By Leipziger
January 12 2011

I wrote this on Sunday night, and it seems more relevant after some of the discussion this week.

It seems, reading this site and other clubs', that there are only two prizes worth winning – the Premiership and the Heineken Cup. I suppose for teams like us, Leeds, Sale, Worcester last season, there is a third, Premiership survival.

But what about the Amlin Challenge Cup (tin pot cup as Touchy has often called it) and the LV= Cup (called the Unloved Cup by one punter)?

It has been said (I can't remember where or by whom) that the Challenge Cup is only there to give Europe's second tier something to do on Heineken weekends, and since the competition went several years without a sponsor I think there is probably some truth in that.

Neither tournament's format helps it in my opinion. The Amlin has truly become a competition for losers by letting three teams that don't qualify from their Heineken groups into the quarter-finals. Jean-Pierre Lux has called this a success last season as Cardiff won the tournament after dropping down from the big cup, presumably it would have been a failure if Toulon had won the final.

Say Toulon had needed to win that final to qualify for the Heineken – why should they be denied by a team that had a chance to qualify by winning the big cup but wasn't good enough to?

And was it a success for the Falcons? Would we have got a lower crowd in the quarters had we played, say, Castres, instead of Cardiff? I doubt it.

Then we have the LV= Cup. This cup in my view was brought in to help Welsh teams have more competitive games more regularly – and who cares if smaller English teams are now denied their chance of competing against the elite in the cup, or we fans are denied the excitement of knock-out rugby and the novelty of a day out at a smaller club?

The old format of either one home game and two away games or vice versa in the group was a farce, favouring two teams in each group. It also made the tedium of having the same draw in two consecutive seasons necessary.

Now we have two home games and two away it is better, but playing teams in another group makes it possible (though highly unlikely) that all of the teams in one group could win every game but only one would qualify for the semis, while in their opposing group one team would qualify despite losing every game. Daft.

For their faults, I think these cups are well worth winning simply because of the Heineken Cup places on offer. Forget the “we can't compete in the Premiership and Heineken” nonsense – if we are in the Heineken we have a higher profile and a chance to get better players and higher crowds.

Would more people turn up this Friday if we were playing Toulouse or Munster than the 1,500-2,000 who will watch us take on Montpellier? Undoubtedly.

And not caring about the coming four cup games will not help us against London Irish. Did playing a “poor” team (Dave Thompson's words) at Sale the other year and getting thumped 50-odd help us in our European semi at Worcester five days later?

You cannot just go through the motions for a few weeks then turn it on when you want to. Success breeds success, it creates momentum and confidence.

So I want to see four wins over the coming weeks. Yes we should give some fringe players game time, people like Fitzpatrick, Hodgson, Charlton (if fit), Williams, Ward, Graham, Townson, Mark Wilson. But we shouldn't make 10-12 changes and expect there to be no negative consequences.

If it comes to February and we are still in with a chance of qualifying for the LV= semis, they the way to approach the (first) Exeter home game is obvious (I hope).

But should we have been beaten gallantly at Bath, then what helps us more against London Irish? A boring, turgid defeat like we had in last season's LV= home games in which half the team didn't look bothered (though I'm sure they were

Even a repeat of our European win over the Chiefs leaves us on a high, with the confidence of a tight win behind us should things get nervy late on at the Madjeski.

So in my view, winning in the cups is great not just for its own sake, but it can benefit us in our Premiership relegation battle.

Roll on victory on Friday night!

Worthless cups?

Discussion started by FalconsRugby.org.uk , 12/01/2011 18:28

FalconsRugby.org.uk
12/01/2011 18:28

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TouchLine
12/01/2011 18:43

Excellent and thought provoking article Leipy.

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Maccafan2
12/01/2011 19:48

Well said Liepy.Two five pointers against the Montpellier reserves,and Bourguoin who are down and out,could see us qualify,or at least build some confidence.The unloved cup is in our hands,with the convoluted group stage.Then its oirish who haven't won a premiership game for months,thats one we should definitely be targeting.So my target would be 5 wins

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DGNTR
12/01/2011 20:29

5 wins would do very nicely, I hope you're right.

I'd rather go for 6 wins though, but I'm a realist.

At this stage I'd happily take 4 GP wins out of our remaining games, that should be enough to survive.

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steve1888
12/01/2011 21:58

I thought Leipy meant he wants 4 wins in the cup games? My hope is the LV games as with Murray and VDH in then we're stronger and nearer the side for Exeter and Leeds and those who want to play in those games have had the euro games to put their hands up for selection for the all important games.

I see the LV as quite important for us as even a cup final would generate alot more interest and support for the club and some may say they're tinpot but when it gets to semi and final the teams in them certainly take seriously.

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DGNTR
12/01/2011 22:35

Many argue that a cup is a cup, no doubt that a cup final will grab everyone's attention and imagination.

The trick is to build on that if we were fortunate enough to be in a final, that's where I worry, we cannot even build a sand castle with the current set up.

I thought Leipy was obvious with what he wanted - 4 wins in cup games, I'm saying I'd take 4 wins in the league instead any day of the week.

Except Sundays of course...

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TouchLine
13/01/2011 09:07

Three wins would see us safe as long as two of them are against Leeds.

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