Bath
TEST IN THE WEST. BATH v EXETER CHIEFS
McConnochie: switch?
By PG Tips
March 2 2021
Bath Rugby’s resurgence and renewed confidence will be severely tested by Exeter Chiefs on Saturday. Having battled to three wins with nail-biting finishes, yielding a combined seven point victory margin, they must face the European and English champions, smarting from two successive defeats. Exeter have yet to find the form or consistency of last season, 3 of their 4 losses coming in the last six rounds. They will be desperate to end the slump and reassert their authority.
Neither side can claim, as they would wish, the title “best of the west.” Exeter have ceded that crown so far to Bristol who humbled them at home, while Bath, already heavily defeated by both Chiefs and Bristol made heavy weather of their recent victory over strugglers Gloucester. This is a matchup of 2nd v 10th, with home advantage blunted by the absence of crowds. Bath may be on a winning streak but Chiefs have not become a poor side overnight and are at their most dangerous immediately after a defeat. All the more motivation for them to remind Bath that they are the strongest team west of the Severn. The Six Nations rest weekend will be kinder to Exeter than Bath: they stand to gain Francis from Wales, Gray and Hogg from Scotland while Bath can hope only for the return of Taulupe Faletau. Exeter have notched 5 try bonus points so far to Bath’s 2, a clear measure of their superior accuracy in attack. This looks to be another steep hill for the hosts to climb.
Exeter have so many fine players that it is hard to narrow their threats to a few specific areas of the team. Indeed it is the power of the collective that has put them at the pinnacle of domestic and European rugby. Likely standouts up front could be Gray, the powerful Ewers and the all -action Sam Simmonds. Club captain Jack Yeandle though will probably miss out due to the red card he received last weekend against Sale. Behind the scrum the younger Simmonds, Joe is one of the two most consistently potent fly halves in the Premiership, already a captain of Chiefs at 24. Former Bath man Ollie Devoto provides the glue and go forward of the threequarters, while Hogg, O’Flaherty and Cordero bring the finishing firepower.
For Bath once again a key question hangs over selection. HIAs for Bayliss, captain for the day at Saints and Matavesi further threaten continuity in key areas. England still claim Obano, Stuart, Ewels and Watson while a raft of injuries means the matchday squad may again look cobbled together, rather than a planned selection. Coaches will hope for positive medical reports on McNally, Cokanasiga and De Glanville, while fans would like to see a chance for Bailey, more of Gray and a debut for Du Toit. If Saturday’s test is too soon for these three, perhaps they should be considered for one of the next two outings- to Newcastle or at home against Worcester. With Matavesi likely to be missing I would like to see Hats and Hoops continue the two playmaker style only with Schoeman at 12, allowing the impressive McConnochie free reign from fullback.
Bath built last Sunday’s single point win on character, guts, a few flashes of opportunism and considerable reserves of luck. These qualities, admirable though they are will not be enough against the relentlessness and power of Chiefs. Last ditch defence at Franklin’s gardens was heroic: first line porous dog legs less so. Extensive work is still needed on defence. Of equal importance is surprise attack to augment the determined but predictable close quarter forward grunt. McConnochie, Weir, Spencer and Joseph found gaps readily in the second half last week. Mercer and Reid were tireless in efforts to take the game forward. With Faletau cruising the wide channels as he did for Wales, better link work could bring more opportunities to get behind the defence.
None of these efforts will be possible though without the ball. Starved of possession for 30 minutes, Bath edged their way back in against Saints. Chiefs will not be so forgiving. Bath’s set piece needs to be more aggressive, more clinical. They will need to strike early as well as late to have a chance of victory. We have seen welcome signs of improvement, growing confidence and increased creativity. There is still though, much to be improved in all facets and phases. This could be the toughest yet test in the west.
Possible Teams:
Bath: Schoeman, Dunn, Thomas, Stooke, Ellis, Faletau, Reid, Mercer. Spencer (Capt.), Priestland. Muir, Schoeman, Joseph, Rokodoguni. McConnochie
Replacements: Bhatti, Walker, Judge, McNally, Staddon. Chudley, Bailey, Clark.
Exeter Chiefs: Hepburn, Innard, Williams, Gray, Skinner, Ewers, Capstick, Simmonds. Maunder, Simmonds (Capt.). O’Flaherty, Devoto, Whitten, Cordero. Hogg.
Replacements: Taione, Moon, Francis, Kirsten, Vermeulen. Townsend, Skinner, Woodburn.
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StumbleuponTEST IN THE WEST. BATH v EXETER CHIEFS. TEAM NOW UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 02/03/2021 14:33
02/03/2021 14:33
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:09:16:37:10 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:09:16:37:10 by P G Tips.
I think it is right for England to keep the starters from the Wales game but should return the finishers who hardly saw any time on the pitch. They would probably benefit.
Think the entire England squad have to remain in the England bubble. So as good as it would be for Obano, Stuart, Ewels to get a game, they’re sadly not allowed.
I'm not sure about "west of the Severn". Isn't that Wales?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:joethefanatic
I'm not sure about "west of the Severn". Isn't that Wales?
Easy tiger, there's plenty west of the Severn that ain't Wales!
Granted, Bath and Exeter aren't in this area.
Quote:P G Tips
OK guys -South West of the Severn!
PG
☺
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:dr.bath1865
Think the entire England squad have to remain in the England bubble. So as good as it would be for Obano, Stuart, Ewels to get a game, they’re sadly not allowed.
That sounds sensible but how come the Welsh and Scottish bubbles are allowed to be burst for a weekend?
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:dr.bath1865
Think the entire England squad have to remain in the England bubble. So as good as it would be for Obano, Stuart, Ewels to get a game, they’re sadly not allowed.
That sounds sensible but how come the Welsh and Scottish bubbles are allowed to be burst for a weekend?
Because their dreams will fade and die?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
The RFU have a deal with the Premiership for player access. The other Unions do not outside designated international dates
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Because they don’t pay for the release of there players on rest weekends unlike England
Think you guys have a good chance of turning Exeter over if you carry on playing the same as your last couple of games
If everybody in the line up above is fir I would start McNally and Bhatti. Need plenty of size against Exeter and having 2 proper 2nd rows makes a big difference at scrum time. I though Bhatti's scrummaging was better than Schoeman last week so think he and Thomas deserve a chance to start.
Quote:Mike the Taxi
But parts of Bath and Bristol are South of the A4
As I understand it, the idea is to define an area including Bath and Exeter but not including Bristol.
Upon closer inspection Ashton gate is South of the A4 so back to the drawing board!
Quote:malco
I think we might get Redpath back in time.
Is that blind optimism malco? Hoops did seem to imply he was back up and running around a few wks ago I think?
I was wondering/hoping will spencer may be close. Sure hoops said he was about 6 weeks away about a month ago and he tends to be overly cautious when sharing timeliness.
Also underhill was discussed at one stage as potentially being in the mix for the Wales game?
Any idea what the injuries are to mcnally and tdg? I am placing stock in a vague memory of hoops saying they don't give updates where they are just knocks likely to keep people out for a few weeks. Did i imagine that?
I can't see bayliss being right after 6 days so faletau back is well timed. Matavesi looked in a bad way, again can't see him being fine after 6 days. Assume they will put clark or schoeman at 12.
It's strange that in the last 2 games bath have beaten sale and Northampton and Exeter have lost to the same 2 teams. You could say we are the form team!
My big concern is the front row and the set piece, we can not concede penalties and give away possession against Exeter and let them spend time in our 22 doing their belly shuffles to the line. I worry about Thomas playing as he does seem to have become a bit of a penalty magnet.
It would be great if redpath is back
My big concern is the front row and the set piece, we can not concede penalties and give away possession against Exeter and let them spend time in our 22 doing their belly shuffles to the line. I worry about Thomas playing as he does seem to have become a bit of a penalty magnet.
It would be great if redpath is back
I presume Jack Yeandle is banned and LCD isn't available due to the England bubble so Exeter will be down to their 3rd and 4th choice hookers, which should help a bit. But having at least a couple of specialist locks available to us would be nice. Faletau versus Sam Simmonds will be worth the admission fee on its own. However, if we give Exeter a 16 point lead, I very much doubt we'd be coming back from that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Hmmmmm, my Exonian spies sorry contacts are getting a bit worried!
First time for many a season they have been 'worried' about Bath.
However, if the wind blows in from the west up the Exe, can be a tricky place to get a win.
First time for many a season they have been 'worried' about Bath.
However, if the wind blows in from the west up the Exe, can be a tricky place to get a win.
The game will be played on the banks of the Avon annie -not the Ex.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Front 5 match up, esp schoeman vs williams/francis, is a major concern.
They had beno in massive trouble and Exeter pretty ruthless at targeting weaknesses. Let's hope its not a penalty try fest.
Agree with the above that bhatti seems to be the better scrummagee so may needs to play the bulk of the minutes. Having mcnally and/or spencer back would be a big boost.
They had beno in massive trouble and Exeter pretty ruthless at targeting weaknesses. Let's hope its not a penalty try fest.
Agree with the above that bhatti seems to be the better scrummagee so may needs to play the bulk of the minutes. Having mcnally and/or spencer back would be a big boost.
Quote:charlieboa
Front 5 match up, esp schoeman vs williams/francis, is a major concern.
They had beno in massive trouble and Exeter pretty ruthless at targeting weaknesses. Let's hope its not a penalty try fest.
Agree with the above that bhatti seems to be the better scrummagee so may needs to play the bulk of the minutes. Having mcnally and/or spencer back would be a big boost.
Harry Williams is getting pinged a lot for being too long-legged in the scrum at the moment. Let's hope Sir has been doing his homework.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Both my son's have played Tight head at a good level and both say a lot depends on the power coming through from the second row regarding who dominates the scrummaging, so would be great to have Mcnally and Spencer available.
isnt harry williams part of the england squad and therefore in the bubble?
He played 53 minutes for Chiefs last Friday.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Sounds like some eng players who haven't had much game time will be released back to clubs?
Obano and ewels would be a huge bonus, even if its just off the bench.
Obano and ewels would be a huge bonus, even if its just off the bench.
Quote:charlieboa
Sounds like some eng players who haven't had much game time will be released back to clubs?
Obano and ewels would be a huge bonus, even if its just off the bench.
Yes- confirmed on Beeb: [www.bbc.co.uk]
That could well mean Obano. Perhaps Ewels with Ribbans now called up. Either/both would be most welcome.
Agree Ex cannot count on any releases.
PG
Excellent to hear. What a boost any/all of Stuart, Obano and Ewels would be.
Surely it's been decided already who can return to their clubs? Having not been around for over a month, you'd have thought they'd want to have more than 1 day of training.
But hey ho, whatever Eddie thinks is best.
Surely it's been decided already who can return to their clubs? Having not been around for over a month, you'd have thought they'd want to have more than 1 day of training.
But hey ho, whatever Eddie thinks is best.
If they are in a bubble, I presume they are in a hotel room, limited contact masks, tests etc. How long are they expected to be in that bubble then, the whole 6N period? Its hard enough being at home!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I assume the bubble thing has popped if they are being allowed back to play games. They were also allowed back to their families the weekend before last according to RUW.
Official statement:
[www.englandrugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:03:15:31:17 by BathMatt53.
Official statement:
[www.englandrugby.com]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:03:15:31:17 by BathMatt53.
Guess we will know in a few hours but wonder if squad will look something like this:
Rmc
Roko
JJ
Schoeman
Muir
Rhys
Spencer
Bhatti
Dunn
Thomas
Mcnally
Stooke
Faletau
Reid
Mercer
Bench: obano , walker, Stuart, ewels, Ellis, chudley, clark, gray
Rmc
Roko
JJ
Schoeman
Muir
Rhys
Spencer
Bhatti
Dunn
Thomas
Mcnally
Stooke
Faletau
Reid
Mercer
Bench: obano , walker, Stuart, ewels, Ellis, chudley, clark, gray
If that's the 23 Charlie, then we really should push Exeter close in this game. Ewels was in Bath yesterday, so I'm guessing he's definitely in the mix.
I'd be inclined to start Beno and Stuart. It's not as if they are 2 of the Internationals who don't quite seem to deliver for us. They are Bath rocks week in, week out.
I'd hate to 'drop' Reid given how he has stepped up and performed - but I also don't want to see him over-played, and a role off the bench could be the best of both worlds for him and us?
I'd be inclined to start Beno and Stuart. It's not as if they are 2 of the Internationals who don't quite seem to deliver for us. They are Bath rocks week in, week out.
I'd hate to 'drop' Reid given how he has stepped up and performed - but I also don't want to see him over-played, and a role off the bench could be the best of both worlds for him and us?
Would love to see that 23 charlie, but like Opti I'd be inclined to start the internationals up front.
Despite the win last week, our scrum got hammered. I think Saints caused problems for Exeter at the scrum, so no shame in it, but we might have a chance to get at the Exe scrum if we go full bore from minute one. Having McNally fit is huge. A carrier, a scrummager, a lineout option, another leader. Our front five looks transformed (obviously) with McN, Ewels and Stooke available.
One problem is that with no Bayliss or Underhill, we have no threat on the floor, other than Reid, which against Exeter, when they go phase after phase, can be a big miss. So I'd start Reid for this reason, and Redpath if fit, but we'll need another MotM from Faletau to slow them. Chron hints Underhill isn't far away, but likely not fit this weekend. Wonder if he'll sneak onto the bench?
I'd go:
TdG if fit (McCon if not), Roko, JJ, Redpath if fit (Matavesi if fit, TS if not, Muir, RP, Spencer
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, McNally, Ewels, Faletau, Reid, Mercer
Walker, Bhatti, Judge, Stooke, Underhill/Ellis, Chudley, Clark, GH-W.
Despite the win last week, our scrum got hammered. I think Saints caused problems for Exeter at the scrum, so no shame in it, but we might have a chance to get at the Exe scrum if we go full bore from minute one. Having McNally fit is huge. A carrier, a scrummager, a lineout option, another leader. Our front five looks transformed (obviously) with McN, Ewels and Stooke available.
