Bath
THE FLIGHT OF THE FALCON. BATH V NEWCASTLE FALCONS
Reid: predator
By PG Tips
September 21 2021
Both teams will be seeking their first win of the season when Newcastle Falcons visit Bath on Saturday. Both gained losing bonus points last weekend and gave more fancied opponents a fright with aggressive fightbacks after conceding early leads. Bath, away at Sale lost by a single point and almost snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Falcons will feel the more confident though, their fluent attack bringing three tries against last season’s champions. So will Falcons get their beaks and talons into soft Bath flesh, or can the hosts put them to flight?
The new season got off to a fascinating start last weekend, promising a shakeup of last season’s pecking order. None of 2021’s top four had it all their own way, leaders Bristol and Exeter beaten without a consolation point, third placed Sale and Champions Quins scraping through by a combined margin of seven points. With Saints triumphant, Worcester, Gloucester and London Irish all in try scoring mood, all clubs will fancy their chances. There will be no easy “gimmes”. This could be the most competitive campaign for years.
Newcastle’s biggest strength would seem to be in the forwards. New England squad men Blamire, Davison, Robinson and Chick joining the more established Mark Wilson during the summer. An already abrasive and competitive pack have been reinforced by their international experience and the signing of former Bath man Carl Fearns. They are equally well served on the wings, summer sensation Adam Radwan and Iwan Stephens carved gaping gaps in Quins’ defence. Three new recruits from Quins- Earle, Lindsay-Hague and Brown will strengthen their backline further.
For this tie Falcons could be without Wilson and Chick, but their absence should be more than compensated by Fearns. It is behind the scrum where they may rue absent experience, Michael Young, Luther Burrell and possibly Mike Brown could all miss the match through injury. Those that do travel south will be driven to prove Sunday’s performance was no fluke.
Bath’s evolution got off to a slow start at Sale. A scrum under pressure and passive defence allowed the Sharks a 17-point lead before a patient fightback began. For all the signs of a revived attack, the sole try came from a prop driving over from close range. Willingness to attack from deep, and indeed, better identification of opportunity and crisper passing were too often undone by a loose final pass. Better execution will be needed to blunt these Falcons talons.
There are likely to be changes to the starting XV. Jaco Coetzee could start, to give the home team more go-forward early on. There may be rewards too for those who brought greater set piece stability in the second half, Schoeman and Ellis. Bath’s early struggles at the scrum showed how much they miss the two best scrummaging locks, McNally and Spencer. If either is fit, they must surely be in contention, as will Will Stuart as soon as he is ready. We could see a youthful half-back pairing. Neither Ben Spencer nor Danny Cipriani are guaranteed to be fit. Their replacements, Fox and Bailey showed up well at Kingston Park. They could bear a heavy load of responsibility on Saturday afternoon.
With Bristol, Saracens and Harlequins as Bath’s next three opponents, this fixture takes on a greater significance. If Bath’s new style is to succeed, it needs the momentum not only of performance but success. Bath need to find a way to win. If that means pragmatism before promise, defence before daring, so be it. Falcons will pounce if given half a chance. Bath should have their own predators Underhill and Reid plunder the visitors midfield, create chaos to rout the raptors. Bath need to take an early lead, get on top of their visitors and keep turning the screw. That way the breaks will come and they can unleash their dangerous backs. David Williams has spoken of performance as “non-negotiable”. On Saturday, victory, however gained, should be too.
Possible Teams:
Bath: Obano, Dunn, Jonker, Ewels, Williams, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee. Fox, Bailey. Rokodoguni, Ojomoh, Joseph, Muir. De Glanville.
Replacements: Schoeman, Du Toit, Rae, Ellis, Bayliss. Green, Clarke, Butt.
Newcastle Falcons: Mulipola, McGuigan, Davison, Peterson, Robinson, van Der Walt, Welch, Fearns. Schreuder, Connon. Stephens, Lucock, Stephenson, Radwan. Brown.
Replacements: Blamire, Cooper, Tampin, Fuser, Collett. Nodley-Kelemetti, Haydon-Wood, Penny
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 21/09/2021 09:45
21/09/2021 09:45
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:10:33:03 by P G Tips.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:10:33:03 by P G Tips.
Think Hoops stated Cips stayed off as a precaution rather than a failed HIA albeit he has to go through the necessary protocols Hoops appeared positive he would be fit. Spencer on the other hand is another matter sounds quite serious and could be a lengthy absence.
See with England naming their training squad our only current fit lock has been named (Deep Joy) along with both Bemo and Stuart but no Tom Dunn (can only think it is his lineout which let's him down).
Could be a great match up and an interesting watch Fernsy against Jaco if selected.
We just have to be positive and take to our home field with an aggression and determination Tigers showed, we owe Falcons one for last season and personally I think that defeat was a catalyst which conspired with a number of other poor aspects within the group and of course Covid to our dire last season.
See with England naming their training squad our only current fit lock has been named (Deep Joy) along with both Bemo and Stuart but no Tom Dunn (can only think it is his lineout which let's him down).
Could be a great match up and an interesting watch Fernsy against Jaco if selected.
We just have to be positive and take to our home field with an aggression and determination Tigers showed, we owe Falcons one for last season and personally I think that defeat was a catalyst which conspired with a number of other poor aspects within the group and of course Covid to our dire last season.
Quote:Ali1969
Think Hoops stated Cips stayed off as a precaution rather than a failed HIA albeit he has to go through the necessary protocols
If that is the case he should be straight back in to the starting XV. I thought Bailey looked good though.
PG
Injury updates trickling in. JC our for 2 months with a knee. Surgery fortunately not required. [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Spencer’s done a hamstring. No surgery but out for a while. A great, great shame. Just when we had, on paper, halfbacks that could compete with the best, his injury seems a massive blow.
Big chance for Fox and Green, but we’re sure going to miss Spencer over the next few months in so many ways.
Big chance for Fox and Green, but we’re sure going to miss Spencer over the next few months in so many ways.
Concerning 1 game into the season and our injury list potentily long term is mounting.
Big players and the DoR already talking about "scanning the market" for replacements on top of our obvious need for a lock and hooker.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:21:16:05:43 by Ali1969.
Big players and the DoR already talking about "scanning the market" for replacements on top of our obvious need for a lock and hooker.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:21:16:05:43 by Ali1969.
Tom Carr-Smith was back up to Jack van Poortfleit in the England U20s JvP backed up the Tiggers starter. Every one says how good he is. So can TC-S be such a bad 3rd choice?
Agree. Sure TC-S is a very good up and coming 9. Excited to see what he, Fox and Green can bring.
Just such a shame that one of the key cogs in our push for top 4/6 is out for so long and so early. Was so excited to see our new style develop under Spencer’s guidance and game management. Sure he’ll come back before too long but just a shame for him and for the team given how critical this period is for the players, coaching staff and club as a whole.
Just such a shame that one of the key cogs in our push for top 4/6 is out for so long and so early. Was so excited to see our new style develop under Spencer’s guidance and game management. Sure he’ll come back before too long but just a shame for him and for the team given how critical this period is for the players, coaching staff and club as a whole.
Needed Fox and Green to get more game time last year and needed the Prem Cup for TC-S to get more game time. Looks like both situations should get resolved this season!
And finally, Cips, McC and Stuart may feature this weekend. Faletau I think they are resting a bit longer. If there is no Cips I guess it’s Bailey to start and who backs up? Deegs?
Quote:hemington
Tom Carr-Smith was back up to Jack van Poortfleit in the England U20s JvP backed up the Tiggers starter. Every one says how good he is. So can TC-S be such a bad 3rd choice?
TCS looks a good prospect. Behind jvp and quirke but they are both a school year older and exceptional for their age.
Quote:Rawce
And finally, Cips, McC and Stuart may feature this weekend. Faletau I think they are resting a bit longer. If there is no Cips I guess it’s Bailey to start and who backs up? Deegs?
Worboys maybe?
Not ideal. Imagine cips will miss 1 game max.
Sounds like schoeman will be out for a few more months. Always was a bit of a risk letting josh go with schoeman and redpath out.
Agree re faletau, would be surprised to see him this week but think they may involve him after that.
Not too bothered about who plays tbh, modern rugby is all about using the squad and there will be times in the season when key players are unavailable for various reasons. The management went into the season knowing this so they must have a plan in place. For me its more about pressing on with the way that Bath want to play vs a team that likes playing against teams that play loose (as we saw vs Quins).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
No mention of McNally or W Spencer. I suspect we will field a makeshift second row for another week.
PG
PG
I cant go on Saturday but had a look at tickets - typically less than 10% in the better sections but still some left
[www.eticketing.co.uk]
Pricey though my old seat going for £51.50
[www.eticketing.co.uk]
Pricey though my old seat going for £51.50
Quote:Wouldn’t that have been Juan at Loosehead?bathstigg
Tian Schoeman I thought I saw as a bench sub so maybe he is fit again?
Quote:woodpecker
I cant go on Saturday but had a look at tickets - typically less than 10% in the better sections but still some left
[www.eticketing.co.uk]
Pricey though my old seat going for £51.50
Seem to be quite a lot of seats available so ground nowhere near full, wonder if there will be very few Falcons fans making the trip this time?
Quote:Rawce
Wouldn’t that have been Juan at Loosehead?
I'd be concerned with only Juan Loosehead in the 23. Normally you need at least two, Juan starter and Juan on the bench ...
