Saracens
Bristol v Saracens: please post match related comments here
thnks to Daniel Davis
By The Saracens
October 16 2024
This week sees round 5 of the Gallagher Premiership: incredibly we will be over a quarter of the way through the season already! Last weekend’s game against Quins was a bit of a wake-up call (and best wishes to Andy – let’s hope he heals quickly and we see him back in a Sarries’ shirt before the end of the season) but I’m sure we would all have taken 16 points after 4 games before the season started. Getting rid of the “unbeaten” moniker isn’t a bad thing either. But it does mean that this Saturday sees a clash of the Premiership’s top 2 teams, Bristol Bears having claimed top spot after an entertaining win over Exeter last weekend. Bristol have also won 3 from 4 beating Falcons, Bath and Gloucester and losing narrowly at home to Gloucester. Apart from the first game up on the Tyne, they have all been high scoring with Brizz taking a try bonus point from all their 4 games. Bristol are the League’s most prolific try scorers with 21 so far (as against Sarries’ 15 – interestingly Sarries have only converted 7 of those 15: valuable points going by the board) but Bristol have also conceded a few (13 versus Sarries’ 11).
When it comes to penalties the stats are fascinating. In 4 matches, Bristol have scored just 6 points from penalty kicks (sounds a bit like Exeter of a few years back) whereas Sarries have scored 30. Bristol have also conceded a huge number of penalties: 51 as opposed to Sarries’ 31. They will be a very different sort of opposition to Quins. This season Bristol’s karma would seem to be “score as many tries as you like, we’ll score more!” So if nothing else we should be in for an entertaining game. We do need to capitalise on their extravagance on the penalty side though – hopefully Loz has been practising his kicks extra hard this week!
Encouragingly our scrum stats are much improved: 96% of scrums won – a huge improvement on last season and something we can capitalise on. Brizz boast the league’s top try scorer in the late lamented Max Malins (one who really shouldn’t have got away).
I don’t anticipate many changes to the team that lost to Quins, that really isn’t Sarries’ way. Obviously Andy Christie won’t be around for a while and I suspect Gonzalez may not be fit for this weekend but hopefully McFarland will be back. I hope young Bracken gets another shot as he looks decidedly useful. I would like to see Daly back at fullback - Goodey did nothing wrong but Daly just looks a more fruitful option. It Segun isn’t fit we might see Parton back or maybe give young Brandon Jackson a go.
So my team (for what little it’s worth) : Carre, George, Riccioni, Itoje, Tizard, Isiekwe, Earl, Willis, Van Zyl, Burke, Elliot, Tompkins, Lozowski, Segun/Parton, Daly
When it comes to officials we still seem to be in the dog house: this time in the form of Anthony Woodthorpe, assisted by Jack Makepeace and Gareth Holsgrove with TMO David Rose so good luck with that then!
It sounds like a potential tryfest: the team which scores the most (or maybe the team which kicks their goals) is likely to come out on top. A tough ask but fingers crossed, Sarries can do this
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StumbleuponBristol v Saracens: please post match related comments here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 16/10/2024 20:44
TheSaracens.com
16/10/2024 20:44
16/10/2024 20:44
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:30:08:44:14 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:30:08:44:14 by Darraghgirl.
‘ Bristol have also won 3 from 4 beating Falcons, Bath and Gloucester and losing narrowly at home to Gloucester’ ??
Cinti on the wing?
Cinti on the wing?
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Mawi start as Carre unsurprisingly was looking knackered on Sunday
Saracens Men team to play Bristol Bears:
1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Alex Goode
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Josh Hallett
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Jamie George
17 Phil Brantingham
18 Alec Clarey
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Nick Tompkins
23 Brandon Jackson
1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Toby Knight
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Alex Goode
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Josh Hallett
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Jamie George
17 Phil Brantingham
18 Alec Clarey
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Nick Tompkins
23 Brandon Jackson
The opposition
Bristol Bears team to face Saracens at Ashton Gate on Saturday (3.05pm KO, live on TNT Sports):
15. Rich Lane (39 apps)
14. Toby Fricker (32 apps)
13. Jack Bates (37 apps)
12. Joe Jenkins (15 apps)
11. Gabriel Ibitoye (45 apps)
10. AJ MacGinty (41 apps)
9. Harry Randall (129 apps)
1. Ellis Genge (48 apps)
2. Gabriel Oghre (22 apps)
3. Max Lahiff (91 apps)
4. Josh Caulfield (27 apps)
5. Joe Batley (67 apps)
6. James Dun (37 apps)
7. Santiago Grondona (2 app)
8. Fitz Harding (c) (76 apps).
System players: 16. Harry Thacker (115 apps), 17. Jake Woolmore (153 apps), 18. George Kloska (46 apps), 19. Joe Owen (15 apps), 20. Benjamin Grondona (5 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (28 apps), 22. Sam Worsley (7 apps), 23. Benjamin Elizalde (1 app).
