Northampton Saints
Saints v Saracens Premiership Playoff 31/05/24
By Saint Ted
May 30 2024
This is the Premiership Play off Northampton Saints v Saracens match thread
Who: Northampton Saints v Saracens
Where: Franklins Gardens
When: Friday 31st May 2024; 19:45
How do I watch: TNT 1/TNT Ultimate/Discovery +
Tickets: SOLD OUT - Try the Saints Sinners ticket exchange or the official one FOUND 'ERE
Match day info: Guide to the Gardens
Saints take: Saints O'ffy
Sarries Take: Sarries O'ffy
Officials:
Referee: Christophe Ridley
Assistant Referees: Anthony Woodthorpe and Andrew Jackson
No.4: Dan Jones
TMO: Ian Tempest
| Northampton Saints | Saracens | |
| George Furbank | 15 | Elliot Daly |
| Tommy Freeman | 14 | Alex Lewington |
| Burger Odendaal | 13 | Lucio Cinti |
| Fraser Dingwall | 12 | Nick Tompkins |
| Ollie Sleightholme | 11 | Tom Parton |
| Fin Smith | 10 | Owen Farrell (c) |
| Alex Mitchell | 9 | Ivan van Zyl |
| Alex Waller | 1 | Mako Vunipola |
| Curtis Langdon | 2 | Jamie George |
| Trevor Davison | 3 | Marco Riccioni |
| Alex Moon | 4 | Maro Itoje |
| Alex Coles | 5 | Nick Isiekwe |
| Courtney Lawes (c) | 6 | Juan Martin Gonzalez |
| Tom Pearson | 7 | Ben Earl |
| Juarno Augustus | 8 | Billy Vunipola |
| Replacements: | ||
| Sam Matavesi | 16 | Theo Dan |
| Emmanuel Iyogun | 17 | Eroni Mawi |
| Elliot Millar Mills | 18 | Ollie Hoskins |
| Temo Mayanavanua | 19 | Hugh Tizard |
| Sam Graham | 20 | Theo McFarland |
| Lewis Ludlam | 21 | Tom Willis |
| Tom James | 22 | Aled Davies |
| George Hendy | 23 | Alex Lozowski |
Unavailable for selection:
Callum Braley.
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StumbleuponSaints v Saracens Premiership Playoff 31/05/24
Discussion started by Marching On , 30/05/2024 12:29
Marching On
30/05/2024 12:29
30/05/2024 12:29
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:07:08:18:26 by Saint Ted.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:07:08:18:26 by Saint Ted.
Wow, good side! Ramm not included, 6:2 split with Sam and Luds benched. Some tough calls but I trust the coaches that Pearson is the right option. Agree that Fremo offers more from the wing and Odendaal has looked very solid with dingers in the midfield. A shame for Hutch and Ramm but with luck there’s still another game left!
No Segun, Lozowski on the bench.Willis too meaning Billy starts with Mako, has sentiment got the better of McCall?
As good a side as we can pick i would say. Though I would have gone for a 5-3 split on the bench to allow a proper centre as cover
Ramm has played not 100% and Hendy stepped up so much from last year, particularly his defence. Who’d be a coach to make those tough calls.
A lot of the Sarrues big names (potential) last game. Will the vunipola boys have a last hurrah. From my point of view, I hope not, but they’ve done wonders for them.
A lot of the Sarrues big names (potential) last game. Will the vunipola boys have a last hurrah. From my point of view, I hope not, but they’ve done wonders for them.
Good side, no arguments.
Strong opposition, but I think we have a better bench overall. So let's get at 'em!
Strong opposition, but I think we have a better bench overall. So let's get at 'em!
Quote:lost in duston
Sarries board not so enamoured with the selection of their team.
I am surprised, I see that Sarries side and think we have a tough challenge ahead of us.
We really need to be on our game at the breakdown and defensively.
COYS
Quote:Longers
Good side, no arguments.
Strong opposition, but I think we have a better bench overall. So let's get at 'em!
We have a stronger bench, never thought I’d hear that a few years ago.
Perfect starting 15 with Odendaal and Pearson fit.
Dare I suggest a 5-3 bench, with Courtney covering second row?
Dare I suggest a 5-3 bench, with Courtney covering second row?
Quote:St. Andy
We have a stronger bench, never thought I’d hear that a few years ago.
You do?
Freeman starting on the wing and Pearson at 7 is what I didn't want to see.
No Goode and Segun (our sole flair back three player and exSaint) is a shame. Lozo back is great but it's a huge ask to come straight back into a SF.
Tbh feeling pretty despondent and it seems the coaches have doubled-down on poor calls they've been making all season. Billy shouldn't be in the 23.
IF we're in touch when the bench empties I think we have a shot.
*sigh*
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:30:12:50:48 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:St. Andy
We have a stronger bench, never thought I’d hear that a few years ago.
You do?
Freeman starting on the wing and Pearson at 7 is what I didn't want to see.
No Goode and Segun (our sole flair back three player and exSaint) is a shame. Lozo back is great but it's a huge ask to come straight back into a SF.
Tbh feeling pretty despondent and it seems the coaches have doubled-down on poor calls they've been making all season. Billy shouldn't be in the 23.
IF we're in touch when the bench empties I think we have a shot.
