By Kath
November 6 2010

England v New Zealand November 2010 - Match Thoughts.  First of all congratulations to New Zealand for once again winning the Hilary Shield.  Well done but come on now you were rocking, come on admit it ;)

Investec International

England 16 v 26 New Zealand

Twickenham 6th November 2010

New Zealand players perform the haka before during the International match at Twickenham - Empics

England took to the Twickenham turf today and you could feel that every player wanted to win.  Ok! yes we were beaten but I am not downhearted on the contrary, I think the England players should be proud and really now start to believe in themselves as a TEAM because they rattled the All Blacks good and proper!.   

Australia beat them last week and remember this is the number one team in the world and folks you know what, they are very beatable!   It just took the England players too long for the penny to drop and for them to gain the confidence to go at them full on.  Confidence that is all that was needed to inspire England and I for one want to see more of the same please.  I really fancy our chances now against Australia next week.

England's Dylan Hartley scores his teams first try during the International match at Twickenham - Empics

England in all departments looked much sharper than we have seen over the last few years.  The final pass though as they got to the 5 metre line was hard to watch as opportunity after opportunity slipped away.  This has to be a key training area for work this coming week.

Having said that overall the front row were fantastic, the scrum was strong and the line out straight and solid.  What a pleasure it was to watch this match, in the past fans watching would see the heads go down and you just knew England would not come back from a New Zealand 17 points up score but not this England team...........oh yes let's have much more of this please.   

England's Nick Easter and Shontayne Hope and New Zealands Sonny Bill Williams - Picture by Empics

England came back in the second half like men possessed especially in the last 20 mins and you know what?  They really had the All Blacks on the back foot and panicking.  I actually thought we were going to get another try in those last 10 minutes and to be honest we should have but that is what they now have to work on.   England need to be more precise with their passing, keep cool heads, they need to stop the penalty count as well and to learn how execute the final kill. 

Some might say that New Zealand allowed England to play and took their eye off the game when they were 17 points up.  Not I, If you are the number one team in the world then you play full on for 80mins and more, nope this All Black side look vulnerable and it does not surprise me as Rugby World Cup year approaches they start to teeter again.

England's Ben Foden tackles New Zealands Isaia Toeava - Picture by Empics

I don't want to particularly single one player out for England's man of the match as I felt a number of players put in some fantastic moments.  However, special mentions to Easter, Foden and of course Hartley.

It is a almost a decade now since I can honestly say that it was a pleasure to watch England play even though we were beaten.  I really feel that we are now moving into a new era and on the build again.

England: Foden; Ashton, Tindall, Hape, Cueto; Flood, Youngs; Sheridan, S Thompson, Cole, Lawes, Palmer, Croft, Moody (capt), Easter.
Replacements: Hartley, Wilson, Attwood, Fourie, Care, Hodgson, D Armitage.

New Zealand: Muliaina; Rokocoko, Williams, Nonu, H Gear; Carter, Mathewson; Woodcock, Mealamu, O Franks, Thorn, Whitelock, Kaino, McCaw (capt), Read.
Replacements: Elliot, Afoa, Boric, Messam, Ellis, Donald, Toeava.

England (6) 16
Tries: Hartley Cons: Flood Pens: Flood 3
New Zealand (17) 26
Tries: Gear, Read Cons: Carter 2 Pens: Carter 4

England v New Zealand 6/11/10 Post MatchThoughts

Discussion started by Unofficial England Rugby Union , 06/11/2010 17:46

Unofficial England Rugby Union
06/11/2010 17:46

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UnofficialEnglandRugby
06/11/2010 17:49

So have I been watching this match through rose tinted glasses then? Do you agree with me?

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Rugby101
06/11/2010 18:16

Think you're spot on. Very encouraging from England.

Now, let's win the next three!!

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Surbiton Shark
06/11/2010 20:56

Bit too Rose tinted for my taste.

Indeed England fought well etc for 80 mins and good effort from everyone involved which is a marked improvement on previous years however that should always be the case for an International side

We were industrious and busy however devoid of creativity Particulary from set play. Flood is not going to spark a backline and Tindall lack of pace in attack and tracking back is increasingly obvious

Some old issues we will try hard and huff and puff but scoring tries is not an easy task. We really did butcher chances today.

I'm not sure the Aussies will be the pushovers a lot of people seem to think. Int rugby these days is about attacking and defending, we can't win anymore by just defence and penalty kicking we have to be able to score tries

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Glossopshark
06/11/2010 21:31

I have to agree with SS, the Hape effort that went to the TMO, we had a 4 v 2 overlap, yet we still butchered it.

If we are in it for the world cup we may want to worry less about the scoreline and more about the performance.

