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SHOWDOWN ON SEVERN: GLOUCESTER v BATH


Willison: variety?

By P G Tips
January 2 2020

Bath face a showdown on the Severn in their Premiership tie against Gloucester at Kingsholm on Saturday. The Cherry and Whites, third in the table, are firm favourites with the bookies at 2/5, although fifth placed Bath have won one more match. It seems that Bath’s poor away record of recent seasons and sparse collection of bonus points has swayed the odds in the home team’s favour. With a passionate crowd spurring them on, Gloucester will feel confident of victory    

Derby matches are usually tense, close affairs that often pay scant respect to league position or form. This weekend the fascinating context is that four of the top five are West Country teams. Bath, though prop up that quartet from fifth position and will be desperate for some local bragging rights after a humbling season opener against Bristol. The last encounter between these teams saw Bath claw back a 24 point deficit in the Premiership Cup to win by 2 points. Gloucester’s coaches will also be aware that Kingsholm has been a happy hunting ground for Blue, Black and White in the Premiership in recent years – last season’s Cherry and White victory their first home win against Bath for six seasons.

 

Before Bath can entertain dreams of another odds defying triumph, they must find a way to deal with a sturdy and combative Gloucester pack. The possible absence of Ben Morgan looks likely to be more than compensated by the return of Jake Polledri. Behind the scrum too, Gloucester field plenty of firepower, Ollie Thorley a possible returnee to challenge Louis Rees- Zammit as the dangerous finisher. Bath must close down Danny Cipriani and prevent him pulling the strings or he will get Atkinson and Harris over the gainline at will. Stopping them will be key to Bath’s chances, so supporters will hope for more of the grit and determination that marked the wins over Irish and Sale.

 

To do that will need the strongest available back row and the news is good about Underhill, who I hope will join Faletau and Louw. Gloucester have been penalised heavily at the breakdown for holding on, so that trio could be crucial to swing the game in Bath’s favour. There could be returns too for Batty and Willison, one to add experience off the bench, the other to provide some respite for Jamie Roberts and a touch of variation in midfield.

 

The Shedheads will seize upon any Bath mistake with their traditional “eeyore!” chant. Bath, having won their last two Premiership matches after a lean spell, will want to convert the “eeyores” among their own followers. It will be a tough ask, but as recent history shows, far from impossible. Derbies can be won by heart over pedigree. Some mulish obstinacy would be very welcome. Come On You Bath!

 

Possible Teams:

Bath:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, McNally, Stooke, Louw (Capt.), Underhill, Faletau. Chudley, Priestland. Watson, Willison, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Homer

Replacements: Boyce, Walker, Judge, Garvey, Ellis. Cook, Burns, Brew.

Gloucester:
Hohneck, Marais, Ford-Robinson, Craig, Mostert, Ludlow, Polledri, Ackermann. Heinz, Cipriani. Rees-Zammitt, Atkinson, Harris, Thorley. Marshall.

Replacements: Gleave, Seville, Balmian, Grobler, Clarke. Simpson, Twelvetrees, Banahan.

 

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SHOWDOWN ON SEVERN: GLOUCESTER v BATH. TEAM NOW UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 02/01/2020 13:44
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
02/01/2020 13:44
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:07:18:17:54 by P G Tips.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
02/01/2020 14:21
My first match of the season, going with a bunch of Glos fans, fingers crossed!

bardofavon
bardofavon
02/01/2020 15:18
dear pg tips
why dont you hold these weekly match previews back 24 hours, then you would be able to know what the two teams are with certainty. that then may help you to make a more accurate assessment.

P G Tips
P G Tips
02/01/2020 15:24
bardofavon

I usually post at least 3 days ahead to give readers anticipation of the fixture. Also I am not always available to spend the time writing the piece on the day of team announcement.

If your reference to "a more accurate assessment." refers to the teamsheet, that is one thing - but not the whole point of the article. If you refer to the analysis of the likely match play and outcome, that of course is open to opinion.

PG

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
02/01/2020 15:34
Quote:
P G Tips
bardofavon
I usually post at least 3 days ahead to give readers anticipation of the fixture. Also I am not always available to spend the time writing the piece on the day of team announcement.

If your reference to "a more accurate assessment." refers to the teamsheet, that is one thing - but not the whole point of the article. If you refer to the analysis of the likely match play and outcome, that of course is open to opinion.

PG

If you did it after it would be amazingly accurate

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
02/01/2020 15:40
Sir for Glaws - Tom Foley 72nd Premiership game. Good , fair or grim ? (Sm102)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

P G Tips
P G Tips
02/01/2020 15:47
He did Bath no favours at Ashton Gate!

P G Tips



Levi Davis: my adopted Player, 2019-20.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/01/2020 15:50
All the refs are good quality these days, don’t really care which one we have tbh.

Good review PGT, whetted my appetite nicely and I also enjoy the pre announcement speculation.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
02/01/2020 15:56
Not many weaknesses in the suggested Bath team if all are fit. Maybe the bench front row is looking a bit undercooked but compared to earlier in the season we have a stronger lineup.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/01/2020 16:05
I’m surprised Levi Douglas hasn’t been on the bench instead of Garvey to cover 2nd row and 6...brings a bit more mobility and aggression IMO. Would like to see him appear in this game given the venue.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
02/01/2020 17:33
I would be happy with a LBP or two on Saturday tbh and a return of 10/11 pts from this block of three games would be great given our form prior to the LI/Sale fixtures. I hope we give it a good go...

Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

gaz59
gaz59
02/01/2020 18:23
Can only see Glaws being on top at scrum so we had better win the breakdown battles with Rhys to continue with the boom clearances and keep his current goal kicking form but their bench, especially with Simpson looks stronger [assuming that is what takes the field] so yes would be happy with lbp

Great review PGT

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/01/2020 18:54
Glos have had dodgy scrum (Albeit against Sarries) and lineout (albeit against Toulouse) performances this year, with RR and Morgan etc out I can’t see why it would necessarily be better than the Bath scrum?

Gloucester will obviously be favourites at home but it’s their backs that I am most concerned about as they are scoring for fun at the moment (but also conceding).

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Saint dolph
Saint dolph
03/01/2020 00:27
I think bath will have the upper hand in the scrum . You guys destroyed our scrum (saints fan) and I felt we edged Gloucester

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
03/01/2020 01:18
I feel we played at our highest level against Sale & just edged a win at home. I will be happy with a hard fought bonus point at Gloucester. We can we it but I feel a lot will have to go our way for it to happen

opti
Optimist
03/01/2020 08:12
Our 3 x home wins this season have been like ‘away’ wins by a good side - gritty but limited, chiselled out and clung on to - based on a big pack, a kicking 10 and fierce defence. Our 3 x away games have been much looser. On that record it’s hard to see a win, but .... the confidence should be coming back and the teamsheet should look pretty spectacular on paper. It’s yet another crossroads and yet another completely unpredictable game. Could be anything from 10-12 to 35-25. Gawd knows but will be extremely compelling watching.

warrenball
warrenball
03/01/2020 08:55
Weather will play a part in it, if it is wet and windy that must favour us, I think we would have far more trouble trying to take them on in dry, quiet conditions, but whatever the weather it will be a good result if we get anything out of this game.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
03/01/2020 09:13
I am daring to hope(Sm124)

It is games like this away from home that will define this team/squad

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
03/01/2020 09:45
Quote:
Optimist
Our 3 x home wins this season have been like ‘away’ wins by a good side - gritty but limited, chiselled out and clung on to - based on a big pack, a kicking 10 and fierce defence. Our 3 x away games have been much looser.

Spot on Optimist.

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
03/01/2020 10:28
I’ve no idea what will happen, but I hope we go all out with our team selection and then rotate next week in Europe.

On paper, our XXIII should look pretty awesome, given the return to fitness and form of our big names. A back row of SU, FL and TF and a back 3 of AW, SR/RMc, TH should challenge whoever we play.

We’ve also done well at Glos in the past few years. We should’ve won last season, having completely dominated the first half, and we hammered them there the year before. Yes, they’re a better side now but they’ve likely got a couple more injuries than us and haven’t been firing recently. I just hope Cipriani has one of his quiet days and we get on top at the set piece.

It’ll be close but I’m cautiously optimistic.

opti
Optimist
03/01/2020 10:46
I'm starting to think that McConnochie has benefited somewhat by being quicker to adapt to 15s than was expected. When you're expected to be 'talented but raw' and you turn out to be 'pretty good actually', then the impression is that you're 'outstanding' when in fact you're 'pretty good actually'. In the end, his World Cup selection has done him no favours at all. Certainly hope to have those words stuffed down my throat, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of Homer or Roko ... for Bath or for England.

P G Tips
P G Tips
03/01/2020 12:03
Team up:

BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE GLOUCESTER RUGBY:

15. Tom Homer

14. Semesa Rokoduguni

13. Jonathan Joseph

12. Jamie Roberts

11. Anthony Watson

10. Rhys Priestland

9. Chris Cook

1. Beno Obano

2. Tom Dunn

3. Will Stuart

4. Josh McNally

5. Elliott Stooke

6. Francois Louw (C)

7. Sam Underhill

8. Taulupe Faletau

Replacements

16. Jack Walker, 17. Lewis Boyce, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Mike Williams, 20. Tom Ellis, 21. Ollie Fox, 22. Freddie Burns, 23. Aled Brew

P G Tips



Levi Davis: my adopted Player, 2019-20.

opti
Optimist
03/01/2020 12:05
And Glos:

Gloucester Rugby:

Jason Woodward; 14. Tom Marshall, 13. Chris Harris, 12. Billy Twelvetrees, 11. Ollie Thorley; 10. Danny Cipriani, 9. Willi Heinz (capt); 1. Josh Hohneck, 2. Franco Marais, 3. Fraser Balmain; 4. Alex Craig, 5. Franco Mostert; 6. Freddie Clarke, 7. Jake Polledri, 8. Ruan Ackermann


Replacements:

Todd Gleave, 17. Alex Seville, 18. Ciaran Knight, 19. Gerbrandt Grobler, 20. Lewis Ludlow, 21. Joe Simpson, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Louis Rees-Zammit

MESSAGES->author
hasta
03/01/2020 12:10
ARE YOU READY FOR FALLOUWHILL?!

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
03/01/2020 12:25
Fess up, who broke Chudleigh ? Pretty much our stongest side otherwise.

Bath by 2, looking forward to a day out in beautiful Gloucester.

JFPC
JFPC
03/01/2020 12:25
Quote:
hasta
ARE YOU READY FOR FALLOUWHILL?!

I think we've all been ready for about two years!

Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley.

fat lock
fat lock
03/01/2020 12:27
Like the look of that.

How often have we had the dream back row playing together?
Big game for Ollie Fox

Rokobilly
Rokobilly
03/01/2020 12:29
That's about as strong a team as we have put out in last 3 years. We have a good record up the road too. Team should travel with confidence. Bath by 8.

noidea
noidea
03/01/2020 12:33
Quote:
hasta
ARE YOU READY FOR FALLOUWHILL?!
Very excited actually

Susanne
Susanne
03/01/2020 12:34
Quote:
hasta
ARE YOU READY FOR FALLOUWHILL?!

