Saracens
SARRIES v TRAILFINDERS pls post match-related comment here
By The Saracens
January 30 2025
It’s difficult to know who’s left! What with the Internationals (full and age group) and the injured and those on holiday, it will be fascinating to see who turns out for Sarries against Ealing Trailfinders on Saturday. Just a quick recap: The Premiership Cup format this year is 5 groups of 4 teams: the 5 group winners plus the top 3 runners up progress to the next round. Sarries are 3rd in the group on 9 points: Ealing and Quins both have 12 points while London Scottish are pretty much out of it with 2. If they win their 3 remaining games, qualification is still possible but given everything else, one wonders just how much effort they will put in to progressing.
Trailfinders on the other hand have much to prove and will come to the StoneX believing they can win. No bones about it, this will be a tough one. Trailfinders have some decent players including some familiar names: Ben Harris, Francis Moore, Nathan Earle, Reuben Bird-Tulloch & Biyi Alo. They haven’t lost since they went to The Stoop in November, just coming up short 38-33. Of course they beat Sarries at Trailfinders Sports Club earlier in the season by 29-19. In recent weeks they have had some thumping wins: 84-29 over Cornish Pirates, 55-26 over Caldy and 95-7 over Cambridge. Away from home the games are (a bit) closer: 8-28 v Chinnor and 25-35 v Coventry.
I have no idea who will put on the Sarries black and red. We could see the return of the likes of Alex Goode or Theo McFarland. We will probably see some of the younger lads getting a bit more experience: Charlie Bracken, Brandon Jackson maybe even Louie Johnson. We will might also see a couple of the injury-cover players like Carwyn Tuipolotu, Callum Braley, Tiff Eden or Tim Swiel. The bulk of the team will probably come from the Academy players (well at least those who aren’t playing for the Under 20’s or injured). We won’t see Jack Bracken, Angus Hall or Olamide Sodeke (all England U20) or Harry Wilson (2/3 week ban).
I suspect that whatever team we field won’t be strong enough to live with Trailfinders but it will be good experience for the young lads and hopefully give them some good experience.
I have never heard of the officials (referee Dan Jones assisted by Calum Howard and Neil Chivers) and there is no TMO! May not be a bad thing.
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StumbleuponSARRIES v TRAILFINDERS pls post match-related comment here
Discussion started by TheSaracens.com , 30/01/2025 16:19
TheSaracens.com
30/01/2025 16:19
30/01/2025 16:19
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:02:12:11:46:40 by Darraghgirl.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:02:12:11:46:40 by Darraghgirl.
I’ll take a stab at the team:
1. Brantingham
2. Hadfield
3. Clarey/Hoskins/Beaton (I hope the latter)
4. Pearce-Paul
5. Sylvester
6. Eke
7. Michelow
8. Tuipulotu (if not Merrett to 6/7 and Michelow to 8)
9. Bracken
10. Johnson
11. Jackson
12. Hartley
13. Spink
14. Harrison Obatoyinbo
15. Eden (possibly switched with Johnson)
Subs: Issacs/Clarke, Crean, one of the guys above, Adebegmile, Hammick, West, Simpson, Wilson
I literally can’t think of any other players who might be available.
1. Brantingham
2. Hadfield
3. Clarey/Hoskins/Beaton (I hope the latter)
4. Pearce-Paul
5. Sylvester
6. Eke
7. Michelow
8. Tuipulotu (if not Merrett to 6/7 and Michelow to 8)
9. Bracken
10. Johnson
11. Jackson
12. Hartley
13. Spink
14. Harrison Obatoyinbo
15. Eden (possibly switched with Johnson)
Subs: Issacs/Clarke, Crean, one of the guys above, Adebegmile, Hammick, West, Simpson, Wilson
I literally can’t think of any other players who might be available.
Definitely won’t be Brantingham as he is stood down for 12 days. Maybe Borthwick will release Daly for a bit of exercise!
I’m not sure Daly has ever covered loosehead but needs must I suppose!
