Latest news:

Build on the Buzz: Wasps v Bath


Rokodoguni: sharp

By P G Tips
October 30 2019

Bath will want to harness the buzz of last week’s victory when they visit Wasps on Saturday. The character and tenacity that turned the team’s fortunes from one derby to the next are just the start. Now they will be looking for a complete performance and the first away win of the season. Winless Wasps sit only a point off the bottom courtesy of a losing bonus point. They seem highly vulnerable, but will be desperate for a first win of their own. Will they react with venom when their nest is poked?

Wasps have started poorly, but in theory at least, should be doing better. They have only two World Cup absentees, a clutch of exciting backs and enviable riches at loose forward. Dai Young, once thought a likely successor to Warren Gatland as Wales coach, has an eminent Lions playing pedigree.  As a coach he fashioned packs as hard nosed as his own reputation and took Wasps to the Premiership Final in 2017, playing a mix of the exciting and pragmatic reminiscent of Wasps’ glory days at the beginning of the millennium. Now though, there are dark mutterings about his performance and future.

 

The vultures may not be circling just yet, but Young and his squad will not want their season to slump further. Which is why they should be far more dangerous than results suggest.  After last Friday, Bath will need no reminding of the defiance a wounded beast can summon. A swarming assault can be expected.

 

So who are the hosts danger men? Their props made Gloucester struggle in the scrum last week, drawing several penalties. Gaskell will hope to rule the lineout, probably with help from Matthews, while Shields, Johnson and Carr will threaten on the carry and at the breakdown. Jack Willis though could be missing with a knee problem and Thomas Young remains on the long-term injury list. Behind the scrum, Dan Robson is also struggling with a knee injury and may not make it. A midfield chosen from Gopperth (who may be back to fitness), Sopoaga, De Jong and Fekitoa, should bring control, guile and pace to the attack. However it is the less celebrated Kibirige and Watson who have spearheaded the running threat recently.

 

Bath have definitely lost Clark who has had surgery on the hamstring he damaged at Ashton Gate. Dunn and Chudley should be fit, but there is as yet no news on Faletau. The selection is likely to be much the same as against Exeter, although I personally hope that Chris Cook’s speed of pass and thought last week is rewarded with a start.

 

So what should be the approach? First of all, Bath need the win for momentum. That means drawing Wasps sting: dominating possession and territory, forcing mistakes from their opponents to build pressure and scores. If Bath scrummage hard as they did against Chiefs there will be opportunities to kick for goal or launch their lineout drives. Wasps’ own lineout can be pressured: Gaskell is susceptible to wind up and Bath’s jumpers must contest the throw to make it “mission impossible” for Tom Cruse or Tommy Taylor the throwers.

 

With light rain and a gentle breeze expected on Saturday, an accurate kicking game will be needed but Bath also showed themselves capable of some decent handling in last week’s poor conditions. Hopefully they will find ways to work the ball wide to Brew and Rokodoguni as they did to Levi Davis in some of the PRC games.

 

A lot of Bath’s strike power will be at work earlier in the day in Yokohama, but Rokodoguni looked sharp ball in hand last Friday as did Brew on occasion. Mercer and the tight forwards can play their part too-especially at close quarters. Bath have had the better of the last few encounters between the teams- 3 wins and a draw from their meetings last season. If they are to improve on last year’s poor away record, the Ricoh where they gained their most convincing 2019 Premiership win on the road would be a good place to start.  It is time to take the buzz up another notch and deliver a few stings themselves.

 

Possible Teams:

Bath:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (C), Stooke, Williams, Ellis, Mercer.

Cook, Priestland. Brew, Roberts, Wright, Rokodoguni. Homer.

Replacements: Boyce, Batty, Judge, McNally, Bayliss. Chudley, Burns, Hamer –Webb.

 

Wasps:

Zhvania, Cruse, Brookes, Gaskell, Matthews, Shields, Carr, Vailanu. Robson, Sopoaga. Bassett, de Jonge, Fekitoa, Kibirige. Watson.

Replacements: Taylor, Harris, Toomaga-Allen, Rowlands, Johnson. Wolstenholme, Umaga, Miller.

 

View a Printer Friendly version of this Story.

Bookmark or share this story with:

Teams Up! Build on the Buzz: Wasps v Bath
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 30/10/2019 08:18
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
30/10/2019 08:18
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:06:11:09:02 by P G Tips.

opti
Optimist
30/10/2019 09:46
I like the idea of rewarding Chris Cook with a start - but he has been delivering one-off performances like that and promising to break through for about 26 years now.

I see Ant Watson is hinting at Wasps that they should let Marcus fly out to Japan, like Curry. Top work Ant - a win-win situation for Bath!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
30/10/2019 09:57
I like Marcus Watson and that's a great idea regarding brotherly unity but they are not twins so its not really the same.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
31/10/2019 15:06
Marcus on his way to Japan as we speak! Excellent news all round.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
31/10/2019 22:29
"Caught by the Fuzz
While I was still on the buzz"

smiling smiley

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

gaz59
gaz59
01/11/2019 08:55
Well this must be one of those top 5 away win targets. Just wish Jimmy Gopperth had another week off recovery, his game management nous could make a big difference to their performance and with Rowlands back that will add to their grunt up front which will help them given the weather forecast

Apprehensive but hopeful so long as we don't regress to the Ashton Gate performance

P G Tips
P G Tips
01/11/2019 12:09
Team up-6 changes.

BATH RUGBY TEAM TO FACE WASPS

15. Freddie Burns

14. Semesa Rokoduguni

13. Max Wright

12. Jamie Roberts

11. Aled Brew

10. Rhys Priestland

9. Chris Cook

1. Lewis Boyce

2. Jack Walker

3. Will Stuart

4. Elliott Stooke

5. Charlie Ewels

6. Mike Williams

7. Josh Bayliss

8. Zach Mercer

Replacements

16. Tom Dunn

17. Beno Obano

18. Henry Thomas

19. Josh McNally

20. Tom Ellis

21. Ollie Fox

22. Alex Davies

23. Gabriel Hamer-Webb

P G Tips



Levi Davis: my adopted Player, 2019-20.

bardofavon
bardofavon
01/11/2019 12:13
not a bad side from us given the absentee list. i hope we dont have to sub any backs- the bench options look weak to non-existent.

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
01/11/2019 12:14
Interesting that we've made that many changes but I can see an argument for all of them.

Pleasing to see the strength in depth in the forwards, with the subs bench groaning with power. Great to see Thomas back. The backs are a bit cobbled together, but with Cook, Priestland and Burns on the field, I'd suggest we kick the leather off it and try and grind out a valuable away win. Wasps have Gopperth back, mind, so won't be easy.

