Saracens
IRISH PREVIEW - please post all match-related comments here
By The Saracens
December 21 2022
Friday night sees a return to Premiership Action after what seems like an age (actually 5 weeks – 13th November!). Sarries travel south to Brentford on Friday night to take on London Irish at the GTech Community Stadium. Irish haven’t had the best of seasons, currently sitting in 11th place with just 2 wins from 9 games.
However, with the exception of a heavy loss to Sale (and defeat to Bath), Irish have taken a losing bonus point from each of the other 5 losses. So close! Almost the mirror image of Sarries this season: where we have managed to squeak a win, Irish have gone the other way. How different the table might look if things had happened in reverse! It all comes down to belief in the end, something Sarries now have in spades but which still eludes Irish. In recent times, the Oirish have proved something of a bogey team for Sarries. One only has to think back to last November when Sarries almost sacrificed a 34-8 lead against 14 man Irish – Rory Jennings kicking a terrific conversion to level the scores right at the death. Then in February, a last minute penalty from Paddy Jackson snatched a win from Sarries’ grasp with a 32-30 victory in Brentford. In fact you have to go back to August Bank Holiday 2020 for the last time Sarries beat Irish in the Premiership. Now there’s a thought!
Irish won their last Premiership game (at home to Newcastle) and have won all but 1 of their last 6 home games in all competitions (the defeat by just 1 point to Gloucester). Such narrow margins. Sarries have never won at Irish’s new home – losing in the Premiership last season and the cup earlier in this one. Time for a change! Between them the 2 clubs have the league's top try scorers with Sarries’ Max Malins on 8 (approx. 1 try for every hour played this season) and Ollie Hassell Collins one of 3 players on 7.
Irish have been on a bit of a journey (literally) to Cape Town and back last weekend losing 34-14 to DHL Stormers. Although jetlag isn’t an issue travelling to South Africa, the better part of 24 hours in the air could well be. Irish are without Argentinian hooker Augustin Creevy who picked up a 4 week suspension after R1 for a dangerous tackle. Irish are also without England’s hot prospect Henry Arundell. They still have plenty of talent (literally) in the wings with Ollie (now Oliver?) Hassell-Collins, Ben Loader (who looked pretty handy last week) and Sarrie-to-be Tom Parton. The rehabilitated Paddy Jackson (currently in the lead for the Golden Boot) and Rory Jennings provide solidity at 10. Irish’s Tom Pearson is the League’s top tackler and Irish have the League’s best line-out record
Sarries of course now carry the additional burden of being “unbeaten”. Who will be the first team to take them down? The victory in France came at a price with both Alec Clarey and Alex Lozowski forced to sit this one out due to being in detention. No update on Maro’s injury but Hunter-Hill was also a casualty in France so we could be a bit short at lock. Is Nick Isiekwe ready to return yet? Alex Lewington & Sean Maitland may have a point to prove against their old team. I am sure Sarries will field a strong line-up in this stop-start season we’ve had. They won’t want to relinquish that unbeaten record just yet. A strong performance across Christmas and into the New Year in this run of games against Irish, Exeter and then away to Gloucester will go a long way to securing a play off spot.
I would expect to see something like: Mako, Jamie, Riccioni, Isiekwe/Tizard Theo, Christie, Earl, Billy, Van Zyl, Owen, Malins, Tompkins, Daly, Maitland, Goode run out on Friday night.
Matt Carley is in charge assisted by Craig Maxwell-Keys and Gareth Holsgrove with Rowan Kitt in the TV van. It should be another Sarries’ victory but we all know nothing is ever quite that simple!
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Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 21/12/2022 19:24
TheSaracens.com
21/12/2022 19:24
21/12/2022 19:24
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:04:22:10:56 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:04:22:10:56 by Darraghgirl.
Thanks, great preview, though I hope the team don't head to Brentwood: that would be another ignominious way to earn defeat!
I agree it will be a strong side but might there be some squad rotation: for instance, Aled Davies in for Van Zyl who gets Christmas (and New Year?) in the South African sun? Anyone monitoring player social messaging?
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
I agree it will be a strong side but might there be some squad rotation: for instance, Aled Davies in for Van Zyl who gets Christmas (and New Year?) in the South African sun? Anyone monitoring player social messaging?
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
I guess there isnt a good evening to travel to Brentwood but the Friday before Xmas certainly isnt one with the added problems of train strikes putting trains out of place this week. I imagine even for home supporters this isnt a great night to go with many going away for the holiday. With so many games missing from the schedules clubs would do well to try and maximise attendances for the remaining home games they have. Hoping next year we play them on a weekend so I can get there as its one of our closest away matches. Will watch on BTTV.
I agree with you Maynas but actually London Irish are saying they are looking at their biggest crowd of the seaso, so there must be some who think they can get there
I certainly wish it was in Brentwood rather than Brentford!
I actually think we might have won there in the August game in 2020.