Quote:TommyKentish
I’m not sure Daly has ever covered loosehead but needs must I suppose!
He's covered hooker before at a lineout and did a top job, so it might be worth a go
1 Eroni Mawi
2 James Hadfield
3 Alec Clarey
4 Kaden Pearce-Paul
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Max Eke
7 Nathan Michelow (c)
8 Carwyn Tuipulotu
9 Gareth Simpson
10 Louie Johnson
11 Brandon Jackson
12 Olly Hartley
13 Sam Spink
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Tiff Eden
Replacements:
16 Eoghan Clarke
17 Sam Crean
18 Harvey Beaton
19 Ollie Hoskins
20 Kennedy Sylvester
21 Barnaby Merrett
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Josh Hallett
Four front rows on the bench!
2 James Hadfield
3 Alec Clarey
4 Kaden Pearce-Paul
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Max Eke
7 Nathan Michelow (c)
8 Carwyn Tuipulotu
9 Gareth Simpson
10 Louie Johnson
11 Brandon Jackson
12 Olly Hartley
13 Sam Spink
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Tiff Eden
Replacements:
16 Eoghan Clarke
17 Sam Crean
18 Harvey Beaton
19 Ollie Hoskins
20 Kennedy Sylvester
21 Barnaby Merrett
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Josh Hallett
Four front rows on the bench!
(Deleted duplicate lineup)
Although some of the team are playing because there's pretty much no other reasonable options, it is good to see that we're playing with a certain amount of strength to try and win, rather than it being an academy run-out!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:31:12:06:19 by ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII.
Although some of the team are playing because there's pretty much no other reasonable options, it is good to see that we're playing with a certain amount of strength to try and win, rather than it being an academy run-out!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:01:31:12:06:19 by ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII.
Which bonus front rowerr is covering the second/back row? Or are we considering Eroni as 10 cover ;-)
Quote:ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII
(Deleted duplicate lineup)
Although some of the team are playing because there's pretty much no other reasonable options, it is good to see that we're playing with a certain amount of strength to try and win, rather than it being an academy run-out!
I’m slightly surprised we’re risking Tizard and Elliott particularly considering our luck with injuries but I’m looking forward to the match a bit more than before.
Alternative pessimistic view is that if they're going to get injured over the Prem Cup campaign, do it early ;-)
Certainly for Elliott, I think he's playing because there is literally no one else for the wing this week other than playing someone slightly out of position. Not even sure if Oscar Wilson is fit, and although Harrison Obatoyinbo has been around the squad I think he's also rehabbing?
Would assume this week's bench becomes next week's starters. Might even see someone like Caluori feature although I'm sure if possible they'd rather he plays in a big U18 game against Quins next weekend.
Certainly for Elliott, I think he's playing because there is literally no one else for the wing this week other than playing someone slightly out of position. Not even sure if Oscar Wilson is fit, and although Harrison Obatoyinbo has been around the squad I think he's also rehabbing?
Would assume this week's bench becomes next week's starters. Might even see someone like Caluori feature although I'm sure if possible they'd rather he plays in a big U18 game against Quins next weekend.
Love that name - 'Lefty'. Can't get the number to copy but 1 (Lefty) -15 and then the rest.
Ealing Trailfinders to face Saracens:
Lefty Zigiriadis
Mike Willemse (c)
George Davis
Bobby De Wee
Ehize Ehizode
Rob Farrar
Jordy Reid
Will Montgomery
Craig Hampson
Dan Jones
Michael Dykes
Jordan Holgate
Reuben Bird-Tulloch
Ben Harris
Tobi Wilson
Cam Terry
Kyle Whyte
Adam Nicol
Matas Jurevicius
Ollie Newman
Lloyd Williams
Craig Willis
Angus Kernohan
Ealing Trailfinders to face Saracens:
Lefty Zigiriadis
Mike Willemse (c)
George Davis
Bobby De Wee
Ehize Ehizode
Rob Farrar
Jordy Reid
Will Montgomery
Craig Hampson
Dan Jones
Michael Dykes
Jordan Holgate
Reuben Bird-Tulloch
Ben Harris
Tobi Wilson
Cam Terry
Kyle Whyte
Adam Nicol
Matas Jurevicius
Ollie Newman
Lloyd Williams
Craig Willis
Angus Kernohan
Crikey, last time I saw George Davies in a sporting headline his mates had dug up the wicket at the test match to prove his innocence!