Most definitely - almost sorry not to be going, that's going to be tasty smiling smiley

warrenball
warrenball
03/01/2020 12:50
Also a very strong team put out by Glos, will be difficult stopping their back line . Not confident, just hopeful.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03/01/2020 12:54
As good as team for Bath that I have seen in a long while. Some notable omissions for Glos through injury or rotation. Zammit (on bench), Banners, RR, Morgan and the big one for me, Atkinson who has been excellent this year.

The back row battle is going to be mouth watering.

COYB!!

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
03/01/2020 13:37
Happy with our team, a glance at Shedweb suggests they recognise our dream back row should have an edge.

If I was playing for Glos (horror) I would look to target Cook with a view to getting Fox on early. A chance Freddie might try too hard if he comes on. Can't see any other weakness on paper, keeping our heads straight with all that eyeoor rubbish will be key, but we should have enough experience to deal with that.

Glos fans think their bench front row is also a bit lightweight so that matches ours probably.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
03/01/2020 13:43
Not being 20+ to nil down after the first quarter would be an improvement on last years start at least.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
03/01/2020 13:48
A truly world class backrow. £10 on at 15/8.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
03/01/2020 15:29
I have seen Ollie Fox play this season and was well impressed with him. If he does get some game time tomorrow he won't let us down and if he and FB have to conjure a score to win it in the last 5-10 mins I can see it happening. Heart says Bath, head says Glaws but only a score in it so could go either way. It's gonna be tasty...

Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:03:21:50:03 by Clarkey3k.

gaz59
gaz59
03/01/2020 16:30
Is there a classier back row in NH club rugby? Leinster inevitably but any other club with one as good as ours starting out against Glaws?

John Tee
John Tee
03/01/2020 16:39
Looking forward to this.
Glaws have a good defence and the back row looks good carrying the ball.
Line out had a few wobbles but was soiid last game.
I think this will come down to the last 20 whereby Glaws can unleash Louis RZ and Simpson so you dont need tired legs then.

Bath can have a lot of confidence as that back row and backline looks very good. Good to see Watson wasn't long term injured a few weeks back.

Parity up front...??

Glaws to miss Atkinson and playmaker but 36 is good there too and can kick.

If Cips get ball, their backs can score from anywhere anytime.
Woodward and Thorley back and Harris is hitting his straps

Bath have two jackals that Glaws need to deal with, for sure.

Could be a potentially great game if the weather is kind...

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
03/01/2020 17:53
As mentioned on many threads, no 10 looks good on the back foot. If our back row can get on top it will pull in support to the Glos side of the rucks that would otherwise be passing options for Cipriani. If he starts kicking we have class backs to counter attack.

dannyf2
dannyf2
03/01/2020 20:04
No opposition wouldn't sit up and take notice of that team sheet - especially on a run of a couple of good wins. The physicality to come off the bench is formidable too. I say we go to beat them up - not the usual mindset before Gloucester. Bath by 8

gaz59
gaz59
03/01/2020 21:43
Will Underhill be less of a jackal and under direction to nail Cipriani, first time and every time? Leave the jackaling to Louw

Cut Cipriani down and he will either get petulant and do something stupid and/or try the miracle pass and that will open opportunities on the counter attack

Whatever, you look at those two line ups and BT have pulled a new year's cracker

Steve_M
Steve_M
04/01/2020 05:16
Quote:
BathMatt53
Gloucester will obviously be favourites at home but it’s their backs that I am most concerned about as they are scoring for fun at the moment (but also conceding).

Gloucs scored 21 tries, conceded 9; the best record in the league so far. If Bath are to win this it will be behind a dominant pack. Gloucs have 5 front rowers out and three young lads to come on as replacements later in the game.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/01/2020 07:57
Quote:
Steve_M
Quote:
BathMatt53
Gloucester will obviously be favourites at home but it’s their backs that I am most concerned about as they are scoring for fun at the moment (but also conceding).

Gloucs scored 21 tries, conceded 9; the best record in the league so far. If Bath are to win this it will be behind a dominant pack. Gloucs have 5 front rowers out and three young lads to come on as replacements later in the game.

I think that those stats (whilst obvs true) are a bit skewed by them having played Tigers, the weakest Sarries etc. in the league during the RWC and then a very poor Worcs. They have conceded quite a few in the last couple of months against Connaught, Quins, Montp and of course last week at Saints. Their ability to score tries is pretty consistent irrespective of the opponent mind you, I think that Bath will need to score over 25 (possibly over 30 at Kingsholm) to win.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Montyuk
Montyuk
04/01/2020 15:42
Cagey first half... 7-9

Adopted player 2019/20: Tom Ellis

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
04/01/2020 15:44
HT

A couple of pantomime moments from DC and RP in failing to find touch!!

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
04/01/2020 15:52
Watching without commentary, looked like the Mostert high swinging arm should have been a yellow card?

Bath look better with structured play, Glos look better on the break.

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
04/01/2020 15:53
67% possession 71% territory. We should be miles ahead! #coyb

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
04/01/2020 15:54
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Watching without commentary, looked like the Mostert high swinging arm should have been a yellow card?
Bath look better with structured play, Glos look better on the break.

Austin said it was harsh!

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 15:57
Feels like Bath just need to keep doing what they are doing. Glos seem to be relying on a moment of genius, not beyond them tbf

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/01/2020 16:02
Some of Cooks long passes have been awful - putting the back line under real pressure. Glos have no right to be ahead in this game bar poor Bath execution.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:04:16:04:27 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:05
FFS Glos score due to compound errors from Bath. All stemming from an attavking move that had obviously broken down

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
04/01/2020 16:08
At least DC doesn't have his kicking boots, and RP levels scores with a penaalty

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
04/01/2020 16:13
Execution by both teams is terrible tbh.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Montyuk
Montyuk
04/01/2020 16:17
Oh dear...