Add our World Cup stars, especially the backs, to that pack and we've got a very good looking XXIII. A win tomorrow would send us into a vital home game next week in fine fettle.

RossM
RossM
01/11/2019 12:25
For your delectation:

15 Matteo Minozzi

14 Zach Kibirige

13 Malakai Fekitoa

12 Jimmy Gopperth

11 Paolo Odogwu

10 Lima Sopoaga

9 Dan Robson (c)

1 Zurabi Zhvania

2 Tommy Taylor

3 Kieran Brookes

4 James Gaskell

5 Will Rowlands

6 Brad Shields

7 Nizaam Carr

8 Sione Vailanu

Replacements 16 Tom Cruse, 17 Ben Harris, 18 Jeff Toomaga-Allen, 19 Thibaud Flament, 20 Ash Johnson, 21 Sam Wolstenholme, 22 Billy Searle, 23 Michael Le Bourgeois

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01/11/2019 12:44
Given the limited numbers of backs, its not great timing for Levi Davis to be away with the X-Factor, he would be getting some valuable game time otherwise - potentially his only opportunities this year with the cavalry on their way back soon.

Good to see Henry Thomas back. Is Batty injured or just 3rd choice?

COYB!

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

dcsh
dcsh
01/11/2019 14:42
That is quite a front row that we can bring off the bench, in fact all 5 forward replacements can make an impact. Slightly less confidence in the replacement backs, hopefully that wonít be called on early.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01/11/2019 15:10
Quote:
BathMatt53
Given the limited numbers of backs, its not great timing for Levi Davis to be away with the X-Factor, he would be getting some valuable game time otherwise - potentially his only opportunities this year with the cavalry on their way back soon?
COYB!

Levi Davis needs to decide whether he wants to be a rugby player or not.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
01/11/2019 15:43
Have Wasps players got the most exotic names in the Premiership?

opti
Optimist
01/11/2019 15:54
Hefty looking pack, with hefty bench - much as it was against Bris and Exe. On a relatively dry day, we got given the run around, and on a windy, rainy day we slugged our way to an impressive win. But tomorrow, we have two playmakers - it's worked before, and it's gone wrong before - I suppose because Burns is comfortable in the second playmaking role, but not necessarily in the full-back role. Will that mean we play a bit of rugby. I hope so. Much as the Exe game was uplifting, it would be nice to get that ball into Roko and Brew's hands a bit.

One player who deserves a bit of a mention is Jack Walker, who has started to look like the player we hoped he'd be.

MESSAGES->author
hemington
01/11/2019 16:36
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Given the limited numbers of backs, its not great timing for Levi Davis to be away with the X-Factor, he would be getting some valuable game time otherwise - potentially his only opportunities this year with the cavalry on their way back soon?
COYB!

Levi Davis needs to decide whether he wants to be a rugby player or not.
Any rugby player can be out of a job any week with a career ending injury. I think it's great to encourage them to have back-up careers or to be working towards an after rugby career. Or maybe he just wants a break from the awful coaching setup.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01/11/2019 17:18
Quote:
hemington
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
BathMatt53
Given the limited numbers of backs, its not great timing for Levi Davis to be away with the X-Factor, he would be getting some valuable game time otherwise - potentially his only opportunities this year with the cavalry on their way back soon?
COYB!

Levi Davis needs to decide whether he wants to be a rugby player or not.
Any rugby player can be out of a job any week with a career ending injury. I think it's great to encourage them to have back-up careers or to be working towards an after rugby career. Or maybe he just wants a break from the awful coaching setup.

Having a back up career is entirely sensible and the club should encourage this, but to go missing when we need him suggests he's not 100% committed to rugby.

However when you look at Bath's 9/10/12 it unlikely we need wingers anyway, total contrast to the excellent looking Wasps 9/10/12.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
01/11/2019 19:29
Ref: Anthony Woodthorpe
Asst Refs: JP Doyle & Paul Dix
TMO: Geoff Warren
Citing Officer: Paul Hull

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

ChippenhamRoman
ChippenhamRoman
01/11/2019 20:04
I see Wasps have let Marcus Watson head out to Japan to watch his brother play in the final.

Their loss is our gain.

J

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
02/11/2019 12:00
Bet the siblings enjoyed that as a watch! Anthony had a great world cup though.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:07
Good start from the BBW. 3-0, Rhys pen.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:10
Ollie Fix starting as quite a fe suffering from a bug, including Cookie.

MESSAGES->author
TCM2007
02/11/2019 15:21
Is there no video streaming on the betting apps this year?

Stuart

Former ed.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:24
O-3 after 20 mins. Wasps hit post with a pen.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:25
Unibet are streaming it 👍👍

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:26
O-6 another Rhys pen.

opti
Optimist
02/11/2019 15:29
Cheers Stu - that prompted me to log on to Bet365,. Only joined to be able to livestream games and now it appears they donít any more. Still, I discovered I had £20 credit which Iíd forgotten. Might have a flutter on next England coach.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:31
3-6 Wasps pen after 28 mins - Bayliss offside.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:34
6-6 Bayliss deliberate knock on - lucky to escape a yellow.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:39
6-9. 35 mins. Wasps offside. Rhys pen. Quite a scrappy game, but BBW competing well.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:42
Still 6-9. Bath offside. Missed pen by Wasps. Lots of pens conceded by both sides. Scrappy.

MESSAGES->author
abendanon-anon-anon
02/11/2019 15:43
Listening on radio, seems Bath giving away lots of penalties (again)

Commentator advised 8 Bath penalties in first half



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:02:15:50:46 by abendanon-anon-anon.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 15:46
HT. Wasps got pen in clock red time. Kicked into corner. Try. Converted. 13-9

What [which?] radio please?

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:07
Radio Bristol, or streaming on Unibet

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:12
Good start to Second half. Great break from Rocky. Try Bath - going upstairs. Try Y/N? Yes - Zach try. 13-16.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:16
Great drive from the pack again. Pen under the posts. Rhys again. 13-19.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:20
Wright off or HIA. 54 mins.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/11/2019 16:21
Thanks for the updates 22DO, sounding positive so far. Is the weather as terrible as it is in Bath?