Our team is somewhat stronger than I feared so I am hoping for a decent game tomorrow between 2 reasonably matched teams. Will be great to see the likes of Spink get a chance.
Quote:ComeOnSarries
Our team is somewhat stronger than I feared so I am hoping for a decent game tomorrow between 2 reasonably matched teams. Will be great to see the likes of Spink get a chance.
Yes, want to see what Olly and Spink can do together and Louie releasing the exciting talent in the backs. Why oh why not start Charlie, makes no sense!?
The only 'negative' to pull from the thrashing of London Scottish in November was the huge gap Hartley & Spink left between them in defence at times, hopefully that's been worked on, will be good to see them both in action together again.
Think saying starting Simpson over Bracken makes no sense is a little strong. You always need two 9s and Simpson/Bracken I'd imagine will share those duties pretty evenly in the 3 cup games unless they want a little look at Declan Murphy against Scottish.
Obviously depends on the lineups in the Quins game but this is arguably the toughest of the 3 fixtures and can be used a little to plan for Premiership action. Can see why it makes sense to ask Simpson to control the game from the start with Bracken coming on early in the second half for some youthful exuberance if it opens up.
But that's making a lot of assumptions!
Think saying starting Simpson over Bracken makes no sense is a little strong. You always need two 9s and Simpson/Bracken I'd imagine will share those duties pretty evenly in the 3 cup games unless they want a little look at Declan Murphy against Scottish.
Obviously depends on the lineups in the Quins game but this is arguably the toughest of the 3 fixtures and can be used a little to plan for Premiership action. Can see why it makes sense to ask Simpson to control the game from the start with Bracken coming on early in the second half for some youthful exuberance if it opens up.
But that's making a lot of assumptions!
Quote:ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII
The only 'negative' to pull from the thrashing of London Scottish in November was the huge gap Hartley & Spink left between them in defence at times, hopefully that's been worked on, will be good to see them both in action together again.
Think saying starting Simpson over Bracken makes no sense is a little strong. You always need two 9s and Simpson/Bracken I'd imagine will share those duties pretty evenly in the 3 cup games unless they want a little look at Declan Murphy against Scottish.
Obviously depends on the lineups in the Quins game but this is arguably the toughest of the 3 fixtures and can be used a little to plan for Premiership action. Can see why it makes sense to ask Simpson to control the game from the start with Bracken coming on early in the second half for some youthful exuberance if it opens up.
But that's making a lot of assumptions!
Let’s hope so. Was a fan of Simpson when he first came on loan, made a difference in that comeback win against Saints. But he’s had few opportunities, hasn’t excelled when he has had the chance and we sort of know what he can do - I just thought it was a good opportunity to start Charlie and get him some more experience.
I’m pleased with this backline. Hopefully they play plenty and don’t just chase kicks.
I hope McCall keeps a very open mind over the next few weeks. Our backline has been really poor this season. Daly will be straight back at 15, but I’d like to think all the other backline slots are available for the Quins game in March if any of these boys has a good month.
I hope McCall keeps a very open mind over the next few weeks. Our backline has been really poor this season. Daly will be straight back at 15, but I’d like to think all the other backline slots are available for the Quins game in March if any of these boys has a good month.
27 mins in and Ealing winning 10-27...
