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KEEP ON BUZZING: BATH v WASPS


Ewels: authority

By PG Tips
August 27 2020

Even without spectators there should be a buzz at The Rec when Bath host Wasps on Monday. The two teams will be scrapping for 4th place and both can claim to have hit form on the resumption of the Premiership. Bath may feel the happier of the two, having won all three matches, but the attacking style and flair that brought the visitors try bonuses against Northampton and Worcester suggest another tough test for Bath’s defence. Will the Blue, Black and White have the resolve, the skill and the venom to make it four in a row?  

Having started the resumption with a bang, Wasps slipped up at home against Sale, who bossed the breakdown. They will be anxious to repair that aspect of their game and desperate for another win to put them back in playoff contention. Chief danger men, in the current climate of breakdown interpretation will be their loose forwards of whom Willis has been the standout in recent matches. Although they have adopted a more rotational approach to squad selection than Bath, I expect them to choose their best trio- with Young and Shields joining Willis. Behind the scrum, the feisty Fekitoa is a handful in both attack and defence and they have two attack -minded fly halves to choose from. Sopoaga can conjure moments of magic with ball in hand and ignite a backline of talents, of whom Bassett on the wing is a lethal finisher. Umaga, possibly a bench choice for this match can add extra control and equal vision when introduced, but possibly the greatest threat is the veteran Robson at scrum half. Like Bath’s Ben Spencer, he has not had the international breaks he deserves and will be keen to impress. Bath will need to put the squeeze on up front and reproduce the stinging defence of Wednesday’s victory at Northampton to contain the Wasps swarm.

 

Bath’s coaches will be pleased with 14 points from a possible 15 in the last 3 rounds. They will be even more pleased with the way a largely ‘B’ selection blunted Saints and the way the game turned with the injection of experience from the bench. More of the same forward power, accurate box and touch kicking, implacable defence and attack in the final third are likely to be the order of the day. Of Wednesday’s starters, Man of the Match Beno Obano deserves another turn and I would keep Redpath for his elusiveness and distribution. Otherwise I expect the team will show wholesale changes from the Franklins’ Gardens starting line-up. Tom de Glanville should be rested after the heavy knock he took and, if fit, some of the more venerable front rowers may get the call – I would like to see Ross Batty get a turn on the bench. Hopefully Joe Cokanasiga, described as “not far away from a return” at the beginning of the month, will be fit for a cameo run on. Charlie Ewels is growing in authority both as skipper and lock, Rhys Priestland is building a fine partnership with Ben Spencer, exerting greater control on games, while Ruaridh McConnochie can light up a game, and turn it, in an instant. What fans, and I suspect coaches, would like to see more of, is fluency in attack and continuity in building that fluency though the phases – an attribute vital against the better organised sides.

 

For now, though, the task is to beat Wasps, at home, with as convincing a score as possible. As long as Bath keep winning, the buzz of supporter approval and confidence will grow. It will be no easy task, but I back Blue, Black and White to outshine Black and Gold. Hopefully that will be achieved with sharp attacking sting.

  

Possible Teams

Bath: Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (Capt.), Stooke, Ellis, Underhill, Faletau. B Spencer, Priestland. McConnochie, Redpath, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Watson.

Replacements: Boyce, Batty, Judge, McNally, Reid. Green, Matavesi, Cokanasiga.

Wasps: McIntyre, Taylor, Alo, Launchbury, Gaskell, Willis, Young, Shields. Robson, Sopoaga. Bassett, Gopperth, Fekitoa, Watson. Miller.

Replacements: Cruse, West, Owlett, Rowlands, Morris . Vellacott, Umaga, Odogwu.

  

PS. I depart shortly for my charity walk, so for the next few weeks I will leave you in the capable hands ( and inimitable style) of Mr Frivolous. Enjoy the coming games. COYB!

 

PG Tips

 

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KEEP ON BUZZING: BATH v WASPS and TEAM UP
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 27/08/2020 11:16
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
Comeonmylovers.co.uk
27/08/2020 11:16
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:01:12:54:32 by CoochieCoo.

gaz59
gaz59
27/08/2020 11:21
Very good preview PG but top marks for a great title

by
by
27/08/2020 11:51
Bath need to go full strength.

Hoping Redpath will start alongside RP and JJ but likely to be Wright.

Don't think Matavesi or TdG will be eligible to play due to failing a HIA (mandatory 7 day stand down isn't it?)

Not sure who will cover 10 from the bench, if so.

Danchinho
Danchinho
27/08/2020 14:14
Mercer offers more than Faletau.

Also, as much as I love the strength and mind set of Ellis, he is slow. Offers very little in attack.
If a team wants to play around the edges of the ruck then I reckon Ellis is a great pick defensively.
I doubt Bayliss will be available but I think maybe someone like Reid would be more dynamic which would be a big help if Faletau has another one of his quiet days.
An attacking back row would really help our backs get into the game imo.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
27/08/2020 15:02
Danchinho

Isn't it great to be finessing the selection in the manner you set out above.................rather than trying to get just the fit players on the field!

bardofavon
bardofavon
27/08/2020 16:41
will willis be allowed to start on Monday? I think he has started the last two. as indeed has redpath.

opti
Optimist
27/08/2020 17:01
Players can play 6 of the 7 matches, and it looks as though no-one is actually playing 3 games in any 7-day period, so it's essentially up to the clubs how they manage player workloads. Wasps have 6-day turnaround on this game, but they have a nasty looking run-in - they could be looking at 2 out of 6 from this. If we take 4 pts from the Wasps game, I reckon we're a shoo-in for the play-offs with the way Saints are playing.

31.8: Bath, a
5.9: Sarries, a
9.9: Tigers, h
13.9: Bristol, h
18.9: Quins, a
4.10: Exe, h

gaz59
gaz59
27/08/2020 17:30
Quote:
Optimist
Players can play 6 of the 7 matches, and it looks as though no-one is actually playing 3 games in any 7-day period, so it's essentially up to the clubs how they manage player workloads. Wasps have 6-day turnaround on this game, but they have a nasty looking run-in - they could be looking at 2 out of 6 from this. If we take 4 pts from the Wasps game, I reckon we're a shoo-in for the play-offs with the way Saints are playing.
31.8: Bath, a
5.9: Sarries, a
9.9: Tigers, h
13.9: Bristol, h
18.9: Quins, a
4.10: Exe, h

Don't get too excited, that will probably mean Exeter away in semi

TomReagan
TomReagan
27/08/2020 18:18
And dependant on the players teams pick. As well as squad rotation due to fixture congestion you can factor in European games and resting players if teams have already secured their positions. There will be a few 'surprise' results before the season's done

Danchinho
Danchinho
28/08/2020 00:26
Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Danchinho
Isn't it great to be finessing the selection in the manner you set out above.................rather than trying to get just the fit players on the field!

Yep! Nice problem for H&H to have!

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
28/08/2020 03:31
It's going to depend a lot on who the ref is. Jack Willis will eat us alive at the breakdown if he has a ref who agrees with him. We don't really have anyone who can compete with him and Thomas Young. The best strategy might be to avoid tackles completely and offload!

But our pack is collectively better than Wasps', so I'd expect a game plan very much like the one for Saints. Maybe start Spencer and see how Sopoaga deals with the box kicks.

Bath by 10, BP win, none of the tries from further out than 5m.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

dannyf2
dannyf2
28/08/2020 10:58
Wasps have issues at tight head.
Same again please, Mr.s Obano and Boyce.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28/08/2020 11:04
Quote:
dannyf2
Wasps have issues at tight head.
Same again please, Mr.s Obano and Boyce.

They need someone like Will Stuart. With someone like Beno at LHP. Shame they can't uncover porps like those two. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

opti
Optimist
28/08/2020 11:04
Bris too - Lahiff and Afoa out, temporary signings in.

charlieboa
charlieboa
28/08/2020 11:37
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
dannyf2
Wasps have issues at tight head.
Same again please, Mr.s Obano and Boyce.

They need someone like Will Stuart. With someone like Beno at LHP. Shame they can't uncover porps like those two. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Ouch, they must be smarting.

Tbf hatley does a great job with the frontrowers so who knows if they would have kicked on as they have with us. Top drawer players now, offer everything you could want from porps.... please stay fit.

Anyone have any idea jf schoeman has been allowed in the country yet? We need to get beno and boyce some rest at some stage.

Any idea of henry is fit and ready to go?

opti
Optimist
28/08/2020 13:55
Quote:
BathMatt53
They need someone like Will Stuart. With someone like Beno at LHP. Shame they can't uncover porps like those two. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Nice that the narrative is around players who have come to us. Makes a change from BoB pointing out every rugby player who has ever visited the Roman Baths and bemoaning Bath’s ineptitude for letting them slip through the net.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28/08/2020 14:27
Touch wood, but I'm actually struggling to think of a poor signing that Bath has made for years. Even ones that I was reserving opinion on have turned out to be good (Boyce, Williams, McNally).

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
hasta
28/08/2020 14:39
Noguera Paz, Victor Delmas, Pierre-Henry Broncon

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28/08/2020 14:48
Quote:
hasta
Noguera Paz, Victor Delmas, Pierre-Henry Broncon

Yes exactly, years ago. Paz was Dec 2017 and the other 2 early 2018. For the last couple seasons the recruitment has been spot on IMO. Before that there seemed to be as many hits as misses (or maybe my brain is only remembering the misses) after a bit of a golden period in 2013 / 2014 (Watson, JJ, Ford etc).

Maybe it is that cautiousness that has stopped us just plumping for a 10 who isn't ideal.

In fact didn't Broncon bring in Delmas - a sort of BOGOF super package of not very good employees...

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:28:15:20:52 by BathMatt53.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
28/08/2020 15:00
It’s great to see how well managed the club is now days. The choices made about coaches & players has been good & everyone is working well together. The only remaining question seems to be regarding our attack coach but hopefully that area of our play will show improvement idc

Ali1969
Ali1969
28/08/2020 15:00
Think the Officials will be so key in this fixture - Wasps are only too aware of the strength of our pack and like Saints they will be looking at every opportunity "not to engage" or "scrummage", they will be hoping for a soft ear from the man in the middle which will allow them to negate our main attacking weapon.

Personally think we will go as per Irish with TF, Underhill and Mercer with perhaps Williams/Ellis on bench. Think Roko will be rested as he has played all three games which may mean a run out if not from the start off the bench for big Joe C.

