Saracens
EXETER v SARACENS - please post match related comments here
By TheSaracens
October 13 2023
Well, after a protracted pre-season and a delayed start to the 2023-24 campaign due to a bit of a rugby -fest taking place at the moment all over France, the Gallagher Premiership is finally underway this weekend with Sarries travelling to Sandy Park to meet up with our old chums and rivals Exeter Chiefs. I did wonder, digressing for a moment, if they might change the Jack Nowell lookalike logo now that everyone’s favourite Chiefs player has teamed up with Will Selton and co. at La Rochelle Last season, Sarries did the double over the Chiefs in the two league meetings – late last October, when a cucumber-cool Alex Goode landed what was, remarkably, his first kick to posts of the season, to break the hearts of the Sandy Park faithful and send the visiting Sarries into paroxysms of joy. I personally moved on from gratuitous hatred of Exeter a long time ago…but I do confess that one of my moments of the season was when the cameras picked up Tony Rowe’s expression as the game ended…. Sarries’ home fixture on New Year’s Eve was a more straightforward affair with a 35-3 win maintaining our season-long domination of the league. Sarries did of course not only stay top of the league throughout the season but also won the Premiership final against the emerging threat of Sale Sharks, whilst Chiefs, for a second consecutive season, failed to make the play-offs although their season was lifted a little by a run to the Champions Cup semi-finals before being eliminated by eventual winners (and Sarries’ quarter-final conquerors) La Rochelle.
Although, with varying and experimental line-ups selected by Premiership clubs in the Prem Cup meaning that the tournament should not be used as any real indication of what’s to come when the real business begins this weekend, Exeter have fared better then Sarries and qualified for the semi-finals.
It’s been well-documented that Chiefs, for a number of reasons, have been stripped of many of the stars who saw them though a successful decade, with this summer’s “outs” list featuring among others the likes of Sam and Joe Simmonds, Dave Ewers, Harry Williams, Jack Nowell, Jack Maunder, Stuart Hogg and Luke Cowan-Dickie; only Henry Slade remains of the titles-winning group.
The Chiefs’ “incoming” list is a lot shorter with Rob Baxter and his coaching team relying on an exciting crop of youngsters including Dafydd Jenkins and Christ Tshiunza, both of whom are at the World Cup with Wales: their only notable signing has been Joe Hawkins, the Ospreys and Wales centre.
Tomorrow, then, will be an intriguing encounter between a Chiefs side clearly in transition, whilst Sarries, evolving smoothly both in playing style and squad composition towards what we all believe is an exciting future, remain depleted by our World Cup call-ups for England, Argentina, Wales and Fiji but I do understand that Marco Riccioni and – wonderful news – Theo McFarland will be available to complement the travelling squad, which with the likes of the three Alexes, Nick Isiekwe, Roti, Tom Willis, Tom Parton, plus the rapidly emerging Samson Adejimi and Ollie Hartley, may I fancy have a little too much for Exeter.
We shall see..
Enjoy!
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StumbleuponExeter v Sarries Preview - post match comments here please
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 13/10/2023 13:03
TheSaracens.com
13/10/2023 13:03
13/10/2023 13:03
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:24:15:48:42 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:24:15:48:42 by Darraghgirl.
Saracens Men's team to play Exeter Chiefs:
1 Tom West
2 Samson Adejimi
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Alex Goode
11 Alex Lewington
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski (c)
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Tom Parton
Replacements:
16 James Hadfield
17 Ralph Adams-Hale
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Andy Christie
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Manu Vunipola
23 Sean Maitland
1 Tom West
2 Samson Adejimi
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Alex Goode
11 Alex Lewington
12 Olly Hartley
13 Alex Lozowski (c)
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Tom Parton
Replacements:
16 James Hadfield
17 Ralph Adams-Hale
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Andy Christie
21 Charlie Bracken
22 Manu Vunipola
23 Sean Maitland
Charlie Bracken on the bench! That’s a very tidy first XV if they play to their potential. Looking forward to seeing how Sansom does with the jump to prem level, very exciting prospect.
