London Welsh
London Welsh to move to Wales
By Dragons' Den
April 22 2010
The rumours circulating at London Welsh over the past few weeks have finally been confirmed by the BBC. The previously announced Partnership Agreement with Ospreys has suddenly developed from one that promised a handful of loan players and sharing of knowledge to one where the entire London Welsh 1st XV squad moves to Wales for training, commuting back to England for matches.
Recent press statements by John Taylor, London Welsh Managing Director, played down talks of any major link-up with Ospreys. The Heads of Agreement announced a couple of weeks ago apparently allowed Ospreys to send players to London Welsh for match fitness or development and in return Welsh received the benefit of Ospreys’ wisdom on training, running a professional club and in any negotiations with Brentford FC. Supporters also read that London Welsh were close to agreement with Brentford for the use of Griffin Park at the tail-end of next season and to invest £10m into the new stadium at Lionel Road. Brentford have since denied that this figures in any of their short or medium term plans.
In reality, and as confirmed by the BBC's Scrum V, a close tie-up with Ospreys is planned and the two sets of management have been in negotiation for several months. A fortnight ago the 1st XV players were informed that next season they would be training full time at the Ospreys’ facilities in Neath and it had already been agreed with the region that a number of young players would sign for London Welsh on a season-long loan deal to allow London Welsh to reduce the number of retained players. The BBC report that the WRU are concerned by the move and the views of the RFU can only be imagined.
Despite a week of reported comments from John Taylor in the rugby press and daily papers the official London Welsh website remains eerily quiet. After an unsettled season off the field surely the members deserve some firm information and openness instead of relying on the media to find out the latest developments at the club especially when it will bring such fundamental changes?
Link: BBC Report
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Discussion started by The Dragons\\\' Den , 22/04/2010 21:12
The Dragons\\\' Den
22/04/2010 21:12
22/04/2010 21:12
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:04:22:21:18:56 by Dragons' Den.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:04:22:21:18:56 by Dragons' Den.
Yeah, the website is quiet because due to family bereavements, the flight ban etc, the office has been a tad quiet recently. Maybe the club could spend vast amounts of money paying a company to run the website? But as it is the person who manages the website is also busy doing their other jobs at the club and will put an announcement on the site when it's prepared. Or maybe he's just keeping you all in the dark for a laugh?
To be honest I'm surprised anyone wants anything to do with the club having read the majority of posts on here. The office staff have been under a huge amount of uncertainty in the past year, twice thinking they could lose their jobs but they have stuck with London Welsh and deserve some bloody support. Give them a break. How many of you have been in the office in your spare time to help out? John Taylor is one of the hardest working men I have met, he's doing his very best to make sure this club survives, He, Natalie, Michelle, Joe and Andrew deserve as much credit as the playing staff.
Any statement that needs to be made will be put on the website when it has been prepared and checked. Stop moaning.
To be honest I'm surprised anyone wants anything to do with the club having read the majority of posts on here. The office staff have been under a huge amount of uncertainty in the past year, twice thinking they could lose their jobs but they have stuck with London Welsh and deserve some bloody support. Give them a break. How many of you have been in the office in your spare time to help out? John Taylor is one of the hardest working men I have met, he's doing his very best to make sure this club survives, He, Natalie, Michelle, Joe and Andrew deserve as much credit as the playing staff.
Any statement that needs to be made will be put on the website when it has been prepared and checked. Stop moaning.
Quote:Dragon's Den
surely the members deserve some firm information and openness instead of relying on the media
To be fair, "the members" is not the same thing as "the people who read the official LW website" or "the people who read this website", and both websites are actually "media".
The BBC report is all "plans" and "understands" and "still awaiting official confirmation". It would be nice if the LW official website was always first with the news but in its long and glorious life, this has rarely been the case.
I'd rather discuss the story than how we heard it - I think the story is more important.
I am sure the WRU will be irritated; it's a direct attack on the Premiership. I would expect the RFU to be irritated too. I wonder what the regulations on cross-registering-body loans are.
On a purely playing point, the Ospreys have got some pretty good squad players, haven't they? Their sixth-choice winger plays for Wales..
I'll leave aside the matter of communication (I'm bound to be jumped on by the negativity police anyway so I won't make myself a very easy target!) but I do have some basic concerns about this plan.
