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No one likes us. Do we care?


Sticky question

By The Bard of BD23
August 14 2019

The recent revelations about our club and the machinations that have ensured our continuing existence (at least into the forthcoming season) have left us with the unwanted title of the most hated club in the UK. Indeed the fans of some of our rivals are suggesting that we are not really a club at all. So the question that really needs answering is do we really care what other people think?

We appear to lead a charmed, if somewhat precarious life. To have survived the  financial meltdown that we had last season without any sort of penalty (from the RFU) is miraculous. The laws of libel prevent me from repeating other suggestions concerning our survival. One thing is certain - the RFU has bent over backwards to keep us in existence. There is a perception, amongst the fans of other clubs, that the rfu has a master plan to have a premiership club in Yorkshire and that is why we are still in the Championship, with no points deduction albeit with no players either. An unpopular fact which has helped to generate the waves of vitriol washing over LS6 at the moment. Personally I am uncomfortable with this idea. Conversely I am happy that there is still the prospect of going to games at Headingley next season.

The issue with the unpaid medical bills was a deal-breaker for me. It smacked of sharp practice and has left a bad taste in my mouth. However it has now (I believe) been settled. Move on.

The next factor in our rise in unpopularity is our current recruitment campaign. On this I am with the other supporters who, rightly, point out that we have suffered greatly over the years. The lifespan of a rugby player is all too brief. If we are paying a few quid more than another club in the region then it is natural for a player to want to maximise his income from rugby given that he does not know when that source of money will no longer be available. I considered the ethics of "poaching" contracted players. It is, in my opinion, unethical but until it is stopped by the game's governing body everybody does it. Move on.

We will, I am sure, be heavily reliant on dual registered players this season as we will not be able to muster a 32 man squad in the remaining weeks before the season starts. The smaller clubs in the Championship (we need to get used to the fact that we are one of them) have always relied on this method of strengthening their squads. Some cynics suggest that Hartpury stayed up at the expense of Richmond by astute use of DR players from 2 local prem clubs.

So there you have it. The club survives for now. We are unpopular. Many rugby fans think that the club should have been wound up. Others, like myself who have bought into the idea of  the Tykes want the club to survive. These are lean times. A long hard winter awaits us. No one likes us. Who cares?

 

Not me.

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No one likes us. Do we care?
Discussion started by TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged), 16/08/2019 08:45
TykesRugby.co.uk
TykesRugby.co.uk
16/08/2019 08:45
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:09:06:17:46:06 by Wildwillie .

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
16/08/2019 09:06
Well balanced article WW. To the best of my belief, the club paid all players' salaries for last season plus the medical bills (eventually), so we paid in full for the 6th place we gained. The broken promises for future commitments are very messy, and have caused genuine hardship to some. Plus we have had to make redundant staff and long-term players have been let go.
All caused by one financial issue. A major one.
I do not believe that the players who were brought in from NZ and elsewhere were lured here under false pretences, this would implicate Chris Stirling in a sting that he just wouldn't do IMHO.


The rfu have been sympathetic, but no doubt we will be staring relegation in the face this season. I have thought long and hard about what has gone on, and just about feel OK to continue my support of the club. Equally it is perfectly understable if other supporters (or even supporters of other clubs) feel that the club should have folded, or been forced to close down by a rfu points deduction.

MESSAGES->author
Beeston Lion
16/08/2019 12:10
'Glass houses' comes to mind with regard to derided actions attributed, rightly or wrongly, to Carnegie.
The running of a professional rugby club is largely a similar practice throughout, so just because these have not become common knowledge does not mean they don't happen!

Carnegiette2
Carnegiette2
16/08/2019 13:27
Good article

My feelings very similar to yours on the medicals. Very glad that’s sorted (however it was done)

Player recruitment- yes it’s been done to us but not (I don’t think) this close to the season. That said no-one has actually joined yet from other Yorkshire clubs (that we know of) and players can say no. I imagine it would be quite a leap of faith for any player who is contracted elsewhere to burn their bridges and join YC - given all the reasons highlighted in your post.

Absolutely we have to accept we are one of the smaller clubs (arguably I would say we were at the beginning of last season too- the league table certainly said so) Success this season would be 11th. Going to be a tough season but we’re still here (and I doubted we would be) so let’s hope it can be more about the rugby going forward.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
16/08/2019 13:51
Quote:
Carnegiette2
..... Going to be a tough season but we’re still here (and I doubted we would be) so let’s hope it can be more about the rugby going forward.

Yep. thumbs down

oopnorth
oopnorth
16/08/2019 16:43
No. Waste energy if you like. Life goes on.

