Bath
A TALE OF TWO CITIES….
By Devonport Boy
November 28 2024
“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times…it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness….” As we head into the next Premiership game before this year’s European adventure starts, that quote from Charles Dickens seems quite apt when comparing the relative positions of Bath and Exeter in the table. But is it quite as simple as that?
On one level it’s difficult to argue with the statistics. Bath secured five wins out of six in the opening block, racking up 25 points along the way with a positive points scored difference of 70. Exeter on the other hand have lost all six of their opening Premiership games and are sitting above Newcastle (who have actually won a game) only on the basis of bonus points accrued, with a negative points scored difference of -52.
Against that background you would think that we could look forward to this fixture with something approaching the levels of confidence which some of us are old enough to remember, but there is an unfortunate truism in rugby you’re only as good as the next result. We’ve been where Exeter are now and surely they must be feeling that the only way is up. If Rob Baxter can engender and build on a “backs to the wall” spirit amongst his talented team then they will prove to be tough opponents in this fixture.
If you haven’t already done so, I’d recommend that you take a look at the recent episode of the Good the Bad and the Ugly programme which featured Johann van Graan. It’s an intriguing watch. His ability to forensically analyse the game and his memory for detail are quite phenomenal. In describing Bath’s start to this year’s Premiership campaign, he was clear that so far we’ve played 12 halves of rugby, 11 of which were very good and 1 which wasn’t. No prizes for guessing that the latter was the first half against Bristol where we got caught cold. Exeter’s first half demolition of a strong Gloucester team at Kingsholm on Friday evening will surely provide a strong hint of what we can expect from them on Saturday.
The Premiership Cup competition still divides opinion, and Clubs continue to treat it differently. For me it’s been great to watch the younger players in our squad get game time and really step up to the challenge. I know from speaking to Kepu Tuipolotu and some of the others how highly they rate this competition and how much they relish putting on the shirt and competing for Bath. We’ve treated the Premiership Cup very much in the unwritten spirit of a development competition which I think is right. Yes, we’ve played a sprinkling of senior players, but I think I’m right in saying that the average age of the teams that we’ve fielded is something like 21.5 years old. And how they’ve delivered! It’s no accident that we now have great strength in depth and a wealth of young talent coming through. It’s a result of the investment over a number of years in the Development Pathway from school through the Academy and the Bucs competitions leading to genuine competition for places in the matchday squads. It bodes very well for sustained success in the future. Three wins out of three in a competition in which we have traditionally struggled speaks for itself. Those young players will have learned a lot, especially from a difficult day at the office against Bedford in horrible conditions.
Some clubs, Exeter included, have taken a different approach and fielded teams with a higher representation from their normal matchday squads. I’m not criticising them for that, each team needs to decide how to get the best out of this competition and Exeter are going through something of a rebuilding phase at present which will have influenced their team selection. Their game is evolving, and they’ve used the Premiership Cup to speed up the process. There was a time when their attacking threat was built mostly upon wave after wave of forward play, and if they got within 5mr or so of the line then a try seemed almost inevitable. These days they have also developed a much faster all court ball-in-hand game based on a very talented backline. You don’t want to be kicking uncontested ball to any of that lot with space to run in!
I think it’s also likely that they felt the need to build up some winning momentum in advance of the next block of Premiership games, and that worries me. The core members of their 1st team squad (stand fast those playing for their countries) have had game time together over the past few weeks whilst the Bath players haven’t, either because of our Premiership Cup selection policy or because of absence on international duty. They will come to the Rec with that experience under their belts whilst there is a nagging concern that as a team we might be a bit rusty. Reassuringly, it was pretty clear from what J P Ferreira said at the Members Event at Farleigh on Tuesday evening that the usual forensic analysis has been done and a strategic “cunning plan” developed to deal with whatever Exeter might bring.
I’m not going to take a stab at team selection at this stage. I know who I’d like to see playing, but I don’t know the implications of the Autumn Internationals for the availability of some of our key players and there are some worrying injuries which might mean that we may not be able to go into this game quite “full bore”, but our strength in depth these days means that we will still be competitive across the board.
I started with a quote from A Tale of Two Cities. There’s another phrase in the same paragraph: “it was the epoch of belief”. JvG says that there’s been a shift in the players’ mentality over the last couple of seasons from hope to win to belief that they can win every game. I’m banking on that. It’ll be a tough game but I’m nailing my colours to the mast for a Bath win.
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk. Team Up! (IP Logged), 28/11/2024 09:14
28/11/2024 09:14
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:11:16:40:12 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:11:16:40:12 by CoochieCoo.
Jacques Vermeulen thinks Exeter have turned a corner, local derbies are riddled with upsets so I hope we don't underestimate the game this weekend.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Jacques Vermeulen thinks Exeter have turned a corner, local derbies are riddled with upsets so I hope we don't underestimate the game this weekend.
My thoughts exactly, although JvG doesn’t come across as someone to take any opponent lightly.
That said, for me this has to be a full strength team to give us the best chance of winning. Not a game for any rotation.
Exeter are going to win a PL game soon, just hope it’s not on Saturday.
I don’t expect much rotation but suspect Stuart & Lawrence will be rested.
Underhill & Redoath are injured, Obano may miss out too.
PG
Underhill & Redoath are injured, Obano may miss out too.
PG
Quote:shipwrecked
Jacques Vermeulen thinks Exeter have turned a corner, local derbies are riddled with upsets so I hope we don't underestimate the game this weekend.
Agree, I remember several seasons ago when London Irish were in a similar position to Exeter having lost the first few games until we played them and……..lost !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Interesting selections to be made.
Assuming beno, underhill, pepper, cam are out and i would rest stuart and lawrence
Tdg
Big Joe
Hennessey
Butt
Muir
Finn
Spencer
Van wyk
Dunn
Du toit
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Reid
Barbeary
Bench: annett, cordwell, griffin, malony, richards , bayliss, schreuder, bailey
Real shame sela out as would have had him in the 23.
Think butt and hennessey deserve a go and mojo only plated c50 mins since pre season.
Would be tempted to give kepu t and tcs a go in the 23
Assuming beno, underhill, pepper, cam are out and i would rest stuart and lawrence
Tdg
Big Joe
Hennessey
Butt
Muir
Finn
Spencer
Van wyk
Dunn
Du toit
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Reid
Barbeary
Bench: annett, cordwell, griffin, malony, richards , bayliss, schreuder, bailey
Real shame sela out as would have had him in the 23.
Think butt and hennessey deserve a go and mojo only plated c50 mins since pre season.
Would be tempted to give kepu t and tcs a go in the 23
Very good read Devonport Lad.
This is going to be a very, very tough game......we need to be up and ready for the onslaught from a team who I am sure are aggrieved to be in their current league position
This is going to be a very, very tough game......we need to be up and ready for the onslaught from a team who I am sure are aggrieved to be in their current league position
Match officials.
