Yorkshire Carnegie
The only way is up
Due for a good season
By Haxbytyke
August 2 2011
Sitting in the July sunshine at Scarborough watching Yorkshire CCC, my mind started drifting to their Headingley home, and then unsurprisingly, to what lay in store at the other side of the main stand come September.
The disappointments of last season are now gone, the magnificent efforts at Franklins Gardens just a memory, but we must all hope our absence from the Premiership is only temporary, and the building blocks are in place for Leeds Carnegie to return to the top table.
Every team that has been relegated from the Premiership has finished the following season at the top of the second tier, but we all know, that being top of the heap at the end of the regular season, as Bristol found out, is now, not enough. Indeed, a team could complete the season in 8th place, and, providing they meet the criteria set down by the Premiership, end up being promoted. That however will not happen, as currently only Leeds, Bristol and Nottingham meet the acceptable standards regarding ground capacity, and Nottingham have a problem as they are tenants and not owners of their stadium.
All in all a farcical system for the second level of rugby in England, but if that makes it easier for Leeds then so be it.
As the relegated side, Leeds will be the bookies favourites to bounce back, but the other 11 teams will see the Leeds fixture as their Cup Final, especially when they have home advantage, and while I expect Leeds to overcome most opponents on their travels, it is essential that they make Headingley a fortress and make teams fear coming up to LS6.
So who stand in the way of a quick return? Whatever anybody says about the Championship, it does not have the week in, week out, intensity of the Premiership, and the experience many of our players have gained at the highest level should stand them in good stead when the going gets tough. It will get tough, and I expect Pirates, Bedford and London Welsh to give us our stiffest tests. Nottingham, Bristol and Doncaster may also prove troublesome, but with all respect to the other teams, I think we should comfortably achieve what would be my first objective, a top four finish. This would take us into the play off games with a slight disadvantage with any of the teams who finish above us, but it matters not, as now it is basically knock out rugby, and we need to have our strongest team available to carry us through.
At the moment we lack a bit of experience in the back row, but the 5 in front of them know enough to mix it with any front 5 in the league, so hopefully we will win most of the forward battles. A couple of the newcomers are apparently blessed with pace, so if we can get the ball moving, then I think Lachlan Mackay will be the man to make the space for the backs to grab a bagful of tries. Add to that the metronomic kicking of Joe Ford and Stevie McColl, and I am very hopeful our stay in the Championship will be a short one.
Anyway, that’s still a few weeks away, so it’s back to the other side of the main stand, sitting in the sunshine watching Yorkshire. Surprisingly, for a team playing at Headingley, they are fighting a relegation battle. Nothing changes there, except the seasons.
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Discussion started by TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged), 02/08/2011 06:16
02/08/2011 06:16
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Good piece Hax, I completely agree with you!
However, apparantly Mackay is out injured for the early part of the season....again? and Danny Paul will also be missing................
It would be helpful (and quite proper!) for Headingley to give us regular updates on the fitness, or lack of! our squad players.
We can but hope someone will respond.
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
However, apparantly Mackay is out injured for the early part of the season....again? and Danny Paul will also be missing................
It would be helpful (and quite proper!) for Headingley to give us regular updates on the fitness, or lack of! our squad players.
We can but hope someone will respond.
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Nice one Haxby - not sure the ground situation does make it easier for us. I think it makes for 'cup-finals' for all the teams playing us & Bris and Nottingham.
A well written article and a good read. However I'd make the following points:
Although the Championship matches may not be played with skill levels of the Prem, I'd argue that our matches will be played with no less intensity as all the other clubs look to take our scalp. As Worcester found last season, every match will be a mini cup-final. I also do not believe that the play-off system makes it any easier for Leeds, indeed it offers more banana skin opportunities than before - something Bedford were moments from demonstrating at Wuss last May.
It's interesting to see th point raised that Lachie Mackay will be the man to set the backs free. That worries me greatly if the early reports of his injury-delayed start to the season are proved to be correct. Without doubt he owes the club big-time performances - I sincerely hope he spends more time on the pitch than in the treatment room.
And that leads me to my biggest concern. I have every faith that if we can play our first-choice XV every week we have the capabilities of finishing in the top three. However, should we face an injury crisis, particularly in the front five (remember having to play Parkes in the Prem last season) then our experience within the squad is very thin. I'm talking about matchday skills here rather than technical skills, and I have no doubts that our young and talented side will pick those up as the season progresses. Whether we can afford the time to allow them to gain that experience is another matter.