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
02/11/2019 16:25
Quote:
Optimist
Cheers Stu - that prompted me to log on to Bet365,. Only joined to be able to livestream games and now it appears they donít any more. Still, I discovered I had £20 credit which Iíd forgotten. Might have a flutter on next England coach.
Yeah, a bit POíd with this as well. I might fire up a Unibet account instead.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:33
Wasps try after forward drive. Converted 20-19. Wright back on for Hamer-Webb after HIA. 15 to go.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:40
Aargh. Another Wasps try. Good break from Cruz, Robson takes offload. 27-19.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:44
Bath scrum pen. Rhys drills it into 5e corner. Common you Baaaarth.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:46
Turned over. Henry Thomas lasted about 5 mins before limping off with what looks like a serious injury.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:49
Yet another scrum pen to Bath. Pack have been excellent. Rhys kicks for posts. 3 points.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:49
27-22. Last play.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:51
83 mns. Bath still trying

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:53
20 phases. Ends in Wasps pen in kickable position, which would deny us the LBP. 😩😩Aargh. Donít deserve to come away with nothing.

22Dropout
22Dropout
02/11/2019 16:54
30-22 final score. Off for a few beers to drown the double sorrow.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/11/2019 16:56
Unfortunate ending.

Thatís 3 prem games and no backs tries despite seeming parity up front - the England boys canít come back fast enough IMO.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
abendanon-anon-anon
02/11/2019 16:57
Last weekend - Bath & England win; this weekend both lose
Sickening to lose the LBP

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
02/11/2019 16:58
I am about to leave the ground and I was happy to take the LBP. The onfield leadership to realise we have no attacking threat for 79 minutes was utterly pathetic. We have a pack to win a tight game and a plan to make sure it isnít tight.

MESSAGES->author
abendanon-anon-anon
02/11/2019 16:59
Who's our attack coach again?

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
02/11/2019 17:00
Quote:
22Dropout
30-22 final score. Off for a few beers to drown the double sorrow.

Thanks for the updates - not good, only need Lewis bumped off the track to make it a poor weekend unlike the last ! (Sm128)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
02/11/2019 17:08
Quote:
ken_jnr
I am about to leave the ground and I was happy to take the LBP. The onfield leadership to realise we have no attacking threat for 79 minutes was utterly pathetic. We have a pack to win a tight game and a plan to make sure it isnít tight.

Donít worry itíll all be fixed in next weeks training (Sm100). Who have we got next week ? Oh dear (Sm136)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Ali1969
Ali1969
02/11/2019 17:26
Bad weekend England, then this result compounded by Tigers win - Bottom of Premiership.

Another example of lack of our composure - With a LBP in the bag we try and create the miracle play and end up giving away a penalty and coming away with nothing.

Niaive to say the least the difference between challengers and clubs fighting at the base of the league, at least come away with something!!!!

I hope the returning cavalry and Hats can change things. Wasps were there for the taking today, our lack of attack given our platform is a real concern..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:02:17:35:26 by Ali1969.

SlideKing53
Supermoto
02/11/2019 17:50
When is it not "too soon" to panic?!

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
02/11/2019 17:52
Quote:
Supermoto
When is it not "too soon" to panic?!

If we are in the bottom three at Xmas ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
02/11/2019 17:57
It was okey to try to win the game but once the ball got into our half we should have not have continue playing. Thatís no points from two winnable games. Worrying, but not as much as for us West Ham fans!

opti
Optimist
02/11/2019 17:59
Quote:
Ali1969
Another example of lack of our composure - With a LBP in the bag we try and create the miracle play and end up giving away a penalty and coming away with nothing.
Niaive to say the least..

I would be absolutely fíing fuming if a team I played for, coached or supported booted the ball off the pitch while in possession and within a score for the sake of 1 league point - especially when we actually had that point as well as the ball.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
02/11/2019 18:18
Well Mr Hooper bottom of the table and still no attack to speak of. Who is this bloke Dempsey? What does he do apart from fill up the soap dispensers at the Spa?

Sorry guys, the pair have to go. Every respect for Hatley but he is going to have to shore up the forwards, sort out the defence and instigate an attack. No pressure there then. Or possibly he may stay in Japan on the saki.

What were we doing try to play from our own half when a losing bonus point was there for the taking. Very poor decision and woeful on field leadership. Not unusual for Bath and a continuing thread......

Ah well. Did people see what Irish nearly achieved at Saracens? They got closer than we have done in years.
10th is looking over ambitious.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:02:18:23:49 by Bathovalballer.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 18:30
Just when you think the day can't get any worse....

Barnoid
Barnoid
02/11/2019 18:38
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Well Mr Hooper bottom of the table and still no attack to speak of. Who is this bloke Dempsey? What does he do apart from fill up the soap dispensers at the Spa?
Sorry guys, the pair have to go. Every respect for Hatley but he is going to have to shore up the forwards, sort out the defence and instigate an attack. No pressure there then. Or possibly he may stay in Japan on the saki.

What were we doing try to play from our own half when a losing bonus point was there for the taking. Very poor decision and woeful on field leadership. Not unusual for Bath and a continuing thread......

Ah well. Did people see what Irish nearly achieved at Saracens? They got closer than we have done in years.
10th is looking over ambitious.

Curious where you watched the game BoB?

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 18:39
I was there. Free tickets from a mate.

It was awful. Pointless listing how we gave away the bonus point in the last play by trying to run out of our try line. Or couldnít control the ball a few seconds before half time before penalty for holding on and try to Wasps right on HT.

Frankly a good thing weíre bottom. Hopefully the catalyst for a compete overhaul of this shambles of a club, on and off the field. Fed up with this nonsense.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 18:48
Quote:
ballsout
I was there. Free tickets from a mate.
It was awful. Pointless listing how we gave away the bonus point in the last play by trying to run out of our try line. Or couldnít control the ball a few seconds before half time before penalty for holding on and try to Wasps right on HT.

Frankly a good thing weíre bottom. Hopefully the catalyst for a compete overhaul of this shambles of a club, on and off the field. Fed up with this nonsense.

If you had that power would you wait for the RWC players to return first and see what Hoops (or potentially a new HC) can do with them?

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 19:08
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
ballsout
I was there. Free tickets from a mate.
It was awful. Pointless listing how we gave away the bonus point in the last play by trying to run out of our try line. Or couldnít control the ball a few seconds before half time before penalty for holding on and try to Wasps right on HT.

Frankly a good thing weíre bottom. Hopefully the catalyst for a compete overhaul of this shambles of a club, on and off the field. Fed up with this nonsense.

If you had that power would you wait for the RWC players to return first and see what Hoops (or potentially a new HC) can do with them?

