Bath
UNLUCKY 13? BATH v LEINSTER
Redpath: confident
By PG Tips
January 18 2022
“Unlucky 13” seems the likely theme of Bath’s European Champions Cup match against Leinster on Saturday. Not a 13th consecutive competitive defeat- Bath narrowly escaped that fate by beating Worcester – but the looming omen of the Dubliners’ 13 try humbling of Montpellier on Sunday. In tearing their French visitors apart, Leinster racked up their record European score. This after a 4 -week Covid enforced layoff. If that is what they can do to the Top 14’s 4th placed team, how will the Premiership’s lowest side fare?
Leinster and Bath have met 12 times previously in the competition, the Irish side winning all but 2 of them. Even at their strongest, Bath have found them the toughest of European opponents. Sunday’s rout of Montpellier was achieved without stalwarts Healey, Cronin, Ryan, Toner and Henshaw and despite some early signs of rust due to their month’s inaction. To cap it all, Bath’s luckless spell continued after the match when the fog which blighted their game in La Rochelle– a metaphor for their entire season to date – grounded them in France for an extra day. The omens for this weekend could hardly be worse.
Leinster, as Bath DOR designate Johann van Graan is rumoured to have said, have cornered the market in most of Ireland’s best players. Indeed, a viable national team could be chosen exclusively from their ranks. Last weekend’s 23 boasted all-Ireland starting front and back rows, 2 pairs of capped halfbacks, plus the dashing backs Keenan, Larmour and Ringrose. The centre made frequent impressive dents in the visitors’ defence, but it was man of the Match Josh van der Flier who most caught the eye with an outstanding performance in carry, tackle, turnover and try -scoring. Bath’s record home defeat 71-17 by Saracens in November, will be under severe threat.
There will be the usual anxious wait to see who is free of injury and Covid to face the latest test of character. The reinforcing cavalry seem tantalisingly near, and yet far. At least Cameron Redpath, pressed into service as 6th choice fly half after an 8-month layoff, survived his La Rochelle trial, with confidence and flashes of style. Hopefully there will be better news on availability of Dunn, Stuart and Underhill and also Taulupe Faletau, expected to be named in Wales’ squad this week, although it may be still a week or so too soon for him. Orlando Bailey, newly named in England’s pre 6 Nations training squad will hopefully be fit to return.
In deep trouble by half time and 39 points down without notching a score, Bath gathered themselves to claim 3 tries of their own, the first from opportunist reaction to a charge-down, the other two stunning efforts from long range. Those scores are merely consolation and signs of potential. That potential needs to be realised much earlier, while games are still competitive, based on more venom and dominance up front. Defence too remains a key weakness. Lineout and maul defence continues to improve but backline alignment is still too narrow and the defence seldom forces the opposition back or ignite turnovers– stated pre-season ambitions.
In European Champions Cup terms the match is a lost cause for Bath, but there is a distant incentive to play for. A place in the Challenge Cup awaits if the Blue, Black and White can finish above Ospreys in Pool A. Sale will hopefully dispatch the Swansea men in Manchester without a bonus point, but Bath need to seek points of their own – as well as pride, to be certain.
Possible Teams:
Bath (Covid permitting): Boyce, Du Toit, Stuart, W Spencer, Ewels (Capt.), Ellis, Underhill, Bayliss. B Spencer, Bailey. Muir, Redpath, Joseph, Rokodoguni. McConnochie,.
Replacements: Dunn, Morozov, Rae, McNally, Richards. Simpson, Clark, Hamer-Webb.
Leinster: Porter, Kelleher, Furlong; Molony, Murphy; Doris, van der Flier, Conan.
Gibson-Park, Byrne. Larmour, Ringrose (Capt), Frawley, O'Brien. Keenan
Replacements: Sheehan, Byrne, Ala'alatoa, Ruddock, Deegan, McGrath, Sexton, Lowe.