There are several teams who are looking at the coming season as the best chance they have of making the Premierships, so I would include Pirates and London Welsh to the above list. The former are my favourites for the title this season, they have improved last season's squad with some key signings and look as though at last there will be commitment for the Stadium for Cornwall. The Exiles will not be short of financial backing if they make the cut, too. There are certainly enough places for them to play in London if the need arises. I also believe that should a team currently ineligble to play in the Prem due to ground restrictions win the league, they will be allowed up provided commitment to improve facilities is made.
I really hope that the final sentiment regarding our stay in the Championship being a short one proves to be correct, but it will be a Herculean effort give the priorites emanating from the HC boardroom.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Although the Championship matches may not be played with skill levels of the Prem, I'd argue that our matches will be played with no less intensity as all the other clubs look to take our scalp. As Worcester found last season, every match will be a mini cup-final. I also do not believe that the play-off system makes it any easier for Leeds, indeed it offers more banana skin opportunities than before - something Bedford were moments from demonstrating at Wuss last May.
It's interesting to see th point raised that Lachie Mackay will be the man to set the backs free. That worries me greatly if the early reports of his injury-delayed start to the season are proved to be correct. Without doubt he owes the club big-time performances - I sincerely hope he spends more time on the pitch than in the treatment room.
And that leads me to my biggest concern. I have every faith that if we can play our first-choice XV every week we have the capabilities of finishing in the top three. However, should we face an injury crisis, particularly in the front five (remember having to play Parkes in the Prem last season) then our experience within the squad is very thin. I'm talking about matchday skills here rather than technical skills, and I have no doubts that our young and talented side will pick those up as the season progresses. Whether we can afford the time to allow them to gain that experience is another matter.
There are several teams who are looking at the coming season as the best chance they have of making the Premierships, so I would include Pirates and London Welsh to the above list. The former are my favourites for the title this season, they have improved last season's squad with some key signings and look as though at last there will be commitment for the Stadium for Cornwall. The Exiles will not be short of financial backing if they make the cut, too. There are certainly enough places for them to play in London if the need arises. I also believe that should a team currently ineligble to play in the Prem due to ground restrictions win the league, they will be allowed up provided commitment to improve facilities is made.
I really hope that the final sentiment regarding our stay in the Championship being a short one proves to be correct, but it will be a Herculean effort give the priorites emanating from the HC boardroom.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Mark,
Pirates and London Welsh are in Haxby's original list?
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Pirates and London Welsh are in Haxby's original list?
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Sorry, I meant the list of clubs meeting the ground criteria.
IMHO the top 5 will be between us, Pirates, LW, Bedford, and Bristol. Although there may be some surprise results along the way with all due respect I do not think that anybody else has a large enough full-time squad capable of performing over the course of the season.
However I hope that nobody at the club, either pitchside or otherwise, thinks it's a given that we will bounce straight back. We will need to do our talking on the pitch.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:02:10:33:48 by Mark_C.
IMHO the top 5 will be between us, Pirates, LW, Bedford, and Bristol. Although there may be some surprise results along the way with all due respect I do not think that anybody else has a large enough full-time squad capable of performing over the course of the season.
However I hope that nobody at the club, either pitchside or otherwise, thinks it's a given that we will bounce straight back. We will need to do our talking on the pitch.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:02:10:33:48 by Mark_C.
Quote:john r
It would be helpful (and quite proper!) for Headingley to give us regular updates on the fitness, or lack of! our squad players.
We can but hope someone will respond.
I agree, considering there are no pre-season games at home we have no idea whats going on or how they are developing.
To go with what others have said I have been told by (a player( that he feels our first 15 will beat anyone in the league home and away but had genuine concerns for when any injurties crop up to key players as we don't have the stregnth in depth that we may need. Personally I expect Lachlan to have a stand out season and to prove a lot of the doubters wrong, When he was picked last year it was at 10 where he is not comftorble and is a top 12. Pick him there and we'll see a new Mackay!
The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos
The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos
An interesting piece on the Moseley web-site suggests that Kevin Maggs, appointed as Head Coach after being assistant last season (who could play a bit! Freddy will tell all!) has recruited well and is setting out to have an expansive and fast game plan to bring plenty of scoring!
Diccon played in a similar way to Maggs, (it's how backs want to play,) and I have no doubt that they both have a similar mind set.
We have had some good tussles with Moseley over time.This seasons offerings could be very tasty!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Diccon played in a similar way to Maggs, (it's how backs want to play,) and I have no doubt that they both have a similar mind set.
