Horror - Jumper Doesn't Jump, Lifter Doen't Lift, Opposition Do Both, blame the hooker.  Especially in the RWC Final it is crass and ignorant to blame the hooker for not hitting Ben Kay running backwards an being neither lifted properly nor launching himself as he should. Blame the support, blame the jumper blame the caller for calling something that has not been rehearsed sufficiently - no that would require analysis and proper thought.  I know - let's blame the hooker. oddshapedballs

 

Scrum to me looked good to begin with (but then what do I know???) and to be honest Dan looked much better this week than last with his throwing.
Wally however just seemed rattled (something about a musical instrument and an animal comes to mind).  Hippo

 

With regard to the lineout, it really is not all down to Wally the writing was on the wall before he came on. If you watch again early on we moved the unit around and often we put space between them and the others and as such were winning our own ball, although even then not getting that good a ball away, towards the end it was just getting cramped again allowing them to compete in multi positions. The only plus on this was they focused on this and the over the top ball to Sharky nearly caught them out, but I find it hard to believe we keep losing ball for the chance of one sucker punch.
Wally was always going to be targeted when he came on and you can be sure the whole of their front row were quizzing him on certain aspects of his game, however if he wants to carry the best hooker in the world tag his play has to do the talking and come up with better answers. Ajack

 

The opposition fan view

(Note from the compiler - Not a skilled nor tasteful fisherman is he but included purely for humorous purposes)

 

I was at the game last night and was so disappointed in the Saints performance, especially the pack who were put to bed quite easily. The backs showed no imagination, and Saints were lucky in the end to come away with a bonus point. Thompson was very poor when he came on, with his line out throwing, shocking. While Llanelli Scarlets played way below par they totally deserved the win. Johnny Bach

 

Must say, apart from Quinnell and Peel Llanelli didn't impress me greatly either.  You can slate our team all you want but at the end of the day on your home patch you only scraped through by five points. Chris the Saint

 

When you think Llanelli didn't threaten our goal line apart from the one try and we had a couple of oportunities that went begging, Llanelli were the ones that were poor especially playing at home.
Amazed at how poorly Stephen Jones kicked, to fall short on an attempt well inside his own half is not the performance of an International kicker.
However, I agree with you Mr. Bach, Saints were poor but they still should have beaten you if they had put away their clear cut chances. Saint.Kenneth

 

Should have beaten Llanelli? You must have been watching a different game. The Scarlets pack took the Saints pack apart to the extent that none of the front row and only one second row finished the game. And "if" is a very big word. For example "IF" Stephen Jones had kicked all his kicks when Wales played England in RWC, Wales would have won.....but he didn't....and Wales lost.....just like a poor Saints side last night. Johnny Bach

 

You won didn't you? But only by five points, a very strong looking Llanelli playing at home. Didn't someone predict Llanelli by 30 points. That was one of the Saints better defensive performances this season - might even be their best. Fat Alan

 

Well said Jonny boy..............you've just won our 'Most One-Eyed Award' for December........................and thats going some. Chris the Saint

 

Jones kicking was awful. Saints kicked away possession all night , when they did keep it in hand we created a couple of chances.  Both teams nervous and the overall game was not much of a spectacle. Both will need to improve to win the group. Bonus points will be important.  Overall defences ruled and the result was probably just about right given the balance of play. Howlin

 

Initially I was depressed after the watching the game on MurdochVision, but then again - Llanelli at home only by (a very dubious!) 5 pointer from Quinnel - very interesting at FG!!. BUT we must erradicate the errors. Too many knock ons cost us a famous victory.
In open play Air Shine seemed very good, but I thought Larry's decision making and tactical/territotry kicking was superior. Dorcan8

 

Watching the game live I thought that both teams were far too nervous about not getting off to a bad start. There were far too many simple errors going on for both sides………… Saints didn't give them many sniffs at our line whereas with better approach work/ finishing I thought we could have / should have scored a try in each half. ……In all I was more disappointed in Llanelli's performance than ours. Put it this way if we play at FG like Llanelli played at Strady then I don't think we'll be bothering Twix for Tix next May. As it is though, if we play anything near like we are capable of in the return fixture and Scarlets dish up the same performance then, its Saints onwards and upwards…… I did think that we started to look more positive when Larry came on and started to attack more and turn the pressure up on Scarlets defence. Biggysaint

Quote “Apart from the importance to the home team of winning the three home games, the away team has to try and win: playing away presents different opportunities.”
Apart from stating the obvious, this assumes that Scarlets are up it - the Scarlets I saw on Friday night did not seem to be able to change the game plan, and certainly did not take "different opportunities", presented to them on a plate by Saints. St. Marlowes

I'd forgotten just how good Grace's kicking from hand was. He put enormous distance on it.
I was disappointed with Stephen Jones.
Wally's appearance seemed to lift Llanelli more than it did us.
As you say, I think we're happy with the bonus point and I'm fairly confident about the return at the Gardens. West Midlands Saint

 

This group seems to be about:
Win home games
Win at least one away game
Get a bonus point from your away losses
Deny opposition any losing bonuses.
An 8 point victory againts Llanelli at FG cancells out last nights match. Sounds simple, if only it was!

St Rich Joe & Niamh’s Dad

Another opposition fan’s view (included on merit!!)