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponUNLUCKY 13? BATH v LEINSTER. Team Up!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 18/01/2022 20:00
18/01/2022 20:00
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:26:08:35:56 by P G Tips.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:26:08:35:56 by P G Tips.
There seems to be a reluctance for anyone to post a comment about this match to be fair thats perfectly understandable.
Not really surprising as I think this is the game that we have all been fearing. What is frightening is that Montpellier are fourth in the league in France yet they still conceded 89 points.
The outcome of this game has to be a foregone conclusion however, if we are going to take anything from these games where we inevitably lose it has to be that we can identify areas that are improving.
We still have a vulnerability on the wings probably due to the fact that we run out of defenders at that point. Leinster have some very quick incisive backs and Lowe when he came on as sub last week in combination with Ringrose looked incredibly threatening.
So I think as fans we should concede that our defence is going to get a battering and simply look for the cameo highlights that may survive as we hopefully create a few tries of our own. There were some really good ones last week.
The other point that stands out from PG’s team sheet is that while we have to squeeze a 12 to start at 10, Leinster have the luxury of Jonny Sexton on the bench so when Conan has finished smashing us to bits they simply pick from an equally devastating bench to finish the job.
Are there not rules about mismatched rugby games for safety reasons any more? 35 minute halves anyone?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Not really surprising as I think this is the game that we have all been fearing. What is frightening is that Montpellier are fourth in the league in France yet they still conceded 89 points.
The outcome of this game has to be a foregone conclusion however, if we are going to take anything from these games where we inevitably lose it has to be that we can identify areas that are improving.
We still have a vulnerability on the wings probably due to the fact that we run out of defenders at that point. Leinster have some very quick incisive backs and Lowe when he came on as sub last week in combination with Ringrose looked incredibly threatening.
So I think as fans we should concede that our defence is going to get a battering and simply look for the cameo highlights that may survive as we hopefully create a few tries of our own. There were some really good ones last week.
The other point that stands out from PG’s team sheet is that while we have to squeeze a 12 to start at 10, Leinster have the luxury of Jonny Sexton on the bench so when Conan has finished smashing us to bits they simply pick from an equally devastating bench to finish the job.
Are there not rules about mismatched rugby games for safety reasons any more? 35 minute halves anyone?
No injuries is about the best we can hope for but I cannot see an upside to this game. We're not going to learn anything we didn't already know and the "experience" will not help our young players develop one iota.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Any idea what the injuries were to boyce and bailey?
Cips may be available?
Wonder how far off faletau and coko are. Prob the one match you don't want feeding back into!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:19:07:43:34 by charlieboa.
Cips may be available?
Wonder how far off faletau and coko are. Prob the one match you don't want feeding back into!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:19:07:43:34 by charlieboa.
Quote:shipwrecked
The other point that stands out from PG’s team sheet is that while we have to squeeze a 12 to start at 10, Leinster have the luxury of Jonny Sexton on the bench so when Conan has finished smashing us to bits they simply pick from an equally devastating bench to finish the job.
[/quote
Does it sw?
The proposed inside backs are: 9. B Spencer,10. Bailey. 12. Redpath, 13. Joseph.
It may be that we are forced to use Cam- if Orlando is not fit, but that is not what I suggested.
PG
Quote:P G TipsQuote:shipwrecked
The other point that stands out from PG’s team sheet is that while we have to squeeze a 12 to start at 10, Leinster have the luxury of Jonny Sexton on the bench so when Conan has finished smashing us to bits they simply pick from an equally devastating bench to finish the job.
Does it sw?
The proposed inside backs are: 9. B Spencer,10. Bailey. 12. Redpath, 13. Joseph.
It may be that we are forced to use Cam- if Orlando is not fit, but that is not what I suggested.
PG
Not well explained I agree PG, I was actually thinking about the proposed Leinster side rather than our.
In addition I was trying to highlight the gulf in choice between Leinster having a Lions 10 on the bench and Bath who have an academy 10 (albeit a brilliant one) at fly half and no regular flyhallf as back up. We were, against La Rochelle, in a desperate selection crisis are we any better a week on?