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 16:18
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
FFS Glos score due to compound errors from Bath. All stemming from an attavking move that had obviously broken down

And again !,,

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:20
Ridiculous how often we shoot ourselves in the foot. Must be about 7 or 8 really dozy penalties that just hand Glos the initiative

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:22
Why on earth have Bath just given up?

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 16:23
Quote:
Montyuk
Oh dear...
And Again !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
hasta
04/01/2020 16:24
This is so infuriating

supermarinematt
supermarinematt
04/01/2020 16:25
Well, that's game over. Our defence is porous, it's not very good at all. With that we can't score tries either ... It's poor. Having lots of ball is nice, but we are doing nothing with it other than coughing it up

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
04/01/2020 16:28
Normal service has been resumed.... (Sm19)

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:32
Quote:
supermarinematt
Well, that's game over. Our defence is porous, it's not very good at all. With that we can't score tries either ... It's poor. Having lots of ball is nice, but we are doing nothing with it other than coughing it up
We are playing some good stuff, but we’re not earning the right to go wide. Also obvious that Chudley is a significant step up from Cook which only becomes obvious over the 80 minutes.
"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 16:34
Back to the drawing board then !
Cracking team on paper .........but ? (Sm26)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
hasta
04/01/2020 16:35
Why play a power game when you have no ball carriers?

opti
Optimist
04/01/2020 16:35
Who predicted that Polledri would be the best back tower on the pitch!

opti
Optimist
04/01/2020 16:38
We could play for a month here and never look like scoring.

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
04/01/2020 16:39
I like to think I am fair however Bath play. With that in mind we have been rubbish today. We have had easily enough firepower to win but had come up well short.

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 16:40
Quote:
hasta
Why play a power game when you have no ball carriers?

Isn’t our no 8 one of these ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:43
My biggest concern is how the heads seemed to drop when Glos took the lead. It was only 4 points at that stage but you’d have though it was a mountain. Immediately started falling off tackles and giving away easy metres. Really very concerning

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

MESSAGES->author
hasta
04/01/2020 16:43
Theoretically

supermarinematt
supermarinematt
04/01/2020 16:43
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Quote:
supermarinematt
Well, that's game over. Our defence is porous, it's not very good at all. With that we can't score tries either ... It's poor. Having lots of ball is nice, but we are doing nothing with it other than coughing it up
We are playing some good stuff, but we’re not earning the right to go wide. Also obvious that Chudley is a significant step up from Cook which only becomes obvious over the 80 minutes.

Cook is a terrible 9. Too slow, doesn't see the field in front of him and the options, kicks poorly and makes poor decisions. That said he wasn't really the full problem today, our second half was school boy rugby

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 16:44
Hoops currently thinking very hard about the reasons for failure again, won’t be anything new just the same old rap (Sm100)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
hasta
04/01/2020 16:46
Same total inability to take advantage of opportunities.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
04/01/2020 16:47
Walker is a liability at the lineout.

DorsetBoy
Dorset Boy
04/01/2020 16:49
Had enough possession and territory to win that, but some very poor tackling in the second half, and if you don't convert that possession....

At one stage they showed each side had visited the oppos 22m 5 times. Gloucs had 26 points from their visits, Bath zilch.

Key lineouts lost deep in the 22.
Second Gloucs try came from a very crocked throw, not picked up, and that followed JJ being called back - 14 point swing.

Can't complain with the result - 4 tries to zip says it all.

Steve_M
Steve_M
04/01/2020 16:49
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Steve_M
Quote:
BathMatt53
Gloucester will obviously be favourites at home but it’s their backs that I am most concerned about as they are scoring for fun at the moment (but also conceding).

Gloucs scored 21 tries, conceded 9; the best record in the league so far. If Bath are to win this it will be behind a dominant pack. Gloucs have 5 front rowers out and three young lads to come on as replacements later in the game.

I think that those stats (whilst obvs true) are a bit skewed by them having played Tigers, the weakest Sarries etc. in the league during the RWC and then a very poor Worcs. They have conceded quite a few in the last couple of months against Connaught, Quins, Montp and of course last week at Saints. Their ability to score tries is pretty consistent irrespective of the opponent mind you, I think that Bath will need to score over 25 (possibly over 30 at Kingsholm) to win.

25 tries to 9 now Matt ?

dannyf2
dannyf2
04/01/2020 16:50
What the fudge was that? 70% possession and territory in the 1st half, plus a boat load of penalties.
That isn't the coaching - the players were absolutely pathetic today.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
04/01/2020 16:52
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Hoops currently thinking very hard about the reasons for failure again, won’t be anything new just the same old rap (Sm100)

What do you expect him to do. He has no magic wand. I haven’t watched the 2nd half but based on the first half I thought there was going to be only one winner so they were playing well at that stage. It is so disappointing because that was a very under strength Gloucester team. How did it slip away?

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 16:53
What does our brilliant backs coach actually do for his pay?

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
04/01/2020 16:54
Quote:
dannyf2
That isn't the coaching - the players were absolutely pathetic today.

With better coaching the players would play better.

4 tries to none and not even a LBP says it all.

supermarinematt
supermarinematt
04/01/2020 16:55
Quote:
dannyf2
What the fudge was that? 70% possession and territory in the 1st half, plus a boat load of penalties.
That isn't the coaching - the players were absolutely pathetic today.