MESSAGES->author
Gelbel
16/08/2019 16:52
Nobody likes me, everybody hates me
I think I'll go eat worms!
Big fat juicy ones
Eensie weensy squeensy ones
See how they wiggle and squirm!

I bite off the heads, and suck out the juice
And throw the skins away!
Nobody knows how fat I grow
On worms three times a day!

Obviously written by a prop.

I couldn't give a t0$$ if people hate us - give me triumph over adversity any day.

He who laughs last etc. #upem

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
16/08/2019 16:58
To be honest I do not think the word "hate" should be used in any sport, especially one with, apparently, "rugby values".

MESSAGES->author
Gelbel
16/08/2019 17:39
Try walking in my local with a Rugby Union shirt on - now that's hate.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
16/08/2019 18:26
Good point Gel, I have experienced similar when requesting a RU game on the TV in a pub. Even when nothing else on I just know I am going to get grief.

But back to the subject. When I used to work (the "lost" 40 years) there was always talk about the culture of the business. This was made clear to me when my company was the subject of a takeover from another company with a much inferior culture, and all the good people left (only duffers like me stayed).
Carnegie have a management culture that is IMHO a clinical business one. I think there is general agreement that we would like to see a more collaborative, open culture and I think Chris Stirling would have cemented this had circumstances been different.

Bobba
Bobba
16/08/2019 19:20
A management culture that is a clinical business one? After all that has occurred I find that incredible!
Head in sand syndrome! Next GH and the rest are to be nominated as business men of the decade for successfully bringing us to the brink of extinction. Why not!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:08:16:20:12:29 by Bobba.

JDH1
JDH1
16/08/2019 19:22
Agree with Beeston. All clubs are at it right to the top with sarries salary cap loop holes....

Some of the bollox on twitter from people outraged by the signings is unbelievable.

We survive and move on. People got to @#$%& and moan about something!

Tyko
Tyko
17/08/2019 10:59
I suggested that the RFU may have bent over backwards for us, possibly to maintain a more even geographical spread of "higher" level rugby, earlier on another thread. The idea didn't seem to get much support at the time.

At one of the open days at Kirkstall arranged by CS Geech did say that the RFU would "love" to have a premiership team in Yorkshire. So who knows?

JDH1
JDH1
17/08/2019 11:15
A better spread across the country would make a better competition.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
17/08/2019 11:59
I've said previously that I'm not particularly proud of some of the places the Carnegie management have gone to to ensure survival.

The backlash from former players on Twitter is entirely justified.

But much, in fact I'd say the vast majority, of comment on Twitter, Rolling Maul etc is based on supposition, rumour and assumptions that are simply not true and made by people who have no clue what has gone on and are obviously too lazy to research anything before posting ill thought out and groundless comments.

I have every sympathy for the players and staff of last season, they have been treated appallingly. But those under informed, lazy haters on their social media platform of choice can f#&k right off.

Rant over.

Bobba
Bobba
17/08/2019 12:11
Do I care if no one likes us? No! Leeds sport, no matter which one, has always attracted "we hate Leeds" syndrome. I think it's called jealousy!

MESSAGES->author
Gelbel
17/08/2019 12:54
100% agree and behind you Leeming.

I'm purposely asking irritating Qs of two idiots on Twitter this am and have been called a 70 year old has-been and a disgrace. Love it when people resort to insults when they can't justify themselves. Not sure why I am disgrace - I've yet to be told why.

Seems Richmond shouldn't have been relegated - shouldn't have lost so much matches then. Though TBH Hartpury's ringers have a lot to answer for.

Tricolour
Tricolour
17/08/2019 13:19
Quote:
Bobba
Do I care if no one likes us? No! Leeds sport, no matter which one, has always attracted "we hate Leeds" syndrome. I think it's called jealousy!

What have Leeds achieved for others to be jealous of?

headingleytyke2
headingleytyke2
17/08/2019 14:15
We went fo the arrogance of being called yorkshire . No wonder people did not like us. We are LEEDS

Carnegiette2
Carnegiette2
17/08/2019 17:09
Quote:
leemingtyke
I've said previously that I'm not particularly proud of some of the places the Carnegie management have gone to to ensure survival.
The backlash from former players on Twitter is entirely justified.

But much, in fact I'd say the vast majority, of comment on Twitter, Rolling Maul etc is based on supposition, rumour and assumptions that are simply not true and made by people who have no clue what has gone on and are obviously too lazy to research anything before posting ill thought out and groundless comments.

I have every sympathy for the players and staff of last season, they have been treated appallingly. But those under informed, lazy haters on their social media platform of choice can f#&k right off.