On paper it looks a total mismatch and the result decided but I'm actually unsure if it will be the rout everyone expects.
There is another plus and that is McConnochie seemed perfectly at home at 15 and his try was a welcome bonus.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:19:09:08:16 by shipwrecked.
On paper it looks like a mismatch because it is - this is what happens when the top 8 of the league get into a cup intended for the 'champions'. If we can avoid injuries and keep it below 50 then it's turned out better a I am expecting and there would certainly be no shame. Leinster (i.e. Ireland) would do that to many - possibly most - teams in the current Prem and Top 14 at the moment when they are on form like they were last weekend. This doesn't mean I'm not a supporter btw, it's going on the evidence.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Today is Wednesday so there's still time for the players to find a bit of Omicron.
Quote:woodpecker
Today is Wednesday so there's still time for the players to find a bit of Omicron.
Which is also the only way we would get into the 'little' euro cup.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:woodpecker
Today is Wednesday so there's still time for the players to find a bit of Omicron.
Shameful tactical use of the coronavirus variant Woody but also destined for failure as cases are now falling rapidly!
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:woodpecker
Today is Wednesday so there's still time for the players to find a bit of Omicron.
Shameful tactical use of the coronavirus variant Woody but also destined for failure as cases are now falling rapidly!
In all seriousness they have all just come back from France where cases are astronomical (1/2 milion?).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
The limitless budget for Leinster stinks.
Let’s hope the ref is balanced & Ireland (sorry, Leinster) arrive over confident.
Live on C4 too !! Why? There must be an even contest out there somewhere or has TV joined in with our humiliation?
Let’s hope the ref is balanced & Ireland (sorry, Leinster) arrive over confident.
Live on C4 too !! Why? There must be an even contest out there somewhere or has TV joined in with our humiliation?
Quote:nigewing
The limitless budget for Leinster stinks.
Let’s hope the ref is balanced & Ireland (sorry, Leinster) arrive over confident.
Live on C4 too !! Why? There must be an even contest out there somewhere or has TV joined in with our humiliation?
1) Leinster are good
2) Bath is pretty
3) maybe nobody else was too bothered about broadcasting it
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:nigewing
The limitless budget for Leinster stinks.
Let’s hope the ref is balanced & Ireland (sorry, Leinster) arrive over confident.
Live on C4 too !! Why? There must be an even contest out there somewhere or has TV joined in with our humiliation?
1) Leinster are good
2) Bath is pretty
3) maybe nobody else was too bothered about broadcasting it
Isn’t the idea of having coverage on free to air tv to grow the game? Nobody is going to watch Bath get humiliated by Leinster and think I must start watching more rugby.
As for the champions cup these ridiculous mismatches aren’t good for rugby. The competition should be confined to the very best teams and not substandard teams scraping into the competition by finishing 8th.
I’ll be there on Saturday hoping the losing score is less than 50 and enjoying Leinster’s play.
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:BathMatt53Quote:nigewing
The limitless budget for Leinster stinks.
Let’s hope the ref is balanced & Ireland (sorry, Leinster) arrive over confident.
Live on C4 too !! Why? There must be an even contest out there somewhere or has TV joined in with our humiliation?
1) Leinster are good
2) Bath is pretty
3) maybe nobody else was too bothered about broadcasting it
Isn’t the idea of having coverage on free to air tv to grow the game? Nobody is going to watch Bath get humiliated by Leinster and think I must start watching more rugby.
As for the champions cup these ridiculous mismatches aren’t good for rugby. The competition should be confined to the very best teams and not substandard teams scraping into the competition by finishing 8th.
I’ll be there on Saturday hoping the losing score is less than 50 and enjoying Leinster’s play.
I admire your commitment OB...
Quote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
As long as they don't spontaniously combust I'm sure they will be fine, but you would need to ask the club for confirmation.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
I think there needs to be a very strict policy on Leinster players entering the ground. Any over the age of 15 should be barred from entry.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
I think there needs to be a very strict policy on Leinster players entering the ground. Any over the age of 15 should be barred from entry.