So unbeaten Sarries head to Irish for festive fixture. This was also the case in 2009 when we went to the Madejski stadium on Boxing Day. We only got there at halftime after appalling traffic, lost the game and had car trouble on the way home. We hardly won again before March. Hoping for better this time!
I actually think we might have won there in the August game in 2020.
So unbeaten Sarries head to Irish for festive fixture. This was also the case in 2009 when we went to the Madejski stadium on Boxing Day. We only got there at halftime after appalling traffic, lost the game and had car trouble on the way home. We hardly won again before March. Hoping for better this time!
I have to say i was targeting this as a trip but after seeing my energy deal come to end earlier in december and a lot of sickness going around my house, the train strikes were the last straw to make sure i wasnt going to get stranded in euston..
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
I always feel nervous about teams who form suggest we should beat comfortably. Bath (then sitting bottom of the table) earlier this season was the last time and they gave us a proper shock (and arguably should have won) In previous years Sarries would often rock up to a Welsh team at the time getting a spanking from all and sundry in the Pro-Many and get a similar shock when they fronted up.
I'm delighted with where we are but as identified in the preview the difference between squeaking a win and squealing a loss is a good chunk of table position in this League. I'm a bit nervous which is going to come first, a capitulation and "shock" loss or a thumping win when it all clicks? Fingers crossed for the later. Also whilst everyone is very intently avoiding mentioning unbeaten Premiership runs we're getting close to that territory which is surely an added incentive for the opposition (if they needed it)
COYS and looking forward to seeing the team we can put come 12.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:22:11:14:00 by OldMarovian.
I'm delighted with where we are but as identified in the preview the difference between squeaking a win and squealing a loss is a good chunk of table position in this League. I'm a bit nervous which is going to come first, a capitulation and "shock" loss or a thumping win when it all clicks? Fingers crossed for the later. Also whilst everyone is very intently avoiding mentioning unbeaten Premiership runs we're getting close to that territory which is surely an added incentive for the opposition (if they needed it)
COYS and looking forward to seeing the team we can put come 12.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:22:11:14:00 by OldMarovian.
Saracens Men team to play London Irish:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Robin Hislop
18 Eduardo Bello
19 Andrew Kitchener
20 Jackson Wray
21 Aled Davies
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Max Malins
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Robin Hislop
18 Eduardo Bello
19 Andrew Kitchener
20 Jackson Wray
21 Aled Davies
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Max Malins
Nick Isiekwe is back!
Saracens Men team to play London Irish:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Robin Hislop
18 Eduardo Bello
19 Andrew Kitchener
20 Jackson Wray
21 Aled Davies
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Max Malins
Saracens Men team to play London Irish:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Tom Woolstencroft
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Nick Isiekwe
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Alex Lewington
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Kapeli Pifeleti
17 Robin Hislop
18 Eduardo Bello
19 Andrew Kitchener
20 Jackson Wray
21 Aled Davies
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Max Malins
London Irish:
15 Ben Loader,
14 Lucio Cinti,
13 Will Joseph,
12 Benhard van Rensburg,
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins,
10 Paddy Jackson,
9 Ben White,
1 Will Goodrick-Clarke,
2 Mike Willemse,
3 Oliver Hoskins,
4 Api Ratuniyarawa,
5 Adam Coleman (c),
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez,
7 Tom Pearson,
8 So’otala Fa’aso’o.
Replacements:
16 Ignacio Ruiz,
17 Danilo Fischetti,
18 Ciaran Parker,
19 Chunya Munga,
20 Rob Simmons,
21 Chandler Cunningham-South,
22 Caolan Englefield,
23 Rory Jennings.
15 Ben Loader,
14 Lucio Cinti,
13 Will Joseph,
12 Benhard van Rensburg,
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins,
10 Paddy Jackson,
9 Ben White,
1 Will Goodrick-Clarke,
2 Mike Willemse,
3 Oliver Hoskins,
4 Api Ratuniyarawa,
5 Adam Coleman (c),
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez,
7 Tom Pearson,
8 So’otala Fa’aso’o.
Replacements:
16 Ignacio Ruiz,
17 Danilo Fischetti,
18 Ciaran Parker,
19 Chunya Munga,
20 Rob Simmons,
21 Chandler Cunningham-South,
22 Caolan Englefield,
23 Rory Jennings.
I just hope duncan survives this game uninjured!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Quote:Hopefully he lasts until Christmas!ninjafez
I just hope duncan survives this game uninjured!
Welcome back Nick! Delighted to see he’s fit again. You could easily see him and Hugh as a future England pairing. Also good to see Bello on the bench, high hopes for him. Jamie and Theo just rested hopefully with one eye on a resurgent Chiefs.
London Irish were our bogey team last year, a few cracking matches. Hopefully we’ll get another on Friday!
London Irish were our bogey team last year, a few cracking matches. Hopefully we’ll get another on Friday!
