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Loosehead to Tighthead - A Lawyer Writes....


By Broonie
November 4 2014

Inspired by Robbie's post on the possibility of developing Ethan’s scrummaging so that he could play at tight head as well as loose head and consequential ramblings about the differences between the two as well as differences which may have arisen since the new interpretations arose last year, an article by Broonie based on his experiences.  

 

 

 

Broonie Writes...

My direct (i.e. physical) knowledge of front row play is well in the past as I am now 64 years old. Some of my experience translates to modern practice but a lot of that depends on observation. I was actually a back row forward (number eight by choice) but moved into the front row by virtue of playing in a lot of teams which were lacking in size while having an endless supply of schoolboy internationals in the backs. For survival’s sake, as I was then a bit on the tall side for the front row, I had to get up to speed with how and why things were done in the front row, with the starting point being that there is no such thing as cheating and you do whatever you can get away with. Not being a natural front row occupant, I had to think harder than most about that side of things.

I would say that Robbie and his younger brother were more in the company of those specifically designed to play in the front row (although Dan was a bit suspect due to excessive fitness and good looks).

At present it looks as though the lawmakers may have changed the playing field as far as the “hit “is concerned, although they are allowing a “mini-hit” somewhat as the coaches push the boundaries of what is allowed. The fetish about the hit started round about the time that Phil Dowd, Olo Brown and Fitzpatrick were scrummaging in South Africa for the all Blacks against larger packs of forwards. Basically they found that if they could get an early shove going they could move a larger pack of forwards backwards – there was no come back from the opponents once momentum had been established. They analysed the first contact at the scrum and how this could be used to establish momentum. As is involved using an eight man push, hooking gradually fell into disuse and the levels of force involved in top-level scrummaging simply increased over the decades until the authorities set up and pay attention to the risks involved to players.

To the surprise of some coaches, the new dispensations have not produced a scrum which is emasculated, simply one which is different and which promotes different skills. Indeed a lot of the tighthead props in particular are finding life a bit different and indeed difficult. Firstly, scrums are lasting longer as a contest. A scrum dominated by the hit tends to be over as a contest fairly quickly, degenerating into a sort of wheelbarrow-pushing event. As explosion and momentum became ever more important, the trend followed that of American football with large and explosive tighthead is in particular who might not be best suited to prolonged effort. Scrums then went down the road of being milked tactically and physically for penalties normally being given against the weaker scrummaging side.

Under the new dispensations it is still possible to milk penalties from the scrum, but it is much less predictable as more and  different things are going on, scrums become more of a wrestling match, bringing endurance sharply into play and also giving the referees a larger menu of actions leading to penalties. As the scrum becomes less predictable so there will be a tendency to invest less in “polishing the battleship” into which the tighthead prop had developed.

It is going to be very interesting to see how Dan Cole proceeds when he is fit again and enters an arena where the hit is no longer the be all and end all of scrummaging. Among English players Cole and Wilson are the biggest tighthead’s, although Wilson is a bit shorter and more traditionally built as a prop. There seems to be a view that Dan Cole will slot back seamlessly when he returns from injury. As I recall, however, he did seem to be struggling a bit before his injury and unable to establish as normal dominance and of course in the meantime teams have had that much longer to develop their scrummaging in what is essentially an old-fashioned way.

EW 

Turning specifically to our young props, then, Ethan’s height was until last year against him if you considered him as a potential tighthead. Those of you who followed Alex Corbisiero’s exposition on BT sport, in particular as to the difference between playing on loose head and tighthead and the physical differences which tended to favour either may recall that he pointed out that a tighthead would be looking to control the opposing loose head by pushing slightly downwards, whereas a loose head would be looking to attack the tighthead by pushing slightly upwards.

A pause here; Australian-inspired law changes have made illegal both pushing sideways and pushing either upwards or downwards. If you ask any prop who is actually played the game, if you followed those laws truthfully and honestly then they would lead to uncontested scrums. Front rows have always pushed either up or down and have always pushed sideways to a greater or lesser extent. What Alex tried to get across was that you could get away with a certain amount of it but that there were certain things the referees were looking for. For instance, it is a matter of judgement when the loose head may move inwards against his opponent and indeed of his opponent fails to take the initial engagement properly and stay straight, the loose head will be left with little option but to follow him in. The referee has to answer the question whether the loose head was “ boring in”or whether the tighthead simply failed to take the engagement and stay straight. In the same way referees have to consider whether a tighthead is pushing legally if the plane of his body is slightly downwards or not.