One problem is that with no Bayliss or Underhill, we have no threat on the floor, other than Reid, which against Exeter, when they go phase after phase, can be a big miss. So I'd start Reid for this reason, and Redpath if fit, but we'll need another MotM from Faletau to slow them. Chron hints Underhill isn't far away, but likely not fit this weekend. Wonder if he'll sneak onto the bench?
I'd go:
TdG if fit (McCon if not), Roko, JJ, Redpath if fit (Matavesi if fit, TS if not, Muir, RP, Spencer
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, McNally, Ewels, Faletau, Reid, Mercer
Walker, Bhatti, Judge, Stooke, Underhill/Ellis, Chudley, Clark, GH-W.
McConnoghie is virtually first name on the teamsheet for me (well apart from Obano, Dunn, Faletau, Spencer and Priestland who are also the first name on my teamsheet).
Quote:Optimist
McConnoghie is virtually first name on the teamsheet for me (well apart from Obano, Dunn, Faletau, Spencer and Priestland who are also the first name on my teamsheet).
I prefer McConnochie to be honest.
Looks good Charlieboa. I'd be tempted to leave obano and Stuart on the bench and follow italys tactics of change at 30 mins. I feel it may throw the opposition and they could really provide some power late in the game. I believe we could also replace them with starting props if injured. Chiefs likely to be a lot stringer than against Northampton as gray and Francis add so much to their scrum and driving maul.
I love McC at 15 but if TdG fit would go TdG, McC and Muir back 3.
Would also like to see Staddon on bench as thought he was awesome last week. Poss go 6/2 split.
I love McC at 15 but if TdG fit would go TdG, McC and Muir back 3.
Would also like to see Staddon on bench as thought he was awesome last week. Poss go 6/2 split.
I would imagine if the England contingent are fit and given the previous example this year - i.e. post Worcester when we came off our first victory of the season - Hoops changed the winning team and installed all the returning Internationals.
To be fair in this case there are players at present who are being held together by plasters and pain killing injections so changes for players who have had next to no rugby for the past 6 weeks makes sense providing they are up to speed - remember they become unavailable again no matter what next week - so protect some of the other players who will need to fill in again.
If fit and available personally I would go for:
RMC
Roko
JJ
Schoeman
Muir
Rhys
Spencer
Obano
De Toit
Stuart
Ewels
Stooke
Talupe
Reid
Mercer
Reps:
Bhatti, Dunn, Thomas, McNally, Ellis, Chudley, Clark/Redpath, TDG
To be fair in this case there are players at present who are being held together by plasters and pain killing injections so changes for players who have had next to no rugby for the past 6 weeks makes sense providing they are up to speed - remember they become unavailable again no matter what next week - so protect some of the other players who will need to fill in again.
If fit and available personally I would go for:
RMC
Roko
JJ
Schoeman
Muir
Rhys
Spencer
Obano
De Toit
Stuart
Ewels
Stooke
Talupe
Reid
Mercer
Reps:
Bhatti, Dunn, Thomas, McNally, Ellis, Chudley, Clark/Redpath, TDG
Conscious exe often come on very strong in last 20 so quite like the idea of a strong bench. As at saints if scrum is struggling nice to bring on good options to change that picture.
True Charlie - but it's not like they start weak and come on strong!
WellyBathChief: 'Poss go 6/2 split' - IMHO ... no, never, not ever, jamas, nunca, niente, jamais ..... one of the worst strategies ever (and no, not the reason why SA won the World Cup, IMHO) - unless you've got a very genuine 6/12 hybrid player ....... whatever happened to that big lad we had a couple of years back??
WellyBathChief: 'Poss go 6/2 split' - IMHO ... no, never, not ever, jamas, nunca, niente, jamais ..... one of the worst strategies ever (and no, not the reason why SA won the World Cup, IMHO) - unless you've got a very genuine 6/12 hybrid player ....... whatever happened to that big lad we had a couple of years back??
Quote:Optimist
True Charlie - but it's not like they start weak and come on strong!
WellyBathChief: 'Poss go 6/2 split' - IMHO ... no, never, not ever, jamas, nunca, niente, jamais ..... one of the worst strategies ever (and no, not the reason why SA won the World Cup, IMHO) - unless you've got a very genuine 6/12 hybrid player ....... whatever happened to that big lad we had a couple of years back??
Someone like Alex Gray who is now a back but was a class back row player??
Possibly. But - amongst the many Eddy’isms that annoy me, is the notion that rugby needs hybrid players now, at the time when you have 8 subs on the bench - over half a team! What did he think happened when you had 1, 2, 3 subs etc? Never in the history of the game has there been less of a need for hybrid players. Versatility? Great. Itoje, Lawes, Farrell, Slade, Daly... very handy. A hooker who can do a job in the back row? Could come in handy once in a blue moon. But Earls on the wing or at centre? Just put another wing or centre on the bench.
Team up. Pretty strong:
Bath Rugby side to face Exeter Chiefs
15. Tom de Glanville, 14. Ruaridh McConnochie, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Josh Matavesi, 11. Will Muir, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Henry Thomas, 4. Josh McNally ©, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Toby Faletau, 7. Sam Underhill, 8 Zach Mercer
Replacements
16. Jack Walker, 17. Jamie Bhatti, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Tom Ellis, 20. Miles Reid, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Tian Schoeman, 23. Joe Cokanasiga
PG
Bath Rugby side to face Exeter Chiefs
15. Tom de Glanville, 14. Ruaridh McConnochie, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Josh Matavesi, 11. Will Muir, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Henry Thomas, 4. Josh McNally ©, 5. Elliott Stooke, 6. Toby Faletau, 7. Sam Underhill, 8 Zach Mercer
Replacements
16. Jack Walker, 17. Jamie Bhatti, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Tom Ellis, 20. Miles Reid, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Tian Schoeman, 23. Joe Cokanasiga
PG
PG got there first!
Good looking team, glad that TdG is back, still not sure about JM at 12 (defence in particular). Big boost to have McNally, Underhill and Faletau back and ease the pressure on some of the youngesters.
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:12:04:34 by BathMatt53.
Good looking team, glad that TdG is back, still not sure about JM at 12 (defence in particular). Big boost to have McNally, Underhill and Faletau back and ease the pressure on some of the youngesters.
COYB!!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:12:04:34 by BathMatt53.
EXETER CHIEFS SIDE TO FACE BATH RUGBY
15 Stuart Hogg
14 Facundo Cordero
13 Ian Whitten
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Tom O’Flaherty
10 Joe Simmonds (capt)
9 Jack Maunder
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Jack Innard
3 Harry Williams
4 Jonny Gray
5 Sam Skinner
6 Dave Ewers
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Sam Simmonds
16 Elvis Taione
17 Ben Moon
18 Tomas Francis
19 Sean Lonsdale
20 Jannes Kirsten
21 Stu Townsend
22 Harvey Skinner
23 Tom Hendrickson
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
15 Stuart Hogg
14 Facundo Cordero
13 Ian Whitten
12 Ollie Devoto
11 Tom O’Flaherty
10 Joe Simmonds (capt)
9 Jack Maunder
1 Alec Hepburn
2 Jack Innard
3 Harry Williams
4 Jonny Gray
5 Sam Skinner
6 Dave Ewers
7 Jacques Vermeulen
8 Sam Simmonds
16 Elvis Taione
17 Ben Moon
18 Tomas Francis
19 Sean Lonsdale
20 Jannes Kirsten
21 Stu Townsend
22 Harvey Skinner
23 Tom Hendrickson
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Good team. Personally would have liked to see schoeman at 12 to see what he can do. Hard on Reid being dropped but he is young and could do with a rest so makes sense if underhill is fit. Also sad to see Staddon not in 23 but his day will come. Is Roko injured? If not I assume Cokanasiga is on fire in training as I've not seen anything in the last 12 months to justify inclusion over Roko.
Everything about that side makes sense .... but it pretty much always does on paper.
What a back-row! What a back 3.
Great to see Henry Thomas back in the starting line-up - he has looked a bit more active with each passing week, so will do him the world of good if he can get through 50 tough minutes.
And let's just hope that big Joe can get a bit of a rampage under his belt early on to build his confidence. If I was Hooper I would be bringing him on at a point in the game and a place on the pitch where we are attacking. The last thing he needs is to get caught out in defence early in his stint.
That's a blooky strong Exeter squad. I'll settle for a decent coherent performance and a good game of rugby to watch. The last 3 games I was (mistakenly) indifferent to watching - but that was the result of the Bris/Exe games and at the time felt as though the ship was fatally holed.
And finally - Rhys - the final 30 against Saints is the template. If Finn Russell had thrown that huge cut-out pass to put McConnochie away on the right there would be a 4-page analysis of it somewhere. More of the same!
What a back-row! What a back 3.
Great to see Henry Thomas back in the starting line-up - he has looked a bit more active with each passing week, so will do him the world of good if he can get through 50 tough minutes.
And let's just hope that big Joe can get a bit of a rampage under his belt early on to build his confidence. If I was Hooper I would be bringing him on at a point in the game and a place on the pitch where we are attacking. The last thing he needs is to get caught out in defence early in his stint.
That's a blooky strong Exeter squad. I'll settle for a decent coherent performance and a good game of rugby to watch. The last 3 games I was (mistakenly) indifferent to watching - but that was the result of the Bris/Exe games and at the time felt as though the ship was fatally holed.
And finally - Rhys - the final 30 against Saints is the template. If Finn Russell had thrown that huge cut-out pass to put McConnochie away on the right there would be a 4-page analysis of it somewhere. More of the same!
McC and Muir on the wings....Nice!!!
Give them the ball!!!
Whats up with Will Stuart?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:12:28:39 by woodpecker.
Give them the ball!!!
Whats up with Will Stuart?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:12:28:39 by woodpecker.
Strong team. The weather looks good so should be fun, although could someone please steal Hogg's boots, as he's in the form of his life.
The most experienced pack we've had in a while. Huge boost Underhill is back. Good to see Thomas starting. Nice to see him towards the end of the match last week dishing out the instructions and firing up the pack. He's been around a long while, missed a lot through injury, but should still have plenty in the tank in terms of his career. If he can begin to string together some performances, he'll be worth the new contract he's playing for. He was England material not sooo long ago...
Great to see the 2 England 7s wingers in tandem. Fly boys fly. Hopefully, JJ is beginning to get his groove back. As good a player as Whitten is, of all the 13s in the Prem, surely JJ has the pace to beat him with his outside break??? Just need one of those long Rhys passes to put him into the space, a la Ford --> Slade last weekend.
Score prediction? Who knows. Like Opti, I'd take a good performance, but nothing will surprise me, given how unpredictable we are.
The most experienced pack we've had in a while. Huge boost Underhill is back. Good to see Thomas starting. Nice to see him towards the end of the match last week dishing out the instructions and firing up the pack. He's been around a long while, missed a lot through injury, but should still have plenty in the tank in terms of his career. If he can begin to string together some performances, he'll be worth the new contract he's playing for. He was England material not sooo long ago...
Great to see the 2 England 7s wingers in tandem. Fly boys fly. Hopefully, JJ is beginning to get his groove back. As good a player as Whitten is, of all the 13s in the Prem, surely JJ has the pace to beat him with his outside break??? Just need one of those long Rhys passes to put him into the space, a la Ford --> Slade last weekend.
Score prediction? Who knows. Like Opti, I'd take a good performance, but nothing will surprise me, given how unpredictable we are.
The front row won't lack for grunt behind them anyway. Though they might tire lifting if there are too many lineouts. That is a mighty pack.
Quote:hasta
I see it more as Bayliss needing a rest.
He has been off for a lot of HIAs this season, young lad so happy to let him rest his noggin.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
where is stuart? hardly played in the last 2 england games. the boy needs some game time.
a goodish side from bath though henry and matavesi look a bit vulnerable.
their team is very strong with just the young lad at hooker looking like a possible weak link. they are clearly desperate to win after stuttering in recent games.
no sign of du toit on the bench which is a pity. like others i am keen to see TS at 12 (hard to see him at 10 with rhys playing so well).
a goodish side from bath though henry and matavesi look a bit vulnerable.
their team is very strong with just the young lad at hooker looking like a possible weak link. they are clearly desperate to win after stuttering in recent games.
no sign of du toit on the bench which is a pity. like others i am keen to see TS at 12 (hard to see him at 10 with rhys playing so well).
Hogg hasn't had a major blunder in about two games, so he's definitely overdue
Like the look of our back row. I hope Zac’s blisters are ok they looked pretty epic. I’m happy that we have cover with Reid and Ellis. Baylis definitely needed a rest after another HIA.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:hasta
I see it more as Bayliss needing a rest.
He has been off for a lot of HIAs this season, young lad so happy to let him rest his noggin.
Yep, hats said he wasn't in the mix due to head knock. Player welfare cited.
Interesting that matavesi is in, looked in a terrible state
Think he may also have been a bit knackered Charlie! He's a big lad and the game was being played at pace.
Quote:Dorset Boy
That's stronger than expected.
True but on a head to head match up I can see only 5 places where we have the edge and then you factor in the Exeter wholism and I really struggle to see anything other than a comfortable win for the chiefs
But then just as well I'm not giving the pre-match pep talk
Well gaz - it might be the spur they need!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:13:53:21 by P G Tips.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:05:13:53:21 by P G Tips.
True Gaz, but since Xmas they have lost to Sale, Saints, Bris, just beat Worcester and Glos, stuffed by Wasps. They have looked pretty exhausted after their lack of break after last seasons exploits and certainly not the Exeter of last season. Of course it will all come together at some point but the other teams have shown that they are beatable.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
This is an opportunity if we can carry over the attitude from the Saints game. I hope the incoming players, although stronger on paper, do not disrupt a fantastic team spirit that has been established.
I do too B4B, but of the 4 new to the starting XV McNally has been a regular when fit and Faletau played 2 weeks ago v Glos.