Defensively we look like several of our team have met for the first time today :-0
Defensively we look like several of our team have met for the first time today :-0
Can’t wait to hear the plethora of excuses from the coaches and self defined “real fans who back the team” for another dog of a performance
To those who don’t think that there are some serious issues or try and excuse today or blame the ref…
Stop lying to yourself
Stop lying to yourself
Non-existent defence, poor discipline, not much attack (don’t think I saw Spink with ball in hand once). The only thing we’re doing even half decently at the moment is the scrum. Ealing understandably look more cohesive and better drilled than us but in the first half all they had to do was put the ball through the hands to score a try.
I hope Eke is ok, glad to see him walk off eventually.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:02:01:17:02:48 by TommyKentish.
I hope Eke is ok, glad to see him walk off eventually.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:02:01:17:02:48 by TommyKentish.
Elliot and Jackson looked a league above the rest of our boys IMO. Their work rate and basics were very good. But elsewhere we were very poor. No go forward in the pack, and 9 and 10 didn’t impose at all. Hartley was solid, and tackled very well, but another very disappointing performance.
Jackson and Eke were big positives from those who haven't had much first team game time, Tizard and Elliott showed why they are getting that time.
As for everything else, utter shambles. As put above, looked like many had met for the first time. Ball from both 9s was dreadful, which didn't help Johnson but that's no excuse for an iffy performance from him too. Hartley was hit and miss and I forgot Spink was even playing.
As for everything else, utter shambles. As put above, looked like many had met for the first time. Ball from both 9s was dreadful, which didn't help Johnson but that's no excuse for an iffy performance from him too. Hartley was hit and miss and I forgot Spink was even playing.
Ealing played some great rugby. We have serious problems regardless of missing players. Kicked all game. No one got over the gainline and our wingers are stood on the touchlines 25m away from our outside centre waiting for predictable kicks and not getting involved. Perfect chance to try and play some attacking rugby and take risks yet we do the same old boring static rugby. Its such a waste of some talented players
It’s a shame we’ve played Ealing first up in both sets of matches as they’ve won the game before we’ve woken up. Considering that team was pretty recognisable from the one at Exeter last week that was a massive step back from some of the lads.
Has Eden played since the last set of games? He was all over the place and ruthlessly exposed.
No idea why we started kicking off long in the second half when Jackson had won most of the contestable ones in the first half.
Ealing are not unlike Sale, relentless South African carriers and you would back them in a playoff against Newcastle.
Has Eden played since the last set of games? He was all over the place and ruthlessly exposed.
No idea why we started kicking off long in the second half when Jackson had won most of the contestable ones in the first half.
Ealing are not unlike Sale, relentless South African carriers and you would back them in a playoff against Newcastle.
Another disappointing day at the office against a committed and well drilled team. I certainly thought Ealing were much more slick in their passing across the field than we were. The only area where I thought we had the edge was the rolling maul. Rather like England we box kick far too often for our own good.
Not one player put their hand up today and said to the coaches you have to pick me. Disappointed with 9, 10 and 15 in particular.
Not one player put their hand up today and said to the coaches you have to pick me. Disappointed with 9, 10 and 15 in particular.
But even with the rolling maul we lost possession a couple of times when it obviously wasn’t going anywhere.
I would say Elliot and Jackson most definitely put in a first team worthy performance
I would say Elliot and Jackson most definitely put in a first team worthy performance
I think one thing we can tick off is that getting clean, quick ball isn’t necessarily an IVZ issue. It’s either a tactic issue or a system issue with the way we’re rucking.
Quote:TommyKentish
I think one thing we can tick off is that getting clean, quick ball isn’t necessarily an IVZ issue. It’s either a tactic issue or a system issue with the way we’re rucking.
Yep. Which is down to coaching
Quote:#wolfpack1
I’m pleased with this backline. Hopefully they play plenty and don’t just chase kicks.
I hope McCall keeps a very open mind over the next few weeks. Our backline has been really poor this season. Daly will be straight back at 15, but I’d like to think all the other backline slots are available for the Quins game in March if any of these boys has a good month.
Ok so that audition was well and truly failed.
What a dog of a performance.
Tizzard showed well as you’d expect from him playing at this level and wingers did ok when they were allowed to touch the ball.