Motion seconded
Quote:🙏👍BathMatt53Quote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
As long as they don't spontaniously combust I'm sure they will be fine, but you would need to ask the club for confirmation.
Quote:👍🏉😀charlieboaQuote:Dorset BoyQuote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
I think there needs to be a very strict policy on Leinster players entering the ground. Any over the age of 15 should be barred from entry.
Motion seconded
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:footrush
Last time I had the pleasure of visiting the Rec there was a pretty strict policy on bringing flags into the ground is this still in place ?.
I think there needs to be a very strict policy on Leinster players entering the ground. Any over the age of 15 should be barred from entry.
DB I think the under 15’s would beat us anyway !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Bookies seem to be offering us a 25-30 point start Oddschecker Bath Rugby - I'd be happy with that margin 
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
“ Bath’s European Challenge Cup match against Leinster ”
Not sure Leinster have ever or will ever play in the Challenge Cup, not sure scoreboards are make big enough to display their score!
Not sure Leinster have ever or will ever play in the Challenge Cup, not sure scoreboards are make big enough to display their score!
Quote:dcsh
“ Bath’s European Challenge Cup match against Leinster ”
Not sure Leinster have ever or will ever play in the Challenge Cup, not sure scoreboards are make big enough to display their score!
Leinster beat Stade Francaise by 34-13 in the Challenge Cup Final in the 2012-13 season.
Quote:Very good, thank you. I stand corrected.JohnB2Quote:dcsh
“ Bath’s European Challenge Cup match against Leinster ”
Not sure Leinster have ever or will ever play in the Challenge Cup, not sure scoreboards are make big enough to display their score!
Leinster beat Stade Francaise by 34-13 in the Challenge Cup Final in the 2012-13 season.
Quote:gaz59
How did Leinster end up in the Challenge cup?
They were in the Champions Cup but found themselves in a group with Clermont. Although they cam 2nd they only had 20 points meaning that Munster and Montpellier went through as highest seeded runners up. Leinster, Toulouse and Biarritz joined the Challenge Cup at the knock out stage.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Leinster beat Wasps by 48-28 in the Qtr Final and Biarritz by 44-16 in the Semi Final before dispatching Stade Francais in the Final in the RDS that season.
Given that Leinster only squeaked past Bath by 17-10 in their last visit to the Recreation Ground they won't have unrealistic expectations prior to tomorrow's match. At the minimum we need a losing bonus point after being screwed over by EPCR on the outcome of the first Montpellier match. The score last week was partly in response to the annoyance felt about the decision and also a result of the fact that the Montpellier team was exceptionally callow. There were 3 nineteen years old's in the Montpellier team as well as a number of 2nd's and 3rd's players. While Bath is not going particularly well at present we won't be given a pass by them at the Rec as we were in the RDs last week.
Given that Leinster only squeaked past Bath by 17-10 in their last visit to the Recreation Ground they won't have unrealistic expectations prior to tomorrow's match. At the minimum we need a losing bonus point after being screwed over by EPCR on the outcome of the first Montpellier match. The score last week was partly in response to the annoyance felt about the decision and also a result of the fact that the Montpellier team was exceptionally callow. There were 3 nineteen years old's in the Montpellier team as well as a number of 2nd's and 3rd's players. While Bath is not going particularly well at present we won't be given a pass by them at the Rec as we were in the RDs last week.
Quote:JohnB2
Leinster beat Wasps by 48-28 in the Qtr Final and Biarritz by 44-16 in the Semi Final before dispatching Stade Francais in the Final in the RDS that season.
Given that Leinster only squeaked past Bath by 17-10 in their last visit to the Recreation Ground they won't have unrealistic expectations prior to tomorrow's match. At the minimum we need a losing bonus point after being screwed over by EPCR on the outcome of the first Montpellier match. The score last week was partly in response to the annoyance felt about the decision and also a result of the fact that the Montpellier team was exceptionally callow. There were 3 nineteen years old's in the Montpellier team as well as a number of 2nd's and 3rd's players. While Bath is not going particularly well at present we won't be given a pass by them at the Rec as we were in the RDs last week.