They havenít helped in years so Iím not sure what our out of their depth coaches can do. Genuinely donít care about results for the rest of the season, in fact finishing 11th or 12th will be better in the long run. The club canít go on like this.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 19:12
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
ballsout
I was there. Free tickets from a mate.
It was awful. Pointless listing how we gave away the bonus point in the last play by trying to run out of our try line. Or couldnít control the ball a few seconds before half time before penalty for holding on and try to Wasps right on HT.

Frankly a good thing weíre bottom. Hopefully the catalyst for a compete overhaul of this shambles of a club, on and off the field. Fed up with this nonsense.

If you had that power would you wait for the RWC players to return first and see what Hoops (or potentially a new HC) can do with them?

They havenít helped in years so Iím not sure what our out of their depth coaches can do. Genuinely donít care about results for the rest of the season, in fact finishing 11th or 12th will be better in the long run. The club canít go on like this.

I understand but the question was about timing, when do you rip up the current plan. Too soon I would say.

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 19:14
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Quote:
ballsout
I was there. Free tickets from a mate.
It was awful. Pointless listing how we gave away the bonus point in the last play by trying to run out of our try line. Or couldnít control the ball a few seconds before half time before penalty for holding on and try to Wasps right on HT.

Frankly a good thing weíre bottom. Hopefully the catalyst for a compete overhaul of this shambles of a club, on and off the field. Fed up with this nonsense.

If you had that power would you wait for the RWC players to return first and see what Hoops (or potentially a new HC) can do with them?

They havenít helped in years so Iím not sure what our out of their depth coaches can do. Genuinely donít care about results for the rest of the season, in fact finishing 11th or 12th will be better in the long run. The club canít go on like this.

I understand but the question was about timing, when do you rip up the current plan. Too soon I would say.

For appearances sake itís too soon to do it now. But itís going to be done eventually. Has to. For the sake of this club.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
02/11/2019 19:16
It is so so refreshing to hear new and different opinions on the game backed up by reasoned analysis with examples. as a treat give us an example BoB to prove you haven't cut and pasted it from last week.

I'll not repeat what I said last week in response to our resident moaner because it is part of forum rules not to repeat the same opinion week after week. Suffice it to say that coaches and players can't coach and be coached if they are 6000 miles away. Everyone needs to be in the same country at least.

If the club start scratching around for losing bonus points at the expense of the chance for a result I would be very disappointed. 80th minute is where defences are at their most tired no harm in going for it.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Trawling
Trawling
02/11/2019 19:21
I've got news for you Bo, this IS the overhaul. They've ditched plan A to give the job to Hooper, unless you know someone else with Dyson and Craig's money, they're not going anywhere. FFS stop asking for the umpteenth reboot. You can't invent a culture, you have to build it. We need the confidence to play some JC2 stick it up your jumper rugby and reintegrate the internationals, in the meantime, one-note rants on here are just tedious.

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 19:26
Quote:
Trawling
FFS stop asking for the umpteenth reboot. You can't invent a culture, you have to build it.

Funny, Bristol are managing ok. Theyíll leave us in the dust like Exeter have in a year or two, if they havenít already.

Talk to any ex player and theyíll tell you how much of an utter shambles the club is. And itís not bitterness, they left BECAUSE itís in such a sorry state. Nobody has a good word to say.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
02/11/2019 19:29
I bet we beat the team we are up against next week!

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 19:32
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I bet we beat the team we are up against next week!

Aw bless.

Trawling
Trawling
02/11/2019 19:39
Well, Bristol are on their 4th? attempt to establish themselves in the Premiership. I didn't hear too many people lauding their previous efforts. They also spent a year playing much less demanding rugby in the Championship getting it right. Finally what do you mean by culture in their case? If it's about running ball from everywhere, I think you would have found lots of their own fans complaining of naivety last year and asking for a re-think: if you mean splashing big cash to get people in, that's ironically easier if you are under the cap in the first place; if you mean rebuilding your stadium, we know only too well the issues there and if you mean sticking a furry animal on the badge - good grief!

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 19:46
Quote:
Trawling
Well, Bristol are on their 4th? attempt to establish themselves in the Premiership. I didn't hear too many people lauding their previous efforts. They also spent a year playing much less demanding rugby in the Championship getting it right. Finally what do you mean by culture in their case? If it's about running ball from everywhere, I think you would have found lots of their own fans complaining of naivety last year and asking for a re-think: if you mean splashing big cash to get people in, that's ironically easier if you are under the cap in the first place; if you mean rebuilding your stadium, we know only too well the issues there and if you mean sticking a furry animal on the badge - good grief!

If you donít know what youíre talking about, donít post. Ask Attwood about Bristolís great club culture next time you see him.

And it doesnít matter what attempt theyíre on, point is since Lam, theyíre on the up. Their A side schooled ours last year on day 1 of the season and it set the tone.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 19:47
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Trawling
FFS stop asking for the umpteenth reboot. You can't invent a culture, you have to build it.

Talk to any ex player and theyíll tell you how much of an utter shambles the club is. And itís not bitterness, they left BECAUSE itís in such a sorry state. Nobody has a good word to say.

With respect most people who have left any organisation will criticise it and most currently in one will say things are fine.

We have had some good players re-sign contracts. I am not saying all is good, personally I think if the results were better the culture / off pitch criticisms would go away and that comes down to us needing a new HC. Hoops can take off the track suit with no face lost.

Trawling
Trawling
02/11/2019 20:03
OK it's official Ballsout owns rugby opinion and fact so everyone else can stop worrying. Tw$t!

And if last season is what you want to focus on, they ended up 9th and we were 6th.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:02:20:10:51 by Trawling.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
02/11/2019 20:09
If he takes the track suit off, what will he do? Put his pennyworth and tell a new coach what to do and who to select. No, he is and has been part of the no trophy aimless drifting club long enough and should know what is wrong and what needs correcting, if he knew how to fix it which, with his lack of coaching experience and being in a successful environment, is highly unlikely.

For example, how to stop crabbing across the field, eventually losing ground and either dropping the ball or knocking it on. Ball retention in contact. To get Bath players running onto the ball, not taking it standing still. These failings have been there for seasons now, so no excuse for not getting them fixed like other sides seem able to do. Also, all this after the longest preseason on record.

Sorry guys Mr H and the 'attack'? coach have to go and now or our Prem. status will be under even greater threat by Christmas. Without Prem. status we will probably kiss goodbye to our desperately needed new stadium as well.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Trawling
Trawling
02/11/2019 20:12
Wibble

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 20:21
BoB, you are intent on blaming Hooper who most agree is not a coach, I am proposing a head coach is appointed who can solve the faults you list. I prefer my constructive approach and no face is lost by the club, just a bigger dent in the owners bank balance.