The move to Wales appears inevitable and will probably bring the final split between the pro and amateur sections of the club. I have no doubt about the ability of the amateur sections to manage without the 1st XV being based in London but it would be a shame if the London Welsh Family came from a 'broken home'.
The most successful clubs have strong community links. For numerous reasons this is an area that we haven't managed to fully embrace in the past but if we have ambitions of increasing crowds then contact with local schools and community schemes is vital. How can we do this with the team based in Wales? Will we lose ground to local rivals Esher (a Championship team next season) and Ldn Scottish (who will have a number of fully pro players next season and big ambitions for the future)?
The access to Ospreys' player and facilities will be beneficial just hope it is not outweighed by other issues.
The move to Wales appears inevitable and will probably bring the final split between the pro and amateur sections of the club. I have no doubt about the ability of the amateur sections to manage without the 1st XV being based in London but it would be a shame if the London Welsh Family came from a 'broken home'.
The most successful clubs have strong community links. For numerous reasons this is an area that we haven't managed to fully embrace in the past but if we have ambitions of increasing crowds then contact with local schools and community schemes is vital. How can we do this with the team based in Wales? Will we lose ground to local rivals Esher (a Championship team next season) and Ldn Scottish (who will have a number of fully pro players next season and big ambitions for the future)?
The access to Ospreys' player and facilities will be beneficial just hope it is not outweighed by other issues.
NLD well done and absolutely, you can't build a brand in Wales, and as an English club in an English league, the management have lost the plot!
It just shows that there is no thought to the existing supporter base, community and what of the squad who have made their lives in london!
How many of the squad will take the option to move to the new location?
Oh a word to the person representing the management. Think you need to examine your attitude!
It just shows that there is no thought to the existing supporter base, community and what of the squad who have made their lives in london!
How many of the squad will take the option to move to the new location?
Oh a word to the person representing the management. Think you need to examine your attitude!
Ospreylia is growing...
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:04:23:10:41:33 by dottigirl.
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Quote:.BBC-ish
Rugby Conservationists are attempting to lure rare ospreys to new nesting sites in southern England using polystyrene models of the birds in "show homes".
Osprey breeding grounds are centred on Wales and the Ospreys management wants to see them spread to other parts of the country.
The region hopes the birds will be tempted into thinking the new sites are good places for ospreys to settle as they return from the summer abroad.
Five fake nests are at Kew reserve and two at Chiswick, both Surrey.
The Ospreys hope from there they will spread to other parts of the world, which provide better competition than their current home in Wales.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:04:23:10:41:33 by dottigirl.
nigel is corect in that this is more likely to split the pro side from the amateur side but as he will be aware the CASC has being preparing for this split especially if the pro side move away from odp after next season.
He is also right that it is difficult to see how to build up local support if the pro side are in wales the whole time but this must be taken against the interest an ospreys link up might make in getting more bum on seats from welsh exiles in the south east.
It would be good to see if this move away by the pro side was to happen those supporters with a bit of time on their side offering to help the amateur side with their time and experticise in administrative matters if the amateur side have to operate as a fully amateur rugby club running odp from September 2012
In the meantime those who have negative thoughts should think where we have been in june 2009 and january this year as to how the pro club can survive financially if it does not get some financial back up
this set up with the ospreys will allow player costs to be reducded considerablyand improve player skills.
Without it how do people consider that the club can survive financialy ???
Answers below please
Mike Talbot
just finished chairman of minis and CASC director
He is also right that it is difficult to see how to build up local support if the pro side are in wales the whole time but this must be taken against the interest an ospreys link up might make in getting more bum on seats from welsh exiles in the south east.
It would be good to see if this move away by the pro side was to happen those supporters with a bit of time on their side offering to help the amateur side with their time and experticise in administrative matters if the amateur side have to operate as a fully amateur rugby club running odp from September 2012
In the meantime those who have negative thoughts should think where we have been in june 2009 and january this year as to how the pro club can survive financially if it does not get some financial back up
this set up with the ospreys will allow player costs to be reducded considerablyand improve player skills.
Without it how do people consider that the club can survive financialy ???