The rest of them….
The default to kicking is just a joke to be honest, and it’s endemic across the whole team. Kick away turnover ball, kick away attacking ball, grubber this (Charlie B after a Tobias break), box kick that (Simpson again and again), cross field kick when it isn’t on (Louie J), even drop goal attempt in the 5th minute of a bloody Prem Cup fixture!
I say everyone - it doesn’t extend to Hartley. His default is just to find contact. His refusal to pass the ball is quite bizarre. Poor old Sam Spink touched it once all game I think. Bet he’s delighted he left Perth to shiver through that shower.
What we’re seeing at the moment is utter rubbish I’m afraid. Hair dryer treatment desperately needed. Unless they’re doing what they’re told. Which is even more concerning.
I don’t have a huge issue with the drop goal attempt, young half backs should be managing the game like it’s a full blown senior match and we were getting marched back by the defence. The only option to avoid a turnover was to kick in some fashion, I reckon Faz would taken the same choice.
Agreed Hartley does need to develop his distribution but it seems like someone dusted off the Brad Barritt play book from 10 years ago and told him to copy it.
Agreed Hartley does need to develop his distribution but it seems like someone dusted off the Brad Barritt play book from 10 years ago and told him to copy it.
Brandon Jackson played well & Tobias Elliott made a bit of ground (usually in very heavy traffic). Set piece battle fairly even.
We do however have a massive lack of creativity from SH to OC & defence in the backs today was if anything even worse (Charlie B did make one excellent break to set up one of Brandon's tries).
Ealing's backline looked far more threatening in possession - when I 've seen them play before they've tended to rely on forward domination, but did not need to do so today.
Officials permitting pretty much permanent offside from Ealing defenders was unhelpful but even so, very disappointing.
We do however have a massive lack of creativity from SH to OC & defence in the backs today was if anything even worse (Charlie B did make one excellent break to set up one of Brandon's tries).
Ealing's backline looked far more threatening in possession - when I 've seen them play before they've tended to rely on forward domination, but did not need to do so today.
Officials permitting pretty much permanent offside from Ealing defenders was unhelpful but even so, very disappointing.
Time to stop ignoring the obvious truth, from McCall down we are encouraging our players to play without the ball and slow any limited possession down to such an extent it's almost unusable.
This isn't a this season thing it's been a while and I've lost faith in them changing anything now.
It's so blindingly obvious it's harmful to how we play and yet we persist across all competitions bar the Women's where what do you know they actually play at pace and are able to run onto the ball and make metres rather than get smashed whilst taking static ball against repeatedly set defences.
Can literally a single person on here tell me the benefit of slowing down our possession at almost every breakdown and ruck? Can McCall? Can any of the coaches?
It's absolute rubbish and it's being coached.
This isn't a this season thing it's been a while and I've lost faith in them changing anything now.
It's so blindingly obvious it's harmful to how we play and yet we persist across all competitions bar the Women's where what do you know they actually play at pace and are able to run onto the ball and make metres rather than get smashed whilst taking static ball against repeatedly set defences.
Can literally a single person on here tell me the benefit of slowing down our possession at almost every breakdown and ruck? Can McCall? Can any of the coaches?
It's absolute rubbish and it's being coached.
Paul i totally agree with you. Its being coached and its not working. Sometimes difficult decisions have to be made but change isnt always a bad thing. Feels like we need some new fresh ideas. An injection of.something especially in our attacking play
0/4 in the last 4 matches now in all comps, with very disappointing defeats vs Castres and this game in particular. We've shipped a total of 130 points. What's happening?!
As my son said to me, apart from a few first squad players, we watched the Championship leaders who play together week in week out against an “Ampthill” side, so unsurprising we lost. As mentioned, you can see why our two wings are in or around the main squad, they looked a cut above in their chasing, tackling and creativity when they had some ball. Olly needs to be given a go at 12 IF he gets some quick ball?! We need to change our game plan and a few personnel in key positions like SH - give Charlie a go from the bench, see what he can do. Brandon a few years ago was sometimes short on effort, but he has gone away and worked on his game and found his best position - he is a big, fast winger and can create and finish some great opportunities. Now is the time to be testing these guys in the match day squad, whilst we are “in transition”.