Referee. Sara Cox
Assistants. Dan Jones and Harry Walbaum
TMO. David Rose
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Referee. Sara Cox
Assistants. Dan Jones and Harry Walbaum
TMO. David Rose
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Team Up. Gone strong!
Bath Rugby team news
Bath Rugby: 1. Thomas du Toit, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Cameron Redpath, 23 Alfie Barbeary
PG
Bath Rugby team news
Bath Rugby: 1. Thomas du Toit, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Guy Pepper, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Kieran Verden, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Cameron Redpath, 23 Alfie Barbeary
PG
Interesting that all Stuart and Lawrence are straight back in, wonder if this indicates that JvG will use the Newcastle game to give them their mandatory rest week.
Given Verden was technically released at the end of last season (then subsequently brought back on a short term deal) it's a serious achievement to make it into a matchday 23. I think I probably would have felt more comfortable with Cordwell on the bench (and switching TdT to TH), hopefully Kieran is a man rejuvenated in his 2nd spell with the club.
Shame that Sela got injured, would have been an ideal match to see a bit more of him.
Given Verden was technically released at the end of last season (then subsequently brought back on a short term deal) it's a serious achievement to make it into a matchday 23. I think I probably would have felt more comfortable with Cordwell on the bench (and switching TdT to TH), hopefully Kieran is a man rejuvenated in his 2nd spell with the club.
Shame that Sela got injured, would have been an ideal match to see a bit more of him.
Good team (on paper) but then it was a good team (on paper) vs Bristol as well. Hopefully the lads can bring home the points.
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Exeter:
Exeter Chiefs team news
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Tamati Tua
12 Will Rigg
11 Tommy Wyatt
10 Henry Slade
9 Stu Townsend
1 Scott Sio
2 Dan Frost
3 Marcus Street
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Richard Capstick
6 Ethan Roots
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Greg Fisilau
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Will Goodrick-Clarke
18 Jimmy Roots
19 Franco Molina
20 Ross Vintcent
21 Will Becconsall
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Ben Hammersley
If I am correct then 20 - 23 are backs, so 4:4 bench for Exeter vs a 6:2 for Bath?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:11:29:12:14:18 by BathMatt53.
Exeter Chiefs team news
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Tamati Tua
12 Will Rigg
11 Tommy Wyatt
10 Henry Slade
9 Stu Townsend
1 Scott Sio
2 Dan Frost
3 Marcus Street
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Richard Capstick
6 Ethan Roots
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Greg Fisilau
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Will Goodrick-Clarke
18 Jimmy Roots
19 Franco Molina
20 Ross Vintcent
21 Will Becconsall
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Ben Hammersley
If I am correct then 20 - 23 are backs, so 4:4 bench for Exeter vs a 6:2 for Bath?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:11:29:12:14:18 by BathMatt53.
Quote:BathMatt53
Exeter:
Exeter Chiefs team news
15 Josh Hodge
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso
13 Tamati Tua
12 Will Rigg
11 Tommy Wyatt
10 Henry Slade
9 Stu Townsend
1 Scott Sio
2 Dan Frost
3 Marcus Street
4 Rusi Tuima
5 Richard Capstick
6 Ethan Roots
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Greg Fisilau
Replacements:
16 Jack Innard
17 Will Goodrick-Clarke
18 Jimmy Roots
19 Franco Molina
20 Ross Vintcent
21 Will Becconsall
22 Will Haydon-Wood
23 Ben Hammersley
If I am correct then 20 - 23 are backs, so 4:4 bench for Exeter vs a 6:2 for Bath?
Slade at 10! Must be his first start there in donkeys years.
Vintcent is indeed a forward, admittedly a pretty lightweight one though.
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Vintcent is indeed a forward, admittedly a pretty lightweight one though.
Apologies for my igorance, (clearly) don't know a huge amount about the Exe squad!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:boozeboozebooze
Vintcent is indeed a forward, admittedly a pretty lightweight one though.
Apologies for my igorance, (clearly) don't know a huge amount about the Exe squad!
To be fair not many people were aware of Vintcent until about a year ago.
He was delivering pizzas in Exeter only a few months before getting an Italy call up.
[archive.ph]
Based on his arms they were heavy pizzas.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Slade at 10 are Chiefs that short of 10's? Such a specialist position - I note that god forbid we lose Finn I take it Cam will go to 10 and that concerns me but - Slade's best position has been 12/13 where he has played week in week out for years a real gamble - it might pay off but does smack of get your best player to cover - huge ask of him but I am sure he will love the challenge.
Vintcent is a decent player - very confrontational and abrasive which sums up the Chiefs pack - we need to front up and hit them hard from the start and look to knock the confidence they have built up in the Premiership cup out of them.
Such a shame Beno didn't make it and would have liked to see Kepu make the 23. Come on Bath.
Vintcent is a decent player - very confrontational and abrasive which sums up the Chiefs pack - we need to front up and hit them hard from the start and look to knock the confidence they have built up in the Premiership cup out of them.
Such a shame Beno didn't make it and would have liked to see Kepu make the 23. Come on Bath.
Two strong sides. Amazed an Exeter squad that can field an XV like that is without a win! And good/not ideal to see IFW back after his head knocks.
Considering how I thought we might rest a few, and wasn't sure on the fitness of the likes of Pepper and Redpath, super strong squad from us. Weather looks good, so with the front foot ball, might be a lot of fun. Really interested to see what the Prem Cup refresh has done for their confidence, and whether Slade really can effectively run the game from 10.
Bath by 11.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Considering how I thought we might rest a few, and wasn't sure on the fitness of the likes of Pepper and Redpath, super strong squad from us. Weather looks good, so with the front foot ball, might be a lot of fun. Really interested to see what the Prem Cup refresh has done for their confidence, and whether Slade really can effectively run the game from 10.
Bath by 11.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As an Exe supporter can I say thanks for Devonport boys excellent summing up on what I am sure will be a match to enjoy watching
Thanks Fisher - much appreciated! I think all of us on here who do the previews try to be balanced. I have to be extra careful with Exeter games given that I was born and bred on the banks of the Tamar rather than the Avon! The weather looks set fair, the pitch is in really good nick and if both teams bring their “A” game it could be a stand-out match.
Midfield battle could be tasty, Rigg and Tua both bring a lot of physicality, should be a good match up against Butt and Lawrence.
Although I'm not sure we'll see a more hard hitting centre pairing than the one Leicester are fielding in Kata and Perese (must be short odds on at least one of them getting sin binned)
Although I'm not sure we'll see a more hard hitting centre pairing than the one Leicester are fielding in Kata and Perese (must be short odds on at least one of them getting sin binned)
As a Bath supporter of some decades now, there is never ever room in one's head for complacent self satisfied thoughts. Exeter Chiefs are currently on the up, 'we' are currently near the top, where it is harder to stay than climbing up the table. So go get 'em Bath Boys.