I'd echo all the happiness at Isiekwes return and also the first proper opportunity to see Bello in a Premiership game. As others say hopefully it's rotation (and bans!) keeping a few players out rather than new injuries. Good to see Pifeleti back too and it's a mark of the impression Dan made when given his opportunity that I can't wait to see him progress further into the senior team.
If Taylor if fit enough to bench then I'd quite like to have seen him started against LIs midfield. I guess it all depends how much attacking versus how much defending we do. I really like Van Rensberg, incredibly skilful and absolute 'nails. LI even use him as a lineout option every once in a while. Him versus Tompkins should be great.
Looking forward to the game even more now.
If Taylor if fit enough to bench then I'd quite like to have seen him started against LIs midfield. I guess it all depends how much attacking versus how much defending we do. I really like Van Rensberg, incredibly skilful and absolute 'nails. LI even use him as a lineout option every once in a while. Him versus Tompkins should be great.
Looking forward to the game even more now.
Quote:AP
Thanks, great preview, though I hope the team don't head to Brentwood: that would be another ignominious way to earn defeat!
I agree it will be a strong side but might there be some squad rotation: for instance, Aled Davies in for Van Zyl who gets Christmas (and New Year?) in the South African sun? Anyone monitoring player social messaging?
oops! all corrected now
Quote:DarraghgirlQuote:AP
Thanks, great preview, though I hope the team don't head to Brentwood: that would be another ignominious way to earn defeat!
I agree it will be a strong side but might there be some squad rotation: for instance, Aled Davies in for Van Zyl who gets Christmas (and New Year?) in the South African sun? Anyone monitoring player social messaging?
oops! all corrected now
As I always said to work colleagues, it's a challenge I welcome to try to spot the deliberate mistake that they've inserted to see if I'm is reading a piece attentively. Brentwood / Brentford was a corker.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Quote:TommyKentish
. Jamie and Theo just rested hopefully with one eye on a resurgent Chiefs.
!
Social media would suggest that one of Jamie's brothers is in town for the first time in four years, so I guess he is partying.
They'll be able to row a boat there at this rate. Biblical rain in my part of North London ...
not much dryer up in far Buckinghamshire but i don't think i can row fast enough down the Grand Union even if i set off now 
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Quote:Social media would suggest that one of Jamie's brothers is in town for the first time in four years, so I guess he is partying.
Won't be much of a party: Alex Goode's playing tonight. (However,I suppose he could go straight on to the party in his match kit.)
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
𝗧𝗘𝗔𝗠 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗚𝗘.
Josh Hallett comes on to the bench in place of Duncan Taylor.
Josh Hallett comes on to the bench in place of Duncan Taylor.
Not posted for a while but feel I need to vent.
The Ben Earl red card was a disgrace, so many factors but all ignored by Matt Carley levelling the game.
The Irish player was tackled by his own player in front of Earl and Ben couldn’t have been any lower!
Disgraceful from the ref
The Ben Earl red card was a disgrace, so many factors but all ignored by Matt Carley levelling the game.
The Irish player was tackled by his own player in front of Earl and Ben couldn’t have been any lower!
Disgraceful from the ref
Quote:I am aghast! Carley has lost the game.maynas
Stupid decision, how can you compare those 2 tackles yet the same decision?
Ben Earl was squatting for that tackle and the Irish player dropped as his team mate pole axed him!
Whoa, did Kapeli concede a penalty for celebrating his own try? Seriously?
Crazy by Carley I am afraid - and no judgment against the Irish player who then hit KP in the chest
I forgot that Saracens are the new Bath and expect refs to give them every decision. Earl had no intention to tackle. There was no attempt to wrap, just a cheap shot shoulder charge.
So we get marched back twice before getting a warning, LI get a warning "don't be lime them"...
Earl red should have been a yellow imo couldn't get any lower and the actions of the LI player's team mate meant he didn't have time to adjust to wrap.
Penalty restart was a joke, if you're going to penalise him fine but the reverse it for retaliation.
Carley has never liked us
Earl red should have been a yellow imo couldn't get any lower and the actions of the LI player's team mate meant he didn't have time to adjust to wrap.
Penalty restart was a joke, if you're going to penalise him fine but the reverse it for retaliation.
Carley has never liked us
Quote:Jonny_C
I forgot that Saracens are the new Bath and expect refs to give them every decision. Earl had no intention to tackle. There was no attempt to wrap, just a cheap shot shoulder charge.
There was no attempt to wrap because there was no intention to tackle, the speed the player came in he didn't have time to adjust
Earls felt like a harsh red, I suspect of LI were 15, it would have been yellow. Can't argue with the logic I guess
People would like Saracens more if they weren’t so bloody petulant. Such a good side otherwise…..
The head hot on Bill is one thing, what about the deliberate trip from Paddy Jackson first?
Quote:Jonny_C
I forgot that Saracens are the new Bath and expect refs to give them every decision.