Quote:TommyKentish
Charlie Bracken on the bench! That’s a very tidy first XV if they play to their potential. Looking forward to seeing how Sansom does with the jump to prem level, very exciting prospect.
Me too - Samson doesn’t appear to lack confidence and I’m sure he’ll be aware of what an opportunity he has.
Any idea what has happened to Gareth Simpson? Looked good v Hartpury and kicked goals very impressively - like a new Ben Spencer. Did he pick up an injury?
It’s the absence of Woolfie that worries me. I’d imagine another concussion would spell the end for him so fingers crossed it’s not that
Looks like Sarries are taking the start of the season seriously!
Didn't expect either of McFarland or Riccioni straight in but that's surely a sign that they're raring to go and the club wants to hit the ground running.
Not familiar with Hafield but good luck to him. Otherwise like the look of the bench and delighted to see Clarey, RA-H, Christie and Maitland continue their returns from injury. Hopefully Manu can have a good impact from the bench. Also great to see Bracken Jnr on the bench.
Disappointed to see Goode at 10 but I get it.
Like other I appreciate that the club keeps injuries quiet but do we have any feel for whether the likes of Harris, Hoskins, Simpson, Woolstencroft, etc are injured or just rotated? As the Bard says hopefully not a head knock for him given his history.
Looking at the team sheets, tough a place as SP is to go, it feels like the team should be picking up an away win. That said, I am ignorant of too many of Chiefs players and how good they are and the cohesiveness they played with in the PRC is something Sarries are yet to show this season.
Hopefully it's a cracking game
Didn't expect either of McFarland or Riccioni straight in but that's surely a sign that they're raring to go and the club wants to hit the ground running.
Not familiar with Hafield but good luck to him. Otherwise like the look of the bench and delighted to see Clarey, RA-H, Christie and Maitland continue their returns from injury. Hopefully Manu can have a good impact from the bench. Also great to see Bracken Jnr on the bench.
Disappointed to see Goode at 10 but I get it.
Like other I appreciate that the club keeps injuries quiet but do we have any feel for whether the likes of Harris, Hoskins, Simpson, Woolstencroft, etc are injured or just rotated? As the Bard says hopefully not a head knock for him given his history.
Looking at the team sheets, tough a place as SP is to go, it feels like the team should be picking up an away win. That said, I am ignorant of too many of Chiefs players and how good they are and the cohesiveness they played with in the PRC is something Sarries are yet to show this season.
Hopefully it's a cracking game
On the hooker front I think we can presume that both KP and Wolfy are injured, which is a great shame from a timing perspective, with 2 of our hookers playing for England!
Quote:ComeOnSarries
On the hooker front I think we can presume that both KP and Wolfy are injured, which is a great shame from a timing perspective, with 2 of our hookers playing for England!
In the latest injury update ( [www.rugbynetwork.net] ) KP was listed as having picked up a shoulder injury in training.
Thanks SB.
In the DTs Premiership round-table McCall as usual offering little for others to feed on but think IVZ is the Premierships most underrated player (certainly agree he's in the running and is an incredible talent) thinks JMG is a "wow" signing, that Goode is the fittest player in the squad despite being in his "40's"
says Toby Knight is our current form player, doesn't like the Law that a drop-goal is worth 3 points (thinks it should be two, possibly a cheeky nod to the Tigers win!) thinks we need Internationals available all the time to boost the Premiership profile, likes beating and dislikes losing to ANYONE!
Baxter suggests he likes beating Sarries most and losing to them least ...
In the DTs Premiership round-table McCall as usual offering little for others to feed on but think IVZ is the Premierships most underrated player (certainly agree he's in the running and is an incredible talent) thinks JMG is a "wow" signing, that Goode is the fittest player in the squad despite being in his "40's"
says Toby Knight is our current form player, doesn't like the Law that a drop-goal is worth 3 points (thinks it should be two, possibly a cheeky nod to the Tigers win!) thinks we need Internationals available all the time to boost the Premiership profile, likes beating and dislikes losing to ANYONE!