I have no worries about Fox filling the 9 shirt, he was lively v Cardiff and effective v Sale. Bailey looks far more composed than last season and gets better each time I watch him. No relegation this season so no need to worry as much about this result though I want us to win. After watching two games I really like the way we are developing and will be at the rec to see that continue
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Think I would go:
Tdg
Rmc
JJ
Mojo
Muir
Cips
Fox
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Williams
Reid
Underhill
Bayliss
Bench: schoeman, du toit, jonker, ellis, coetzee, green, bailey, roko
Looks decent to me tho desperately need one of spencer/mcnally back ASAP imho. Newcastle looked good to me on Sunday but if we have any ambition of top 4/6 this season we must win games like this
Tdg
Rmc
JJ
Mojo
Muir
Cips
Fox
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Williams
Reid
Underhill
Bayliss
Bench: schoeman, du toit, jonker, ellis, coetzee, green, bailey, roko
Looks decent to me tho desperately need one of spencer/mcnally back ASAP imho. Newcastle looked good to me on Sunday but if we have any ambition of top 4/6 this season we must win games like this
Mine would probably be (subject to all being fit):
Tdg
Rmc
JJ
Max O (or Max Clark)
Muir
Cips
Fox
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Bayliss
Reid
Underhill
coetzee
Bench: Boyce, Doughty, Jonker, Ellis, Williams, Green, Bailey, Butt (or Max Clark)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Tdg
Rmc
JJ
Max O (or Max Clark)
Muir
Cips
Fox
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Bayliss
Reid
Underhill
coetzee
Bench: Boyce, Doughty, Jonker, Ellis, Williams, Green, Bailey, Butt (or Max Clark)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Good team matt- mobile and pacey.
Do we know if Boyce is OK? Hoops said last month he was fully fit but wasn't part of the squad for Cardiff. Hopefully that was just a niggle.
Do we know if Boyce is OK? Hoops said last month he was fully fit but wasn't part of the squad for Cardiff. Hopefully that was just a niggle.
Yes I was also wondering about him - he was solid in the scrum and pacy around the field when he got the injury, was hoping to see him back on the field ASAP.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
JJ has a long way to go to justify his current selection. Seeing team selections taking Mojo out for Clark is replacing the wrong player. Clark is currently the clubs best 13 unless Joesph does something dramatic to stop his slide.
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
JJ has a long way to go to justify his current selection. Seeing team selections taking Mojo out for Clark is replacing the wrong player. Clark is currently the clubs best 13 unless Joesph does something dramatic to stop his slide.
My swapping of Max O for Clarke and Butt to bench was more related to JJ being able to play wing and 13 with Max O really being a 12 most of his rugby career. JJ is also a good defensive 13 which is definitely needed when up against Radwan. Clarke and Butt have regularly played both positions so is a squad decision to allow shuffling if needed.
On form I agree that both the 12 and 13 positions are up for grabs from any of the centres which is a nice position to be in.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I would say that JJ was a good defensive 13, he's not been up to his standard for a long time. Arguably this decline started in the Bristol game when he waved Radradra through and got dropped by England the following week. JJ then broke lockdown rules and Stooke got caught drink driving. It proved to be a turning point into truly disappointing form. If I have to watch his stop, step and get tackled again I may cry.
I want JJ to do well. I want him to recapture his international quality but he has a long way to go to prove it imo. On balance of hope and expectations I would likely also select JJ to defend Radwan and would hope that he gets to play with Cips when we have the ball, instead of depending for 40mins.
However, depending on this game, at home in front of crowds for the first time in a long time, if he doesn't put in a performance I would select Clark at 13 regardless of the impact of dropping the 'big' name. Butt played 13 and even wing (?) for Coventry I believe so I would have no hesitancy of selecting him on the bench.
I want JJ to do well. I want him to recapture his international quality but he has a long way to go to prove it imo. On balance of hope and expectations I would likely also select JJ to defend Radwan and would hope that he gets to play with Cips when we have the ball, instead of depending for 40mins.
However, depending on this game, at home in front of crowds for the first time in a long time, if he doesn't put in a performance I would select Clark at 13 regardless of the impact of dropping the 'big' name. Butt played 13 and even wing (?) for Coventry I believe so I would have no hesitancy of selecting him on the bench.
I have a lot of sympathy for JJ as neither Bath or England have given him the sort of games to get him excited about playing for a while. A lot of chasing kicks, backwards and forwards and 10s (apart from Ford) who tend to either kick or shovel the ball on. I am hopeful this seasons Bath setup will be better for him.
Quote:B4thB4ck
I have a lot of sympathy for JJ as neither Bath or England have given him the sort of games to get him excited about playing for a while. A lot of chasing kicks, backwards and forwards and 10s (apart from Ford) who tend to either kick or shovel the ball on. I am hopeful this seasons Bath setup will be better for him.
And even playing with Ford for England he has had to endure a kicking dominated game
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
Clark is currently the clubs best 13 unless Joesph does something dramatic to stop his slide.
I feel as though Clark (now) is being compared with Clark (of the last 5 seasons) and it's only that which is making people say things like the above. He put in some good performances last season and kept his fitness for a decent period - but he's been a professional Premiership rugby player for 6-7 years now so of course he's going to be quite good at rugby. But to pick him ahead of Joseph - not in a 100 years.
Personally think JJ is a class above but as alluded to it does depend on what the coaches want/need from a 13.
Clark stayed fit and did well last season.
Prob an argument to say he should be in at 12 ahead of mojo but I would much prefer to see mojo get the shirt myself.
Clark stayed fit and did well last season.
Prob an argument to say he should be in at 12 ahead of mojo but I would much prefer to see mojo get the shirt myself.
Teams up:
Bath Rugby side to play Newcastle Falcons
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Johannes Jonker, 4 Mike Williams, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Beno Obano, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Tom Ellis, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Max Green, 22 Will Butt, 23 Max Clark
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Bath Rugby side to play Newcastle Falcons
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Johannes Jonker, 4 Mike Williams, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Jacques du Toit, 17 Beno Obano, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Tom Ellis, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Max Green, 22 Will Butt, 23 Max Clark
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
I have definitely seen stronger Bath sides, no back up 10 on the bench.
Reckon Falcons will fancy their chances of repeating last year's victory. I would expect injury allowing Falcons will pick Fearnsy at 8, not that he needs it but extra incentive given his acrimonious departure from our club, seems strange that we haven't started with Jaco.
Beno on bench??
To make matters worse I have just seen Craig M-Keys is officiating- just when I thought things couldn't get worse for us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:12:14:10 by Ali1969.
Reckon Falcons will fancy their chances of repeating last year's victory. I would expect injury allowing Falcons will pick Fearnsy at 8, not that he needs it but extra incentive given his acrimonious departure from our club, seems strange that we haven't started with Jaco.
Beno on bench??
To make matters worse I have just seen Craig M-Keys is officiating- just when I thought things couldn't get worse for us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:12:14:10 by Ali1969.
Oh well - Spencer + Cipriani will have to wait.
Still, good test for Fox and Bailey, and everywhere else across the 23 is quality and experience.
Injury to others is still the most proven way for young players to get on the pitch and make a name for themselves.
Still, good test for Fox and Bailey, and everywhere else across the 23 is quality and experience.
Injury to others is still the most proven way for young players to get on the pitch and make a name for themselves.
Hoping we don't get any backline injuries, I presume TdG is backup 10, not sure who'd go to 15 though
Quote:OptimistQuote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
Clark is currently the clubs best 13 unless Joesph does something dramatic to stop his slide.
I feel as though Clark (now) is being compared with Clark (of the last 5 seasons) and it's only that which is making people say things like the above. He put in some good performances last season and kept his fitness for a decent period - but he's been a professional Premiership rugby player for 6-7 years now so of course he's going to be quite good at rugby. But to pick him ahead of Joseph - not in a 100 years.
The counter Opti is that I feel as though JJ (now) is being compared with JJ (of 5 seasons ago) and it's only that which is making you say things like the above! JJ c2015 was amazing but we haven't seen that - admittedly primarily because of the God-awful way Bath has played most of the last 5 years - since. For me right now i'm not fussed which of Clark and JJ is selected.
In relation to that team for tomorrow - I'm concerned in almost all areas of the 23, from the backup props through the makeshift locks, the inexperienced half backs and Roko trying to counter their electric wingers...but it will be great to be back at the Rec so bring it on.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
With so many different faces this is nearly impossible to predict. I am not too concerned with youth and new arrivals, more so that we have the right shaped pegs in the right holes. Agree that OB getting injured could end up with a big re shuffle which is 'sub optimal' (ugly phrase) as I can't see who would cover 15 best if TdG moved up. Roko?
That's a very callow and inexperienced 9, 10, 12 coupled with a makeshit No 8.....
If OB19 goes off, I'd expect TdG to 10 and Roko to 15, JJ to wing and one of Clark or Butt to 13. Big disruption.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:13:03:20 by Dorset Boy.
If OB19 goes off, I'd expect TdG to 10 and Roko to 15, JJ to wing and one of Clark or Butt to 13. Big disruption.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:13:03:20 by Dorset Boy.
Falcons lineup:
15 Tom Penny, 14 Adam Radwan, 13 Ben Stevenson, 12 Pete Lucock, 11 Iwan Stephens, 10 Will Haydon-Wood, 9 Louis Schreuder; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 George McGuigan, 3 Richard Palframan, 4 Greg Peterson, 5 Sean Robinson, 6 Philip van der Walt, 7 Will Welch (captain), 8 Carl Fearns.
Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Marco Fuser, 20 Gary Graham, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Brett Connon, 23 George Wacokecoke.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
15 Tom Penny, 14 Adam Radwan, 13 Ben Stevenson, 12 Pete Lucock, 11 Iwan Stephens, 10 Will Haydon-Wood, 9 Louis Schreuder; 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 George McGuigan, 3 Richard Palframan, 4 Greg Peterson, 5 Sean Robinson, 6 Philip van der Walt, 7 Will Welch (captain), 8 Carl Fearns.
Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Marco Fuser, 20 Gary Graham, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Brett Connon, 23 George Wacokecoke.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Fair enought BM. There's no doubt that JJ isn't the player he was, and it's hard to tell whether he's just lost that zip of pace, or if he's struggling motivation-wise with the come-down of his International career hitting the buffers. But then again, JJ minus 20% is still about 20% above peak Max Clark ... IMO. However, I'd really like to see what Clark could do with a decent run of fitness within a side that's generally performing well.
Fox + Bailey really is one of those tests of whether we have a 'club style/system' that squad players can drop into, or we are still just a bunch of good players giving it a lash.