Excellent bants, well done you.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The worst, dreadful, Sarries performance for ten years.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Quote:I would counter that the refs help for Irish is contributing.Innings
The worst, dreadful, Sarries performance for ten years.
Quote:Innings
The worst, dreadful, Sarries performance for ten years.
We weren’t great
Id say we lost that as much as Irish won. The run had to end somewhere, that's as good a place as any.
Rubbish first half and even worse when down to 14-12. Ruined my Christmas.
Will Billy ever learn to shut up?
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Got what we deserved. Don’t necessarily agree that Charley made a difference! We should have scored a try when they were down to 12. The backs should have joined the maul near the line! Heyho
Another game where we have numbers and keep kicking the ball away. Such a poor performance. We look like we haven't got a clue what we are trying to do.
Absolutely poor play in last 5 minutes, its like they wanted to lose the unbeaten tag before year end.
So much opportunity so little result
So much opportunity so little result
Quote:yeah, either 14 v 12 shove, or all line up, pass along the line til they run out of players!!!Kevetty
Got what we deserved. Don’t necessarily agree that Charley made a difference! We should have scored a try when they were down to 12. The backs should have joined the maul near the line! Heyho
very frustrating listen, sounds poetic that the killer blow comes from a bad lineout again.
congrats Irish..
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
congrats Irish..
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
I hope that Woolstencroft is ok. Back not long after a long period out and is hit with a properly nasty head-shot.
Unfortunately that's probably a result that's been coming a while. It says everything that Sarries weren't even able to hold on for the LBP.
It's easy to talk about the referee but I'm afraid Sarries were mind-numbingly dull when a man (plus) up and that lies squarely with some senior decision-makers.
Discipline continues to be a problem too and whilst I have some sympathy given the quality of refereeing it's still a really obvious issue and work-on for the team.
Billy aside that's as poor as I've seen from many senior players in an age.
Bank it for now and enjoy the Christmas/festive period team. The team have given us plenty of rugby to be thrilled with this season. When they return however that needs a proper review.
With the streak gone at least the only pressure for the Chiefs game is to get the show back on the road after that dross.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:23:22:13:00 by OldMarovian.
Unfortunately that's probably a result that's been coming a while. It says everything that Sarries weren't even able to hold on for the LBP.
It's easy to talk about the referee but I'm afraid Sarries were mind-numbingly dull when a man (plus) up and that lies squarely with some senior decision-makers.
Discipline continues to be a problem too and whilst I have some sympathy given the quality of refereeing it's still a really obvious issue and work-on for the team.
Billy aside that's as poor as I've seen from many senior players in an age.
Bank it for now and enjoy the Christmas/festive period team. The team have given us plenty of rugby to be thrilled with this season. When they return however that needs a proper review.
With the streak gone at least the only pressure for the Chiefs game is to get the show back on the road after that dross.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:23:22:13:00 by OldMarovian.
Quote:flavman 35
Another game where we have numbers and keep kicking the ball away
It's beyond brainless.
Quote:Nosher1979Quote:I would counter that the refs help for Irish is contributing.Innings
The worst, dreadful, Sarries performance for ten years.
Dude, we were down to 12 at one point. Give your fez a wobble.
so may of them last 2 seasons kicking ball away with the man advantage
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, from the DT:
"Theo McFarland, their superb Samoa international, is understood to have suffered a ruptured anterior cruciate knee ligament in a training accident and is likely to miss the remainder of the campaign"
Terrible news and ofc wish Theo all the best.
"Theo McFarland, their superb Samoa international, is understood to have suffered a ruptured anterior cruciate knee ligament in a training accident and is likely to miss the remainder of the campaign"
Terrible news and ofc wish Theo all the best.
Quote:1876-Fez
Dunc pulled out.. Josh Hallett in...
Not another injury!
BT suggested a hamstring problem.
Apparently he has spend 40% of his career injured.
and yet year after year Sarries offer him a new contract? Think what that money could have got this season with the players available from Wuss and Wasps.
Meh, I'm getting grumpy now
Merry Christmas one and all. Hoping for a much better game for the last day of the year.
Meh, I'm getting grumpy now
Merry Christmas one and all. Hoping for a much better game for the last day of the year.
Fair play to Irish they fronted up today. What Sarries offered for this game I do not know. Blunt in attack. Criminal not to score when you have a 2 man advantage for 10. Countless internationals on our side of the field but none of them could come up with anything more creative than picking and going?
To all the armchair critics on here;
- yes it's incredibly frustrating
- would you say it to McCall's face?
- don't blame the ref
- the winning run had to end
- always back the men in black/white
- Tom, hope you are ok
- very well done Irish, I mean doubly well done!
Of course I was ranting here at home but no way is that appearing on socios media.
Happy Christmas
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
- yes it's incredibly frustrating
- would you say it to McCall's face?
- don't blame the ref
- the winning run had to end
- always back the men in black/white
- Tom, hope you are ok
- very well done Irish, I mean doubly well done!