I’ve no idea why you quote my post as I was quoting a previous post and thus has no relevance to the points you make.
*sigh*
I do what? My post was quoting another post and I had benches of some years ago in mind not tomorrows.
That's a fantastic Saints team. Dingwall's centre partner was the big question on the board and I think Odendaal is a great call by the coaches. Had his best game for us against Munster(?) before that injury and offers that big lump magnetism that can help to free up space around him when we're on the attack. Brilliant to have Pearson's inexplicable explosive power around the park too.
It's all getting very exciting - but I really hate this (well-earned) "favourites" tag.
It's all getting very exciting - but I really hate this (well-earned) "favourites" tag.
Loads of quality in the Sarries squad, but I do think our backs and bench edge theirs.
Looking forward to Friday night lights. The atmospheres at FG since the Sarries game in March have been consistently loud, in particular the Munster game. It's always usually loud under the floodlights, let's step it up again, one game between us and Twickers - let's give Lewis, Courts, the Alex's and all our leavers the FG send off they deserve. COYS
Looking forward to Friday night lights. The atmospheres at FG since the Sarries game in March have been consistently loud, in particular the Munster game. It's always usually loud under the floodlights, let's step it up again, one game between us and Twickers - let's give Lewis, Courts, the Alex's and all our leavers the FG send off they deserve. COYS
Best selection we could have hoped for. Rightly favourites but this is Sarries and they look well equipped to target the lineout. Also surprised to see Billy start. No Goode is massive for them, just read only other semi or final he’s missed was in 2009 against us.
Really hope we start sharp and lively after a few weeks rest! Can’t wait for this now. COYS.
Really hope we start sharp and lively after a few weeks rest! Can’t wait for this now. COYS.
My totally unscientific best of both teams selection has Saints with 8 of the XV to Sarries 3 with 4 pretty much equal. 0 Saints from the bench to Sarries 4 with 4 equal (Hendy v Lozo impossible to call as don't cover the same position)
Plus obviously bias
The other important things are Home advantage, Saints. Captaincy, Sarries. Form, Saints.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:30:14:17:44 by OldMarovian.
Plus obviously bias
The other important things are Home advantage, Saints. Captaincy, Sarries. Form, Saints.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:30:14:17:44 by OldMarovian.
6-2 bench interesting. Concerns me slightly with some recent injuries in the back line, but I'll trust the coaches to make the right call.
That is a Saints team that should worry any opposition, especially at home. The last time I felt this confident going into a knock out game was when we beat Tigers at home the season we won. Brilliant to be able to pick our best team with no injuries. Compare that with Sarries who lost Goode and Maitland to injury as part of their final game of the season game v Sale and Farrell had to play whilst not 100% fit and Tuilagi got a hamstring injury in the same game.
I’m really pleased Sarries have picked on reputations over form. McCall’s loyalty is noble but, for me, misplaced. We should be targeting their scrum which has been vulnerable.
An away team hasn’t won in a Premiership semi final since 2015. Betting odds are 4/7 for a Saints victory and 6/4 for Sarries to win with Sky Bet or 8/15 v 17/10 with Paddy Power. Sports Mole predicts a 38-29 victory for Saints.
The Met Office weather forecast suggests possible rain earlier in the day but dry for the game which also works in our favour.
If we play how we know we are capable of playing we should do well.
COYS!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:30:14:47:35 by Saint Maul.
I’m really pleased Sarries have picked on reputations over form. McCall’s loyalty is noble but, for me, misplaced. We should be targeting their scrum which has been vulnerable.
An away team hasn’t won in a Premiership semi final since 2015. Betting odds are 4/7 for a Saints victory and 6/4 for Sarries to win with Sky Bet or 8/15 v 17/10 with Paddy Power. Sports Mole predicts a 38-29 victory for Saints.
The Met Office weather forecast suggests possible rain earlier in the day but dry for the game which also works in our favour.
If we play how we know we are capable of playing we should do well.
COYS!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:30:14:47:35 by Saint Maul.
Sarries fan. Personally I wouldn't pick any of our backs over yours. On current form Gonzalez and Earl only to get into a combined team and I would pick Dan over both starting hookers. I wouldn't start Mako and wouldn't have Billy in the 23. I will be at FG but fear a drubbing especially if Saints start well.
I have Cinti over Odendaal in the backs. Otherwise draws or Saints.
Forwards have Lawes and JMG as a draw based on what they've done for their clubs this season. Maro over Moon. Earl over Pearson.
Same concerns as JimG though.
What's the line about all (most of?) the right keys just not in the right order?
Forwards have Lawes and JMG as a draw based on what they've done for their clubs this season. Maro over Moon. Earl over Pearson.
Same concerns as JimG though.
What's the line about all (most of?) the right keys just not in the right order?
Back row battle is going to be huge. Expecting saints to tell Pearson and Augustus to empty the tank over 50 mins then bring on ludlam and graham.
That really is a really stacked team, the bench is seriously impressive.
If we just have parity with Saracens up front, our backs have theirs all day long.
Very pleased the CL is captain, never overly emotional, brings that calm energy (that Furbank) also brought, but that Ludlam doesn't possess imo.
Pearson back is HUGE.
If we just have parity with Saracens up front, our backs have theirs all day long.
Very pleased the CL is captain, never overly emotional, brings that calm energy (that Furbank) also brought, but that Ludlam doesn't possess imo.