Of course if the yardstick is beating Exeter then they might decide to give Hooper more time. If that is unpalatable then blame Exeter for losing to us, they must be rubbish.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
02/11/2019 20:31
Mr H is only part of the problem. The main one is the man or persons who appointed him to that position for which he is hugely unqualified, especially without suitably qualified and experienced lieutenants to support him. It is palpably not entirely his fault.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 20:34
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Mr H is only part of the problem. The main one is the man or persons who appointed him to that position for which he is hugely unqualified, especially without suitably qualified and experienced lieutenants to support him. It is palpably not entirely his fault.

Of course. If only we had an international forwards coach lined up to help out after the RWC..............?

Trawling
Trawling
02/11/2019 20:38
So as I understand it BoB and Bo's position is: any player who talks positively about anything to do with the club is some kind of stooge while players who have left have the gift of tongues. Is it just remotely possible that there may be some truth on both sides? Just saying. Oh and...wibble.

Long Term
Long Term
02/11/2019 20:42
BOB have you answered the question where did you watch the game? BO how can you say you don't have an agenda when you have no posts following a win but make repetitious critical posts following a loss? Your posts may well have some validity but they are repetitious, overstated and offer no solutions other than replace everything. With what!? I think you need to accept as supporters we have no influence if we want to be thought of as fans rather than customers. Yes we are all disappointed and frustrated at the disappointing results but we have made changes and it is early days(the club can't change the owner and his decisions) . Why watch Bath if you can't enjoy the wins and get so frustrated with the losses!!?

ballsout
ballsout
02/11/2019 20:53
What positives are there to say about a club regularly filled with big name players, thatís finished in the top 4 a grand total of 1 time in nine years?

There is a reason for this constant underperformance year after year and it isnít because weíre currently lacking a head coach in 2019/20.

Craig blunders by sticking his nose in. We lost Matson for that reason and he and Tarquin idiotically then appointed Hooper and Rock now. Thereís plenty more issues but thatís the top end problem.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/11/2019 21:04
There are some battles that cannot be won though. Better to influence and enlighten. Why would Hats come back if it was that bad?

Long Term
Long Term
02/11/2019 22:00
Quote:
ballsout
What positives are there to say about a club regularly filled with big name players, thatís finished in the top 4 a grand total of 1 time in nine years?
There is a reason for this constant underperformance year after year and it isnít because weíre currently lacking a head coach in 2019/20.

Craig blunders by sticking his nose in. We lost Matson for that reason and he and Tarquin idiotically then appointed Hooper and Rock now. Thereís plenty more issues but thatís the top end problem.

This is the club we support, we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not, ultimately that is all that is within your control. (To repeat we rely on Bruce financially to survive in the professional era like it or lump it!)

Ali1969
Ali1969
02/11/2019 23:29
"I would be absolutely fíing fuming if a team I played for, coached or supported booted the ball off the pitch while in possession and within a score for the sake of 1 league point - especially when we actually had that point as well as the ball."

Opt I am sorry but that lost point might be the difference between Qualifying for Champions Cup, Playoffs or even relegation who knows but history has shown just how important bonus points are especially come the end of the season.

I am a pragmatist and yes if there was an even chance to win a game but when you are camped deep inside your own half really!!!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
02/11/2019 23:39
Ali, how many times have Bath lost in the last moments of a match failing to hang on. Works both ways surely?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

TomReagan
TomReagan
02/11/2019 23:54
Wish Quins had that conservative mindset- just one example that comes to mind of a game we lost to a side last season that went through several phases to beat us in the last minute. I know the cynics/pragmatists will point out that we haven't scored a try from our own 22 since Chilcott, Dawe et al were playing but surely you have to believe it's possible and try?!

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
03/11/2019 07:14
I have an excellent idea. Since BoB has such intricate knowledge of the game, knows exactly what needs to be done & has considerable networking skills so he can tap in to a vast pool of disgruntled ex players, why donít we crowd fund him to get his coaching badge, although he sounds as if he already has it, and then tell the club that we have the ideal candidate for the vacant head coach role & one whatís more one who who wonít take any sort of cr....p from Mr H. At a stroke all criticism would vanish. Navanna!

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
03/11/2019 07:28
Getting back to the here & now. Our players are still falling down like nine pins with many of them long term or season ending. I know rugby is an attritional sport & injuries occur, particularly HIAís but with us it is continuous. Is it just as bad at other clubs? We now have about one centre left standing & you canít win matches with such depleted resources. Joseph will need resting no doubt & that is not enough. There has been no sign of any benefit from the presence of Dempsey but he never has the same players to work with. We surely need a couple of jokers to have any chance of progress.

opti
Optimist
03/11/2019 07:37
Quote:
Bath Hammer
I have an excellent idea. Since BoB has such intricate...!

Cue hilarious post from BoB referencing Old Prostates, beer, spas, Spurrell, Cooch and Dawesy.

Ali1969
Ali1969
03/11/2019 08:50
Shipwrecked I agree but it is the identification when the chance is in or not. You are quite right we have lost so many games at the death, often due to our error and not from the opposition creating, however we have all seen teams kick out the ball when they realise there is no chance of the miracle win and don't want to lose the LBP, this is down to leadership and on field decision making. Basically you know if things have been clicking but our confidence in these situations coupled with our backline would suggest leave with something.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
03/11/2019 09:20
I agree with Ali. We need every point we can muster now, especially as the so called lesser teams have improved and regretfully we patently have not!

It might be boring but for those of us who witnessed our near demise until Elvis scored that try, and had to take on the pragmatism of the Connolly years, we did improve and started to win games regularly. Trouble is we have never consistently kicked on from there.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

P G Tips
P G Tips
03/11/2019 09:46
Quote:
Bathovalballer
take on the pragmatism of the Connolly years,

Careful BOB! Connolly & his sidekick Foley got rid of Catt, Tindall, Balshaw, Lyle & Regan- many of whom came back to hurt us in the colours of their new clubs!

PG

ballsout
ballsout
03/11/2019 10:07
I was hoping they'd kick it out and salvage the bonus point. You don't go from scoring 0 backs tries in 240 minutes of rugby to running one in from your own 22 in the last play of the game when defences are at their sharpest. It was painfully obvious we'd give away a penalty, but I was just hoping for a knock on.

What was more annoying more was our (typical and bizarrely longstanding) problem of not being able to hold on to or control the ball. We were in possession on half way with literally ten seconds to go till half-time, we should have slowed each carry down but no, lost the ball with time almost up. Scrum. Penalty to them. Kick to corner, try under the posts. Poor.