The AI's could be testing ground and the 6 Nations should be the final prep

If you are picking from the current players in vogue, then a starting 22 of:

15. Foden

14. Ashton
13. Tindall
12.Barkley
11. Monye

10. Flood
9. Youngs

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley (c)
3. Cole

4. Lawes
5. Attwood

6. Croft
7. Fourie
8. Easter

Subs:

16. Thompson
17. Wilson
18. Palmer
19. Moody
20. Simpson
21. Wilkinson
22. Armitage

Not my XV, but given the current squads.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:06:21:33:42 by Glossopshark.

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UnofficialEnglandRugby
06/11/2010 22:57

Surbiton Shark and Glossopshark: Err is that not what I said then>

Quote:

The final pass though as they got to the 5 metre line was hard to watch as opportunity after opportunity slipped away. This has to be a key training area for work this coming week.

Quote:

England need to be more precise with their passing, keep cool heads, they need to stop the penalty count as well and to learn how execute the final kill.

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CoachNZ
07/11/2010 00:09

A good game. An average ref. England need to hold onto their enthusiasm and the ball at the same time. As a Cantabrian, I suggest that winding Brad Thorn up will only lead to a bed in hospital (and not for Thorn). Build on that performance though England and you can shake a few reputations (preferably Oz).

We were "rocking" okay Kath but more like James Brown than tectonic plates.

KJ

PS Remember we have accommodation in paradise for next year.

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Rarua
07/11/2010 03:05

Tindall is the blockage in the backline. Others have been partial problems but mostly by having to accommodate Tindall.

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CoachNZ
08/11/2010 08:05

My thoughts exactly about Tindall. Perhaps, if England decided to hang on to him, they could remind him there are another 14 players on his side and (in extremes) he could pass the ball to one them.

Cheers KJ

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Glossopshark
08/11/2010 09:28

Kath, I was agreeing to Subiton's comment about butchering tries, not that your review was particularly rose-tinted



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:08:11:34:26 by Glossopshark.

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jojo
08/11/2010 10:27

It's OK to knock Tindall but who do you replace him with?

England are pretty short on centres at the moment and it will be after the WC when the new tyros will start to come through.

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clutch
08/11/2010 11:03

We are short because nobody gets a chance to play 10 games on the trot, as Tindall keeps returning. I was quite happy with Hape, but Tindall isn't up to it. CoachNZ Tindall should never pass, we saw quite clearly what happens when he does.

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Saint.Kenneth
08/11/2010 13:26

I'm disappointed that England never even consider looking at Jon Clarke. He's very strong in defence, very good at turning over ball and has a side step that generally gets at least a half break that enables him to offload in the tackle. I'm lucky enough to see him play week in week out and can't understand why he is continually over looked.

I'm sure supporters from other clubs could name equally good outside centres that they are lucky enough to watch regularly. It's just disappointing that none ever get the chance to show whether they are up to test standard due to England's reserved selection policy. A lot of the key players only got their chance through injury to others rather than being selected because of club form.

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Surbiton Shark
08/11/2010 14:35

Quote:

Kath.
Surbiton Shark and Glossopshark: Err is that not what I said then>

Quote:

The final pass though as they got to the 5 metre line was hard to watch as opportunity after opportunity slipped away. This has to be a key training area for work this coming week.

Quote:

England need to be more precise with their passing, keep cool heads, they need to stop the penalty count as well and to learn how execute the final kill.

Hi Kath. Got a bit more time to write this now. Firstly thanks for an excellent match review.

For the points you made, focussing on training on for being precise with passing, penalities, keeping cool in the last 5 meters etc., these are meant to be the best English players.


Perhaps more time together is the answer with a settled side will help but my main issues is how we score tries from set peices with the current setup. Until this core problem is addressed we won't start beating the big boys, therefore my thoughts aren't entirely positive for the future

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clutch
08/11/2010 15:06

There are plenty of options Saint.Kenneth, but perhaps all the options are not quite there yet, hence the selection of the dependable Tindall (which he normally is against lesser teams). For a player to go from not quite there, to an international standard player he needs to play. Ashton isn't quite there yet, but he plays. I don't understand why the same doesn't apply to the centres. Still most of Johnsons selections make sense, so not going to argue over 1 position too much.

I like Clarke also. Tait has never had a proper run. Under new management at Sale he should shine, so I expect him to push for the 13 shirt. Waldock is probably a more exciting option than Clarke, but Clarke is perhaps the stronger player.

Getting the balance in the centres is difficult, as all centres have different +'s and -'s. I think some of the ideal partnerships lack physicality, so one of Flutey, Tindall and Hape needs to start.

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