Bristol Bears team to face Saracens at Ashton Gate on Saturday (3.05pm KO, live on TNT Sports):
15. Rich Lane (39 apps)
14. Toby Fricker (32 apps)
13. Jack Bates (37 apps)
12. Joe Jenkins (15 apps)
11. Gabriel Ibitoye (45 apps)
10. AJ MacGinty (41 apps)
9. Harry Randall (129 apps)
1. Ellis Genge (48 apps)
2. Gabriel Oghre (22 apps)
3. Max Lahiff (91 apps)
4. Josh Caulfield (27 apps)
5. Joe Batley (67 apps)
6. James Dun (37 apps)
7. Santiago Grondona (2 app)
8. Fitz Harding (c) (76 apps).
System players: 16. Harry Thacker (115 apps), 17. Jake Woolmore (153 apps), 18. George Kloska (46 apps), 19. Joe Owen (15 apps), 20. Benjamin Grondona (5 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (28 apps), 22. Sam Worsley (7 apps), 23. Benjamin Elizalde (1 app).
How many Grondonas do they need? A few surprising absentees from our side to say the least…
We always seem to concede lots of points when Hallet is on the pitch. Hoping he proves me wrong
its the subby flyhalf show....
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
Very disappointed that Louie isn't getting his chance if Fergus is unfit
Surely this is the time to let him show what he can do with Goodey on the bench in case!
Surely this is the time to let him show what he can do with Goodey on the bench in case!
Quote:Darraghgirl
Very disappointed that Louie isn't getting his chance if Fergus is unfit
Surely this is the time to let him show what he can do with Goodey on the bench in case!
Agree DarraghGirl, this was the perfect opportunity to play Louie - the team looks good until I saw Goodie at 10. Glad Josh is starting at 12, Roti back, Daly at FB and Brandon on the bench. A full back row out with injury, but still pretty strong. Mitch on bench is good cover. Let’s hope JMG and Ben ok for Tigers next week.
Gonna be hard to win with Goodie at 10, gone are the days when he can just turn up and seemlessly slot in at FH, sorry.
Strangelove,
Ben Earl should be away with England for the game against Tigers
Ben Earl should be away with England for the game against Tigers
Quote:Darraghgirl
Very disappointed that Louie isn't getting his chance if Fergus is unfit
Surely this is the time to let him show what he can do with Goodey on the bench in case!
He's a good prospect, but he's only played a total of 8 ECC / Prem matches, starting 4 of those (for the worst side in England), so it makes sense away from home to go with Goode who brings greater experience and quality.
We put our faith in Faz when he was only 18! If you're good enough you're old enough
Lots of youth in both sides and plenty of big players missing.
This is the unavailable list for Bristol:
Unavailable: Steele Barker, George Taylor, Steven Luatua, Viliame Mata, James Williams, Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Kalaveti Ravouvou, Noah Heward, Siva Naulago, Max Malins.
All 3 first team centres are out, one of which is also the senior fly half cover. Luatua and Mata missing from the back row and really stretched in the back 3 missing Malins, Naulago and Heward.
This is the unavailable list for Bristol:
Unavailable: Steele Barker, George Taylor, Steven Luatua, Viliame Mata, James Williams, Benhard Janse van Rensburg, Kalaveti Ravouvou, Noah Heward, Siva Naulago, Max Malins.
All 3 first team centres are out, one of which is also the senior fly half cover. Luatua and Mata missing from the back row and really stretched in the back 3 missing Malins, Naulago and Heward.
Still though, Bristol at home right now have the same air of us at home in the last few seasons 'you have to score at least 40 points to beat them'. If I squint hard enough I could see our side doing that but I'm not confident.
Quote:dirtybertie
Some of these changes were not down to the club....
According to a podcast I listened to this week no Enhanced EPS contracts have been signed by the players yet?
Quote:tigersimon
Strangelove,
Ben Earl should be away with England for the game against Tigers
@#$%&
Quote:dirtybertie
Some of these changes were not down to the club....