Pearson back is HUGE.
Must admit after the Bath game I was worried about Odendaal as he took what looked like a heavy knock to a knee.
I wonder what time would be acceptable to have my first beer on Friday in an attempt to numb my nerves
I think 6-2 bench split is a good call. Think sarries will target forward dominance so as long as we get parity our backs should do the rest. Obvious risk is bad luck with injuries to backs but worth taking that risk.
The home semi final against tigers under the lights was the best atmosphere I’ve ever experienced at saints (and up there with anything elsewhere I’ve experienced). The crowd willled the win with 14 men and the players visibly connected with that energy and got over the line. Need the same energy tomorrow night!
The home semi final against tigers under the lights was the best atmosphere I’ve ever experienced at saints (and up there with anything elsewhere I’ve experienced). The crowd willled the win with 14 men and the players visibly connected with that energy and got over the line. Need the same energy tomorrow night!
I like the squad but wonder if we’ve got the back row / bench balance right? I see both Pearson & Augustus as high energy big play players and Ludlam & Graham as ruck to ruck grafters. Would’ve expected to see them split differently, Pearson and Graham off the bench or vice versa
George & Fin at T20 tonight having fun.
1 out of 3 tick....
Now..let's continue tomorrow
1 out of 3 tick....
Now..let's continue tomorrow
Quote:saintsfella
I like the squad but wonder if we’ve got the back row / bench balance right? I see both Pearson & Augustus as high energy big play players and Ludlam & Graham as ruck to ruck grafters. Would’ve expected to see them split differently, Pearson and Graham off the bench or vice versa
I think in a semi you pick the 3 best player and I think they have it spot on. Saints will want a fast start and to build a lead. Let them empty the tank and graham and ludlam are 2 great players to bring on with 20 to go. If sarries are within a score at 60 mins they will fancy the win . Let's put them away before it gets to that.
Feeling nervous. Partly because we have our best team, are at home and are favourites. So raised expectations and it would be gutting if we lost. Particularly as I took a punt and bought final tickets in advance! COYS!!!
It’s a good point RE back row balance for breakdown but it’s a collective responsibility. When we’ve been particularly loose around the breakdown (perhaps Munster away - lost a lot of ball), I noticed a massive swing the other way in our next fixture with many bodies securing every breakdown. The sweet spot is somewhere in the middle and I’m sure that will be a focus for the coaches given how hard the Saracens compete there. Jackling-wise, can’t do much better than the long arms of Lawes and to be fair, Waller can be a real rock over the ball. Graham will bring good breakdown disruption off the bench. I do think this is our best team.
Jeez I’m nervous.
Jeez I’m nervous.
I wonder if the selection of Pearson to start (and one of the reasons for a 6:2) is that it’s easier to control Match minutes when a player starts?
Quote:I am providing cover (on-call) at work today so you have to have an extra pint for me. Otherwise I would a that beer with my morning eggs.....Deesaint
I wonder what time would be acceptable to have my first beer on Friday in an attempt to numb my nerves
On reflection, the pack is almost identical to that where we beat Sarries at home on the Friday night. Only difference is Iyogun and Waller have switched. Also have EMM over Prowse on the bench. Ludlam and Graham both from the bench that time too.
I was also concerned how strong Sarries team looked but it appears almost identical to that night too.
Let’s make sure we ensure it follows form for the result too.
COYS!!!!
I was also concerned how strong Sarries team looked but it appears almost identical to that night too.
Let’s make sure we ensure it follows form for the result too.
COYS!!!!
I actually think the other way on the 60 min mark. Last 20 we can really make speed and pace count.
Quote:Saint Maul
Feeling nervous. Partly because we have our best team, are at home and are favourites. So raised expectations and it would be gutting if we lost. Particularly as I took a punt and bought final tickets in advance! COYS!!!
Sarries have got 20 internationals in their 23, which is more than we have. We're clearly the underdogs.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:31:12:36:01 by Matthew.
As they would say in the states. ‘Stop the count, stop the count!’
Well done lads!!
Well done lads!!
Great game
No injuries( hopefully graham ok)
Extra days rest
We will be champs in 8 days
No injuries( hopefully graham ok)
Extra days rest
We will be champs in 8 days
Quote:tigersimon
Waller
Langdon
Lawes
Mitchell
Smith
Furbank
All brilliant
You missed Davison, has to be a england tourist aswell this summer!
How many scrum penalties did we win against an all international front five!
And how many caps between them?
I thought burger had a great game too. He may well have played his way into the final first 15
Just wow. Watched it on TV under difficult circumstances, but enjoyed the result so much and the performance was incredible. Sorry, but I have no soft spot for Saracens and Saints really were the better team.
bring on the other team next week. . whoever it is, we can do this.
bring on the other team next week. . whoever it is, we can do this.
Quote:I think Burger is a better fit especially if Ollie Lawrence will be coming down channel 3 right at him.Saint dolph
I thought burger had a great game too. He may well have played his way into the final first 15
Great game. Amazing atmosphere. Sarries executed their game plan well. Scrum was massive. 2 of the best 6’s in the world on display - a privilege to watch - thought Courtney edged it. Actually think Courtney is playing the best rugby of his career. Augustus outplayed Earl - immense. Farrell absolute class at the end and whilst his PR might not be great he is undoubtedly one of the greatest players of his generation. Well done Saints - go win the final.