Importantly they must be aware of that team spirit and will know they need to take nothing for granted as the "deputies" are playing themselves up the rankings.
PG
Importantly they must be aware of that team spirit and will know they need to take nothing for granted as the "deputies" are playing themselves up the rankings.
PG
I think we can edge it up front if all our returning players are indeed fit, and it's been a while since I have thought that ahead of an Exeter game. We are well due some good luck against them after what has happened the last couple of times we have played them.
Quote:BathMatt53
True Gaz, but since Xmas they have lost to Sale, Saints, Bris, just beat Worcester and Glos, stuffed by Wasps. They have looked pretty exhausted after their lack of break after last seasons exploits and certainly not the Exeter of last season.
But they are still 2nd in the table.
Quote:malco
I think we can edge it up front if all our returning players are indeed fit, and it's been a while since I have thought that ahead of an Exeter game. We are well due some good luck against them after what has happened the last couple of times we have played them.
I like the positivism there malco, I so hope you're right
Quote:Sorries2020Quote:BathMatt53
True Gaz, but since Xmas they have lost to Sale, Saints, Bris, just beat Worcester and Glos, stuffed by Wasps. They have looked pretty exhausted after their lack of break after last seasons exploits and certainly not the Exeter of last season.
But they are still 2nd in the table.
They are indeed, but last season they were untouchable and since Christmas they haven't been. There is at least some hope!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:woodpecker
Wow imagine people saying we could beat Exeter 4 weeks ago!
Exe are double champs and quite obviously start as clear favorites, but I would certainly hope with that team that we can make them earn any win.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Bonus point win tomorrow...............for Bath ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Given Exeter's collective ruck clear out techniques, I strongly doubt that this will finish 15 v 15. Do we know who Sir is?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Referee: Tom Foley (90th Premiership game)
Assistants: Greg Macdonald & Paul Dix
TMO: Geoff Warren
Citing Officer: Buster White
Assistants: Greg Macdonald & Paul Dix
TMO: Geoff Warren
Citing Officer: Buster White
Quote:CoochieCoo
Referee: Tom Foley (90th Premiership game)
Assistants: Greg Macdonald & Paul Dix
TMO: Geoff Warren
Citing Officer: Buster White
Not the most authoritative of the current crop... but Dix is pretty interventional and Warren is a decent TMO.
I'll go 2 reds (one each) and 3 yellows.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Slightly wrong thread, but anyone know why in the footage of the squad in training they’re not at Farleigh House?
The same venue has been used for a couple of weeks and not sure where it is or why it’s being used.
Farleigh ran out of moisturiser? Lol. I miss BoB.
The same venue has been used for a couple of weeks and not sure where it is or why it’s being used.
Farleigh ran out of moisturiser? Lol. I miss BoB.
Quote:dr.bath1865
Slightly wrong thread, but anyone know why in the footage of the squad in training they’re not at Farleigh House?
The same venue has been used for a couple of weeks and not sure where it is or why it’s being used.
Farleigh ran out of moisturiser? Lol. I miss BoB.
BathMatt knows!
Quote:dr.bath1865
Slightly wrong thread, but anyone know why in the footage of the squad in training they’re not at Farleigh House?
The same venue has been used for a couple of weeks and not sure where it is or why it’s being used.
Farleigh ran out of moisturiser? Lol. I miss BoB.
They’ve been using the 4g up at Odd Down quite a lot - full-size pitch, not much else going on up there currently.
They will need all the moisturiser they can get after training in the biting wind up there!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Very interesting that 99% of you where calling for hooper to be sacked. Seems to me like theres too many fair weather "fans" who change their mind every day
Quote:ollyshep
Very interesting that 99% of you where calling for hooper to be sacked. Seems to me like theres too many fair weather "fans" who change their mind every day
They will no doubt be back tomorrow.
Weather forecast is fairly calm - always bang on about the crosswind up the Exe Estuary for goalkickers, but hopefully ok. Bally freezing again today mind!
Be interesting to see how last week's win has affected Bath's team spirits.
Be interesting to see how last week's win has affected Bath's team spirits.
That Exe Valley breeze will have to blow some to affect the kicking tomorrow Annie! As to the Hooper out thing, many are willing to give him time, regardless of recent results and will remain so if we get stuffed tomorrow.
Quote:TomReagan
That Exe Valley breeze will have to blow some to affect the kicking tomorrow Annie! As to the Hooper out thing, many are willing to give him time, regardless of recent results and will remain so if we get stuffed tomorrow.
I have just about managed to remain in the 'give him time' group over the last 3 months.
We have tried chopping and changing , seems little point in making a long term appointment to shape the club in his own vision if you are going to just sack him after a bad couple of months.
Still believe we are a v good coach light but let's see if dave williams helps.basic handling and passing skills desperately need to improve.
I really like what I am seeing in terms of the academy and to an extent recruitment. If the coaches can get it right we have a v young, exciting squad.
As you say even if today is a bit ugly I won't change my mind but it would be a worry as the squad looks decent on paper and ex missing a few aswell.we need to start closing the gap, some games against them over last few seasons have been genuinely embarrassing.
Quote:annie blackthorn
Weather forecast is fairly calm - always bang on about the crosswind up the Exe Estuary for goalkickers, but hopefully ok. Bally freezing again today mind!
Be interesting to see how last week's win has affected Bath's team spirits.
Annie
The game will be played in bath- as per the title above -and as stated 4 days ago!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Definitely agree about coaching situation Charlieboa. Not sure Hats was better left as forwards coach and feel he was promoted a bit early through lack of a stronger available candidate. As you say, a lot will depend on Williams. Just feel our struggles easy to pin on DOR rather than general coaching structure. As to today much will come down to how much self-belief the team really has. Recent signs are encouraging but you don't develop a hard winning mindset on the back of 3 narrow wins, however good it was to win those tight matches.
Hats was 3 years scrum coach for England. He came back to Bath as forwards coach but, I'd have thought, was bound to have the chance of promotion as a component of his return. I thought that it was Girvans to lose - as he had the team up until the world cup was finished. Sadly, that didn't work out too well - and the team only got into Europe and, indeed, the playoffs, once Hats was involved. Sounds like perfect credentials for a further promotion. On top of that, he's supposed to be well-liked in the squad. Yeah, lets see how Williams goes - Hats and Hooper knew him from before didnt they? So, they'll know who they're taking on. The coaching group will then all be Hoopers choices, yes?.
OBinFiji
OBinFiji
Agree OBinfiji, yep hats defo knows williams well (was it from Irish days?) and think hoops will have been playing for us when williams was involved with the academy?
As you say the coaching staff will be hoops choice next season, pretty much the whole playing squad will have been signed, extended, promoted from academy on his watch aswell.
Feels fair to fully judge him after next season to me. If things aren't going the right way that would be a concern. Top 4 next season if we aren't in champions cup should be the target imho, top 6 of trying to fight on both fronts.
As you say the coaching staff will be hoops choice next season, pretty much the whole playing squad will have been signed, extended, promoted from academy on his watch aswell.
Feels fair to fully judge him after next season to me. If things aren't going the right way that would be a concern. Top 4 next season if we aren't in champions cup should be the target imho, top 6 of trying to fight on both fronts.
Charlieboa +1 from me. They look realistic targets unlike some who demand top 4 every year as a minimum. I'd also add a caveat that if not in big cup but say within 5pts of 3rd but come 7th or 8th I'd accept that if playing okay. I feel this could be a year where we could still make top 4 with a bit of luck. Could also come in bottom two or three but be close to top 4 on points if that makes sense.
Is Compeed, (a brand of blister treatments, I think), on the right shoulder of our kit a new sponsor after Zac’s issues last week?
Quote:Barnoid
Is Compeed, (a brand of blister treatments, I think), on the right shoulder of our kit a new sponsor after Zac’s issues last week?
After his trot across southern Europe to Santiago I reckon PG is the man to ask!
Extraordinary try by McConnachie!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
That has to be the most spectacular piece of arial work I've seen that results in a try!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Best 24 mins of rugby in a very long time. Ball in hand is such a joy to watch so far
A very enjoyable half of rugby, Bath playing 7's and Exeter doing their thing, tremendous...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Not expecting the win, but it's a great game to watch with Bath playing some super rugby 
Thomas still a little bit off the pace for me... Turning in to give them pen for first try platform, then a bad 2-on-1 pass to faletau flipped possession in last 5 leading to second try
Defence around the fringes has suffered since Underhill and Dunn went off. Needed to be able to keep our top tacklers on the pitch.
Quote:Old Bath Tub
Bonus point win tomorrow...............for Bath !
Oh dear ! Got that wrong
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Just little errors - handling, silly pens. Gifted them territory.
On the whole happy though - especially first 30 mins, we were fantastic
On the whole happy though - especially first 30 mins, we were fantastic
When you throw a line out long, as Chiefs have done several times today, is the requirement that it be straight removed?
This has been great entertainment.
Bath's game management in the second half has been off unfortunately. But there is plenty to positive about.
Why Sam Simmonds isn't with England is a complete mystery.
Bath's game management in the second half has been off unfortunately. But there is plenty to positive about.
Why Sam Simmonds isn't with England is a complete mystery.
Quote:Barnoid
When you throw a line out long, as Chiefs have done several times today, is the requirement that it be straight removed?
After it passes the 15m it doesn't need to be I think
Why is it that every single time our 3/4s line up in a funky formation we lose the scrum? Literally never get to find out what the move is
That is 5 or 6 handling errors in our own half in the last 20 minutes. All 3 of their 2nd half tries have come from positions created by those errors.
Enjoyed the first 28 mins but since then we have been schooled by the European Champions on how to finish. Reminded me of the semi final from last season when we battered them for 20 mins and got thrashed. Against Exeter you have to take your chances when in front and two knock ons when in possession the their 22 is always going to cost you. So the winning run ends and two tough matches to come next, reckon we will be bottom two at the end of the month.
stuffed n the 2nd half not even close! we have such a long way to go to anywhere near competitive for top 4. Wasps have done the same to Glous today i see.
Normal service resumed ?
Poor 2nd half for Bath , 6 tries to 1 , 16 - 38 , back to the drawing board again ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Poor 2nd half for Bath , 6 tries to 1 , 16 - 38 , back to the drawing board again ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
From 13-0 to lose like that. 38-3 from the half hour mark. Silly mistakes crept in and the bench didn't add anything
Bummer last 10mins for us but fair play to chiefs, great game and though I am less happy than I was at h/time we are improving and take comfort from that...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Lost our composure after 60 minutes.
Chiefs impressive and inexorable but I would like to check their 3rd (obstruction) & 5th tries (forward pass?)
PG
Chiefs impressive and inexorable but I would like to check their 3rd (obstruction) & 5th tries (forward pass?)
PG
A really bright start and a really pleasing shape. Sadly in hindsight this game has the look of a game between a Level 8 team against a Level 6 team. Bath threw the kitchen sink at them and punched themselves out, leaving nothing for the last 60 minutes of the game.
Don’t really know what to think about this performance. We looked really sharp for 20 mins with not far from our strongest 23 which was encouraging. We lost the next 60 minutes 3-36 and looked punch drunk by the last 15.
Bright spots but still looking upwards to mid-table, which can hardly be seen as a good thing halfway through the season.
Don’t really know what to think about this performance. We looked really sharp for 20 mins with not far from our strongest 23 which was encouraging. We lost the next 60 minutes 3-36 and looked punch drunk by the last 15.
Bright spots but still looking upwards to mid-table, which can hardly be seen as a good thing halfway through the season.
The only bright spot in the second half was checking the scores to see Sarries are losing in the Championship
First thoughts.
One word Fitness. Mentioned several times in commentary our Fitness is not as good as Chiefs and that is unacceptable. Fitness is a personal as issue.
We just don't have the all round squad to compete. Imagine without the ultra reliable Priestland where we would be - well that is the reality next season.
Thought we capitulated badly and that is worrying give the boost of the last 3 games.
Will.watch the game if I can bear it.
One word Fitness. Mentioned several times in commentary our Fitness is not as good as Chiefs and that is unacceptable. Fitness is a personal as issue.
We just don't have the all round squad to compete. Imagine without the ultra reliable Priestland where we would be - well that is the reality next season.
Thought we capitulated badly and that is worrying give the boost of the last 3 games.
Will.watch the game if I can bear it.
Trounced as usual. I had a bit of hope for this game, given the introduction by the commentators & forgetting the disparity between the sides. Even so I would have accepted an 8 point defeat. Not this!
Sorry bright spots??, another load of tries through our unceasingly porous defence, the worst in the Prem I think!
If anyone is happy with that, I would like to understand their definition of success in sport, I assume those happy are also pleased England managed to win one cricket test v India !
If anyone is happy with that, I would like to understand their definition of success in sport, I assume those happy are also pleased England managed to win one cricket test v India !
Quote:nick holder
Sorry bright spots??, another load of tries through our unceasingly porous defence, the worst in the Prem I think!
If anyone is happy with that, I would like to understand their definition of success in sport, I assume those happy are also pleased England managed to win one cricket test v India !
You presumably missed the first 20 minutes, or are choosing to ignore anything good about the game?
Quote:nick holder
stuffed n the 2nd half not even close! we have such a long way to go to anywhere near competitive for top 4. Wasps have done the same to Glous today i see.
Wasps 19 Glaws 20. Glaws with 14 men!
Quote:dannyf2
We're tired. This has imploded unfortunately
Agree, several of our guys puffing and blowing hard!
Just way way way too many mistakes in the second half. Knock ons or stupid penalties at killer times, fitness not good enough, little impact from the bench (apart from Reid) and heads dropped.
It was 16-12 after 60 minutes against the European champions with most of their squad available.
Yes, the last 20 was very disappointing as fitness became a huge issue; decision making was poor and errors were compounded. But there were some positive points in this performance.
Yes, the last 20 was very disappointing as fitness became a huge issue; decision making was poor and errors were compounded. But there were some positive points in this performance.