Baxter suggests he likes beating Sarries most and losing to them least ...
A great demonstration from Tigers of what not to do away yesterday. Play to the oppositions strengths and only get off the bus at half time. Hopefully no similar issues for Sarries later today!
Fair play Bristol, great attack, resilient defence and Ibitoye was brilliant (as was Whiteley for Tigers. Without him they could have been nilled)
Fair play Bristol, great attack, resilient defence and Ibitoye was brilliant (as was Whiteley for Tigers. Without him they could have been nilled)
The more I look at the team, the more positive I feel.
Looking at Chiefs forum they seem quite optimistic too but a note of concern over lineout should be mana from heaven for us given our locks and McFarland at 6.
Add in a strong front row and bench which just hooker showing some inexperience (but great energy) and excellent backrow options including T Willis (probably our player of the season so far? Knight giving him a good run for his money) threats through the backs too and high % goal-kickers. It's almost how positive I feel that makes me think it's a trap!!!
Don't kick loose ball to Hodge, guard Carins like Sarries lives depend on it (the game may well!) don't feed their pick and go game with endless possession, attack their width and play at pace.
Or do something else but still win
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:09:38:57 by OldMarovian.
Looking at Chiefs forum they seem quite optimistic too but a note of concern over lineout should be mana from heaven for us given our locks and McFarland at 6.
Add in a strong front row and bench which just hooker showing some inexperience (but great energy) and excellent backrow options including T Willis (probably our player of the season so far? Knight giving him a good run for his money) threats through the backs too and high % goal-kickers. It's almost how positive I feel that makes me think it's a trap!!!
Don't kick loose ball to Hodge, guard Carins like Sarries lives depend on it (the game may well!) don't feed their pick and go game with endless possession, attack their width and play at pace.
Or do something else but still win
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:09:38:57 by OldMarovian.
From Premiership Rugby site:
Exeter Chiefs: 15 Josh Hodge, 14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, 13 Henry Slade, 12 Tom Hendrickson, 11 Tom Wyatt, 10 Harvey Skinner, 9 Tom Cairns; 1 Scott Sio, 2 Jack Yeandle (c), 3 Ehren Painter, 4 Rusi Tuima, 5 Lewis Pearson, 6 Ethan Roots, 7 Jacques Vermeulen, 8 Greg Fisilau
Replacements: 16 Max Norey, 17 Billy Keast, 18 Josh Iosefa-Scott, 19 Aidon Davis, 20 Ross Vintcent, 21 Niall Armstrong, 22 Will Haydon-Wood, 23 Ben Hammersley
- Exeter Chiefs were the most successful team off the kicking tee last season: their success rate when kicking at goal was 83.8%.
- The Chiefs made an average of 141 carries per 80 minutes last season – more than any other team. However, they made the fewest metres per carry in the league (2.8).
- Exeter Chiefs won the fewest turnovers per 80 minutes last season, an average of 4.7. However, they made the joint-most charge downs in the league (five).
- The Chiefs had the poorest scrum success rate in the league last season; they won just 82.1% of their own feeds. They also conceded a league-high total of 46 scrum penalties when not in possession.
Saracens
- Alex Goode assisted as many tries as any other player last season (12, = Danny Care).
- Saracens scored more points per 80 minutes than any other team last season, an average of 31.4. They also made the most clean breaks, a total of 226.
- Olly Hartley made more metres in contact in a single match last season than any other player: he made a total of 49 against Newcastle Falcons in February.
- So far in the Premiership Rugby Cup, Tom Willis has made more carries than any other Premiership player (70). He has also made ten offloads in five appearances and beaten double the number of defenders of any player in the PRC (40).
You can take the man out of Yorkshire but you can't take Yorkshire out of the man.