When explaining this I have often used the analogy of a fireman trying to control the direction of water from a very large powerful hose. This is far from easy, but the main problem is the hose going out of control and spraying upwards at after which it is  increasingly difficult to control; in the same way, the tighthead has to constantly control the loose head who will be tending to scrummage upwards. To do this the tighthead needs to keep his right shoulder baring down on his opponents right shoulder and neck and he needs to avoid letting that pressure off, otherwise the upward pressure coming from the loose head will escape. In practice the referee will usually check the binding of the tighthead with his right arm to see whether there is downward pressure by pulling down. In the same way, the referee will watch the loose heads hips. If the loose head has moved his hips out early, the referee should regard this as “ coming round the corner”and blame the loose head accordingly if the scrum goes in on that side.By being a bit shorter Ethan would lose the advantage of being able easily to bear down on a loosehead’s right shoulder, but he would have the balancing advantage of being less easy for the opponent to get under him – go figure.

All of this is a matter of degree of course as it is not in the nature of scrummages to be perfectly straight or perfectly level. As to who caused a collapse, referees will be paying attention to how far forward or backward either of the props have their feet , they will also be looking for a movement in and down with the shoulder which will inevitably tend to cause a collapse and so on.

Back to Ethan  Waller, he is indeed a strong lad and he may well be more in the market for a move to tighthead this year or next year than previously. Usually tightheads in the “hit “period have been taller than loose heads for the good reason that this would enable them to control their opponents right shoulder more easily as they will have more reach and being taller enabled them to “hit” considerably harder than would otherwise be the case (added downward momentum). The same incentives should not apply now and with  scrums going on longer and being more in the nature of wrestling matches than charging contests, endurance and core strength and stability are elevated as desirable traits. Someone with a chunky frame, broad in  the shoulder but also in the hips, may well have advantages over a taller tighthead.

In the new world of longer scrums with more time for lateral movement you have a tighthead whose head and neck are “ locked in”, while the rest of their bodies can be moved from side to side; this is bound to put pressure on the tighthead’s trunk, specifically sideways pressures and core stability is going to be even more important, while the ideal shape seems likely to revert to a relatively short trunk able to resist those strains. It is also likely that the tighthead will return to being the principal transmitter of the shove.

 

 

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Loosehead to Tighthead - a lawyer writes....
Discussion started by ComeOnYouSaints.com , 04/11/2014 17:03
ComeOnYouSaints.com
04/11/2014 17:03
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Bob Stainsby
04/11/2014 17:18
Ken thank you for that very interesting and illuminating piece to one who has only a basic (very) knowledge of the dark arts. Welcome back by the way, it's been too long.

Top of the League 2014-2015 Season

LeicesterSaint
04/11/2014 18:50
Seconded

Thrupp artist
04/11/2014 18:54
Really interesting analysis. Seeing the photo of the brothers in the article made me check up the dimensions of the All Black brothers Ben and Owen Franks - and they are almost identical size to Ethan and Alex. Ben is of course well known as being able to work either side of the scrum whilst Owen is a tight head.

rugbymel
04/11/2014 19:08
Welcome back and thanks for the insightful analysis. It all seems so complicated these days. I reffed at a number of levels from schoolboy to junior club level from about 1980 until 2002. It seemed pretty straightforward to me but as a former centre I probably made it up as I went along. Those who criticise the man with the whistle should remember what a tough job it is.

Stopsy
04/11/2014 19:31
Thanks for that Ken, I echo the "too long away" sentiments.

When you look at the great Tightheads over the years and different laws (and interpretation) there is one constant, technique, mentality and strength are more important than size.

Also Tighthead A will struggle against Loosehead B but dominate Loosehead C whereas Tighthead D will have the opposite.