Of course I was ranting here at home but no way is that appearing on socios media.
Happy Christmas
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
Love the sentiment, but come on. Two men up for 10 and we can't even score?
Well that was incredibly poor from us all match. Not quite on the level of Clermont in the snow but up there.
I can’t understand where our attack went all day but especially when we had a two man advantage and we had Faz, Daly and Goode in the back line! I’d immediately bring Dan back into the squad on that performance from Pifeleti, just not good enough with our lineout options.
Really hope Wolfy is ok, that was a horror hit and looked like Coleman fell on his head after too.
Hopefully that gives us a kick up the @#$%& for next week because Chiefs are in serious form at the moment and will tear through us if we play like that again.
I can’t understand where our attack went all day but especially when we had a two man advantage and we had Faz, Daly and Goode in the back line! I’d immediately bring Dan back into the squad on that performance from Pifeleti, just not good enough with our lineout options.
Really hope Wolfy is ok, that was a horror hit and looked like Coleman fell on his head after too.
Hopefully that gives us a kick up the @#$%& for next week because Chiefs are in serious form at the moment and will tear through us if we play like that again.
Quote:I’m sorry but I have the right to complain, what’s the point of a forum if we can’t voice our opinion?Happy Sarrie
To all the armchair critics on here;
- yes it's incredibly frustrating
- would you say it to McCall's face?
I’d ask him the question, yes
- don't blame the ref
I didn’t
- the winning run had to end
Yes but you still expect a good performance
- always back the men in black/white
No one said they’d stopped backing the team
- Tom, hope you are ok
Of course
- very well done Irish, I mean doubly well done!
Of course I was ranting here at home but no way is that appearing on socios media.
I’m sorry I’m not a saint like you
Happy Christmas
That was certainly a disappointing performance. Irish backs showed far more creativity than ours - I think Daly is far more of a threat when playing full back.
Up front we simply didn’t impose ourselves on a committed Irish pack and showed some poor ill discipline. As others have said our line out was woeful and probably lost us the game, as we only had Nick and Andy as jumpers and Kapeli is simply not good enough as a thrower.
Our lack of intensity and game management when Irish were down to 12 was a season low.
I also thought that the Ben Earl decision was very harsh but Carley was following the letter of the law, but there were so many mitigating circumstances (player falling, Ben very low, reduced time meaning that arm wasn’t out).
Really bad news about Theo and we need Jamie , Maro and Alex back if we are to give Exeter a decent game as we will be without Ben.
Up front we simply didn’t impose ourselves on a committed Irish pack and showed some poor ill discipline. As others have said our line out was woeful and probably lost us the game, as we only had Nick and Andy as jumpers and Kapeli is simply not good enough as a thrower.
Our lack of intensity and game management when Irish were down to 12 was a season low.
I also thought that the Ben Earl decision was very harsh but Carley was following the letter of the law, but there were so many mitigating circumstances (player falling, Ben very low, reduced time meaning that arm wasn’t out).
Really bad news about Theo and we need Jamie , Maro and Alex back if we are to give Exeter a decent game as we will be without Ben.
Utter carp.
When will we learn to keep our mouths shut when the ref gives a decision that we don't like? We should know by now that Carley & Pearce in particular don't tolerate back chat.
When will we learn to keep our mouths shut when the ref gives a decision that we don't like? We should know by now that Carley & Pearce in particular don't tolerate back chat.
Agree 100% that you can’t show arrogance to arrogance and win the argument.
Difficult to do when the ref is not applying all rules. They are in charge and apply rules that are on the ground in the game.
Couldn’t see what else Earl could do in the situation and hence has to be sent off (is that what we are saying?)
Consistency is key. I realise it is a different game but I’m reminded of last weeks Farrell neck shot!
Difficult to do when the ref is not applying all rules. They are in charge and apply rules that are on the ground in the game.
Couldn’t see what else Earl could do in the situation and hence has to be sent off (is that what we are saying?)
Consistency is key. I realise it is a different game but I’m reminded of last weeks Farrell neck shot!
Having mentioned it earlier that really was very similar to the Bath game.
An early frustration with how the game was going and that the opposition seemingly hadn't read the script and were fronting up compounded by annoyance at the refereeing performance leading to the team as a whole losing their heads.
It isn't a uniquely Sarries thing by any stretch of the imagination but it always seems incredible how many teams when numbers up waste time and miss opportunities by trying to bludgeon the line, carry after carry. The opportunities to leave with a TBP and win were legion.
HS, would people say it to McCall? absolutely and if he doesn't know already (which ofc he does) then we have real problems. The discipline issues are seasons long ones. Kicking away great attacking ball is a similar one.
With likely no Theo our lineout situation even with George and Maro back has got big issues in both attack and defence a tough one to sort but we can't afford our set piece to be that weak.