Ted Hill demolishes Henry Slade for Pepper to score! 7-0
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Exe bludgeon over but was Henry Slades kick to the corner ‘inch perfect’ ?
Absolutely ludicrous decision, not even foul play
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Pepper demonstrates again just why JvG wanted him
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Ted Hill 
???? Towsend led with his head. How is that foul play?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
???? Towsend led with his head. How is that foul play?
Seem incapable of holding onto the ball
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Hard to know whether the laws is an ass or the ref has no empathy. Bit of both maybe.
Quote:shipwrecked
Ted Hill
One of the least sympathetic decisions I’ve seen in a while.
Shame as I have liked the ref other than that so far
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Conditions seem super tricky! Unique levels of grease!
Need to stamp our authority on this. Exeter are bang up for it and we’re not quite on the money. Ben and Finn and the pack need to get a grip.
I’d take any sort of win following this first half hour and the surprises we’ve seen in the other fixtures this weekend!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Need to stamp our authority on this. Exeter are bang up for it and we’re not quite on the money. Ben and Finn and the pack need to get a grip.
I’d take any sort of win following this first half hour and the surprises we’ve seen in the other fixtures this weekend!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
Conditions seem super tricky! Unique levels of grease!
Need to stamp our authority on this. Exeter are bang up for it and we’re not quite on the money. Ben and Finn and the pack need to get a grip.
I’d take any sort of win following this first half hour and the surprises we’ve seen in the other fixtures this weekend!
Yeah feels like we have a real physical edge and need to beat them up
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Lineout a mess as well!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
TBF we’re likely to be a bit rusty which won’t help
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Why is that a penalty when the ball was available?????
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
I may have to revise my initial positive comments on the ref…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:Toast and Marmite
I may have to revise my initial positive comments on the ref…
I agree, lack of experience showing, she was funny telling Slade of though, couldn't stop saying sorry!
Quote:Because the ball wasn't always available, due to a bath player (I didn't catch who) on his knees and elbows, with the ball under his torso.Toast and Marmite
Why is that a penalty when the ball was available?????
RAEBURN SHIELD
Did feel, listening on ref link,that the yellow was slightly driven by Rosie. Also I didn't appreciate his "well done" to the ref after she'd talked through her decision. But Rosie always has been a talkative TMO.
Not enjoying this at all. Struggling to control the game and keep coughing up the ball in crucial positions. Give me a 1 point win
Cox’s decisions have been, for the most part, Ted yellow aside, fine. But it’s the communication with the players that’s adding to an already scrappy game. Need to keep cool and manage that relationship in the second half. Can’t see us pulling away so need to be on the right side of the ref as might come down to some late decisions/penalties.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Cox’s decisions have been, for the most part, Ted yellow aside, fine. But it’s the communication with the players that’s adding to an already scrappy game. Need to keep cool and manage that relationship in the second half. Can’t see us pulling away so need to be on the right side of the ref as might come down to some late decisions/penalties.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Happy if we go old school and rumble it everywhere
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
FGS…. bad enough to lose the throw but then to compound it with a penalty
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
The amount of unforced errors is absolutely infuriating
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Holy hell that was a terrible call
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Drill them into the ground boys
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
We are dominant and yet don't look like scoring. Hopefully Spencer can have a ten minute burst to make the difference
Faintest whisper of a knock on in history
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:hasta
That yellow card period was managed impeccably.
Why can we play better with 14 than 15!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
You can talk about Exeter spirit but they are not a good team and we should have put them away far more comprehensively than we did.
That said, it’s wins like this where we find a way to get over the line that matter most.
Probably our worst 80 this season but got the job done.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
That said, it’s wins like this where we find a way to get over the line that matter most.
Probably our worst 80 this season but got the job done.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Bath a bit rusty but still worth the win. Bid fed up with the slightly sycophantic ‘plucky Exeter’ tripe from Warburton and co.
A poor 80 mins from us but a win is a win and we’re top of the league! TDT, Pepper and Muir were good. We need to sort the line out and I think Annett is perhaps first choice 2 after that.
I also think we should be thankful that we got to play Exeter now, as in a month or twos time, they’ll likely be even more cohesive. Hopefully they take some points off our competitors for the top 4.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I also think we should be thankful that we got to play Exeter now, as in a month or twos time, they’ll likely be even more cohesive. Hopefully they take some points off our competitors for the top 4.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
A pig of a game and fortunate to be playing Exeter with that level of performance.
Hopefully a case of knocking some rust off and we can get back to the right level quickly
Pepper the deserved player of the match with du Toit really earning his money covering both sides for 79 mins.
Thought Bayliss and Annett were both upgrades when they came on and even in a short time Barbeary’s carrying seemed to have the venom of last season back
Hopefully a case of knocking some rust off and we can get back to the right level quickly
Pepper the deserved player of the match with du Toit really earning his money covering both sides for 79 mins.
Thought Bayliss and Annett were both upgrades when they came on and even in a short time Barbeary’s carrying seemed to have the venom of last season back
Lineout improved when Ross Molony came on TdG is no scrum half! Bath looked rusty as identified by Finn Russell who pointed out that Exeter had been preparing for this game for 4 weeks. Likewise Newcastle v Sarries. It's a joy to listen to his post match comments.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Wasn't pretty but we fronted up and won, and ultimately that is all that matters.
Thought the praise for Exeter was warranted, best I've seen them play all season and back to their DNA.
Thought the praise for Exeter was warranted, best I've seen them play all season and back to their DNA.
And with that dire performance how do you think we would have got on had we have been playing Brizzle. @#$%& kicking time Mr VG.
Quote:Hugh Jarse
And with that dire performance how do you think we would have got on had we have been playing Brizzle. @#$%& kicking time Mr VG.
This week, badly next week a different story. We've played like that before after a break. It was a win when Saints and Series lost. Depends how Tigers go at Sale tomorrow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:11:30:22:29:25 by shipwrecked.
That was like ground hog day from the Bristol home game, we were mostly awful and lucky Exeter are a really poor team. We won though and that’s all that really matters.
I like Sara Cox as a ref, but thought she had a shocker today. So inconsistent and it was unbelievable that Bath had 3 yellow cards and Exeter none.
Respect to the ground staff as the pitch looked excellent and stood up really well considering the amount of rain recently.
I like Sara Cox as a ref, but thought she had a shocker today. So inconsistent and it was unbelievable that Bath had 3 yellow cards and Exeter none.
Respect to the ground staff as the pitch looked excellent and stood up really well considering the amount of rain recently.
There seemed to be a bit of confusion from the players as to how to address a female referee. At the end of the game Charlie appeared to have been apologising for getting it wrong (think he might have used her first name) and she just said she wouldn't be offended if they used sir.