Thank you for having us last night it was a great night out. Good luck for the final, you have been outstanding this year.
Quote:siNBin
Thank you for having us last night it was a great night out. Good luck for the final, you have been outstanding this year.
That was a real contest
Both teams giving everything
( have to say I’m still smiling)
It was also special to be able to watch some fantastic players who have given so much to our sport and now moving on
Particularly Mako, Billy and Owen
While we have one more with Courtney and Lewis
I
It’s definitely going to be different next year
Many congrats from me in Bristol. Thought I had to share this version of the highlights with you (Fabulous Italian commentary)
[youtu.be]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:08:05:20 by Rich..
[youtu.be]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:08:05:20 by Rich..
It was nice and loud through the game, but the bubbling undercurrent of tribalistic nastiness from the younger fans is not a welcome addition.
We've always heard the occasional drunk moron shouting during the kick silence, but yesterday it was coming from the younger saints fans in terrace D at least. The regular raising of fingers and other gestures at opposition fans and players was also on display.
Worst of all however is the overselling saints keep doing of the terrace, so fans are stuck in the walkway with no terrace space to join. The next problem come when the stewards try to do their jobs, so the drunk fans start being abusive and aggressive towards the stewards. Completely out of order and and avoidable.
Hopefully it was just because of the drink glowing due to the Friday night and the occasion, but it's been creeping in gradually throughout the year since the form has improved and gate has increased.
In 25 years on that terrace, I've never known such an unpleasant atmosphere that's hostile towards supporters. Actually spoiled my enjoyment of the game.
We've always heard the occasional drunk moron shouting during the kick silence, but yesterday it was coming from the younger saints fans in terrace D at least. The regular raising of fingers and other gestures at opposition fans and players was also on display.
Worst of all however is the overselling saints keep doing of the terrace, so fans are stuck in the walkway with no terrace space to join. The next problem come when the stewards try to do their jobs, so the drunk fans start being abusive and aggressive towards the stewards. Completely out of order and and avoidable.
Hopefully it was just because of the drink glowing due to the Friday night and the occasion, but it's been creeping in gradually throughout the year since the form has improved and gate has increased.
In 25 years on that terrace, I've never known such an unpleasant atmosphere that's hostile towards supporters. Actually spoiled my enjoyment of the game.
Well those fans need educating or removing. No place in our Sport and no place in our ground.
Saracens fans are mostly a good bunch who just want to follow their team. They deserve our respect regardless of what issue we may have with the running of their club.
I am actually quite glad their old stars are moving on. The links with the cheating past are fading and hopefully in time we can just have a normal rivalry.
Saracens fans are mostly a good bunch who just want to follow their team. They deserve our respect regardless of what issue we may have with the running of their club.
I am actually quite glad their old stars are moving on. The links with the cheating past are fading and hopefully in time we can just have a normal rivalry.
How great was it to see the class of 2014 around the ground too? Saw Jim, Dylan, Luther, and Myler all on the big screen and surely there must have been others too.
Quote:Buzzer
Just wow. Watched it on TV under difficult circumstances, but enjoyed the result so much and the performance was incredible. Sorry, but I have no soft spot for Saracens and Saints really were the better team.
bring on the other team next week. . whoever it is, we can do this.
Classy 😒
Perhaps this should be a different thread, but it's not just the team old guard moving on. Langdon has clearly shown he deserves be starting hooker for England so who should be the new England captain?
Why don't I like Saracens? Apart from the cheating for which the club still seem unable to actually accept?
15 minutes in, Courtney is penalised for "going off his feet".
Van Zyl pats Courtney's stomach while he's still on the ground - bad enough, but....
Nick Tomkins puts out his hand to give him a "haul up".
Itoje smacks his arm down as though to say "don't help him".
Unnecessary and unsporting.
Respect is earned, not just given. He should learn that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:10:54:05 by Longers.
15 minutes in, Courtney is penalised for "going off his feet".
Van Zyl pats Courtney's stomach while he's still on the ground - bad enough, but....
Nick Tomkins puts out his hand to give him a "haul up".
Itoje smacks his arm down as though to say "don't help him".
Unnecessary and unsporting.
Respect is earned, not just given. He should learn that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:10:54:05 by Longers.
Now is not the time for griping. Yes, a lot of history. But still some massive figures in rugby playing in that game. That reputation may be tarred for some but they are still amazing players. I actually thought the interview with Farrell was touching at the end.
If I was a Sarries fan I would probably be fuming with Mark McColl and his comments about Farrell not being fit. That may have been a pivotal decision.
Loved the Saints not getting carried away at the end. Not done yet.
Seeing those old faces, that was a moment. There is a lot to be proud of with the Saints. I always think of Biggar saying multiple times in interviews that his best club was the Saints. There is seomthing special (!) about the club.
I was concerned that beating Sarries twice already may have shown them the way to break us. And they had a plan. A tough one. It says something about the team this year that with ten minutes to go I still believed that we could do it - in previous seasons we didn’t have the metal to hold. The determination at the end to get the ball after the restart was incredible. And what was that, a third of our won scrum penalties for the whole season came from this one game. Sarries plan was to bring edge, we returned it.