Exeter Chiefs: 15 Josh Hodge, 14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, 13 Henry Slade, 12 Tom Hendrickson, 11 Tom Wyatt, 10 Harvey Skinner, 9 Tom Cairns; 1 Scott Sio, 2 Jack Yeandle (c), 3 Ehren Painter, 4 Rusi Tuima, 5 Lewis Pearson, 6 Ethan Roots, 7 Jacques Vermeulen, 8 Greg Fisilau
Replacements: 16 Max Norey, 17 Billy Keast, 18 Josh Iosefa-Scott, 19 Aidon Davis, 20 Ross Vintcent, 21 Niall Armstrong, 22 Will Haydon-Wood, 23 Ben Hammersley
- Exeter Chiefs were the most successful team off the kicking tee last season: their success rate when kicking at goal was 83.8%.
- The Chiefs made an average of 141 carries per 80 minutes last season – more than any other team. However, they made the fewest metres per carry in the league (2.8).
- Exeter Chiefs won the fewest turnovers per 80 minutes last season, an average of 4.7. However, they made the joint-most charge downs in the league (five).
- The Chiefs had the poorest scrum success rate in the league last season; they won just 82.1% of their own feeds. They also conceded a league-high total of 46 scrum penalties when not in possession.
Saracens
- Alex Goode assisted as many tries as any other player last season (12, = Danny Care).
- Saracens scored more points per 80 minutes than any other team last season, an average of 31.4. They also made the most clean breaks, a total of 226.
- Olly Hartley made more metres in contact in a single match last season than any other player: he made a total of 49 against Newcastle Falcons in February.
- So far in the Premiership Rugby Cup, Tom Willis has made more carries than any other Premiership player (70). He has also made ten offloads in five appearances and beaten double the number of defenders of any player in the PRC (40).
You can take the man out of Yorkshire but you can't take Yorkshire out of the man.
Tom Willis has just been on another level so far. Great to see the stats back that up too. Him and Knight have been stand out in the Prem Cup, so let’s hope they continue that into the season proper.
Hopefully some big performances in store today. Loz has looked class as ever, and it’s great to see him establishing a captains role, even when Goodey is still in the team. Hartley seems to have quietly grown into the season too. A couple of shaky carries early on, but has begun to look far more assured every week.
But we shall need 1-23 to put in a strong performance as always down at Sandy.
COYS.
Hopefully some big performances in store today. Loz has looked class as ever, and it’s great to see him establishing a captains role, even when Goodey is still in the team. Hartley seems to have quietly grown into the season too. A couple of shaky carries early on, but has begun to look far more assured every week.
But we shall need 1-23 to put in a strong performance as always down at Sandy.
COYS.
still nervous about a visit to sandy park, remember it was a last breath kick that got us over the line last time, we were not walking it in any sense....
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Just sat down to watch the game and the first thing I see is the legend Andy Goode ffs. 🤡.There’s only one legend at Sandy Park today with the surname Goode and he’s playing at No 10.
Utterly outplayed in every area. It is like watching men vs boys. There is no aggression up front and no skill or tackling in the backs.
Could be a long season!
Could be a long season!
Eeek.
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
Well that was dreadful. I don’t mind losing but some of the defence has been atrocious. Hodge waltzed through 4 tacklers for his try like they weren’t there.
Quote:TommyKentish
Well that was dreadful. I don’t mind losing but some of the defence has been atrocious. Hodge waltzed through 4 tacklers for his try like they weren’t there.
What defence?
We haven’t looked good in the prem cup but this is different level. We’ve got a lot of guys out but this isn’t a bad line up. Big wake up call for some of these players.
The worst 40 minutes I can remember.
We could play for a month and not look like scoring. And as for the “defence”…
It’s hard to know which aspect of our game is worse tbh.
We could play for a month and not look like scoring. And as for the “defence”…
It’s hard to know which aspect of our game is worse tbh.