Answers below please
Mike Talbot
just finished chairman of minis and CASC director
I agree that after the chaos of the last 12 months we have no option other than to be creative and radical. Who knows how much money Kelvin has invested but I for one cant blame him for exploring options that both guarantees the future of LW but also releases him from a massive financial burden.
Life never allows you to stand still and do nothing - you just get left behind, so change is coming and I for one will be patient to see what is eventually agreed and announced. Kelvin deserves our patience at the very minimum, without him we'd be in London 5 playing in a park !
Life never allows you to stand still and do nothing - you just get left behind, so change is coming and I for one will be patient to see what is eventually agreed and announced. Kelvin deserves our patience at the very minimum, without him we'd be in London 5 playing in a park !
Well said NSB and Mike T.
The club can't confirm anything until it's all been settled. The WRU and RFU may yet be able to block these plans, and I daresay the club don't want to look foolish by announcing something that may not happen.
Yes, we'd all like to know what's going on, but this is a business and every discussion cannot and should not be published.
The club can't confirm anything until it's all been settled. The WRU and RFU may yet be able to block these plans, and I daresay the club don't want to look foolish by announcing something that may not happen.
Yes, we'd all like to know what's going on, but this is a business and every discussion cannot and should not be published.
Londonbound, if that was aimed at me, I am not 'representing the management', I am representing my own views, which I thought I was perfectly entitled to do? Unless you can only post if you have exactly the same views as everyone else? If this is the case I am very very sorry.
I am just do fed up with coming on here and reading about how terrible the communication is, how the office staff don't always have the answers when you ring them. THIS IS A BUSINESS. They can't just go posting stuff willy nilly all over the Internet. They have to make sure everything is absolutely concrete before they say anything. Surely you understand the implications of them posting incorrect information on the official website?
Luckily the office staff never look on here. I wouldn't like to see a forum constantly discussing how terrible people think I am doing my job!!!
I am just do fed up with coming on here and reading about how terrible the communication is, how the office staff don't always have the answers when you ring them. THIS IS A BUSINESS. They can't just go posting stuff willy nilly all over the Internet. They have to make sure everything is absolutely concrete before they say anything. Surely you understand the implications of them posting incorrect information on the official website?
Luckily the office staff never look on here. I wouldn't like to see a forum constantly discussing how terrible people think I am doing my job!!!
So they've got time to talk to the BBC, the Daily Mail, the Guardian etc, but not to post a statement on the club's official website? Okey dokey...
Maybe this sharing of knowledge will provide some ideas on how best to communicate with the fans. After all, 'THIS IS A BUSINESS' and WE'RE THE PAYING CUSTOMERS!
Maybe this sharing of knowledge will provide some ideas on how best to communicate with the fans. After all, 'THIS IS A BUSINESS' and WE'RE THE PAYING CUSTOMERS!
Who says they've spoken to anyone? That BBC article is pure conjecture, there isn't any confirmation from the Ospreys, London Welsh, or anyone (RFU, WRU) apart from a WP rent-a-quote?
'The BBC have contacted the Ospreys, London Welsh and the Premier clubs in England but are still awaiting an official confirmation.'
Besides, there are existing employees including the players who need informing and perhaps given the chance if they want to relocate? I would hate to see my employer announce relocation/redundancies to the press before the staff were sorted out.
'The BBC have contacted the Ospreys, London Welsh and the Premier clubs in England but are still awaiting an official confirmation.'
Besides, there are existing employees including the players who need informing and perhaps given the chance if they want to relocate? I would hate to see my employer announce relocation/redundancies to the press before the staff were sorted out.
This is such a ridiculous suggestion - it can't be true. Someone is havin a larf!
I'm all for a tie up with the O's but this is impractical and over the top.
I'm all for a tie up with the O's but this is impractical and over the top.
I don't think the idea of training in Wales is unworkable.
I would even go as far as suggesting that if it was possible and the RFU and WRU agreed it might be worth considering playing some games in Wales.
In my opinion the clubs support has not and will not grow whilst it plays in the Richmond area.
There is far too much rugby in this neck of woods
Gates have gone up a little since being in The Championship but I question whether the Welsh Community in London - other than those that are already supporters or members are interested in the club. Although some, I know will disagree, the club has tried to "market" itself with the resources and funds available to it. Without a magic marketing wand I doubt if membership and gates will ever get to the numbers required or wished for whilst we stay in West London.