Apart from Earl who would they have control over who’s not playing?
Quote:Darraghgirl
Very disappointed that Louie isn't getting his chance if Fergus is unfit
Surely this is the time to let him show what he can do with Goodey on the bench in case!
Had a bicep operation
Quote:tpr's headmistress
Wasn't it JMG who had a bicep problem?
As did Louie, its been reattatched this week.
Injured
Spink (due back soon), Hartley, Balmain, Christie, JMG, Johnson, Burke, Earl
?
Cinti, Mawi, Parton
Spink (due back soon), Hartley, Balmain, Christie, JMG, Johnson, Burke, Earl
?
Cinti, Mawi, Parton
OK, that’s good to know, but it might help if the club stated who was unavailable each week due to injury as some other clubs do - might stop us speculating/questioning why they have picked certain players in certain positions.
Strangelove,
Frustrates me enormously that Tigers don’t do it! Stops rumours, with Social Media the truth comes out eventually.
The speculation about Johnson wasn’t needed after the team announcement yesterday!
Frustrates me enormously that Tigers don’t do it! Stops rumours, with Social Media the truth comes out eventually.
The speculation about Johnson wasn’t needed after the team announcement yesterday!
So much for players being penalised for being on the floor before they tackle.
I was pleased to hear the TMO confirm we’re not playing forward passes today.
Quote:#wolfpack1
I was pleased to hear the TMO confirm we’re not playing forward passes today.
Should make the game a bit easier!
Van Zyl is so slow to the breakdown and his box kicking has been very poor
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
I think it’s a week on the tackle bags for us this week.
Aim for a try bonus point
Aim for a try bonus point
Quote:Toga
Playing the ball in ruck off the floor is ok as well.
Referee been awful
Quote:MarkCol7
Van Zyl is so slow to the breakdown and his box kicking has been very poor
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
IVZ is simply not good enough. Read other club forums, they regard him as one of the worst 9s in the league.
If we are refereeing players intentions then Genge should be red carded for his thoughts I suspect.
Batley must be wondering what he did wrong there, jumping over the ruck and playing the ball with his hands was fine the last time he did it.
Quote:#wolfpack1Quote:Toga
Playing the ball in ruck off the floor is ok as well.
Referee been awful
Although that’s a great call from the ref re Loz. TMO desperate for his 2 minutes. I’m pleased the ref disagreed and ignored him
Offloads forward are ok as are passes.
Bristol are fun to watch when the ref allows it all to go.
Bristol are fun to watch when the ref allows it all to go.
We cannot seem to lay a hand on Ibitoye! Giving away too many penalties. Bristol are rampant with a great performance from Randall.
TNT had all but given MoM to Ibitoye (who deserved it). Journalists frantically rewriting their copy. That is the real Saracens back in the hood.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Quote:nedrichards
Still though, Bristol at home right now have the same air of us at home in the last few seasons 'you have to score at least 40 points to beat them'. If I squint hard enough I could see our side doing that but I'm not confident.
37 is close enough - insane defence to hold them to under 60 frankly. That was an extremely enjoyable and stressful game to watch. I was happy enough when we were losing by 8 that we might sneak a 4 try BP given the effort required. I did enjoy being proved correct in a privately message prediction that 'Warburton will really like Brantingham in the Jackal' based entirely on watching the Scarlets pre-season game. Great work from the whole squad and 'thank you Ampthill'.
From the russ petty stats-o-meter: [x.com]
Maybe I should've said 35.
Quote:Home team scoring 35 points or more and losing - happened 18 times in the league from 1987-88 to 2023-24, then in 3/5 Bristol matches this season
41-44 v Gloucester
35-40 at Exeter
35-37 v Saracens
Maybe I should've said 35.
Both of our four legged friends are still very confused by the shouting and harrumphing coming from the TV room (our house is normally pretty quiet and calm) - they thought there was something very wrong but no, it was the Sarries team that were, for most of the match, making our blood boil. Is it optional to complete first up tackles now? Mind you, they showed tremendous strength of mind to overcome and win. As ever, we shouldn't doubt them, although I came fairly close to finding something else to do with my afternoon.
For the first 45 minutes I thought we were going to be on the end of a drubbing as although Bristol did put some great moves together our tackling was also pretty woeful at times. Then the urgency returned and we started tackling harder and competing more at the breakdown and the game started to swing in our direction. Alex L did brilliantly with his place kicking and I thought Eliot Daly had a great game being at the centre of so much that was positive. A fair few players put in a decent shift up front and it was one of those rare games where both teams deserved to win and obviously with Alex L kicking the penalty at the death there was real excitement for all.
