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Would have been 9 if Courts wasn't injured.



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

Quote:

Saint Tim
Would have been 9 if Courts wasn't injured.

Courts is in squad...!

England Saxons 32-man squad:

Forwards: *D Attwood (Bath Rugby), C Brooker (Harlequins), P Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), M Garvey (London Irish), J Gaskell (Sale Sharks), J Gibson (London Irish), J Gray (Harlequins), T Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), J Launchbury (London Wasps), M Mullan (Worcester Warriors), L Narraway (Gloucester Rugby), D Paice (London Irish), *G Parling (Leicester Tigers), G Robson (Harlequins), A Saull (Saracens), H Thomas (Sale Sharks), T Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), N Wood (Gloucester Rugby).

Backs: N Abendanon (Bath Rugby), A Allen (Leicester Tigers), D Armitage (London Irish), M Banahan (Bath Rugby), F Burns (Gloucester Rugby), K Dickson (Harlequins), *A Goode (Saracens), J Joseph (London Irish), R Lamb (Northampton Saints), J May (Gloucester Rugby), U Monye (Harlequins), *H Trinder (Gloucester Rugby), B Twelvetrees (Leicester Tigers), M Young (Leicester Tigers).

Telegraph

Damn....

But congratulations to the boys.

Bridesmaids no more.

Dóh - and congrats to them all.



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

Well done all the lads. Now - what about the back row situation, especially if Nutley gets a (deserved) call up for the U20s?

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I would have liked to have seen Burns and even Jonny May, plus a few other oddish decisions in the EPS but this looks like it could be a very exciting 6N's from an English point of view.


FHS.

Looks like our trips to Gloucester and Irish during the 6N will be tough. Sarries have lost six so that'd be a bit more even, all other things the same.

Congrats to all those Saints selected in both squads. Looks like all our English qualified first XV hav been selected across the board!

Congratulations to them all but pooh!

Tremendous Disaster

whats the crack with the Saons selctions availability, do we lose them throughout the same period?

I would hope some not involved in match day squad would be released back to the clubs

My cup runneth over But notwithstanding congratulations to all Saints honoured by the call ups. However like Old Pete I fear a slide down the league but will happily eat humble pie if not. Crazy crazy system roll on a Euro league.

Top of the League 2014-2015 Season

Saxons only have two fixtures - Scotland and Ireland - the weekends of the LV cup games. So we should have Lamb and PDJ back for the re-start of the Premiership games, plus any "not needed" from the elite squad.

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Poor for Parling and Atwood that Botha and Palmer get selected ahead of them

Fingers crossed for Phil he gets a real chance and isn't holding tackle bags

SM paying the price for being second fiddle to Lamb it seems

Previous experience suggests that Saints will not be able to sustain their AP position this season.

Congrats to all. However it makes our season a lot tougher now!

We're in a decent position for the LV= currently; this depleted we may now not be.

Grats to all... think it shows that Jims recruitment of young english talent that he dealed with in Saxons capacity and then Lancester took over has paid dividends in giving them opportunity to progress further in international recognition


doesnt help us though!... with stronger squad, think we could have dealt with the 5 from last year, but 8 and a whole back row

Only positive I can see, is puts us in a very good light for youngsters looking to move on and get potential international regonition?... so good on recruitment front

Hopefully this also means the England squad will not be so toxic in terms of style of play/fitness etc and when they come back they'll slot straight back in.

I suspect Jim saw this coming and was stretching the squad approach in anticipation. Leicester, wasps and others in their day have had to get used to this - so should we - and so can we. Good to see a sizeable selection from Sarries too.

Really chuffed for Dows and Dicko in particular. Looking forward to the pics - and for the first time in years I'm actually looking forward to a 6N...