When I played, International props were about 14 stones and yet even at youth level I played against 21 stone Looseheads, mainly lard (who would never survive today's game).

I played both sides to a degree but was always more comfortable at Tight.

Ethan I am sure could play both, he is obviously a talented athlete but whether it works for him is another matter. Rowntree struggled at Tighthead while manfully filling the breach so success on one side neither guarantees nor debars success on the other.

oddshapedballs
04/11/2014 19:57
Welcome back, broonie!

I have been coruscating in the past concerning what was a fool's errand of trying to convert a half decent loose-head into a poor imitation of a tight-head (Robbie Morris, anyone). But this was in the days of the big hit.

A loose-head used to operating against a big aggressive unit tended to make mincemeat of one of the converted types. I can remember a hardly regarded former Old Scout called Kelvin Day absolutely take Dave Flatman apart playing tight-head for Saracens. No wonder he exited there for the Avon water meadows. No more money just a promise to play on the left.

I am still on the sceptical wing on the argument while acknowledging the points made by broonie concerning the explosion of the big hit compared with the grapple of the long bind. It would be a crying shame to see Ethan's stellar potential become diluted down to a damp squib.

Can anyone give me a list of dark arts practitioners that have made on both sides of the scrum?

[lowrence.com]

Saint Tim
04/11/2014 21:03
broonie - all I can say is fan flippin fantastic. Great to have you - and odd shaped back.

http://www.smurfomatic.plus.com/sttim.gif

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Benjamin Franklin

Tetleys Block F E143

Saint Maul
04/11/2014 21:47
Thanks Broonie and welcome back.

I always enjoy learning from your front row explanations.

I also wondered at the time if Cole was struggling under the new scrum interpretations. It will be fascinating to see how he goes on his return.

Stingray66
04/11/2014 22:33
Without deriding anyone else I think that is the most interesting post I've read for a long, long time. Especially for an ex winger that can give Broonie a good five years.

Welcome back Broonie. It's been far too long.

Eif Jones
05/11/2014 02:51
When Adam J was asked how do you become an international standard tight head prop, his answer 'game time'. The only way to learn is by playing regularly against the top loose-heads. You can get away with playing the odd one-off games, but to do it regularly demands a lot of hard work on the field. Ethan hardly gets any game time at loose-head so best of luck to him if he tries tight-head.

fair_weather_fan
05/11/2014 05:43
Puzzled as no article or link to one appears anywhere I can find on my Galaxy

Saint Maul
05/11/2014 08:13
Is the hit slowly creeping back into the game?

I'm hoping the lawmakers and refs have learnt from where scrums constantly collapsed. However, watching some recent games the mini-hit seems to be getting more pronounced which is a concern. Just when I was getting used to enjoying watching an old school wrestle!

OldPete
05/11/2014 08:20
much thanks for that Broonie - long overdue both in terms of the substance of the article and a contribution from yourself.

Saint Adam of Weedon
05/11/2014 10:05
Quote:
SaintMaul
Is the hit slowly creeping back into the game?
I'm hoping the lawmakers and refs have learnt from where scrums constantly collapsed. However, watching some recent games the mini-hit seems to be getting more pronounced which is a concern. Just when I was getting used to enjoying watching an old school wrestle!

That's my perception as well Saint Maul, whilst it's obviously not at the level it was, the initial impact is becoming more and more powerful once again. Oh, and they've gone back to ignoring blatant feeds into the 2nd row. The brief hiatus when we had the odd proper scrummaging contest was quite a refreshing change.

Church's Stand, Block R, at the back noisily making lots of noise

St Marlowe
05/11/2014 11:33
fwf try this http://www.rugbynetwork.net/main/s99/st187671.htm

David L

What if there were no hypothetical questions?

- Live wrong and preposterously

oldtoastersaint
05/11/2014 11:36
Fwf Go to Message Board then click 'Saints and Sinners...' same glitch more usually associated with previews and match reports, nothing to do with your Galaxy.Surprised it still can't be sorted. OTS

Bernie
05/11/2014 19:54
Very informative and a good read. Thanks for the clarification Sir!

Per Ardua Ad Astra

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