Have we turned up at Sandy Park. This is the worst game I have seen us play. It can only get better can't it.
Quote:lechef
Have we turned up at Sandy Park. This is the worst game I have seen us play. It can only get better can't it.
Nope
This is the first match of the season we've seen and frankly we CANNOT believe what we are seeing. This is utterly appalling, and probably the worst game we have ever seen us play in over 20 years of following Sarries. Even worse is we're losing by a cricket score to Exeter......embarrassing.
Davies is so so poor.
He is so slow to every ruck, and when he’s there is just stands around.
The midfield always mistime their runs off him because he dawdles so much.
Absolutely rubbish
He is so slow to every ruck, and when he’s there is just stands around.
The midfield always mistime their runs off him because he dawdles so much.
Absolutely rubbish
Quote:Not Manichean
Perhaps Chiefs have played well?
Yep. But it’s quite easy to score tries against blokes who are refusing to tackle you.
Perhaps I'm clutching at straws, but there is a small possibility of a try bonus point still. I would take that considering this abysmal performance.
Chiefs sensational in attack. Sarries abysmal in defence.
Not much to be said. How we react next week will show where we are.
Not much to be said. How we react next week will show where we are.
Reminds me of a game at the Stoop when we had conceded 4 tries to Quins before halftime and Quins were nothing special.
There was a serious lack of effort at times as well as a lack of skill. For example, Alex L. was overtaken by the Exeter player for the touch down because he was taking it easy until he was overtaken!
There are no positives from today’s game except that we will get a lot better.
There was a serious lack of effort at times as well as a lack of skill. For example, Alex L. was overtaken by the Exeter player for the touch down because he was taking it easy until he was overtaken!
There are no positives from today’s game except that we will get a lot better.
Quote:Not Manichean
Perhaps Chiefs have played well?
They did Mani
They have been incredible but after a loss like this I think it's inevitable that Sarries supporters will despair of our performance rather than be delighted Chiefs played so well. Never-the-less, Chapeau, and good luck for the rest of the season.
Another worrying looking injury for RAH, it's concerning for him at this point
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:Not Manichean
Perhaps Chiefs have played well?
They did Mani
They have been incredible but after a loss like this I think it's inevitable that Sarries supporters will despair of our performance rather than be delighted Chiefs played so well. Never-the-less, Chapeau, and good luck for the rest of the season.
Cheers Ruck.
You too. I need watch a replay without the emotion. Sarries were below par and will put that behind them very quickly.
But I am enthused by Ex performance.
Shell shocked. I don't think anyone played well. Our best performer was maybe... Andy? But we had a complete lack of tempo at 9 and 10. It's easy to blame it all on Aled, who played incredibly poorly, but Goodey took every ball standing still. We looked far sharper with Bracken, but doubt we will see him put in the deep end next week. I can't say a different 9 and 10 would've changed the result, but certainly it would've helped our attitude, which was lacking from the off.
Quote:MonaghanBoy
Shell shocked. I don't think anyone played well. Our best performer was maybe... Andy?
Our best performer was Henry Slade off the tee. All his missed conversions were very gettable. Should have been more.
looks like my foreboading was unfortunately justified, will make sure i have a large drink before the replay... as most what bothers me is the pride we have that we always send a competitive team even with internationals away, looks like the boys let themselves down today.... at least this is not a cruitual juncture of the season
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
I feel sorry for anyone who drove down to Exeter to watch that. I couldn’t face the 2nd half, took the dog out. Maybe will watch it late tonight after a few drinks , poorest performance since that bad one v Wasps, they must have been watching Italy in the World Cup. Weekend still has horrors in store, have to watch England tomorrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:17:22:00 by maynas.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:17:22:00 by maynas.
For the sake of my Telly, marriage, and relationship with my son i walked out after the first half
Quote:Sarriebone
Our Away record continues, no away wins in over 10 months...
Without "chicken-littleing" that performance I do think it's time for the club to reconsider how we play in away fixtures.