I don’t take that performance as calmly as some. We were underprepared compared to Exeter but after many years of consistently struggling against them & generally losing we are now, or should be, in the ascendancy & be able to put them away far more comfortably. They are bottom of the league for a reason & I haven’t seen signs of them of them improving except in the Premiership Cup. Unless we raise our game quickly we will struggle against La Rochelle & won’t remain at the top of the table.
Quite nostalgic. Numerous knock-ons, stupid penalties and one out runners receiving the ball standing still. Like Bath of two years ago. Defence and scrum good and that was it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:01:00:57:08 by TomReagan.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:01:00:57:08 by TomReagan.
It just shows how easy it is to revert to the level of that time if the work isn’t put in & the minds aren’:t engaged as they need to be. Had we been playing Bristol or maybe even Gloucester yesterday we would have been turned over. We have only 6 days to show we are actually title contenders & not just also fans. Let’s hope it’s not a greasy ball !
Just watched the game after having watched Quins v Briz and, boy, I'm happy we weren't playing either of them! Disjointed, inaccurate and messy and we still won but our B game is a long way off our A game and that's a problem when it comes to actually winning stuff.
My MotM. Henry Slade. Made Exeter competitive from a position he almost never plays in a team which is currently on its ar$e, mentally speaking.
I thought Sara Cox was pretty good and David Rose was deeply patronising.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM. Henry Slade. Made Exeter competitive from a position he almost never plays in a team which is currently on its ar$e, mentally speaking.
I thought Sara Cox was pretty good and David Rose was deeply patronising.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Poor performance but a good result in the context of the weekend.
I would have played a few more who had been involved and done well in the prem Cup tbh.
Find it a bit frustrating that if there is a bit of rain it seems to validate awful handling and playing with no ambition- wouldnt happen with kiwi teams. Lawrence didn't get the ball til 70 mins, may aswell had his rest weekend. We won so end justified the means maybe.
Thought Sara cox did well- got the big calls right, hill yellow was v harsh but understandable given current interpretations. How to address a female ref with the due courtesy whilst not using 'sir' clearly still a challenge. Appreciate rosey came across as condescending once or twice but will give him benefit of the doubt that it was coming from a good place.
Thought exeter did deserve some credit personally. Nice to see fisalau go well- going to be v v good player. Always a pleasure to watch ifw. I seem to be a rare rob baxter fan- love him ans could listen to him all day. He was on board with the jvg mantra of never too high , never too low many years ago
I would have played a few more who had been involved and done well in the prem Cup tbh.
Find it a bit frustrating that if there is a bit of rain it seems to validate awful handling and playing with no ambition- wouldnt happen with kiwi teams. Lawrence didn't get the ball til 70 mins, may aswell had his rest weekend. We won so end justified the means maybe.
Thought Sara cox did well- got the big calls right, hill yellow was v harsh but understandable given current interpretations. How to address a female ref with the due courtesy whilst not using 'sir' clearly still a challenge. Appreciate rosey came across as condescending once or twice but will give him benefit of the doubt that it was coming from a good place.
Thought exeter did deserve some credit personally. Nice to see fisalau go well- going to be v v good player. Always a pleasure to watch ifw. I seem to be a rare rob baxter fan- love him ans could listen to him all day. He was on board with the jvg mantra of never too high , never too low many years ago
In terms of individual performances ...
Actually think for the way we play tdt is our most important squad member- he is insanely good. His ability to play both sides, go 80 mins and do damage in the tight and loose is incredible.
Pepper is a v v good player. Packs a punch for his size and v smart. I like reid at 8.
Bayliss was excellent off the bench. Backrow depth is nuts that he is your second bench option when you are already missing underhill and coetzee.
Hope alfie OK and it's just 1 game out- glad he got some game time in prem Cup. Fingers crossed jaco comes back in next week
Actually think for the way we play tdt is our most important squad member- he is insanely good. His ability to play both sides, go 80 mins and do damage in the tight and loose is incredible.
Pepper is a v v good player. Packs a punch for his size and v smart. I like reid at 8.
Bayliss was excellent off the bench. Backrow depth is nuts that he is your second bench option when you are already missing underhill and coetzee.
Hope alfie OK and it's just 1 game out- glad he got some game time in prem Cup. Fingers crossed jaco comes back in next week
It’s a sign of the changing times at Bath when you walk away from the Rec after having beaten Exeter, logged the 6th win out of 7 in the Premiership and still feel flat about it all! Yes, we made a lot of frustrating, and for this season uncharacteristic, handling errors and you can’t put all of that down to the very wet field conditions. For me, the most concerning aspect was butchering 3 attacking line outs on or around the Exeter 5mr line. Convert a couple of those and it all looks a bit different.
At the end of the day we fielded a team that hadn’t played together for 4 weeks and beat a team who pretty much had. Not pretty but job done and hopefully rust knocked off. I’m slightly paraphrasing but post match Finn said something like “it’s grinding out those results that get you to the big games at the end of the season”. Hopefully he’s right.
At the end of the day we fielded a team that hadn’t played together for 4 weeks and beat a team who pretty much had. Not pretty but job done and hopefully rust knocked off. I’m slightly paraphrasing but post match Finn said something like “it’s grinding out those results that get you to the big games at the end of the season”. Hopefully he’s right.
Quote:joethefanatic
I thought Sara Cox was pretty good and David Rose was deeply patronising.
Seriously? She’s a much better ref than she showed yesterday, like Bath she had an off day. Not surprised to hear Rose was patronising.
Hill’s yellow was incredibly harsh, no problem with the yellows for Spencer and Lawrence, but find it astonishing Exeter didn’t also have a couple of yellow cards. Very inconsistent.
Agree DL- and a belated thanks for the excellent preview.
Good point about the lineout.
Appreciate you can't win them all on your own ball, lots of things that can go wrong and the opposition can cause really issues..... but we seem to consistently lose important lineouts, yesterday in both attack and defence.
It's not ideal and could have cost us big time.
Agree with the interview with finn- it's take the win and move on territory. Was always going to be a challenging fixture after the break.
Very interested to see how we rotate over the next 3 weeks. I would rotate a fair bit personally- not wholesale changes but 5 or 6 changes to the starting xv each week
Good point about the lineout.
Appreciate you can't win them all on your own ball, lots of things that can go wrong and the opposition can cause really issues..... but we seem to consistently lose important lineouts, yesterday in both attack and defence.
It's not ideal and could have cost us big time.
Agree with the interview with finn- it's take the win and move on territory. Was always going to be a challenging fixture after the break.
Very interested to see how we rotate over the next 3 weeks. I would rotate a fair bit personally- not wholesale changes but 5 or 6 changes to the starting xv each week
Question for those who watched on tv.
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
Think we need to put perspective into that performance- most of the squad have not been together for 5 weeks - add to that Lee Blackett being away with England A and even JvG, JP, SS & RB having a break is our performance really that surprising- the same could be said of Sarries whereas Exeter players have been training and playing together throughout the Autumn period.
Thank god we manage to win and move on.
Thank god we manage to win and move on.
