Northampton Saints
NEWS: Teams Up: AW Saints v Quins
By Happywifehappylife
February 1 2018
The team is up as Saints take on Quins at the Gardens kick off 7.45pm Friday 2nd February 2018
Heinrich Brüssow is poised to make his first appearance for Northampton Saints off the bench on Friday evening, with the hosts making five changes to the starting line-up from last week’s triumph over Sale Sharks.
The hosts – who earlier this week announced Hurricanes boss Chris Boyd as their new Director of Rugby from next season – can advance to the knockout stages of the competition with a victory over Harlequins at Franklin’s Gardens, kick-off 7.45pm, having reached the semi-finals in three of the past five seasons.
Piers Francis returns to the No.10 jersey and will partner up with scrum-half Cobus Reinach, who starts his third straight game in the Black, Green and Gold. British & Irish Lion George North will make his injury comeback, while Ken Pisi – who has three tries in Saints’ last four matches – is on the other wing and Ahsee Tuala continues at fullback. Nafi Tuitavake, scorer of last week’s match-winning try against Sale Sharks, and Tom Stephenson are retained in Northampton’s midfield, but one change is made in the front row with Mikey Haywood coming in to join Francois Van Wyk and Kieran Brookes.
Jamie Gibson and Teimana Harrison – who were rested last weekend – return to the back row, but the Franklin’s Gardens faithful could capture a glimpse of Brüssow off the bench as he pulls on the Saints jersey for the very first time. The South Africa international joined up with the squad a fortnight ago and will hope to make an impact in the closing stages, as will Ben Foden, Mitch Eadie and Nic Groom who return to the replacements list after being rested last week.
“This game presents another tough test for us in the Anglo-Welsh Cup, a competition we are very keen to advance in,” said Saints technical coaching consultant Alan Gaffney. “This is the first chance of the season to pick up some silverware, and we want to win everything that’s on offer to us as a Club. “Harlequins will be a tough test, but we are confident we can continue to build the momentum we have created in recent weeks with another victory heading back into the Aviva Premiership.
SAINTS: 15 Ahsee Tuala 14 Ken Pisi 13 Nafi Tuitavake 12 Tom Stephenson 11 George North 10 Piers Francis 9 Cobus Reinach 1 Francois Van Wyk 2 Mikey Haywood 3 Kieran Brookes 4 Api Ratuniyarawa 5 Christian Day (capt) 6 David Ribbans 7 Jamie Gibson 8 Teimana Harrison Replacements 16 Reece Marshall 17 Campese Ma’afu 18 Jamal Ford-Robinson 19 Mitch Eadie 20 Heinrich Brüssow 21 Nic Groom 22 Stephen Myler 23 Ben Foden
Quins: 15 Aaron Morris 14 Ross Chisholm 13 Joe Marchant 12 Henry Cheeseman 11 Alofa Alofa 10 James Lang 9 Dave Lewis 1 Mark Lambert 2 Joe Gray 3 Josh McNulty 4 Stan South 5 James Horwill 6 Archie White 7 Luke Wallace 8 James Chisholm (capt) Replacements 16 Charlie Piper 17 Cameron Holenstein 18 Josh Ibuanokpe 19 Sam Twomey 20 Mat Luamanu 21 Jono Kitto 22 Ian Prior 23 Cadan Murley
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StumbleuponTeams Up: AW Saints v Quins
Discussion started by Marching On , 01/02/2018 12:58
Marching On
01/02/2018 12:58
01/02/2018 12:58
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Looking at the 23 it's basically the strongest team we could put out bar Horne.
Looking at the inexperienced Quins team we need to be looking for tries for the bonus point, denying them a losing bonus point and racking up as many points as possible for points difference to try and get a home semi.
Looking at the inexperienced Quins team we need to be looking for tries for the bonus point, denying them a losing bonus point and racking up as many points as possible for points difference to try and get a home semi.