Quote:ken_jnr
You presumably missed the first 20 minutes, or are choosing to ignore anything good about the game?
We started well, that’s true, but we then conceded 2 tries so were only level at halftime & the end was horrendous. It was much like England’s performance against India!
Quote:Old Bath Tub
Normal service resumed ?
Poor 2nd half for Bath , 6 tries to 1 , 16 - 38 , back to the drawing board again ?
Ouch! Well and truly put in our place based on that scoreline.
Still clinging on to 10th place though
We definitely ran out of steam big time. The last 15-20 was where the gulf showed.
Long throws still have to be straight as if they aren't at the end, they're not during the first 15! Cost us some good territory.
Long throws still have to be straight as if they aren't at the end, they're not during the first 15! Cost us some good territory.
The first half was actually very enjoyable but Chiefs were sticking to their plan and not panicking and we allowed them to get back on the front foot by giving pens away so they could do their close quarter stuff. Until the last 20 mins we were still in the game but tiredness and chasing the game was our downfall and they exploited the holes.
Good start but interesting to hear Innard saying the strategy was realising Bath would tire after 60 minutes and as it proved. Need better conditioning. I still think we need to replace Hooper but at least the playing style has much improved since the Bristol game. Redpath and Stuart will add more skill but 6th is all we can hope for.
I do ‘t think its back to the drawing board, more a question of fitness as stated above and of greater accuracy in execution - attack, defence and set piece.
The trick for Hats & Hoops this week is to get energy into the team from the positives while correcting the sloppy negatives
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
The trick for Hats & Hoops this week is to get energy into the team from the positives while correcting the sloppy negatives
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:It was much like England’s performance against India!
Don’t agree England capitulated after they won the toss!
Quote:I watched the first 20 mins (and the whole game) and there was some good play but we knocked in twice near their line, after their first try the game panned out exactly as expected. How can anyone on here be pleased with a few bright spots when conceding SIX tries at home?ken_jnrQuote:You presumably missed the first 20 minutes, or are choosing to ignore anything good about the game?nick holder
Sorry bright spots??, another load of tries through our unceasingly porous defence, the worst in the Prem I think!
If anyone is happy with that, I would like to understand their definition of success in sport, I assume those happy are also pleased England managed to win one cricket test v India !
I was wrong about the Glaws result, which makes our loss even more hard to bear!
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:17:32:20 by nick holder.
Useful reality check, still loads to do to close the gap.
Exeter 100% know what they are, how they want to play and I assume tailor their s and c to match their desire and need to go full throttle for 80.
Some weeks we don't get the ball past 10, some weeks we play like the harlem globetrotters. I think we are still finding our identity. I think hoops knows what he wants but needs to recruit to fix a few issues in terms of getting there.
Ex depth is good, quite a few know they will prob only be needed for 45-50 mins. We have to keep people like obano, dunn, spencer on too long as we know there is a big drop off in quality.
Not a disaster I don't think but concerning how we got blown away last 20 and again conceded a lot of tries. Made lots of tired mistakes. At least we played some good rugby first half with some ambition and skill but weren't ruthless enough.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:17:37:20 by charlieboa.
Exeter 100% know what they are, how they want to play and I assume tailor their s and c to match their desire and need to go full throttle for 80.
Some weeks we don't get the ball past 10, some weeks we play like the harlem globetrotters. I think we are still finding our identity. I think hoops knows what he wants but needs to recruit to fix a few issues in terms of getting there.
Ex depth is good, quite a few know they will prob only be needed for 45-50 mins. We have to keep people like obano, dunn, spencer on too long as we know there is a big drop off in quality.
Not a disaster I don't think but concerning how we got blown away last 20 and again conceded a lot of tries. Made lots of tired mistakes. At least we played some good rugby first half with some ambition and skill but weren't ruthless enough.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:17:37:20 by charlieboa.
Quote:Who has said they are pleased with conceding six tries at home?!, meaningless comment!!nick holderQuote:I watch the first 20 mins and there was some good play but we knocked in twice near their line, after their first try the game panned out exactly as expected. How can anyone on here be pleased with conceding SIX tries at home?ken_jnrQuote:You presumably missed the first 20 minutes, or are choosing to ignore anything good about the game?nick holder
Sorry bright spots??, another load of tries through our unceasingly porous defence, the worst in the Prem I think!
If anyone is happy with that, I would like to understand their definition of success in sport, I assume those happy are also pleased England managed to win one cricket test v India !
Exactly.
Nick - most posters are either critical or realistically acknowledging that for all the enjoyment of the early lead we still have much to fix.
However, we have been asking for
* More possession
* better command of territory
* More ruthlessness
* More attacking rugby
...and got all those for 60 minutes. Of course there are bright signs - that does not mean anybody has said they are happy at conceding six tries- especially the manner of the last few.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Nick - most posters are either critical or realistically acknowledging that for all the enjoyment of the early lead we still have much to fix.
However, we have been asking for
* More possession
* better command of territory
* More ruthlessness
* More attacking rugby
...and got all those for 60 minutes. Of course there are bright signs - that does not mean anybody has said they are happy at conceding six tries- especially the manner of the last few.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Quote:P G Tips
I do ‘t think its back to the drawing board, more a question of fitness
If this is really true (didn't watch so can't form my own opinion if fitness was the issue or not) then the players concerned should be ashamed of themselves.
They are professional sportsmen and not being fit enough to do their job for 80 minutes is inexcusable.
True OB but the combined effort of dominating possession for 25 mins and then much of the second half on defence was visibly wearing.
Changes from the bench refreshed Chiefs but seemed to disrupt us. These things are problems and disappointing but arr fixables.
PG
Changes from the bench refreshed Chiefs but seemed to disrupt us. These things are problems and disappointing but arr fixables.
PG
Quote:Exeter are known as a super super super fit team, it is a big part of why they were double champions last season. Bath may not be at Exeter’s level but saying they should be ashamed is excessive. Clearly not every professional sports person achieves the same levels of skill or fitness, being bested by another sports person isn’t inexcusable, it’s the outcome of competition.OutsideBathQuote:P G Tips
I do ‘t think its back to the drawing board, more a question of fitness
If this is really true (didn't watch so can't form my own opinion if fitness was the issue or not) then the players concerned should be ashamed of themselves.
They are professional sportsmen and not being fit enough to do their job for 80 minutes is inexcusable.
The first half hour was heartening for any Bath fan. Adventurous, attacking play, offloads, quick ball, quick feet, some interesting patterns, ball in hand 15 man rugby - a different Bath than we've usually seen all season and the change was uplifting. But the tyre deflated pretty rapidly and Exeter were able to play their power and push over rugby to great effect. Rhys is a great kicker but teams are now targeting his 10 channel and Exeter went through the 10/11 gap far too often and easily for comfort.
Ended up being a scoreboard drubbing that never quite felt like a rugby drubbing.
Ended up being a scoreboard drubbing that never quite felt like a rugby drubbing.
Exeter’s bench clearly had more of an impact than ours but Exeter also had two more recovery days than us since the games last weekend.
Good first 20 in attack (exciting) and defence (dominant). Barely at the races the remaining 60 mins. Very disappointing, lots of a problems that a good 20 min spell doesn't gloss over.
Bath are 10th in the table, have conceded 336 points in 12 matches (28 per game) including 44 tries despite the second highest tackles made (1620). If you watch BT sport and look at the statistics boxes they put up they make consistently depressing reading. A 2 point win a vs Glos and a 1pt win vs Saints don't change those facts, despite making the situation look a bit less horrendous and that is also notwithstanding the COVID points won vs Irish. I'm not sure what you expect really, the team has hugely underperformed this season and the DOR is bound to take the heat for that (as he should expect to).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:ollyshep
Very interesting that 99% of you where calling for hooper to be sacked. Seems to me like theres too many fair weather "fans" who change their mind every day
Bath are 10th in the table, have conceded 336 points in 12 matches (28 per game) including 44 tries despite the second highest tackles made (1620). If you watch BT sport and look at the statistics boxes they put up they make consistently depressing reading. A 2 point win a vs Glos and a 1pt win vs Saints don't change those facts, despite making the situation look a bit less horrendous and that is also notwithstanding the COVID points won vs Irish. I'm not sure what you expect really, the team has hugely underperformed this season and the DOR is bound to take the heat for that (as he should expect to).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Last 20 Faletau and Mercer were miles off defensively, one of Simmon's breaks down the blind side was completely un touched. What's more the difference of delivery speed from Spencer and Chudley was enormous. We just seemed to run out of steam early.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
What's more the difference of delivery speed from Spencer and Chudley was enormous.
Not a huge surprise to everyone who has ever seen them play - aside from the team selectors it seems. I'm even boring myself now asking why we are picking a 32 year old with glacial delivery and who is leaving in a couple of months versus either of 2 young snappy SHs unless they have both been injured all season?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BBWBaaBaa
However in other news :-
Cornish Pirates 25
Saracens 17
Doesn't mean much though does it? It just seems to me the Saracen's internationals are getting a year off. How can they be selected with hardly any game time, whats more some will go on a Lions tour desperately short of match fitness.Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BBWBaaBaa
However in other news :-
Cornish Pirates 25
Saracens 17
Well it does it they don't finish top and don't get promoted.
I am not convinced that Ealing will be a much easier proposition if they manage to get promoted.
Seriously well backed, seriously good training facilities, on a real upward curve and Alex Shaw heavily involved with the academy and recruitment.
Sarries red hot favourites still but would be chuffed if they missed out personally!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:18:33:55 by charlieboa.
Seriously well backed, seriously good training facilities, on a real upward curve and Alex Shaw heavily involved with the academy and recruitment.
Sarries red hot favourites still but would be chuffed if they missed out personally!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:18:33:55 by charlieboa.
My take on the game today.
After 20 minutes I was very very very pleased.
At h/t I was more than pleased.
After 60 mins I was still pleased.
At the end I was disappointed to say the least.
My summing up ? We can beat all but two teams in the league on this performance.
Slightly optimistic I know but I saw enough today to warrant that optimism.
After 20 minutes I was very very very pleased.
At h/t I was more than pleased.
After 60 mins I was still pleased.
At the end I was disappointed to say the least.
My summing up ? We can beat all but two teams in the league on this performance.
Slightly optimistic I know but I saw enough today to warrant that optimism.
Quote:BathMatt53
Good first 20 in attack (exciting) and defence (dominant). Barely at the races the remaining 60 mins. Very disappointing, lots of a problems that a good 20 min spell doesn't gloss over.Quote:ollyshep
Very interesting that 99% of you where calling for hooper to be sacked. Seems to me like theres too many fair weather "fans" who change their mind every day
Bath are 10th in the table, have conceded 336 points in 12 matches (28 per game) including 44 tries despite the second highest tackles made (1620). If you watch BT sport and look at the statistics boxes they put up they make consistently depressing reading. A 2 point win a vs Glos and a 1pt win vs Saints don't change those facts, despite making the situation look a bit less horrendous and that is also notwithstanding the COVID points won vs Irish. I'm not sure what you expect really, the team has hugely underperformed this season and the DOR is bound to take the heat for that (as he should expect to).
I certainly haven't changed my mind on whether Hooper should go or not, 10th in the table just confirms my view
Thoroughly enjoyable 60 minutes, but weirdly, what we really needed was to tighten it up and pump the corners for a period after half time. Once they’d upped their line speed and pressured the recipient of the big cut out passes our rugby started to look a bit headless chicken and the mistakes started to flow. But I loved the variety and constant changes of direction and mixing heavy-duty carriers with big wide passes in the first 50. Spencer was outstanding. Zach and McNally were outstanding. Muir made a couple of lovely breaks but forgot that in 15s there’s a last line of defence. Forgive that though - he is a hell of a find.
Quote:Optimist
Thoroughly enjoyable 60 minutes, but weirdly, what we really needed was to tighten it up and pump the corners for a period after half time. Once they’d upped their line speed and pressured the recipient of the big cut out passes our rugby started to look a bit headless chicken and the mistakes started to flow. But I loved the variety and constant changes of direction and mixing heavy-duty carriers with big wide passes in the first 50. Spencer was outstanding. Zach and McNally were outstanding. Muir made a couple of lovely breaks but forgot that in 15s there’s a last line of defence. Forgive that though - he is a hell of a find.
Agree with all that
It's not too surprising that they ran out of steam when you look at how many were coming back from injury and lay off. I think we should have played more of the form players and kept the international and returning players in the bench.
Quote:Optimist
Muir made a couple of lovely breaks but forgot that in 15s there’s a last line of defence. Forgive that though - he is a hell of a find.
Couple that with Ruaridh McConnochie's try there were some great skills to watch. I just looked the two handed catch over the top of the two defenders, neither of which are weak, and the twist and reach to the line.
We have only seen that sort of cross kick from Priestland a few times at the Rec. Flipping loved it!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:06:19:47:01 by shipwrecked.
Interesting to note that not one comment about any Coaching remarks made at half-time - it seemed o me listening as I was on 5 Live that as is so often the case, Bath "relaxed" psychologically when they shouldnt have done. Whoever was in charge today should have put the fear of god into them as Exeter never ever give up even when they are losing.
Exeter just kept their nerve, had a good game plan and reverted to what they know best. If only. .....
Exeter just kept their nerve, had a good game plan and reverted to what they know best. If only. .....
Were people really expecting to win that? Come on...
I am more than happy to support a team that gives it full beans and plays some brilliant rugby but then gets outclassed by opposition that is ruthlessly efficient and just doesn't make mistakes. Against nearly all the other teams in the league we wouldn't have shipped 6 trys - and would've scored more on that first 30 and the 10 after half time.
Play like that against Newcastle and we will take 5 pts.
I am more than happy to support a team that gives it full beans and plays some brilliant rugby but then gets outclassed by opposition that is ruthlessly efficient and just doesn't make mistakes. Against nearly all the other teams in the league we wouldn't have shipped 6 trys - and would've scored more on that first 30 and the 10 after half time.