And having checked it is: MR BARNES.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:28:15:11:13 by Ali1969.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
28/08/2020 15:03
Quote:
Ali1969
Think the Officials will be so key in this fixture - Wasps are only too aware of the strength of our pack and like Saints they will be looking at every opportunity "not to engage" or "scrummage", they will be hoping for a soft ear from the man in the middle which will allow them to negate our main attacking weapon.
Personally think we will go as per Irish with TF, Underhill and Mercer with perhaps Williams/Ellis on bench. Think Roko will be rested as he has played all three games which may mean a run out if not from the start off the bench for big Joe C.

I think it is pretty difficult to second guess team selection with the matches coming as thick & fast as they are.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28/08/2020 15:25
At home to Worcester seems to be the only remaining midweek game - I would pick a squad side for that one and go pretty hard on the others tbh. The last 3 games are really tough.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

gaz59
gaz59
28/08/2020 15:35
Quote:
hasta
Noguera Paz, Victor Delmas, Pierre-Henry Broncon

In fairness to the club, a 40 plus cap Argentinian prop should have been a sound signing. Something went wrong there

Delmas was just a bizarre recruitment. Were we sent the wrong video?

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
28/08/2020 15:45
Bath strong favourites at this stage, 3/16; Wasps 5/1 before team selection; Oddschecker Bath Rugby

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
28/08/2020 15:59
that seems like very generous odd for Wasps...

Skybet have Sale by 15, Exe by 27 and Glos by 17. Will be a high scoring weekend!

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:28:16:01:14 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
28/08/2020 16:09
I agree Matt, almost worth a punt to salve any wounds should we slip up (Sm100)

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

Bepetas
Bepetas
28/08/2020 23:27
I'd go for...

1 Beno Obano
2 Tom Dunn
3 Will Stuart
4 Will Spencer
5 Charlie Ewels
6 Josh Bayliss
7 Sam Underhill
8 Taulupe Faletau

9 Ben Spencer
10 Rhys Priestland
11 Ruaridh McConnochie
12 Josh Matavesi
13 Max Wright
14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
15 Anthony Watson

16 Ross Batty
17 Lewis Boyce
18 Henry Thomas
19 Josh McNally
20 Miles Reid
21 Max Green
22 Cameron Redpath
23 Joe Cokanasiga if fit Roko if not

Lets hope the team can keep the good run going!

opti
Optimist
28/08/2020 23:44
No Joseph?

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
28/08/2020 23:53
Tbh Matavesi has become very important for us. I would not be risking him at 12.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

charlieboa
charlieboa
29/08/2020 12:22
Did bayliss and matavesi fail hia's?

If so assume its too tight a turnaround for return to play protocols?

That would leave us with an issue at 12 as not sure redpath can start again? Guess wright/clark/ojo could be used. Redpath covering 10 or bailey on bench?

I would be tempted to completely rest some of the front rowers over the next few rounds. Can't keep using the same 6. Thomas fit? Schoeman arrived?

I assume mcnally, ellis, underhill, faletau, jj, watson will play a big role after total rest on weds.

Would be great to see coko involved.

Danchinho
Danchinho
30/08/2020 01:26
Quote:
BathMatt53
Touch wood, but I'm actually struggling to think of a poor signing that Bath has made for years. Even ones that I was reserving opinion on have turned out to be good (Boyce, Williams, McNally).

Injury has played a big part in this but even when fit Faletau hasn’t looked a great player in Bath colours. Good, yes. Great, very rarely.

charlieboa
charlieboa
30/08/2020 07:36
Quins look to have gone v strong today, 6 days before we play them.

May influence some of our decisions for tomorrow? I know you need your own plans but the schedule this weekend gives us insight for next weekend which i personally think should form part of the thinking.

I think mix and match teams could get us 2 wins.

charlieboa
charlieboa
30/08/2020 10:13
I would go for the below but sure hoops/hatley will go for something v different, only a few hrs til we find out:

Vaughan
Batty
Thomas
Mcnally
Stooke
Ellis
Underhill
Faletau

Spencer
Rhys
Coko
Wright
JJ
Gh-w
Watson

Bench: beno, walker, judge, spencer, reid, green, bailey, rmc

Keep beno up our sleeve for a big impact second half. Give boyce, dunn, stuart and ewels a complete rest and really go at quins up front next week. As i say i think we can win against wasps and quins if we are cute with selection.

Quins, something like:

Boyce
Dunn
Stuart
Spencer
Ewels
Williams
Bayliss
Mercer

Chudley
Matavesi
Rmc
Redpath
Clark
Roko
Tdg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:30:10:19:12 by charlieboa.

BBWBaaBaa
BBWBaaBaa
30/08/2020 12:03
Team up!

[www.bathrugby.com]

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
30/08/2020 12:07
15. Anthony Watson, 14. Ruaridh McConnochie, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Josh Matavesi, 11. Gabriel Hamer-Webb, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels (C), 6. Zach Mercer, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau

REPLACEMENTS

16. Jack Walker, 17. Lewis Boyce, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Elliott Stooke, 20. Miles Reid, 21. Max Green, 22. Max Clark, 23. Tom de Glanville

Adopted player 20/21: Will Spencer - welcome home http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597354200.jpg

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597330055.jpghttp://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597330111.jpg

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
30/08/2020 12:10
Quote:
BBWBaaBaa
Team up!
[www.bathrugby.com]

Tasty - we should have enough fire power up front, a bit more dazzle from the back line would be v welcome...

The Pests team...

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:30:12:12:11 by Clarkey3k.

bathwickboy
bathwickboy
30/08/2020 12:13
That looks a very strong side on paper. No Ellis or Bayliss on the bench, rested, out of favour or injured? It should be a fascinating clash between the back rows of each side if Willis and Young are selected for Wasps.
Although I wrote in a previous post that I considered this season to be 'dead' as far as rugby was concerned, I am slowly beginning to have a rethink. Come on Bath!!!

charlieboa
charlieboa
30/08/2020 12:26
Given how strong wasps have gone which surprised me a bit i am glad we have basically gone for a first team.

I guess its almost a shoot up for top 4. If we win we make it v difficult for them to get back into the mix.

Quins gone strong for today so maybe will make a fair few changes for next sat. We could still name something along the below lines which should give us a chance:

Boyce
Walker
Judge
Spencer
Stooke
Williams
Ellis
Bayliss
Chudley
Matavesi
Coko
Redpath
Clark
Roko
Tdg

bardofavon
bardofavon
30/08/2020 12:34
a pity no redpath. I guess the kid needs a rest. surprised to see TdG in there after his bludgeoning.
wasps have gone max strong. they really want points from this one.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
30/08/2020 13:04
Redpath played 80 two games in a row, so not surprised he gets a rest

bathwickboy
bathwickboy
30/08/2020 13:36
There is a 'Cokanasiga' on the bench for London Irish. Has ours done a runner, if so it would be his first of this mini season? I assume younger brother?

charlieboa
charlieboa
30/08/2020 13:48
Quote:
bathwickboy
There is a 'Cokanasiga' on the bench for London Irish. Has ours done a runner, if so it would be his first of this mini season? I assume younger brother?

Yep, phil. Eng u20 centre. Wouldnt be upset to see him or will joseph with us at some stage!

opti
Optimist
30/08/2020 17:53
The difference between 3rd and 4th this year is Bob Hope vs no hope in the play-offs, so I’m not surprised to see both teams at full strength.

MESSAGES->author
hasta
30/08/2020 20:11
This is a must win. Lose and weakness of opponent will be brought up about every other result.

Win and Top 4 looks seriously likely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:30:20:12:19 by hasta.

Bath Hammer
Bath Hammer
30/08/2020 23:00
Yes, this should be a proper challenge. I think our forwards will be stronger but they have two turnover specialists & they will try to avoid getting into an arm wrestle. Whilst individually no stronger than us I imagine their backs are more potent as a group so if it’s a very open games they will have the advantage. If we can keep it tight we will.

MESSAGES->author
joethefanatic
30/08/2020 23:49
I wonder if Lima Sopoaga fancies a run at 10 in a different colored shirt? An AB 10 selected behind a tyro 10 (albeit the nephew of an AB ) must be a little difficult. But his main issues over the last couple of years is that the Wasps forwards have been unable to a) win enough possession and b) protect him. He'd certainly get a lot of ball from our forwards and we have stellar backs for him to play with. The word is that he doesn't do defence which might be a bit of a problem but he's done all his acclimatising now and he can catch the ball, so BO should approve.

But can you imagine the effect of SH backs running lines behind a heavyweight NH pack? Might take a couple of years to hone but #allcourtgame.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:00:13:38 by joethefanatic.

dcsh
dcsh
31/08/2020 09:17
Has it been concluded that the “180 minutes across 3 matches in a week” rule doesn’t apply to us this week due to the distribution of our games? Good if that is the case otherwise there will have to be some pre planned substitutions.

I guess that still means the no player can play in all 7 matches applies, which means we’ll need some other players to come into the match squad in the front five for at least 2 matches, plus Rhys and Josh will both need to sit one match out. So it would seem to me that we can do partial squad rotation/rest for the Quin’s and Worcester matches and then be back to full strength for the away match to Sale, depending on injuries and possibly results.

charlieboa
charlieboa
31/08/2020 09:29
That's pretty much the way i would play it dcsh.

Quins may rotate a bit tho do have a 6 day turnaround. Hopefully we could beat them whilst making 5-10 changes.

Again i would hope we could sneak past wuss after making 5-10 changes.

Imagine sale will hopefully be a shoot out for 2nd/3rd so got to go strong i think. 4th feels a little pointless unless exeter are battered after european games.

As you say i think bailey/redpath/tdg are going to have to cover 10 at some stage. I think we will start rotating front row more from sat onwards personally. Workload will get too much for those 6.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
31/08/2020 09:37
Quote:
dcsh
Has it been concluded that the “180 minutes across 3 matches in a week” rule doesn’t apply to us this week due to the distribution of our games? Good if that is the case otherwise there will have to be some pre planned substitutions.
I guess that still means the no player can play in all 7 matches applies, which means we’ll need some other players to come into the match squad in the front five for at least 2 matches, plus Rhys and Josh will both need to sit one match out. So it would seem to me that we can do partial squad rotation/rest for the Quin’s and Worcester matches and then be back to full strength for the away match to Sale, depending on injuries and possibly results.

Yes it 100% applies to the game weeks 14, 15 and 16. This is why Denny Solomona had to be subbed before 37 mins and 30 seconds (or something like that) on Saturday.