It was poor handling and mistakes at key moments yet again. The cook knock on at the base infront of the posts, the missed kick to the 5m and kicking it dead, going into contact and repeatedly getting the ball stripped, stepping up in defence when short and leaving huge holes .... As for the second half, less said the better

MESSAGES->author
Rawce
04/01/2020 16:56
Who ate all our tries, who ate all our tries? All the graft for possession/territory and nothing to show for it. I wonder why our attack has gotten worse than last year? When Glos got the ball, you felt lie something was going to happen, when we have the ball it’s time to take bets on how we cough it up and after how many phases.

Worse of all, a loss means ballsout will be delighted to be back on here groundhogging.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
04/01/2020 17:00
Starting to agree with the Blood and Mud podcast guys. Entire structure needs rebuilding from ground up. P

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Rokobilly
Rokobilly
04/01/2020 17:01
Grim second half. Tackling was soft. Line out cracked under pressure. When we did offload it went to a Glos player. Depressing viewing.

John Tee
John Tee
04/01/2020 17:02
Bath did everything right in the first 30...pretty much cruising but not really threatening to score and the points were too close.

After a half time roasting Glaws were able to present a better 2nd half and Bath had to come up with too many answers ...and if Bath couldn't cross the line...Glaws could put some distance in thd game because they defintely can and did score tries.

A game of two halves and whilst the Glaws coaches could affect their teams performance, i didnt see that from Bath.
Cips having a pretty rubbish game because Bath targetted him and ends up running the show with BTT in the 2nd half.


Bath need another gear...and im not sure they have it in the backroom staff....or the players dont believe it...??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:04:17:05:48 by John Tee.

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 17:03
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Hoops currently thinking very hard about the reasons for failure again, won’t be anything new just the same old rap (Sm100)

What do you expect him to do. He has no magic wand. I haven’t watched the 2nd half but based on the first half I thought there was going to be only one winner so they were playing well at that stage. It is so disappointing because that was a very under strength Gloucester team. How did it slip away?
Naively I might for once expect him to give a strait forward statement about how poor we were and not the usual fluff, and I shouldn’t bother to watch the 2nd half it was beyond dire (Sm128)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

dannyf2
dannyf2
04/01/2020 17:03
I can't accept that at this level, players dropping passes, throwing balls over their team mates' head, falling off tackles, spilling in contact, dropping lineouts etc. is a coaching issue. These are BASIC skills that you would assume of any player being offered an academy opportunity, let alone being selected for the Bath first team. Not acceptable.

TomReagan
TomReagan
04/01/2020 17:05
Spot on Rawce. Watched the first half but after such dominance without reward I pretty much knew the story of the second half and turned it off after 50 minutes to spare myself the inevitable frustration. Saw enough to know when Glos had the ball they were so much slicker and more direct. How can we be so slow, ponderous and inaccurate? Feeble!

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
04/01/2020 17:05
Our possession stats dropped to 47% in the second half but the very worrying stat is that we lost three line outs in the second half and I have a feeling two of them were from penalties and with good field position!

The dropping off of tackles is also worrying. How Woodward gained so many metres through 3/4 of our lads is a concern.

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Kidney Stone
Kidney Stone
04/01/2020 17:06
Second half collapse yet again, so disappointing.

Big call out for Will Stuart who must be ahead of HT as our no 1 THP.

Flo was huge also, the rest, pah!,

opti
Optimist
04/01/2020 17:12
Without Dunn, Stuart and Louw we’d have been 20 down at half time. If the teams swapped 9, 10, 12 we’d have won by 30.

Priestland started well - he even put a runner into a hole rather than a brick wall on one occasion. But he got worse and worse. Cook was just ordinary throughout - though the knock-on, on closer inspection, wasn’t a knock-on. And the JJ try would have stood if it hadn’t been for the late tackle decision earlier in the match. The two events were miles apart. But we deserved nowt.

P G Tips
P G Tips
04/01/2020 17:17
Yes -the worst aspect was our inability to score tries while dominant in most phases in the first half.

Poor defence and lost line outs certainly played their part, but Glos first 2 tries came from us losing ball on attack deep in their half. We should have had a couple of first half tries. I very much doubt if the collapse would have occurred had we been further ahead at half time.

Danny also makes a good point- some basic skills let us down under pressure - unacceptably so.

PG

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
04/01/2020 17:26
Walker's confidence must be shot to pieces, good time for Batty to come back.

P G Tips
P G Tips
04/01/2020 17:32
Agree OB- in fact I thought he would be called in for this weekend. IMHO his experience would have been useful.

PG

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
04/01/2020 17:46
We........


Sorry couldn’t think of anything else to say (Sm26)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
04/01/2020 18:23
Watching on box.

Ok for a bit and then second half - ………………………………………. (words fail me).
Just as well it was an 'away' match or there would have been a rush for the exit by Bath supporters 15 minutes before f/t.

Is the team being run by Committee again?

p.s. why is Cook still a Bath player He very narrowly escaped a yellow card today. Again.

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
04/01/2020 18:38
Walker good experiment but not the right stuff, next.
We should have been 2 tries up at HT but TF needs couple of games then, boom. Hope too late for 6N.
Sadly Cook ditto Walker.
WS tremendous.
All in all we lost at Glos, annoying but not disaster.
Toast & M, don’t be silly.

HOP

Given that Bath currently appear to be national champions at it this article possibly throws some light on what could engender such crippling collective "underperformance". Any thoughts?

[www.theguardian.com]

Sorry, already posted elsewhere I now see

Trawling
Trawling
04/01/2020 20:09
The usual suspects are foaming at the mouth (BoB is still warming up somewhere). One cliche and two observations for me:
You have to take your chances when you are on top.
We had time to get a score for a losing bonus point and tried to score from 70 metres instead of playing territory.
In defence in the same period too many people tried to turn the ball over in the tackle or pull off the miracle interception instead of just stopping the player.

warrenball
warrenball
04/01/2020 20:53
The result was not unexpected but the worst aspect is the tactic of always playing it so safe, in all honesty it was not much of a game to watch and Bath contributed little to the entertainment factor. No doubt the coaches would point out things could have been different if the Joseph try had not been ruled out by a silly penalty for a late tackle, but we will not stop the top teams scoring 20/25 points no matter how well we defend and unless we can start scoring tries we will lose more than we win.