Fox + Bailey really is one of those tests of whether we have a 'club style/system' that squad players can drop into, or we are still just a bunch of good players giving it a lash.
Off the top of my head I can't remember a younger starting 9, 10 and 12 for a Premiership game than those out there on Saturday. Did TDG, Max O and Fox play together at England U20s?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
That Falcons back 3 must be one of the fastest back 3 in the Premiership.
As expected Falcons have picked their most combatant back row.
We have to trust in the squad but with this home match and the next 2 against Bears and Sarries best we hope for our injuries to heal sharpish or the guillotine will be out once more for Hoops even before Europe.
Interesting on the BBC podcast whilst Danny Care and Chris Jones were waxing lyrical about Sarries coaching hierarchy Jones made a direct dig at Hooper, stating certain clubs promote ex-players to DoR within 2 years ÷ certainly in the context of the conversation it was exampling what he believes is right way compared to the wrong way.. Cannot think of another club that fits that criteria except us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:15:19:55 by Ali1969.
As expected Falcons have picked their most combatant back row.
We have to trust in the squad but with this home match and the next 2 against Bears and Sarries best we hope for our injuries to heal sharpish or the guillotine will be out once more for Hoops even before Europe.
Interesting on the BBC podcast whilst Danny Care and Chris Jones were waxing lyrical about Sarries coaching hierarchy Jones made a direct dig at Hooper, stating certain clubs promote ex-players to DoR within 2 years ÷ certainly in the context of the conversation it was exampling what he believes is right way compared to the wrong way.. Cannot think of another club that fits that criteria except us.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:15:19:55 by Ali1969.
Certainly there have been plenty of times when our side has been jam-packed with “experience” & “quality” but you’d never have guessed it from the performance. I’m happy to see how things go before assuming the worst.
Jones is high profile so the media love to drag controversial comments out of him. Much better to be a DoR who is under the radar and focuses on the important stuff. I would be happy with Bath creating a siege mentality, it works well in sport I think.
Quite glad its not on live TV! Not going to be easy at all - this will be one of those potential away wins targeted by Richards
Quote:I made the same mistake last year and look how that turned out. Home advantage and an open style to get us over the line methinks. Keep it out of their back three, job done, this coaching and punditry lark is a breeze.Dorset Boy
Is it wrong to admit that I've only heard of 7 of that Falcons squad?!
Quote:Rawce
an open style to get us over the line methinks. Keep it out of their back three
That's my concern, open style means risks of counter attacks and they will lap them up. My prediction is Bath win 65 - 64*, COYB!
[*it will obviously be 3-3 now...]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
There were signs against Sale that our attacking game has taken some strides forward but I worry about our defensive capability as we still have Hately fitting that in with his head coach responsibilities. Newcastle have try scoring capabilities on their day.
That’s quite an underwhelming Bath lineup, not often we are worse on paper than the opposition but this might be one of those occasions.
When I saw the fixture list I expected this to be one of the few TBP wins for Bath, don’t see that happening now.
Big test for our DOR and his coaching team, let’s hope they are up to the task.
When I saw the fixture list I expected this to be one of the few TBP wins for Bath, don’t see that happening now.
Big test for our DOR and his coaching team, let’s hope they are up to the task.
So dioes anyone know whether Cipriani failed the rtp protocol, or does he just not fancy this one, or has he done a Scoeman and got injured in the first game? Given the next two games look harder to get anything from than this one I thought we'd be going hell for leather for the win; - heres hoping we put in a performance and get the win despite the underwhelming selections.
Quote:NotColin
or does he just not fancy this one
Not a kind comment, and uncalled for.
Quote:NotColin
So dioes anyone know whether Cipriani failed the rtp protocol, or does he just not fancy this one, or has he done a Scoeman and got injured in the first game? Given the next two games look harder to get anything from than this one I thought we'd be going hell for leather for the win; - heres hoping we put in a performance and get the win despite the underwhelming selections.
In the injury update a few days back it said 'Danny Cipriani’s place in the 10 jersey for what would be his home debut for Bath Rugby this weekend remains dependant on his response to testing after suffering a blow to the head at the weekend.'
Somerset Live injury update
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:24:21:16:00 by Maeght.
Quote:You think Cips is saving himself for the easier fixtures, like Briz away?? He took a bang to the head. Schoeman was badly injured after playing 6 games, not on his debut. Still disappointingly early in his Bath career but that's how things go.NotColin
So dioes anyone know whether Cipriani failed the rtp protocol, or does he just not fancy this one, or has he done a Scoeman and got injured in the first game? Given the next two games look harder to get anything from than this one I thought we'd be going hell for leather for the win; - heres hoping we put in a performance and get the win despite the underwhelming selections.
So we think he failed the testing - has this been confirmed by the club?
Or maybe he passed the tests but is injured in some other way - but he wasn't, injured on Thursday?
Or maybe he passed the tests but is injured in some other way - but he wasn't, injured on Thursday?
Not seen any confirmation from the club but based on the update I posted it seems likely he failed the testing. It's possible I suppose that he didn't and has been injured in training but we'll have to see how long he is out for. It's a shame his home debut will be delayed, especially at the same time as Spencer being injured. Very disappointing.
At this stage in is career it was always likely that he would miss quite a few games. I believe he did at Gloucester. If Radacanu can win the US Open at 19 we have to believe that Bailey is as good as all the hype. I’ve always been impressed with Fox so hopefully these ti youngsters can deliver!
Which tyler- how many of your first xv are in the xv today?
For me it's only 5-6 maybe. Tough challenge but really should win if we want to achieve anything this season.
For me it's only 5-6 maybe. Tough challenge but really should win if we want to achieve anything this season.
Oddschecker has Bath odds on at 2/5 for this one...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Quote:Clarkey3k
Oddschecker has Bath odds on at 2/5 for this one...
Newcastle at 9/4 look decent odds [if I were a betting person that's where my dosh would go!]
Quote:Clarkey3k
Oddschecker has Bath odds on at 2/5 for this one...
Bookies don’t often get it wrong, but think they have made a serious mistake making Bath odds on favourites.
Quote:gaz59Quote:Clarkey3k
Oddschecker has Bath odds on at 2/5 for this one...
Newcastle at 9/4 look decent odds [if I were a betting person that's where my dosh would go!]
Bathmatt might have a punt on that...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Looks like Radio Bristol for me. A similar sense of anticipation as a trip to the dentist.
Quote:6 first choice starterscharlieboa
Which tyler- how many of your first xv are in the xv today?
For me it's only 5-6 maybe. Tough challenge but really should win if we want to achieve anything this season.
5 second choice starters
4 third choice starters
1.87th choice starting XV
RAEBURN SHIELD
Radwan unconverted try; Coochie commentating on unnecessary Bath penalties; Falcons penalty; Underhill injured?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:25:15:28:02 by Mike the Taxi.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:25:15:28:02 by Mike the Taxi.
Wish I wasn’t at the game truly awful by Bath, Hooper should be embarrassed.
Quote:OutsideBath
Wish I wasn’t at the game truly awful by Bath, Hooper should be embarrassed.
Could you give those of us not at the game a bit of detail on that OB? Just the scoreline or are we not in the game at all?
Yep, very long season indeed. Still , they can fight back again like last week.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Sigh, sounds like yet another false dawn. Heard lots about the 'new style', but sounds quite a lot like the old one..
How can we be so far from even being at the races, let alone being competitive? I appreciate we are light in a lot of places but surely with the talent we have - lots of full or U20 England internationals, we should at least be able to give Falcons a run for their money at home!
How can we be so far from even being at the races, let alone being competitive? I appreciate we are light in a lot of places but surely with the talent we have - lots of full or U20 England internationals, we should at least be able to give Falcons a run for their money at home!
Quote:hanuman
Flats really scathing on the tv commentry
Any info on how you’re watching a TV commentary? Has anybody found a stream? (Not that it sounds an inspiring watch!)
All I can say is: Thank God there is no relegation this season!
Sam Underhill - Adopted Player 2023-24
Johannes Jonker - Adopted Player 2022-23
Sam Underhill - Adopted Player 2021-22
Juan Schoeman - Adopted Player 2020-21
Max Green - Adopted Player 2019-20
Francois Louw - Adopted Player 2018-19
Luke Charteris - Adopted player 2017-18
Sam Underhill - Adopted Player 2023-24
Johannes Jonker - Adopted Player 2022-23
Sam Underhill - Adopted Player 2021-22
Juan Schoeman - Adopted Player 2020-21
Max Green - Adopted Player 2019-20
Francois Louw - Adopted Player 2018-19
Luke Charteris - Adopted player 2017-18
Radio commentary says we look very “ ordinary “ . Yes, what do you expect from the team taking the field. Ordinary indeed
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Quote:hantssabre
I’m sure Bristol will break their duck on Friday!
I wouldn't count on it. We've looked more like an Andy Robinson side (utter dross) than a Pat Lam side (top 4 team).
I don't see it changing. Semi might be back but the problems are bigger than that. No 12, no pace in the wide channels, no premiership standard 12, a defence that has regressed 3 years.
If Cips is fit he'll tear us new one. Hell I'm a season card holder and am considering not bothering because I can't watch us lose you!
Just back from the game - well back to the drawing board. First half was atrocious and 2nd half only better because Falcons switched off. They could've made that more embarrassing if they had remained focused. Didn't see anything we did in the second half to give me any confidence we were ever going to win that. There was no penetration, plenty of sideways running, but easily defended. Last 5 mins was the best we put together against a tired Falcon side as they had put lot more into it than we did. Lineout poor, scrum very poor, so no set piece and to cap it all off, Underhill looks as if he's out for a while. All in all a great return to the Rec.
Whoever our penalty coach is needs a pay rise because it’s a facet of our game doing really well. Set piece struggling, no possession, rare attacking moves looked more like week 1 than week 10 of training, actual breaks led to panic and often comical loss of possession - sadly reflected by the usual match day experience.