Quote:OutsideBath
Question for those who watched on tv.
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
I'd also be interested in this, at the time it felt like Slade's reputation for getting the ball out on the 5m line clouded the linesman's judgement.
Quote:joethefanatic
I thought Sara Cox was pretty good and David Rose was deeply patronising.
David Rose was driving me nuts on ref link, but I don't think it was a gender issue, he can tend to get over involved as a TMO and want to chat when a ref is concentrating on what's in front of them and doesn't have time for distracting chatter. We're developing a new generation of refs and there are a few who are not yet the finished article but it's not his job to do on the job coaching
Addressing a female ref - they need to decide on a convention and stick to it. The players just need to adapt, I'd suggest ma'am (rhymes with ham not palm) but as long as it's said from a position of respect.
Quote:OutsideBath
Question for those who watched on tv.
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
I thought it had gone dead watching on the tv.
I didn't see any of the game after Ted's yellow as had to go out (a rareity!!)
Weather was fine... dry and mild. If a damp pitch in November can be used as justification for an inability to catch we might as well make rugby a summer game. Just one of those evenings.
It wasn't just Bath though, both sides struggled.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:OutsideBath
Question for those who watched on tv.
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
I thought it had gone dead watching on the tv.
I didn't see any of the game after Ted's yellow as had to go out (a rareity!!)
Thanks DB, maybe one of the incidents when Rose should have interfered.
No one had a better view than the assistant ref and none of the bath players close to it protested even slightly.
Quote:hasta
No one had a better view than the assistant ref and none of the bath players close to it protested even slightly.
All of us in the crowd did.. 😁
We’re always giving plenty of advice to the officials, can’t believe they don’t ask our opinion on such important matters.. 😎
After the flamboyance of the Quins v Bristol match this game was guaranteed to disappoint. Evidence shows JVG has turned us into a team to be reckoned with, so I understand why some fans are critical, but in a 18 game season you are bound to grind out a win occasionally whilst being under par and that's what Bath did. It wasn't pretty but a lot of fans at the game appreciated that performance and the prize of a win. There was a great atmosphere at the Rec and fans, I feel, went away happy. Post matches discussions with fellow fans seemed quite positive. I do wonder if those that post negative comments have perhaps watched it on television. I guess after friday's spectacle this game fell well short.
Frustration from Rob Baxter……Here
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
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Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I was at the game and it was just awful to sit through. I thought many of the posters on here had watched it on TV and had the benefit of replays, punditry and angles whilst we at the ground sat through a turgid, error strewn, I'll disciplined display. To borrow from the preview it was the worst of times, it was darkness. Fans I spoke with afterwards thought it awful too but banked the win and moved on, just as JvG has done. There's much to improve b4 La Rochelle and I really hope it does or we will be blown away..
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Anyone know likely turnaround times from an injury like Ted's these days?
Looks like several stitches below the eyebrow and a completely closed eye.
Don't think there is any need to rush him back. Happy to see richards or bayliss get a go at 6.
Looks like several stitches below the eyebrow and a completely closed eye.
Don't think there is any need to rush him back. Happy to see richards or bayliss get a go at 6.
Quote:Clarkey3k
I was at the game and it was just awful to sit through. I thought many of the posters on here had watched it on TV and had the benefit of replays, punditry and angles whilst we at the ground sat through a turgid, error strewn, I'll disciplined display. To borrow from the preview it was the worst of times, it was darkness. Fans I spoke with afterwards thought it awful too but banked the win and moved on, just as JvG has done. There's much to improve b4 La Rochelle and I really hope it does or we will be blown away..
We felt the same way. On top of that we had the misfortune to be sitting next to 5 Exeter lads, one of whom had had a few too many. His mate apologised at half time, but we ended up leaving early. I enjoy a bit of banter, but this lad was a bit out of order. Maybe he was just over excited at seeing our Xmas sheds.
Quote:Clarkey3k
I was at the game and it was just awful to sit through. I thought many of the posters on here had watched it on TV and had the benefit of replays, punditry and angles whilst we at the ground sat through a turgid, error strewn, I'll disciplined display. To borrow from the preview it was the worst of times, it was darkness. Fans I spoke with afterwards thought it awful too but banked the win and moved on, just as JvG has done. There's much to improve b4 La Rochelle and I really hope it does or we will be blown away..
I take the point but La Rochelle are having a pretty average season: won 6 and lost 5. Lost at home to bottom of the table Vannes yesterday plus we’re at home. Very capable side but little evidence they’re what they were a couple of years back
Quote:Chiefs fan here. Watching on tv I was unsure as to whether the ball went dead or not but was very happy.with the decision, however if Henry had taken the kick from where the referee had indicated there would be no debate. Initially he was on the halfway line poised to take the kick when he was told to go back a couple of metres. He moved back as told but then after his run up he actually took the kick a couple of metres over the halfway line. This situation happens in almost every game but how do we prevent it happening? Maybe take an idea from football and let the referees use a foam spray to indicate where the kick should be taken from..OutsideBath
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
After all that I would like to congratulate your team for their performance, a reminder of the Chiefs of a few years ago where not playing at their best stuck together as a team and played for each other to grind out a win.
Best of luck for the rest of the season.
Quote:Clarkey3k
I was at the game and it was just awful to sit through. I thought many of the posters on here had watched it on TV and had the benefit of replays, punditry and angles whilst we at the ground sat through a turgid, error strewn, I'll disciplined display. To borrow from the preview it was the worst of times, it was darkness. Fans I spoke with afterwards thought it awful too but banked the win and moved on, just as JvG has done. There's much to improve b4 La Rochelle and I really hope it does or we will be blown away..
I watched on TV and I'd struggle to say what happened in the game. Especially the first half - just seemed to pass with nothing of note except a couple of lineout tries. Genuinely don't know how the refs managed to extract 40mins from between the procession of knock ons.
It certainly wasn't an advert for late night Sat games. We might have lost this game a couple of seasons agonand we didn't and like others said - take it and need to improve before next week.
It's amazing how we fans exchange such differing views on the same match. I'm sorry Clarkey and BW were so very critical of the game and there's no denying it was a poor performance from a team that can really do much better. I went to the game with the concern that there would be some rustiness and the worry that Exeter might end their winless start. Early on it was apparent the slippery conditions affected both teams so the tactics seemed to be kick and chase and powerplay. Certainly not very entertaining but I enjoyed the sense of jeopardy with both sides desperate to win. Despite Ted and Ben spending time in the bin Bath edged the win and I went home happy and so it seemed did fans around where I sit. I haven't watched it on tv yet but pretty sure it will be one to forget, nevertheless an important win.