An early frustration with how the game was going and that the opposition seemingly hadn't read the script and were fronting up compounded by annoyance at the refereeing performance leading to the team as a whole losing their heads.
It isn't a uniquely Sarries thing by any stretch of the imagination but it always seems incredible how many teams when numbers up waste time and miss opportunities by trying to bludgeon the line, carry after carry. The opportunities to leave with a TBP and win were legion.
HS, would people say it to McCall? absolutely and if he doesn't know already (which ofc he does) then we have real problems. The discipline issues are seasons long ones. Kicking away great attacking ball is a similar one.
With likely no Theo our lineout situation even with George and Maro back has got big issues in both attack and defence a tough one to sort but we can't afford our set piece to be that weak.
A big part of the problem was that Nick went to the back for each lineout mskibg it even harder for the thrower. One of the few he caught was so far off straight I was astonished it was let go.
I thought pretty much every lineout for us and them wasn’t straight. Carley is strangely pernickety about everything apart from that aspect. I also think Nick was going to the back because Irish were sticking their one real jumper at the front a lot to disrupt, which was a smart tactic.
I'm disappointed with the result and performance but not dis-spirited. Realistically every team, even champion teams, have bad spells as we have before in eventually successful seasons. Last night's result also illustrates how competitive our league is, with small margins making all the difference. There will be other games where either our opponents are off their game, as we were last night, and/or where everything clicks for us.
So, time to enjoy the festive break and think of the positives i.e. we've still go a decent buffer at the top of the league and, after what looked nasty yesterday, Wolfie is apparently OK.
So, time to enjoy the festive break and think of the positives i.e. we've still go a decent buffer at the top of the league and, after what looked nasty yesterday, Wolfie is apparently OK.
In the old days we had a wobble on Boxing day that went on for most of January. Hopefully we will get it sorted for next week.
According to the Commentary, this is the 3rd consecutive Sarries/LI fixture where there has been a Red Card. Surely if the league are serious about making rugby safer they need to start looking at stats like this. Do the players see this as a "grudge-match"?
According to the Commentary, this is the 3rd consecutive Sarries/LI fixture where there has been a Red Card. Surely if the league are serious about making rugby safer they need to start looking at stats like this. Do the players see this as a "grudge-match"?
Quote:Roger G
I'm disappointed with the result and performance but not dis-spirited. Realistically every team, even champion teams, have bad spells as we have before in eventually successful seasons. Last night's result also illustrates how competitive our league is, with small margins making all the difference. There will be other games where either our opponents are off their game, as we were last night, and/or where everything clicks for us.
So, time to enjoy the festive break and think of the positives i.e. we've still go a decent buffer at the top of the league and, after what looked nasty yesterday, Wolfie is apparently OK.
+1
Excellent post Roger G with the objectivity I lack
Being a Bristol fan I have a lot of respect for Ben Earl, he was fantastic for us. That red card was more than harsh, yellow would still have been unlucky. He had no time to adjust, the LI player was tripped by his own player. There are still 'rugby' incidents.....
....it helps that Sale lost!! Even if they did get a LBP!!
Merry Christmas everyone.... see you on NYE..
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Merry Christmas everyone.... see you on NYE..
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Quote:Surbiton Sarries
Utter carp.
When will we learn to keep our mouths shut when the ref gives a decision that we don't like? We should know by now that Carley & Pearce in particular don't tolerate back chat.
I'm sure Carley will have woken up today feeling a little embarrassed, both in letting himself be talked out of the correct decision by the TMO in the Ben Earl red card and also the penalty to Irish for "excessive celebration", something that most referees grow out of after school rugby. If anything it should have been a penalty to Saracens for retaliation but it really should have been nothing at all other than a word to both captains.
Notwithstanding that, if we had cut out the dissent early doors, had even a semi-functioning set-piece and learned how to manage a 14 v 12 advantage, then any number of errors on Carley's part would have been taken totally out of the equation. Those are all aspects that can be worked on and eradicated.
One positive thing that you can say is that the Premiership is a lot more even this year. There is no team getting mullered every week and as I write Bristol are currently bottom, which when you consider some of the players they have is quite surprising. Salary cap decreases have probably levelled the Premiership playing field. However, I will be genuinely surprised if an English team goes far in the Champions cup as we are now really poor cousins compared to the likes of Leinster, Munster and most of the Top 14 (obviously not all French teams prioritise the CC). Be interesting to see whether Bulls or Sharks can make a mark this year.
TOKS, the biggest one for me was Paddy Jacksons deliberate trip that launched Bill into Jennings. Nasty, petulant, deliberate foul play.
Quote:LOL. Not even close.myleftboot
TOKS, the biggest one for me was Paddy Jacksons deliberate trip that launched Bill into Jennings. Nasty, petulant, deliberate foul play.