I think we possibly played our scrum halves the wrong way round as I think IVZ suits a more structured closing out type of game rather than the frenetic stuff that was on show in the 1st half. I would be interested in others comments on Alex G and Josh as neither particularly stood out for me in either a positive or negative way.
I think we possibly played our scrum halves the wrong way round as I think IVZ suits a more structured closing out type of game rather than the frenetic stuff that was on show in the 1st half. I would be interested in others comments on Alex G and Josh as neither particularly stood out for me in either a positive or negative way.
Briz often remind me of Kevin Keegan's coaching days in the roundball code.
He famously said that he didn't care how many the oppo scored so long as his side scored more.
He never won anything either.
He famously said that he didn't care how many the oppo scored so long as his side scored more.
He never won anything either.
Well played lads, thought it might somehow be on as you can never count Bristol out from snatching defeat from victory. Well done Loz, Daly, Big Tiz, Rhys, Big Tom, Big Nick, Brandon and Simpson when they came on. Agree that we should start Simpson, Ivan needs some confidence and could do with coming off the bench.
Loz did well when he played 10 and fair play to ref for getting the alleged no arms tackle spot on…even if he did miss a blatant forward pass for a Bears try. Lovely to see Andy OC there getting involved and the lads clapping him in the stands. Well played Randall and Harding, I thought you were unlucky to be on losing side. And with the women winning too, a great double!
Loz did well when he played 10 and fair play to ref for getting the alleged no arms tackle spot on…even if he did miss a blatant forward pass for a Bears try. Lovely to see Andy OC there getting involved and the lads clapping him in the stands. Well played Randall and Harding, I thought you were unlucky to be on losing side. And with the women winning too, a great double!
Well played Saracens, can't argue the result (you'd probably say same if we had hung on) - think that was a game befitting a top of table clash. Best of luck except against us of course. Hopefully I can make the return fixture.
Oh, don't know if he's a regular here but someone might want to have a word with a fan of yours called Toga for his behaviour on our Bristol forum.
Oh, don't know if he's a regular here but someone might want to have a word with a fan of yours called Toga for his behaviour on our Bristol forum.
Quote:TogaQuote:MarkCol7
Van Zyl is so slow to the breakdown and his box kicking has been very poor
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
IVZ is simply not good enough. Read other club forums, they regard him as one of the worst 9s in the league.
Who cares what other fans think? He’s been great since establishing himself as first choice, was players player of the season a few years back and crucial in that season for us winning the title. A couple of bad matches doesn’t change that.
Quote:Sarsen
Briz often remind me of Kevin Keegan's coaching days in the roundball code.
He famously said that he didn't care how many the oppo scored so long as his side scored more.
He never won anything either.
Rugby values, not sure Saracens have won anything whilst complying with the rules
Phenomenal defending last 15 minutes. Set piece good again. Daly generally superb. But some awful defending at times.
Agreed Bard, when we started to get to the breakdown and slowed them down, we looked like a different team in the second half. We gifted them too many penalties as well in the first half. Tom W is brilliant and hopefully this gives us some momentum and their winger is brilliant. He played against us a few years ago for Tel Aviv at the Stone X in a friendly. I'm surprised we didn't look at him.
Quote:TommyKentishQuote:TogaQuote:MarkCol7
Van Zyl is so slow to the breakdown and his box kicking has been very poor
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
IVZ is simply not good enough. Read other club forums, they regard him as one of the worst 9s in the league.
Who cares what other fans think? He’s been great since establishing himself as first choice, was players player of the
season a few years back and crucial in that season for us winning the title. A couple of bad matches doesn’t change that.
Agree, he's performed for us in past. I think maybe the increased responsibility of stand in captain and helping Fergus when he is playing has got to him a little and denting his confidence
Quote:TommyKentishQuote:TogaQuote:MarkCol7
Van Zyl is so slow to the breakdown and his box kicking has been very poor
Looks a world apart from Randall who’s had a storming half
IVZ is simply not good enough. Read other club forums, they regard him as one of the worst 9s in the league.
Who cares what other fans think? He’s been great since establishing himself as first choice, was players player of the season a few years back and crucial in that season for us winning the title. A couple of bad matches doesn’t change that.