TomReagan
TomReagan
03/11/2019 10:21
Agree with much of that BO, particularly the management of the last seconds of the first half. As to going for a try, you work a penalty and make 40 yards and there's a chance, even given our limited style of rugby. I just think that if the roles were reversed I'd love to see the opposition kick the ball out and concede the win, and you do what the opposition doesn't want you to do. It only needs to come off one time in three and you're in profit, but if I had been there I'd no doubt have been watching it with the fatalistic expectation that we'd mess up somehow!

Barnoid
Barnoid
03/11/2019 10:35
Yes, yes, yes. Everything is awful. Bulldoze the Rec and put the coaching and management in stocks etc.

Still, credit where itís due to Ollie Fox who, at short notice, was promoted from the bench to make his Premiership debut, and ended up playing the full 80 mins up against Robson whoís an experienced and pretty classy operator at 9.

By no means perfect and things to work on but he didnít look out of his depth and will hopefully push Chudders and Cookie for more starts this season.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
03/11/2019 12:42
Agree Barnoid. If anything good came out of another disappointing defeat to an underwhelming Wasps side, was young Fox's showing. Showed lots of guts and seems to possess a descent fast pass. Now all we have to do is get people running onto it!

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
03/11/2019 15:17
He was really good. Mike Williams, Ewells and Obano looked decent as well. For all the star names in the Wasps backline I thought they were going to be better but they still won and kept us neutered in attack for much of the game.

Had we not tried for the miracle win and kicked the ball out we would not be bottom of the Premiership this weekend. I know we need to show ambition but it was clearly not on. If we do continue to be at the wrong end of the table, we are going to need more pragmatism.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 15:52
Quote:
Ali1969
Shipwrecked I agree but it is the identification when the chance is in or not. You are quite right we have lost so many games at the death, often due to our error and not from the opposition creating, however we have all seen teams kick out the ball when they realise there is no chance of the miracle win and don't want to lose the LBP, this is down to leadership and on field decision making. Basically you know if things have been clicking but our confidence in these situations coupled with our backline would suggest leave with something.

Decent point I guess I'm 50:50 on this one, but I prefer a team ethic that says go for it. Wasps had a choice go for their own try bonus point or prevent us getting one. Pretty negative to go for the latter in my view I would hope if we were in the same situation we would go for the try bonus point. I prefer to be positive.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
03/11/2019 16:06
Quote:
ken_jnr
For all the star names in the Wasps backline I thought they were going to be better but they still won and kept us neutered in attack for much of the game.

Wasps are pretty poor so far this year, that was their first win, which makes leaving with 0 points even worse.

Bristol Welsh
Bristol Welsh
03/11/2019 16:20
Just to say Sale had a penalty in the last seconds against us in their 22 (well actually their 5m line). Did they think, I know, lets kick it 30 meters and get a line out and try and win the game (they were 6 points behind), no they thought, @#$%& weather, chances are they we may give away possession/penalty and end up with nothing. They kicked it dead. Got a point (so only a 3 point difference between us and them). It means they were thinking of the season ahead, long term. Just how I expect them to be coached - Diamond is a bundle of entertainment after all. You ended up with nothing. Poor coaching, poor planning, poor execution. It may be that over the season it doesn't matter, but then again, why take the chance? Its not as if any of us is going to win the league, but 1 point can make a big difference further down the table (maybe a playoff spot, top European position or maybe relegation).

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 16:35
Quote:
Bristol Welsh
Poor coaching, poor planning, poor execution. It may be that over the season it doesn't matter, but then again, why take the chance?

So are you saying that is the Bristol way of approaching the game, safety first.
If so I suggest you talk to your coach, how many points have Bristol thrown away by running it from suicidal positions then?
Is that equally "Poor coaching, poor planning, poor execution?"

Nothing wrong in having a go! Ask Pat Lam.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Ali1969
Ali1969
03/11/2019 16:39
Shipwrecked totally with you I would always like to be positive, but given our fragility for me it was a no brainer. I have a feeling Wasps feel we may be scrapping it out with us for something and to deny us a point was worth more to them than getting an extra try bonus point.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03/11/2019 16:42
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnít. Against Exe the week before they were positive and played out for the win. In general terms Iím another in the keep it positive camp tbh (not that I was at the Wasps game so can comment on the actual field position or anything in this case).

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 16:43
Quote:
Ali1969
Shipwrecked totally with you I would always like to be positive, but given our fragility for me it was a no brainer. I have a feeling Wasps feel we may be scrapping it out with us for something and to deny us a point was worth more to them than getting an extra try bonus point.

Don't worry Ali, Sarries are going to be on minus points soon if BoB is right. Have faith, post WC the best is yet to come..........I hope!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03/11/2019 16:51
Sarries will still stay up even with -35 (would have put them 10th last season). As worrying for them is that there is talk of them having a reduced cap for a season or more.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
03/11/2019 16:55
Quote:
Long Term
we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not

This is possibly the most sensible comment in this thread. It's clear from what we've seen to date this season that Hooper is guiding Bath towards the championship, so all we can do is decide whether to watch it happen or not.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03/11/2019 16:57
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Long Term
we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not

This is possibly the most sensible comment in this thread. It's clear from what we've seen to date this season that Hooper is guiding Bath towards the championship, so all we can do is decide whether to watch it happen or not.

I will happily make a bet with you - £50 to the charity of the others choice at the end of the season. If Bath go down I donate to yours, if they stay up you donate to mine. Are you game?

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
03/11/2019 17:03
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Long Term
we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not

This is possibly the most sensible comment in this thread. It's clear from what we've seen to date this season that Hooper is guiding Bath towards the championship, so all we can do is decide whether to watch it happen or not.

I will happily make a bet with you - £50 to the charity of the others choice at the end of the season. If Bath go down I donate to yours, if they stay up you donate to mine. Are you game?

I've already placed a £1k bet on it happening.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 17:03
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Long Term
we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not

This is possibly the most sensible comment in this thread. It's clear from what we've seen to date this season that Hooper is guiding Bath towards the championship, so all we can do is decide whether to watch it happen or not.

For the umpteenth time, how can you criticise a coaching regime when it is not even in place, let alone had time to effect change? You do realise Hatley is not in place and our backs have been in Japan?
Time to criticise is when Hately has been in place for 4-6 games with a full set of backs.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
03/11/2019 17:07
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Long Term
we have as supporters no real influence therefore I suggest all you can do as you are in such turmoil is to decide whether to support the club or not

This is possibly the most sensible comment in this thread. It's clear from what we've seen to date this season that Hooper is guiding Bath towards the championship, so all we can do is decide whether to watch it happen or not.