We have had some good tussles with Moseley over time.This seasons offerings could be very tasty!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
I'm led to beleive that Mackay will miss the start of the season, add that to Titts, DP and Tinks a few weeks off yet, Big Mac at the WC, we appear to be missing a fair bit experience.
On the up side I hear Hardy is in negotiations to stay with us and Fury is still knocking around for some reason.
Looking forward to the league starting, not at all bothered about the pre season stuff.
Come on lads, lets stay at the top all season.
On the up side I hear Hardy is in negotiations to stay with us and Fury is still knocking around for some reason.
Looking forward to the league starting, not at all bothered about the pre season stuff.
Come on lads, lets stay at the top all season.
Think it would be great if Hardy stayed, a good player, and a top bloke. I never saw anything about Fury last season that made me think he was other than average, however, he may look better in the Chumpionship.
everybody looks better in the champ, that part of the problem when a team gets promoted...
Worcester actually had a few threads on their forum following relegation to the effect that it might be boring winning by 60/70 points against championship clubs - how wrong could they be, they were taken to the wire on many occasions right from the get go! They were often in second place at half time and had to eke out the win in the second half, which they invariably achieved, but only with difficulty and certainly without huge scores. Mark C is correct to have reservations, it is far more difficult to achieve promotion with the addition of the absolutely farcical play offs where everything hinges on a sprint to the tape. Tykes should win the league over the length of the season, but the sudden death aspect of the Play offs allied to incentive from the opponents to dish out some stick to the perceived Prem favourites could prove a major stumbling block to their campaign.
One thing is absolutely certain - the league games will often be 'mini cup' games with highly motivated underdogs only too keen to take a Prem club scalp. The other factor to take into consideration is the fact that without doubt, the upper echelons of the Championship are often the equal to the lower echelons of the Premiership. Good luck!
One thing is absolutely certain - the league games will often be 'mini cup' games with highly motivated underdogs only too keen to take a Prem club scalp. The other factor to take into consideration is the fact that without doubt, the upper echelons of the Championship are often the equal to the lower echelons of the Premiership. Good luck!
how times have changed. before exe survived a premiership season (despite never topping the second tier table) all we heard was how there was such a gulf between tier 1 and 2 that we had to 'invest' (or squander) to have any chance of survival. people even said this as exe were winning, right up until they were safe. now the script is very different. maybe this new championship isn't the disaster that everyone likes to make out...
i reckon we know what's coming. the previous two times we were relegated we heard how every game was going to be a cup final, how some clubs were targeting this 'easier' season for promotion, how leeds would struggle. it's like groundhog day.
that's not to say we'll have an easy ride, far from it. and personally, i reckon we'll lose a few before xmas as our team, squad and style develop. because of this i reckon the new format helps us by giving us that opportunity to develop with less pressure to win every game. the play offs are still a bit of a lottery, but the semis now being two-legged lessens the risk of a 'bedford scare' from last season.
it's going to be tough season, and with nothing guaranteed until that final whistle is blown. but, apart from our second year in the premiership (02/03) i honestly don't remember a season when we weren't either concerned about relegation or desperate to be promoted. plus ca change...
i agree with diccon and the board, we can build a squad that is happy to be leeds, with a vast swathe of them our own academy products. it's not guaranteed we'll get back up this season, it might be that we're not even favourites, but i'd rather build something for the long term personally. exe have shown what is possible with a tier two squad that keeps its teamwork, spirit and belief. qualities that were once ours, and will be again.
ps. good article, hax.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:04:11:11:05 by merry.
i reckon we know what's coming. the previous two times we were relegated we heard how every game was going to be a cup final, how some clubs were targeting this 'easier' season for promotion, how leeds would struggle. it's like groundhog day.
that's not to say we'll have an easy ride, far from it. and personally, i reckon we'll lose a few before xmas as our team, squad and style develop. because of this i reckon the new format helps us by giving us that opportunity to develop with less pressure to win every game. the play offs are still a bit of a lottery, but the semis now being two-legged lessens the risk of a 'bedford scare' from last season.
it's going to be tough season, and with nothing guaranteed until that final whistle is blown. but, apart from our second year in the premiership (02/03) i honestly don't remember a season when we weren't either concerned about relegation or desperate to be promoted. plus ca change...
i agree with diccon and the board, we can build a squad that is happy to be leeds, with a vast swathe of them our own academy products. it's not guaranteed we'll get back up this season, it might be that we're not even favourites, but i'd rather build something for the long term personally. exe have shown what is possible with a tier two squad that keeps its teamwork, spirit and belief. qualities that were once ours, and will be again.
ps. good article, hax.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:04:11:11:05 by merry.