Quote:Otter SupperQuote:Chiefs fan here. Watching on tv I was unsure as to whether the ball went dead or not but was very happy.with the decision, however if Henry had taken the kick from where the referee had indicated there would be no debate. Initially he was on the halfway line poised to take the kick when he was told to go back a couple of metres. He moved back as told but then after his run up he actually took the kick a couple of metres over the halfway line. This situation happens in almost every game but how do we prevent it happening? Maybe take an idea from football and let the referees use a foam spray to indicate where the kick should be taken from..OutsideBath
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
After all that I would like to congratulate your team for their performance, a reminder of the Chiefs of a few years ago where not playing at their best stuck together as a team and played for each other to grind out a win.
Best of luck for the rest of the season.
Thank you Otter a gracious comment to make. Good to read on your Forum that fans felt some positives from the game and aside from the usual points about Refs decisions it was nice to read that in the main, your fans felt Bath deserved the win.
I'm sure things will come good for you soon, best wishes.
Good luck for rest of season otter.
You have some class young players and hopefully will get back nearer to the cap in future seasons.
Definite signs of improvement yest and feel like in baxter you should always trust.
When is daffyd jenkins due back? Have enjoyed watching his development over the last few seasons.
You have some class young players and hopefully will get back nearer to the cap in future seasons.
Definite signs of improvement yest and feel like in baxter you should always trust.
When is daffyd jenkins due back? Have enjoyed watching his development over the last few seasons.
Strange old game; but given how other clubs who had used the Premiership Cup to blood squad players fared in the weekend then this certainly feels like a banana skin side-stepped.
We looked rusty but points be points and I feel this performance shows how much more confident and consistent we have become under JvG.
Our front row looks so solid now which favours us in the penalty count. Shame that Alfie, Jaco and Sam may not be with us for La Rochelle but our back row depth should give us a shout.
We looked rusty but points be points and I feel this performance shows how much more confident and consistent we have become under JvG.
Our front row looks so solid now which favours us in the penalty count. Shame that Alfie, Jaco and Sam may not be with us for La Rochelle but our back row depth should give us a shout.
Quote:Charlieboa1
Good luck for rest of season otter.
You have some class young players and hopefully will get back nearer to the cap in future seasons.
Definite signs of improvement yest and feel like in baxter you should always trust.
When is daffyd jenkins due back? Have enjoyed watching his development over the last few seasons.
Also if any Chiefs can enlighten it would be interesting to know the views of Slade at 10. Why is this? How is Joe Hawkins getting on, I thought he was 10 material, at least Gatland thought so?
Unless there’s a massive turnaround it looks like Leicester are about to slip on their banana skin fixture.
Perhaps (just perhaps) given that and other results it will give a bit more perspective on our win.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:01:16:44:43 by Toast and Marmite.
Perhaps (just perhaps) given that and other results it will give a bit more perspective on our win.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:01:16:44:43 by Toast and Marmite.
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Unless there’s a massive turnaround it looks like Leicester are about to slip on their banana skin fixture.
Perhaps (just perhaps) given that and other results it will give a bit more perspective on our win.
Banana skin auf zu geslippen.
Terrible game to watch, especially after the champagne rugby played by Bris and Quins the evening before! As others have said our lineout is a complete mess and Tom Dunn seems to have completely lost the plot! We had 3 pens in their half that were all kicked to the 5m line and then lost all 3 line-outs - 2 overthrows and a missed jump. If we’d scored from say 2 of them the match would’ve played out very differently ? Unacceptable really, and will certainly cost us dear against better opposition. Annett made a big difference when he came on, and should start for me.
Quote:Susanne
Addressing a female ref - they need to decide on a convention and stick to it. The players just need to adapt, I'd suggest ma'am (rhymes with ham not palm) but as long as it's said from a position of respect.
Referees use players’ names. Why can’t players just use refs’ names?
Quote:OutsideBath
Question for those who watched on tv.
The Slade kick for touch in the first half that led to the try looked like he kicked it dead and replay on big screen from our angle seemed to confirm this perception. What did you think?
On the live view (half way line camera) I thought it went dead but on the replay (camera behind the try line) it definitely looked like the kick was successful.
As others have noted, the touch judge was in the best position to see and none of our players complained, which is the most conclusive for me.
Quote:Was refereeing myself yesterday so only just watched the game. Have to say I have a lot of sympathy with RB, and when watching was surprised at SC question to the TMO so many seconds after the end of the play if that’s when she saw the grounding. The question asked would almost inevitably mean a try as not much chance a TV angle could provide a definitive overturn.Old Bath Tub
Frustration from Rob Baxter……Here
Quote:I recognise the value of 'winning ugly' and sometimes sides just don't quite perform - they're not automatons. I was a bit critical because the evening was very underwhelming. I'd actually have been far more phlegmatic if I had been watching the game on TV because it would have been a lot cheaper and I could have 'watched' the game, drunk Mulled cider and attempted the crossword. A few ST holders I was stood with took a certain good-humoured satisfaction in the fact that they hadn't forked out £70+ to stand and watch what was, partly for understandable reasons, a poor game.Francis Allen
I do wonder if those that post negative comments have perhaps watched it on television. I guess after friday's spectacle this game fell well short.
Quote:Francis Allen
I do wonder if those that post negative comments have perhaps watched it on television. I guess after friday's spectacle this game fell well short.
Not in my case. I said it as I saw it, perhaps without applying as much weight to the rustiness argument as others felt appropriate. I guess those are fair comments but I am expecting so much from our team. I believe we have to set our standards higher than what we saw on Saturday if we are going to win the Premiership & we have the best opportunity since I have been following the team. Exeter probably deserved to win that game. We were poor, pure & simple.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:02:04:53:37 by Bath Hammer.
Very productive weekend in terms of the league table, well done Bath. Lots of inaccuracy but no lack of effort. Good job we were only facing Exeter as most of the other teams in the league may have put us to the sword. Take the points and move on.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
BathMatt, I think most of us would agree that the Exeter game is best treated with a Finn Russell - esque shrug of the shoulders and a “job done move on” approach. I think I’d maybe take a slightly different view and say that most of the teams who won their matches this weekend may have put us to the sword. Sarries, Leicester, Northampton and Quins arguably all had worse days at the office than we did.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:02:09:21:32 by Devonport Lad.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:02:09:21:32 by Devonport Lad.
Quote:BathMatt53
Very productive weekend in terms of the league table, well done Bath. Lots of inaccuracy but no lack of effort. Good job we were only facing Exeter as most of the other teams in the league may have put us to the sword. Take the points and move on.
Certainly, have a shrug & move on, we have no other choice anyway. The problem is that when you turn in a performance that poor it’s not easy to just turn on a switch & revert to being a perfect rugby machine. Hopefully that is what will happen but there are a lot of things to work on & we need to stay ahead of the game to remain in the top two.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:02:09:36:06 by Bath Hammer.
I certainly don't see JVG as someone who will take those technical inaccuracies lying down (and neither are the players). I'm sure that it was just a function of a month away from each other and it will tighten back up until the 6N at least. It wasn't the best watch but I have to say I'm pretty chilled about it.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I feel pretty happy that we got the job done in the circumstances. There's a few key players there who could be excused for being a bit distracted. I'm sure it's been a tough month for Ben Spencer mentally. Russell was in Scotland playing for his country on Sunday and in Bath playing for his club 6 days later.