Play like that against Newcastle and we will take 5 pts.
To be honest I am massively optimistic about that performance for the 1st 50mins. It has been a long time since I've seen us have such a good shape to our attack. Add Watson and Redpath to that structure and we might be on to something. Faletau, Underhill and McNally were all impressive.
Our fitness levels have always been a concern against the best. But unless we find a way to win the ball back off of sides that don't want to kick it, we will always suffer in the last quarter. Defending is so much harder - running back behind your ruck to get in position whilst doing everything to bring down a rampaging opposition pack. We need to come up with other solutions than hoping for someone to jacket the ball. Maybe work on a better defensive line out that stops the ball at source? Or in Hoopers view, don't give needless penalties and free kicks away in the first place.
The scoreline masked the effort and ambition of the first 50 mins. We are two teams at completely different points of their development. I for one would love us to say "that first 50 right there, that is our identity" - shifting the ball, getting Faletau out into the wide channels, not being afraid to conced ground to get the ball around the rush defense.
Most of the time we focus on changing our 1st teamers with new signings, but personally I think we need to improve the 2nd string, or keep giving opportunities to the Standons, Richards and Reids of our academy.
Yes the result and margin was inevitable, but the style and enterprise we showed in the 1st 50 was a surprise, a very pleasant surprise.
Our fitness levels have always been a concern against the best. But unless we find a way to win the ball back off of sides that don't want to kick it, we will always suffer in the last quarter. Defending is so much harder - running back behind your ruck to get in position whilst doing everything to bring down a rampaging opposition pack. We need to come up with other solutions than hoping for someone to jacket the ball. Maybe work on a better defensive line out that stops the ball at source? Or in Hoopers view, don't give needless penalties and free kicks away in the first place.
The scoreline masked the effort and ambition of the first 50 mins. We are two teams at completely different points of their development. I for one would love us to say "that first 50 right there, that is our identity" - shifting the ball, getting Faletau out into the wide channels, not being afraid to conced ground to get the ball around the rush defense.
Most of the time we focus on changing our 1st teamers with new signings, but personally I think we need to improve the 2nd string, or keep giving opportunities to the Standons, Richards and Reids of our academy.
Yes the result and margin was inevitable, but the style and enterprise we showed in the 1st 50 was a surprise, a very pleasant surprise.
Quote:BathMatt53
Good first 20 in attack (exciting) and defence (dominant). Barely at the races the remaining 60 mins. Very disappointing, lots of a problems that a good 20 min spell doesn't gloss over.Quote:ollyshep
Very interesting that 99% of you where calling for hooper to be sacked. Seems to me like theres too many fair weather "fans" who change their mind every day
Bath are 10th in the table, have conceded 336 points in 12 matches (28 per game) including 44 tries despite the second highest tackles made (1620). If you watch BT sport and look at the statistics boxes they put up they make consistently depressing reading. A 2 point win a vs Glos and a 1pt win vs Saints don't change those facts, despite making the situation look a bit less horrendous and that is also notwithstanding the COVID points won vs Irish. I'm not sure what you expect really, the team has hugely underperformed this season and the DOR is bound to take the heat for that (as he should expect to).
Good post, especially the bolded part. I've no idea what game people were watching going on about how great we were for 60 minutes. We were excellent for 20, not 60.
Poor fitness, which lead to our usual comical inability to control the ball or go through phases (did we get above 3 in the second half?) Same old.
If we go up to Newcastle and win up there (for the first time in years I think?) then maybe we can say we're still vaguely on the right track. Lose and this entire set-up will continue to never amount to anything, unless major changes are made, similar to the Bears.
Recalled going to Newcastle on many an occasion and winning so looked it up and was surprised to see we haven't won there since 2015 and they've beaten us a few times at the Rec as well.
Just watched the game. Lovely first half, carp second half. On field leadership was a major issue once again. When things are going well - fine. When the game turns we just don't have anyone who can metaphorically put his foot on the ball and says "OK, let's do something different now". Exeter adjusted won and we failed to and lost.
MotM - Sam Underhill. Our collapse pretty much coincided with him going off.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
MotM - Sam Underhill. Our collapse pretty much coincided with him going off.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Personally I think we as supporters have to accept our team as it is. Mid table at best.
Whilst I accept on paper we have some so.called International stars they look better on paper than they have ever performed for our club.
Exeter have no right to be fitter than us or anyone else in the Premiership. Fitness is a personal issue and cannot just be blamed on the coaches. Perhaps stories of players boozing and breaking rules sends a negative picture to all in the rugby world?
I honestly felt the first 30 minutes and even upto half time we looked good, but God how we fell apart and that is the real concern and to a certain extent undoes the last 3 weeks. Our bench added absolutely nothing in fact they went backwards, whereas last week and Exeters bench this week showed what a weapon it is to bring on players who make a difference.
The last 20 minute capitulation would seriously worry me if I were a coach going forward with relegation next season and Rhys leaving I would be seriously worried, unless of course there is a secret plan?
The look on Dallaglio's face yesterday when he heard Hoopers game plan was a picture basically stating live on air that our DoR is deluded to think that plan would succeed against the Chiefs. Who was right? Look at the scoreboard.
Whilst I accept on paper we have some so.called International stars they look better on paper than they have ever performed for our club.
Exeter have no right to be fitter than us or anyone else in the Premiership. Fitness is a personal issue and cannot just be blamed on the coaches. Perhaps stories of players boozing and breaking rules sends a negative picture to all in the rugby world?
I honestly felt the first 30 minutes and even upto half time we looked good, but God how we fell apart and that is the real concern and to a certain extent undoes the last 3 weeks. Our bench added absolutely nothing in fact they went backwards, whereas last week and Exeters bench this week showed what a weapon it is to bring on players who make a difference.
The last 20 minute capitulation would seriously worry me if I were a coach going forward with relegation next season and Rhys leaving I would be seriously worried, unless of course there is a secret plan?
The look on Dallaglio's face yesterday when he heard Hoopers game plan was a picture basically stating live on air that our DoR is deluded to think that plan would succeed against the Chiefs. Who was right? Look at the scoreboard.
Dominant 20 ok 20, poor 20, porous 20
Score line a little cruel, but deserved as we seemed to just stop in the last 10 mins which to me is the worrying bit as pride at this level should mean you do not stop until the final whistle.
I really want the Hooper experiment to work as I think it is the right approach for the club. We know he is passionate about Bath and is trying to create a winning team.
There is talent in the team and the young guns are looking very promising. Performances look more varied than when he took over, less forward oriented game plan. Hopefully we start to click and learn to react and vary the plan in accordance to what is happening on the pitch.
Early on the long cut out passes were working beautifully, but once Exeter worked them out we still persisted with them rather than trying something else. Similarly Deveto catching long line outs. 4 times I think and each time it was like a surprise to us
Hoping for more
Score line a little cruel, but deserved as we seemed to just stop in the last 10 mins which to me is the worrying bit as pride at this level should mean you do not stop until the final whistle.
I really want the Hooper experiment to work as I think it is the right approach for the club. We know he is passionate about Bath and is trying to create a winning team.
There is talent in the team and the young guns are looking very promising. Performances look more varied than when he took over, less forward oriented game plan. Hopefully we start to click and learn to react and vary the plan in accordance to what is happening on the pitch.
Early on the long cut out passes were working beautifully, but once Exeter worked them out we still persisted with them rather than trying something else. Similarly Deveto catching long line outs. 4 times I think and each time it was like a surprise to us
Hoping for more
I think the focus and comments re fitness are somewhat valid.
In the players defence they have probably been conditioned to be big for a game plan that largely involves going from set piece to set piece, maul teams and kick/chase.
We then try to play 7s style for the whole game against a team who pride themselves on going relentlessly for 80 and who really stretch teams outside the 22 and are brutally efficient once in the 22.
As I say I think we are still searching for our style and identity. Post lockdown was all about grinding teams down via the maul and scrum. The coaches know we need more than that and as hats openly admitted we have become a bit muddled this season.
I personally found it very refreshing yest and enjoyed it. We just weren't ruthless when we needed to be (left some tries out there) and weren't pragmatic when we needed to be. Continued to play from everywhere once Exeter had worked us out.
There is a balance somewhere between restart tactics and yest that I think will suit us very nicely. Just glad to see us execute some really nice skills yest in terms of accurate passing and quality offloads. Gives me hope for the future that the likes of redpath, JJ, watson, rmc, muir, coko, ghw, faletau , tdg etc are not completely wasted by us.
In the players defence they have probably been conditioned to be big for a game plan that largely involves going from set piece to set piece, maul teams and kick/chase.
We then try to play 7s style for the whole game against a team who pride themselves on going relentlessly for 80 and who really stretch teams outside the 22 and are brutally efficient once in the 22.
As I say I think we are still searching for our style and identity. Post lockdown was all about grinding teams down via the maul and scrum. The coaches know we need more than that and as hats openly admitted we have become a bit muddled this season.
I personally found it very refreshing yest and enjoyed it. We just weren't ruthless when we needed to be (left some tries out there) and weren't pragmatic when we needed to be. Continued to play from everywhere once Exeter had worked us out.
There is a balance somewhere between restart tactics and yest that I think will suit us very nicely. Just glad to see us execute some really nice skills yest in terms of accurate passing and quality offloads. Gives me hope for the future that the likes of redpath, JJ, watson, rmc, muir, coko, ghw, faletau , tdg etc are not completely wasted by us.
Quote:Ali1969
Personally I think we as supporters have to accept our team as it is. Mid table at best.
Whilst I accept on paper we have some so.called International stars they look better on paper than they have ever performed for our club.
And yet Bristol won European silverware within two seasons of Prem rugby and have a built a club environment that players love playing in.
Why do we have to accept never amounting to anything? Nothing wrong with expecting more.
Nothing wrong with expecting more, we should be better than we are. Trouble is there are 11 other teams striving for the same thing all working within the same salary cap. Success isn't easy.
I think bris are destined for bigger things but currently they have only won the second tier euro comp which quite a few teams don't take v seriously, certainly until the latter stages. How they manage all their massive earners over the next few yrs will get interesting.
I genuinely think if we give the right players exposure this season, make the right 3-4 signings and end up missing out on champions Cup qualification hen we as fans should be demanding top 4 next season. No excuses, all the coaches and players will be hoops choices and will have a quality squad and a great crop of 19-21 yr olds.
I think bris are destined for bigger things but currently they have only won the second tier euro comp which quite a few teams don't take v seriously, certainly until the latter stages. How they manage all their massive earners over the next few yrs will get interesting.
I genuinely think if we give the right players exposure this season, make the right 3-4 signings and end up missing out on champions Cup qualification hen we as fans should be demanding top 4 next season. No excuses, all the coaches and players will be hoops choices and will have a quality squad and a great crop of 19-21 yr olds.
Quote:Ali1969
Personally I think we as supporters have to accept our team as it is. Mid table at best.
Whilst I accept on paper we have some so.called International stars they look better on paper than they have ever performed for our club.
I think you are correct in that that is what they are now. But we've seen evolution in our play this season and the emergence of Redpath, Muir, TdG as bona fide first team players. If the first 30 minutes of yesterday's game are indicative of a Plan B for the future, then I'll be happy. Then all we need is a captain who can recognize when things need to change during a game and I don't see one in the current squad. Charlie Ewels is one for the future but he's not for right now.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Two points. Bristol fans after we beat them at Twickenham were all on their message board moaning about the high risk style of rugby that had cost them a game they should have won, and now we rightly admire their style of winning rugby. I hope what you saw yesterday (and I've read about) is the blueprint for how we want to try and play. We need to learn to be more clinical and fitter for such an open style of rugby, and be able to play in a different way when necessary, as Bristol are learning to do, but at least there's some ambition to entertain which I never saw under Blackadder and I hope we continue to try and play in a similar way for the rest of the season. Secondly, the point about Bath's drinking culture made by Ali 1969. It seems an unfair inference based on an incident involving 2 players. I guess when you're underachieving you're there to be knocked. Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
As most others have commented there was considerable stuff in the opening 55 minutes to be really happy about. With ball Rhys was excellent in that period and obviously the cross kick for the try was absolute class but he badly missed two tackles that led to important tries
I really thought Muir was in and a real shame as that would have not only stretched the lead but given us a massive boost in believing a win was on. Exeter looked comfortable after that keeping score as it was and then stepping up a couple of gears from 60 minutes
Does it just show the current difference between the top two and everyone else?
I really thought Muir was in and a real shame as that would have not only stretched the lead but given us a massive boost in believing a win was on. Exeter looked comfortable after that keeping score as it was and then stepping up a couple of gears from 60 minutes
Does it just show the current difference between the top two and everyone else?
It does gaz, but to be “best of the rest” there are several areas of improvement to address.
Firstly, finishing, support lines and awareness of support in attack - 2 tries went a begging when we were leading.
Second - inventiveness. Exeter’s first try surprised us because we expected a drive not a strike move.
Thirdly - defence: still. First up tackling in the 10 channel.
Fourth- sustained intensity. Very much in it at 60 minutes, we were out of it by 70.
Put thise right and we can challenge the best.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Firstly, finishing, support lines and awareness of support in attack - 2 tries went a begging when we were leading.
Second - inventiveness. Exeter’s first try surprised us because we expected a drive not a strike move.
Thirdly - defence: still. First up tackling in the 10 channel.
Fourth- sustained intensity. Very much in it at 60 minutes, we were out of it by 70.
Put thise right and we can challenge the best.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
The first 20 minutes yesterday were good, because we completely dominated the ball. But there was a major error in judgement each time we had a penalty and went for the posts. You simply don't beat Exeter on a dry day with 3 pointers. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Exeter went for the posts once from a penalty, they went to the corner or tap and go'd every single time. We had two penalties in that first half when we were on top where we went for goal, which Priestland converted, but it was too conservative and naive.