2 mediocre teams and Bath had absolutely no fire in their belly. And listening to Maxwell House on ref link he didn't sound like a man exercising his authority, just a lot of meaningless chatter
You have to do better Bath - I haven't been waiting for 18 months to come back to that.
You have to do better Bath - I haven't been waiting for 18 months to come back to that.
Max Ojomo was great today. We're not going to win much this season - but is that a surprise? Get behind the kids - they need the support
Quote:abendanon-anon-anon
Just back from the game - well back to the drawing board. First half was atrocious and 2nd half only better because Falcons switched off. They could've made that more embarrassing if they had remained focused. Didn't see anything we did in the second half to give me any confidence we were ever going to win that. There was no penetration, plenty of sideways running, but easily defended. Last 5 mins was the best we put together against a tired Falcon side as they had put lot more into it than we did. Lineout poor, scrum very poor, so no set piece and to cap it all off, Underhill looks as if he's out for a while. All in all a great return to the Rec.
We were at Sale and at The Rec today and I have to say I agree completely with the above. We have been unlucky with injuries, but today as well as playing poorly we made some silly mistakes and some poor decisions. Personally I think 2 LBPs flatter us, and I can see our league position worsening after the next two games.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Clarkey3k
Oddschecker has Bath odds on at 2/5 for this one...
Bookies don’t often get it wrong, but think they have made a serious mistake making Bath odds on favourites.
Spot on !
Just on my way back home, there are so many words to describe the game that I can’t think of an appropriate explanation.
How many penalties? No empathy from pedantic Maxwell-Keys as expected.
Just hope that Stuart Hooper doesn’t recite the old adage’s that we’ve come to expect after a poor performance/loss .
Talking of odds I wonder what losing the first 4/5 games are ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:OutsideBath
Wish I wasn’t at the game truly awful by Bath, Hooper should be embarrassed.
Could you give those of us not at the game a bit of detail on that OB? Just the scoreline or are we not in the game at all?
Yes Hooper and the whole coaching team should be embarrassed…….Headless chickens !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:Jon Chess
Radio commentary says we look very “ ordinary “ . Yes, what do you expect from the team taking the field. Ordinary indeed
I think ‘ordinary’ is sugar coating it !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I got there 5 mins after kick off and wish I hadn’t bothered. It was a dreadful game and I know it’s easy to blame the coaches but the leadership was non existent and the players who gave away all those penalties must examine themselves.
We played badly except Mojo, Miles R, Tom DeG (although he dropped the ball when we were going forward) Bayliss and Max Clarke when he came on for JJ, but really it seemed that their minds were elsewhere as we were almost always on the back foot and when we did get ball we messed up. Very lethargic performance.
Maxwell-Keys I thought did not help the flow of the game which did make for a stuttering performance.
One to erase from the memory although we did win the second half when at last we woke up!
We played badly except Mojo, Miles R, Tom DeG (although he dropped the ball when we were going forward) Bayliss and Max Clarke when he came on for JJ, but really it seemed that their minds were elsewhere as we were almost always on the back foot and when we did get ball we messed up. Very lethargic performance.
Maxwell-Keys I thought did not help the flow of the game which did make for a stuttering performance.
One to erase from the memory although we did win the second half when at last we woke up!
Back home from watching the gama and thank god I gave up my season ticket. Utterly awful in every department,from the tacking to penalties to dropped balls to screwing up the few attacking moves we did make. I'm still non the wiser why Cips missed the match, injured, failed his tests? Or maybe just decided that after getting smashed in his first game he'd rather be at home on the sofa (is this "bait and switch" for selling season tickets?). JJ can't beat a man but can tackle, Mojo can beat a man but can't tackle, wingers get so little ball that when they do the drop it, scrum and breakdown leaking penalties, and Underhill off injured - just totally awful.
Still Hooper is the man absolutely, definitely etc. He's not palbably out of his depth signing up injury prone players who rarely make the squad, or renewing contacts of has beens to eat up the salary cap, oh no not him.
Roll on the mid-table mediocrity.....
Still Hooper is the man absolutely, definitely etc. He's not palbably out of his depth signing up injury prone players who rarely make the squad, or renewing contacts of has beens to eat up the salary cap, oh no not him.
Roll on the mid-table mediocrity.....
NotColin - your comments re Cips are so far out of order you should be heading off the page.
Quote:dannyf2
Max Ojomo was great today. We're not going to win much this season - but is that a surprise? Get behind the kids - they need the support
Silver-lining time. This is the season you can afford to see how the youngsters develop if given game time. You've got some excellent young talent so I hope Hooper embraces the opportunity.
There are a lot of people on here who appear to have watched a lot of rugby and not necessarily understood it.
Newcastle didn't switch off they were obsessed with scoring the bonus point try - hence all the kicking to the corner.
Don't know how many goes they had at it but we defended like a team that cared.
The last thing we were was lethargic - poor decision making when we had the ball in the second half because it was all rushed. Likewise some poor decisions in defence in the first half because players tried to kill a phase rather than trust the system.
The first half was a write off because our set piece didn't compete - whatever combination of technical issues in the front row combined with a lack of ballast at 4, 5 and 8 meant pretty much every Newcastle scrum earned a penalty and overthrown lineouts. I suspect the possession stats must be 70+ to 30-.
We looked what we were - a cobbled together team missing 10+ first choice players. I was all set to leave early for the first time in forever but we stuck at it and I stayed.
Have I set my personal bar for the team really low?...Absolutely but hey I was at the Rec for the first time in a long, long time and ultimately that's what matters for me.
Newcastle didn't switch off they were obsessed with scoring the bonus point try - hence all the kicking to the corner.
Don't know how many goes they had at it but we defended like a team that cared.
The last thing we were was lethargic - poor decision making when we had the ball in the second half because it was all rushed. Likewise some poor decisions in defence in the first half because players tried to kill a phase rather than trust the system.
The first half was a write off because our set piece didn't compete - whatever combination of technical issues in the front row combined with a lack of ballast at 4, 5 and 8 meant pretty much every Newcastle scrum earned a penalty and overthrown lineouts. I suspect the possession stats must be 70+ to 30-.
We looked what we were - a cobbled together team missing 10+ first choice players. I was all set to leave early for the first time in forever but we stuck at it and I stayed.
Have I set my personal bar for the team really low?...Absolutely but hey I was at the Rec for the first time in a long, long time and ultimately that's what matters for me.
Quote:NotColin
Roll on the mid-table mediocrity.....
Mid-table mediocrity sounds like a stretch target at the moment, rather than a realistic opportunity.
The first half was about as bad as it gets and second half only seemed ok because it was an improvement on the first. I don't know how we managed to be so passive in defence and yet concede so many penalties.
There was ambition at times but a complete lack of basic skills to be able to play in that style. Added to that the scrum didn't function at all.
Why at half time were hooper and co walking to the changing room 5 mins after the whistle had gone? Surely they needed every second of those 15 mins to put things right.
I don't know where we go from here, early season optimism and talk of new identity gone in truth within 1 half of rugby, and absolutely no reaction this week to what happened in the first half last week
There was ambition at times but a complete lack of basic skills to be able to play in that style. Added to that the scrum didn't function at all.
Why at half time were hooper and co walking to the changing room 5 mins after the whistle had gone? Surely they needed every second of those 15 mins to put things right.
I don't know where we go from here, early season optimism and talk of new identity gone in truth within 1 half of rugby, and absolutely no reaction this week to what happened in the first half last week
BBC report here includes comments from Hoops - [www.bbc.co.uk] a v disappointing afternoon for many. Would we have won with Cips at 10?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
I have also just got back from the game and I have seethed all the way. The first home game of the season, a full Rec and Bath serve up that abject, miserable excuse of a game. Newcastle were better in all departments and attitude and Bath were lacking any seeming sense of passion or spirit. The fans around me were similarly depressed. No creativity, no style, no finesse. When we did make any kind of line break we threw it away, Our penalty count continues to escalate, there is no leadership and our defence is almost non-existant. Newcastle waltzed though our lines with barely a hand laid on them.
The game wasn't helped by dreadful refereeing with saw lengthy scrum sets and resets and a seeming ignorance of the offside rule. A truly dreadful game. And I paid £50 for the privilege of enduring it.
My son was talking of buying a season ticket at 2.50pm. By 4.45pm he had decided there were better things to spend his money on.
The game wasn't helped by dreadful refereeing with saw lengthy scrum sets and resets and a seeming ignorance of the offside rule. A truly dreadful game. And I paid £50 for the privilege of enduring it.
My son was talking of buying a season ticket at 2.50pm. By 4.45pm he had decided there were better things to spend his money on.
Our first home game, Cipriani and Spencer out first match, Underhill injured. Having to watch Bayliss play 8 and still gutted we've lost Zach, losing at home to the Falcons. I could be miserable 😪 but seeing all the season ticket holders around me that I haven't seen for nearly 2 years and the gallows humour at another under par Bath performance was genuinely moving. So glad to be back at the Rec.
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
Adopted player
2023/24 Tom de Glanville
2021/22 Danny Cipriani
2020/21: Jonathan Joseph
2019/20: Tom Ellis
Although I made the decision to renew my season ticket I could not go today, but listening on the radio it seems that most of the Bath team did not turn up either. I know we are only two games into the new season but it is obviously just the same old dross we have seen for season after season. Good to see Tigers back to playing good rugby, shows how quickly things can improve with a competent coaching staff.
Crowd announced as 12,500 so nowhere near full. Worries over Covid, a lack of faith in 'yet another new dawn' and the expensive ticket prices mentioned by Deckchair probably 'to blame'. I'll try and stay positive a bit longer as it's early days and we were missing key players but the pack looks weak and there's no clear leadership. Needing 3 scores with 20 mins to go we held the ball at the base of rucks for an eternity then kicked it away badly. Box kicks never competed for and twice, in the space of 5 mins, we took out players in the air. All rather similar to previous seasons! For me Max O and Tom Ellis the pick of the players. Great to see familiar faces on the terrace though and band in marquee decent. Sometimes you have to look beyond the rugby for reasons to be cheerful!