In a round about way, I'm glad we're not fighting all all fronts again this season. If we just have the league to concentrate on it might make things easier. However, as the top 4 teams have all taken the brunt of the selections, and both us and Tigs lie precariously in third and fourth, it will make the games during the 6N a whole lot more interesting. Lets hope the rest of the squad can manage. But bloody well done all the lads. Especially chuffed for Dowse and Dicko.

I know it's a potential blow to our league position but I can't help being chuffed for the guys that have been picked. Particularly for Dowson, Dickson and Clark

I'm gutted Rory Clegg hasn't been picked at 10!!

Wonderful news.

Great for those picked and great for those that can now get some game time at saints....

I still feel confident for the season. Blind optimism perhaps.

Not enough Saints picked, too many Tigers

Thanks for adding that perspective Stopsy ;-)



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

Really pleased for Dows and Dicko - lets hope they can both get a cap! Perhaps two of our players for next season (as well as D-J and Lamby) in the Saxons?

Great for our boys. Great credit to the coaches and club. We should all be proud.

Our youngsters who have to step up now must be really excited by the opportunities this presents for them too.

As a by the way - I was interested to see that Saxon selections Alex Goode, Trinder, Parling and Attwood were earmarked as being temporary secondments to the full EPS squad to cover injuries. The former of these is clearly earmarked to cover Fly Half but he has hardly played there this season and is third choice there for his club. Which must make the Saxons selection a bit bitter sweet one for Lamby and even more gutting for Myler - to find out how far they are behind in the pecking order.

Why not have our flippin kitchen sink as well?


However hearty congrats to all.

"sup·port·er"

Noun:
1.A person who approves of and encourages someone or something (typically a public figure, a movement or party, or a policy).
2.A person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.

Many congrats to Calum, Phil & Lee in particular.

Feel disappointed for PDJ - Dave Wilson v.fortunate to be ahead of him imo.

Joe Gray also unlucky. Probably something to do with the limit on max changes to the EPS squad SL can make.

Congrats to all involved! Good news, financially, for the club also, isn't it?

It's good to see the doom mongerers back already. I guess this is the same people who thought we were in a relegation battle after the first few games of the season?

Even with the increase in players we lose, I'd say there's a big difference, in a positive way, between our squad during teh RWC and now. Playerwise, I give you: Pisi, Vasily, Soane (who were all missing) and Wilson (who was injured IIRC). We've also seen our squad settle more (new recruits etc) and our young players (Elliott, Haywood) etc get more game time. Full back still leaves a question mark, but I'm sure that Jim et al will have learnt from the games we played in September/October.

In addition to the above, how would Sarries cope if we play them and they're missing their axis of Farrell/Barritt/Hodgson?

I'm actually quite looking forward to this testing period now.

Back row a bit iffy when you consider them in terms of RWC/Lions requirements, too many who are general purpose 6s but not enough who are geniune 7s or 8s. I assume Clark is there as a back row. Dowson's done well to get in but a bit late in his career when you consider Easter has been dropped as its late in his career. Strikes me that he is the first choice no 8, unless they are prepared for an immediate promotion for Morgan. The steam roller behind Wood for captain is also a bit premature. After all he's not captain here at the Saints nor did he get much game time in the RWC. He's behind Croft at 6 so presumably he or maybe Robshaw is being groomed as first choice no 7. Can't see both playing together so either being captain is an issue.

A special well done to the Dickson brothers for their selection to the two squads. Lee and Karl's parents must be very proud.

TF I am not a doom monger just as I posted really pleased for the guys selected but the fixture organisation annoys me Club first Country second is my view and I also said if we are not too badly affected I would be delighted to eat my portion of humble pie. m

Top of the League 2014-2015 Season

Not a dig at you in particular Bob, but here and elsewhere, there seems to be a lot of negativity before a ball's been kicked.

I'm club before country too - every time. However, I can't wait to see the young players like Haywood (especially), Craig, Nutley and Elliott make their mark. I'm also proud of the lads that will be representing their country and the management team/club who produced them. As Jim said on Friday night "they didn't come here as international players".