Rant over.

100% agree. Great post

Yorki
Yorki
18/08/2019 11:02
The problem of renaming to Yorkshire was driven by Geech not getting the other feeder clubs to publicly acknowledge that they working in partnership with YC. If regional clubs involved had agreed publicly that they were part of a joint partnership with YC it would have substantiated the Yorkshire title.

But as ever communication and marketing has always been poor with YC.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
19/08/2019 19:30
Agreed Geech's dream of a unified Yorkshire did not happen. We went ahead unilaterally and, as a frequent away supporter at Donny and Roth, I know the consequences!

RothwellTyke
RothwellTyke
19/08/2019 22:52
Leeming got it spot on in his post.

Only to add why waste energy caring what other club fans think. I feel for the lads from last year and the coaching team that was in place. But that has gone and we (the club) are doing what we can to get a team out that, I hope, will be able to compete. The energy has to be about supporting our club in the future

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
20/08/2019 08:23
Quote:
RothwellTyke
..... The energy has to be about supporting our club in the future

Yep (Sm134)

MESSAGES->author
Beeston Lion
20/08/2019 20:30
I take heed of the title of this thread and include fixture committee of Championship in this ………..
Pirates and Jersey away in January!!!!!!

MESSAGES->author
Madtyke
21/08/2019 06:44
I'm just gonna eat worms....

[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
22/08/2019 07:38
Good article on the Cov mb!

(Sm134)

Bobba
Bobba
22/08/2019 08:19
Quote:
Wildwillie
Good article on the Cov mb!
(Sm134)

That's us in a nutshell. (Sm152)

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
22/08/2019 18:56
A bit biased IMHO with a number of inaccuracies. To compare our situation unfavourably to the London Welsh "believe in a Fairy Godmother" disaster a bit mean, to say the least.

JDH1
JDH1
22/08/2019 19:26
I thought that too.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
22/08/2019 20:05
Quote:
almostatyke
a bit mean, to say the least.

But a well written article none the less. (Sm134)

Bobba
Bobba
22/08/2019 20:27
Oh Dear! It seems that there are still those that believe in Fairy Godmothers! As a child I soon discovered that, like Father Christmas bearing gifts, they do not exist. Time to grow up and leave those myths behind. Get real!

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
22/08/2019 20:44
Are you having a go at London Welsh, Bobba? They told everyone that a Fairy Godmother (somewhere in California I seem to recall) was going to back them big time. Surprise, surprise, after signing the best Championship players on offer, they just folded, leaving the Championship mid-season with a team short and annulling the results of matches already played.

Because they were a "traditional" team with a great history they are somehow beyond criticism, apparently.

Bobba
Bobba
22/08/2019 22:51
On the contrary Almost. I loved my trips to Richmond and London Welsh. I have many fond memories from those days. And yes they messed up. Moving from their traditional ground of The Old Deer Park was perhaps the start of their downfall. And yes, hoping for a "Fairy Godmother" bailing them out was another mistake. Taking on the RFU through the courts was yet another probable mistake. They made a rod for their own backs, so not really surprising that things went turtle! Sad but true. It does not however stop the memories of good times had!

As far as our Club (call it what you will) is concerned. The rot started a long time ago. You defend Mr Wright saying that he was stabbed in the back. There was no Brutus involved here. As a business man going into a refinancing situation. he will not have gone into it with his eyes closed. With the advice he no doubt had he will have known what that entailed. If he did not, then he was either very naïve or very stupid. I don't believe that for a moment!

Lets go back a little further. Once the Club failed to return to the Premiership and the Parachute payments were diminishing, money was being taken out of the Club as repayment of so called loans. Do you not think that will have had an adverse effect on the finances of the Club resulting in, eventually the club being sold, "debt free" to the current owners. Debt free or bankrupt? You tell me! The current directors then entered into an agreement whereby they were committed to remain at Headingley for the next ten years. At the same time, because the Directors were not experienced in how to run a professional rugby union club, Gary H was asked to step in as Chief Executive to do this for them. The commercial Director was another employee of Leeds Rugby and Rhinos who was to look after our interests. That worked out well, did it not!

You often refer to your conversations with various people. I too recall a conversation with David Dockray at our away match in Newlyn. Yes Geech had a vision of a Yorkshire Club, with Yorkshire playing staff that would in due course be supplying England with a multitude of players, and so our name changed. Sorry, not quite that simple and straightforward. David Dockray told me and others present, that the name change was effectively forced on the Club by Satsuma, a subsidiary company of Provident Finance a staunchly Bradford organization, who refused to back us if we had "Leeds" in our name. I have also sat down next to Gary Hetherington, with a few supporters present and a lot of what was promised never happened. So when employees come out with their party lines, it's foolish to accept what they say as Gospel.