SAINTS V HARLEQUINS TEAM NEWS
Anglo-Welsh Cup, Round 4
Franklin's Gardens
Friday 2nd February, 2018
Kick-off: 7.45pm
SAINTS
15 Ahsee Tuala
14 Ken Pisi
13 Nafi Tuitavake
12 Tom Stephenson
11 George North
10 Piers Francis
9 Cobus Reinach
1 Francois Van Wyk
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Kieran Brookes
4 Api Ratuniyarawa
5 Christian Day (capt)
6 David Ribbans
7 Jamie Gibson
8 Teimana Harrison
Replacements
16 Reece Marshall
17 Campese Ma’afu
18 Jamal Ford-Robinson
19 Mitch Eadie
20 Heinrich Brüssow
21 Nic Groom
22 Stephen Myler
23 Ben Foden
Anglo-Welsh Cup, Round 4
Franklin's Gardens
Friday 2nd February, 2018
Kick-off: 7.45pm
SAINTS
15 Ahsee Tuala
14 Ken Pisi
13 Nafi Tuitavake
12 Tom Stephenson
11 George North
10 Piers Francis
9 Cobus Reinach
1 Francois Van Wyk
2 Mikey Haywood
3 Kieran Brookes
4 Api Ratuniyarawa
5 Christian Day (capt)
6 David Ribbans
7 Jamie Gibson
8 Teimana Harrison
Replacements
16 Reece Marshall
17 Campese Ma’afu
18 Jamal Ford-Robinson
19 Mitch Eadie
20 Heinrich Brüssow
21 Nic Groom
22 Stephen Myler
23 Ben Foden
Our forwards coach has an unhealthy obsession with line out options. - why play a lock at 6?
Lewis and Ben were our best defensive players last week (I was there) - both must feel hugely let down after strong performances to miss out to a lock.
I’m a big fan of Ribbans but he’s not a 6, he was consistently being told where to position himself at the breakdown last week by both Lewis and Ben.
Lewis and Ben were our best defensive players last week (I was there) - both must feel hugely let down after strong performances to miss out to a lock.
I’m a big fan of Ribbans but he’s not a 6, he was consistently being told where to position himself at the breakdown last week by both Lewis and Ben.
Strong side out, hopefully of a good win. Another change at 10 I see and I don't necessarily feel that not having a lock on the bench is a great idea. Perhaps they will bring Brüssow on at half time and move Ribbans into the second row.
Good to see North start, hoping that he has a good 80 minute run.
Good to see North start, hoping that he has a good 80 minute run.
Agree, slightly baffling that Ribbans is at 6. A back row to Gibson, T and Eadie would have been good with Ribbans and Broussow on bench
there have been a number of combinations in the pack. Is this a case of Gaffer having a look at all options and trying to figure out his best 8?
Whilst Api provides ball carrying and size to the scrum, i'm not sure that i'd consider him a true lineout option. Perhaps Ribbans at 6 is accounting for this.
I expect Brussow to come on at 7 then Gibson to play 6 and Ribbans to move to lock.
clearly we're going for the win with a team that on paper looks a lot stronger than the Quins side. My only gripe is that this isn't really an AW cup side, more like a premiership side. Does this show how far we've fallen or that we're just looking to build morale. If this is the case, it could be a while before we see the likes of Mitchell and Hutchinson getting mutch game time.
Whilst Api provides ball carrying and size to the scrum, i'm not sure that i'd consider him a true lineout option. Perhaps Ribbans at 6 is accounting for this.
I expect Brussow to come on at 7 then Gibson to play 6 and Ribbans to move to lock.
clearly we're going for the win with a team that on paper looks a lot stronger than the Quins side. My only gripe is that this isn't really an AW cup side, more like a premiership side. Does this show how far we've fallen or that we're just looking to build morale. If this is the case, it could be a while before we see the likes of Mitchell and Hutchinson getting mutch game time.
Stokey, AW is a development competition. Our first team needs development because we keep getting “Northamptoned”.