I recall posts around the time before the last 6 nations and the RWC about the England players, when they return to the club, needing to "earn their shirt back" etc when in reality, they came back and had to pick it up off the floor. This time, for reason's I've presented above, I believe it to be different.

The season aint over - it's beginning.

Rose tinted glasses come to mind with a lot of these choices. Players such as Attwood, Parling and Goode to train with senior squad - a joke. Botha not first choice at Saracens - Borthwick even though older far better. One or two from our team chosen and yet injured or not playing well at the moment. Ugo Monye excellent back not considered for first team. I wonder how the likes of Myler and Daisy feel about all this? Seymour excellent for Sale at the moment, yet...? Robshaw is only choice to captain, an excellent leader, but will he be picked. He would certainly get in the Saints team in the back row.

Headman, Ugo Monye?!!!

Agreed, Seymour playing well but very competitive position and maybe out and out 7s are the way England want it?

I agree in that I don't see Tom Wood as favourite for captain given his inexperience as captain and when Dylan's captain here, and Dowse or Clark tend to step in to do the job in his absence. Would be a bit odd having Dylan as Northampton captain and Tom as England captain.

That said, it would also be a massive call to make Robshaw England captain on just his second international cap and 2-3 years after his first.

Don't know why Dylan isn't being spoken about more as captain. Pretty sure of his place in the starting XV, pretty experienced with England now, and has experience of captaincy with Saints for a couple of seasons now and in my opinion, does a good job in the role.

Chiefs fan in peace.
Ive been challenged on the Chiefs page as i criticised the lack of specialist opensides in the England squad, and named Dowson as someone who should not have been picked ahead of a young 7, such as Saull. I have always thought of Wood as a 6 but have noticed that recently he is playing the openside role regularly, and have been tasked with getting your opinion on the matter.
Should Dowson have been picked given his age and the number of quality players who play similar roles to him?
Is Wood a specialist 7?

Theres a definate sticking point for me with the selection.

Joe Marler (Harlequins)

He's rubbish.... I know people will say he's good around the park and such.. but he cant do his job.

PDJ should feel a little hard done to.

I would refer you to Eif's post above. Quite considered really.

We are all delighted for Dows. Wonderful player and should have been capped before and probably would have been but for the Tigs mafia.

Is he too old - well he is a sure fire leader and we need those on the pitch for England.

I suspect he will not get too many games - but would love to see him in the white rose.



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

The question I raised with Heavichief was not really to do with Dowson but that I disputed his assertion that Wood was not a 7...

...

This 6 Nations I will be mostly supporting the East Midlands.



DBM

Woody does sem to be playing openside more and more with us.



“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

I believe that when available for selection, Wood has pretty much played no.7 most of the season. Our first choice back row would probably be Dowse, Wood and Wilson. I don't know the subtle differences between a 6 and 7 and am not sure they even exist anymore in modern rugby.

When you think of the speed the ball was coming out of our rucks against Quins, and the lack of speed coming out of Quin's, I think our backrow must have been doing some good hidden work.

As for this notion that it would be odd with Wood being captain when his club captain is already in the side... well it doesn't seem to hinder O'Driscoll when Cullen plays for Ireland.

Quote:

Saint.Kenneth
As for this notion that it would be odd with Wood being captain when his club captain is already in the side... well it doesn't seem to hinder O'Driscoll when Cullen plays for Ireland.

Fair point, but I just think Dylan's a far more obvious candidate but isn't being talked about anywhere near as much. Probably something to do with his 'reputation' I suppose.

Wood is a genuine modern day 7 who was previously picked for England at 6. It appears that some folks find it quite difficult to think of him as a 7 because he's tall.