Where do we go now, a couple of dead weeks to give the coaches time to consider, I don't think Hooper will change anything because defence seems to be where he feels most comfortable and in control, but relegation is most unlikely and I would like to see him take off the shackles a bit and try and score a few more tries.

Tigers will be an interesting match especially as they seem to be finding their feet at last, let us hope for the spectators sake it is not turned into a drab arm wrestle.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
04/01/2020 23:48
First half too many missed chances.
Second half too many missed tackles.

Our decision making inside the Glaws 5m line was woeful. Just keep on picking and going. Scrum excellent, line out not. First 60 minutes very good but if we're going to fall off a cliff in the last 20 then we need to be a long way ahead by then.

Roko simply brilliant, Taulupe very good and Will Stuart rapidly becoming player of the season.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:05:01:35:39 by joethefanatic.

rainbow
rainbow
05/01/2020 08:52
An earlier comment that Bath were in control and cruising at half time sums it up. Pleased to see what i considered to be a very strong team at Kingsholm unfortunately the strong team proved to be Gloucester. Half time pep talk must have been something like steady as you go lads in the other shed it was along the lines of get your rear ends into gear otherwise you'll be booed of at full time and they did. It was almost as though Bath went into shock an awful second half. Chilcott was on TV Friday night he would never have allowed Gloucester back into that game never. Congratulations to Gloucester a humiliation for Bath Rugby and their travelling supporters.

westglos
westglos
05/01/2020 09:15
We were without 11 injured players, of whom 8 would have been in yesterday's squad. But we played like a team, not a group of talented individuals. Johan Ackerman fosters a real team unity, a "band of brothers" approach, as he did with the Lions in South Africa, with excellent man management skills. I have to pose the question - Is Hooper capable of that?

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
05/01/2020 09:31
Quote:
westglos
We were without 11 injured players, of whom 8 would have been in yesterday's squad. But we played like a team, not a group of talented individuals. Johan Ackerman fosters a real team unity, a "band of brothers" approach, as he did with the Lions in South Africa, with excellent man management skills. I have to pose the question - Is Hooper capable of that?

From what I hear, Hooper isn’t. In fact far from it.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
05/01/2020 09:53
Westglos you have probably hit the nail on the head. I know you were not at full strength, unlike us. Hooper should know every player inside out and how to motivate them/ get the best out of them as he has been at Bath long enough. Trouble is he never consistently did as a captain on the field and seemingly cannot off it.

Mind you I enjoyed the attacking rugby I saw in the second half by a side who both were motivated, powerful and skillful enough to play well and take advantage of woeful dicesion and skill levels and awful tackling opposite them. How many players did young Polledri beat on his own?

Questions must be raised about Cook and Walker at his level. Where is Batty and how long before Max Green returns and why not play young Fox? He might improve with game time and has a far better pass than Cook.

As said, if it wasn't for Louw, Stuart and Dunn again, we could/should have lost by many more. And this a game which being a local Derby is so important to us. Laughable. Obviously not motivational enough for this Bath set up.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

John Tee
John Tee
05/01/2020 12:45
Bath's problems arent the team they put out on paper.
The backs you have should be able to drag you out of relegation...no question, as it is good international quality.
If you had Cipriani they'd be scoring tries which would take the pressure off everything else.

I think you also had enough quality across the pitch to keep you in games but something fundimental is wrong.

Your pack looks big enough and your back row must be as good as anyones. The 'cheapest' fix must be at coaching level...??

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/01/2020 14:29
- Van Rensberg
- McCloskey
- Aki
- Atkinson
- Henshaw
- Barritt
- Devoto

I’m afraid that the days of a one trick bish bash no. 12 have been gone for a while and it is crippling the team IMO. As the first half demonstrates we can win all the possession in the world but rubbish (slow and obvious) ball to the stellar outside backs simply gives them nothing to work with. I don’t feel good saying it as JR seems like a lovely bloke but i just don’t think that the head-down-run-into-people-with-ball-up-jersey approach does anything in 2020 but slow it down or get you turned over.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

John Tee
John Tee
05/01/2020 14:55
Agree, especially as the party piece is nowhere near as frequent these days. 10 years of that game might be taking its toll and the 12 is now a multi skiiled playermaker who should be able to run, pass or kick.
It is too easy to hunt down a 10 unless they move around and disguise a lot.
The 10 doesnt need to be that great if you have two tuilagi types in the centres, but they also then need to be able to bring the back 3 into play. Those players dont grow on trees and i quite like good first reciever at 12 anyway....it just fixes defences and makes them have to be more honest because they don't know where the point of attack starts...or rather cant police it so easily...
It is no accident that Glaws get more dangerous as the players get tired...
But Bath must get more from their squad of players...it is puzzling why they dont.
Have you tried Burns and Preistland at 10 and 12... because you meed to get Roko and Watson on the ball via JJ.
Bring JC and RD into play and you have a backline to die for...?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/01/2020 14:57
Just posted it on the other thread...Anton LB is out of contract at end of the year and is an OK 12!

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

ilovebathtime
ilovebathtime
05/01/2020 15:04
Bathmatt53 you are absolutely right. It doesn't work anymore. I have always preferred a playmaker at 12 like catt or barkley anyway, but I think now the alternative option has to have pace and an offloading game, otherwise it is so easy to defend. To be honest you could probably swap Roberts with a flanker and you wouldn't see a difference.