[edited to remove loads of text]

For example:

Josh Matavesi 29 then 70
Rhys Priestland 51 then 21
Ben Spencer 59 then 25

I think that that most of them are pretty free to play most (if not all) of the match. Only worries would have been if a sub had to come on immediately, such as Redpath etc who has played both but isn't named on the bench.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:09:39:04 by BathMatt53.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
31/08/2020 10:23
A big match for Faletau today, the only B&I Lion in either pack, and the weather looks good so should suit his carrying and running game. If Mercer can get on his shoulder occasionally they could both do real damage and get us on the front foot and hopefully releasing our back line with quick ball in broken play. I would take a 3-0 today just to consolidate our Top 4 place but as Opti posted elsewhere, 3rd in the play offs gives us a "Rocky" chance to make the final. I know I am getting ahead of myself but really do believe we will be in the play offs this season, just don't want it to be Chiefs away from 4th. COYB!!

Even The Daily Wail thinks we are on the move - Chris Foy article

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:10:38:44 by Clarkey3k.

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 11:24
As a season ticket holder should I have been emailed an access code to watch the game (I haven't been), remembered my previous code or, which I'm banking on, will I just be able to log in to the live stream because somehow the tech recognises me? Please forgive my ignorance!

Devonport Lad
Devonport Lad
31/08/2020 11:32
Tom, you should have received an email with a link. Mine arrived on Thursday. Have you checked your spam box?

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
31/08/2020 12:01
Quote:
Devonport Lad
Tom, you should have received an email with a link. Mine arrived on Thursday. Have you checked your spam box?

Same. I didn't register again after the Irish game, another code just arrived before this weekend.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
CoochieCoo
31/08/2020 12:12
Yes received my code on Thursday.

Adopted player 20/21: Will Spencer - welcome home http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597354200.jpg

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597330055.jpghttp://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/105/105_0_1597330111.jpg

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 12:37
Thank you for responding. Nothing received. I had to email the club last time but been casual as have come to see parents who have BT but server down! Never mind, a nice day for cleaning their gutters! Enjoy the game.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
31/08/2020 13:02
Quote:
Clarkey3k
Bath strong favourites at this stage, 3/16; Wasps 5/1 before team selection; Oddschecker Bath Rugby

Odds have shortened for both teams now, Bath still odds on but Wasps have shortened to c2.5/1...

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 13:32
That'll be all us pessimists looking to cover ourselves by betting on Wasps to 'salve the wound' as I recall one post suggesting! Those odds seem far more realistic. Anyway, back up my ladder...!

dcsh
dcsh
31/08/2020 13:38
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
dcsh
Has it been concluded that the “180 minutes across 3 matches in a week” rule doesn’t apply to us this week due to the distribution of our games? Good if that is the case otherwise there will have to be some pre planned substitutions.

Yes it 100% applies to the game weeks 14, 15 and 16. This is why Denny Solomona had to be subbed before 37 mins and 30 seconds (or something like that) on Saturday.

[edited to remove loads of text]

For example:

Josh Matavesi 29 then 70
Rhys Priestland 51 then 21
Ben Spencer 59 then 25

I think that that most of them are pretty free to play most (if not all) of the match. Only worries would have been if a sub had to come on immediately, such as Redpath etc who has played both but isn't named on the bench.

Thanks Matt, it was quotes as 7 days somewhere, so wondered if the Bank Holiday fixture had negated it. But as you point out it looks ok for those key players.

9215
9215
31/08/2020 15:24
13-3 at the water break, RMc with an interception for the early try

9215
9215
31/08/2020 15:48
13-10 now, gone to uncontested scrums as Wasps have lost both hookers

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
31/08/2020 15:49
Uncontested scrums !
Falling off tackles .
Poor passing, can only get better
13-10 (Sm128)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
abendanon-anon-anon
31/08/2020 15:58
Thanks 9215, seems BBC have shut down live scores!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 15:59
Faletau doesn't seem to get the new laws. Willis clearly does. Wasps more physical than us at the moment.
In the battle of the England 9's Robson winning it unfortunately. We need to score next!

13-13 HT

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:15:59:54 by shipwrecked.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 15:59
Completely incompetent game management from Bath. Why take a quick Tap and then run away from your support aaaargh. If we try and play a lose game second half were going to get clobbered. With half an ounce of common sense we’d be 10 points clear instead of all square. Very frustrating.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:00
Wasps essentially have no line out / why aren’t we leathering it off the pitch?

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
31/08/2020 16:00
Since Oghre went off we seem to have lost our heads a bit. Hopefully we will regroup at half time.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 16:07
Is any one able to find the ‘shut the ***** up button for BT sport commentators’ so that it’s possible to hear what the officials are saying amongst themselves and the captains ? Whilst they were discussing the possibility of uncontested scrums the commentator was wittering on about next weekend’s games. Surely these idiots have a producer to tell them when to put a sock in it and listen.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:10
Quote:
ken_jnr
Since Oghre went off we seem to have lost our heads a bit. Hopefully we will regroup at half time.
It’s not a complex game plan that needs implementing- 8 and 10 just need to drive the team downfield
"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

John Tee
John Tee
31/08/2020 16:10
Quote:
joethefanatic
I wonder if Lima Sopoaga fancies a run at 10 in a different colored shirt? An AB 10 selected behind a tyro 10 (albeit the nephew of an AB ) must be a little difficult. But his main issues over the last couple of years is that the Wasps forwards have been unable to a) win enough possession and b) protect him. He'd certainly get a lot of ball from our forwards and we have stellar backs for him to play with. The word is that he doesn't do defence which might be a bit of a problem but he's done all his acclimatising now and he can catch the ball, so BO should approve.
But can you imagine the effect of SH backs running lines behind a heavyweight NH pack? Might take a couple of years to hone but #allcourtgame.

Will not offer anymore than RP so would be backup. imv
Talking of which, RP does ok with a limited gameplan...but cant work out which one drives the other.
Bath ambition or 10 ambition?

9215
9215
31/08/2020 16:27
16-13 now, most of the bench on

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:28
Some old failings appearing here

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
31/08/2020 16:30
Our (lack of) attack is winning them the game.

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:30
Same old issues. A few seconds in possession and then we lose it.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:31
This is terrible / decision making absolutely awful. Why are we flinging it around like it’s a sevens game

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 16:31
It’s our lack of brain cells that losing this game. If there was ever a game to keep it tight and do it inch by inch this is it.

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
31/08/2020 16:31
Bath seem to be reverting to dozy play , no plan B or C Wasps loving uncontested scrums !
16-20

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:32
And again. Comical.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:33
Can anyone tell me why we are not hammering it off field to pressure their line out? Who is leading on field?

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 16:34
Why was McNally pinged for offside by the lady touch judge earlier. He was nowhere near the ball and got back onside again. Pedantic.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:34
Just moronic now

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:35
Can we control the ball for longer than five seconds? I think not.

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:36
Tearing my hair out here

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:40
Good thing we got a penalty cause we just lost the ball again after one carry

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:42
Simple rugby...

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

9215
9215
31/08/2020 16:43
23-20 driving maul try

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:48
HOLD ONTO THE F-ING BALL

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:50
Chronic inability to look after the ball and keep it simple has killed us

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

9215
9215
31/08/2020 16:51
23-27 Penalty try and Underhill in the bin for bringing down the maul

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:52
Oh look, we lost the ball after one carry. Wakey wakey Dorset Boy

9215
9215
31/08/2020 16:53
Seems like we lose out because we still managed to score when they pulled ours down

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
31/08/2020 16:53
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Chronic inability to look after the ball and keep it simple has killed us

Seems to be in our DNA ! Sadly

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
Toast and Marmite
31/08/2020 16:55
Shabby and I’ll disciplined. Lots to work on

"No sprinkles. For every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you."

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 16:56
Awful. Same old rubbish.

ken_jnr
ken_jnr
31/08/2020 16:57
Our attack is a complete shambles. No excuses about it being a second choice backline or backrow this week.

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
31/08/2020 16:58
Back to Square -1 !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

dcsh
dcsh
31/08/2020 16:59
So uncontested scrums but they stayed at 15 men, I thought they had to go down to 14 when they couldn’t field a fully functional front row?

opti
Optimist
31/08/2020 17:00
Back to our worst.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 17:01
I reckon Barnes has completely done us at the end there. He guessed at the penalty that gave the 10m line out and then was keen as mustard to yellow card Underhill for exactly the same offence that the wasps back row had just committed. With a bit of empathy he’d have realised the game changing poor decision he’d just made and kept his card in his pocket.

9215
9215
31/08/2020 17:01
Quote:
dcsh
So uncontested scrums but they stayed at 15 men, I thought they had to go down to 14 when they couldn’t field a fully functional front row?

It was different because it was a head injury apparently

Old Bath Tub
Old Bath Tub
31/08/2020 17:02
Quote:
dcsh
So uncontested scrums but they stayed at 15 men, I thought they had to go down to 14 when they couldn’t field a fully functional front row?

Yes I thought that was what Wayne was telling them, then I didn’t think he did us many favours today but our own faults for losing it.

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

MESSAGES->author
hasta
31/08/2020 17:03
Ignoring the brainlessness of the rest of the game, Three uncontested scrums 5m from the line and we can't manufacture a try. This is a coaching problem. Either Dempsey has to go or Hooper has to take accountability for it.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 17:04
Wasps are more incisive in attack but in a proper game with contested scrums I reckon our front row and our bench front row would have won that for us. Some poor decisions and a desire to play a more open game than we needed to have cost us. Can’t fault the effort though. Onwards and upwards.

dcsh
dcsh
31/08/2020 17:04
Quote:
9215
Quote:
dcsh
So uncontested scrums but they stayed at 15 men, I thought they had to go down to 14 when they couldn’t field a fully functional front row?

It was different because it was a head injury apparently
I thought that was only for the duration of the HIA, after it was (presumably) failed, shouldn’t they have gone down to 14.

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 17:05
Can we put two good games together consecutively?

I’m not counting London Irish and the Tigers 3rds.

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 17:07
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Quote:
Toast and Marmite
Chronic inability to look after the ball and keep it simple has killed us

Seems to be in our DNA ! Sadly

About time some people on here realise that THAT is our Achilles heal.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 17:08
Quote:
ballsout
Awful. Same old rubbish.

You must be delighted Ballout. Never hear a peep from you when things go well. If you think this is ‘same old rubbish’ then you know absolutely nothing about the game. Many on ere are so frustrated that they’re kicking the cat but you don’t here them trot out the same negative platitudes.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 17:13
Quote:
hasta
Ignoring the brainlessness of the rest of the game, Three uncontested scrums 5m from the line and we can't manufacture a try. This is a coaching problem. Either Dempsey has to go or Hooper has to take accountability for it.

Surely it more difficult to score from 5m with an uncontested scrum ? I’d be more concerned with 3 contested scrums and no score. I think in the cold light of day we’ll realise Wasps defence and breakdown work were hugely impressive.