Quote:Trawling
There are a lot of people on here who appear to have watched a lot of rugby and not necessarily understood it.
Newcastle didn't switch off they were obsessed with scoring the bonus point try - hence all the kicking to the corner.
Don't know how many goes they had at it but we defended like a team that cared.
The last thing we were was lethargic - poor decision making when we had the ball in the second half because it was all rushed. Likewise
some poor decisions in defence in the first half because players tried to kill a phase rather than trust the system.
The first half was a write off because our set piece didn't compete - whatever combination of technical issues in the front row combined with a lack of ballast at 4, 5 and 8 meant pretty much every Newcastle scrum earned a penalty and overthrown lineouts. I suspect the possession stats must be 70+ to 30-.
We looked what we were - a cobbled together team missing 10+ first choice players. I was all set to leave early for the first time in forever but we stuck at it and I stayed.
Have I set my personal bar for the team really low?...Absolutely but hey I was at the Rec for the first time in a long, long time and ultimately that's what matters for me.
I am as disappointed as anybody about the result - and, believe me, as angry - but I believe this the most balanced post. Well said Trawling!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
The first 2 or 3 games of the season are usually under capacity, probably the last of the holidays. However, if we continue to play like that it may continue.
Quote:P G TipsQuote:Trawling
There are a lot of people on here who appear to have watched a lot of rugby and not necessarily understood it.
Newcastle didn't switch off they were obsessed with scoring the bonus point try - hence all the kicking to the corner.
Don't know how many goes they had at it but we defended like a team that cared.
The last thing we were was lethargic - poor decision making when we had the ball in the second half because it was all rushed. Likewise
some poor decisions in defence in the first half because players tried to kill a phase rather than trust the system.
The first half was a write off because our set piece didn't compete - whatever combination of technical issues in the front row combined with a lack of ballast at 4, 5 and 8 meant pretty much every Newcastle scrum earned a penalty and overthrown lineouts. I suspect the possession stats must be 70+ to 30-.
We looked what we were - a cobbled together team missing 10+ first choice players. I was all set to leave early for the first time in forever but we stuck at it and I stayed.
Have I set my personal bar for the team really low?...Absolutely but hey I was at the Rec for the first time in a long, long time and ultimately that's what matters for me.
I am as disappointed as anybody about the result - and, believe me, as angry - but I believe this the most balanced post. Well said Trawling!
Much of Trawling’s post is excellent but my comment on lethargy has been criticised and I merely point to the Radwan try which was allowed to go through without any energetic response from us. The lethargy of the leadership not to recognise that the ref was penalising us more than the opposition which was killing us in the first half and for 10 or so minutes of the second. My view is that the team was lethargic in the first half and fought hard in the second to keep the opposition from getting their TB and achieving our LB which is compensation!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:25:21:55:40 by CoochieCoo.
Hoops: “ From our perspective, we understand that what we delivered today out there is not what we want to be delivering. The key is now that we go away and we fix it.”
Ooookay.
Ooookay.
Trawling's post might make some sensible points but I found the first sentence rather patronising!
Yes Coochie - our first half defence was woeful, so in that sense we were lethargic.
We were very energetic though in trying to attack with the (limitd) possession we had. The problem was wasted effort. Over romantic attack, before establishing stable platfomr or pressure, simply played in to Falcon’s hands.
Agree with your comment about leadership though. Largely absent - and not just from the captain. The youmger players showed up the old hands in that regard.
PG
We were very energetic though in trying to attack with the (limitd) possession we had. The problem was wasted effort. Over romantic attack, before establishing stable platfomr or pressure, simply played in to Falcon’s hands.
Agree with your comment about leadership though. Largely absent - and not just from the captain. The youmger players showed up the old hands in that regard.
PG
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:OutsideBath
Wish I wasn’t at the game truly awful by Bath, Hooper should be embarrassed.
Could you give those of us not at the game a bit of detail on that OB? Just the scoreline or are we not in the game at all?
Bath offered nothing in either half and to be honest didn’t even deserve the LBP.
The whole team just looked confused and had no discernible strategy. We desperately need a defence coach and not sure what the attack coach is doing. Scrum terrible and lineout substandard.
Just awful and 80 mins of my life I won’t get back.
Quote:P G Tips
Yes Coochie - our first half defence was woeful, so in that sense we were lethargic.
We were very energetic though in trying to attack with the (limitd) possession we had. The problem was wasted effort. Over romantic attack, before establishing stable platfomr or pressure, simply played in to Falcon’s hands.
Agree with your comment about leadership though. Largely absent - and not just from the captain. The youmger players showed up the old hands in that regard.
PG
Like you I was under the impression that our possession was limited so I was amazed by the stats that from ESPN that our possession was actually not so limited although territory was abysmal in the first half we had;
48% / 59% Possession 1H/2H 52% / 41%
39% / 45% Territory 1H/2H 61% / 55%
5 Clean Breaks 4
20 Defenders Beaten 9
5 Offload 1
69 / 71 (97%) Rucks Won 46 / 47 (97%)
4 / 4 (100%) Mauls Won 7 / 7 (100%)
15 Turnovers Conceded 4
That last one is very worrying and the other stat is that they were awarded 13 scrums to our 4!
Even allowing for some crucial players missing I hadn’t realised we could be quite so incompetent & ruderless. We looked anything but professional in execution, handling skills & kicking and seemingly had derived no benefit whatsoever from a full length summer break. It’s difficult to see us beating anyone unless our returning halfbacks can transform our fortunes. It’s just as well there’s no relegation. As for top 4 - you must e kidding!
Quote:Optimist
Hoops: “ From our perspective, we understand that what we delivered today out there is not what we want to be delivering. The key is now that we go away and we fix it.”
Ooookay.
It’s not entirely Hooper’s fault in that he has to comment after games, just wish he would take personal responsibility for a change.
The “team” today had no clue what they were doing and appeared lethargic in all departments.
Guess we are lucky there’s no relegation this season.
Quote:Montyuk
I could be miserable 😪 but seeing all the season ticket holders around me that I haven't seen for nearly 2 years and the gallows humour at another under par Bath performance was genuinely moving. So glad to be back at the Rec.
Brilliant post. At the end of the day it's just rugby but beers with friends again after all this time? that's something special
I have been going to gigs, festivals, theatre productions and any other cultural event I can squeeze in since things reopened. The closest I have got to buying a ticket to watch Bath, is looking here and on Twitter to see if we are worth paying to watch again. It seems we aren’t. Life is too short and expensive to waste time and money on the Hooper years without a significant change in fortunes.
Just watched the game. It's just as well for us there's no relegation this season.
My MotM - Mojo. The only guy playing in BBW who seemed to have any idea at all of how to play rugby.
Incidentally, I had Flats as the sole commentator on my feed. He was Flats. Not one-eyed or even particularly forward biased - but it was just Flats-schtick for 80 minutes. Decreasingly amusing for 10, plain annoying for 70.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:26:03:24:48 by joethefanatic.
My MotM - Mojo. The only guy playing in BBW who seemed to have any idea at all of how to play rugby.
Incidentally, I had Flats as the sole commentator on my feed. He was Flats. Not one-eyed or even particularly forward biased - but it was just Flats-schtick for 80 minutes. Decreasingly amusing for 10, plain annoying for 70.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:26:03:24:48 by joethefanatic.
Quote:Which TylerQuote:6 first choice starterscharlieboa
Which tyler- how many of your first xv are in the xv today?
For me it's only 5-6 maybe. Tough challenge but really should win if we want to achieve anything this season.
5 second choice starters
4 third choice starters
1.87th choice starting XV
I had something similar WT. Absolutely need to be able win games when missing good players and we just don't do it v often
Quote:Dorset Boy
NotColin - your comments re Cips are so far out of order you should be heading off the page.
Agreed. Bizarre comments but hopefully you are satisfied now hoops has confirmed he failed the protocols rather than him just fancying the afternoon on the sofa cos he couldn't be bothered
Was a bit surprised how accepting people were of losing to a sale team missing all their best players but game one and only one pre season so fair enough.
I didn't see or even listen yest as was out and about so can only judge on comments here/facebook and from friends. Did not sound great.
Whatever your plan and style you simply cannot be poor when it comes to set piece and defence in the prem.
It's not coincidence that sarries and exeter have dominated and quins set piece was often firmly on top last season.
To have 2 former front row coaches overseeing a struggling scrum isn't great. To have 2 former locks overseeing a struggling lineout isn't great. To have a dor who is a former lock who fails to get a squad with more than 3 locks is unforgivable, esp when one is always injured and one is in the England squad. Appreciate we have looked, hoops loves due diligence , the cap is reduced (but we do have spare cap) etc but it's poor management and causing us a problem.
Briz game will be interesting ...
I didn't see or even listen yest as was out and about so can only judge on comments here/facebook and from friends. Did not sound great.
Whatever your plan and style you simply cannot be poor when it comes to set piece and defence in the prem.
It's not coincidence that sarries and exeter have dominated and quins set piece was often firmly on top last season.
To have 2 former front row coaches overseeing a struggling scrum isn't great. To have 2 former locks overseeing a struggling lineout isn't great. To have a dor who is a former lock who fails to get a squad with more than 3 locks is unforgivable, esp when one is always injured and one is in the England squad. Appreciate we have looked, hoops loves due diligence , the cap is reduced (but we do have spare cap) etc but it's poor management and causing us a problem.
Briz game will be interesting ...
Quote:Optimist
Hoops: “ From our perspective, we understand that what we delivered today out there is not what we want to be delivering. The key is now that we go away and we fix it.”
Ooookay.
Just how many times have we heard this type of comment , still yet once again all will be fixed in training next week , if as on many occasions fixing a poor performance just does not work then surely its time the so called fixers moved on , I shan't hold my breath !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
A genuine request for interpretation.
"We didn't respect the ball enough."
What does it actually mean?
Anyone enlighten me?
"We didn't respect the ball enough."
What does it actually mean?
Anyone enlighten me?