In terms of the Saxons squad, spare a thought for Steve Myler.
Best goalkicker in the Prem(91%). Note: that said best goalkicker, not english goalkicker.
Hasn`t done much wrong for us when he`s been on the pitch, and done a great job for Lancaster in the Saxons when he has played for him.
Perhaps its Lancaster ensuring that we have some players left to pick from .
Steve, I hope:
1. gets a start on sat
2.we stuff the Scarlets
3. He improves the 91% rate.

Eif posting during daylight included the following words in a thoughtful post



here at the Saints

Great news for the individuals.

As an Englishman who struggles to give two hoots about his national team I hope Lancester brings some fresh ideas and adds something to these players.

Previously its all been a one way street as far as 'England Rugby' is concerned.

You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometimes well you might find, You get what you need.

Richards/Jagger

Will worry about the consequences for the club at a much later date if appropriate. In the meantime, I am absolutely thrilled for all the lads.

It's making it more and more difficult for me to support Scotland against England now.

----------------------------------------

Please sponsor me for Saints with Heart [www.justgiving.com]

And mallinder's reaction is a great credit to every person involved at Saints.

[news.bbc.co.uk]

How can you say that! - When England Saints play Wales I will still be shouting for Wales..

I thought it would be GGGLLLAAAWWWSSSTTTEEERRR Rob!


David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

Suppose you have a point Dave.. :-)

Chuffed to bits for all of them, particularly the new guys getting an opportunity. They all deserve it and I hope they take their chances and go on to win many caps.

Well done all and it is the ultimate honour for any player to represent their country. I'm especially chuffed for Dicko and for Dowse who've both worked very hard to get there.

England's selection is a major step away from the previous regimes' conservatism and cronyism. It will be interesting to see how many of our boys get through to the squad of 23.

I think this business of Lancaster as interim coach is all a ruse and, in fact, Jim picked this squad in readiness for his takeover at the end of the season.

As a major critic of England selections since January 2004, I admire Lancaster's boldness (what has he to lose - he's not favourite to keep the job).

Having bitten the bullet now, England could stand the chance of putting several hundred caps into the fray in 2015. In case anyone needs reminding, it's a 'home' RWC.

My oft-stated view is that a cap for anyone not likely to make the first game in that competition is wasted - you cannot garner the sort of experience you need without getting a decent number of caps and a decent amount of game time to go with them.

In 2004 the bulk of the 2003 grand slammers finished 3rd in the 6 nations. In those terms, anything better than 4th is a success. Given that it's a transition year (boy, is this a transition), performance matters more than results.

Anyone who supports the red rose should be wishing these young guns well and not carping about old players who would make naff-all difference to the results this year and wouldn't make the squad in three years time.

[lowrence.com]

Fair point OSB but on what basis do you make the judgement that "a cap for anyone not likely to make the first game in that competition is wasted" ? If age is the criteria that could prove somewhat arbitary.

We should be REALLY celebrating this news, yes for the guys named, but also for the prospects of our future recruitment: come to Northampton, you young talented players, and we will put you in the frame for international rugby.

Another step in the rise of Northampton Saints.

Really REALLY thrilled at this. Short term, it may mean some pain, but I don't think so. I think we'll manage okay: maybe win a couple, lose a couple. We recruited well in the Summer and now these guys have had a chance to bed in I'm very much hoping it will pay off now in terms of depth. Yes of course we lose a lot, yes of course it's asking youngsters to step up, but isn't that what we've been doing steadily ever since Jim took over? Heywood, Nutley, Elliot? These lads have all stepped up this season and done well. Now it's time to see if a few more have it in them: Ingle, Commins, Tonks, Craig. Come on, let's see if you can cut it.

There's been something of a tradition amongst fans to see a young guy have a poor game and then dismiss them as rubbish. I prefer to see it all as a learning experience. Very very few players step up as fully formed premiership players; most will have a few ups and downs on the way. Yes, some never make it, but unless they're given the opportunity we'll never know if they have what it takes.

In the chaos of the structure that is our season, there will be opportunity. It's up to our young players to grab that and run.