Quote:I agree. We do quite often have one or two really awful results and then come back raring to go and winning so I'm not that bothered by the result although we should have done better against 12 men! At least Wolfie is OK, got to take the positives!OldMarovianQuote:Roger G
I'm disappointed with the result and performance but not dis-spirited. Realistically every team, even champion teams, have bad spells as we have before in eventually successful seasons. Last night's result also illustrates how competitive our league is, with small margins making all the difference. There will be other games where either our opponents are off their game, as we were last night, and/or where everything clicks for us.
So, time to enjoy the festive break and think of the positives i.e. we've still go a decent buffer at the top of the league and, after what looked nasty yesterday, Wolfie is apparently OK.
+1
Excellent post Roger G with the objectivity I lack
Quote:deleted as incredibly tasteless sorryAPigUnderEachArmQuote:LOL. Not even close.myleftboot
TOKS, the biggest one for me was Paddy Jacksons deliberate trip that launched Bill into Jennings. Nasty, petulant, deliberate foul play.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:25:08:49:53 by myleftboot.
Yes of course very disappointing. But will we learn from some basic mistakes many that have often been repeated but go unnoticed because we have won. IMHO
One player in particular had a particularly bad game I think because he was trying too hard - to impress Borthwick.
Attempting to kick balls through the traffic and ricotheting off oppos. Not passing to fresh legs winger who could possible have ran to the try line. And when he did pass the ball it was inaccurate and slowed the attack.
As for the 14 vs 12 moment-: beggars belief. Perhaps Faz lost his voice due to @#$%& the the ref. The forwards need to be shouted at to get the ball out as there was 3 on 1 overlap.
Score once and we would probably have scored again and closed off the match.
Bit unsure whether P.J trip on Billy was deliberate.
However we have to look at the problems with our own game if we are to progress. Exeter will be smelling blood.
One player in particular had a particularly bad game I think because he was trying too hard - to impress Borthwick.
Attempting to kick balls through the traffic and ricotheting off oppos. Not passing to fresh legs winger who could possible have ran to the try line. And when he did pass the ball it was inaccurate and slowed the attack.
As for the 14 vs 12 moment-: beggars belief. Perhaps Faz lost his voice due to @#$%& the the ref. The forwards need to be shouted at to get the ball out as there was 3 on 1 overlap.
Score once and we would probably have scored again and closed off the match.
Bit unsure whether P.J trip on Billy was deliberate.
However we have to look at the problems with our own game if we are to progress. Exeter will be smelling blood.
Looks like we "chose" a good week to lose our first game with all in the Top4 managing to do so. Dickson almost beat Bears but in the end Quins couldn't do enough to drag him over the line. Whiteley doing Whiteley things both good and bad.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:28:13:30:04 by OldMarovian.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:12:28:13:30:04 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovian
Looks like we "chose" a good week to lose our first game with all in the Top14 managing to do so. Dickson almost beat Bears but in the end Quins couldn't do enough to drag him over the line. Whiteley doing Whiteley things both good and bad.
Yes watched Whitely, I thought he might be getting better but goes from hero to zero then back again. He only has one major flaw and I dont get why no one can coach it out of him. He seems to to decide when he is going to kick regardless of who is coming through on him and how close they are. TCUP Clive used to call it
Quote:flavman 35
Another game where we have numbers and keep kicking the ball away. Such a poor performance. We look like we haven't got a clue what we are trying to do.
I was there as well and we didnt even look on it in the warm up either. Not sure waht happened once we got off the bus. Mark knows..
Need to be better off the bus against Glos.
They don't seem to be very good at Friday night matches ..... Fortunately there aren't too many of them.
As OFD says we wasted a lot of great ball at 13. We did last time he was played there too. It's a lesson we're not learning. However it was far from the only issue, possibly not even the major one and he's been hugely valuable and influential in how we play when we play well but from FB (or better still wing IMO) not 13. Injuries are possibly dictating that choice right now tbf. Lozos return should sort that.
I haven't seen much of LI this season but their board suggests that's about as well as they've played this season. Possibly as poorly as Sarries have played (ofc those two things are linked) and we still should have won. Being a glutton for punishment I re-watched the game and have felt that the referee got the big calls right. So many things you could point to in Sarries own control that would have won the game. The comms from the match suggested we score the most points in the League when the team is a man down so maybe the game was an aberration? If so I'm sure the coaches will be working out why.
One of the huge differences in performances over lower teams in beating Top4 this weekend is they have all showed up big time in commitment terms. Where Sarries a bit complacent? I'm afraid it looked a bit like that to me but maybe I'm being unfair.
I certainly hope to see a response against Chiefs. Bath lost a game they should have won by trying to kick and defend Chiefs to a loss which I guess will encourage us to head down the same route. We beat them as SP playing barely any rugby after all. That said teams that have caused them real problems are those that have denied them possession and attacked them out wide. It'll be interesting to see what we do.