Hymenoptera
Hymenoptera
31/08/2020 17:13
You should have kicked Wasps off the park all second half and line-out'd your way to victory. Wasps down to bare bones yet the 9-10 controlled the game better than Barf's, that and apparent greater team spirit was just enough. You wont get a better opportunity for a win than that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:17:16:11 by Hymenoptera.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
31/08/2020 17:14
Oh dear sounds like it’s 1 step forward and 3 back?

Do we need to call a taxi for Dempsey or were their signs of an attacking plan for the backs?

Long Term
Long Term
31/08/2020 17:15
uncontested scrums did for us. Mercer had one of his worst games for a long time, tapping and going himself from penalty near their line cost us, Willis hell of a player mind. Preistland's weak distribution and lack of killer pass shown up when unable to fulfil main role of slotting penalties from scrum penalties. Wasps are a decent side. In conclusion I am not going to through toys out of the pram because we lost narrowly, now waiting to be accused of having rose tinted spectacles.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 17:15
Quote:
Hymenoptera
Quote:
Beergoggles
I reckon Barnes has completely done us at the end there. He guessed at the penalty that gave the 10m line out and then was keen as mustard to yellow card Underhill for exactly the same offence that the wasps back row had just committed. With a bit of empathy he’d have realised the game changing poor decision he’d just made and kept his card in his pocket.

Done yourselves mate. You should have kicked Wasps off the park all second half and line-out'd your way to victory. Wasps down to bare bones yet the 9-10 controlled the game better than Barf', that and apparent greater team spirit was just enough it seems. You get a better opportunity for a win than that!

We all know that. Thanks for your contribution.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
31/08/2020 17:19
Quote:
Beergoggles
Wasps are more incisive in attack but in a proper game with contested scrums I reckon our front row and our bench front row would have won that for us. Some poor decisions and a desire to play a more open game than we needed to have cost us. Can’t fault the effort though. Onwards and upwards.

...agree, the silver lining for Wasps to their injury woes was that it took away the Bath advantage and meant that it was attack vs attack, where Wasps have the edge. Some poor decision making resulted in the hold ups, I really think that one extra pass makes the difference. Personally I am not too bothered if bath make the top 4 or not, they would get humped by Exe...but have you ever seen a player who has fallen as far as Taulupe Faletau? Our back row on paper had parity but were comprehensively outplayed today and not for the first time - Zach isn't a 6 and TF is a shadow of his former self. Sam U can't do it all. Disappointing, but my £100 winnings demonstrate that its not surprising (cheers for the tip Clarkey!).

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
31/08/2020 17:21
Quote:
OutsideBath
Oh dear sounds like it’s 1 step forward and 3 back?
Do we need to call a taxi for Dempsey or were their signs of an attacking plan for the backs?

If you are interested then maybe watch the game? We aren't your P.As.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
31/08/2020 17:24
Very very poor. Dumb stupid play from 3 attacking scrums close to their line, cannot touch the ball down, missing 2 tries and, as BO says, do they ever practice handling and keeping hold of the ball? Wingers over running the full back, poor tackling and alignment in the backs, what does Dempsey do all day? Why didn't we stop Jack Willis from winning or contesting the breakdown every time and we were knocked off the ball and as usual, never can win an arm wrestle.

If Wasps had not have those injuries, I dread to think what the scoreboard would have read.

Now, Quins away is an absolutely Must win game. Now Bath go away and do some meaningful catching, passing and ball retention and work out some backs moves.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
31/08/2020 17:24
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
OutsideBath
Oh dear sounds like it’s 1 step forward and 3 back?
Do we need to call a taxi for Dempsey or were their signs of an attacking plan for the backs?

If you are interested then maybe watch the game? We aren't your P.As.

Well I’ll give you my polite response, suggest you put your dummy back in your mouth, was only asking a question.

ballsout
ballsout
31/08/2020 17:29
When we can’t scrum for penalties our game falls apart. Great work coaches.

Our total, utter lack of ball control is getting humiliating. So, so, so bad. And it never improves.

MESSAGES->author
Clarkey3k
31/08/2020 17:32
What a massive fail that was, still stunned by our inept game management e.g. Mercer tap and go penalty, should have been a 3pt kick; RP wild pass to TdG that led to their try. Just when composure was required we lost it. We are still in the mix but have just made it much harder for ourselves. What a shocker!! I wish I'd had a punt on Wasps now - good decision to hedge your bets BM53...

Adopted players: 2020/21 A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

dr.bath1865
dr.bath1865
31/08/2020 17:36
Ooooh no. Not only was that a disappointing game of rugby but now we’ve all got bo to put up with too!

Thought we were limited and our game management was pretty naive although Willis, Shields and Launchbury were absolutely superb. Fair play to Wasps.

Still unsure about this uncontested scrum rule. Shouldn’t they have played with 14? Anyway the bigger problem for us that without a dominant scrum to rally around, we lacked a focus. Also it meant that Willis etc could just roam around turning the ball over rather than getting tired and bogged down.

Disappointing but, like Matt, not sure if I fancied finishing 4th anyway!

Hymenoptera
Hymenoptera
31/08/2020 17:48
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
Hymenoptera
Quote:
Beergoggles
I reckon Barnes has completely done us at the end there. He guessed at the penalty that gave the 10m line out and then was keen as mustard to yellow card Underhill for exactly the same offence that the wasps back row had just committed. With a bit of empathy he’d have realised the game changing poor decision he’d just made and kept his card in his pocket.

Done yourselves mate. You should have kicked Wasps off the park all second half and line-out'd your way to victory. Wasps down to bare bones yet the 9-10 controlled the game better than Barf', that and apparent greater team spirit was just enough it seems. You get a better opportunity for a win than that!

We all know that. Thanks for your contribution.

You didn't know it in your initial post, Barnes did you apparently! Your welcome BTW.
Lets be clear, I was exchanged rugby chat not having a dig...chill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:17:51:46 by Hymenoptera.

Deckchair
Deckchair
31/08/2020 17:53
Uncontested scrums a blow to Bath. Robson wiped Spencer in the scrum half stakes. Wasps great defence and at the breakdown. Weird how injuries can motivate and shake a team's thinking and strategy. Bath failed to take advantage of good field position and opportunity when they got it and didn't play a good territory game. Underhill sin bin a coffin nail.
A Wasps win a fair result - Bath lack of consistency, ball retention and some weak tackling let Wasps back in. Wasps also thought sharper on the pitch and their tap and go penalties and counter attacking were more effective and successful than Baths. We still seem to get weaker over 80 minutes while others keep strong to the whistle.
V disappointing. But still a lot better than where we were six months ago.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 18:02
Agree with ' Long Term ' Mercer had a poor one, decision making rubbish always going sideways.

After the first half muck up, why didn't Ewells or Spencer or Priestland just kick the pen or take a drop goal.

Faletau looks completely lost, as a Lion he should be leading and as for Priestland running back into the pack with a full set of backs outside him. (Sm164)

Willis is England quality, Sam won't get picked for England nor TF for Wales till they suss out the breakdown. The new laws are a mystery to Bath I'm affraid.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

dannyf2
dannyf2
31/08/2020 18:20
Such an irritating one.
Going to uncontested was very annoying, given that their coaches said that the replacement prop could hook. Screwed us.
Barnes' refereeing of the breakdown boggled my mind - I couldn't work out anything consistent at all. When are you allowed to compete and when not? I just don't get it.
Those gripes aside, we still should've won. I hoped we had erased the cluster-farting, but it was back with a vengeance - so many rubbish errors. We didn't capitalise on their weak line out and were impotent in the red zone.
Not the end of the world, but really disappointed to see us slip back to old ways today.
Must be better for quins.
COYB

Ali1969
Ali1969
31/08/2020 18:33
Haven't watched the game yet. Have heard via BBC that Wasps LHP was capable of playing hooker and Wasps coaches informed the officials that he could and would be switching but the player refused.

Whilst the player quite rightly should have the final say you cannot help but think that is a tactical call made on the field. Take away their greatest threat.

Questions will need to be addressed as to why the coaches believed and informed the officials that West would be able to play hooker only for the player to then refuse,.

This does not detract from what appears to be a classic abhorrent Bath FC performance but is a question of sportsmanship.

charlieboa
charlieboa
31/08/2020 18:37
Totally inept performance. Staggering inability to adapt and grind them into the dust by working the touchlines and mauling. Also didnt seem to compete at lineouts when they were going to the jumpers knees/waists. Wasps must have been delighted at out generosity.

Our lack of onfield leadership and decision making is worrying (goes much much wider than ewels) but also the off field decision making seemed v formulaic- sure there were reasons for it but why keep two huge scrummaging props on for so long when uncontested.

Uncontested clearly favoured them but Wasps were fully deserving of the win, look a more rounded team. Have adapted to rule interpretations better, dominated the breakdown, adapted on the day better and had all the stand out performances.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
31/08/2020 18:41
Sounds like Wasps have demonstrated it doesn’t take long to turn things around and build a good team if you get the coaching setup right.

ukms
ukms
31/08/2020 18:41
Quote:
Ali1969
Haven't watched the game yet. Have heard via BBC that Wasps LHP was capable of playing hooker and Wasps coaches informed the officials that he could and would be switching but the player refused.
Whilst the player quite rightly should have the final say you cannot help but think that is a tactical call made on the field. Take away their greatest threat.

Questions will need to be addressed as to why the coaches believed and informed the officials that West would be able to play hooker only for the player to then refuse,.

This does not detract from what appears to be a classic abhorrent Bath FC performance but is a question of sportsmanship.

He last played hooker 3 years ago and as you say the player has the last say ....... personally cant see any issue with sportsmanship ? Watch it back and put what was discussed in context you'll possibly change your mind

Ali1969
Ali1969
31/08/2020 18:46
UKMS as I said I haven't seen the game yet and have only read the BBC take -, totally understand your comment however it is strange why your coaches believe HE would be playing hooker . They put the player in an uncomfortable position which is why I stated rightly the player has the final say.

9215
9215
31/08/2020 19:18
Quote:
Ali1969
Whilst the player quite rightly should have the final say you cannot help but think that is a tactical call made on the field. Take away their greatest threat.

I did wonder about that but if it were a tactical call I’d have expected the coaches to make it rather than the player

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 19:19
Must thank the club for neglecting to send me the access code as it sounds like a rather tense, frustrating and ultimately disappointing affair. The Wasps HIA that led to uncontested scrums. Given Wasps' previous in this I must ask, was blood gushing from an open wound or did he simply emerge from a ruck rubbing his head, looking a bit dizzy and saying 'Wibble'? (Just asking!).