Nice to see Ferg with the squad yesterday, holding tackle bags etc - don’t think it was cos he needs the practice, probably so he can be around the young guys and Sarries as a whole. Let’s give him the reins to run a game and the quick ball necessary to execute it!
Nice to see Ferg with the squad yesterday, holding tackle bags etc - don’t think it was cos he needs the practice, probably so he can be around the young guys and Sarries as a whole. Let’s give him the reins to run a game and the quick ball necessary to execute it!
Olly looks like he should have the minerals, but we’re still waiting to see him actually play really well and dominate a game. Jury is still out imo. He also desperately needs to learn to pass. I’m not being flippant here - if all we’re expecting from our 12 is to run into contact, to channel my inner Stuart Barnes (eurgh), we should play Ben Earl there. He is more likely to get over the gain line more often, and we won’t defend any worse. It’ll also allow us to play McFarland, Gonzalez and Willis in the backrow.
Re the drop goal - for me, that’s a terrible option in this game. No one cares about the result; just as I don’t think any of us cared about the Exeter result. We just want to see some recognition that our chronic inability to attack is a problem and they’re doing something about it. The plays up to the hashed drop goal attack consisted of literally nothing more than someone running into contact off 9 and being sat down. About 10 phases? Maybe 12? Of literally just a one up runner off 9. No ball movement. No deception. Nothing. And then a hacked drop goal.
I’m not angry, I’m just confused … they can’t believe this approach is going well. It’s demonstrably going really badly… Why aren’t we changing it?
Re the drop goal - for me, that’s a terrible option in this game. No one cares about the result; just as I don’t think any of us cared about the Exeter result. We just want to see some recognition that our chronic inability to attack is a problem and they’re doing something about it. The plays up to the hashed drop goal attack consisted of literally nothing more than someone running into contact off 9 and being sat down. About 10 phases? Maybe 12? Of literally just a one up runner off 9. No ball movement. No deception. Nothing. And then a hacked drop goal.
I’m not angry, I’m just confused … they can’t believe this approach is going well. It’s demonstrably going really badly… Why aren’t we changing it?
Quote:saracensfan62
0/4 in the last 4 matches now in all comps, with very disappointing defeats vs Castres and this game in particular. We've shipped a total of 130 points. What's happening?!
We led at half time in the first 3 but fell away after 60 minutes. Odd given that we have traditionally been a second half team. So I don’t think we are too far away.
Ealing hit us hard and early at their place. I suspect some of the Ampthill lads have too many scars from previous beatings by them.
Quite a few people have been saying get Hartley, Spink, Bracken etc in. The reality is both that they aren't ready, the incumbents are good and that nothing will change until the coaching does.
We've seen the evidence that unless we're playing into a gale or chasing a 20 point lead we simply don't play ball in hand if we can avoid it.
If we do it's so painfully slow and telegraphed that even the most inept defence look like they're an impenetrable wall.
I know this is a game not life or death but I am so fed up with this.
We have some hugely talented players, generational in some positions and we're absolutely wasting their ability.
Willis must be wondering why on earth he left Bordeaux.
No wonder Carerras wasn't interested. What quality player wants to come to a club just to chase kicks and play a four year old game plan?
We've seen the evidence that unless we're playing into a gale or chasing a 20 point lead we simply don't play ball in hand if we can avoid it.
If we do it's so painfully slow and telegraphed that even the most inept defence look like they're an impenetrable wall.
I know this is a game not life or death but I am so fed up with this.
We have some hugely talented players, generational in some positions and we're absolutely wasting their ability.
Willis must be wondering why on earth he left Bordeaux.
No wonder Carerras wasn't interested. What quality player wants to come to a club just to chase kicks and play a four year old game plan?
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