It's interesting to see where other fans see the main threats in the Saracens team. It's no more than we do with their teams. IVZ isn't highly rated by them - they might be wrong of course but the wisdom of crowds and all that...
Personally, I do like IVZ but he loses concentration too often to be classed in the top grade. He actually reminds me of Danny Care in that respect.
He’s taking on too much in Faz’s absence in my opinion.
He needs to concentrate on getting the ball away from the breakdown quicker. Leave the leadership to Maro, Jamie etc, and leave game control to Daly.
Another word for our scrum today which really has sorted itself out this season. Big Rhys has been a superb (re)addition
He needs to concentrate on getting the ball away from the breakdown quicker. Leave the leadership to Maro, Jamie etc, and leave game control to Daly.
Another word for our scrum today which really has sorted itself out this season. Big Rhys has been a superb (re)addition
siNBin: That's an old school stat as well that comes from a blitz type defence/attack. The number of times people have said 'faz missed a lot of tackles' when, yes, potentially, but did that person get hit behind the gain line or, did they get moved into a lane they could be controlled.
Today was quite different to that! Just amazing scramble defence! To take a quote from Mark:
Today was quite different to that! Just amazing scramble defence! To take a quote from Mark:
Quote:"Their attack is superb. It is unique in world rugby. No one is attacking the way they are attacking, and they make you feel bad a lot because their line-breaks are 30-40 metres, and somehow we found a way to get back and fight and somehow won the match."
Quote:#wolfpack1
He’s taking on too much in Faz’s absence in my opinion.
He needs to concentrate on getting the ball away from the breakdown quicker. Leave the leadership to Maro, Jamie etc, and leave game control to Daly.
Another word for our scrum today which really has sorted itself out this season. Big Rhys has been a superb (re)addition
He is one of the leaders in the group and taken more responsibility’s this year and is one of the louder voices at training. A proper player
Quote:#wolfpack1
He’s taking on too much in Faz’s absence in my opinion.
He needs to concentrate on getting the ball away from the breakdown quicker. Leave the leadership to Maro, Jamie etc, and leave game control to Daly.
Another word for our scrum today which really has sorted itself out this season. Big Rhys has been a superb (re)addition
Good point WP, he’s definitely taken more on but I think we can give him some time to adapt and grow into the role. Glad we saw more of Simpson though, great to have another option to keep the pace up.
Good point on Rhys and he’s not getting the recognition from refs at the moment for pasting the opposition tightheads. A real talent that boy, Wales’ loss is our gain!
Quote:KingoftheHillQuote:Sarsen
Briz often remind me of Kevin Keegan's coaching days in the roundball code.
He famously said that he didn't care how many the oppo scored so long as his side scored more.
He never won anything either.
Rugby values, not sure Saracens have won anything whilst complying with the rules
Missed the 23 final then did you?
Quote:dirtybertieQuote:#wolfpack1
He’s taking on too much in Faz’s absence in my opinion.
He needs to concentrate on getting the ball away from the breakdown quicker. Leave the leadership to Maro, Jamie etc, and leave game control to Daly.
Another word for our scrum today which really has sorted itself out this season. Big Rhys has been a superb (re)addition
He is one of the leaders in the group and taken more responsibility’s this year and is one of the louder voices at training. A proper player
He is a very good player; but it seems to me this season he’s playing less on instinct than before. Previously he had Farrell barking at him telling him what to do and now he doesn’t, which might be part of it. Either way he is struggling with his tempo a little in my opinion. The Quins game was very poor, today was much better.
I think he is a seriously underrated scrum half and I am surprised at the lack of admiration he gets from other clubs, but I would like to see him speed up the game after breaks and half breaks, rather than slow it down - which has been a habit so far this season.
Maybe because he is still building an understanding with Burke? That’s got to take a while, plus he’s very different to Faz, likes to take the ball deeper because he’s more of a running threat whereas Faz would take it right to the line and 99% of the time look to put someone else in a gap. Also, either Burke needs to either grab the bull by the horns and direct more or be allowed to by the coaches, Of course it’s incredibly early days and I’m not criticising him but eventually that’s where he needs to get to and I’m sure he will given enough time.
I was surprised to hear the boos and jeers from the Bristol fans at the end as Loz was lining up for the winning kick. Did I miss something?
I've always enjoyed trips to Bristol and thought their fans were better than that.
I've always enjoyed trips to Bristol and thought their fans were better than that.
Quote:saracen1971Quote:KingoftheHillQuote:Sarsen
Briz often remind me of Kevin Keegan's coaching days in the roundball code.