MESSAGES->author
hasta
31/08/2020 19:21
As soon as the player was told, he was clearly not happy about it. Right call by Barnes who double checked. Didn't help us, not the reason we lost. If only, somehow, we could have known that Wasps would target the breakdown...

ukms
ukms
31/08/2020 19:37
Quote:
TomReagan
Must thank the club for neglecting to send me the access code as it sounds like a rather tense, frustrating and ultimately disappointing affair. The Wasps HIA that led to uncontested scrums. Given Wasps' previous in this I must ask, was blood gushing from an open wound or did he simply emerge from a ruck rubbing his head, looking a bit dizzy and saying 'Wibble'? (Just asking!).

He was knocked out

MESSAGES->author
hasta
31/08/2020 19:40
I know Wasps have a lot of previous on this, but this was clearly an example of misfortune from their side and the coaching team were trying to keep scrums contested.

Our incompetence at exploiting their subsequent lineout woes was entirely on us.

9215
9215
31/08/2020 19:43
Whilst I wasn’t too impressed with today’s performance, I’m fairly happy with 15 points from 4 games

John Tee
John Tee
31/08/2020 19:43
The uncontested scrum came about because of an injury in a tackle....there was no reason they needed uncontested scrums at that point and he was playing very well.
Hardly an advantage when they had no recognised thrower but Bath failed to make their advantage there count.

Not much use having a dominant pack and England backs if they dont get the ball.
Watson is wasted...

Wasps held out and that was a huge game for them but they shouldn't have had that opportunity.

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 20:50
Quote:
ukms
Quote:
TomReagan
Must thank the club for neglecting to send me the access code as it sounds like a rather tense, frustrating and ultimately disappointing affair. The Wasps HIA that led to uncontested scrums. Given Wasps' previous in this I must ask, was blood gushing from an open wound or did he simply emerge from a ruck rubbing his head, looking a bit dizzy and saying 'Wibble'? (Just asking!).

He was knocked out
Cheers. Was just joking you know!

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
31/08/2020 20:55
Quote:
dannyf2
Barnes' refereeing of the breakdown boggled my mind - I couldn't work out anything consistent at all. When are you allowed to compete and when not? I just don't get it.

You're far from alone and not only was it poorly refereed it was inconsistently refereed. Given Barnes is one of the best referees out there I just don't get it.

I think the main thing you can learn from Wasps is that if you've paid for superstars and they're not cutting it stop chasing the loss by continuing to play them. Stick Faletau and Priestland in the reserves you must have options who are worth investing game time in there over those two?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 20:59
Quote:
OldMarovian
Stick Faletau and Priestland in the reserves you must have options who are worth investing game time in there over those two?

Inclined to agree but problem is we don't Really have a reserve for Priestland. One reserve we missed I thought was Baylis in the back row. Mercer, Faletau and Underhill doesn't work!

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 21:16
Tom Ellis is an incredibly consistent performer and far more effective than TF. Perhaps he was injured?

gaz59
gaz59
31/08/2020 21:18
What was the Boyce penalty for? The one that led to the lineout and then their try at the close

To me, a dim ex-back, it looked like he was simply driving through and over the ball but obviously I missed something

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 21:22
Quote:
TomReagan
Tom Ellis is an incredibly consistent performer and far more effective than TF. Perhaps he was injured?

Yep, I agree I forgot about him! TF looks like he is scared of injuring himself.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:08:31:21:24:16 by shipwrecked.

dannyf2
dannyf2
31/08/2020 21:25
Quote:
John Tee
The uncontested scrum came about because of an injury in a tackle....there was no reason they needed uncontested scrums at that point and he was playing very well.
Hardly an advantage when they had no recognised thrower but Bath failed to make their advantage there count.

Not much use having a dominant pack and England backs if they dont get the ball.
Watson is wasted...

Wasps held out and that was a huge game for them but they shouldn't have had that opportunity.

In the second half Watson was given a clear 1 on 1 with the full back and carried straight in to the tackle, as I recall. He didn't really run any ball back either. JJ was very quiet in attack again. Both chucked sloppy passes.
Our England backs would probably do better with a more adventurous fly half, but they have to take some responsibility too.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 21:26
Strikes me if we intend to ply a limited 10 man game then we need a great big lump at 8 to give us go forward ball, a la Zac or Leroy. Neither TF or Mercer cut the mustard in this regard.

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
31/08/2020 21:34
Quote:
gaz59
What was the Boyce penalty for? The one that led to the lineout and then their try at the close
To me, a dim ex-back, it looked like he was simply driving through and over the ball but obviously I missed something

Apparently it was ‘playing the 9’ ... although Barnes then acknowledged that the player Boyce took out may not have been the 9 and that the decision ‘could have been seen either way’. Thanks Wayne !

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 21:39
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
gaz59
What was the Boyce penalty for? The one that led to the lineout and then their try at the close
To me, a dim ex-back, it looked like he was simply driving through and over the ball but obviously I missed something

Apparently it was ‘playing the 9’ ... although Barnes then acknowledged that the player Boyce took out may not have been the 9 and that the decision ‘could have been seen either way’. Thanks Wayne !

I don't understand why WB is held in such esteem, he makes stuff up then pretends it's 'the new interpretation'. Seems to be a TV consultant using players first names like mates, just seems all wrong commenting of clubs performances when his is a current ref.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

annie blackthorn
annie blackthorn
31/08/2020 22:04
Tried to plough through all the endless criticisms above.
All I know is that for the first time for I don't know how many seasons, I didn't feel embarrassed to be a Bath supporter.

Okay, so they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but it was close. Thought Barnes did his usual job - p.s. he isn't the only Referee to first name players these days. IMVHO rather unprofessional but there you go ………………….

TomReagan
TomReagan
31/08/2020 22:25
I find it a bit strange and 'pally', but as even the players half the time can't make sense of the laws they have to be talked through things, eg when they can and can't play the ball/when a maul becomes a tackle etc. Refs have to communicate, so if they're shouting 'Smith, leave it' they'll sound a bit bossy like some 1970's teacher, so they all go for the friendly, collaborative approach which sort of makes sense.

opti
Optimist
31/08/2020 22:35
If there were bonus points for being held up over the line I suspect we would be very near the top.

It’s incredible the amount of misfortune Wasps suffered - 3 players off injured in short time, Bath’s 10 point start, and yet they adapted and we were incapable of rethinking any aspect of our game. Very, very disappointing day that. Eddie won’t have been impressed with Ewels losing the ball on their line, or by his lack of improvisation.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
31/08/2020 22:41
Quote:
Optimist
If there were bonus points for being held up over the line I suspect we would be very near the top.
It’s incredible the amount of misfortune Wasps suffered - 3 players off injured in short time, Bath’s 10 point start, and yet they adapted and we were incapable of rethinking any aspect of our game. Very, very disappointing day that. Eddie won’t have been impressed with Ewels losing the ball on their line, or by his lack of improvisation.

I don't think Eddie would have been impressed with any of the Bath Internationals to be realistic thumbs up, on the other hand Robson, thumbs down Willis. thumbs down

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
31/08/2020 22:45
Faletau looks half the player he was a season or so ago and Watson is off the pace as well. I would expect an England winger when in the clear against a retreating defence to make more of the opportunity he had. Why didn't he pin his ears back and go for the corner, but no he cut back inside and hit buried.

I would drop TF and see if that motivates him into action.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

warrenball
warrenball
31/08/2020 23:00
Very disappointing, a game we should have won, more worrying is that the Quins back row next week are also very good at the breakdown. Just brought home how much of a gap there is still between Bath and the top teams (or even Bath and Exeter 2nds)

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
31/08/2020 23:12
I'm always concerned when we play teams with two 7's, especially one who gets the 'latitude' that Willis does. Who cares if it's fair or not, you've got to adjust. We didn't and we started making decisions for Barnes (who did have a bad game).

We going to get it again next weekend. It was slightly surprising how unprepared we were this week but there are no excuses for next (ok, this) week.

Agree with the above. Faletau and Watson look like shadows of themselves. Priestland seems to be lacking confidence and Im always filled with a sense of dread for the rest of the game when he has a kick charged down.

And that's not to mention, Exeter's trick: Do not keep the ball if you can't ground it - a ruck on the tryline is infinitely more valuable.

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
31/08/2020 23:18
P.S. Do the BT Sport sound crew have an 'open air' stadium mode. Thought the shouting of the non-playing staff was louder than the 'simulated' ones.

John Tee
John Tee
01/09/2020 00:28
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
gaz59
What was the Boyce penalty for? The one that led to the lineout and then their try at the close
To me, a dim ex-back, it looked like he was simply driving through and over the ball but obviously I missed something

Apparently it was ‘playing the 9’ ... although Barnes then acknowledged that the player Boyce took out may not have been the 9 and that the decision ‘could have been seen either way’. Thanks Wayne !

On the replay, he definitely took the player who could scrum the ball out...

I think Bath lost through lack of ambition and the 9 and 10 battle was won decisively by Wasps.
Wasnt impressed by Spencer or Preistland, tbh.

Danchinho
Danchinho
01/09/2020 00:31
Our attack was largely one pass to a forward who ran a couple of yards and got tackled. It can be effective, especially near the try line. Half way line, not so much. We do seem to be almost incapable of recognising or creating space/overlap on the outside. Other teams can do it to us but we just don’t seem to know how ourselves. Bit baffling tbh.
Also, could not figure out how we didn’t compete properly on their line out once their hookers were off. Seemed strange to be so passive in that situation.
As shipwrecked said above, I also thought Faletau looked like he didn’t want to get himself injured. ZM is a better 8 for Bath.
Close game but we were beaten by a better rugby team. C’est la guerre.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 00:36
Quote:
John Tee
On the replay, he definitely took the player who could scrum the ball out...

What????

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

John Tee
John Tee
01/09/2020 00:37
I like the new policing of the breakdown....the defender just needs to get a decent tug on the ball and as long as his teamates dont flop on anyone, it will very quickly be called a turnover/pen. Players have got way too used to not releasing so the ability to lift is enough to get the ball awarded back.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
01/09/2020 07:44
Ewels drops the ball (wonderful ball retention) trying to go over the try line, and about 30 seconds later, they are nearly under our posts scoring a penalty try. Our handling is dire, especially when up against a press defence, and because of our lack of speed or wind, we never get enough around the ball carrier in support.

On that showing, I would swop the Watson brothers, elder brother looked sharp, quick and motivated.