I was supposed to be flying back to the US on Saturday, have just changed my flight so I can fly back on Friday and then watch the final with my wife.
If I was a Sarries fan I would probably be fuming with Mark McColl and his comments about Farrell not being fit. That may have been a pivotal decision.
Loved the Saints not getting carried away at the end. Not done yet.
Seeing those old faces, that was a moment. There is a lot to be proud of with the Saints. I always think of Biggar saying multiple times in interviews that his best club was the Saints. There is seomthing special (!) about the club.
I was concerned that beating Sarries twice already may have shown them the way to break us. And they had a plan. A tough one. It says something about the team this year that with ten minutes to go I still believed that we could do it - in previous seasons we didn’t have the metal to hold. The determination at the end to get the ball after the restart was incredible. And what was that, a third of our won scrum penalties for the whole season came from this one game. Sarries plan was to bring edge, we returned it.
I was supposed to be flying back to the US on Saturday, have just changed my flight so I can fly back on Friday and then watch the final with my wife.
Quote:Matthew
How great was it to see the class of 2014 around the ground too? Saw Jim, Dylan, Luther, and Myler all on the big screen and surely there must have been others too.
Thought I saw Nick Beal sat to the right of Myler?
Quote:FatAlanQuote:Matthew
How great was it to see the class of 2014 around the ground too? Saw Jim, Dylan, Luther, and Myler all on the big screen and surely there must have been others too.
Thought I saw Nick Beal sat to the right of Myler?
Wasn't Bealer sat with Jim? Or have I misremembered that?
Also thought, at one stage, Kenny Logan was in a shot
Quote:Merlin-k
Now is not the time for griping. Yes, a lot of history. But still some massive figures in rugby playing in that game. That reputation may be tarred for some but they are still amazing players. I actually thought the interview with Farrell was touching at the end.
If I was a Sarries fan I would probably be fuming with Mark McColl and his comments about Farrell not being fit. That may have been a pivotal decision.
Loved the Saints not getting carried away at the end. Not done yet.
Seeing those old faces, that was a moment. There is a lot to be proud of with the Saints. I always think of Biggar saying multiple times in interviews that his best club was the Saints. There is seomthing special (!) about the club.
I was concerned that beating Sarries twice already may have shown them the way to break us. And they had a plan. A tough one. It says something about the team this year that with ten minutes to go I still believed that we could do it - in previous seasons we didn’t have the metal to hold. The determination at the end to get the ball after the restart was incredible. And what was that, a third of our won scrum penalties for the whole season came from this one game. Sarries plan was to bring edge, we returned it.
I was supposed to be flying back to the US on Saturday, have just changed my flight so I can fly back on Friday and then watch the final with my wife.
If Sarries had a decent scrum then they would have won that match with something to spare. The Furbank tackle on Dan was also strangely ignored by the TMO. Any joy at Saracens demise and decline is premature, although Farrell is a genuine force of nature that will be impossible to replace. Good luck to Saints in the final but I don't think this will be the beginning of a lengthy reign at the top.
Quote:Toga
If Sarries had a decent scrum then they would have won that match with something to spare. The Furbank tackle on Dan was also strangely ignored by the TMO. Any joy at Saracens demise and decline is premature, although Farrell is a genuine force of nature that will be impossible to replace. Good luck to Saints in the final but I don't think this will be the beginning of a lengthy reign at the top.
If Newcastle had the best team they'd be in the final
Quote:Santiago
Perhaps this should be a different thread, but it's not just the team old guard moving on. Langdon has clearly shown he deserves be starting hooker for England so who should be the new England captain?
Langdon should definitely be touring this Summer but starting against the ABs?
Think you understimate JG’s experience and Leadership!
Merlin-k I think the simple reality is that whilst Farrell wasn't fit he is still a better option at 10 at 80% than the other we realistically had, Manu Vunipola.
Goode had a season ending injury a fortnight ago. Had he not he may have played at 10? Lozo is another option but this was his first game back after almost the entire season out.
I'm a massive fan of Manu Vunipola, feel we haven't got the best out of him and am sad to see him move on but it would have been a huge shout to start him.
The reality is Farrell with his full kicking game (another 22/22!) might have been game-changing but that's not the Farrell that was available. As it was he played very well indeed and Daly kicked all his shots at the sticks so I think it worked out ok.
Goode had a season ending injury a fortnight ago. Had he not he may have played at 10? Lozo is another option but this was his first game back after almost the entire season out.
I'm a massive fan of Manu Vunipola, feel we haven't got the best out of him and am sad to see him move on but it would have been a huge shout to start him.
The reality is Farrell with his full kicking game (another 22/22!) might have been game-changing but that's not the Farrell that was available. As it was he played very well indeed and Daly kicked all his shots at the sticks so I think it worked out ok.
Indeed Farrell had a better game than the last time Saints and Sarries came together. Last time he got rattled, but this game he kept focus. Great tackle on Finn Smith.
I think we will have to see if Furbank gets cited during the week. It was one of those that could go either way. He wasn’t the primary tackler, Dans movement was affected by the first tackle, and I don’t think it was a straight head to head.
All rivalries aside, I think it was a great example of rugby.
I think we will have to see if Furbank gets cited during the week. It was one of those that could go either way. He wasn’t the primary tackler, Dans movement was affected by the first tackle, and I don’t think it was a straight head to head.