I haven't seen much of LI this season but their board suggests that's about as well as they've played this season. Possibly as poorly as Sarries have played (ofc those two things are linked) and we still should have won. Being a glutton for punishment I re-watched the game and have felt that the referee got the big calls right. So many things you could point to in Sarries own control that would have won the game. The comms from the match suggested we score the most points in the League when the team is a man down so maybe the game was an aberration? If so I'm sure the coaches will be working out why.
One of the huge differences in performances over lower teams in beating Top4 this weekend is they have all showed up big time in commitment terms. Where Sarries a bit complacent? I'm afraid it looked a bit like that to me but maybe I'm being unfair.
I certainly hope to see a response against Chiefs. Bath lost a game they should have won by trying to kick and defend Chiefs to a loss which I guess will encourage us to head down the same route. We beat them as SP playing barely any rugby after all. That said teams that have caused them real problems are those that have denied them possession and attacked them out wide. It'll be interesting to see what we do.
Quote:warwick5763
Yes watched Whitely, I thought he might be getting better but goes from hero to zero then back again. He only has one major flaw and I dont get why no one can coach it out of him. He seems to to decide when he is going to kick regardless of who is coming through on him and how close they are. TCUP Clive used to call it
Whitely is a total liability and I am not surprised he gets so little game time at Bears. It’s his indecision at the base of a ruck. Head up like a meerkat looking left and right inviting the opposition to drive over the ball. He was also a bit lucky Esterhuizen had already lost the ball at the end as otherwise trying to strip it while sitting in his backside could have meant trouble. I don’t think he deserves any credit for that - it was all down to the amazing tap tackle from McInty.
There are not many teams in the UK where McInty wouldnt make a positive difference.
JimG I think you are being rather unfair on Whitely. He showed real commitment with some good tackles for a scrum half (van Zyl scores highly in this area). His speed is invaluable both in attack and defence. He took a very good catch at speed and but for over egging his return kick it would have been a superb piece of play.
His box kicking technique is not brilliant but the Bristol pack seemed to be under the cosh most of the time he was on. So definitely flawed but still a valuable contribution in helping Bristol hang on.
His box kicking technique is not brilliant but the Bristol pack seemed to be under the cosh most of the time he was on. So definitely flawed but still a valuable contribution in helping Bristol hang on.
Quote:darktagnan
doles anyone know when Ben's hearing is set for?
I've searched but can't find notification of any citings from the weekend games. Does a red card automatically get a one match ban?
Quote:tpr's headmistressQuote:darktagnan
doles anyone know when Ben's hearing is set for?
I've searched but can't find notification of any citings from the weekend games. Does a red card automatically get a one match ban?
I wouldn’t have thought so as occasionally red cards are overturned on appeal.
Perhaps the RFU officials can’t be bothered to work this week!
Hopefully he's got the same adjudication as those who look to have kicked Marlers indiscretion into the long grass?
𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗜𝗣𝗟𝗜𝗡𝗔𝗥𝗬 𝗨𝗣𝗗𝗔𝗧𝗘.
@BenEarlba
is free to play again with immediate effect.
Earl received a red card for dangerous tackling contrary to World Rugby Law 9.13 in the match against London Irish on 23 December which was dismissed by the panel.
@BenEarlba
is free to play again with immediate effect.
Earl received a red card for dangerous tackling contrary to World Rugby Law 9.13 in the match against London Irish on 23 December which was dismissed by the panel.
Colemans is a joke. I'll be interested to read the citing report but he has no "good behaviour" to mitigate it quite the opposite. He should be looking at top-end for the tackle with only the ridiculous mitigation for behaving during the hearing and pleading guilty.
For Earl that means they didn't think it was a red? or that it warranted no further sanction? Good news either way for us.
For Earl that means they didn't think it was a red? or that it warranted no further sanction? Good news either way for us.
So what sanction does ref and TMO get for screwing up? Utterly mystifying how they could have failed to find adequate mitigation.
I think the problem for Carley is that he is a limited thinker and because of what he deemed was still a tucked arm he then followed the letter of the law and that there could be no mitigation for Ben already being on his knees (or for anything else).
What this limited analysis misses is that the reason Ben’s arm was still back was because the player was being tackled down and into him which massively speeded up the time he had to react.
To me it is that rugby incident that acts as mitigation before the tucked arm consideration and you could then argue there is further mitigation from being low - so red downgraded twice to a penalty.
However, you look at it, it goes as a blot in Carley’s record!
What this limited analysis misses is that the reason Ben’s arm was still back was because the player was being tackled down and into him which massively speeded up the time he had to react.
To me it is that rugby incident that acts as mitigation before the tucked arm consideration and you could then argue there is further mitigation from being low - so red downgraded twice to a penalty.
However, you look at it, it goes as a blot in Carley’s record!
On the bright side, even having Benny on the pitch, I reckon we'd have found a way to cock it up!
Quote:cwrich
Monye is having a laugh. Congratulating Carley on his control. Wtf
Aye, I thought Ugo had been fired, but he's back to annoy us!
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
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