As someone else said, we could do worse as we are not going to get relegated this season, and throw some of the youngsters in like Bailey, Green, Redpath, Hamer Webb, Reid, DeGlanville, Ellis, Bayliss, Fox and forget the superstars until they show that they are capable of winning a game. Players of their experience should be taking tight games by the scruff of the neck, even allowing for the apparent non coaching and any sort of coherent plan of attack. Let the youngsters who at least appear hungry, even if a little green, have the experience and wanting to play and pull on the BB & W.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

ballsout
ballsout
01/09/2020 07:56
Quote:
Bathovalballer
Why didn't he pin his ears back and go for the corner, but no he cut back inside and hit buried.

He was sticking to the "processes". Criminal how little we bring him, Joseph and McConochie into the game.

Quote:
Bathovalballer
Ewels drops the ball (wonderful ball retention) trying to go over the try line, and about 30 seconds later, they are nearly under our posts scoring a penalty try. Our handling is dire, especially when up against a press defence, and because of our lack of speed or wind, we never get enough around the ball carrier in support.

Our ability to go from coughing up attacking ball in their 22, to defending our try-line all within the space of 30 seconds is legendary.

Dumb, one dimensional with terrible handling and ball control. And they wonder why this club never achieves anything.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
01/09/2020 08:02
In respect of youngsters and ex Bath Academy players, I see Rory Jennings has come in for big praise from Geordan Murphy after being signed on loan from Coventry. Says he is keen and hard working and adds to the squad.

Also Wolstenholme, of this parish once, scores 3 tries for Saracens. Why couldn't our coaches get that out of young people? Again, I have to agree in part with BO, it cannot be all the players fault , so must be down to the coaches who are either clueless or lack sufficient experience at the highest level. That has always been my problem with Hooper. He has never won anything of significance or continually performed at the highest level. Monday was a classic case of we needed to change things at half time as Wasps had the momentum, and new tactics were called for. Eg take every lineout we could as they had no recognised thrower in. He may be a decent bloke, but should not be in the job and the fault lies with those who appointed him. Nice men don't win anything. You need battle hardened guys like Lam, McCall, Diamond or even Gustard.

In fact, I wonder how Dai Young would fit in at Bath? I believe he might be free.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

TomReagan
TomReagan
01/09/2020 09:17
To be fair, we had different coaches when Woolstencroft was here. Also, the failure to adapt yesterday-if a coach has to be blamed rather than experienced players, then it's Hatley, not Hooper, who seems to be the fall guy despite not being the coach!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 09:29
I'm not sure throwing youngsters into the mix is a good idea, they need exposure and experience. GHW made a couple of mistakes and TdG threw a wild pass trying to keep the game alive that lead to points for them.
That game was not typical, there were horrendous goofs and masses to learn but wholesale change is simply impossible in the current game calendar as you can't keep the same team from one match to the next.

Hatley needs to address the back row turnover situation in my view, it too light and needs a ball carrier. Mercer, Faletau and Underhill gave us no go forward at all.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01/09/2020 09:32
BOB, Rory Jennings is hardly going to oust George Ford. He will be a waterboy at Tigers I'm afraid. He was unlucky with a huge amount of injuries when he was in the Bath academy, but on the couple of occasions that he did play at the Rec I didn't think that he was worth a contract tbh.

For Wolstenholme I assume you mean Wolstencroft? He would be very much 3rd choice at Sarries if they hadn't gone down. He was at London Irish for a while and didn't do much there either - I think that he is flattered by the likes of Itoje and Billy V around him notwithstanding the fact that Irish are just woeful. I wouldn't have him over Dunn or Walker tbh.

I always find it amusing that players suddenly turn into supermen as soon as they leave Bath, ignoring the likes of Obano etc who developed at Bath.

No, the main issue for me is not personnel, its Dempsey creating one of the most toothless attacking strategies in the league with one of the best sets of backs in the league.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

ballsout
ballsout
01/09/2020 09:36
It's Hooper's head down process-driven gameplan and Hatley's scrum for penalties gameplan that's rendered our attack toothless. They should shoulder equal responsibility.

Ali1969
Ali1969
01/09/2020 09:39
Ok have manage to watch it through squinted eyes and temper tantrums:

1. As for my previous comments about the events leading to uncontested scrums - It is clear from the footage from BT that the Wasps Scrummage coach was adamant that West has and could perform at Hooker!!! Matter of fact, this is not something a coach would say unless he had witnessed this in training!!! A coach would never put a player at harm - Barnes then asks West who initially appeared to accept this then and this is the important part - he clearly has instructions from someone to his left and he clearly turns his head towards that player and then all of a sudden he declines and then smiles at Dunn...I am sorry this shows a clear and obvious tactical and deliberate decision - this was nothing to do with a player not wanting to play at the position - I don't blame Wasps it was clearly our primary weapon, you would have expected us to have planned for a situation such as this - I even heard on a podcast somewhere prior to the game that a pundit said it would be good for Wasps to get uncontested scrums, so I am sure Hately & Lilley would have been aware that Wasps would be trying something to disrupt the scrums one way or another?

2. Our attack - just don't understand how we can be so blunt - there just appears to be no dynastism or creative element anywhere - Wasps gave us a lesson in how to use the ball, just clueless....How/Why - before anti Rhys people start it is not just down to our 10 it is right across the backline - Joseph, Watson both looked ponderous.

I just sat there and could see no correlation between the performance during the week and this one - it just appeared that the abolition of scrums seemed to completely and utterly confuse us to the point we didn't know how to play.

I have to say I thought Barnes refereeing left a lot to be desired and he was inconsistent - particularly over the scrum fiasco - but to be fair it comes down to the player and if the player states he is not willing to play in that position that is it....how it came to that decision is another matter - but his overall performance was very poor, perhaps a consequence of his increasing time as a pundit. Time to call it a day Wayne??

Overall assessment - Very Very poor....Unfortunately typical Bath an inability to back up a good performance with another....naïve and inept are other analogies' which come to mind. Interesting Kay, Monye and Bayfield post game talked about Wasps team spirit and between the lines questioning Bath's team spirit, hunger and attitude. Plenty for the leadership group to ponder about before a trip to Quins who looked hungry and based on our performance yesterday will be licking their lips to rip into us.

To end on a positive 15 points out of a possible 20 points - I think we would have all taken that at the start of this resumption.

Long Term
Long Term
01/09/2020 09:39
I don't think one can underestimate the importance of a dominant scrum to Bath's current style of play, and potential success, with that taken away we were at a big disadvantage, Willis was huge for Wasps and key at the breakdown, he made the difference being able to roam at will not being tied down and expending energy behind an active (struggling) scrummage.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01/09/2020 09:47
Quote:
ballsout
It's Hooper's head down process-driven gameplan and Hatley's scrum for penalties gameplan that's rendered our attack toothless. They should shoulder equal responsibility.

I don't agree - the players from Spencer backwards got the ball plenty of times and did zip with it. We have an attack coach and we have an impotent attack. That shouldn't preclude having a dominant pack - Exeter and Saracens manage it fine.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 09:49
On the Willis performance I do think Barnes made him look better by his interpretation. Dangling your arms over then complaining you can't get the ball was almost instantaneous. For sealing off to be a thing you have to stay there, there was no time for our players to react before the whistle went.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

ballsout
ballsout
01/09/2020 09:51
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
ballsout
It's Hooper's head down process-driven gameplan and Hatley's scrum for penalties gameplan that's rendered our attack toothless. They should shoulder equal responsibility.

I don't agree - the players from Spencer backwards got the ball plenty of times and did zip with it. We have an attack coach and we have an impotent attack. That shouldn't preclude having a dominant pack - Exeter and Saracens manage it fine.

Hooper wants safety-first rugby, attack isn't the priority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:01:09:58:41 by ballsout.

ballsout
ballsout
01/09/2020 09:58
Quote:
Ali1969
1. As for my previous comments about the events leading to uncontested scrums - It is clear from the footage from BT that the Wasps Scrummage coach was adamant that West has and could perform at Hooker!!! Matter of fact, this is not something a coach would say unless he had witnessed this in training!!! A coach would never put a player at harm - Barnes then asks West who initially appeared to accept this then and this is the important part - he clearly has instructions from someone to his left and he clearly turns his head towards that player and then all of a sudden he declines and then smiles at Dunn...I am sorry this shows a clear and obvious tactical and deliberate decision - this was nothing to do with a player not wanting to play at the position - I don't blame Wasps it was clearly our primary weapon, you would have expected us to have planned for a situation such as this - I even heard on a podcast somewhere prior to the game that a pundit said it would be good for Wasps to get uncontested scrums, so I am sure Hately & Lilley would have been aware that Wasps would be trying something to disrupt the scrums one way or another?

That was the team manager, not their scrum coach. You're right West seemed to have a sly look to a team-mate then suddenly U-turn, but he's within his right to do that.


Quote:
I just sat there and could see no correlation between the performance during the week and this one - it just appeared that the abolition of scrums seemed to completely and utterly confuse us to the point we didn't know how to play.

What performance during the week? The scrum was all we offered in attack at Northampton, and same thing here, we just couldn't use it. We're the most one dimensional team in the league, that much is obvious.

Quote:
Unfortunately typical Bath an inability to back up a good performance with another

That's certainly true, it's once in a blue moon where we back up one good performance with another. If we'd beaten Wasps I would have started to agree we may have turned a corner and finally moving forward, silly me.

Quote:
Interesting Kay, Monye and Bayfield post game talked about Wasps team spirit and between the lines questioning Bath's team spirit, hunger and attitude.

I think there's plenty of hunger and desire... team spirit though... I don't think so.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 10:08
Have to say Ewels on field tactical decisions were poor, I'd be inclined to give it to Spencer over Mercer or Ewels. I do think Orlando Bailey should be on the bench as well. Umaga's really developing with game time. He is only just 22.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01/09/2020 10:13
Been away missed all but one game. Sounds like reading here and press that the fundamental problems from the last few seasons have not been addressed, except the scrum.

Despite this very much looking forward to watching quins match.

Disunited
Disunited
01/09/2020 10:16
Always good to hold fire for a while after a disappointing outcome. Lots of the previous comments are valid but overall doesn't it come back again to game management. With 10 minutes to go, 3 points to the good and the Buzz having no specialist line out thrower why not just keep putting the ball in touch in their 22? Still, as said previously stated, 15 points from 4 games is above par in my book.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01/09/2020 10:20
Quote:
Disunited
and the Buzz having no specialist line out thrower why not just keep putting the ball in touch in their 22?