He famously said that he didn't care how many the oppo scored so long as his side scored more.
He never won anything either.
Rugby values, not sure Saracens have won anything whilst complying with the rules
Missed the 23 final then did you?
Your mate missed the 2020 final did he?
Unable to watch live, so just caught up. Stay in it, till you win it! COYS
Quote:Harrow Sarrie
I was surprised to hear the boos and jeers from the Bristol fans at the end as Loz was lining up for the winning kick. Did I miss something?
I've always enjoyed trips to Bristol and thought their fans were better than that.
Many fans thought Loz should not have been on the pitch due to his tackle on Bris hooker shortly before
PS. I’m not condemning or condoning it, just explaining what you missed
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:20:14:55:53 by Hercules Spoons.
I've uploaded a gif of the Loz tackle. He's clearly trying to wrap with his right arm which is blocked by Oghre's left arm. Oghre's head is lower than his own knees. Loz is low enough to win a limbo competition.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:20:15:01:23 by Toga.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:20:15:01:23 by Toga.
Oghre went into the tackle deliberately head first seemingly to draw a card for Loz who did well to lower his height in response.
As far as I know it is not against the Laws to do what Oghre did, but it should be - both dangerous to himself as well as to Loz, and ungentlemanly conduct.
But so many attackers do it now since the focus on red carding defenders for head contact. It needs to be stamped out.
As far as I know it is not against the Laws to do what Oghre did, but it should be - both dangerous to himself as well as to Loz, and ungentlemanly conduct.
But so many attackers do it now since the focus on red carding defenders for head contact. It needs to be stamped out.
Unfortunate last sentence, Alan!
Otherwise I agree.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
Otherwise I agree.
Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade
🌻🌻🌻
I was pretty critical of the ref throughout, but it was very very refreshing to see a referee refuse the desperate pleas of his TMO for a card. Absoluty nothing Loz could do and the right decision was reached.
On a separate but related point - is it right that Goodey should have been carded for a deliberate knock on? If he had prevented a scoring opportunity, then yes a yellow is right … but he didn’t, because they went and scored. I’ve never seen someone carded for trying but failing to cynically break up play. Thoughts?
On a separate but related point - is it right that Goodey should have been carded for a deliberate knock on? If he had prevented a scoring opportunity, then yes a yellow is right … but he didn’t, because they went and scored. I’ve never seen someone carded for trying but failing to cynically break up play. Thoughts?
Absolutely right that Goodey was yellow carded for a cynical act of foul play even though a try was scored. Equally Ibitoye should have been red carded (second yellow) for the cynical act of diving over the ruck and knocking the ball out whilst off his feet. I don't blame the crowd for booing. Most of them clearly don't know the laws of the game and Loz was very used to that when in France. Even more surprising was that a professional rugby player (Ibitoye) seems to have had no idea what he'd done wrong. In my view law 15.11 applies.
On the Goodey yellow, should that have been a pen from kick off? I seem to remember we played Tigers at home and one of their players got a yellow for foul play on our winger (which should get called more often really, a lot of cheap shots seem to go unpunished in similar circumstances) and we then score the pen from the half way line.
Only applies in the act of scoring a try. We’ve been the beneficiary a couple of times for that.
Quote:AP
Unfortunate last sentence, Alan!
Otherwise I agree.
. Good catch, AP, but I'll stick with it.
Utter madness from Oghre. He didn't need to dip like that before contact. His action not only endangered himself but Loz as well - something needs to be done as it's happening more frequently. An alternative which we saw plenty of is to spin out of contact which on occasions can be pretty effective. I'm glad neither player was injured.
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.
I'm begging her for one more try!
Quote:Sarakene
Absolutely right that Goodey was yellow carded for a cynical act of foul play even though a try was scored.
Even though a try was scored?
I’m not complaining particularly, just interested.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone yellow carded for an attempted cynical action which fails to prevent a try. Usually the try wipes the slate - eg a collapsed maul that is steaming towards the line : if the attacking team subsequently scores, the referee doesn’t usually go back to see who collapsed the maul to give a yellow card.
Quote:Happy Sarrie
Utter madness from Oghre. He didn't need to dip like that before contact. His action not only endangered himself but Loz as well - something needs to be done as it's happening more frequently. An alternative which we saw plenty of is to spin out of contact which on occasions can be pretty effective. I'm glad neither player was injured.
