Bath

Fearns is quality,just goes to show the strength of our back rows,if only we could say the same of the second rows.

I think our second row is pretty strong.

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Stuart

Former ed.

Strong but not good enough.

You really are a misery this week Bri, maybe you should just go and have a sit down with a nice bottle of wine and come back in a few days when you've cheered up a bit.

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Stuart

Former ed.

My perspective is that whilst we've made great improvements over last season we're not a top 4 team yet.
I think the current league position flatters us, and we appear better than we are due to the underperformance of Tiggers and Quins.
Tiggs have been decimated by injuries this season. Had their squad been at full strength for most of the season I don't think we'd be above them.
Quins have underperformed compared to the last 2 seasons - whether they've settled to their true level this season, or whether they will strengthen and be better next season we have to wait and see.
What I think is apparent is we have progressed beyond the other nearly boys - Exeter, Wasps, Irish, & Sale.
So I see us as about 5th best - currently above that due to the poor performances of the other 2 clubs.
Now the internationals are out the way I can see Quins ending the season strongly, and as Leicester get more of their big players fit they will improve too. We might hang on for 4th, but I think 5th is the most likely. As said earlier it may well come down to a lack of bonus points.

Quote:

fat lock
My perspective is that whilst we've made great improvements over last season we're not a top 4 team yet.
I think the current league position flatters us, and we appear better than we are due to the underperformance of Tiggers and Quins.
Tiggs have been decimated by injuries this season. Had their squad been at full strength for most of the season I don't think we'd be above them.
Quins have underperformed compared to the last 2 seasons - whether they've settled to their true level this season, or whether they will strengthen and be better next season we have to wait and see.
What I think is apparent is we have progressed beyond the other nearly boys - Exeter, Wasps, Irish, & Sale.
So I see us as about 5th best - currently above that due to the poor performances of the other 2 clubs.
Now the internationals are out the way I can see Quins ending the season strongly, and as Leicester get more of their big players fit they will improve too. We might hang on for 4th, but I think 5th is the most likely. As said earlier it may well come down to a lack of bonus points.

Excellent summary, +1 (although predicted 5th before start of season, hoping hang on for 4th)

Quote:

fat lock
My perspective is that whilst we've made great improvements over last season we're not a top 4 team yet.
I think the current league position flatters us, and we appear better than we are due to the underperformance of Tiggers and Quins.
Tiggs have been decimated by injuries this season. Had their squad been at full strength for most of the season I don't think we'd be above them.
Quins have underperformed compared to the last 2 seasons - whether they've settled to their true level this season, or whether they will strengthen and be better next season we have to wait and see.
What I think is apparent is we have progressed beyond the other nearly boys - Exeter, Wasps, Irish, & Sale.
So I see us as about 5th best - currently above that due to the poor performances of the other 2 clubs.
Now the internationals are out the way I can see Quins ending the season strongly, and as Leicester get more of their big players fit they will improve too. We might hang on for 4th, but I think 5th is the most likely. As said earlier it may well come down to a lack of bonus points.

. I too agree with this assessment. We have some exciting players & great potential but believe we have some way to go to be considered genuine title contenders

There aren't "deserved" league positions and "actual" league positions. The league position might be flattering today, because of how the fixtures fall, but after round 22 it will be accurate.

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Stuart

Former ed.

I agree Stu to a degree

I'm not sure describing tables as accurate helps - tables are always accurate unless errors are made. What I believe they are is relative - your position in relation to the available opposition.
We all know there is a difference between playing a full strength team and a team missing 5 internationals.
Ultimately if you win it counts that you beat them and therefore you're better and you get the points and possibly finish above that team proving who is better.
However if looking at progress I believe looking at table positions even after 22 matches can be misleading.
Finishing higher up the table one year compared to the previous year only signifies progress if the other teams remain static. If other teams are weaker a rise up the table may only be because of their deterioration rather than your progress. Equally it is quite possible to improve but if you improve slower than your competitors in effect you have regressed.
But in essence I agree - if we finish in the top 4 we would have been one of the top four teams in the season. For reasons typed earlier I think we'll end up 5th - and I think we probably are about 5th best - so the table won't lie!

Finishing in the top four is way above what I thought we would achieve this season and I believed 6th would have been the best we could expect. However I have been proved wrong (again many will say) and have been overwhelmed by our success and in particular the play of young George Ford and Anthony Watson.

However I still believe we need more muscle and aggression up front and Attwood and Day st their best go a long way to meeting these needs. Both are still relatively young and will get better but we still need some solid experience old hand to really give the pack some grunt and physicality.