Previously the logic was maybe sounder but on a day like today, great weather for running rugby is giving the opposition endless possession in time and space really the way to go? We fielded (IMO) such an exciting team then played without the ball?? I understand the idea of kicking the ball long and having a defensive line set if the opposition return the ball but against, as Chiefs showed today, a team happy to counter-attack and keep the ball alive it invites attacking players into the game and linebreaks in that situation really hurt.
Chiefs played how I had hoped (but not expected) we would. Tempo and keeping the ball in hand. They also looked like a team (as I said before the game) whereas Sarries didn't. Sarries played like I hoped we wouldn't (but expected we would) but even so I didn't expect anything close to that annihilation.
I said to my friend when Goode kicked it down Hodges throat with minutes gone "we're going to chuck this away aren't we" well it was much more Chiefs took it away but it was infuriating to see the same stupid behaviour repeated over and over as Chiefs racked up the points.
Tbh it was so awful right across the board I'm at a loss to understand it. From tactics, to execution to commitment. If this were any other team I'd say that was a coaching team that had lost the dressing room such was the seemingly indifference with which the team played.
I fully expect this is a one-off and can't see Sarries playing that poorly again (ever??) but some serious questions need to be asked from McCall down about that performance.
(edit) also had Manu played like Goode did there would be numerous calls on here for him to be dropped and a better option sought.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:18:30:08 by OldMarovian.
Quote:Sarriebone
Another worrying looking injury for RAH, it's concerning for him at this point
That didn't look good. Hope he's not out for too long.
Quote:Other than the awful pass straight to Slade he was no worse than the rest.MarkCol7
Parton with one of the worst Prem debut performances of all time
Roti’s decision making when he has made a break is looking a big issue for me, although the lack of support didn’t help.
Would like to see the Loz yellow card and the disallowed try again, both appeared very harsh
Agreed. Both this week and last, Goodey looked ponderous, and no better than Manu has in the Prem Cup. Didn’t think Parton was any worse than the rest.
Likewise, Bard, I’m growing concerned about rotis decision making. For every incredible thing he does, it seems to be followed by an error, either defensively or attacking. I sort of feel it’s now or never for him this season, as he’ll be 28 by December.
Likewise, Bard, I’m growing concerned about rotis decision making. For every incredible thing he does, it seems to be followed by an error, either defensively or attacking. I sort of feel it’s now or never for him this season, as he’ll be 28 by December.
The Loz yellow was fair. Disallowed try was harsh imo, Andy was through the gap and gone
Bath with a good performance against Falcons. I'd rather not endure an 60+ point shellacking for the first proper Premiership game of the season at the StoneX so sharpen up boys!
Ninjafez spot on re pride. Losing is not an issue. The manner in which Sarries did is a concern.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:18:51:07 by OldMarovian.
Ninjafez spot on re pride. Losing is not an issue. The manner in which Sarries did is a concern.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:14:18:51:07 by OldMarovian.
Quote:OldMarovian
(edit) also had Manu played like Goode did there would be numerous calls on here for him to be dropped and a better option sought.
Sad thing is- Goode is still the better option (and played like a drain).
At some point surely we need to start thinking of the succession plan at 10.
Baxter had Ex ready to go. Saracens looked like they have another month before it starts. Surprising to see a couple in just after the RWC - maybe too jaded. 9 could be an issue for Saracens this year
Well played Chiefs. All I can say about Sarries is...I think an apology to the fans is in order for that performance. Doubt we’ll get one but I would like someone to acknowledge that was just not good enough. I am sure they will move on and improve and this is only the first game of the Prem, but I was appalled by the lack of spirit and energy.
Chiefs supporter in peace ...
An uncharacteristic and unexpected performance from Sarries. No one down here called it, in fact we were pretty much 50/50 on who would win. Having had a tough day in the office, I was truly impressed by your guys lapping the ground, applauding the fans, and taking our applaud too. That must have been tough. I wish I could say Chiefs players did something similar...