Quote:SaintMaul
Looking at the 23 it's basically the strongest team we could put out bar Horne.
Looking at the inexperienced Quins team we need to be looking for tries for the bonus point, denying them a losing bonus point and racking up as many points as possible for points difference to try and get a home semi.
Slightly surprising that Quins haven't gone in stronger. Just one bonus point for them would mean they top their group and get a home semi. They can be overtaken by Chiefs if they don't get anything out of this game and Chiefs get a 5-pointer. We need to make sure we win because Worcester are playing Dragons so should be on track for 5 points themselves.
Quote:Padmon
Stokey, AW is a development competition. Our first team needs development because we keep getting “Northamptoned”.
Good point well made!
Quote:Covbryan
Where is woody?
Carving a picture frame out of a 60 foot oak tree - apparently
Or dressed as Rambo upsetting dog walkers in Harlstone firs
Reference my earlier question.
Anybody know where woody is?
Injured,or just not picked?
Anybody know where woody is?
Injured,or just not picked?
Quote:SaintMaul
Looking at the 23 it's basically the strongest team we could put out bar Horne.
Looking at the inexperienced Quins team we need to be looking for tries for the bonus point, denying them a losing bonus point and racking up as many points as possible for points difference to try and get a home semi.
I think there’s a difference between inexperienced and unknown to us.... I think that’s a decent Quins side and of relatively the same strength (given availability).
having endured the Twickenham fixture i just hope that we have them wishing they never crept outside of the M25.
I actually think it is quite a strong Quins side. Where we might have the edge is on the bench. Ours looks to be stronger. Expect Brussow to come on and make a difference.
Quote:HungryLikeTheWolfQuote:SaintMaul
Looking at the 23 it's basically the strongest team we could put out bar Horne.
Looking at the inexperienced Quins team we need to be looking for tries for the bonus point, denying them a losing bonus point and racking up as many points as possible for points difference to try and get a home semi.
I think there’s a difference between inexperienced and unknown to us.... I think that’s a decent Quins side and of relatively the same strength (given availability).
Decent side and same strength?
Below are Quins caps in brackets. A lot of these players are not just inexperienced but way down the Quins pecking order and not all for being young and inexperienced. Particularly compare the benches. We are missing 5/6 players from our best 23. They have maybe 5 of their best match-day 23. Relatively the same strength?
15. Aaron Morris (13)
14. Ross Chisholm (87)
13. Joe Marchant (47)
12. Henry Cheeseman (12)
11. Alofa Alofa (46)
10. James Lang (16)
9. Dave Lewis (8)
1. Mark Lambert (224)
2. Joe Gray (143)
3. Josh McNulty (4)
4. Stan South (10)
5. James Horwill (50)
6. Archie White (14)
7. Luke Wallace (153)
8. James Chisholm (Captain, 49)
16. Charlie Piper (6)
17. Cameron Holenstein (2)
18. Josh Ibuanokpe (2)
19. Sam Twomey (55)
20. Mat Luamanu (59)
21. Jono Kitto (5)
22. Ian Prior (4)
23. Cadan Murley (1)
I said relatively the same strength given availability.... they’ve put out a decent side given what is available....
all of those backs are either experienced or a talent. Morris has wheels, Chisholm covers well for Brown, Marchant and Cheeseman both England age grade players, Alofa has super rugby experience, Lang been impressive from what I’ve seen, Lewis very experience chief and Glaws...
then you’ve got 2 senior players front row, Aussie multi capped lock and ex captain, England under 20 number 8 star, stalwart 7...
so yeah, given their availability, that’s a pretty handy side, they beat scarlets subs by 30 odd points last week?