Good man, Merry, totally agree with your sentiments - especially the last paragraph.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Good article and lots of good comments. What I took away from the fans evening was that in the future the current strategy of home grown plus a few experienced players is the only option for Leeds unless more external investment is forthcoming.(unlikely, we have tried to find other backers for years). So that is the (economic) reality for the club and if its not good enough for us to get promoted and stay in the Premiership then a Championship side we will become. I for one want to see Leeds survive as a club more than I want a return to the Premiership. I hope they won't be mutually exclusive!
Well said Merry!
We are already seeing doom mongers on here, though I doubt anyone who was at the Open Evening would be among them.
While being desperately disappointed by our offerings last season, to such a degree that I happened to be in Northampton on the weekend of the last match and didn't go to Franklins! as I really didn't want to see us stuffed big time again.
Had I known....................
However, I believe that all who attended the Open Evening came away with a very positive attitude to the aims and aspirations of the Management at Headingley. While it will not be easy and every match here will be someone else's Cup Final, Our squad looks to be a good bunch, though some have much to learn and no doubt, will do so early on!
We (they) do need to create "Fortress Headingley", such that all visiting teams come with trepidation and low expectations.
That way, we will succeed!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
We are already seeing doom mongers on here, though I doubt anyone who was at the Open Evening would be among them.
While being desperately disappointed by our offerings last season, to such a degree that I happened to be in Northampton on the weekend of the last match and didn't go to Franklins! as I really didn't want to see us stuffed big time again.
Had I known....................
However, I believe that all who attended the Open Evening came away with a very positive attitude to the aims and aspirations of the Management at Headingley. While it will not be easy and every match here will be someone else's Cup Final, Our squad looks to be a good bunch, though some have much to learn and no doubt, will do so early on!
We (they) do need to create "Fortress Headingley", such that all visiting teams come with trepidation and low expectations.
That way, we will succeed!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
A few of these teams far from seeing Leeds as a cup final are thinking that compared with Wuss we are easier meat. I don't discourage that way of thinking as we have sometimes profited from complacency in the AP, and suffered from it in previous spells in the Championship in the odd match or two.
Mostly the new team have a great opportunity, as they are not burdened with too much baggage (and cynical old hands). So I trust they will go on and show everyone what they are made of.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:05:15:37:58 by oopnorth.
Mostly the new team have a great opportunity, as they are not burdened with too much baggage (and cynical old hands). So I trust they will go on and show everyone what they are made of.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:05:15:37:58 by oopnorth.
Quote:John R
all visiting teams come with trepidation and low expectations.
Given the pap that is called beer and the state of the 'food' outlets - I, for one, would be cacking meself.
Sorry - I must get out more. I am bored out of my tiny mind.
Two weeks to Newcastle - can't come quick enough!
Oh Gelbel!
Missing the point.........................a bit?
I usually only comment about 'on the field' stuff. Most of what isn't onthe pitch isn't worh discussing!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Missing the point.........................a bit?
I usually only comment about 'on the field' stuff. Most of what isn't onthe pitch isn't worh discussing!
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
John - the off field stuff all adds to the "Headingley Experience". As 'bel says the eating/drinking side of this leaves a lot to be desired. I will be writing to Sian this weekend with a few suggestions as to how this can be improved.
To get me to spend my money in the ground, which I'd rather do,
I'd need
Decent Beer (Why not approach CAMRA to run a beer tent?)
Edible Food (Pie & Peas, Edible Burgers)
To be consumed in an area dedicated to Leeds Carnegie Rugby UNION.
Same as the merchandise, I'd rather our stuff was on display in a little shed rather than be hidden as an afterthought in the massive Rhinos range.
Exeter had it right last season in my opinion, the prices were not cheap but the quality was spot on. Maybe the Headingley catering manager could take a trip to Sandy Park to see how it's done.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
I'd need
Decent Beer (Why not approach CAMRA to run a beer tent?)
Edible Food (Pie & Peas, Edible Burgers)
To be consumed in an area dedicated to Leeds Carnegie Rugby UNION.
Same as the merchandise, I'd rather our stuff was on display in a little shed rather than be hidden as an afterthought in the massive Rhinos range.
Exeter had it right last season in my opinion, the prices were not cheap but the quality was spot on. Maybe the Headingley catering manager could take a trip to Sandy Park to see how it's done.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
I think we should have Champagne and Oyster bars scattered around the ground along with a "Foie Gras" cafe and of course for Mark C a real ale tent serving the finest ale and pies you could imagine.