Good luck for the rest of the season.
In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.
An uncharacteristic and unexpected performance from Sarries. No one down here called it, in fact we were pretty much 50/50 on who would win. Having had a tough day in the office, I was truly impressed by your guys lapping the ground, applauding the fans, and taking our applaud too. That must have been tough. I wish I could say Chiefs players did something similar...
Good luck for the rest of the season.
In Rob we trust.
By the way - cream on first. There's nothing to debate.
Thanks for the comment DummoniiNomad.
Hopefully we can give Chiefs a more competitive game at the StoneX for the return fixture.
Enjoy the weekend
Hopefully we can give Chiefs a more competitive game at the StoneX for the return fixture.
Enjoy the weekend
I'm supposed to write up that debacle for this site, just honestly have no idea how to begin nor what to write when I do.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
Innings
Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.
So poor old Marco Riccioni last 3 games.97-10 v NZ, 60-7 v France and 65-10 yesterday. He looked shell-shocked afterwards. I’m surprised we didn’t think starting Judge or Hoskins a better idea to get his head clear.
It's tough the Bard. I can see the logic of bringing quality players like Riccioni and McFarland straight in and I'm sure that was done because the players as well as coaches wanted it but it would be fair to say one of the biggest differences was how comfortable the various teams looked with each other.
Chiefs played like a team with a bunch of games under their belts which they effectively were having gone strong through the PRC. Sarries far less so.
I honestly can't bring myself to watch the game again but what it most felt like is a team who has been coached/told to expect one way of playing and is totally lost and unable to adapt when presented with a different picture. I said above I felt so confident maybe it was a trap and in a way I think it was (fair play to Baxter and Chiefs) I rewatched the Chiefs/Bath game this morning and there were few signs that was coming. Hodge and Cairns looked sharp but the attack was one dimensional and they got back into the game through one out pick and drives and mauling.
Sarries went with the "away" plan. Kicked endless great ball away and obviously felt comfortable containing Chiefs limited game ... unfortunately when it transpired Chiefs had decided to play with bells and whistles Sarries didn't adapt by just kept providing them with ball to run back in time and space. The few times we tried keeping the ball in hand and tested Chiefs defence guess what? we scored a few trys. It's almost like there's a lesson to be learnt there ...
Chiefs played like a team with a bunch of games under their belts which they effectively were having gone strong through the PRC. Sarries far less so.
I honestly can't bring myself to watch the game again but what it most felt like is a team who has been coached/told to expect one way of playing and is totally lost and unable to adapt when presented with a different picture. I said above I felt so confident maybe it was a trap and in a way I think it was (fair play to Baxter and Chiefs) I rewatched the Chiefs/Bath game this morning and there were few signs that was coming. Hodge and Cairns looked sharp but the attack was one dimensional and they got back into the game through one out pick and drives and mauling.
Sarries went with the "away" plan. Kicked endless great ball away and obviously felt comfortable containing Chiefs limited game ... unfortunately when it transpired Chiefs had decided to play with bells and whistles Sarries didn't adapt by just kept providing them with ball to run back in time and space. The few times we tried keeping the ball in hand and tested Chiefs defence guess what? we scored a few trys. It's almost like there's a lesson to be learnt there ...
I think you make some good points OldMarovian about inflexible strategy but the most depressing aspect was how poorly we executed our limited game plan with the kicks being not the right length to compete and the quality of our first up tackling was very poor by both forwards and backs. I am struggling to remember one dominant tackle by Sarries. Very rarely I say this but I couldn’t find any positives.
I could well be wrong CoS but my feeling was the kicking wasn't to compete but to allow the attack to get sucked into a kicking battle (eventually losing out with inferior kicking, in theory) or more likely simply inviting the attack at Sarries set defensive line.
My feeling is the kicking was consistently too long for it to simply be poor execution.
Yes the defence was horrible but that's the risk you invite when you allow quick skilful players to attack with time and space.