...apart from the fact that we didn't actually contest most of the ones they had. That was just odd.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

bardofavon
bardofavon
01/09/2020 10:29
we lost it when they gamed the scrum. their mobile back row then had a field day. blackett claimed wasps had scrum ascendancy and it is true they did nail us once or twice. but our front row bench resources were far better than theirs and there is no doubt in my mind that we would have turned the screw as the game progressed. with no contested scrummage their mobile back row had a field day, detaching early.
jack willis has turned himself into Richie mccaw over night. in from the side, leaning on prostrate players to support his weight, flopping over the ball and crying foul. typically the refs are now only looking for the jackal 'lift' and have forgotten to police the rest of the ruck.
our back row was outplayed. Faletau is no longer worth his place in the side. I am starting to worry about Zac, too. since putting on weight he appears sluggish. whenever he got the ball, rather than carrying through he always stopped, tried to put on some footwork and then went to ground, thus destroying any forward momentum we might have had. his handling has been uncharacteristically poor in recent games too. Ewels' hands have always been poor (though not as bad as matt Garvey's). you don't want Charlie anywhere near the ball when you are trying to force it over the line.
their half backs were better than ours. they've always had a superior running game to us. what blackett has done is to attend to wasps' shortcomings: weak defence and toothless pack. hooper has not done the same. yes he has beefed up our set piece but done nothing about our poor back play. we STILL don't have a decent 10 and I'm sad to say that dempsey has been worse than useless. I had big expectations there.
this game shows us that we are a long way off top two standard. we may still sneak a top 4 but I can't see us going further than that. we need more than just a good scrum.

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 10:33
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Disunited
and the Buzz having no specialist line out thrower why not just keep putting the ball in touch in their 22?

...apart from the fact that we didn't actually contest most of the ones they had. That was just odd.

Part of our tactical decision perhaps Matt, we went for 'un contested line outs' the leadership seems too passive for me. Wasps out played us by taking quick throw ins repetedly so they knew it was a big issue for them.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
01/09/2020 10:48
Quote:
Bardofavon
hooper has not done the same. yes he has beefed up our set piece but done nothing about our poor back play. we STILL don't have a decent 10 and I'm sad to say that dempsey has been worse than useless. I had big expectations there.

I'm a little worried about out backs, RP isn't one to get the backs going but no-one is running supporting lines in attack, you would expect that of JJ and AW. JJ is always stationary when he gets the ball and just does the wiggly hips thing. It would be nice so see him cutting back at pace once in a while.
Also why do our backs overrun the ball?

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

John Tee
John Tee
01/09/2020 11:02
My take, Bath have a heavy set of forwards who get some sort of go forward. This should mean you are in the game..but it is not enough on its own.
If the forwards are providing a reasonable platform, you expect your backs to have a say. 9 and 10 offered nothing. You have good open field runners and they never get to run.
Wasps and Glaws are much more proactive, for example.

If you are going to stick it up your jumper, make sure you get results ..as Chiefs do.


I must say i far prefer the expansive game so i prefer rewards from fast open attacking play but rugby doesnt encourange that, imv, and too many coaches dont trust it because they dont understand it....and and ex players didnt very likely come anywhere near their mind set.

For me the best sight in rugby is a front row getting a 30 mtr carry..
or a try from 10. lol

kingofthehill
KingoftheHill
01/09/2020 11:04
Quote:
shipwrecked
Quote:
Beergoggles
Quote:
gaz59
What was the Boyce penalty for? The one that led to the lineout and then their try at the close
To me, a dim ex-back, it looked like he was simply driving through and over the ball but obviously I missed something

Apparently it was ‘playing the 9’ ... although Barnes then acknowledged that the player Boyce took out may not have been the 9 and that the decision ‘could have been seen either way’. Thanks Wayne !

I don't understand why WB is held in such esteem, he makes stuff up then pretends it's 'the new interpretation'. Seems to be a TV consultant using players first names like mates, just seems all wrong commenting of clubs performances when his is a current ref.

Completely agree. I don't know why he is allowed as a pundit at games - hes not just providing technical expertise on decisions / laws but was also eulogising over players performances at the Bris / Sale game . That and use of nicknames and 'mate' seems completely unprofessional

B4thB4ck
B4thB4ck
01/09/2020 11:24
If referees want to be pundits then that offers great insight for us all but they MUST retire from the whistle first.

opti
Optimist
01/09/2020 11:40
2 things that we can't blame the result on: 1/ uncontested scrums, 2/ Wayne Barnes

5 things that we can blame it on:

- lack of patience in the red zone
- inflexibility in the face of changing circumstances
- non-existent attacking patterns in our backs
- we play every single game as if it is an away game
- Wasps are actually a very good team in a fine run of form. It was always going to be a close game, and it was. We scored 5 times (2 tries, 3 pens) and they scored 5 times (3 tries, 2 pens). It could have gone either way

warrenball
warrenball
01/09/2020 12:15
I had hoped to feel slightly less disappointed about our performance after a nights sleep but not so, maybe because I was starting to believe that maybe we had turned a corner. When I looked at the teams the thing that shone out was they had picked a team to compete at the breakdown and even without Young they dominated our back row.

You are right Optimist, it could have gone either way, but we were at home and they had lost four players, it should never have even been close enough to go either way, especially after that start.

Certainly Faletau is not playing well and Mercer had a very poor game, we have got to get the back row ready for Dombrant and Robshaw, but there has got to be some more creativity in the backs, even in the games where the pack are driving us forward I cannot remember a proper running backs move from Bath and that is really depressing.

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
01/09/2020 12:24
Flouw was in the stand on Monday - oh how he would have loved this new application of the breakdown Laws. Players like him, the Currys, Thomas Young etc are worth their weight in gold now, its not like we didn't see it coming. I'm hoping that Reid turns into that player (Bayliss?) they certainly have the mobility to get there quickly.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

opti
Optimist
01/09/2020 12:56
"oh how he would have loved this new application of the breakdown Laws"

Funny how all the DoRs are being frightfully phlegmatic and sporting about this .... coincidentally in this season where there is no relegation.

It might be better, might be worse. But nothing will convince me that it's being applied with absolute logic or consistency. The breakdown and the scrum will forever require referees to whistle for the offence of their choosing.

MESSAGES->author
OutsideBath
01/09/2020 12:56
Quote:
Optimist
2 things that we can't blame the result on: 1/ uncontested scrums, 2/ Wayne Barnes
5 things that we can blame it on:

- lack of patience in the red zone
- inflexibility in the face of changing circumstances
- non-existent attacking patterns in our backs[i][/i]
- we play every single game as if it is an away game
- Wasps are actually a very good team in a fine run of form. It was always going to be a close game, and it was. We scored 5 times (2 tries, 3 pens) and they scored 5 times (3 tries, 2 pens). It could have gone either way

This has been a fans complaint for years, how has Dempsey managed to keep his job, he isn't adding any value? I am of course assuming that Hooper isn't putting constraints on what he wants to do.

MESSAGES->author
woodpecker
01/09/2020 13:14
- we play every single game as if it is an away game


Do you mean cause or effect?

opti
Optimist
01/09/2020 13:23
I guess only those on the inside will know the answer to that OB. For me, there are 3 components to this:

1. it's very likely that Hooper is dictating a limited game-plan, and therefore Dempsey may be a little stymied
2. ...however - our backs do get plenty of ball in hand, and I can't ever recall hearing a commentator mutter the old cliche, 'that move is straight off the training ground'. Dempsey's (positive) influence is literally impossible to discern or define
3. the role of 10. For many teams, 10 is the quarter-back/coach on the pitch. When you get in the 22, he'll be sitting in the pocket screaming instructions, while the forwards probe and push, but waiting to pick the exact right moment when he wants the ball released. Between the 10-metre lines, he'll be the one asking for quick ball off the top of the lineout, or switching play back and forth to try to work some space or a mismatch or a gap, or working the back 3 around. I think Rhys has many qualities, but I guarantee that Ford or Cipriani would transform our attack, irrespective of Hooper's instructions or Dempsey's coaching.

Ali1969
Ali1969
01/09/2020 13:57
I think we have to give credit to Wasps - they did all that was asked of any team - they came to our field - nullified our greatest threat and proceeded to create and deservedly won the game.

I personally think we have the making of a very good team/squad - however we are nowhere near being a championship winning team/squad. We are just too one dimensional and as shown by Wasps you nullify our scrum we appear to have no other game plan and headless.

Ultimately - Hoops is responsible for game and game plan...I also noted a very interesting comment made by Ben Kay last night and read into this what you want - He said it is about getting the right players for the game plan and club not just buying a star player, he quantified that by stating you need to have a player that fits into the way you want your club to play a bit like Toby Flood perfect player for the big Leicester pack at the time...Horses for Courses.

Whilst he was clearly referring to some of the players we have had in the recent past - the likes of Burgess, Donald and Chev Walker - the question is why have world class stars in your backline and play a forward based game plan with no scope to use these VERY expensive players you are employing - it is not good for the club wallet or the players themselves. If the future is purely stick it up your jumper and the most expansive game is to fling out to 10 to put a bomb or touch finder then get players who are happy to chase the rabbit all day long and hit anything that moves - do not spend the salary cap on some of the most expensive and creative players in England.

We were very effective against Saints by doing just that - the ball other than for De G's try never really got past 10 and the backrow and backline just hit anything that moved from the opposition. When I look at some of the tries scored this weekend - it highlights for me just how clueless and devoid of any attacking intent we really are - that does worry me I can't lie and I just cannot see the likes of Watson, JJ, Joe C(when fit) being happy with that style of play. I bet that performance on Monday was an eye opener for Ben Spencer - a true insight into our back play?

OldMarovian
OldMarovian
01/09/2020 13:58
It felt like leadership both on and off the field lost this game for you.

I found Spencers role interesting. I think he's a very good player and I was gutted when he left but I don't think of him as a leader. I was interested to read a piece by him recently where he said something to the effect that he was hoping to have more of that role at Bath but that he had to balance it with no seeming like the new guy who comes in and thinks he knows best.

I have no idea if he wasn't switched on enough to revert to a kicking game or didn't feel empowered enough to say anything but it seems crazy that you have a player whose tactical kicking is a strength and when you need it it's no used. Assuming it's Spencers failing why on earth wasn't Hooper from the sidelines or Ewels on the field suggesting that Bath played that way?

opti
Optimist
01/09/2020 15:56
That’s Spencer ‘not playing a kicking game’!!?? Thanks for warning me. May just rearrange my sock draw when he does decide to go that way.

Mike the Taxi
Mike the Taxi
01/09/2020 16:16
Opti - I normally keep my socks in a drawer -
[www.phrases.org.uk].,
what sort of container is a 'draw'?