Quote:BathMatt53
In relation to that team for tomorrow - I'm concerned in almost all areas of the 23, from the backup props through the makeshift locks, the inexperienced half backs and Roko trying to counter their electric wingers...but it will be great to be back at the Rec so bring it on.
I hate to say I told me so...
Positives:
- Max O going forward
- TDG catching
- Josh Bayliss dynamism
- 2nd half wasn't worse (was that possible) than the 1st half.
Negatives...how long do we have? Summarised by:
- gaps around Max O in defence (and lots of others of course). He is a good tackler but the shape didn't look quite right and there were lots of cracks in the defencive wall.
- its appears that South African prop recruitment on a budget isn't the best plan. Need Boyce, Stuart back and McNally or Spencer to given them some ballast;
- Sam Underhill injury;
- Max Clark break (yaaay) then pass (dohhh)
- Box kicking and general time wasting when several scores down and about 20 mins left of the game
- Penalties
- more penalties
In all I was so looking forward to being back at the rec and I really bought into to the pre-season chat about incisive positive play etc. I can't remember who said it before (Opti, Hasta?) but the usual story of prioritising a new strategy and totally forgetting all the positive parts of the old ones (strong forward play).
Within about 30 mins of the first home game I was left ruing putting my £500 into something that just leaves me disappointed - I now know how Jay Rayner felt when he ate at Le Cinq.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I think we would say 'We didn't keep hold of the ball', as in kicked it away cheaply and knocked on too often in contact. If he didn't mean that, he should have!
Prioritising new strategy and forgetting positive parts of old one is spot on matt.
It's almost laughable (except its no longer funny).
You just can't expect to achieve much without 2 functioning sets of front 5 forwards who know what they are doing. That was clearly the focus of hoops/ hats strategy and recruitment first season- gone completely backwards whilst not actually developing the other bits of our game.
I am as guilty as anyone on focusing on recruitment, balance of squad, injuries /availability etc but increasingly thinking we could coach the ability and passion out of a world xv.
It's almost laughable (except its no longer funny).
You just can't expect to achieve much without 2 functioning sets of front 5 forwards who know what they are doing. That was clearly the focus of hoops/ hats strategy and recruitment first season- gone completely backwards whilst not actually developing the other bits of our game.
I am as guilty as anyone on focusing on recruitment, balance of squad, injuries /availability etc but increasingly thinking we could coach the ability and passion out of a world xv.
Saying all that I am prepared to hold off judgement to a degree on the 'dave williams era'. Seems to all be on him now for some reason even though he is beneath hoops and hatley in the structure.
If we still look awful in a few months time you have to start wondering whether it's time to completely start again!
I live in hope we turn bris over and hit some form but not holding my breath, a few times in the last few seasons when at our lowest ebb we have turned it around (for a few weeks anyway before we forget what works and what doesn't)
If we still look awful in a few months time you have to start wondering whether it's time to completely start again!
I live in hope we turn bris over and hit some form but not holding my breath, a few times in the last few seasons when at our lowest ebb we have turned it around (for a few weeks anyway before we forget what works and what doesn't)
The idea that you'd look at our tight five performance and our discipline and attribute this to our fly half feels like you might have some pre-conceived notions.
I went yesterday expecting to see some new attacking ideas, but nothing has changed. The strategy seems to be kick the ball away as much as possible and generally do everything at a pedestrian pace.
Quote:hasta
The idea that you'd look at our tight five performance and our discipline and attribute this to our fly half feels like you might have some pre-conceived notions.
Not sure who that is directed at (assume not me and not sure if the persons dig was at cips or bailey bit either would seems unfair) but completely agree.
The whole thing goes so much deeper than individuals and certain positions it feels like to me. Am certainly losing my faith but as I say probably only fair to give williams a decent crack of the whip. If things look hopeless in a few months and Bruce is feeling flush I can see him looking at options.
Hope it doesn't come to that but we are poor and seem to be going backwards. May comletely turn it around and I would be delighted but feels unlikely to me.
Quote:charlieboa
Not sure who that is directed at (assume not me and not sure if the persons dig was at cips or bailey bit either would seems unfair) but completely agree.
Assumed it was NotColin
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Well I've woken up this morning still as sick as a chip over the performance yesterday, and a few pints of Guinness aren't helping my clarity of thought but can someone, anyone, please explain to me how with nothing else to do all week our forwards continue to give away so many penalties? It happened at Cardiff, Sale and now the Rec, why is no-one learning or altering their behaviour? I would mention Reid because of the yellow card but he was also giving them away at Sale.
It was a great day to be back at the Rec but it wasn't a great feeling as the game played out. Is CMK's interpretation of the laws completely alien to the understanding of the Bath players? There must be something wrong with our training methods if we are whistled off the park 3 weeks in a row. The fans I chatted with after the game at the bus station and in the pub were all bewildered, deeply despondent and pondering a poorer season than the last one.
I know it's only a game but it really matters to me, and many others, and yesterday just wasn't good enough...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
It was a great day to be back at the Rec but it wasn't a great feeling as the game played out. Is CMK's interpretation of the laws completely alien to the understanding of the Bath players? There must be something wrong with our training methods if we are whistled off the park 3 weeks in a row. The fans I chatted with after the game at the bus station and in the pub were all bewildered, deeply despondent and pondering a poorer season than the last one.
I know it's only a game but it really matters to me, and many others, and yesterday just wasn't good enough...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Struggling to understand what has happened to the dominant scrum Hooper was looking for. Also the lineout problems that were apparently fixed have come back.
Seemed clear yesterday that we need an on field leader to take charge when plan A isn’t working. At present we don’t have anyone that is capable to do that.
Seemed clear yesterday that we need an on field leader to take charge when plan A isn’t working. At present we don’t have anyone that is capable to do that.
Rugby 101 according to the first coach I knew
First win the ball , second hang on to it, third get down the pitch all the rest is fancy stuff you can’t do without 12&3.
Not a lot has changed. When we did get the ball usually not in their half we turned it over by either inaccurate box kicking or just knocking it on etc and coughing up a scrum which we lost after n resets or a penalty.
So if “ respect the ball” means do 2 better then that’s a start.
Scrum needs a lot of attention see 1 and if someone makes a break eg Clarke’s don’t panic.
There fixed it this DOR lark is a piece of cake…..NOT
First win the ball , second hang on to it, third get down the pitch all the rest is fancy stuff you can’t do without 12&3.
Not a lot has changed. When we did get the ball usually not in their half we turned it over by either inaccurate box kicking or just knocking it on etc and coughing up a scrum which we lost after n resets or a penalty.
So if “ respect the ball” means do 2 better then that’s a start.
Scrum needs a lot of attention see 1 and if someone makes a break eg Clarke’s don’t panic.
There fixed it this DOR lark is a piece of cake…..NOT
Quote:Rawce
The first 2 or 3 games of the season are usually under capacity, probably the last of the holidays.
Well Wasps didn't seem to do too badly and with an extra week off
Yeah sorry Charlie, the third person 'you'.
Just real concerned with the quality of the backup we have (or haven't) signed, particularly at tight head and lock. We're desperately missing Stuart, but he'd likely be off with England soon enough anyway.
Just real concerned with the quality of the backup we have (or haven't) signed, particularly at tight head and lock. We're desperately missing Stuart, but he'd likely be off with England soon enough anyway.
Quote:Reference to the 12,500 attendance!gaz59Quote:Rawce
The first 2 or 3 games of the season are usually under capacity, probably the last of the holidays.
Well Wasps didn't seem to do too badly and with an extra week off
Quote:hasta
Yeah sorry Charlie, the third person 'you'.
Just real concerned with the quality of the backup we have (or haven't) signed, particularly at tight head and lock. We're desperately missing Stuart, but he'd likely be off with England soon enough anyway.
No worries at all.
I agree, jonker and rae need to work out with stuart away a lot. May still be fine but early signs not great. Maybe we need to judge at scrum time with mcnally or spencer behind them? Makes a big difference.
My ask of back up props is pretty limited. Don't be a liability at scrum, anything else is a bonus. They can't all be beno and stuart whilst staying in cap.
Stooke going (which was heavily rumoured from jan) and still having not replaced him in sept is madness. There is cap, I cant believe there isn't a second row in the world who meets the criteria. I get what hoops says about due diligence on signings but is it that risky to sign someone for a season who is actually a second row....and is it riskier than playing backrowers in there most of the season.....
I didn't renew my season ticket (after 14 years) because of year after year after year of mediocrity and under-achievement. I didn't go for the social side; watching good rugby and a Bath team that at least looked like they had a chance of top four was more important to me. I was very confident I'd made the right decision, but there was always the nagging doubt that this was the season where they were going to turn it around and I'd made a mistake.
How silly I was to have any doubts! There is an ingrained culture of fragility which is so embedded that absolutely no one seems to be able to shift it. Far more so than at any other Premiership club. It's very odd indeed. When other clubs go through bad patches they tend to sort things out within a season or two. But not Bath.
Oh for a Steve Diamond-like character in charge.
How silly I was to have any doubts! There is an ingrained culture of fragility which is so embedded that absolutely no one seems to be able to shift it. Far more so than at any other Premiership club. It's very odd indeed. When other clubs go through bad patches they tend to sort things out within a season or two. But not Bath.
Oh for a Steve Diamond-like character in charge.
After listening to it on the radio, I cannot even bring myself to watch the game. However no attacking strategy, no bulk in the tight 5 and terrible disciple sounds exactly like the last few years.
Obviously I have my thoughts on who is to blame, but I’d be interested to know who everyone else holds to blame for our continuing malaise and failure?
Quote:Deckchair
My son was talking of buying a season ticket at 2.50pm. By 4.45pm he had decided there were better things to spend his money on.
Treat him if you can. The experiences you share going together to the games will be with you long after the memories of poor games have gone and the great games will sparkle in the memory. I hope you have loads of great rugby days out ahead of you
Or he'll curse you for inflicting another 9 months of drudgery upon him when he could have been enjoying himself!
