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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:23:17:10:15 by Saint Ted.

Best we can do I suppose. Good to see Lockett back.

A second start in a row for Ollie, hopefully it's a springboard for finding a bit of form because when he's on it's probably only Freeman who's better, and it gives us another option becauseall the wings have fairly different profiles

Coles, Pearson both rested.

Congratulations to James Pater on making the bench for his European debut. That’s a real show of faith.

I feel conflicted about the Bristol v Bordeaux game. I always want to cheer on an English team in Europe. Plus I just really want to see Bordeaux lose. But if. Bristol win we’ll be down to third in the table probably and away round of 16.

It’ll be interesting to see if England select Furbank given how little game time he has had. I suspect Daly will start given Furbs has had so few chances to showcase himself. These are the big games he needed to be playing.

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Saint Maul
I feel conflicted about the Bristol v Bordeaux game. I always want to cheer on an English team in Europe. Plus I just really want to see Bordeaux lose. But if. Bristol win we’ll be down to third in the table probably and away round of 16.

For me its an easy one, a UBB win and us 2nd in the group for a home round of 16, and we'd also be in a decent position for a home quarter if there's a corressponding upset

Could be a potential banana skin this one. Only one point in it their Bristol fixture so all the pressure is on Saints. Scarlets lined up nicely to do what we did against Bath.

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FatAlan
Could be a potential banana skin this one. Only one point in it their Bristol fixture so all the pressure is on Saints. Scarlets lined up nicely to do what we did against Bath.

Hope this doesn't come back to bite me but I think Scarlets winning here would be a significantly bigger upset than us beating Bath away. As you say though, no room for complacency.

On permutations think we want one of the following to happen, in order to finish second and get a home round of 16 tie:

Bordeaux to win and, if Bristol get two bonus points, us to beat Scarlets by a wide enough margin for us to have a better points difference than Bristol.

Or Bristol to win and Bordeaux to get only one point AND us to beat Scarlets by a wide enough margin for us to have a better points difference than Bordeaux



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:16:12:25:17 by St Marcus.

Whilst the rugby Gods haven’t been kind with an away draw v Bordeaux and injuries we have the distinct advantage that we will know the exact ask before kick-off given Bristol play Bordeaux before us.

But for what it is worth, currently, to come second we need to aim for a 4 try-scoring bonus 33 point winning margin over Scarlets.

That definitely beats Bristol to 2nd if they lose.
It would also beat Bordeaux to 2nd if they lose unless Bordeaux got 2 bonus points, in which case we would still be third irrespective of points difference.

While rotation is important, it can be disruptive. Hutch out, Dingers back, no Smith so we’ve had no consistency in midfield for several games now. In fairness the guys know each other well and it’s not proved an issue thus far. Same with the back three and the back row. Good to see Pater selected, he’s the new Furbs I like to think, no reason he can’t do what Pollock and Todaro have done and make himself a first XIV regular.

The loser of Bristol and Bordeaux will have a reduced points difference, so we will need fewer than a 33 point margin.

I’m going to ask because I’ve seen it a couple of times, what is the advantage of knowing what they need to do, the aim for every game is to go into it and win with a bonus point and score as many points as possible, the team aren’t going to go into a match and think after three tries, it’s ok let’s leave it now. If anything it’s a disadvantage because Scarlets will know how points saints need and could try to scupper it.

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Saint Maul
Whilst the rugby Gods haven’t been kind with an away draw v Bordeaux and injuries we have the distinct advantage that we will know the exact ask before kick-off given Bristol play Bordeaux before us.
But for what it is worth, currently, to come second we need to aim for a 4 try-scoring bonus 33 point winning margin over Scarlets.

That definitely beats Bristol to 2nd if they lose.
It would also beat Bordeaux to 2nd if they lose unless Bordeaux got 2 bonus points, in which case we would still be third irrespective of points difference.

I just can't see Bristol winning, or keeping it within 7, but you never know, UBB haven't got a 9 on the bench which could be disruptive. So the most likely to me is a 5 point win leaves saints second. regardless of points

Oh and the bookies fancy UBB over Brizzle and give us a 28pt handicap against Scarlets.

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Saint Ted
I’m going to ask because I’ve seen it a couple of times, what is the advantage of knowing what they need to do, the aim for every game is to go into it and win with a bonus point and score as many points as possible, the team aren’t going to go into a match and think after three tries, it’s ok let’s leave it now. If anything it’s a disadvantage because Scarlets will know how points saints need and could try to scupper it.

i suppose the only thing is it might influance whether you kick for 3 or go for a try when you're say 15 points ahead, or its the guarantee of having clarity of whatts needed, but i agree in this situation it's not a massive difference

I think Dingwall and Freeman as a partnership could be the best in the league.