Very generous JohnB2, as Bath supporters we have no illusions as to the result we do however, have some pockets of inspired young talent who, if fit can surprise. Leinster's mix of star talent, excellent coaching and teamwork will be hard to beat and in my mind are favourites to win the whole thing so good luck this weekend but always remember rugby is cyclic.
Team Up.
Underhill returns.
Bath Rugby side to face Leinster
15 Ruaridh McConnochie, 14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb, 13 Max Clark, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Tom Prydie, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Arthur Cordwell, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Will Spencer, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Tom Doughty, 17 Will Vaughan, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Josh McNally, 20 Mike Williams, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Will Butt
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Underhill returns.
Bath Rugby side to face Leinster
15 Ruaridh McConnochie, 14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb, 13 Max Clark, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Tom Prydie, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ben Spencer; 1 Arthur Cordwell, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Will Spencer, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Tom Doughty, 17 Will Vaughan, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Josh McNally, 20 Mike Williams, 21 Joe Simpson, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Will Butt
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Good to see Will Spencer trusted to start.
Otherwise, a few youngsters - Hamer-Webb, Cordwell, Ojomoh, Butt getting a chance to pit themselves against potential champions.
Wonder where Dunn & JJ are? Injured, infected or omitted?
PG
Otherwise, a few youngsters - Hamer-Webb, Cordwell, Ojomoh, Butt getting a chance to pit themselves against potential champions.
Wonder where Dunn & JJ are? Injured, infected or omitted?
PG
THE OPPOSITION
15 Hugo Keenan, 14 Jordan Larmour, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Jimmy O’Brien, 10 Johnny Sexton ©, 9 Luke McGrath; 1 Andrew Porter, 2 Ronan Kelleher, 3 Michael Ala’alatoa, 4 Ross Molony, 5 Josh Murphy, 6 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 Jack Conan
REPLACEMENTS
16 Dan Sheehan, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Vakh Abadaladze, 19 Ryan Baird, 20 Max Deegan, 21 Jamison Gibson-Park, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Ciaran Frawley
15 Hugo Keenan, 14 Jordan Larmour, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Robbie Henshaw, 11 Jimmy O’Brien, 10 Johnny Sexton ©, 9 Luke McGrath; 1 Andrew Porter, 2 Ronan Kelleher, 3 Michael Ala’alatoa, 4 Ross Molony, 5 Josh Murphy, 6 Caelan Doris, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 Jack Conan
REPLACEMENTS
16 Dan Sheehan, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Vakh Abadaladze, 19 Ryan Baird, 20 Max Deegan, 21 Jamison Gibson-Park, 22 Ross Byrne, 23 Ciaran Frawley
Meh, we should have enough to see that lot off...COYB!!! 
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
If we keep them from scoring over 50 points I'll be delighted. I think we are going to be on the wrong end of some of these 
. We need that hiding behind the sofa emoji back!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
. We need that hiding behind the sofa emoji back!Quote:Murty7
Wonder where Valery is this week
I daresay like a lot of our signings he's probably played one match and then suffered a long term injury...
I think there’s some front row rotation going on to keep people fit/ available for next Friday
Registration for Euro competitions an issue for ("Why don't you come on over") Valery?
Is Cordwell 5th choice LHP? Nothing too lose for him!
Obano, Boyce, Valery, Shoeman
Is Cordwell 5th choice LHP? Nothing too lose for him!
Obano, Boyce, Valery, Shoeman
Quote:Shadders
Registration for Euro competitions an issue for ("Why don't you come on over") Valery?
Is Cordwell 5th choice LHP? Nothing too lose for him!
Obano, Boyce, Valery, Shoeman
It's bonkers that we are down to 5th and 6th choice looseheads.
I know it's no excuse for the season to date but continually missing about 15-20 players doesn't exactly help!