What about moving into South or East London or even further down into Surrey or a venture into Sussex or Kent.
I would even go as far as suggesting that if it was possible and the RFU and WRU agreed it might be worth considering playing some games in Wales.
In my opinion the clubs support has not and will not grow whilst it plays in the Richmond area.
There is far too much rugby in this neck of woods
Gates have gone up a little since being in The Championship but I question whether the Welsh Community in London - other than those that are already supporters or members are interested in the club. Although some, I know will disagree, the club has tried to "market" itself with the resources and funds available to it. Without a magic marketing wand I doubt if membership and gates will ever get to the numbers required or wished for whilst we stay in West London.
What about moving into South or East London or even further down into Surrey or a venture into Sussex or Kent.
Di Bark,while I agree with a lot of your points, particularly the Welsh community in London, the aspect of the benefits of rugby concentrated in certain areas of London have very distinct advantages. Just think about where you would go to trade diamonds in London or finding consultants for Medical conditions. There are a lot of examples of these specialist activities.
The driver for success off the field is continued and maintained success on the field.Then you may be able to move.
In the short term, I think that training in Wales may actually increase the crowds for London Welsh. It has needed to go back to its welsh roots for a long time in the view of the Welsh public and this reconnection could work very well.
I've been of the opinion for a long time that a full membership of a much improved Welsh Premiership is the way to improve membership within London Welsh.
The Welsh Premiership at the moment is still too weak but it is gradually improving. Look at the Llanelli performance at Old Deer Park this season and you could see the ambition with players who on the whole were all incredibly young.They lacked power but as long as this increased competitive league improves and the WRU are vigilant in keeping realistic pay then this league will improve. It may take in total ten years however and meanwhile the championship suits our purpose. It may even help to improve the quality of rugby within the Welsh Premiership.
In the longer term Welsh Teams, their supporters and more Welsh villagists in London will be attracted to watching rugby at the club.
The driver for success off the field is continued and maintained success on the field.Then you may be able to move.
In the short term, I think that training in Wales may actually increase the crowds for London Welsh. It has needed to go back to its welsh roots for a long time in the view of the Welsh public and this reconnection could work very well.
I've been of the opinion for a long time that a full membership of a much improved Welsh Premiership is the way to improve membership within London Welsh.
The Welsh Premiership at the moment is still too weak but it is gradually improving. Look at the Llanelli performance at Old Deer Park this season and you could see the ambition with players who on the whole were all incredibly young.They lacked power but as long as this increased competitive league improves and the WRU are vigilant in keeping realistic pay then this league will improve. It may take in total ten years however and meanwhile the championship suits our purpose. It may even help to improve the quality of rugby within the Welsh Premiership.
In the longer term Welsh Teams, their supporters and more Welsh villagists in London will be attracted to watching rugby at the club.
elyboy
26/04/2010 19:39
26/04/2010 19:39
regarding players 50% laid off 25% leaving what a way to treat the players shame on danny
Quote:elyboy
regarding players 50% laid off 25% leaving what a way to treat the players shame on danny
This has alerady been proved, by a few others on here, that this is absolute shite.
I suggest you pop your toys back in and take your pram somewhere else.
Quote:elyboy
regarding players 50% laid off 25% leaving what a way to treat the players shame on danny
Why do you keep blaming Danny? I think you'll find it's more than his decision alone.
[www.thisislondon.co.uk]
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Now, what was Plan B...?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:05:15:00:46 by Mark W-J.
[news.bbc.co.uk]
Now, what was Plan B...?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:05:15:00:46 by Mark W-J.
In the this is london link, it says:-
The Rugby Football Union insist the players of any team in English competitions must live in this country.
Errrm, I'm no Lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the EU courts might have something to say about that?
The Rugby Football Union insist the players of any team in English competitions must live in this country.
Errrm, I'm no Lawyer, but I'm pretty sure the EU courts might have something to say about that?
Copied from the Ospreys site:
Ospreys statement re London Welsh
5 May 2010, 5:05 pmBy Ospreys Rugby
Following media reports today (Wednesday 5th May 2010) regarding the proposed partnership between Ospreys Rugby and London Welsh Rugby Football Club Ltd, the Ospreys have issued the following statement
Share
"We are disappointed at the RFU's reaction to the proposed partnership between the Ospreys and London Welsh Rugby Football Club Ltd, but would like to reiterate our continued commitment to working closely with London Welsh in a relationship that would be a positive step forward for both organisations as well as Welsh and English rugby in general.