All rivalries aside, I think it was a great example of rugby.
Quote:Merlin-k
Indeed Farrell had a better game than the last time Saints and Sarries came together. Last time he got rattled, but this game he kept focus. Great tackle on Finn Smith.
I think we will have to see if Furbank gets cited during the week. It was one of those that could go either way. He wasn’t the primary tackler, Dans movement was affected by the first tackle, and I don’t think it was a straight head to head.
All rivalries aside, I think it was a great example of rugby.
He won't get cited but that's not proof that it shouldn't have been a card. It easily passed the threshold for a yellow.
Quote:TogaQuote:Merlin-k
Now is not the time for griping. Yes, a lot of history. But still some massive figures in rugby playing in that game. That reputation may be tarred for some but they are still amazing players. I actually thought the interview with Farrell was touching at the end.
If I was a Sarries fan I would probably be fuming with Mark McColl and his comments about Farrell not being fit. That may have been a pivotal decision.
Loved the Saints not getting carried away at the end. Not done yet.
Seeing those old faces, that was a moment. There is a lot to be proud of with the Saints. I always think of Biggar saying multiple times in interviews that his best club was the Saints. There is seomthing special (!) about the club.
I was concerned that beating Sarries twice already may have shown them the way to break us. And they had a plan. A tough one. It says something about the team this year that with ten minutes to go I still believed that we could do it - in previous seasons we didn’t have the metal to hold. The determination at the end to get the ball after the restart was incredible. And what was that, a third of our won scrum penalties for the whole season came from this one game. Sarries plan was to bring edge, we returned it.
I was supposed to be flying back to the US on Saturday, have just changed my flight so I can fly back on Friday and then watch the final with my wife.
If Sarries had a decent scrum then they would have won that match with something to spare. The Furbank tackle on Dan was also strangely ignored by the TMO. Any joy at Saracens demise and decline is premature, although Farrell is a genuine force of nature that will be impossible to replace. Good luck to Saints in the final but I don't think this will be the beginning of a lengthy reign at the top.
Thank you for your joyful contribution
Means a lot
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:13:21:33 by Deesaint.
Quote:_CJ_
It was nice and loud through the game, but the bubbling undercurrent of tribalistic nastiness from the younger fans is not a welcome addition.
We've always heard the occasional drunk moron shouting during the kick silence, but yesterday it was coming from the younger saints fans in terrace D at least. The regular raising of fingers and other gestures at opposition fans and players was also on display.
Worst of all however is the overselling saints keep doing of the terrace, so fans are stuck in the walkway with no terrace space to join. The next problem come when the stewards try to do their jobs, so the drunk fans start being abusive and aggressive towards the stewards. Completely out of order and and avoidable.
Hopefully it was just because of the drink glowing due to the Friday night and the occasion, but it's been creeping in gradually throughout the year since the form has improved and gate has increased.
In 25 years on that terrace, I've never known such an unpleasant atmosphere that's hostile towards supporters. Actually spoiled my enjoyment of the game.
A topic we don't want to have, but at the same time that mustn't be head in the sand about.
In a seated area, earlier in the season, the enjoyment was somewhat spoiled for me by regular 'go back to France!' shouts to opposition. And such general attitude we don't see or expect. And which *seemed* to be intended to be timed to have impact on pitch events.
Combined with what seemed to me to be some age-borderline alcohol consumption.
Needs not to be overlooked, is what to note, IMO. Which it easily can be.
(typo corrected)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:13:27:47 by Scrumpy Half.
A great game and atmosphere last night. No complaints from this Sarries fan, you've been the best team all year and we're again last night too. I thought we fed off scraps and did well with that but you were generally in control.
Overall that was a great advertisement for the game from the two teams giving their all, and both teams played with a great spirit, fully committed but nothing over the top.
Good luck in the final, you deserve to win the lot.
Overall that was a great advertisement for the game from the two teams giving their all, and both teams played with a great spirit, fully committed but nothing over the top.
Good luck in the final, you deserve to win the lot.
Well played Saints, another good win. I hope you win the final, you deserve the trophy this season.
The referee clearly wanted the game to be decided on the pitch and not by cards. Saracens could easily have lost a prop for all the issues in the scrum. There were lots of breakdown offences on both sides and a few 50/50 tackles but he basically said I will give penalties for you to get 3 points but unless you go too far this will be a good old fashioned 15 v 15 contest. And I think it was a good game for that.
I cannot remember the last game without a bunch of cards.
I cannot remember the last game without a bunch of cards.
Quote:TogaQuote:Merlin-k
Indeed Farrell had a better game than the last time Saints and Sarries came together. Last time he got rattled, but this game he kept focus. Great tackle on Finn Smith.
I think we will have to see if Furbank gets cited during the week. It was one of those that could go either way. He wasn’t the primary tackler, Dans movement was affected by the first tackle, and I don’t think it was a straight head to head.
All rivalries aside, I think it was a great example of rugby.
He won't get cited but that's not proof that it shouldn't have been a card. It easily passed the threshold for a yellow.
I know, it’s terrible when proper justice doesn’t get done isn’t it?
Quote:Duckonstilts
The referee clearly wanted the game to be decided on the pitch and not by cards. Saracens could easily have lost a prop for all the issues in the scrum. There were lots of breakdown offences on both sides and a few 50/50 tackles but he basically said I will give penalties for you to get 3 points but unless you go too far this will be a good old fashioned 15 v 15 contest. And I think it was a good game for that.