Good experience for some of those players and the good news is that Cordwell will not be facing Tadhg Furlong - that is it folks the only positive.
Come on boys give it your best and you just never know but please don't let it get too embarrassing.
Come on boys give it your best and you just never know but please don't let it get too embarrassing.
It's a pity that the likes of Furlong, Ryan, Leavy and Lowe are unavailable to Leinster but it's good to have Ryan Baird and Robbie Henshaw back in the fold.
What exactly is wrong with Cipriani. He seems to be taking a very long time recoverimg from a head injury.
And what about that SA no8? and Faletau? We seem to have some very young players taking on a massive workload
And what about that SA no8? and Faletau? We seem to have some very young players taking on a massive workload
Quote:fanindevon
What exactly is wrong with Cipriani. He seems to be taking a very long time recoverimg from a head injury.
And what about that SA no8? and Faletau? We seem to have some very young players taking on a massive workload
Cipriani had concussion then covid according to Hoops. Jaco Coetzee and Faletau still injured. TBF back row is just about the least of the issues, its not like 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss is a particularly green back row - Ellis is 27 and the other 2 are full internationals.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Due to building works there is no room behind the sofa so will just have to watch and enjoy.
Live on Channel 4 at 12.30. I think I'll tune in as usual at 3.00pm and pretend to be distressed I missed it because it was early!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:fanindevon
What exactly is wrong with Cipriani. He seems to be taking a very long time recoverimg from a head injury.
And what about that SA no8? and Faletau? We seem to have some very young players taking on a massive workload
Cipriani had concussion then covid according to Hoops. Jaco Coetzee and Faletau still injured. TBF back row is just about the least of the issues, its not like 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss is a particularly green back row - Ellis is 27 and the other 2 are full internationals.
Yep, backrow and back 3 we have decent depth.
Ellis, underhill, bayliss is good considering we are missing coetzee, faletau, reid etc
Back three of rmc, prydie and ghw isn't awful given we are missing tdg, watson, roko, muir, coko etc.
We have had some awful seasons for injuries but this season for injuries and covid is farcial....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:21:17:36:53 by charlieboa.
Quote:shipwrecked
Live on Channel 4 at 12.30. I think I'll tune in as usual at 3.00pm and pretend to be distressed I missed it because it was early!
As its on tv you can probably put it on record SW, lucky you. May even be able to stream it straight away on ALL4 or if all else fails watch it on CH4+1. Your excuses will have to be good to avoid that lot - maybe scissors through the TV cable by 'accident'? Teething puppy?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Replays on Sky Cinema Channel 311 Horror??
I actually think it won't be that bad, at home surely we will put up a decent fight for 60 mins at least.
I actually think it won't be that bad, at home surely we will put up a decent fight for 60 mins at least.
Quote:B4thB4ck
Replays on Sky Cinema Channel 311 Horror??
I actually think it won't be that bad, at home surely we will put up a decent fight for 60 mins at least.
LOL!
Lots of fair criticism for Faletau on these boards but there should be little doubt he's indoctrinated his son into being a supporter of Bath Rugby. His chant on Instagram should be officially adopted by all followers of the blue, black and white.
I well remember an HC game with Leinster at the Rec many years ago when BOD, Dempsey, Darcy, Horgan and co absolutely shredded us. But also remember driving home thinking that I had just witnessed a masterclass in running rugby.
I am predicting that my drive back to the New Forest tomorrow will be similar.
Porter v Stuart will be interesting.
I am predicting that my drive back to the New Forest tomorrow will be similar.
Porter v Stuart will be interesting.
Lambs to the Slaughter. If we lose by less than 30 points, that we be a excellent result. Unbelievable.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
What I will be looking for is not a win but a significant improvement in how we defend. We have now had Van Rensburg for a number of weeks & we should be starting to show noticeable improvement by now.. Of course, we would like to see a similar improvement in our attacking effectiveness but I think we need to focus on defence first & foremost.. if we can keep their margin of victory to under 20 points we will have done well against that side. & that would give us something to build on.