I think it may actually be a hinderance. Knowing what's needed could encourage trying to force a move rather than going through that extra phase. We've seen all too often that trying to force a move often results in a wayward pass or a knock on, or two players simply not being on the same wavelength.

Maybe a forward tries in vain to make the line and ends up getting isolated and getting turned over, but going to group may have allowed the 9 to pick out an open winger.

A lot will revolve around Mitchell and he'll need a calm head, but on paper and league form, we should be able to get a big win.

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St Stokey.
I think it may actually be a hinderance. Knowing what's needed could encourage trying to force a move rather than going through that extra phase. We've seen all too often that trying to force a move often results in a wayward pass or a knock on, or two players simply not being on the same wavelength.
Maybe a forward tries in vain to make the line and ends up getting isolated and getting turned over, but going to group may have allowed the 9 to pick out an open winger.

A lot will revolve around Mitchell and he'll need a calm head, but on paper and league form, we should be able to get a big win.

you could argue the complete opposite too, Not knowing exactly what you need could force you to try more to get a bigger points difference just in case its needed, throwing an extra pass or knock on etc.

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Deesaint
I think Dingwall and Freeman as a partnership could be the best in the league.

Not dismissing either player's quality but I think this does Hutchinson a huge disservice.

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Smooothsides

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St Stokey.
I think it may actually be a hinderance. Knowing what's needed could encourage trying to force a move rather than going through that extra phase. We've seen all too often that trying to force a move often results in a wayward pass or a knock on, or two players simply not being on the same wavelength.
Maybe a forward tries in vain to make the line and ends up getting isolated and getting turned over, but going to group may have allowed the 9 to pick out an open winger.

A lot will revolve around Mitchell and he'll need a calm head, but on paper and league form, we should be able to get a big win.

you could argue the complete opposite too, Not knowing exactly what you need could force you to try more to get a bigger points difference just in case its needed, throwing an extra pass or knock on etc.

This whole idea of knowing ‘exactly what you need’, or to score more points ‘just in case’ just doesn’t make sense.
Saints are going to take the field on Saturday & try to win the game with as many tries and as many points as possible. Same as any other game throughout our entire history. We just need to play our game like we train for week in week out, and whatever happens, happens. Anything else is just nonsensical.

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twsaint
The loser of Bristol and Bordeaux will have a reduced points difference, so we will need fewer than a 33 point margin.

If Bordeaux lose by 1 point, we need to get 33 to be ahead.

33 is the very highest target but as I said it will likely be lower but we won’t know til after end whistle at Ashton Gate.

If Bordeaux lose by 1 point and get 4 tries , we're third.

Nice looking team.

No Furbank again - simply not available enough.
Looking forward to seeing Pater.

Get the W and see what the next round has in store.

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Saint Ted
I’m going to ask because I’ve seen it a couple of times, what is the advantage of knowing what they need to do, the aim for every game is to go into it and win with a bonus point and score as many points as possible, the team aren’t going to go into a match and think after three tries, it’s ok let’s leave it now. If anything it’s a disadvantage because Scarlets will know how points saints need and could try to scupper it.

If Bordeaux beat Bristol by a huge margin then we know we only have to focus on a try bonus win even if Scarlets score a load of points, as long as we win. It’s rare for Saints not to get the 4 tries at home. So tactically we can just focus on the win even if Scarlets are close scoreboard-wise. Get to 4 tries and we can slow it down. Take kicks at goal.

If we know it is a large points difference we have to chase 7 pointers. Try and get the scorer as close to the posts as possible. That means keeping the ball in play. Quick re-starts. Keeping scrums up over scrum penalties. In injury time playing as long as you can in the hope of getting some more points. Quick rather than long celebrations on scoring a try. Quick conversions. I’d go more for a fitness game-plan of keep the ball alive as much as possible. Tire them out so as the game wears on Scarlets are out on their feet and space increases - and in a game where Scarlets are only fighting for pride they are more likely to drop off so that last 20 we can reap the rewards where our players should want it more and fight through the fatigue. In the final 10 we will know exactly what is needed. Already there - play territorially. 14 points still needed - we have to push.

So it could make a significant difference, IMHO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:16:14:34:35 by Saint Maul.