"The proposed partnership would lead to improved facilities and an exchange of commercial and rugby expertise, bringing with it obvious benefits to the two organisations. Furthermore, the player and coaching development opportunities afforded by the partnership, with individuals being able to experience new environments and styles of rugby would inevitably help to raise standards, not only here in Ospreylia, but also, in the Championship in England.
"We will continue to discuss all possibilities with London Welsh, and would hope that both the RFU and the WRU are able to share our foresight and identify the many benefits that such a working partnership has for all parties."
Ospreys statement re London Welsh
5 May 2010, 5:05 pmBy Ospreys Rugby
Following media reports today (Wednesday 5th May 2010) regarding the proposed partnership between Ospreys Rugby and London Welsh Rugby Football Club Ltd, the Ospreys have issued the following statement
Share
"We are disappointed at the RFU's reaction to the proposed partnership between the Ospreys and London Welsh Rugby Football Club Ltd, but would like to reiterate our continued commitment to working closely with London Welsh in a relationship that would be a positive step forward for both organisations as well as Welsh and English rugby in general.
"The proposed partnership would lead to improved facilities and an exchange of commercial and rugby expertise, bringing with it obvious benefits to the two organisations. Furthermore, the player and coaching development opportunities afforded by the partnership, with individuals being able to experience new environments and styles of rugby would inevitably help to raise standards, not only here in Ospreylia, but also, in the Championship in England.
"We will continue to discuss all possibilities with London Welsh, and would hope that both the RFU and the WRU are able to share our foresight and identify the many benefits that such a working partnership has for all parties."
Geoff van Klaveren
07/05/2010 09:20
07/05/2010 09:20
Not sure why the RFU is insisting that 14 of the match day players should be English in Championship teams and why the WRU are worried about players nipping over the border having non Welsh players training in Wales with a Welsh region and Welsh players in England when they have allowed Rygbi Gogledd Cymru to be filled with Canadians!
Surely it can only benefit rugby in Britain as a whole.
Surely it can only benefit rugby in Britain as a whole.
I wonder what impact this will have on the rumoured turnover of players this summer. I'd expect that many were unwilling to relocate to Wales and had therefore indicated their intention to look for another club. But if we're staying put in South West London, will there be a chance for a re-think...?
Ive spoken to a Osprey's fringe player(a personal friend) and he has been told by management that he will be playing for LW next season on loan... Along with other players (3 or 4) including Gavin Henson and Duncan Jones (till December anyway) to assist in their development.. or in GH and DJ case match fitness....
He has also been told he does NOT need to move, as all training is to be held in Swansea.
So it seems your speculation has now become a reality!!!
Come on LONDON WELSH...!!!
He has also been told he does NOT need to move, as all training is to be held in Swansea.
So it seems your speculation has now become a reality!!!
Come on LONDON WELSH...!!!
Quote:osprey69
Ive spoken to a Osprey's fringe player(a personal friend) and he has been told by management that he will be playing for LW next season on loan... Along with other players (3 or 4) including Gavin Henson and Duncan Jones (till December anyway) to assist in their development.. or in GH and DJ case match fitness....
He has also been told he does NOT need to move, as all training is to be held in Swansea.
So it seems your speculation has now become a reality!!!
Come on LONDON WELSH...!!!
London welsh are not moving to or training in Wales, this has been confirmed to the players by John Taylor, I also cannot see Gh or DJ playing for us at all! don't think their ego's could cope!
They would be more then welcome though, i just don't see it happening! Sigh!
[quote Gareth1980]In the this is london link, it says:-
The Rugby Football Union insist the players of any team in English competitions must live in this country.unquote
Looks like the Cornish Pirates may have to play in the Magners League in that case.
EDF Trophy Winners 2007
B & I Cup Winners 2010
The Rugby Football Union insist the players of any team in English competitions must live in this country.unquote
Looks like the Cornish Pirates may have to play in the Magners League in that case.
EDF Trophy Winners 2007
B & I Cup Winners 2010
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