At no point did i think we were going to lose the game. That's a very big adjustment from just 2 years ago.
At no point did i think we were going to lose the game. That's a very big adjustment from just 2 years ago.
Just watched the highlights back and cannot see a reason for OL's yellow card...
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Quote:Bath Hammer
Exeter probably deserved to win that game. We were poor, pure & simple.
I agree that Bath were poor, but don't agree with your assessment that Exeter deserved to win the game. They were no better than Bath, neither side really deserved to win the game but Bath found a way to win. Good sides always find a way.
The worst part of Bath's performance for me was the amount of simple passes/high balls being dropped. Can't put that down to the players being rusty.
With all this talk of Bath being lucky to get the win, I do think that some people are putting a bit too much focus on our errors, and ignoring the fact that Exeter brought very little in terms of attacking play, which isn't that surprising with a 13 playing at fly half, and a completely new centre partnership.
Also whilst the team weren't at their best going forward, not conceding during those 2 yellow card periods deserves some significant credit if you ask me. Shutting them out so effectively makes a huge psychological difference, and must have given the players confidence that they could keep control of the match and get over the finish line.
Also whilst the team weren't at their best going forward, not conceding during those 2 yellow card periods deserves some significant credit if you ask me. Shutting them out so effectively makes a huge psychological difference, and must have given the players confidence that they could keep control of the match and get over the finish line.
Quote:plong
Just watched the highlights back and cannot see a reason for OL's yellow card...
There is an argument for penalising Feyi-Waboso:
"Tackled players must immediately:
a. Make the ball available so that play can continue by releasing, passing or pushing the ball in any direction except forward . They may place the ball in any direction ."
He was clearly not trying to make the ball available, but to get up and continue moving. His offence comes a split second before Lawrence makes contact.
To be fair, the wording of the tackle law is contradictory as it defines tackled and held by saying the tackle must continue to hold the tackled player, but then says he must release the tackled player as soon as he comes to ground.
PG
Wasn't the stated offence that OL was too quick and went off his feet at that breakdown with hands on the floor. Was IFW originally tackled before that though, if so he didn't release.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
F-W was clearly tackled and brought to ground by Russell. He then attempted to get up and continue running without releasing the ball.
PG
PG
Quote:P G Tips
F-W was clearly tackled and brought to ground by Russell. He then attempted to get up and continue running without releasing the ball.
PG
Does he have to be held though PG?
As I understand the Law and could easily be wrong the tackler has to hold the player with two arms to bring him to ground, as opposed to Finn knocking him to the ground with one arm say.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:02:16:54:21 by shipwrecked.
1.Yes
2. Finn did.
3. You can make your own judgement from the highlights on offy that plong references.
PG
2. Finn did.
3. You can make your own judgement from the highlights on offy that plong references.
PG
Just looked he did, as you say. I was referring to the tackle when he breaks the line by Pepper, I don't think Pepper held him there. Finn clearly did so IFW should have released. If OL supports his own weight the penalty goes the other way.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Given that Ollie tackled F-W and his upper body only made contact with the fround when Ex 13 pulled him over, I agree with plong.
PG
PG
Quote:hasta
No one had a better view than the assistant ref and none of the bath players close to it protested even slightly.
Probably still dazed and confused from the scrum pen decision going against TdT when Streeter had his legs stretched back beyond his no 8
From the highlights IFW was tackled & held so should have released the ball. He hung on & should have been penalised no matter what OL did.
Seemed clear in real time !!!!!
Seemed clear in real time !!!!!
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game. Anyway, some you get some you obviously don't, we'll be better when you visit SP, as I expect you will, so till then all the best.
Quote:Chief Bert
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game. Anyway, some you get some you obviously don't, we'll be better when you visit SP, as I expect you will, so till then all the best.
Did you think she had all the decisions right then Bert? IFW would have needed a box to catch that pass so I don't see that as a bad call.
For me she had a good game. However, I think she made one clear error and there was a controversial decision -both can be true at the same time.
The error was the Lawrence yellow, which should have been a penalty to Bath (so no LBP for Exeter).
The controversy- actually a team call as the TMO drew her attention to it- the Ted Hill yellow which was harsh given that he could not avoid the contact initiated by the carrier. I accept that the law does not really cover this kind of incident and she & her assistants acted within guidelines. That does not mean we have to agree with it.
PG
The error was the Lawrence yellow, which should have been a penalty to Bath (so no LBP for Exeter).
The controversy- actually a team call as the TMO drew her attention to it- the Ted Hill yellow which was harsh given that he could not avoid the contact initiated by the carrier. I accept that the law does not really cover this kind of incident and she & her assistants acted within guidelines. That does not mean we have to agree with it.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
For me she had a good game. However, I think she made one clear error and there was a controversial decision -both can be true at the same time.
The error was the Lawrence yellow, which should have been a penalty to Bath (so no LBP for Exeter).
The controversy- actually a team call as the TMO drew her attention to it- the Ted Hill yellow which was harsh given that he could not avoid the contact initiated by the carrier. I accept that the law does not really cover this kind of incident and she & her assistants acted within guidelines. That does not mean we have to agree with it.
PG
Completely agree. One or two other decisions I disagreed with, like the scrum pen against TdT were called by TMO or touchline ref
Quote:Chief Bert
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game. Anyway, some you get some you obviously don't, we'll be better when you visit SP, as I expect you will, so till then all the best.
What was wrong with our last try?
Referring to the penultimate one I'd assume. Questions over whether the grounding was seen. I can understand the Chiefs being a bit miffed by that one. The knock on...if the pass was heading into the hands of IFW that close to the line it would have been a pen try but the pass was high and he'd checked to take it, so cover was there. Overall I thought she was fine. The laws are so hard to make sense of that fans often seem to question referees these days. I'm perhaps biased in wanting her to succeed just to further annoy the sexist morons moaning on X and in the DT about women interfering in the men's game.
Yes. Ref said she saw grounding & TMO could see no reason to overrule her, but the camera angle did not show what she claimed to see, so I get the frustration over that one.
Agree about female refs. If good enough, gender is irrelevant.
PG
Agree about female refs. If good enough, gender is irrelevant.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
Yes. Ref said she saw grounding & TMO could see no reason to overrule her, but the camera angle did not show what she claimed to see, so I get the frustration over that one.
Agree about female refs. If good enough, gender is irrelevant.
PG
The issue I feel was she was on the wrong side and a way away. The fact that multiple Exeter players jumped on top might suggest that they wanted to obscure the view perhaps?
Quote:No, but then no supporter ever thinks that any ref gets all the decisions right during a game.shipwreckedQuote:Chief Bert
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game. Anyway, some you get some you obviously don't, we'll be better when you visit SP, as I expect you will, so till then all the best.