I wouldn’t say this is madness or the like. It’s a rugby incident that’s all, neither good or bad. They happen in matches, and no fault to either Oghre or Loz. The suggestion that Oghre (or anyone) try to deliberately get shouldered in the head by another poster is crazy too.
Quote:#wolfpack1
Even though a try was scored?
I’m not complaining particularly, just interested.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone yellow carded for an attempted cynical action which fails to prevent a try. Usually the try wipes the slate - eg a collapsed maul that is steaming towards the line : if the attacking team subsequently scores, the referee doesn’t usually go back to see who collapsed the maul to give a yellow card.
To your question, it’s mandatory to produce a yellow card if a penalty try is awarded (I’m aware Goode’s intervention wasn’t a PT).
Quote:Dolph42Quote:#wolfpack1
Even though a try was scored?
I’m not complaining particularly, just interested.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone yellow carded for an attempted cynical action which fails to prevent a try. Usually the try wipes the slate - eg a collapsed maul that is steaming towards the line : if the attacking team subsequently scores, the referee doesn’t usually go back to see who collapsed the maul to give a yellow card.
To your question, it’s mandatory to produce a yellow card if a penalty try is awarded (I’m aware Goode’s intervention wasn’t a PT).
I meant in circumstances where there is no penalty try.
It happens fairly frequently where a maul is collapsed, or scrum penalties are won, or an offside given (with a team on a warning) which would result in a yellow card if the game is stopped - but the attacking team scores from the advantage and the offence is scrubbed. I’m not sure why that didn’t happen this time.
Just imagine if they’d missed the conversion and the TMO video showed a penalty try could have been awarded. Could the officials upgrade it to a 7 point score rather than 5?
Quote:Interesting viewpoint there, hadn't considered that.The Bard
Just imagine if they’d missed the conversion and the TMO video showed a penalty try could have been awarded. Could the officials upgrade it to a 7 point score rather than 5?
In the build up to the last Bristol try (scored by Fricker), Batley did this which 20 seconds later led to the Fricker try...
Referee is standing right next to the ruck looking at this isn't he.
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
That ball is not out of the ruck - Batley was doing this the whole match as well. He got pinged just once for it. Luckily for us, Ibitoye got seen doing it as well at the end.
Referee is standing right next to the ruck looking at this isn't he.
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
That ball is not out of the ruck - Batley was doing this the whole match as well. He got pinged just once for it. Luckily for us, Ibitoye got seen doing it as well at the end.
If you know that it’ll be a yellow card if you don’t score and won’t be if you do, could that disincentivise the attacking team from trying to score?
Quote:Toga
In the build up to the last Bristol try (scored by Fricker), Batley did this which 20 seconds later led to the Fricker try...
Referee is standing right next to the ruck looking at this isn't he.
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
That ball is not out of the ruck - Batley was doing this the whole match as well. He got pinged just once for it. Luckily for us, Ibitoye got seen doing it as well at the end.
You really have an issue with Bristol don't you . . . lets ignore the numerous Saracens infringements and concentrate on this. Bately is onside and part of the ruck, the ball is out of the ruck (give the benefit of the doubt that its not a knock on) and he is entitled to pick it up. He only goes to ground when 7 comes in to tackle him (arguably early so penalty to Bristol)
Does that help?
Quote:
You really have an issue with Bristol don't you . . . lets ignore the numerous Saracens infringements and concentrate on this. Bately is onside and part of the ruck, the ball is out of the ruck (give the benefit of the doubt that its not a knock on) and he is entitled to pick it up. He only goes to ground when 7 comes in to tackle him (arguably early so penalty to Bristol)
Does that help?
I'll just cut & paste the bit you didn't read...
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
No, I don't have an issue with Bristol. I tend to have an issue with people who call Saracens cheats.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:22:09:45:02 by Toga.
Quote:TogaQuote:
You really have an issue with Bristol don't you . . . lets ignore the numerous Saracens infringements and concentrate on this. Bately is onside and part of the ruck, the ball is out of the ruck (give the benefit of the doubt that its not a knock on) and he is entitled to pick it up. He only goes to ground when 7 comes in to tackle him (arguably early so penalty to Bristol)
Does that help?
I'll just cut & paste the bit you didn't read...
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
No, I don't have an issue with Bristol. I tend to have an issue with people who call Saracens cheats.
Funny that, I have an issue with people who call Bristol cheats, which you have done on multiple occasions both here and on our forum. Lets put this one down as a rugby incident shall we . . . and I will not dig out the various clips of Saracens infringments starting with the obvious one of Goodes restarts from 1 m inside our half . . .