We are in much better shape than for many a year but have s long way to match The top 4 of Sarries,Saints,Tigers and Quins.

As well as finding a tough forward we also desperately need to find a top young scrum half.

We lack grunt in the engine room for me,as much as I like big Dave Attwood he can't do it on his own.A big nasty second row please.
Hooper will be off next year as will Caldwell one would expect Day and Spencer are both good players and will do a job but for me it's the reason our pack is being matched of late even with the quality of James and Wilson.

I don't think we have a long way to go to match Quins, I think we've already done that.

Can't see us reinforcing lock for next season, not with five or six options including a current England international.

As for hard nosed experience in the pack, that's James and Flo's remit.

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Stuart

Former ed.

It's interesting how we all view the same team from different perspectives.
Personally I don't see a problem in the pack. I think we have good strength in depth - my only concern is having two English international tight heads - we may loose both for chunks of the season depending on how Cole recovers.
As for a 'tough forward' - I think what we have are tough enough - the game has moved on from having an 'enforcer' - it's more down to personal responsibility. I haven't seen any of our players shy away from sorting out their opposite number. That's quite different to whacking them and then making your team mates complete the game 1 player down.

Scrum- half needs sorting. Stringer staying on is good, but it also shows that there is no alternative available at the moment. Hopefully this sticking plaster will cover us till after world cup when an exceptional 9 will entertain us.

My concern is centres - I'm not sure the coaches know what the best combination is, I certainly don't, and Slammin Sam's arrival will only complicate selection. It does feel like all the ingredients are there, but somehow the recipe isn't quite right.

Games are won by the forwards and the backs determine by how many.

I agree with Bri, any money this coming round of signings needs to be for a rough tough second row or even a number 8. Attwood seems to be doing the tough stuff on his own and needs more support especially from the front row. Everyone seems to think Chilcott was the hitman but he was a pussycat compared to men like Richard Lee and the Lord Dawe. That's when we had a big tough pack backed up by Redman, Hall and even earlier, Spurrell. You need iron men in your pack to both win ball but also ensure that the opposition do not 'pick on' one of your own. I always believed opposition targeted Claassens as they knew if he stopped playing Bath stopped playing. That was made worse as we lacked 2/3 tough guys, and Danny was not the force he once was.

I want us to become a top side again and this will take time but we have done very well this season.

What "coming round of signings"?

I don't think there are any more to come.

I suspect that second row and back row are pretty much last on the coaches shopping list.

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Stuart

Former ed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2014 10:20 by TCM2007.

The question for me is what do we have to do to close the gap on Sarries/Saints. We've improved massively this season, but the gap appears to be as wide as ever.

Have patience is the main thing. We have a bunch of very young super-talented players who will be coming into their prime in a few years having grown up together.

Add Burgess into the mix, and that looks like a plan to me.

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Stuart

Former ed.

We're very clearly not in the class of Saints and Sarries (yet). We definitely are in the class of Quins and Tigers, having beaten both at home and drawn with Tigers away.

We've scored the third most points and conceded the 4th least. We've won the third most games. In what way aren't we a top four team?

Are Leicester worse than they were last year? Absolutely. Does that change our progress? Not really. Quins and Ex are also worse, Sale, Saints, Sarries are better. We've made the biggest improvement year-on-year of everyone in the competition.

Let's not forget that before the Sarries loss we had a fantastic run, best we've had for 10 years. We have a competitive pack, a developing attack. We will finish in the top four and we deserve to.

I think 9 is everything for us. Otherwise, we have a great team. I worry that we're forcing a year out of stringer in the hope of genia tomorrow. The next step is believing we area as good as saints and sarries.

Quote:

Bri
We lack grunt in the engine room for me,as much as I like big Dave Attwood he can't do it on his own.A big nasty second row please.
Hooper will be off next year as will Caldwell one would expect Day and Spencer are both good players and will do a job but for me it's the reason our pack is being matched of late even with the quality of James and Wilson.

A special request please Bri. Can you please insert punctuation in your posts so we can all understand what you are trying to say.

Please Pm special request or I waste a post.

Quote:

DanWiley
The next step is believing we area as good as saints and sarries.

Absolutely. Act like a top 2 team. For example don't put your strongest team out in a a second tier competition, and if that means you lose, don't sweat it because it's not the big prize.

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Stuart

Former ed.

I'd take go into each game knowing you're going to win(I know this is impossible, but champions don't) and have a second team that plays that way because it's the only way into the first.