Did you think she had all the decisions right then Bert? IFW would have needed a box to catch that pass so I don't see that as a bad call.
They made just as much about the "cover" coming across, which was yards away, as they did about Manny not taking the pass, 2 points I disagree with.
Quote:P G Tips
Yes. Ref said she saw grounding & TMO could see no reason to overrule her, but the camera angle did not show what she claimed to see, so I get the frustration over that one.
Agree about female refs. If good enough, gender is irrelevant.
PG
I mean she saw the ball on the ground with the player on top of it. She didn't see the angle of it being grounded as it happened but she saw the outcome. And there was nothing to show that it wasn't done legitimately. That's the whole point of asking that question, I really don't see any issue with it. Rob Baxter certainly had a worse angle.
Quote:hastaQuote:P G Tips
Yes. Ref said she saw grounding & TMO could see no reason to overrule her, but the camera angle did not show what she claimed to see, so I get the frustration over that one.
Agree about female refs. If good enough, gender is irrelevant.
PG
I mean she saw the ball on the ground with the player on top of it. She didn't see the angle of it being grounded as it happened but she saw the outcome. And there was nothing to show that it wasn't done legitimately. That's the whole point of asking that question, I really don't see any issue with it. Rob Baxter certainly had a worse angle.
I think it was something like 10 years ago but there was a concerted effort by World Rugby to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side when deciding about pushover tries. (I seem to recall one England-Ireland international where a handful were ruled out due to lack of evidence).
It's interesting that the game has reverted back to the expectation that conclusive proof is required. Given the defending team get the drop-out that doesn't feel like a necessarily good expectation to place on the ref.
Does 'the game' expect that? Or does Rob Baxter expect it against his team? I don't see much complaint about most pushover tries.
Seriously Sara Cox looked at the ball after all the pushing and saw that it was on the ground with a Bath hand on top, then asked if there was any issues. No one had a closer view. I really don't understand why Baxter has raised this, it feels insanely uncontroversial to me.
Seriously Sara Cox looked at the ball after all the pushing and saw that it was on the ground with a Bath hand on top, then asked if there was any issues. No one had a closer view. I really don't understand why Baxter has raised this, it feels insanely uncontroversial to me.
I think that was the try where you could hear her on ref link telling (I presume) the Exeter players to get up one by one, as if she knew what they were doing and she wasn't having it. She was very clear in her question to Rosie - Spreaders used to say they are trained to back themselves when they are clear about their decisions and I think that's what she did
Quote:Chief Bert
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game.
No - the fact that Bath played better won them the game (or at least, Exeter continued their poor form).
Personally I thought that Sara Cox did fine. I don't particularly think that focussing on one thing here, one decision there is really worth doing. But having said that, I didn't see much wrong with either decision from a technical perspective. Moaning at refs / blaming them for losses has sadly become a thing in rugby.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
We have been on the end of some serious refereeing performances and I agree it really gripes you, I would add I think it hurts more as a supporter than actually as a player.
Ms Cox made quite a few decisions which personally I found strange - the Pepper 2nd try she clearly had a view of a grounding (the ball on the floor with downward pressure from a Bath player) actually you can clearly hear Du Toit and another pointing to a view which Ms Cox then went to before making her decision.
Was Spencer's action a definite try stopping action - no by the letter of the law - cover was there.
I could go on - Ted Hill that decision was an absolute joke - pure rugby incident but that was an officiating team rather than a referee decision, Du Toit had Steet on absolute toast and could have been a penalty every single scrum. Lawrence was extremely unlucky to be penalised which led to Chiefs last minute bonus point score - Russell made the tackle - Lawrence went around and came in from the back foot position - F-W failed to release the ball and Lawrence whilst on his feet lifted the ball before folding in as he was cleared out. Conditions on the field were not good - it was really wet although dry in the air.
Baxter and every single pundit whilst admitting Bath were not at their best felt Bath were the better side and fully deserved their win - so to try and blame Ms Cox for the loss is totally unevidenced and wrong. I wish Chiefs all the best for the rest of the season and I am sure things will improve - however your squad needs time to find itself and in this league time you don't have.
Best wishes in Europe it may just be your saviour to get players ticking in right positions, you have quality in certain positions but you are struggling in others - that does not detract from the fact this was a poor game which Bath playing poorly were still on the day too strong for Chiefs.
Ms Cox was not the reason Bath won, all in all given the conditions and how scrappy the game was she did well despite Slade permanently in her ear and is certainly one of the better officials on the circuit - hope she is given more high profile games .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:04:14:59:19 by Ali1969.
Ms Cox made quite a few decisions which personally I found strange - the Pepper 2nd try she clearly had a view of a grounding (the ball on the floor with downward pressure from a Bath player) actually you can clearly hear Du Toit and another pointing to a view which Ms Cox then went to before making her decision.
Was Spencer's action a definite try stopping action - no by the letter of the law - cover was there.
I could go on - Ted Hill that decision was an absolute joke - pure rugby incident but that was an officiating team rather than a referee decision, Du Toit had Steet on absolute toast and could have been a penalty every single scrum. Lawrence was extremely unlucky to be penalised which led to Chiefs last minute bonus point score - Russell made the tackle - Lawrence went around and came in from the back foot position - F-W failed to release the ball and Lawrence whilst on his feet lifted the ball before folding in as he was cleared out. Conditions on the field were not good - it was really wet although dry in the air.
Baxter and every single pundit whilst admitting Bath were not at their best felt Bath were the better side and fully deserved their win - so to try and blame Ms Cox for the loss is totally unevidenced and wrong. I wish Chiefs all the best for the rest of the season and I am sure things will improve - however your squad needs time to find itself and in this league time you don't have.
Best wishes in Europe it may just be your saviour to get players ticking in right positions, you have quality in certain positions but you are struggling in others - that does not detract from the fact this was a poor game which Bath playing poorly were still on the day too strong for Chiefs.
Ms Cox was not the reason Bath won, all in all given the conditions and how scrappy the game was she did well despite Slade permanently in her ear and is certainly one of the better officials on the circuit - hope she is given more high profile games .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:04:14:59:19 by Ali1969.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Chief Bert
Interesting that many of you thought that Ms Cox had a poor game, seems a bit short sighted given that 2 major calls went your way, your last try and our non penalty try, which arguably won you the game. Anyway, some you get some you obviously don't, we'll be better when you visit SP, as I expect you will, so till then all the best.
Did you think she had all the decisions right then Bert? IFW would have needed a box to catch that pass so I don't see that as a bad call.
Even Baxter said he didn't think IFW was going to catch the ball behind Spencer. I thought that, had the ball got as far as him, it was behind him anyway...
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
I thought the non- pen try was excellent officiating as would have been easy to just look at lack of cover but she recognised the pass would at best completely check and worsr sail into the hoardings
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