We have an inexperienced DoR and an inexperienced HC. If we want better results, one (or both) of those things needs to change. We can either wait for them to become more experienced in the roles, and endure a lot more days like yesterday, or we can buy experience in. We are in the 20th year of our rebuilding phase and it's wearing very thin indeed.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Andrew Sheridan made a point to Coochie on the commentary during yesterday's match that our forwards were "Powder Puffs". Yet our coaching team left the one ball true ball carrier in the squad on the bench.
What does Hoops expect in relation to the squad- any front row will struggle without a proper second row behind them, have we learnt nothing at all. I personally do not accept the "We are scouring the market" nonsense this issue has been round for years and as usual our management have failed to address it.
I find it incredulous that Hooper and his team can honestly say based on that 1st half that they had prepared that team for a Premiership natch. If the Falcons 10 had kicked at 75% we would not even have got a LBP which I honestly cannot say I thought we deserved, as for McGuigan's try that was just sheer embarrassment.
Finally what does it say about the state of rugby in the South West all 4 teams bottom of the league, I know it is early days and based on the 2 performances so far both Chiefs and Glos look capable of climbing the league- but as for us and Bristol we'll that is another story. Looks like Bears are really struggling. I hate to say it we look kind of clueless so far.
Which makes Friday's game an interesting one - at least we cannot play as badly as we did in the first half can we?
What does Hoops expect in relation to the squad- any front row will struggle without a proper second row behind them, have we learnt nothing at all. I personally do not accept the "We are scouring the market" nonsense this issue has been round for years and as usual our management have failed to address it.
I find it incredulous that Hooper and his team can honestly say based on that 1st half that they had prepared that team for a Premiership natch. If the Falcons 10 had kicked at 75% we would not even have got a LBP which I honestly cannot say I thought we deserved, as for McGuigan's try that was just sheer embarrassment.
Finally what does it say about the state of rugby in the South West all 4 teams bottom of the league, I know it is early days and based on the 2 performances so far both Chiefs and Glos look capable of climbing the league- but as for us and Bristol we'll that is another story. Looks like Bears are really struggling. I hate to say it we look kind of clueless so far.
Which makes Friday's game an interesting one - at least we cannot play as badly as we did in the first half can we?
It was great to be back seeing fellow fans for the 1st time in 18 months. The gallows humour was even entertaining between us. There were 12500 fans present officially to watch a skill level worse than the championship. 6500 London Irish fans watched the 31-31 spectacular match vs Sale today with the post denying a 60 metre kick comeback win. What a game...
Quote:Never In Doubt
After listening to it on the radio, I cannot even bring myself to watch the game. However no attacking strategy, no bulk in the tight 5 and terrible disciple sounds exactly like the last few years.
Was it Judas Iscariat ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
You really have to wonder where the next win is coming from. We must be second-favourites in all of our next 8 league matches, with 2 absolute monsterings in the HC to follow.
Looking at the fixture list we have to be favourites to be bottom at Xmas and out of the champions cup.
Can’t see how Hooper can survive that.
Can’t see how Hooper can survive that.
Just watched the lowlights. Slightly ironic that the only reason the forwards actually ‘released’ the ball was that they lost control of it and forced Green into a hurried ship-on. Otherwise, I’m guessing, they’d still be hammering away at Falcons’ line 20/21 style.
Can we not do spoilers for other games on the match thread, please? I haven't had a chance to watch any of them yet.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Utterly desperate display. The sad thing is that I was not surprised.
What on earth has happened to our scrum?
Max Ojomoh was the only real highlight. He is the real deal.
Baylis and Muir tried hard, and Beno made a difference H2.
Gonna be a long season, but was happy to catch up with the crew around us at the Rec.
What on earth has happened to our scrum?
Max Ojomoh was the only real highlight. He is the real deal.
Baylis and Muir tried hard, and Beno made a difference H2.
Gonna be a long season, but was happy to catch up with the crew around us at the Rec.
Quote:BathMatt53
Within about 30 mins of the first home game I was left ruing putting my £500 into something that just leaves me disappointed - I now know how Jay Rayner felt when he ate at Le Cinq.
At least Jay Rayner got to claim it back on expenses!
A massive shake up required for Bristol.
Obano, Du Toit, Stuart, Ellis, Ewels, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee; Fox, Cips, Muir, Mojo, Clark, McC, TdG
Subs
Boyce, Dunn, Jonker, Richards, Bayliss, Green, Bailey, JJ
Obano, Du Toit, Stuart, Ellis, Ewels, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee; Fox, Cips, Muir, Mojo, Clark, McC, TdG
Subs
Boyce, Dunn, Jonker, Richards, Bayliss, Green, Bailey, JJ
I don't get it. why didn't Hoops just select all those fast, hard running, offloading players I saw in the videos instead of the donkeys that turned out on Saturday?
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
A massive shake up required for Bristol.
Obano, Du Toit, Stuart, Ellis, Ewels, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee; Fox, Cips, Muir, Mojo, Clark, McC, TdG
Subs
Boyce, Dunn, Jonker, Richards, Bayliss, Green, Bailey, JJ
Change of players isn’t going to be enough to trouble a side like Bristol. The coaches need to come up with workable attacking strategies and we need to find a way to defend. At the same time the scrum and lineout need serious improvement.
Just not going to happen in a few days.
Its all very very sad.
I didn't watch the match but met by chance a neigbhour who had been at the match (still very well 'oiled but standing and coherent!!) who described one period where Bath were on their try line for minutes and minutes with no clue as to how to get over it. As I have been saying for years now, what do they do all week up at Farleigh Towers?
As for the other somewhat surprising results - its early days, Exeter have been the ones to beat as were Bristol last season. As if often said in sport, getting to the top is the easy bit, but staying there is the real challenge.
Borthwick at Leicester has been beavering away building his team, and imvho they are the ones to watch, with Saints this season.
I didn't watch the match but met by chance a neigbhour who had been at the match (still very well 'oiled but standing and coherent!!) who described one period where Bath were on their try line for minutes and minutes with no clue as to how to get over it. As I have been saying for years now, what do they do all week up at Farleigh Towers?
As for the other somewhat surprising results - its early days, Exeter have been the ones to beat as were Bristol last season. As if often said in sport, getting to the top is the easy bit, but staying there is the real challenge.
Borthwick at Leicester has been beavering away building his team, and imvho they are the ones to watch, with Saints this season.
I never drink at the match, although I wish I had been drunk on Saturday as at least I wouldn’t remember what happened.
I am still in a state of shock at how bad Bath played and how easy it was for Falcons. Just can’t understand how a team can be so clueless when they’ve spent so much time training together.
We are told that Bath’s management do read this forum, if that’s true then I’d really appreciate if they could come out and publicly explain how a Bath team can be so devoid of ideas and lacking in any form of gameplan.
I am still in a state of shock at how bad Bath played and how easy it was for Falcons. Just can’t understand how a team can be so clueless when they’ve spent so much time training together.
We are told that Bath’s management do read this forum, if that’s true then I’d really appreciate if they could come out and publicly explain how a Bath team can be so devoid of ideas and lacking in any form of gameplan.
Quote:Maybe that says more about our defence than our attack? If our attack can cut through our defence in training (at least on the videos that are shared) when they know what is coming it doesn’t bode well.gaz59
I don't get it. why didn't Hoops just select all those fast, hard running, offloading players I saw in the videos instead of the donkeys that turned out on Saturday?
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh
A massive shake up required for Bristol.
Obano, Du Toit, Stuart, Ellis, Ewels, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee; Fox, Cips, Muir, Mojo, Clark, McC, TdG
Subs
Boyce, Dunn, Jonker, Richards, Bayliss, Green, Bailey, JJ
Change of players isn’t going to be enough to trouble a side like Bristol. The coaches need to come up with workable attacking strategies and we need to find a way to defend. At the same time the scrum and lineout need serious improvement.
Just not going to happen in a few days.
No amount of reevaluating the strategies will make the scrum perform better, which is the number 1 reason for the first half collapse. That's a personnel and coaching issue. Lilly is listed as Scrum Coach in the Unseen videos so him and Hats hold responsibility alongside Hoops who recruited Jonker and Rae. It's been written elsewhere here but having a dedicated second row should help.
Thought the team showed plenty of examples of the new 'style'. Chipping in our half, offloads and wanting to counter attack off transition. All things they told us they wanted to do. I agree with you that the defence needs work but it's not so much the shape or tackling that was the issue, although that can always be better. It was very poor decision making and set piece, we lost the territory battle because of it and was always under pressure.
So what do you do? Well, hopefully Stuart is fit for starters. I love Obano but he's completely 50/50 in the scrum depending on the ref but we don't have any alternatives. Schoeman did not back up his impressive cameo against Sale. Ellis starts over Williams who looks like he never recovered from the injury he sustained in the Sale game. A real lock on the bench to cover in Richards. Everything else is window dressing unless we sort the scrum.
I agree re scrum. V few plans/strategies/styles work in the absence of solid set piece.
As you say personnel available is the responsibility of hoops/hats I assume. Coaching is predominantly Lilley. One/both not really working over the last few years.
Only reason I am holding judgement slightly is the challenge of not having genuine second rows behind the new tightheads. It is massively important-stick mcnally or spencer behind them and may look different players. If they are still absent I would also give ellis a go.
Agree re obano- I love him but I wouldn't back him to be dominant at scrum time most weeks. Sometimes he is but not consistently like marler or genge.
As you say personnel available is the responsibility of hoops/hats I assume. Coaching is predominantly Lilley. One/both not really working over the last few years.
Only reason I am holding judgement slightly is the challenge of not having genuine second rows behind the new tightheads. It is massively important-stick mcnally or spencer behind them and may look different players. If they are still absent I would also give ellis a go.
Agree re obano- I love him but I wouldn't back him to be dominant at scrum time most weeks. Sometimes he is but not consistently like marler or genge.
I assume that it was pretty much sold out.? Given a decent ticket is now £50 surely there's got to be a point where people stop buying them. Since i gave up my ST I have come to a few games per season, but unless I can see some semblance of improvement I won't bother this year.