As it is we have a Club that has let down its players, coaches, backroom staff and supporters. Despite this you continue to be bullish about the Club. You refer to the actions of London Welsh annulling results. Well I wonder how many we will annul this coming season. To date, with the season just round the corner and fixture lists already confirmed, we have six or so players signed up. I wonder how that will go down when the Magnificent Six turn out at our first fixture.

Finally, My apologies to Billy Ba and others who asked me to "give it a rest". I did say I would do so but sometimes, in the face of blind optimism it is time to take off those blinkers!

Enough said. Halleluiah! I hear you sing! End of!

Billy ba
Billy ba
23/08/2019 07:16
Good post Bobba

RothwellTyke
RothwellTyke
23/08/2019 08:34
Fantastic post Bobba

headingleytyke2
headingleytyke2
23/08/2019 08:36
Great list Bobba

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
23/08/2019 08:43
Yeah, great post Bobba. I didn't know about Satsumas involvement in the name change.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
23/08/2019 09:14
Bobba, OK you have summarised your feelings in one long post, very similar to a telephone conversation we had recently and clearly we are never going to agree.
Let's follow Billy ba's advice.

MESSAGES->author
SideStep
23/08/2019 10:05
Completely with you Bobba. As I imagine are the majority of the longterm (longsuffering) fan base.
If we could have just held on against Northampton in 2011 how things could have changed!!!

The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos

Bobba
Bobba
23/08/2019 16:39
Quote:
SideStep
Completely with you Bobba. As I imagine are the majority of the longterm (longsuffering) fan base.
If we could have just held on against Northampton in 2011 how things could have changed!!!
Sadly , missed that match. Unfortunately, having a detached Achilles tendon, I was sat at home, listening in disbelief, as we went 0-21, up only to throw the match. How we could have done for a single bonus point! That's consigned to history now. And we all know what happened next!

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
23/08/2019 18:31
Hope everything goes well with your forthcoming second Archilles operation Bob. At least you know what to expect this time.
And you won't be missing much at Headingley, for sure, so good timing.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
23/08/2019 18:43
Quote:
Bobba
........To date, with the season just round the corner and fixture lists already confirmed, we have six or so players signed up. I wonder how that will go down when the Magnificent Six turn out at our first fixture. .......

Bobba has touched on an interesting point here. How many players do we need to sign? How many DR players are we allowed? How many loanees can we field? As things stand we have six players signed. Will the rest of the number needed come as DR or loanees?

Bobba
Bobba
23/08/2019 18:51
Quote:
almostatyke
Hope everything goes well with your forthcoming second Archilles operation Bob. At least you know what to expect this time.
And you won't be missing much at Headingley, for sure, so good timing.

Thanks Almost. Much appreciated!(Sm128)(Sm160)

SimonG19
SimonG19
24/08/2019 14:23
Troll here. Just thought I would lob some vitriol your way before I get banned. (Sm124)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:08:24:18:07:32 by Wildwillie .

Billy ba
Billy ba
24/08/2019 14:37
You had time to post a messsge

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
24/08/2019 18:12
Thank you Simon. Time to foxtrot oscar! ((Sm134)

captainscarlet
bigm/ mark harrison.
25/08/2019 10:13
Is there a case for players safety in the scrum being put at jeopardy by lack of training and proper opposed training together, come match day opposition

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
25/08/2019 13:34
Quote:
bigm/ mark harrison.
Is there a case for players safety in the scrum being put at jeopardy by lack of training and proper opposed training together, come match day opposition

There is. If we get as far as day 1 of the new season I for one will be holding my breath as the first scrum is set.

(Sm124)

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
25/08/2019 20:16
Worrying times, we can only hope that, behind the scenes, in some dark corner of Yorkshire, there are 30 competent players secretly training.

But don't hold your breath.

Billy ba
Billy ba
25/08/2019 21:31
What happened to under 19/20 academy players from last year..

Bigjubba
Bigjubba
26/08/2019 06:30
Safely being managed through the system as any good academy would do?
Therefore not allowing a club to come in an play 6 or 7 of them in a very weak team.

Also probably looking at other Prem, Championship opportunities as they will not be tied to the club anymore.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
26/08/2019 09:37
Quote:
Bigjubba
.......Also probably looking at other Prem, Championship opportunities as they will not be tied to the club anymore.