Then anyone could dream, unfortunately the Whino's supporters aren't connoisseurs of the fine dining that Tykes fans are used to so we have to put up with the same slop they get.
[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]
Then anyone could dream, unfortunately the Whino's supporters aren't connoisseurs of the fine dining that Tykes fans are used to so we have to put up with the same slop they get.
[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]
Totally correct Madtyke.
Sadly profit has to come into it and after paying for a refreshment pitch at HC and competing with 10 other stalls I can't see how anyone makes a profit on a crowd of 3,000 of whom 2,500 have no intention of eating or drinking at the stadium.
Sorry mark - reality overcomes utopia again.
Sadly profit has to come into it and after paying for a refreshment pitch at HC and competing with 10 other stalls I can't see how anyone makes a profit on a crowd of 3,000 of whom 2,500 have no intention of eating or drinking at the stadium.
Sorry mark - reality overcomes utopia again.
And given I've gone for a ST this season a lot of my Sunday afternoons will be spent at HC. But I will be driving down as I can't be doing with that vile beer they sell. I might have a cup of coffee from the cafe bar but they even manage to mess that up. I'll more likely only fork out for a programme.
Lunch will be a take-out full roast from the local when the OH goes for his 'usual Sunday service' - £5 a bargain!
They are not going to get any value for money out of me I'm afraid.
Lunch will be a take-out full roast from the local when the OH goes for his 'usual Sunday service' - £5 a bargain!
They are not going to get any value for money out of me I'm afraid.
Quote:Gelbel
They are not going to get any value for money out of me I'm afraid.
A lot of us feel the same way. If there was decent beer served in the ground I would get the train to Leeds & offload some of my hard earned in the bar.
A few seasons ago the Carnegie Cafe Bar used to do Hot Dog and Curly fries for about a fiver. That used to be the highlight of my sunday, then it stopped. However, I haven't been in Cafe Bar for anything other than a coffee recently so can't comment on recent fare!
Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It
'proficiscor in una'
Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It
'proficiscor in una'
If they only exist for profit they might as well play us at South Leeds, 'cos it can't be economic for us lot to be rattling around Headingley.
They shouls have a look at Donnie's draught Tetleys and Cow Pie, you're not telling me that if they put that on at Leeds it wouldn't sell.
If they don't realise that a Union audience is different to a League one, then they should all pack up and get some pros in to run it.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
They shouls have a look at Donnie's draught Tetleys and Cow Pie, you're not telling me that if they put that on at Leeds it wouldn't sell.
If they don't realise that a Union audience is different to a League one, then they should all pack up and get some pros in to run it.
Miserati - and Proud to be!
Agreed there Mark - Donnie is a cracking day out. Sadly the Bris match clashes with our match v London Welsh so I'll miss an extra chance to get there this season.
Boxing Day should be great - better be a fun bus.
Boxing Day should be great - better be a fun bus.
Bedford is good also.
Excellent food served in the Clubhouse, top notch!
In defence of the Carnegie Cafe, last year they served a decent meat pie & gravy, veg, new potatoes or chips, which went down very well with those who were partaking.
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Excellent food served in the Clubhouse, top notch!
In defence of the Carnegie Cafe, last year they served a decent meat pie & gravy, veg, new potatoes or chips, which went down very well with those who were partaking.
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Let's not forget the pork sandwiches at Moseley!
I see a good culinary year ahead.
Suffering on the Leeds and Yorkshire roller-coaster since 2001
I see a good culinary year ahead.
Suffering on the Leeds and Yorkshire roller-coaster since 2001
It'll be a first for me, partaking in all the Championship fare! Bloody looking forward to it!
Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It
'proficiscor in una'
Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It
'proficiscor in una'
Spoke to Mackay yesterday - good bloke and great with the kids. He confirmed he'll miss the start of the season due to shoulder reconstruction.
His hourly rate of pay for "time on the pitch" must be pretty impressive by now..........
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
Up the Carnegie TYKES !
we could have off loaded Mckay at the end of last season and used the money to keep one of the other players. And before anyone mention contracts it hasent mattered with any of the other players who left
You guys may be out of the prem (temporarily in my opinion)but you've got some great trips ahead in the Championship - and good beer & grub to be enjoyed. I too liked visiting Donny!
I reckon you may have a bit of a battle on your hands with the Pirates, Bedford and Welsh pushing you hard. Anyway, enjoy the season (with or without a good pie & pint).
Best wishes from Exeter
I reckon you may have a bit of a battle on your hands with the Pirates, Bedford and Welsh pushing you hard. Anyway, enjoy the season (with or without a good pie & pint).
Best wishes from Exeter
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