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twsaint
If Bordeaux lose by 1 point and get 4 tries , we're third.

Yes. But what if they don’t get 4 tries?

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St.Sinner

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Smooothsides

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St Stokey.
I think it may actually be a hinderance. Knowing what's needed could encourage trying to force a move rather than going through that extra phase. We've seen all too often that trying to force a move often results in a wayward pass or a knock on, or two players simply not being on the same wavelength.
Maybe a forward tries in vain to make the line and ends up getting isolated and getting turned over, but going to group may have allowed the 9 to pick out an open winger.

A lot will revolve around Mitchell and he'll need a calm head, but on paper and league form, we should be able to get a big win.

you could argue the complete opposite too, Not knowing exactly what you need could force you to try more to get a bigger points difference just in case its needed, throwing an extra pass or knock on etc.

This whole idea of knowing ‘exactly what you need’, or to score more points ‘just in case’ just doesn’t make sense.
Saints are going to take the field on Saturday & try to win the game with as many tries and as many points as possible. Same as any other game throughout our entire history. We just need to play our game like we train for week in week out, and whatever happens, happens. Anything else is just nonsensical.

as others have said similarly, if saints are 12 points ahead with 5 minutes to go, get a penalty 40m out and they know they need to win by 17 points, they would probably kick for the corner, if it didn't matter what the points difference was, you'd likely see them kick for 3 to take the game past 2 scores and burn a minute off the clock

Is that scenario likely to come up? probably not, but the only way it would be nonsensical is that if you disagree with the scenario above?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:16:14:41:40 by Smooothsides.

Erm, Scarlets can still qualify with a bonus win and a big points difference!

Any 10 cover needed this week ? French Tony goes from not getting a game to needing to go the full 80 two weeks in a row. Class act who has put his body in the line and delivered everytime he’s played. I think he deserves a bit more respect



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:17:03:43:52 by NYsaint25.

I can't recall anything but respect for TB

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SaintsDuncan
I can't recall anything but respect for TB

Glad I'm not the only one surprised by the comment - in fact, I want to see him play more.

I don’t understand the comment on not selected to being 1st choice?
For a long time now we have been a team that has ‘a’ 10 that is an 80 min player, with others that can fill in in the infrequent event that they go off (hutch/furbank)
Fin is our first choice 10, is more likely to stay with us long term if we can keep him (at a guess, given Tony is likely to ultimately want to play in his home country)
Tony is our second choice 10, very very good 2nd 10 to have, we can argue over the nuances of who might be better

So, we play fin for the games that work for us, and when Fin doesn’t play, Tony comes in.

To go in at half time with three tries and in the lead, issomewhat fortuitous, given our handling!

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Longers
To go in at half time with three tries and in the lead, issomewhat fortuitous, given our handling!

I think it is a combo of us not being on it and Scarlets pushing the limits when it comes to putting pressure on (offside.)

They have been quite offside on our attack and for the charge down he was almost standing next to Mitchell when he picked the ball up to kick.

We’ve tried to play at a very high tempo
Some guys not quite in the right place or managing to hold onto the ball

Frustrating watch
Sometimes just need to hold onto the ball rather than force it

Looking forward to a much better second half

Weee doing our best to lose this game
Twice Henry turned over giving easy penalties near our 5

5 point game

Whilst I understand the need to rotation and rest, the key absences for me were Coles, Pearson and Hutchinson.

The lineout was all over the place and as mentioned above, rescued a number of times by Kemeny.

We seemed to lack some carrying from the forwards. Whilst we did make meters from the usual suspects, VDM is becoming a closely watched man; granted leaving space for others, but I felt that Pearson's massive carries that we've been seeing again were lacking. I don't feel that Graham had one of his better games.

There were so many knock ons, especially in the centres. The ball must have been very greasy from the rain, but even still. Some of the offloads seemed rushed, some of the short passes seemed to be bullets and often, passes were either at head height or around the toes. Freeman is a brilliant player; on the wing... World Class and I know he's in his infancy at 13 but his handling let him down last night. I think we also missed Hutchinson's creativity.

Still, its another win and hopefully we'll be firing against Sale, a place we've often struggled to go to.

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St Stokey.
Whilst I understand the need to rotation and rest, the key absences for me were Coles, Pearson and Hutchinson.
The lineout was all over the place and as mentioned above, rescued a number of times by Kemeny.