In my opinion we regressed when we lost Eastmond , and then again when we replaced Tapuai with Roberts. With each change our backline has become more toothless

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/01/2020 15:22
Quote:
ilovebathtime
Bathmatt53 you are absolutely right. It doesn't work anymore. I have always preferred a playmaker at 12 like catt or barkley anyway, but I think now the alternative option has to have pace and an offloading game, otherwise it is so easy to defend. To be honest you could probably swap Roberts with a flanker and you wouldn't see a difference.
In my opinion we regressed when we lost Eastmond , and then again when we replaced Tapuai with Roberts. With each change our backline has become more toothless

Zach M at 12 it is...would be fascinating to see how he would get on there in an A league game or something.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05/01/2020 16:41
I think Roberts is seen as a ball carrier in the absence of a big 8. It can still work but the timing of the pass from 9 and 10 is crucial and we don't have that right yet in my opinion.

Yesterday we saw glimpses of it in the 1st half but lost our shape in the 2nd half with the forwards tiring and possession becoming scrappy.

I don't think Glos were any better at setting up attacks but they delivered points off our mistakes very well and our tackling was terrible late on.

In summary our backline distribution isn't great but it is improving slightly and Roberts experience can help get that right. Eastmond was very clever for us at times but not off slow ball with zero space.

My feeling yesterday was that each of our coaches probably prepared their own element of our game well. It needs someone to glue each part together so that it becomes more instinctive and works even when under pressure and with tired bodies.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/01/2020 16:49
It’s moot anyway BB given that JR and JW will presumably be off at the end of the season. Just depends on what type of 12 Bath sign to replace them (basher, playmaker or both).

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

John Tee
John Tee
05/01/2020 17:01
Get your money out and build your backs around Lozowski

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05/01/2020 17:06
A point I am making is you need a ball carrier or 2 in any team and if we don't want to break Faletau on that thankless task then having JR is not a bad thing.

Who ever leaves and arrives, the balance across the team needs to be right and the timing of passes from 9 and 10 accurate.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
05/01/2020 17:13
Quote:
B4thB4ck
A point I am making is you need a ball carrier or 2 in any team and if we don't want to break Faletau on that thankless task then having JR is not a bad thing.
Who ever leaves and arrives, the balance across the team needs to be right and the timing of passes from 9 and 10 accurate.

Agreed. Obano seems to be carrying quite a bit up the middle tbf, as are Stooke, Stuart and McNally - with Underhill and Flouw further out.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05/01/2020 17:27
Of the list of 12s given, I'm not sure I would describe either Barritt or Van Rensberg as gifted distributing 12s! The problem is speed of delivery and, sad to say, that starts at 9. The production of ball from the rucks is very good but when it is laid at his feet, Cooky looks up to see where his pass is. That takes 2 seconds and that's 2 seconds too long. The oppo defence has had time for a cup of tea and a biscuit by then.

That said, we would be greatly improved by a distributing 12. Loz or Devoto would do nicely but Freds line defence isn't good enough for him to play there. How about shifting JJ in one? His outside break seems to be a thing of the past these days but his defence is good and his ground kicking and his passing are excellent. He's wasted where he is.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
05/01/2020 17:54
Quote:
westglos
We were without 11 injured players, of whom 8 would have been in yesterday's squad. But we played like a team, not a group of talented individuals. Johan Ackerman fosters a real team unity, a "band of brothers" approach, as he did with the Lions in South Africa, with excellent man management skills. I have to pose the question - Is Hooper capable of that?

I don’t think that is the case at all. All you have done is allow the two usual suspects to get back on their hobby horse. You have had some poor results under your wonderful head coach. We have had good wins against Exeter, Northampton, LI & Sale under ours. Suddenly we lose a game which seemed to be down to a spate of error & poor execution & the usual scape-goat is trotted out as the reason. Utter tosh.

John Tee
John Tee
05/01/2020 18:42
But putting 80 mins together is a tough ask.
If Bath had continued with their first 30 mins form you'd have been in with a chance to win...and most probably would have achieved that.
Had Glaws done the same as per the second half they'll stand to hammer a very good team.

westglos
westglos
05/01/2020 19:41
Bath Hammer - My hypothesis was reinforced by a conversation at the ground with a former Bath & England player I know. He cited Hooper as being a significant factor in performances that he thought were disappointing from a squad of good quality.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
05/01/2020 20:02
Quote:
westglos
Bath Hammer - My hypothesis was reinforced by a conversation at the ground with a former Bath & England player I know. He cited Hooper as being a significant factor in performances that he thought were disappointing from a squad of good quality.

A couple of observations. Hooper is a rookie DoR so he's learning on the job. Hooper is also a rookie (and unplanned) Head Coach so he's learning that on the job, as well. He has experienced departmental coaches under him and their plans seem to be going fine (altho the jury is out on Dempsey atm). So, as alluded to above, its the stitching together that needs work... and Hoops is learning on the job.

IMHO its is likely that Bath foresaw that this would happen and decided that, in the service of the longer term vision, it was a price worth paying. We've won 4 games this season already, which is 4 more than the doomsayers were willing to grant before the season started. We are starting to see a very good forwards unit emerging and, if we play 10 man rugby, we are *very* effective. We have stellar outside backs. Our problem is that in trying to get the ball to them, we make mistakes and the opposition capitalise. I'd much rather we hone our forward game this season and win ugly, recognising that we do not currently have the personnel or game plans to play an 80 minute all court game.