My feeling is the kicking was consistently too long for it to simply be poor execution.
Yes the defence was horrible but that's the risk you invite when you allow quick skilful players to attack with time and space.
Any positive from this weekend is probably something we'd only see with hindsight, if we bounce back. Maybe its a kick up the backside that some people need. Maybe its an indicator of what needs to change going forward that you don't notice as much when you're winning. Maybe its just a complete aberration.
Quote:Barty II
Any positive from this weekend is probably something we'd only see with hindsight, if we bounce back. Maybe its a kick up the backside that some people need. Maybe its an indicator of what needs to change going forward that you don't notice as much when you're winning. Maybe its just a complete aberration.
My thoughts too.
The only positive to come out of yesterday is that it might have clarified some thoughts about some of the back-up / replacement guys, and that clarity didn’t happen when it was too late in a game which really mattered
Congrats to Exeter for the comprehensive win, I watched the first half and we didn't look at the races. We looked flat at the last premiership cup game even though we won that by a big margin.
I think the team will come good and I really like the look of Samson. I think we have unearthed another gem there.
I heard that Reece is coming back as a replacement for Mako. It was in the TRP, that may free up some more money depending who we resign.
I think the team will come good and I really like the look of Samson. I think we have unearthed another gem there.
I heard that Reece is coming back as a replacement for Mako. It was in the TRP, that may free up some more money depending who we resign.
I don't think anyone can read too much out of yesterday's game.
It was the first seriously taken game of the season.
Sarries had a decent starting 15, obviously could have been stronger, but a number were looking to cement their place in the 'proper' match day squad - Parton, Segun, Hartley, H-H, Knight, Willis.
Conditions were good for that particular Chiefs team, who had the perfect start.
Tactics, Uh!?, have been tried and tested, but fight looked a little lacking. I was so surprised as I have the utmost respect for Mr. 'Grumpy', and knew they had to be different in the 2nd half.
Well for a while they were. They certainly looked as if they had been given a kick up the pants!, but it didn't really last. Christie tried his hardest, but didn't get enough support.
Yes, we have enjoyed our day in the sun. We have a rich vein of youth, mainly from the Uni., who are wonderful team to watch and support, but the big physical men and heavier pitches will have their say.
. . . . . . . .and more importantly Mr 'Grumpy' has already marked the return fixture!
It was the first seriously taken game of the season.
Sarries had a decent starting 15, obviously could have been stronger, but a number were looking to cement their place in the 'proper' match day squad - Parton, Segun, Hartley, H-H, Knight, Willis.
Conditions were good for that particular Chiefs team, who had the perfect start.
Tactics, Uh!?, have been tried and tested, but fight looked a little lacking. I was so surprised as I have the utmost respect for Mr. 'Grumpy', and knew they had to be different in the 2nd half.
Well for a while they were. They certainly looked as if they had been given a kick up the pants!, but it didn't really last. Christie tried his hardest, but didn't get enough support.
Yes, we have enjoyed our day in the sun. We have a rich vein of youth, mainly from the Uni., who are wonderful team to watch and support, but the big physical men and heavier pitches will have their say.
. . . . . . . .and more importantly Mr 'Grumpy' has already marked the return fixture!
I think you can take huge positives from it Axe Chiefs.
I doubt many of your opponents over the coming season will be as generous in playing to your strengths but that should take nothing away from how good your actual teams execution was nor how exciting their play was. With such a young team and players of your own to return that bodes well for the future.
For us the cavalry is still probably at least 3 weeks off and some players will need a proper break; George for sure. Onus very much on fixing the issues with the very good players we have.
I doubt many of your opponents over the coming season will be as generous in playing to your strengths but that should take nothing away from how good your actual teams execution was nor how exciting their play was. With such a young team and players of your own to return that bodes well for the future.
For us the cavalry is still probably at least 3 weeks off and some players will need a proper break; George for sure. Onus very much on fixing the issues with the very good players we have.
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