As already noted, attendance was 12,500 so some way short of a sellout. Ticket prices and the poor rugby we've suffered of late are perhaps already having an impact albeit the club probably recognise this, hence the stated desire to play a more adventurous style of rugby. Of course if you haven't got a functioning set piece that becomes impossible anyway.
I was at the game and the scrum was poor but I also though it was very badly refereed.
CMK looked at the 1st scrum and decided that Falcons were better and judged everything through that lens.
Falcons were pushing early and twisting the scrum before the put in on just about every occasion but it was let go.
The when to penalty or re-set appeared to be if he could blame Bath penalty if it looked like falcons re-set.
The few times we got on top in the 2nd half on their ball and they stood up he let them play the ball away where in the 1st half it was penalty Falcons.
We need to get better at managing the ref but also dealing with illegal scrummaging from the opposition when the ref is letting it go.
When you combine that with both CMK and the touch judge ignoring the constant offside of falcons in defence it makes it hard.
I know this sounds like a very parochial post and I accept to some degree it is but you could sense the crowd were properly frustrated with the performance of the officials.
CMK looked at the 1st scrum and decided that Falcons were better and judged everything through that lens.
Falcons were pushing early and twisting the scrum before the put in on just about every occasion but it was let go.
The when to penalty or re-set appeared to be if he could blame Bath penalty if it looked like falcons re-set.
The few times we got on top in the 2nd half on their ball and they stood up he let them play the ball away where in the 1st half it was penalty Falcons.
We need to get better at managing the ref but also dealing with illegal scrummaging from the opposition when the ref is letting it go.
When you combine that with both CMK and the touch judge ignoring the constant offside of falcons in defence it makes it hard.
I know this sounds like a very parochial post and I accept to some degree it is but you could sense the crowd were properly frustrated with the performance of the officials.
Can just stay as you are until after Bonfire night, then you can find a miracle cure and win lots of games lol.
Quote:I wonder if attendance was below capacity partly due to the number of away supporters? Newcastle don’t get that many at home, so probably not too many travelled.TomReagan
As already noted, attendance was 12,500 so some way short of a sellout. Ticket prices and the poor rugby we've suffered of late are perhaps already having an impact albeit the club probably recognise this, hence the stated desire to play a more adventurous style of rugby. Of course if you haven't got a functioning set piece that becomes impossible anyway.
There were hardly any Falcons fans in the ground, could hear a pin drop when they scored.
On the BT commentary Healey and Kay pinpointed the inceffient leadership on the pitch. This is true and we have only won 4 of our last 10 home games.
I'm assuming that figure of 12,500 includes all ST holders whether they're there or not but may well be wrong on this. Either way, that figure is 2,000 short of capacity. I'd be curious to know what constitutes 'good travelling support' as I can't imagine too many clubs besides our West Country rivals bring more than 300-400? (Merely a guesstimate I must admit).
Quote:Murty7
I was at the game and the scrum was poor but I also though it was very badly refereed.
CMK looked at the 1st scrum and decided that Falcons were better and judged everything through that lens.
Interestingly Newcastle actually gave away more pens and free kicks in total than Bath did:
- Bath 15 pens and 1 free kick
- Newcastle 13 pens and 3 free kicks
The scrum looked under serious pressure from the start to me. Jonker looked every bit the Championship THP that he was last season, but then that could be because we are used to seeing Stuart with a big unit behind him. Hope that Jonker gets up to speed fast and isn't another Delmas.
The Bristol pack looked OK at the weekend (about the only thing that did) so could be a long one on Friday eve if Stuart isn't back.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If stuart and mcnally/spencer are back you would imagine the scrum will look a lot more secure and we can focus on being rubbish at a different facet of the game
Quote:Ah, I would assume the figure announced was based on the actual number scanned into the ground. Anyway we’ll see what happens when Sarries visit, quite possibly with all their Lions!TomReagan
I'm assuming that figure of 12,500 includes all ST holders whether they're there or not but may well be wrong on this. Either way, that figure is 2,000 short of capacity. I'd be curious to know what constitutes 'good travelling support' as I can't imagine too many clubs besides our West Country rivals bring more than 300-400? (Merely a guesstimate I must admit).
Quote:dcshQuote:Ah, I would assume the figure announced was based on the actual number scanned into the ground. Anyway we’ll see what happens when Sarries visit, quite possibly with all their Lions!TomReagan
I'm assuming that figure of 12,500 includes all ST holders whether they're there or not but may well be wrong on this. Either way, that figure is 2,000 short of capacity. I'd be curious to know what constitutes 'good travelling support' as I can't imagine too many clubs besides our West Country rivals bring more than 300-400? (Merely a guesstimate I must admit).
I suspect we all have a very accurate idea of what's going to happen. I've ordered a new sofa to hide behind, in anticipation.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My 2 cents, no on field leadership and don't seem fit enough.
Its the same guys who seem to work their socks off every week: Bayliss, Reid, Muir. Where is the rest of our front 5? Don't think I saw JJ or Roko touch the ball in the first half, our 2 most experienced backs (by a long way) and they had such little influence... what's going wrong??
Hooper may talk about playing an attractive brand of rugby but personally I just want to watch a team play with intensity and pride.
I'm sure if we had McNally or Spencer, and one of our preferred halfbacks we might have bumbled our way through that game and got a win but its just papering over the cracks in my opinion.
Its the same guys who seem to work their socks off every week: Bayliss, Reid, Muir. Where is the rest of our front 5? Don't think I saw JJ or Roko touch the ball in the first half, our 2 most experienced backs (by a long way) and they had such little influence... what's going wrong??
Hooper may talk about playing an attractive brand of rugby but personally I just want to watch a team play with intensity and pride.
I'm sure if we had McNally or Spencer, and one of our preferred halfbacks we might have bumbled our way through that game and got a win but its just papering over the cracks in my opinion.
Quote:by
don't seem fit enough.
Newcastle didn't score a point in the second half and Bath were running all over the pitch so I don't really agree with that.
Poor set piece and poor defence particularly off first phase were the big issues for me, with Bath only getting started after half time (the same as the week before). In this league Bath won't win anything if they are 15-20 points down by half time every time they play a match.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
After what's been seen so far, I fear mid table mediocrity is something we can only aspire to. dreadful state of affairs
Quote:CoochieCoo
Much of Trawling’s post is excellent but my comment on lethargy has been criticised and I merely point to the Radwan try which was allowed to go through without any energetic response from us. The lethargy of the leadership not to recognise that the ref was penalising us more than the opposition which was killing us in the first half and for 10 or so minutes of the second. My view is that the team was lethargic in the first half and fought hard in the second to keep the opposition from getting their TB and achieving our LB which is compensation!
Coochie - I agree with your lethargy point - the defence for all 3 Falcons tries was a case of the defence not working hard enough. Before this post is attacked this has been commented on by a number of pundits including International rugby players and ex Bath players.
Defence as shown by many other teams - Tigers, Sarries and Wasps in particular is a matter of hunger, desire and hard work to close down space for the opposition - we simply did not do this - Ollie Fox and Max O were both highlighted pleading with teammates to follow them without success and the rest as they say is history.
David Williams and Hoops stated that Bath's style was "Non Negotiable" - and yes we have injuries so what so do other teams - who's fault is that these youngsters have not had any experience - the opportunities were there last season when there was no relegation and certain players who were leaving were prioritised (Chudley & Priestland). I do not agree with a lot Austin Healey says - Ben Kay is more astute IMHO but both in agreement that we have no identity, no leadership and basically we are a mess.
As for our scrum - what do we all expect anyone who has played in the front 5 will know if you only have 1 specialist lock then you are going to be in trouble and that lock is not a powerhouse more a lineout specialist - the scrum is going to be unstable and basically "There for the taking" for any premiership pack.
The issues from Saturday for me was the same issues as last year:
Defence, Lack of Ball Carrying Options and the most frustrating of all Lack of Basic Skills.
I was so excited listening to Hoops and Co promising this new brand/identity in preparation for this new season - how the team would hit the ground running and it may come to fruition - but for me so far it appears like a scratched record the same issues which blighted our season last season.
Friday's game is huge - the 2 worst sides (forget the table - Glos and Chiefs have shown way more than both us and Bristol) by some way in the Premiership.
What Charlie had to say about Saturday, he looks pretty hosed off at the start of the interview...[www.youtube.com]
Is it my imagination or does he really sound a little like Prince Harry?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:12:14:26 by Clarkey3k.
Is it my imagination or does he really sound a little like Prince Harry?
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:12:14:26 by Clarkey3k.
Quote:Ali1969Quote:CoochieCoo
Much of Trawling’s post is excellent but my comment on lethargy has been criticised and I merely point to the Radwan try which was allowed to go through without any energetic response from us. The lethargy of the leadership not to recognise that the ref was penalising us more than the opposition which was killing us in the first half and for 10 or so minutes of the second. My view is that the team was lethargic in the first half and fought hard in the second to keep the opposition from getting their TB and achieving our LB which is compensation!
Coochie - I agree with your lethargy point - the defence for all 3 Falcons tries was a case of the defence not working hard enough. Before this post is attacked this has been commented on by a number of pundits including International rugby players and ex Bath players.
I also agree with the lethargy assessment.
They played like I did when we had a scheduled match I didn't really want to be it. Play what comes at you but not enforcing your will on the game.
To me the issues again seem mental. The constant failure of the basics by more-than-talented-enough players suggests to me that the focus and belief is wrong somewhere. Like knowing we're trying to run before we can walk.
I prefer lack of intensity rather than lethargy. I don’t think that they couldn’t be bothered it was that their intensity level was average and it needed to be way better. There is a level at which you can maintain your discipline and intensity levels we just haven’t found it yet.
It was noticeable to me that those who we expect to be at that level but had red cards at the end of last season seem particularly affected. Dunn Obano and Ewells. They maybe need to get their confidence in making a big hit back..
It was noticeable to me that those who we expect to be at that level but had red cards at the end of last season seem particularly affected. Dunn Obano and Ewells. They maybe need to get their confidence in making a big hit back..
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