I cannot remember the last game without a bunch of cards.
Saracens props were not good enough, no question there but for a direct head-on-head tackle like we saw from Furbank on Dan to not even get looked at was strange. Be honest, you'd be questioning it if it happened the other way.
Duckonstilts agree re cards. Pearson probably should have gone for repeat infringements and we'd have had no complaints IMO had a Sarries player gone for repeat scrum infringements. I thought Ridley did a great job.
The Furbank one is different IMO but that is the TMOs fault not Ridleys.
There was mitigation (secondary tackler, low force) so no way it will be cited but still surprised not to see it given. Could it have made a difference? who knows but it's too linear to suggest it could and tbh I'm much happier with 15v15 even if we came out of the wrong side on this one.
As Static says, best team through the season and fitting finalists.
The Furbank one is different IMO but that is the TMOs fault not Ridleys.
There was mitigation (secondary tackler, low force) so no way it will be cited but still surprised not to see it given. Could it have made a difference? who knows but it's too linear to suggest it could and tbh I'm much happier with 15v15 even if we came out of the wrong side on this one.
As Static says, best team through the season and fitting finalists.
Quote:Rich.
Many congrats from me in Bristol. Thought I had to share this version of the highlights with you (Fabulous Italian commentary)
[youtu.be]
Loved the commentary, can we have him every week! *
Quote:OldMarovian
Duckonstilts agree re cards. Pearson probably should have gone for repeat infringements and we'd have had no complaints IMO had a Sarries player gone for repeat scrum infringements. I thought Ridley did a great job.
The Furbank one is different IMO but that is the TMOs fault not Ridleys.
There was mitigation (secondary tackler, low force) so no way it will be cited but still surprised not to see it given. Could it have made a difference? who knows but it's too linear to suggest it could and tbh I'm much happier with 15v15 even if we came out of the wrong side on this one.
As Static says, best team through the season and fitting finalists.
I do agree, having watched a lot of rugby I have got used to far too many things going to the TMO. This probably should have been checked and might well have been a card, penalty or nothing in another game. And I probably would not have argued with a yellow. It's not consistent. And that is a real issue for the game.
My general point was that it went both ways. Mitchell took a knock to the head which wasn't checked either. But I actually enjoyed a game without cards for a change.
Quote:Duckonstilts
The referee clearly wanted the game to be decided on the pitch and not by cards. Saracens could easily have lost a prop for all the issues in the scrum. There were lots of breakdown offences on both sides and a few 50/50 tackles but he basically said I will give penalties for you to get 3 points but unless you go too far this will be a good old fashioned 15 v 15 contest. And I think it was a good game for that.
I cannot remember the last game without a bunch of cards.
Agreed (Sarries supporter). We lost it in the scrum contest, but one of the things I hate about our game at the moment is how easy it is for a dominant scrum to get scrum penalties, and in some cases yellow cards, and so they spend time with the ball in the tunnel milking the penalties.
This is not a complaint about last night, you won on the way the game is played at present, and we have won plenty of games in the same way.
But looking forward, wouldn't it be better if the scrum reverted to being a means of restarting the game - you win the scrum (sometimes even against the head) and win the match through the undoubted skills of your excellent backs? I do understand that right now you will take the win however it comes, and so have we in the past.
Good luck next week.
I liked Pearce refereeing to "play away" from the scrum today when the ball was available.
It encourages weaker scrums to collapse so as not to give penalties away (so if it's obvious I would still want to see that penalised) but the scrum was supposed to be a means to restart not to milk penalties. General point, not with reference to our game. When a scrum is as powderpuff as ours they deserve to conceed penalties.
It encourages weaker scrums to collapse so as not to give penalties away (so if it's obvious I would still want to see that penalised) but the scrum was supposed to be a means to restart not to milk penalties. General point, not with reference to our game. When a scrum is as powderpuff as ours they deserve to conceed penalties.
Actually, all credit to Mitch for not making a complaint about that knock to the head. We are seeing diving creeping in. Nice to see him just get up and play on.
I don't think there was too much playing to the ref from either side. It genuinely felt like watching rugby a decade or more ago.
More of this please. Although I expect world rugby to come and spoil it as usual.
More of this please. Although I expect world rugby to come and spoil it as usual.
Quote:Duckonstilts
I don't think there was too much playing to the ref from either side. It genuinely felt like watching rugby a decade or more ago.
More of this please. Although I expect world rugby to come and spoil it as usual.
Maybe not too much playing to the ref, but I don't know if you had reflink, I did and the level of chatter from Sarries was bordering on football, perhaps with less expletives. . We did not give the ref anywhere the level of grief / polite enquiry that Sarries did.
Quote:tigersimonQuote:Santiago
Perhaps this should be a different thread, but it's not just the team old guard moving on. Langdon has clearly shown he deserves be starting hooker for England so who should be the new England captain?
Langdon should definitely be touring this Summer but starting against the ABs?
Think you understimate JG’s experience and Leadership!
That is my point, if George isn't starting hooker on merit then who should captain England?
It has been said that George is no longer Sarries best hooker and if that's true perhaps he shouldn't even make the England bench
Santiago Hartley wasn't close to being England's best hooker for two years when he was a starter for England also based on his Captaincy.