We are not going to be top 4, we might get top 6 (although I think it would be better for us if we don't - Big Vase is about our level at the moment), we are (probably) not going to get relegated. So, experimentation is the order to the day.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:01:05:20:10:34 by joethefanatic.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
05/01/2020 20:15
Quote:
westglos
Bath Hammer - My hypothesis was reinforced by a conversation at the ground with a former Bath & England player I know. He cited Hooper as being a significant factor in performances that he thought were disappointing from a squad of good quality.

That may be so but there have been quite a few experienced individuals in the game who have a high opinion of Hooper but has been said it is a steep learning curve. It’s not as if our performances last year under an experienced coach were much to write home about.

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
05/01/2020 20:45
Quote:
westglos
Bath Hammer - My hypothesis was reinforced by a conversation at the ground with a former Bath & England player I know. He cited Hooper as being a significant factor in performances that he thought were disappointing from a squad of good quality.

Things you never hear said.

# 1865:-

'The team was much worse years ago when I was in it'.

bathstigg
bathstigg
05/01/2020 20:51
How long do we have to wait to get some success? Ive been watching since 2007 the last time we won the minor European Trophy and since then we've come close once in 2015. As we are not constrained for coaching personnel by the cap surely an owner worth over £300 million could secure the best rather than a novice coach to do both DOR and Head coach roles.

Ali1969
Ali1969
06/01/2020 10:13
Some very valid points made - having travelled up to Kingsholm and watched the game there were elements which demonstrate clearly that we have Improved in certain areas although the way we just capitulated in the last quarter was concerning as was the speed at which the management team appeared to act in relation to replacing clearly flagging players is a worry.

There are elements however which still really concern me - 1. Our inability to create and take try scoring opportunities despite dominating opposition. 2. Our ability to capitulate under pressure, I mentioned it before, that we have a propensity to concede a score and almost immediately concede again and again in quick succession and the game is gone....Finally 3. Our back play is neigh on non-existent - my concern is with our so called stellar back line and subsequently their international aspiration...Ask yourself the simple question if you were in their boots - how long are you going to put up with stagnant, slow ball/rugby which in turn is stifling your natural game and clearly not enhancing your career....Again why spend the majority of our salary cap on this Stellar backline if we choose or are unable to use it???? The service on Saturday appeared so slow at times that Gloucester had to slow down or they would have overshot our backline.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
06/01/2020 11:36
I have often said I like Cookie and his wanting to get stuck in but on Saturday his service to RP was very poor and slow, as was his arrival at rucks and mauls. To me, he hasn't got it anymore and definitely has not improved in the last two seasons. IMV we have to get him replaced and in the meantime try out Fox and Green as and when he is fit again, with Chudders starting.

I agree with Ali, that watching the game our back play was very ponderous and predictable, and easily snuffed out by a good Glos defence. After all the hard work by the forwards winning the ball, it is galling our back play is so slow and clueless on ideas. At least with a faster delivery we would give our talented backs the chance to do or try something.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

sid the seagull
sid the seagull
06/01/2020 12:41
Ali we had two ‘should have been’ nailed on opportunities in the first half.
First a TF offload to JR with the line begging, unfortunately it was difficult and reached JR at shin ht.
Second a great break by TF with a three on one overlap unfortunately he went inside to traffic and was tackled with a man outside and again the line begging.
However this was only his second match back after a very long time out. His class got him in those positions, in a couple of games those chances will have been taken.
The game would have unfolded very differently if we had been 15 pts up at HT.
Good signs for me.

FLAP

MESSAGES->author
hemington
06/01/2020 12:42
Yep it is a real shame that our backs can't fire but we were away and i believe I saw that Glos have the best defence (tries conceded) in the league. Would like to see our backs (on a dry pitch i.e. not the Boggy Wreck) against some other teams.

warrenball
warrenball
06/01/2020 13:02
Sid, you can always find examples when tries could or should have been scored, but they were not and that is all that counts. Unfortunately we all know the shortcomings in our game and our problems at 9, 10 & 12, these have been discussed and dissected since last season. It appears the club either can't afford, can't attract or think we don't need new players in those positions so we are stuck with this rather dull offering. Certainly we will win our share of matches to probably finish higher than half way up the table but is there another less exciting team to watch in the league?

opti
Optimist
06/01/2020 13:05
Quote:
sid the seagull
Ali we had two ‘should have been’ nailed on opportunities in the first half.
First a TF offload to JR ...Second a great break by TF with a three on one overlap unfortunately he went inside to traffic and was tackled with a man outside and again the line begging.
However this was only his second match back after a very long time out. His class got him in those positions, in a couple of games those chances will have been taken.
The game would have unfolded very differently if we had been 15 pts up at HT.
Good signs for me.

It was Ant who with the second chance who went back inside, when the pass to Flouw on the outside was the better option. However - I'm not sure there is a team in the league that could have failed to score from the overall position that the breakout had created. It was almost easier to score than to not score - but of course the forwards went into 'Exeter' mode, where they seem to have been instructed to make their way to the tryline 6 inches at a time, rather than giving - say Joseph, Watson or Roko - a tilt at a one on one. Our mindset in the 5-metre zone is absolutely pathetic. A Ford, Smith, Cipriani - or virtually any 10 with a modicum of belief and authority - just wouldn't allow such heads-down rugby.

opti
Optimist
06/01/2020 13:10
....on the other hand, just noticed that our U18s beat Exeter away - which means we've beaten the sainted academies of Sarries and Exe in successive games, and that another de Glanville was on the teamsheet. Practically every Prem side seems to have brothers and/or sons of 80s stars in their side these days, so maybe that's another trend we're late cottoning on to!

opti
Optimist
06/01/2020 18:46
Nice piece on BT Sport with Burns and Banahan watching and discussing last year’s 31-31 draw.

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