For the umpteenth time, how can you criticise a coaching regime when it is not even in place, let alone had time to effect change? You do realise Hatley is not in place and our backs have been in Japan?
Time to criticise is when Hately has been in place for 4-6 games with a full set of backs.

I respect Hatley a lot and welcome his return, but he's not the messiah. Is he going to fix the attack and poor decision making as well? So far only Charteris is showing any competence.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 17:15
Fair comment, but we are talking a big big injection of coaching and talent about to return, talk of the Championship is unrealistic. The games this season have all been with almost scratch sides, we had our 4th 9 out yesterday and a bug in the week.
We are in desperate need of a bit of confidence but I don't see a lack of effort, misdirected effort perhaps.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
03/11/2019 17:17
If the RWC final showed us anything it is that you can't have an effective attack without good ball from the forwards so Hatley is an important piece of the jigsaw.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
03/11/2019 17:26
Agree BB, we seem to forget we are missing a full international back row in Flouw, Underhill and Faletau and a back division of Watson, Joseph, McConnochie, and Cockanasiga. Thats half a team any one of which can change a game.
If Hooper, Charteris and Hately can't make those players work the I would call for a change too.

I would still like to see a defence coach though.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
04/11/2019 11:52
People are putting a lot of faith in players returning to turn things around. Hopefully due to their individual one-off talents, rather than how they fit into a broken system. We've had these players for years and they haven't made us top 4 contenders. It's not about the individuals or the name on the team sheet.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
04/11/2019 12:10
Quote:
ballsout
People are putting a lot of faith in players returning to turn things around. Hopefully due to their individual one-off talents, rather than how they fit into a broken system. We've had these players for years and they haven't made us top 4 contenders. It's not about the individuals or the name on the team sheet.

I agree with your point but it has to be a positive to some degree. Those involved in the final from both sides will come back from an elite level with good habits. If Flo assumes his international career is nearly over at 34 why would he not work well back at Bath to help form the new coaching setup? The only thing preventing that would be a bad culture blocking such positive contributions.

jameswood14
Woodpecker
04/11/2019 13:04
Im going to the glos bath game on 4th Jan - with Glos supporting friends, I'm hoping that this turn around has happened by then.

warrenball
warrenball
04/11/2019 14:10
I agree we cannot take too much from the first three games, but regardless of the returning players we will still have the well known problems at 9, 10 and centre, together with the anticipated coaching dilemma. Remember the returning players are the ones we will lose again for the 6N so we cannot rely on them for a miracle transformation.

The weather also has not been kind so far, but once it dries up I hope the team at least try to play a more expansive game. Not sure if it is a reaction to watching some good rugby at the WC but so far I have been completely underwhelmed by the premiership.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/11/2019 14:16
Agreed - I don't think that we will ever get an expansive game with RP at 10 and JR at 12 unfortunately.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
04/11/2019 14:35
We need something extra in midfield to be sure, given how well Josh Adams went looking for work in the WC and how Eddie used Joe C I'd like to see him coming in off his wing more often and getting us over the gain line.
The problem with JR and RP is they have both lost a lot of pace.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
04/11/2019 14:48
As they say if RP and JR are the answer.........we are asking the wrong question!

jameswood14
Woodpecker
04/11/2019 14:51
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
As they say if RP and JR are the answer.........we are asking the wrong question!

wrong question or wrong year.

Hymenoptera
Hymenoptera
04/11/2019 15:36
I thought RP was excellent against Wasps, some of his kicking to touch from hand was exceptional.

opti
Optimist
04/11/2019 16:00
Didn't see the Wasps game, but his kicking against Exeter was excellent in that game.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/11/2019 16:05
Iím not sure that anyone has said that RP canít kick. He is a very good tactical kicker. Whether RP and JR get a back line moving (and make the most of the England returnees) is the concern.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
BathSalmon
04/11/2019 20:31
Maybe it's time to see what De Glanville can offer at 10? If hes good enough, then hes old enough!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
04/11/2019 21:16
Not sure he is fit, its a decent suggestion but I think he needs a few experienced backs around him, to throw him into a backline that is already creaking could go seriously wrong.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
04/11/2019 21:23
Quote:
BathMatt53
Iím not sure that anyone has said that RP canít kick. He is a very good tactical kicker. Whether RP and JR get a back line moving (and make the most of the England returnees) is the concern.

Then maybe we should play to his strengths. A 9 with a fast pass to give him time (I thought Ollie Fox did well) and kick for position. Then use the forwards to strangle the oppo into a mistake. Take the 3. Repeat. Sound familiar at all? SA, Sarries, Exeter, Leicester in their pomp...

Dull? - yes, boring? - unquestionably, winning strategy? - recent evidence strongly suggests so.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/11/2019 21:28
Best get the p45s sorted for the returning England backs then...oh and can I have a refund on my season ticket?!

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05/11/2019 01:20
Quote:
BathMatt53
Best get the p45s sorted for the returning England backs then...oh and can I have a refund on my season ticket?!

Trouble is, playing outside RP and JR, they are not going to get the ball in any space. In that case, it doesn't matter how good you are or how fast your feet, gravity always wins.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
05/11/2019 09:26
The whole point of having a 12 like JR is that it creates space for the likes of JJ, Coka, AW and RM, either by holding defences or by setting up quick ball. Not that we've really seen it happen in practise, but I know Todd wanted a carrying 12 for this purpose, as he believed it was the way to get the best out of our back 3.

On paper, our first choice backline is top class, and combining JR and JJ makes sense to me. The question for me, is JR still up to it and can Dempsey coach the best out of them? On the evidence of this season, JR isn't going to let anyone down but Dempsey's influence is still up for debate. If by the season end he hasn't got some tries out of our backs then he's not up to it.

MESSAGES->author
hemington
05/11/2019 09:42
Dempsey didn't seem to have much trouble getting tries when coaching at Leinster.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/11/2019 09:59
Quote:
hemington
Dempsey didn't seem to have much trouble getting tries when coaching at Leinster.

Which is why it is all the more confusing / annoying.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05/11/2019 10:04
That's true, however JR needs an element of threat inside, RP doesn't offer that neither do our 9's at the moment. Add to that he doesn't seem to vary his running lines or offload. I'm sure we can cope with a predictable 12 more easily than we can predictable half backs.