I think we will win but it isn’t our top boys against a bunch of also rans....
all of those backs are either experienced or a talent. Morris has wheels, Chisholm covers well for Brown, Marchant and Cheeseman both England age grade players, Alofa has super rugby experience, Lang been impressive from what I’ve seen, Lewis very experience chief and Glaws...
then you’ve got 2 senior players front row, Aussie multi capped lock and ex captain, England under 20 number 8 star, stalwart 7...
so yeah, given their availability, that’s a pretty handy side, they beat scarlets subs by 30 odd points last week?
I think we will win but it isn’t our top boys against a bunch of also rans....
It would be interesting to see the number of caps alongside out side. I can't think that there would be 13 players with less than 20 caps.
Quote:HungryLikeTheWolf
I said relatively the same strength given availability.... they’ve put out a decent side given what is available....
all of those backs are either experienced or a talent. Morris has wheels, Chisholm covers well for Brown, Marchant and Cheeseman both England age grade players, Alofa has super rugby experience, Lang been impressive from what I’ve seen, Lewis very experience chief and Glaws...
then you’ve got 2 senior players front row, Aussie multi capped lock and ex captain, England under 20 number 8 star, stalwart 7...
so yeah, given their availability, that’s a pretty handy side, they beat scarlets subs by 30 odd points last week?
I think we will win but it isn’t our top boys against a bunch of also rans....
Well I guess if you think 2 senior internationals in the Quins 23 versus 12 in the Saints 23 is relatively even.
Quote:Saint Stokey
It would be interesting to see the number of caps alongside out side. I can't think that there would be 13 players with less than 20 caps.
I couldn't find a team sheet with number of caps but 5 Saints players have more caps between them than the entire Quins 23 (Myler, Foden, Day, Haywood and Pisi).
Quote:SuffolkSaint
Our forwards coach has an unhealthy obsession with line out options. - why play a lock at 6?
Lewis and Ben were our best defensive players last week (I was there) - both must feel hugely let down after strong performances to miss out to a lock.
I’m a big fan of Ribbans but he’s not a 6, he was consistently being told where to position himself at the breakdown last week by both Lewis and Ben.
I was there too and I've checked the stats.
LL 15 tackles, 1 missed
BN 11-4
DR 14-0
Quote:SaintMaulQuote:HungryLikeTheWolf
I said relatively the same strength given availability.... they’ve put out a decent side given what is available....
all of those backs are either experienced or a talent. Morris has wheels, Chisholm covers well for Brown, Marchant and Cheeseman both England age grade players, Alofa has super rugby experience, Lang been impressive from what I’ve seen, Lewis very experience chief and Glaws...
then you’ve got 2 senior players front row, Aussie multi capped lock and ex captain, England under 20 number 8 star, stalwart 7...
so yeah, given their availability, that’s a pretty handy side, they beat scarlets subs by 30 odd points last week?
I think we will win but it isn’t our top boys against a bunch of also rans....
Well I guess if you think 2 senior internationals in the Quins 23 versus 12 in the Saints 23 is relatively even.
That isn’t what I said ! I said relative to availability....
They’re resting what 4 players? The rest are playing international rugby or injured? We are resting 3?
We have the best reserve team in the country for a reason.... our squad is very deep but the first xv gun team ain’t that good. Cap balls up. If we should ever win a competition it’s this one .
If we were safely ensconced in the Top Four or looking good in Europe then fine, play a 'development team'in the AW. We're not in that position, we have shipped fifty points four times this season, Europe was a disaster other than one game and we are still tenth in the league. Last week at Sale we had at least fifteen senior players absent for one reason or another. The ideas that Alan Gaffney has brought to the club still need nurturing as we saw at Allianz Park. Three wins away from a trophy, albeit a minor one, is still a worthwhile target in this difficult season.