Danchinho
Danchinho
01/09/2020 16:39
Still baffled by our passive line out when Wasps were without a hooker. You’d think they’d either go to the front or very long to the back, weren’t going to risk somewhere in the middle. So you put you best jumper at the front and get up early. Even if we are thinking they’re going for a driving maul. It was there for the taking. It was really odd.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

warrenball
warrenball
01/09/2020 16:59
It is not an excuse for losing, I think we were very poor in many areas and Wasps deserved to win, especially with their injuries, but does anyone know the laws regarding uncontested scrums? I am sure Wayne Barnes does and his decision to allow Wasps to play with 15 men is no doubt correct, but I thought you could not replace the injured player if the scrums went uncontested?

9215
9215
01/09/2020 17:35
I believe you can replace the injured player if it was a head injury, similar to a subbed player being allowed back on if there’s an HIA

Beergoggles
Beergoggles
01/09/2020 17:40
Quote:
Optimist
2 things that we can't blame the result on: 1/ uncontested scrums, 2/ Wayne Barnes
5 things that we can blame it on:

- lack of patience in the red zone
- inflexibility in the face of changing circumstances
- non-existent attacking patterns in our backs
- we play every single game as if it is an away game
- Wasps are actually a very good team in a fine run of form. It was always going to be a close game, and it was. We scored 5 times (2 tries, 3 pens) and they scored 5 times (3 tries, 2 pens). It could have gone either way

I agree with all 5 of these points but it was 1 and 2 in the list that led to my teeth grinding. We aren’t going to fix 3 and 4 without a change of approach and personnel but with the team on the park and a bit of nouce we’d have ground this one out. Kick it towards the corner at every opportunity,, aggressively contest the line out and use the maul and pick and drive until we bore Wasps into submission. Trying to play an open attacking game against Wasps with our running incompetence was only going to go one way. Accept our limitations for now, keep it simple, find a 10 and attacks coach to get us moving next season.

charlieboa
charlieboa
01/09/2020 18:01
Exactly this beergoggles.

The perfect excuse and set of circumstances to just grind them into the dust with a v limited game plan exactly as you describe... and we suddenly decide we are the harlem globetrotters (but without any of the skill).

Dim is my generous assessment....

As an aside , if there was ever a game where we missed flo. The interpretation / reffing change at the breakdown has come at a bad time for us. I wonder if miles reids stock will rapidly rise as he seems better suited in terms of skill set.

ballsout
ballsout
01/09/2020 19:24
Getting a new attack coach isn't going to change anything when the people in charge dictate how they want the players to play.

TG Kesmo
TG Kesmo
01/09/2020 19:30
Quote:
ballsout
Getting a new attack coach isn't going to change anything when the people in charge dictate how they want the players to play.

So by that logic getting Hatley in didn’t make any difference at all to our scrummaging unless the “people in charge “ wanted him to. If a coach is good enough then the players will improve.

warrenball
warrenball
01/09/2020 21:41
Thanks 9215, but it makes no sense that if a player breaks a leg and scrums become uncontested they are reduced to 14 men, but if you are knocked out, with no chance of returning you can stay at 15. An injury is an injury whether to the head or another part of the body, the laws should be the same for both. I can understand if the laws allowed 10 minutes for the player to be assessed leaving 15 on the pitch but as soon as his departure is permanent the team should be reduced to 14. Otherwise there is no incentive for a team under pressure not to go uncontested.

Raggs
Raggs
01/09/2020 22:05
Quote:
warrenball
Thanks 9215, but it makes no sense that if a player breaks a leg and scrums become uncontested they are reduced to 14 men, but if you are knocked out, with no chance of returning you can stay at 15. An injury is an injury whether to the head or another part of the body, the laws should be the same for both. I can understand if the laws allowed 10 minutes for the player to be assessed leaving 15 on the pitch but as soon as his departure is permanent the team should be reduced to 14. Otherwise there is no incentive for a team under pressure not to go uncontested.

It's to help make sure that players are willing to accept an HIA, or self report.

Wasps were slightly on top in the scrum, so no reason to fake injuries, and you'd fake prop injuries, not hookers.

Genuine injuries can occur. The 14 man law was brought in to stop teams from faking it, since it seemed like more teams were faking than genuinely ending up in that situation. However, given the serious nature of head injuries, it was given exemption.

9215
9215
02/09/2020 00:28
Quote:
warrenball
Thanks 9215, but it makes no sense that if a player breaks a leg and scrums become uncontested they are reduced to 14 men, but if you are knocked out, with no chance of returning you can stay at 15. An injury is an injury whether to the head or another part of the body, the laws should be the same for both. I can understand if the laws allowed 10 minutes for the player to be assessed leaving 15 on the pitch but as soon as his departure is permanent the team should be reduced to 14. Otherwise there is no incentive for a team under pressure not to go uncontested.

Doesn’t make sense but is still the rules, similar to Wasps avoiding a card when they brought down our maul because we managed to get the ball down

ukms
ukms
02/09/2020 04:43
Quote:
9215
Quote:
warrenball
Thanks 9215, but it makes no sense that if a player breaks a leg and scrums become uncontested they are reduced to 14 men, but if you are knocked out, with no chance of returning you can stay at 15. An injury is an injury whether to the head or another part of the body, the laws should be the same for both. I can understand if the laws allowed 10 minutes for the player to be assessed leaving 15 on the pitch but as soon as his departure is permanent the team should be reduced to 14. Otherwise there is no incentive for a team under pressure not to go uncontested.

Doesn’t make sense but is still the rules, similar to Wasps avoiding a card when they brought down our maul because we managed to get the ball down

The maul ends as soon as it goes over the line .... makes perfect sense to me smiling smiley

BerkeleyWood
The Bear
02/09/2020 07:10
Quote:
Raggs

It's to help make sure that players are willing to accept an HIA, or self report.

Wasps were slightly on top in the scrum, so no reason to fake injuries, and you'd fake prop injuries, not hookers.

Genuine injuries can occur. The 14 man law was brought in to stop teams from faking it, since it seemed like more teams were faking than genuinely ending up in that situation. However, given the serious nature of head injuries, it was given exemption.

"Seemed like more teams" - I distinctly recall one team being prolific in its use winking smiley

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/09/2020 07:51
I have no issue with the uncontested scrums - they got 2 obvious injuries to their hookers who could not continue. What was a farce was Wayne trying to get some certainty over whether the guy could hook.

I thought that they had looked at the idea of clubs submitting details ( with the team selections) of where each player could safely play - guess it never happened. Then an official simply looks down the list and its a binary decision and we get on with the game. Same with THP and LHP last year I think, there was a team who had a guy who had played LHP for years and then 'converted' to THP and said he couldn't play LHP any more. Not disputing his view in that case, but a list would make it easier.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Raggs
Raggs
02/09/2020 09:30
The team sheet is a full and final thing. A player can choose to play there if he can convince the ref and his coaches he's happy to and will be safe. I don't think any team would put it on a team sheet unless they had a situation such as Wasps last season, with Ashley Johnson fully capable of playing hooker, but starting on the flank.

Otherwise, you may end up like Wasps, being expected to face quite a good scrum, with a completely untested unit, and a player who was unsure. Safety wise, it was absolutely the right call, but also tactically, it was the right call for Wasps. Wasps were just about on top in the scrums up until that point, and had no legal reason to need to likely go behind there either. Especially considering they were already going to be massively disadvantaged in the lineout.

As for the penalty try. It really is straightforward. A foul that prevents a try being scored, is more serious than one that doesn't. That's why it deserves a card and a penalty try. If we want to stop playing advantage, then Bath would have already had a man sent off for Wasps first try, when they brought the maul down 2m away from the tryline, and Wasps went on to score with the advantage.

Bathovalballer
Bathovalballer
02/09/2020 09:57
We should never moan or complain about the ref. When I played and I am sure as many others have, if a ref interprets things or allows certain things, play it his way. Adapt and then hopefully prosper. Don't moan about the ref having an off day. That is part of a players intelligence or even a coach getting a message on the field, which we quite obviously lack. Ewels may prove to be a good leader of the pack, but a thinking captain he is not at present! Nor are the coaches apparently either.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

BathMatt53
BathMatt53
02/09/2020 10:40
Quote:
Raggs
The team sheet is a full and final thing. A player can choose to play there if he can convince the ref and his coaches he's happy to and will be safe. I don't think any team would put it on a team sheet unless they had a situation such as Wasps last season, with Ashley Johnson fully capable of playing hooker, but starting on the flank.

There do seem to be a number of hookers who play on the flank (or flankers who can hook) these days - Dave Ward being the most obvious by as you say also Johnson and (international flanker) Singleton. Even Gabriel Oghre himself played on the flank I think? There are also props who have (and can) play across the whole front row - John Smit being one.

[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

opti
Optimist
02/09/2020 16:28
Incidentally ... why does everyone appear to agree that we should have just kicked corners and stuck it up the jumper as a response to Wasps early injury woes?

Surely - if the opposition lose two of the players who are key to their continuity game so early, and 3 players overall, thus putting a real strain on their resources and fitness in the final quarter, it should have been us that tried everything we could to stretch them as far and as fast as we could, rather than slowing the game down to snail's pace?

Likewise, what possessed Taulupe to pick and go so often in attacking positions from uncontested scrums? Surely that's the easiest thing in the world for the opposition back-row to pick off given that they don't need to push or worry about holding any stability in the scrum. Why would we not back the likes of JJ, Watson, McConnochie in that situation?

MESSAGES->author
shipwrecked
02/09/2020 16:46
Off course Opti, but to go from our pack winning the game for us to spinning it through the backs on demand with RP at 10 is far too much of a stretch.

What RP is good at is kicking so win the ball from the uncontested and drop a goal is more realistic.
Rory Mc scores from opportunist tries not from passes from JJ. wholeheartedly agree with lightweight Mercer and Faletau trying to force their way over though what too easy to defend.

On the RP front he was a very good 10 but sadly he has lost pace and that now limits his game, the running back to the pack with the backs outside him summed it all up for me. He didn't have the pass because the backs were in front and wasn't fast enough to get in front and across to them.

JM gets away with taking the ball into contact because of his physicality. RP has only one tool in his box, every knows that so its far to easy to defend against that sort of predictability.

https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

Bath Supporter Jack
Bath Supporter Jack
02/09/2020 22:44
Left it a few days before commenting.

Spencer had a poor game and Robson had a very good game.

RP was just about his usual extremely one dimensional player..............that combined with Spencer playing his worst game for us..............meant that we did nothing with our ball.

Wasps on the other hand looked sharp in the backs and were slick and imaginative.........

Thank goodness we were not playing Exeter or Saracens!

I would play OB....................he really can't be any worse!!!

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