Look how Reinach holds the defense with his speed and interceptions, (he is out of contract with Saints soon, though expected to go to Montpellier). We have to be see how the returnees get on and get the pack to establish their promised dominance.
I also think that Underhill will change the dynamic for the pack, if he can catch their backs behind the gain line and propel them backwards as he did in Japan that would open up the game for Roko. Joe C, Rory, JJ and Watson.

This is where we get to find out if Hooper's team can put the bits of the puzzle together. If as you say things haven't changed on the try front despite having our key players back then we have a big problem!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
05/11/2019 11:55
Totally agree about our half-backs SW. Chudley is still pre-programmed to box-kick, and outside him Priestland just doesn't have that 'put some pace on it' mentality. He seems happy to let the game slow down around 9. Then when it comes to him, it's either drop back and kick, or shovel it flat. When was the last time anyone saw either of them make a break that actually led to genuine panic in the defence?

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
05/11/2019 12:15
I agree, to an extent, but Priestland is an international 10 who has played with Roberts for many years. They could have me playing 9 and they should still be able to get something out of the internationals outside them. I still wonder whether Cook might be the one who steps up and delivers on his promise, although I wouldn't be willing to bet on it.

Having said the above, I have dreams where Cipriani is wearing our 10 jersey...

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05/11/2019 12:45
Quote:
dr.bath1865
I agree, to an extent, but Priestland is an international 10 who has played with Roberts for many years. They could have me playing 9 and they should still be able to get something out of the internationals outside them. I still wonder whether Cook might be the one who steps up and delivers on his promise, although I wouldn't be willing to bet on it.
Having said the above, I have dreams where Cipriani is wearing our 10 jersey...

...but Priestland was an international 10 who has played with Roberts for many years.... and they had the likes of Rhys Webb at 9 threatening round the fringes, you are right though in his international career he did 'have a go'. Haven't seen it for a wile at the Rec.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

ballsout
ballsout
05/11/2019 14:01
I bet London Irish or Bristol would get more out of Chudley-Priestland-Roberts than we do.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05/11/2019 14:25
Really, what can you coach to a 31 year old, a 32 year old and a 32 year old? They are close to becoming coaches rather than being coached!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

opti
Optimist
05/11/2019 14:44
Quote:
ballsout
I bet London Irish or Bristol would get more out of Chudley-Priestland-Roberts than we do.

Possibly one of them at any one time. Not sure about all 3 together.

I wonder if other clubs could get more out of Cook, Burns, Willison - individually and/or in combination - than we have managed. I would hope so - because we've squeezed the square root of f-all out of what most people would regard as three decent talents.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05/11/2019 14:53
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
I bet London Irish or Bristol would get more out of Chudley-Priestland-Roberts than we do.

Possibly one of them at any one time. Not sure about all 3 together.

I wonder if other clubs could get more out of Cook, Burns, Willison - individually and/or in combination - than we have managed. I would hope so - because we've squeezed the square root of f-all out of what most people would regard as three decent talents.

You would be lucky to get either of the combinations to play 3-4 games in a row due to injuries/concussion! Younger players are a little less susceptible to injury.

Even Willison is 31.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
05/11/2019 14:57
I'm guessing the point being made is that players are not improved by the coaching at Bath and the majority just stagnate at best.

ballsout
ballsout
05/11/2019 15:20
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
I bet London Irish or Bristol would get more out of Chudley-Priestland-Roberts than we do.

Possibly one of them at any one time. Not sure about all 3 together.

I wonder if other clubs could get more out of Cook, Burns, Willison - individually and/or in combination - than we have managed. I would hope so - because we've squeezed the square root of f-all out of what most people would regard as three decent talents.

Pretty much any other club would get more out of all our players than we do, that much has been obvious for years. My point was in relation to people saying we need a big name 9, 10 and 12. What for? So they can underperform like everyone else at Bath?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/11/2019 15:39
Doesn't need to be a big name, Faf wasn't. Just has to be someone who is more dynamic than our current 9, 10 and 12. Arguably that is Cook, Burns and someone like Wright, to be fair.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
hemington
05/11/2019 15:39
me thinks some supporters underperform as well

JFPC
JFPC
05/11/2019 16:33
Quote:
ballsout

Pretty much any other club would get more out of all our players than we do, that much has been obvious for years. My point was in relation to people saying we need a big name 9, 10 and 12. What for? So they can underperform like everyone else at Bath?

If any other club would get more out of any player how come Bath had so many players at the world cup? If what you say is true then they wouldn't have been playing well enough to even be considered.

Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
05/11/2019 17:00
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Optimist
Quote:
ballsout
I bet London Irish or Bristol would get more out of Chudley-Priestland-Roberts than we do.

Possibly one of them at any one time. Not sure about all 3 together.

I wonder if other clubs could get more out of Cook, Burns, Willison - individually and/or in combination - than we have managed. I would hope so - because we've squeezed the square root of f-all out of what most people would regard as three decent talents.

Pretty much any other club would get more out of all our players than we do, that much has been obvious for years. My point was in relation to people saying we need a big name 9, 10 and 12. What for? So they can underperform like everyone else at Bath?

We don't need a big name, but we do need a younger name at 10. RP and JR learnt their trade early Gatland, 10's like Cips and George Ford play a flatter, faster game. Its incredibly hard to relearn the 10 position if your instinct is to play deeper and let your 12 smash it up.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05/11/2019 17:03
Sorry to go back to the game but why was the last penalty awarded? Bath had 2 clear out players at the ruck, the 2 Wasps players were off their feet in good time. The highlights don't include the explanation.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
05/11/2019 19:17
We still should have kicked the ball out for a point. Even Mr H admitted that in his interview. We need points from every game like Bristol last season and Irish are aiming for just to stay up.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
10/11/2019 16:55
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I bet we beat the team we are up against next week!

Aw bless.


Clearly Ballsout the Bath Team, the crowd at the Rec.....me included, were indeed blessed.

You on the other hand are obviously not as you seem to have gone missingthumbs up

gaz59
gaz59
10/11/2019 18:53
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
I bet we beat the team we are up against next week!

Aw bless.


Clearly Ballsout the Bath Team, the crowd at the Rec.....me included, were indeed blessed.

You on the other hand are obviously not as you seem to have gone missingthumbs up

Take a bow BFJ, great call

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
10/11/2019 19:11
Bath win and BO & BoB go MIA, what a surprise?!
Be nice if they went permanently MIA.

MESSAGES->author
hemington
10/11/2019 21:45
They must have found a nice thistle patch somewhere.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
11/11/2019 12:37
Mutual flagellation, perhaps?

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: of 2
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net