Exeter's forwards are almost guaranteed to score when they are in the opposition 22, or there is a lineout in the corner, and our forwards are not close to being as clinical, but you've got to try if you want to have a chance of winning a match like that. We had the ascendancy and you need to try and put yourself out of sight. For all that early dominance, Exeter were back in the game basically as soon as they had possession twice in Bath's half.
The only other issue with yesterday was that we didn't pin Exeter back enough with kicking in open play, if you're going to allow them the ball, it needs to be deep in their half. Some of our back play was encouraging yesterday (it wasn't amazing, it's just we haven't seen our backs play for such a long time, it just felt they were amazing!), but I think we became too predictable, which is why the second receiver was getting man and ball a couple of times in the second half.
It shows how far off the pace Bath are when we play arguably our best rugby of the season, but we get beaten 38-16 at home, especially when you consider that was not a million miles away from our full strength side yesterday. There are reasons for optimism, but how much longer can Bath be a club that is "building something special"...
Exeter's forwards are almost guaranteed to score when they are in the opposition 22, or there is a lineout in the corner, and our forwards are not close to being as clinical, but you've got to try if you want to have a chance of winning a match like that. We had the ascendancy and you need to try and put yourself out of sight. For all that early dominance, Exeter were back in the game basically as soon as they had possession twice in Bath's half.
The only other issue with yesterday was that we didn't pin Exeter back enough with kicking in open play, if you're going to allow them the ball, it needs to be deep in their half. Some of our back play was encouraging yesterday (it wasn't amazing, it's just we haven't seen our backs play for such a long time, it just felt they were amazing!), but I think we became too predictable, which is why the second receiver was getting man and ball a couple of times in the second half.
It shows how far off the pace Bath are when we play arguably our best rugby of the season, but we get beaten 38-16 at home, especially when you consider that was not a million miles away from our full strength side yesterday. There are reasons for optimism, but how much longer can Bath be a club that is "building something special"...
Quote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
Quote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
You are absolutely right but assuming people on here have access to what he said or know where to look is a just daft BO.
You could make your point by indicating or paraphrasing the content without breaching this boards guidelines. What point in the post do you feel is idiotic?
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
You are absolutely right but assuming people on here have access to what he said or know where to look is a just daft BO.
You could make your point by indicating or paraphrasing the content without breaching this boards guidelines. What point in the post do you feel is idiotic?
Eh?
I quoted a post talking about 'Chiefs players opposing lockdown', then immediately referenced Hepburn. There was no need to paraphrase, it's obvious what his post was about. The point being discussed is about team culture and my point was OT suff like that doesn't really alter the rugby side of things.
Latest is pushing it slightly, it's from 19th December. Basically it's a hissy fit that the government locked the country down just before Christmas saying things like:
And
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:10:59:07 by hasta.
Quote:I feel these orders by decree, placing unjustified duress on many is tantamount to abuse on the British public
And
Quote:There is no higher claim to one's safety than that of the individual, only you can negotiate the trials and tribulations of life
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:07:10:59:07 by hasta.
Quote:ballsoutQuote:shipwreckedQuote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
You are absolutely right but assuming people on here have access to what he said or know where to look is a just daft BO.
You could make your point by indicating or paraphrasing the content without breaching this boards guidelines. What point in the post do you feel is idiotic?
Eh?
I quoted a post talking about 'Chiefs players opposing lockdown', then immediately referenced Hepburn. There was no need to paraphrase, it's obvious what his post was about. The point being discussed is about team culture and my point was OT suff like that doesn't really alter the rugby side of things.
OK lets keep it simple then what did Alec Hepburn say? Link or quote would help.
Quote:ballsout
Type in 'Alec Hepburn instagram' on google
Of course I can do that, flipping heck, you wonder why you get so much antipathy towards your posts then make everything a struggle to respond. Just thought you could post a link or make a point explaining.
Any point you wanted to make is completely lost now due to your attitude.
Instead of asking what he said, and using up five (now six) posts of this thread on this needless and immaterial tangent of Hepburn's view on Covid, just spend 20 seconds googling. It really isn't that hard.
Or maybe I'm just already wound up from years of seeing the increasingly tedious Flatman constantly ask his horde of fawning twitter followers answers that a 20 second google search would have provided.
Agree with most comments about fitness.
To play the way we did in the first half, that is from touchline to touchline just could not be sustained into the second half. Saying that ,not sure many or any team could play like that for full 80.
So once the fatigue set in the mistakes started to creep in and Exeter did what they are supremely good at, getting into the oppo's 22 and scoring.
So I think we need to learn to be able to play a la first 30 mins in bursts and not try to play 80 mins like that, get so fatigued that defence then goes to pieces.
To play the way we did in the first half, that is from touchline to touchline just could not be sustained into the second half. Saying that ,not sure many or any team could play like that for full 80.
So once the fatigue set in the mistakes started to creep in and Exeter did what they are supremely good at, getting into the oppo's 22 and scoring.
So I think we need to learn to be able to play a la first 30 mins in bursts and not try to play 80 mins like that, get so fatigued that defence then goes to pieces.
Quote:ballsout
Instead of asking what he said, and using up five (now six) posts of this thread on this needless and immaterial tangent of Hepburn's view on Covid, just spend 20 seconds googling. It really isn't that hard.
Done it, point lost, you are becoming increasingly irrelevant I'm afraid due to your attitude.
Quote:I agree with you in that when you're winning such views tend to be overlooked; one of the rewards for being successful. When you're not successful, like Bath, people are looking for reasons to criticise, as in the inference that our lack of fitness is down to a possible drinking culture on the basis of Stooke's recent court case.ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
Yes TomReagan, absolutely. Kahneman calls it an 'availability heuristic' - and forming a self-satisfying rhetoric around that error (cognitive dissonance) is well discussed by Matthew Syed in his book 'Black Box'.
Interestingly, reading above there are people committing the opposite irrational error by quoting aggregate statistics to defend their position on Hooper. This is also wrong: we know the team has underperformed in previous matches; genuine analysis compares figures between the games we have recently won vs the matches we lost before, not wrapping them all up in one bundle.
I for one was very encouraged by yesterday's performance. Not perfect by a long shot, but such a departure from the gutless kick-and-hope we've seen in previous weeks. As long as we keep improving, I am happy with Hooper - but if we regress again, my opinion will change.
Onwards and upwards! COYB
Interestingly, reading above there are people committing the opposite irrational error by quoting aggregate statistics to defend their position on Hooper. This is also wrong: we know the team has underperformed in previous matches; genuine analysis compares figures between the games we have recently won vs the matches we lost before, not wrapping them all up in one bundle.
I for one was very encouraged by yesterday's performance. Not perfect by a long shot, but such a departure from the gutless kick-and-hope we've seen in previous weeks. As long as we keep improving, I am happy with Hooper - but if we regress again, my opinion will change.
Onwards and upwards! COYB
Quote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
It's not "idiotic and embarrassing" at all. He puts his point across in well reasoned and eloquently expressed language. I don't agree with him and clearly you don't agree with him but it is idiotic and embarrassing to condemn his opinion as idiotic and embarrassing.
Quote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated.
Rob Baxter never opposed lockdown nor implied Covid was exaggerated. The only quotes I've read from him suggest he is entirely comfortable with following the rules as they're written on the subject.
Quote:malcoQuote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
It's not "idiotic and embarrassing" at all. He puts his point across in well reasoned and eloquently expressed language. I don't agree with him and clearly you don't agree with him but it is idiotic and embarrassing to condemn his opinion as idiotic and embarrassing.
Oh good, more personal abuse from the expert at it.
His ignorance is there for all to see. I'm not going to give him a gold star just because he expressed himself eloquently, probably used a thesaurus. Thankfully a lot of the replies seem to call him out on it.
Quote:Poking With SticksQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated.
Rob Baxter never opposed lockdown nor implied Covid was exaggerated. The only quotes I've read from him suggest he is entirely comfortable with following the rules as they're written on the subject.
Wasn't he the one who said clubs didn't need to test anymore, back in September, a week before the Sale and Wasps outbreaks happened?
Quote:I don't mind if he did or didn't, although the papers reported it. It's a view held by many people. The point I was trying to make was that if Bath players offered similar views it would be more likely that they'd be criticised by Bath fans looking to find evidence of a culture that has bred under-achievement. When you're successful that's not going to happen.Poking With SticksQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated.
Rob Baxter never opposed lockdown nor implied Covid was exaggerated. The only quotes I've read from him suggest he is entirely comfortable with following the rules as they're written on the subject.
I haven't read any posts above being writing this.
I was very ,very disappointed after the match.
I have just started watching the preamble for the Quins v Saints game and as they do on Sunday they showed some highlights from the other games.
Because of the depressing result I had "forgotten" that we were still in the lead at the 60 minute point and that we were "only" 8 points behind on the 76 minute, ie a penalty kick away from a losing bonus.
Didn't feel quite as bad when I saw that.
I was very ,very disappointed after the match.
I have just started watching the preamble for the Quins v Saints game and as they do on Sunday they showed some highlights from the other games.
Because of the depressing result I had "forgotten" that we were still in the lead at the 60 minute point and that we were "only" 8 points behind on the 76 minute, ie a penalty kick away from a losing bonus.
Didn't feel quite as bad when I saw that.
BSJ I think it shows how well we played for the first 30mins when we are gutted at losing to the double champions. The score flattered them and we def have a lot to work on. But considering where we were a month ago yesterday really wasn't that bad. After the quins game would we have accepted 3 wins and being against chiefs at 60mins.To damn right we would.
Magnificent. Complains about having his own words. How amusing!
Quote:ballsoutQuote:malcoQuote:ballsoutQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated. They're entitled to their views but I wonder how some posters here might have reacted to that, what inferences would have been drawn re the club culture. When you're successful you get looked at in a different light...
Another reason to dislike them. Alec Hepburn's latest Instagram post is idiotic and embarrasing, but it doesn't really amount to anything on the rugby side of things.
It's not "idiotic and embarrassing" at all. He puts his point across in well reasoned and eloquently expressed language. I don't agree with him and clearly you don't agree with him but it is idiotic and embarrassing to condemn his opinion as idiotic and embarrassing.
Oh good, more personal abuse from the expert at it.
His ignorance is there for all to see. I'm not going to give him a gold star just because he expressed himself eloquently, probably used a thesaurus. Thankfully a lot of the replies seem to call him out on it.
Quote:TomReaganQuote:I don't mind if he did or didn't, although the papers reported it.Poking With SticksQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated.
Rob Baxter never opposed lockdown nor implied Covid was exaggerated. The only quotes I've read from him suggest he is entirely comfortable with following the rules as they're written on the subject.
You may not mind but I damn sure would mind if you falsely accused me of that. The papers reported no such thing. I assume you're referring to the interview he gave where he said he could see a time soon when testing wouldn't be necessary. He was wrong as it turned out and was happy to hold his hands up to it.
Quote:ballsout
Wasn't he the one who said clubs didn't need to test anymore, back in September, a week before the Sale and Wasps outbreaks happened?
Did you read the article or just take someone else's word for it?
Baxter put his hands up as you say and took it in good humour, was able to laugh at himself. A rare foot wrong but blimey that bloke gets most things right.
As much as I am being distracted by what some staff at Exeter may or may not have said, and the subsequent discussion between BO and Malco, I am still surprised by how many think there were so many positives from yesterday. Of course the first 20 mins was fun, but ultimately over the full 80 mins we were stuffed. We have conceded 336 points , the highest, we have a points difference of -113, the worst and we our home ground is no longer a fortress, we have won once there all season.
Is this not a crisis?
Is this not a crisis?
Depends how you look at it Nick.
A poor position to be in yes, but even before suspension of relegation was confirmed there were many calling for experiment in selection and playing style - some even saying results would not matter.
That is not my view, but if you have a free pass to blood players and take risks to develop an attractive ( and potentially winning) attack strategy it could be an opportunity worth taking.
We have seen excellent play from Muir, fine development of De Glanville, Reid and Bayliss and experience gained by Staddon.
Specifically from yesterday we saw admirable attacking ambition - which with a little sharper execution could have brought 2-3 more tries. Not bad against European and domestic champs.
PG
A poor position to be in yes, but even before suspension of relegation was confirmed there were many calling for experiment in selection and playing style - some even saying results would not matter.
That is not my view, but if you have a free pass to blood players and take risks to develop an attractive ( and potentially winning) attack strategy it could be an opportunity worth taking.
We have seen excellent play from Muir, fine development of De Glanville, Reid and Bayliss and experience gained by Staddon.
Specifically from yesterday we saw admirable attacking ambition - which with a little sharper execution could have brought 2-3 more tries. Not bad against European and domestic champs.
PG
Quote:I'll try one more time then give up. I'm not accusing Baxter of anything. I read a report about several Exeter players questioning lockdown and the reaction to Covid. They might have a point, I'm not debating that. Let me try putting it another way. If an Exeter player (or a Saracen for that matter) was done for drink driving the player's club's fans wouldn't be seeing it as evidence of a drinking culture that was affecting the team's performance. With Stooke it was an inference a poster made. I was suggesting that maybe our underachievement is behind the inference, that's all.Poking With SticksQuote:TomReaganQuote:I don't mind if he did or didn't, although the papers reported it.Poking With SticksQuote:TomReagan
Several Chiefs players and Rob Baxter opposed lockdown and talked of Covid being exaggerated.
Rob Baxter never opposed lockdown nor implied Covid was exaggerated. The only quotes I've read from him suggest he is entirely comfortable with following the rules as they're written on the subject.
You may not mind but I damn sure would mind if you falsely accused me of that. The papers reported no such thing. I assume you're referring to the interview he gave where he said he could see a time soon when testing wouldn't be necessary. He was wrong as it turned out and was happy to hold his hands up to it.
As an aside to the above dialogues and continuing in my unremittingly positive frame of mind did anyone else notice that JC when he arrived in the 70 minutes looked more positive and more accurate in his little cameo than when we last saw him.
Or is that me just trying to be blindly positive in the teeth of a crisis.