I make it about 19 players we are missing. Has there been another covid outbreak in the squad? Missed the press stuff this week.
Not going to judge too harshly today- selection is basically ' do you have 4 vaguely functioning limbs' , if so you are in. It's not actually a bad squad given that.
As you say hopefully Brent has had more impact now and we keep it respectable. Just want some desire and passion in defence at least.
Not going to judge too harshly today- selection is basically ' do you have 4 vaguely functioning limbs' , if so you are in. It's not actually a bad squad given that.
As you say hopefully Brent has had more impact now and we keep it respectable. Just want some desire and passion in defence at least.
Quote:charlieboa
As you say hopefully Brent has had more impact now and we keep it respectable. Just want some desire and passion in defence at least.
…….and they have all the familiar star names. How do they manage that? Desire & passion, absolutely, but also organisation. Under Hatley our defence has been a complete shambles, always too narrow & lack of movement. Remember the match against Saracens when we were thrashed. In that game we had a lot of possession & hammering away near their line but their defence was amazing, an unbreakable line spanning the entire width of the pitch as if to say “You shall not pass”
We need to see some of that rather than constantly ushering them over the line.
Quote:shipwrecked
Live on Channel 4 at 12.30. I think I'll tune in as usual at 3.00pm and pretend to be distressed I missed it because it was early!
I record it just in case but delete it as I can’t stand the pain but at least by doing that you are ready to witness an an amazing redemption, possibly a second time if attending. . Almost impossible but you never know. Hopefully WH can overcome Man U to make up for last week SW.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboa
As you say hopefully Brent has had more impact now and we keep it respectable. Just want some desire and passion in defence at least.
…….and they have all the familiar star names. How do they manage that? Desire & passion, absolutely, but also organisation. Under Hatley our defence has been a complete shambles, always too narrow & lack of movement. Remember the match against Saracens when we were thrashed. In that game we had a lot of possession & hammering away near their line but their defence was amazing, an unbreakable line spanning the entire width of the pitch as if to say “You shall not pass”
We need to see some of that rather than constantly ushering them over the line.
Totally agree. I absolutely think mindset and desire gets you a long way defensively but not if you don't have a clue what you are doing or any faith in the system.
Feels like repeatedly conceding soft tries out wide should be obvious and an easy fix but no evidence so far .. Tbf will be harsh to judge progress today as leinster backs can unpick the best defences
Quote:Bath Hammer
Remember the match against Saracens when we were thrashed. In that game we had a lot of possession & hammering away near their line but their defence was amazing, an unbreakable line spanning the entire width of the pitch as if to say “You shall not pass”
It was made a lot easier by the fact that their forwards were hugely dominant on that day and our backs were constantly back-pedalling against superior numbers as a result. It's not possible to win a game under those circumstances. I'm hoping that today isn't the same but looking at the qaulity in their pack and bench I think that our lads will have the legs run off them.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Well they only have 13 players from their 6 nation squad in the line up! What’s the problem?
Quote:Kidney Stone
I well remember an HC game with Leinster at the Rec many years ago when BOD, Dempsey, Darcy, Horgan and co absolutely shredded us. But also remember driving home thinking that I had just witnessed a masterclass in running rugby.
I am predicting that my drive back to the New Forest tomorrow will be similar.
Porter v Stuart will be interesting.
I remember that game too. Went into it thinking we weren’t half bad and ended up being well and truly schooled. I seem to remember they ran at us constantly for 80 mins. Probably the best live rugby I’ve ever had the fortune to see.
We can only hope all the Ireland squad players are just a little less committed to the tackle/ruck etc and Sexton being rusty on his return... But I don't hold out much (any really) hope of getting anything from this one. So can be relaxed , go and watch my local team in Nat 2 South , then watch the game on BT later ...
PS good luck to AC on his Euro front row starting debut, seems like last week he played in the same Bath uni team as my lad !
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:22:10:12:37 by LSAR.