Langdon has had an excellent season and will, I'm sure, get his chance on tour.
Borthwick showed in the 6 Nations that despite George being captain he was happy to bring Dan on so he is obviously giving opportunities for game time for the no2 hookers.
On that basis, starting on merit can mean a few things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:21:29:08 by OldMarovian.
Langdon has had an excellent season and will, I'm sure, get his chance on tour.
Borthwick showed in the 6 Nations that despite George being captain he was happy to bring Dan on so he is obviously giving opportunities for game time for the no2 hookers.
On that basis, starting on merit can mean a few things.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:01:21:29:08 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovian
Santiago Hartley wasn't close to being England's best hooker for two years when he was a starter for England also based on his Captaincy.
Langdon has had an excellent season and will, I'm sure, get his chance on tour.
Borthwick showed in the 6 Nations that despite George being captain he was happy to bring Dan on so he is obviously giving opportunities for game time for the no2 hookers.
On that basis, starting on merit can mean a few things.
How could you
Blasphemy
Dylan was by far the best hooker
Quote:SaintsDuncanQuote:FatAlanQuote:Matthew
How great was it to see the class of 2014 around the ground too? Saw Jim, Dylan, Luther, and Myler all on the big screen and surely there must have been others too.
Thought I saw Nick Beal sat to the right of Myler?
Wasn't Bealer sat with Jim? Or have I misremembered that?
Also thought, at one stage, Kenny Logan was in a shot
Saw Ben Cohen at the entrance to the bar in the Barwell.
Quote:DeesaintQuote:OldMarovian
Santiago Hartley wasn't close to being England's best hooker for two years when he was a starter for England also based on his Captaincy.
Langdon has had an excellent season and will, I'm sure, get his chance on tour.
Borthwick showed in the 6 Nations that despite George being captain he was happy to bring Dan on so he is obviously giving opportunities for game time for the no2 hookers.
On that basis, starting on merit can mean a few things.
How could you
Blasphemy
Dylan was by far the best hooker
...... after Mikey
Also note Stuart Barnes in the Times today says Jamie George no longer looks England captain material. You heard it here first!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:02:12:44:59 by Santiago.
Barnes has been wrong about pretty much everything for the last two decades why would now be any different?
He got lucky saying the sky was green when the Northern lights were visible in the UK so I guess this could be the second time in the year 😀
Well our Women's team just did what then Men's has failed to do (twice!) this season and win at FGs.
What's the deal with Lightning. I saw they had Saints crests on their sleeves?
What's the deal with Lightning. I saw they had Saints crests on their sleeves?
OM, there were talks between Tigers and Lightning a couple of years ago, never clear why they didn’t end up in partnership but Tigers partnered with Litchfield in the end then LL partnered with Saints!
Fortunately today they weren’t wearing their Saints coloured strip as seeing Scaz in a Saints shirt does upset me!! She’s a Leicestershire girl!
Fortunately today they weren’t wearing their Saints coloured strip as seeing Scaz in a Saints shirt does upset me!! She’s a Leicestershire girl!
It’s a work in progress. Lightning have a good history and the Saints didn’t want to stomp over it just taking over the club. But Saints also wanted a strong woman’s team. So it is a partnership with a gradual shift. This year their away strip was in Saints colours, and I think for the first time they played all their home games at FG (I may be corrected on that). A number of the Lightning players also have jobs in the Saints structure in order to support them. In addition, The Saints Show often has Lightning players on and Daisy has been doing some commentating. At some point I suspect the name will change at least partly.
Merlin,
I think it was this season they switched one of the games to the All Weather pitch at Loughborough because of winter weather?
I think it was this season they switched one of the games to the All Weather pitch at Loughborough because of winter weather?
Quote:tigersimon
OM, there were talks between Tigers and Lightning a couple of years ago, never clear why they didn’t end up in partnership but Tigers partnered with Litchfield in the end then LL partnered with Saints!
Fortunately today they weren’t wearing their Saints coloured strip as seeing Scaz in a Saints shirt does upset me!! She’s a Leicestershire girl!
But you had Ed Slater and he was a Milton Keynes/Olney lad, so fair do's.
Thanks for the info various folks!
Northampton Lightning would seem to be a reasonable compromise if it gets to the stage of a more integrated merger?
Northampton Lightning would seem to be a reasonable compromise if it gets to the stage of a more integrated merger?
Quote:LongersQuote:tigersimon
OM, there were talks between Tigers and Lightning a couple of years ago, never clear why they didn’t end up in partnership but Tigers partnered with Litchfield in the end then LL partnered with Saints!
Fortunately today they weren’t wearing their Saints coloured strip as seeing Scaz in a Saints shirt does upset me!! She’s a Leicestershire girl!
But you had Ed Slater and he was a Milton Keynes/Olney lad, so fair do's.
Quote:OldMarovian
Thanks for the info various folks!
Northampton Lightning would seem to be a reasonable compromise if it gets to the stage of a more integrated merger?
I expect thats the future direction. We want to be respectful and not just throw our weight around to get what we want (which was basically a fast track to fixing our embarrassing lack of a womens team) but the partnership is real, and strong and Like everything in Womens sport (hopefully we can just call it sport in future) its growing.
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