Lockdown is coming to an end we are going to get our lives back............., Saracens lost and there is no relegation, this is not a crisis.
Or is that me just trying to be blindly positive in the teeth of a crisis.
Lockdown is coming to an end we are going to get our lives back............., Saracens lost and there is no relegation, this is not a crisis.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
As an aside to the above dialogues and continuing in my unremittingly positive frame of mind did anyone else notice that JC when he arrived in the 70 minutes looked more positive and more accurate in his little cameo than when we last saw him.
Or is that me just trying to be blindly positive in the teeth of a crisis.
Nope, i thought the same. His body language was totally changed and he looked like he wanted to be there. A very good sign.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
As did JJ who defended like it really mattered.
If anyone ever works out why on two separate match days players can go from apathetic, unconfident, slouches can't catch for toffee and partake in flap tackles to fired up, aggressive, line breakers who pick up passes off their toes and smash second rows backwards at pace. That person would be worth squillions of pounds instantly.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If anyone ever works out why on two separate match days players can go from apathetic, unconfident, slouches can't catch for toffee and partake in flap tackles to fired up, aggressive, line breakers who pick up passes off their toes and smash second rows backwards at pace. That person would be worth squillions of pounds instantly.
Quote:shipwrecked
As did JJ who defended like it really mattered.
If anyone ever works out why on two separate match days players can go from apathetic, unconfident, slouches can't catch for toffee and partake in flap tackles to fired up, aggressive, line breakers who pick up passes off their toes and smash second rows backwards at pace. That person would be worth squillions of pounds instantly.
I'd suggest it's because they believed in what they were being asked to do. In JJs case, it's got to be much more fun being asked to play to your considerable strengths than to play a conservative kick and chase game.
You are Stuart Hooper and I claim my squillions!
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:nick holder
As much as I am being distracted by what some staff at Exeter may or may not have said, and the subsequent discussion between BO and Malco, I am still surprised by how many think there were so many positives from yesterday. Of course the first 20 mins was fun, but ultimately over the full 80 mins we were stuffed. We have conceded 336 points , the highest, we have a points difference of -113, the worst and we our home ground is no longer a fortress, we have won once there all season.
Is this not a crisis?
Probably not a crisis with the bar for success lowered. Seems that a bit of decent rugby, a couple of wins, avoid relegation and competing with the top teams for 60 mins keeps most fans happy.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:nick holder
As much as I am being distracted by what some staff at Exeter may or may not have said, and the subsequent discussion between BO and Malco, I am still surprised by how many think there were so many positives from yesterday. Of course the first 20 mins was fun, but ultimately over the full 80 mins we were stuffed. We have conceded 336 points , the highest, we have a points difference of -113, the worst and we our home ground is no longer a fortress, we have won once there all season.
Is this not a crisis?
Probably not a crisis with the bar for success lowered. Seems that a bit of decent rugby, a couple of wins, avoid relegation and competing with the top teams for 60 mins keeps most fans happy.
Oh come on OB, 60 minutes is a bit strong - 40 at a push. But the fact remains that we were very competitive for that period against a seriously good team. Have you taken a look at the match thread on the Exe board? They were (temporarily) impressed.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:Poking With SticksQuote:ballsout
Wasn't he the one who said clubs didn't need to test anymore, back in September, a week before the Sale and Wasps outbreaks happened?
Did you read the article or just take someone else's word for it?
Rob Baxter 100% said that clubs didn't need to spend the money on testing anymore, 1/2 weeks before the outbreaks. He, to be fair, then said that he obviously looked foolish and shouldn't talk about it anymore.
Quote:Maybe it's just that some fans are seeing at least a few encouraging signs that we might make significant improvements both in terms of our chances of winning and of entertaining. Even the most critical and despondent fans must recognise that progress takes time. I know we've been here before, but under Todd Blackadder I never saw anything that gave me cause for optimism. It was dull rugby that would win you 40 to 50% of your games, and that never changed. I'm not saying Bath are definitely on the way up at all, but at least there's a bit of hope, nothing more.OutsideBath
Probably not a crisis with the bar for success lowered. Seems that a bit of decent rugby, a couple of wins, avoid relegation and competing with the top teams for 60 mins keeps most fans happy.
Quote:joethefanatic
Have you taken a look at the match thread on the Exe board? They were (temporarily) impressed.
Something to aspire to: to have Exeter Chiefs fans temporarily impressed by an opposition.
Quote:hasta
Rob Baxter 100% said that clubs didn't need to spend the money on testing anymore, 1/2 weeks before the outbreaks. He, to be fair, then said that he obviously looked foolish and shouldn't talk about it anymore.
Rob Baxter stopping himself from speaking would be a turn up for the books!
He shouldn't talk about things he doesn't know, just as all the other Exeter players with their anti-lockdown/covid views shouldn't either.
Quote:TomReagan
fans must recognise that progress takes time.
How much more time does this club need to finally amount to something? Chiefs got promoted to the Prem and became Champions six years later (after contesting a couple of Finals before that). Bristol won European silverware after 2 seasons in the Prem and will probably qualify for the plays offs for a 2nd consecutive year. Bath have done so twice (once) in ten years. Eddie Jones won a grand slam after four months in charge. Progress doesn't need to take as long as it's taking Bath.
BO, I did say we've been here before! It's been too long, I agree, but that doesn't mean I can't be a bit optimistic that things are now moving forward in a few areas, and by that I don't mean being decent for a half in a game I've not seen. As I said, under TB I can't recall anything that gave me any hope of anything other than consistent mediocrity.
Quote:hasta
Rob Baxter 100% said that clubs didn't need to spend the money on testing anymore, 1/2 weeks before the outbreaks. He, to be fair, then said that he obviously looked foolish and shouldn't talk about it anymore.
Here's what he said:
“Hopefully, things progress very quickly and hopefully maybe it will be a matter of weeks where testing is deemed unnecessary,” Baxter said.
“The reality is, when you look at the number of tests being made and how few cases are being picked up, I don’t think we are far off genuine medical reasons not to continue with the testing.
“I think most clubs would be in agreement that what is being picked up and the actual transfer rates, even around players who are testing positive, are so, so small that I think the argument for continued testing will die away pretty quickly.
Had the situation remained the same, he may well have been right. The trouble was this interview was at the end of September - just before the Kent variant blew up.
Quote:dannyf2
Were people really expecting to win that? Come on...
I am more than happy to support a team that gives it full beans and plays some brilliant rugby but then gets outclassed by opposition that is ruthlessly efficient and just doesn't make mistakes. Against nearly all the other teams in the league we wouldn't have shipped 6 trys - and would've scored more on that first 30 and the 10 after half time.
Play like that against Newcastle and we will take 5 pts.
Not sure about ‘gives it full beans’. It wasn’t long ago some fans were saying Hoops had lost changing room which seemed to show in ‘no beans performances’. Narrow wins don’t alter the landscape hugely, tho I admit recent performances have shown more determination and hope. Nonetheless, the quality of the squad against the quality of performances are poles apart.
I think Hooper has bought himself another season. In some ways, simply to have arrested what looked like a complete wheels-off situation is impressive in its own right. Something went badly wrong for a couple of months, and you don’t get those last 4 performances from players who aren’t listening. I would have been happy to see him go at that point, but there’s enough (potential) positives to fill a glass up to half-full.
The slightly annoying thing is that RP has waited until now to get out the full box of attacking tricks. But what that does support, IMO, is the notion that a really top 10 can turn an under-performing side.
The slightly annoying thing is that RP has waited until now to get out the full box of attacking tricks. But what that does support, IMO, is the notion that a really top 10 can turn an under-performing side.
Quote:Optimist
The slightly annoying thing is that RP has waited until now to get out the full box of attacking tricks. But what that does support, IMO, is the notion that a really top 10 can turn an under-performing side.
Absolutely Opti, hough I would add that you also need a top 9 as well. Pre Spencer Rhys Priestland had little chance to be fair. Also sorry to say but our worst period yesterday was when Spencer went off. Its also unfair to judge TS unless he is getting proper service.
True SW, true. Again, I’m going to take it as a positive that Hooper doesn’t regard Chudley - who I think is a decent 9 - as a good enough second choice.
I think Spencer, as well as Obano, Dunn and a couple of others absolutely emptied the tank over 55-60 minutes yesterday and that enabled us to stay with the best team in Europe for an hour. When we get to the point where the coaches can allow/instruct them to do that knowing that the bench will maintain something closer to the standard then we’ll start to challenge.
I think Spencer, as well as Obano, Dunn and a couple of others absolutely emptied the tank over 55-60 minutes yesterday and that enabled us to stay with the best team in Europe for an hour. When we get to the point where the coaches can allow/instruct them to do that knowing that the bench will maintain something closer to the standard then we’ll start to challenge.
Quote:Poking With SticksQuote:hasta
Rob Baxter 100% said that clubs didn't need to spend the money on testing anymore, 1/2 weeks before the outbreaks. He, to be fair, then said that he obviously looked foolish and shouldn't talk about it anymore.
Here's what he said:
“Hopefully, things progress very quickly and hopefully maybe it will be a matter of weeks where testing is deemed unnecessary,” Baxter said.
“The reality is, when you look at the number of tests being made and how few cases are being picked up, I don’t think we are far off genuine medical reasons not to continue with the testing.
“I think most clubs would be in agreement that what is being picked up and the actual transfer rates, even around players who are testing positive, are so, so small that I think the argument for continued testing will die away pretty quickly.
Had the situation remained the same, he may well have been right. The trouble was this interview was at the end of September - just before the Kent variant blew up.
Not really, the trouble was the next week Sale and Wasps had large numbers of positive tests. The Kent variant blew up in late November, and isn't particularly applicable to any rugby club incidences.
And he said he was wrong next week. Don't really have a problem with him.
A few of the Ex players have posted some fringe opinions on Insta.
Quote:Optimist
True SW, true. Again, I’m going to take it as a positive that Hooper doesn’t regard Chudley - who I think is a decent 9 - as a good enough second choice.
I think Spencer, as well as Obano, Dunn and a couple of others absolutely emptied the tank over 55-60 minutes yesterday and that enabled us to stay with the best team in Europe for an hour. When we get to the point where the coaches can allow/instruct them to do that knowing that the bench will maintain something closer to the standard then we’ll start to challenge.
Completely agree with this
Quote:TomReagan
Even the most critical and despondent fans must recognise that progress takes time.
progress (verb)
1. move forward or onward in space or time.
2. develop towards an improved or more advanced condition.
Bath being 10th after 12 games with the worst defensive record, a defensive record which was really its key positive over the last season really cannot seriously be regarded as progression? Seems to me it's the dictionary definition of regression across the club as a whole. You can't just cherry pick 20 mins across a season IMO and draw a conclusion on that, it's one swallow but Bath are definitely still in winter.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:TomReagan
Even the most critical and despondent fans must recognise that progress takes time.
progress (verb)
1. move forward or onward in space or time.
2. develop towards an improved or more advanced condition.
Bath being 10th after 12 games with the worst defensive record, a defensive record which was really its key positive over the last season really cannot seriously be regarded as progression? Seems to me it's the dictionary definition of regression across the club as a whole. You can't just cherry pick 20 mins across a season IMO and draw a conclusion on that, it's one swallow but Bath are definitely still in winter.
For me the last 3 weeks perhaps have sent out a "false dawn". We have had our backs against the wall due to abstractions, injuries and suspension and a fair few of the lesser known, forgotten and young members of our club have stood up and made a statement about what the club means to them. That only gets you so far unfortunately.
What we all have forgotten is our absolute porous defence and inability to finish chances and Saturday was a perfect example of how quickly we shelve points, open our flood gates and leave a shed load of points on the pitch. Good sides NEVER do that.
The issues which many of us had highlighted are still there. Positives yes there are but there are still many negatives and we were ruthlessly shown up by a Chiefs side short on confidence on the back of 2 defeats ironically from sides we have beaten recently.
The main concerns for me and these are not new revelations amongst us - 1. Lack of a ball carrier - someone who sucks in defenders and has the ability to regularly cross that gain line. 2. Back up front row (cannot say that enough). 3. Defence - find a world class head coach - a Cheika or Schmidt to allow Neal Hatley to concentrate on what he is superb at and finally the age old topic 4. A fly half - I cannot say Schoeman and particular his high veldt tackling technique is lighting my fire (Red Card or Serious shoulder Injury alert) - We lose Rhys next season and yet there is no sign despite relegation being scrapped of us either playing Schoeman at 10 or Bailey - I maybe an old dinosaur but can anyone actually tell me WHY - we are not going to get relegated and to be honest I don't want to see us in the Champions Cup being thrashed by all in sundry - we need to bed a side in - backs who know and trust each other - not thrown together in pre-season and told to get on with it.
We need to prepare NOW for next season when relegation returns and whoever comes up from the Championship will be a challenge and competitive . Recent experiences shows that promoted teams are not necessarily relegation fodder.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:03:08:09:02:45 by Ali1969.
Goodness Ali, you have it bad don't you!
Nobody has said the club has turned a corner but its pretty clear that the 'inside information' that Hooper had lost the changing room was wrong. We have the biggest problems ever selecting a side for a variety of reasons and the team spirit has been excellent so Stuart Hooper is doing something right.
My problem has been that I have felt for a while we were becoming a 1-8 orientated club but recent evidence has proved me wrong. Seeing my club playing running attacking rugby even for 40 mins has been refreshing.
I'm the biggest advocate of giving kids a go but I don't expect them to win games, just to get game time, I won't be judging neither can we say any thing about Tian Schoeman, who has got very little time at 10 and filled in as a utility back. We don't know about his tackling and thats crucial for a centre or full back but he is here for his hand and feet not his shoulder. Wen he has had a couple of games outside Spencer with the back up of Underhill, Bayliss, Reid etc that the time to assess.