I don’t think it’s helpful to microscope every ruck, where there are potentially a number of infringements taking place by both sides.
For the record I think Batley is on his feet when he collects the ball and comes from an onside position. He definitely doesn’t dive on it.
For the record I think Batley is on his feet when he collects the ball and comes from an onside position. He definitely doesn’t dive on it.
Quote:KingoftheHillQuote:TogaQuote:
You really have an issue with Bristol don't you . . . lets ignore the numerous Saracens infringements and concentrate on this. Bately is onside and part of the ruck, the ball is out of the ruck (give the benefit of the doubt that its not a knock on) and he is entitled to pick it up. He only goes to ground when 7 comes in to tackle him (arguably early so penalty to Bristol)
Does that help?
I'll just cut & paste the bit you didn't read...
It didn't look right at the time, he's not supporting his own weight, he goes straight off his feet but even if all that is missed then there is this... [www.world.rugby]
If the ball has left the ruck, then the ruck is over, and the ball is out. Providing a player comes from an onside position and does not dive onto the ball if it is within 1m of the ruck, they may play the ball.
No, I don't have an issue with Bristol. I tend to have an issue with people who call Saracens cheats.
Funny that, I have an issue with people who call Bristol cheats, which you have done on multiple occasions both here and on our forum. Lets put this one down as a rugby incident shall we . . . and I will not dig out the various clips of Saracens infringments starting with the obvious one of Goodes restarts from 1 m inside our half . . .
I haven't called Bristol cheats on this forum or any any other one. Don't tell fibs, it makes you look nearly as stupid as somebody who would regard kicking a restart from just inside the opposition half as cheating.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:10:22:11:26:15 by Toga.
Quote:Dolph42
I don’t think it’s helpful to microscope every ruck, where there are potentially a number of infringements taking place by both sides.
For the record I think Batley is on his feet when he collects the ball and comes from an onside position. He definitely doesn’t dive on it.
The ball is still within 1m of the ruck. Which means you specifically can't do what Batley does. See earlier link.
I don't make the Laws! 😉
Quote:TogaQuote:Dolph42
I don’t think it’s helpful to microscope every ruck, where there are potentially a number of infringements taking place by both sides.
For the record I think Batley is on his feet when he collects the ball and comes from an onside position. He definitely doesn’t dive on it.
The ball is still within 1m of the ruck. Which means you specifically can't do what Batley does. See earlier link.
I don't make the Laws! 😉
Let me correct that for you . . . 'I don't understand the Laws!' . . . there you go!
Quote:Toga
The ball is still within 1m of the ruck. Which means you specifically can't do what Batley does. See earlier link.
I don't make the Laws! 😉
Yes but he didn’t dive on it, so he’s entitled to pick the ball up as he came from an onside position.
I have to say Toga is quite clearly correct here - Batley just dives over Van Zyl's back off his feet and onto the ball. Pretty blatant. However it just proves what a hard job it is to be a ref and clearly they don't get everything right all the time. I do agree that he got the Loz decision right though and I would say exactly the same if it was the other way round.
Ignoring some of the trash both on this and the Bris board, I just want to say that, as a Bristol supporter who for 10 years lived in Herts & watched Sarries, that was a game.
Regardless of who, should have had what penalty, in my view Bris lost because of things in their control.
Only gathering 3 of 7 restarts (2 of the misses led to scores for you), missing 3 conversions, 2 of which were 90%ers, is what cost us.
More accuracy in those 2 areas and Bris win. So, from me, thanks for an excellent game of rugby, good luck this week and let's all ignore the keyboard Warriors who are only interested in showing faux outrage!
Regardless of who, should have had what penalty, in my view Bris lost because of things in their control.
Only gathering 3 of 7 restarts (2 of the misses led to scores for you), missing 3 conversions, 2 of which were 90%ers, is what cost us.
More accuracy in those 2 areas and Bris win. So, from me, thanks for an excellent game of rugby, good luck this week and let's all ignore the keyboard Warriors who are only interested in showing faux outrage!
Indeed Sit_Down - it was a game that 'someone had to win' and as McCall said in his post match comments he was as happy with the performance at minute 72 as he was at minute 80. As a fan I want to watch a team that are always trying to stay in the fight and competing, and both teams did their absolute all to score as many points as they could - with some different bounces of the ball it could've ended up 60-60.
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