First of all we won, and winning is everything. To qualify we probably need to win four games: now we need to win three out of the next five, however, bonus points are a complication this year.
Reasons to be positive:
1. Six of the eight forwards that started the game, the half backs, and two other backs, were playing their first match for the Scarlets since September. One was playing his first ever match for us. Teamwork can only improve and the complicated moves that failed to work last night will eventually work.
2. I felt we came on top in most of the set pieces.
3. The loss of Wyatt so early in the game was a big blow: the team can only improve in the return match
4. Steven can't play so badly next time: his goal kicking is normally 80% true.
5. We never seem to impress in the opening match.
Reasons to be negative:
1. That bonus point could turn out to be valuable.
2. You should have scored at least one try.
3. You defended well when it counted. Tjones

To be honest, where I was standing in the ground it was very difficult to see much of the first try (as St Tim wickedly taunted a local about for the full game). And I haven't had chance (or the inclination) to watch the game on video yet. So thanks tj for pointing out that the try was offside.
 I thought McHugh made his first mistake with the secoind touch of the game (when we knocked on and he ignored it) and he continued to be off the pace, guessing and easily led all evening.
Right - that's all the negatives out of the way. Forget McHugh. If you tried to work out the result on some sort of count-back system you'd be still working it out at Christmas. DM was the ref and you get on with it just as all the players did.
I thought both teams played with determination and no honour was lost by anyone. …..Both defences were magnificent. The video may make a fool of me here but I thought the tackling (and the lack of missed tackles) was immense. Not the sort of games you remember forever (especially when you lose) but a good match all the same………Llanelli motm for me would be 6, 7 or 12. It's going to be hard to pick a Saint from that game. I'll watch the video but I suspect my vote will be for Seely or Fox. Ballagher

We watched the video last night after Southampton's fantastic victory (at least we had one this weekend) and we looked a lot better than we did live. Also Lllanelli looked worse than they did live. Apart from the try they did not get behind us that much. We had Sharky's two efforts and the Bruce pat-a-cake. So you could say equal opportunities to score tries. Both teams were amazingly good on 'penalty in kicking distance' terms. Until the glut in the last 10 minutes.
I don't think it does any good to compare teams by video. One thing I have learnt at Saints is that we can cancel out opposition strengths and until you play them you can't pre-judge the outcome. I have also learnt that we can beat anyone and be turned over by anyone.  Laurie

Quinnel try’s

With regard to the try Quinnel seemed to come in from the side and get ahead of the ball in the ruck/maul could not see the position of the ball and pick it up behind him, is this legal? Not that it matters now.  Ajack

Quinnel was offside when he picked up the ball and scored the "try" after various other illegal shenanigans. Howlin

As a neutral I think Scarlets deserved the win but i am suprised you lot are not up in arms over Quinells try when he picked the ball up from an offside position. Glostump

Quinell WAS offside and Air Ben did suggest this to the ref! By Quinell's own admission his foot was over the try line - and therefore on the Nuthampton side of the ruck - when he picked up the ball! On balance. I feel Scarlets deserved the win as they seemed to play the better attacking rugby, and seemed to want it.  Dorcan8

Quinell was definitly off side when he scored, but Scarlets were the better team all night. Scarlets will have to improve no end though if they want the cup, as will we. James Simons-Boswell

Stradey park etc

We all know the Welsh love their singing but that was awesome and what a superb welcome before and of course after the game.
V. disappointed with Llanelli's back play - they hammered us up front but had only 'put it wide' in the threes. For sure it looked fast and pretty but to be honest, after the first five minutes when did they look like scoring? Wonderfully one eyed support that puts Gloss in the shade……. Great experience - Glad I was there . West Midlands Saint

 Didn't think much of the famous stradey atmoshere. Howlin

I thought that the Scarlet fans were great but a little subdued, and I was suprised that it was not a full house.
If I was a Scarlets supporter I would be worried that they didn't make home advantage pay more if they were really aspiring to set the cup campaign off to a good start. Biggysaint

The locals of Llanelli (both supporters at the game and beforehand around the town) were marvellously welcoming. Well done to you all. The singing was fantastic.
I intuitively felt both during and after the game that Llanelli were well worth their victory. The only thing is, I can't quite figure out why. They certainly tried some clever moves in the backs - but they didn't get far to be honest. Most progress was from breakaway ball. Ballagher

I still think the deciding factor at the end of the pool stage will be which of us and Scarlets get the best result from Agen. To have come away from Stradey with a losing bonus point was a good result - the draw favoured us in giving us the toughest game first, as Llanelli will definitely improve as the season goes on.
I've got to add that I had a brilliant time before during and after the game. Shaddo

Penalty try??

Saints could quite easliy been awarded a penalty try for the deliberate knock into touch or at least a man in the bin which woud have made it interesting……….  Howlin

Thank you Howlin - thought I was the only one that thought the deliberate slap into touch was AT LEAST a yellow if not a penalty try; after all it was Air Bruce after the ball wasn't it?
Dorcan8

On reflection, think us getting a bonus point is about fair - we should have been given a penalty try when a Llanelli player deliberately knocked on Bruce's chip and chase (and Ballagher agrees!), however if Jones had his kicking boots on it wouldn't have mattered. Smurfomatic

As Smurf suggests, I DID think the deliberate knock into touch warranted a pen try (as there really was nothing else to stop the run in) though quite why the player didn't try and catch the ball is beyond me.  Ballagher

Thought the slap out to touch was a yellow card and not really a PT. The ref did have a shocker though missing things on both sides. James Simons-Boswell