All comments about coaches, a new fly half and scrum half are still valid but given where we are and what we are seeing what else can we do different next week?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Nobody has said the club has turned a corner but its pretty clear that the 'inside information' that Hooper had lost the changing room was wrong. We have the biggest problems ever selecting a side for a variety of reasons and the team spirit has been excellent so Stuart Hooper is doing something right.
My problem has been that I have felt for a while we were becoming a 1-8 orientated club but recent evidence has proved me wrong. Seeing my club playing running attacking rugby even for 40 mins has been refreshing.
I'm the biggest advocate of giving kids a go but I don't expect them to win games, just to get game time, I won't be judging neither can we say any thing about Tian Schoeman, who has got very little time at 10 and filled in as a utility back. We don't know about his tackling and thats crucial for a centre or full back but he is here for his hand and feet not his shoulder. Wen he has had a couple of games outside Spencer with the back up of Underhill, Bayliss, Reid etc that the time to assess.
All comments about coaches, a new fly half and scrum half are still valid but given where we are and what we are seeing what else can we do different next week?
I don't think it's fair to take such a negative view of the way this season is progressing. Circumstances could not be more exceptional. The trend over recent years has been gently upwards. This season so far things have just not worked out well. But there are teams above us in the league who have accumulated points from Covid cancellations. Most teams are considerably stronger due to our international call ups and the fact that several England regulars play for a championship side. The salary cap has meant the squad has been thinned and, on top of that, we have continued to see the ridiculous injury list that we have experienced for about the last five seasons.
In my view we are a defence coach, a tight head prop, a second row and a fly half away from being a serious proposition.
In my view we are a defence coach, a tight head prop, a second row and a fly half away from being a serious proposition.
Quote:malco
The trend over recent years has been gently upwards.
Really?
2014: 5th (67 points)
2015: 2nd (75 points)
2016: 9th (48 points)
2017: 5th (59 points)
2018: 6th (56 points)
2019: 6th (56 points)
2020: 4th (67 points) covid affected
2021 (after 12 games): 10th (24 points) covid affected
Any positive moves taken by Bath is ignoring the fact that all the other teams are doing the same thing.
In relation to 'But there are teams above us in the league who have accumulated points from Covid cancellations', that includes Bath (vs Irish). I looked for a table without COVID points but couldn't find one, however I'm not sure there would be a massive change in the current Bath position? It's also the case that Bath did worse with their full team available as opposed to recent wins when they didn't.
I guess you could say Bayliss and Reid but for every one of them developing there is a Mercer and Stooke on the way out (reportedly).
I'm normally pretty positive about all things Bath rugby (certainly in relative terms) but I am really struggling to find the silver lining on this season at the moment.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
As suggested, that 4th place finish last year will always have an asterisk next to it, due to Sale conceding and Sarries giving up their season. Should have been 6th as well.
"A ridiculous injury list these last 5 years"
Not really in the past 2-3 years. No more than other clubs.
These stats from a couple of months ago paint a real picture. 6 red boxes, no green ones. Most points conceded, least runs, fewest breaks, fewest passes, fewest offloads, most tries conceded.
"A ridiculous injury list these last 5 years"
Not really in the past 2-3 years. No more than other clubs.
These stats from a couple of months ago paint a real picture. 6 red boxes, no green ones. Most points conceded, least runs, fewest breaks, fewest passes, fewest offloads, most tries conceded.
I don't understand why our running game plan has ocscillated from all pragmatism and no risk taking to now all risk taking and no pragmatism.
I am really glad we are trying to use our creative players but at 10-0 up kick for the corner and go for the jugular rather than take the 3. I know Rhys's goalkicking is divine at the moment but we need to be more aggressive in going for tries from penalties.
At times in the second half we overplayed when kicking deep would have been fine .... it's better but we need more balance and the ease in which O'Flaherty got to the outside defender almost everytime showed how passive we became in defence. Again we have to back ourselves to get up and close the space early.
Some good bits but it also shows how far behind we are in physicality, fitness and developing a balanced game plan.
I am really glad we are trying to use our creative players but at 10-0 up kick for the corner and go for the jugular rather than take the 3. I know Rhys's goalkicking is divine at the moment but we need to be more aggressive in going for tries from penalties.
At times in the second half we overplayed when kicking deep would have been fine .... it's better but we need more balance and the ease in which O'Flaherty got to the outside defender almost everytime showed how passive we became in defence. Again we have to back ourselves to get up and close the space early.
Some good bits but it also shows how far behind we are in physicality, fitness and developing a balanced game plan.
Quote:Never In Doubt
I don't understand why our running game plan has ocscillated from all pragmatism and no risk taking to now all risk taking and no pragmatism.
I am really glad we are trying to use our creative players but at 10-0 up kick for the corner and go for the jugular rather than take the 3. I know Rhys's goalkicking is divine at the moment but we need to be more aggressive in going for tries from penalties.
At times in the second half we overplayed when kicking deep would have been fine .... it's better but we need more balance and the ease in which O'Flaherty got to the outside defender almost everytime showed how passive we became in defence. Again we have to back ourselves to get up and close the space early.
Some good bits but it also shows how far behind we are in physicality, fitness and developing a balanced game plan.
General lack of strong intelligent leadership on the pitch IMO, playing to a set plan rather than adapting to what is happening in the game.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Simplistically there are two major issues:
1. We don't score enough tries
2. When we do concede we seem to concede heavily, in bunches - often 3 tries in 20 mins.
With a touch more thought, some of our attack has much improved since about halftime vs Quins. We're creating a lot more line breaks, there's more disguise in our attacking patterns and we're offloading more. We're too impatient with trying to immediately make that line break a try through forcing offloads or kicks ahead, and we concede way too many stupid penalties and turnovers.
Our defence issue seems mental. We concede easy scores, we drop when we concede and there are a couple of teams (Ex, Sarries and sadly now Bris) that we just don't seem to think we can beat.
1. We don't score enough tries
2. When we do concede we seem to concede heavily, in bunches - often 3 tries in 20 mins.
With a touch more thought, some of our attack has much improved since about halftime vs Quins. We're creating a lot more line breaks, there's more disguise in our attacking patterns and we're offloading more. We're too impatient with trying to immediately make that line break a try through forcing offloads or kicks ahead, and we concede way too many stupid penalties and turnovers.
Our defence issue seems mental. We concede easy scores, we drop when we concede and there are a couple of teams (Ex, Sarries and sadly now Bris) that we just don't seem to think we can beat.
Quote:hasta
Simplistically there are two major issues:
1. We don't score enough tries
2. When we do concede we seem to concede heavily, in bunches - often 3 tries in 20 mins.
With a touch more thought, some of our attack has much improved since about halftime vs Quins. We're creating a lot more line breaks, there's more disguise in our attacking patterns and we're offloading more. We're too impatient with trying to immediately make that line break a try through forcing offloads or kicks ahead, and we concede way too many stupid penalties and turnovers.
Our defence issue seems mental. We concede easy scores, we drop when we concede and there are a couple of teams (Ex, Sarries and sadly now Bris) that we just don't seem to think we can beat.
I feel bad about highlighting him in particular but Josh M needs to get fitter as he looked great in the first quarter but tires quickly and then misses a boat load of tackles - its no coincidence that the inside passes from the second receiver were getting so much joy. I think that having Cam R back in the team will make a big difference then Josh can get back to 30 mins at a time.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Optimist
I think Hooper has bought himself another season.
I think what actually bought Hooper another season was the scrapping of relegation. All that means though is another season waiting for the right coaching setup to start moving in the right direction.
Losing Redpath to Int rugby quite so soon was a little bit unlucky. JM has done some great things for us and brought a bit of joy, but wasn't really signed to be a nailed-on starter.
I do also think that we could do with a top jackler. It seemed pretty impossible to get the ball back off Exe at the breakdown at the weekend - an Underhill and Reid turnover each being the exceptions. I think that we need more turnover threats than that (particularly if we are going to give way possession easily through knock ons etc).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
In the second half against Northampton, we were getting tonked, then the backs made a difference and the game turned. On Saturday they came out trying to play rugby, non safety rugby.
Could the players specifically the backs have got Hooper to ditch the 8/10 man plan, given there's no way we were going to out Exeter, Exeter? As to be honest we are useless at it. I also noticed JJ and JC looked like different players. Muir and McC seem to just do their thing regardless, so does Mercer tbh.
It was fun for 20 minutes and I'd prefer to watch that than the other rubbish, but I can't see any real direction of travel.
I'm intrigued to see what happens next week.
Could the players specifically the backs have got Hooper to ditch the 8/10 man plan, given there's no way we were going to out Exeter, Exeter? As to be honest we are useless at it. I also noticed JJ and JC looked like different players. Muir and McC seem to just do their thing regardless, so does Mercer tbh.
It was fun for 20 minutes and I'd prefer to watch that than the other rubbish, but I can't see any real direction of travel.
I'm intrigued to see what happens next week.
Quote:Optimist
Losing Redpath to Int rugby quite so soon was a little bit unlucky. JM has done some great things for us and brought a bit of joy, but wasn't really signed to be a nailed-on starter.
Agree we have been unlucky with redpath.
For me matevesi is a fantastic squad man as a third choice 12 and a fourth choice 10. Reliable man to come in to the 23 when you are struggling with a few injuries.
Sadly most of his time here he as been second choice in both positions.
Quote:malco
In my view we are a defence coach, a tight head prop, a second row and a fly half away from being a serious proposition.
This is my glass half full summary as well. I don't really see the value in being relentlessly pessimistic otherwise being a supporter becomes rather soul sapping.
I would add dave williams coming in and doing a good job to that list. Also a back up to spencer breaking out of the ranks in our squad , or signing someone.
For me squad depth is huge and trusting the squad. Lots of players have been exposed to game time this season which should stand us in good stead if we manage them right going forward.
If we could get our first choice pack playing the rugby our revitalised backs displayed first half on Saturday who wouldn't watch that irrespective of the result. As you say CB photocopying that team for strength in depth is the big problem. You have to say though hat depth exists in our back 3 already!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:TomReagan
I don't mind if he did or didn't, although the papers reported it. It's a view held by many people. The point I was trying to make was that if Bath players offered similar views it would be more likely that they'd be criticised by Bath fans looking to find evidence of a culture that has bred under-achievement. When you're successful that's not going to happen.
I totally agree with this. There are one or two who are always drawing conclusions like this to justify poor performance levels. Invariably the assumptions made are totally unproven & there’s no way the person making the comments knows the actual situation. Also, the comments made are often disproved by the actions & comments of players & even commentators who are more in the know than we are. I’m quite happy with balanced & logical criticism but comments about a drinking culture being the cause of our failings is another example of that.
Quote:shipwrecked
If we could get our first choice pack playing the rugby our revitalised backs displayed first half on Saturday who wouldn't watch that irrespective of the result. As you say CB photocopying that team for strength in depth is the big problem. You have to say though hat depth exists in our back 3 already!
I guess our second choice backrow would be ellis, reid, bayliss? On recent showings I wouldn't be upset seeing that trio.
Back 3 definitely no issue as you say.....I think we have far too much cap tied up in those positions personally.
The problem isn't even that we have so much cap tied up in the back three, it's that we have so much cap tied up in the back three (and to some extent the back row) that we don't get to see on the pitch enough to justify it.
Quote:hasta
The problem isn't even that we have so much cap tied up in the back three, it's that we have so much cap tied up in the back three (and to some extent the back row) that we don't get to see on the pitch enough to justify it.
Basically the squad balance is all wrong, far too many players missing on international duty and in particular with England.
I would agree, but with the caveat that very few of them (with the exception of Faletau) were signed as internationals.
Quote:hasta
I would agree, but with the caveat that very few of them (with the exception of Faletau) were signed as internationals.
Yep, hugely difficult balancing act. If you sign 'journeymen' with no chance of international honours people will moan.
I think the trick we have missed is to sign unbelievably good players who have forsaken international honours like luatua and piatiau. Easy to get horribly wrong though as well as spectacularly right like those 2!
Quote:hasta
I would agree, but with the caveat that very few of them (with the exception of Faletau) were signed as internationals.
I think that a few of them were certainly flagged as being immanent internationals, Underhill for example. Joseph has been selected in the 2012 summer tour then joined Bath in 2013. Even Watson and Stuart were young but earmarked for greatness, with Watson joining for Sept 2013 season and selected in the 2014 6N squad a few months later. Faletau was obviously well established.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Hi, Chiefs fan in peace.
Lots of good logical summaries of your performance v Chiefs on your forum, just wanted to throw an outsiders opinion into the mix !
Lots of love and praise for Spencer, but for me, in many ways he adds to your problem. For every wow factor thing he does, there are things he does badly. His stats in defence are amongst, if not the worst in the league. Tackles made 18, tackles missed 19, that’s 49% success !! Maunder’s stats are 38 tackles made, 6 missed, 86% success. Maunder doesn’t make sniping breaks or try flashy moves, but he does the basics well and is very much a team player, rather than a bit of a maverick. Bath have the players to produce results but if those players are defending like Spencer is, you’re going to concede a lot of points.
Lots of good logical summaries of your performance v Chiefs on your forum, just wanted to throw an outsiders opinion into the mix !
Lots of love and praise for Spencer, but for me, in many ways he adds to your problem. For every wow factor thing he does, there are things he does badly. His stats in defence are amongst, if not the worst in the league. Tackles made 18, tackles missed 19, that’s 49% success !! Maunder’s stats are 38 tackles made, 6 missed, 86% success. Maunder doesn’t make sniping breaks or try flashy moves, but he does the basics well and is very much a team player, rather than a bit of a maverick. Bath have the players to produce results but if those players are defending like Spencer is, you’re going to concede a lot of points.
Not sure you will get many agreeing with you on here, we love mavericks at Bath, I want the snipes and the wow moves. He wasn't recruited to tackle we have Underhill, Reid, Bayliss and Faletau to do that. Thanks for commenting but Maunder suits your style, Spencer suits ours, besides Beauden Barrett will want some decent fast service when he comes!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Ben gives us lots of positives though B a and is much more than a maverick.
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