There were so many knock ons, especially in the centres. The ball must have been very greasy from the rain, but even still. Some of the offloads seemed rushed, some of the short passes seemed to be bullets and often, passes were either at head height or around the toes. Freeman is a brilliant player; on the wing... World Class and I know he's in his infancy at 13 but his handling let him down last night. I think we also missed Hutchinson's creativity.

Hutch was listed as unavailable for selection, so it's potentially not rotation. Coles and Pearson weren't on that list. Freemo is a tricky one, he dropped a few passes but was solid in defence. It was also just 3 weeks ago he was scoring a hattrick away at Bath and people were saying he was nailed on to start at 13 for England. That was obviously premature though but the potential is clearly there

Hadn't spotted that Hutch was unavailable.

Freeman has everything to be an exceptional 13, I just feel that without Hutch, we miss that creative spark.

Dingwall is so calm, and seems to knit everything together but he's not the one I'd look to if we needed to spark the game into life.
Freeman, defensively very solid and get the ball to him and he can run round or through anyone. Getting the ball out to the wing sometimes seems to stall with him and again, he can finish but he's not the one I'd look to to create.

I think that Hutchinson, now that his defense has been improved, although I don't think it was ever as bad as it was thought to be, has some of the best vision on the pitch, whether that be through hands or feet and has become one of the best 13's in the Prem. I can't think of another centre that can do what he does, that would fit our style of play as well has Hutchinson does.

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St Stokey.
Hadn't spotted that Hutch was unavailable.
Freeman has everything to be an exceptional 13, I just feel that without Hutch, we miss that creative spark.

Dingwall is so calm, and seems to knit everything together but he's not the one I'd look to if we needed to spark the game into life.
Freeman, defensively very solid and get the ball to him and he can run round or through anyone. Getting the ball out to the wing sometimes seems to stall with him and again, he can finish but he's not the one I'd look to to create.

I think that Hutchinson, now that his defense has been improved, although I don't think it was ever as bad as it was thought to be, has some of the best vision on the pitch, whether that be through hands or feet and has become one of the best 13's in the Prem. I can't think of another centre that can do what he does, that would fit our style of play as well has Hutchinson does.

I completely agree, if I was picking the team for a final, Hutch would be starting every time, but I also think we need to see Freemo at 13 more often, so we're in a position where if for whatever reason on of the centers can't play, he can step in and the drop off is minimal Because lets face it, we don't have any other options really. it's a difficult balance to get right with rotation / disruption like you say. Hopefully England can help us out by playing Freemo there throughout the 6 nations !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:01:19:12:57:44 by Smooothsides.

We don’t have anyone else…

Todaro?

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Creaton Saint
We don’t have anyone else…
Todaro?

Todaro has literally not played a minute of professional rugby at centre, so at this point it's not really a credible option

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Smooothsides

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Creaton Saint
We don’t have anyone else…
Todaro?

Todaro has literally not played a minute of professional rugby at centre, so at this point it's not really a credible option

Yeah right, at the beginning of the season he hadn't played a minute of any rugby on the wing, so he obviously wasn't a credible option on the wing.

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Santiago

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Smooothsides

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Creaton Saint
We don’t have anyone else…
Todaro?

Todaro has literally not played a minute of professional rugby at centre, so at this point it's not really a credible option

Yeah right, at the beginning of the season he hadn't played a minute of any rugby on the wing, so he obviously wasn't a credible option on the wing.

I think you're missing the point, The initial point was around picking a best 23 for a hypothetical final tomorrow. At the beginning of the season if i'd have said that Todaro was a credible option for a final on the wing literally noone would have agreed with me, but now hes actually played professional rugby on the wing, i think he probably does.

It's the same for centre, I'm sure he probably will end up being a quality centre. but if there was a final tomorrow (as was the original point), sticking Todaro at centre just wouldn't be smart and he'd likely be exposed and anyone who thinks otherwise is underestimating the difference between playing on the wing and playing centre, especially defensively

Hutch is another playmaker. We missed his kicks through and creativity. Furbank will also provide that function. Without one of them then we are reliant upon whoever is playing 10 and that single channel is much easier to close down.

WRT the line out. I was watching the lineout warmup and James Craig was standing on a step ladder providing a target for the hookers to throw to. From my POV he seemed to be catching the ball a good half metre higher than they would ever be able to lift a jumper. This will tend, because of muscle memory, to make the the thrower over throw as we witnessed on a couple of occaisions.

I thought there were a lot of creative plays let down by the inability to catch a ball
Not sure Tommy caught a ball in the first half

Knock on after knock on