just as a comparison, i thought i'd look at the relative caps that Saints have:
SAINTS
15 Ahsee Tuala 61 (10)
14 Ken Pisi 129 (13)
13 Nafi Tuitavake 21 (8)
12 Tom Stephenson 52
11 George North 82 (69)
10 Piers Francis 10 (3)
9 Cobus Reinach 21 (9)
1 Francois Van Wyk 17
2 Mikey Haywood 183
3 Kieran Brookes 64 (16)
4 Api Ratuniyarawa 31 (28)
5 Christian Day (capt) 219
6 David Ribbans 18
7 Jamie Gibson 74
8 Teimana Harrison 94 (5)
Replacements
16 Reece Marshall 17
17 Campese Ma’afu 26 (50)
18 Jamal Ford-Robinson 16
19 Mitch Eadie 8
20 Heinrich Brüssow 0 (22)
21 Nic Groom 44
22 Stephen Myler 321 (1)
23 Ben Foden 239 (34)
club games in bold (according to offy) and international caps (according to Wiki) in brackets
SAINTS
15 Ahsee Tuala 61 (10)
14 Ken Pisi 129 (13)
13 Nafi Tuitavake 21 (8)
12 Tom Stephenson 52
11 George North 82 (69)
10 Piers Francis 10 (3)
9 Cobus Reinach 21 (9)
1 Francois Van Wyk 17
2 Mikey Haywood 183
3 Kieran Brookes 64 (16)
4 Api Ratuniyarawa 31 (28)
5 Christian Day (capt) 219
6 David Ribbans 18
7 Jamie Gibson 74
8 Teimana Harrison 94 (5)
Replacements
16 Reece Marshall 17
17 Campese Ma’afu 26 (50)
18 Jamal Ford-Robinson 16
19 Mitch Eadie 8
20 Heinrich Brüssow 0 (22)
21 Nic Groom 44
22 Stephen Myler 321 (1)
23 Ben Foden 239 (34)
club games in bold (according to offy) and international caps (according to Wiki) in brackets
isn’t current club caps kind of an irrelevant stat? shouldn’t it really be ‘top level club rugby games’
ie Brüssow has loads of super rugby, Nafi has 24, Horwill loads of super rugby, Lewis loads at Exeter and Glaws etc
to suggest Haywood is more experienced than Horwill who has captained Australia is a little deceiving...
Ideally you’d have ‘international, international age group, club’ and tot up the caps for each .
Anyway enough of being a statto, work to do....
ie Brüssow has loads of super rugby, Nafi has 24, Horwill loads of super rugby, Lewis loads at Exeter and Glaws etc
to suggest Haywood is more experienced than Horwill who has captained Australia is a little deceiving...
Ideally you’d have ‘international, international age group, club’ and tot up the caps for each .
Anyway enough of being a statto, work to do....
Chuffed Chris retains the captaincy
Ribbans is there as a ball carrier and 3rd lineout option - he will be relied on next season in that role, no disrespect to either Nutters or LL but that isn't their forte
Jamie G is our second lineout option (as noted - not Api's strength) but he isn't a tight field carrying option
Api starting has more impact than Api bench - especially opposite Horwill who is a beast
Ribbans is there as a ball carrier and 3rd lineout option - he will be relied on next season in that role, no disrespect to either Nutters or LL but that isn't their forte
Jamie G is our second lineout option (as noted - not Api's strength) but he isn't a tight field carrying option
Api starting has more impact than Api bench - especially opposite Horwill who is a beast
Quote:HungryLikeTheWolf
isn’t current club caps kind of an irrelevant stat? shouldn’t it really be ‘top level club rugby games’
ie Brüssow has loads of super rugby, Nafi has 24, Horwill loads of super rugby, Lewis loads at Exeter and Glaws etc
to suggest Haywood is more experienced than Horwill who has captained Australia is a little deceiving...
Ideally you’d have ‘international, international age group, club’ and tot up the caps for each .
Anyway enough of being a statto, work to do....
Feel free to produce this if you have time. Far fewer of the Quins 23 have gained significant number of caps outside of Quins than the Saints 23. So it will almost certainly show even more caps for the Saints 23 than the Quins 23, emphasising the difference in experience and class.