Opportunities with YC will be exceedingly rare for the forseeable future. (Sm124)

Billy ba
Billy ba
28/08/2019 20:02
Has anyone else seen the list of our debts on rolling maul.. Interesting

JDH1
JDH1
28/08/2019 21:52
Yorkshire Tykes4,754,101.68
Leeds Cricket Football and Athletic Company402,842.82
Jonathan Wright400,000.00
Nic Mayhew 238,333.00
David Ward189,620.00
HM Revenue & Customs 185,898.00
Leeds Beckett University 109,699.93
Richard Mayhew 100,000.00
Antonio Kiri Kiri 80,000.00
Geech Consultancy Ltd 67,255.01
Jade Te Rure50,000.00
Fa'aunga Lemalu 49,245.00
CSM Talent48,960.00
Esportif 21,800.00
Phoenix Sports Management UK Limited 21,630.00
Catapult Sports PW Ltd 19,800.00
Bsynergie Sports Management Limited 14,400.00
Newcastle Falcons 11,706.43
Rugby Players Association 9,000.00
Craig Mitchell 8,000.00
BHP Chartered Accountants 5,400.00
Fit4Sport Ltd 5,244.43
Elijah Niko 5,000.00
J B Bruzulier 5,000.00
Mr Scott Barrow 5,000.00
WPL Grounds Ltd3,973.20
J Linley Properties 3,810.00
Dr J A Johnston 3,550.00
Wm Sports Management 3,480.00
Adapt 2,400.00
Cropper W1,985.00
Headingley Lodge 924.00
Sam Allan 808.80
John Bentley 650.00
Ted Wainwright509.81
Sarah Hattee 483.60
Scott Mogridge 387.00
Knstian Sharples 338.00
Dr Emma Farrell 300.00
James Watson300.00
Tracey Black Dental 240.00
Alex Grieve 237.84
Linley Builders 192.00
Lisa McCann 129.80
The Roundhegiäns Rugby Football Club Ltd 100.00

Some serous money for dave ward.... or i am out of touch with player wages?
I did expect Geech to work for free but did his wife say he never got a penny?
Even the mighty hegians owed 100 quid!

Tassigny74
Tassigny74
28/08/2019 22:05
Can we prorogue the debts?

JDH1
JDH1
28/08/2019 22:07
I assume these are the ones we paid 15% of?

MESSAGES->author
SideStep
29/08/2019 02:03
5 grand for scotty barrow?

The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos

captainscarlet
bigm/ mark harrison.
29/08/2019 06:56
its totally staggering that the club puts out no official news for nearly two weeks and expects the supporters to fall in behind the new regime , without a care in the world. No official news just leads to more speculation. These are the same supporters you will need to put their money through the turnstiles every 2 weeks. It would seem even the local papers cant be bothered with covering this story.

JDH1
JDH1
29/08/2019 17:14
Scott was involved with the 1st team last season as well as the academy I assume.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
29/08/2019 18:44
Quote:
bigm/ mark harrison.
its totally staggering that the club puts out no official news for nearly two weeks and expects the supporters to fall in behind the new regime , without a care in the world. No official news just leads to more speculation. These are the same supporters you will need to put their money through the turnstiles every 2 weeks. It would seem even the local papers cant be bothered with covering this story.

Totally agree. Whatever happened in the past, there is no need to continue the communications black-out policy. Even if there is no good news to announce they should keep us on-board by regular timely updates of what work is in progress. I made an invitation to Martyn Wood on this messageboard and does not reflect well that it has been ignored.

headingleytyke2
headingleytyke2
29/08/2019 19:22
He has probably been told to say nothing. Club were not happy the way Mr Stirling reacted with the fans. We learnt too much

MESSAGES->author
Geoff DC
29/08/2019 23:58
What happens if Leeds can't field a side for the 1st game of the Champs cup in 3 weeks time??

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
30/08/2019 12:40
Quote:
Geoff DC
What happens if Leeds can't field a side for the 1st game of the Champs cup in 3 weeks time??
Good question Geoff.

Northern Man
Northern Man
30/08/2019 13:16
I've heard there is a deadline in place, I can't remember what it is but it's fairly soon, that if a squad list is not submitted to the league then YC's place is withdrawn. Seems reasonable under the circumstances, but not sure what the knock-on effect will be further down the pyramid.

As has been said on a different thread many times, tick tock....

Tricolour
Tricolour
30/08/2019 20:47
Quote:
Geoff DC
What happens if Leeds can't field a side for the 1st game of the Champs cup in 3 weeks time??

Nottingham win.

Bobba
Bobba
31/08/2019 22:18
Nottingham win nothing! They are awarded the win by default. To win, you have to first play and compete first! Either way, do we care?

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