Your point about Horwill says it all. He's a class international player operator. But there is only one other international in the Quins 23 compared to 13 in the Saints (I didn't realise Nafi was an international).
You said Quins side is 'relatively the same strength' as the Saints team. The facts beg to differ.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018:02:02:15:58:41 by SaintMaul.
Number of caps number of games number of times they have visited twickenham, personally I really couldn’t care less. It’s a competition which if your not in it to win it then what’s the point of entering. The number of Wanderers games in a season does not give enough Rugby to everyone not in the game day 23 and if you revolve around you4 players regularly then the all become first 23 players at some time.
The choice of team is up to the managers and if they choose to rest players and therefore have them fresh next week when AP matches start I’m sure we won’t hear anyone complaining about those players having been rested and perhaps fresher than those playing AW games as well.
The choice of team is up to the managers and if they choose to rest players and therefore have them fresh next week when AP matches start I’m sure we won’t hear anyone complaining about those players having been rested and perhaps fresher than those playing AW games as well.
I feel like I've added fuel to this. I just wanted to show that there appears to be a difference in experience.
I would imagine that Quins have only shown Quins appearances so I tried to mirror those.
I would imagine that Quins have only shown Quins appearances so I tried to mirror those.
Fair play to Wallace of Quinns @#$%& up our breakdown play - made it look a bit too easy
Comon Brussow
Comon Brussow
Quote:Westrock
You look quite good against B teams!
Not a very nice thing to say about Horwill and Wallace
Quote:DeesaintQuote:Westrock
You look quite good against B teams!
Not a very nice thing to say about Horwill and Wallace
No need for the comment from Westrock, end of the day Quins and Saints put out two different style teams but in fairness to Saints you can only play against the team in front of you and Saints have done that very well. Good luck for the rest of the season and this comp.
[quote Westrock]You look quite good against B teams![/quote I'll let that one go but if you wish to post on this site we don't welcome antagonism
Quote:DeesaintQuote:Westrock
You look quite good against B teams!
Not a very nice thing to say about Horwill and Wallace
They looked more like Wallace and Grommit
[quote Happywifehappylife][quote Westrock]You look quite good against B teams![/quote I'll let that one go but if you wish to post on this site we don't welcome antagonism[/quote]
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.
Quote:NavyquinQuote:DeesaintQuote:Westrock
You look quite good against B teams!
Not a very nice thing to say about Horwill and Wallace
No need for the comment from Westrock, end of the day Quins and Saints put out two different style teams but in fairness to Saints you can only play against the team in front of you and Saints have done that very well. Good luck for the rest of the season and this comp.
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.[1]
Quote:WestrockQuote:NavyquinQuote:DeesaintQuote:Westrock
You look quite good against B teams!
Not a very nice thing to say about Horwill and Wallace
No need for the comment from Westrock, end of the day Quins and Saints put out two different style teams but in fairness to Saints you can only play against the team in front of you and Saints have done that very well. Good luck for the rest of the season and this comp.
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.[1]
Only way to regulate is to introduce restrictions and actually enforce them not like the salary cap.
[quote Westrock][quote Happywifehappylife][quote Westrock]You look quite good against B teams![/quote I'll let that one go but if you wish to post on this site we don't welcome antagonism[/quote]
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.[/quote]
Yes we know that but thank you for confirming it & we can only play against the side put up against us
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018:02:02:21:37:37 by Happywifehappylife.
The Anglo-Welsh Cup (Welsh: Cwpan Eingl-Gymreig), is a cross-border rugby union knock-out cup competition featuring the 12 Premiership Rugby clubs and the four Welsh regions. The competition is seen by most clubs as a tournament to experiment with younger and upcoming players, with many regular team starters rested from the match day squad. Prior to 2005 the cup was an all-English competition.[/quote]
Yes we know that but thank you for confirming it & we can only play against the side put up against us
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018:02:02:21:37:37 by Happywifehappylife.
Poor little Westrock clearly has nothing much on this evening !!😁😁
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