PS good luck to AC on his Euro front row starting debut, seems like last week he played in the same Bath uni team as my lad !
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:22:10:12:37 by LSAR.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:shipwrecked
Live on Channel 4 at 12.30. I think I'll tune in as usual at 3.00pm and pretend to be distressed I missed it because it was early!
I record it just in case but delete it as I can’t stand the pain but at least by doing that you are ready to witness an an amazing redemption, possibly a second time if attending. . Almost impossible but you never know. Hopefully WH can overcome Man U to make up for last week SW.
I am so hoping West Ham beat MU twice in a season after our league cup win!
Wife has suggested getting doing some grocery shopping lunchtime, tempting as I'm not too sure about Matt's suggestion of accidentally cutting the TV cable!
Prydie out so Butt starts. Presume Clark to wing and Butt with Redpath in the centres. The lesser spotted Darren Atkins on the bench.
Helluva young back line now, against international and Lions quality opponents, but our lads have nothing to lose. Hope they give it their best.
Helluva young back line now, against international and Lions quality opponents, but our lads have nothing to lose. Hope they give it their best.
Craig Doyle: "Who knows what could happen today, a bonus point win and Bath could qualify"
Quote:dr.bath1865
Prydie out so Butt starts. Presume Clark to wing and Butt with Redpath in the centres. The lesser spotted Darren Atkins on the bench.
Helluva young back line now, against international and Lions quality opponents, but our lads have nothing to lose. Hope they give it their best.
Butt on the wing apparently!
Bayliss and Underhill surely HIAs!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Clear evidence of Brent van Rensburg's defence coaching on show today!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If you really want to torture yourself, watch this dross with Heaslip commentating.
Quote:P G Tips
What on earth is happening with all these injuries!
PG
Answering my own question -apparently Covid got Prydie.
PG
Quote:BathMatt53
If we can avoid injuries and keep it below 50 then it's turned out better a I am expecting and there would certainly be no shame.
Oh well, with about 1/2 a dozen injuries and a cricket scoreline it wasn't better than expected unfortunately. Can we end the season now please?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
A masterclass from Leinster in both attack and defence.
3 HIAs for Bath, plus other injuries - looking bleak for next Friday night.
PG
3 HIAs for Bath, plus other injuries - looking bleak for next Friday night.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
A masterclass from Leinster in both attack and defence.
3 HIAs for Bath, plus other injuries - looking bleak for next Friday night.
PG
Yes but for merely £55 you can sit exposed to the elements watching a clueless U-21 side get pumped at home to the League Champions. So really why would you not enjoy next Friday regardless of all that?
As a neutral who has no skin in the game with Bath, but remembers watching them from the amateur days and the golden period of the 80s-90s i am at a loss to understand what is happening to your team this term. Yes it has been 14 years since you had silverware, but when you look at those available to you I cannot get my head around the performances.
Admittedly today there was some grit in the first 20, and effort for the full 80. But the inaccuracy, the defensive holes, the amount of losses surprises and alarms in equal measure. Today the moment Leinster cut out the errors and tightened their discipline the game just rapidly moved away from the BB&W’s. Leinster are class, but to concede 10 tries and only score an intercept at your home ground is worrying. The only team I can remember seeing such consistent losses and heavy defeats against were London Welsh.
I truely hope things turn around for your club. Clubs like Bath need to be performing well. At least there is no relegation so rebuilding can happen. We already have lost famous clubs such as Richmond, Blackheath, Rugby, Orrel, Roslyn park and Coventry from the top echelons of the sport, we need to ensure all those left can push for honours more regularly.
Admittedly today there was some grit in the first 20, and effort for the full 80. But the inaccuracy, the defensive holes, the amount of losses surprises and alarms in equal measure. Today the moment Leinster cut out the errors and tightened their discipline the game just rapidly moved away from the BB&W’s. Leinster are class, but to concede 10 tries and only score an intercept at your home ground is worrying. The only team I can remember seeing such consistent losses and heavy defeats against were London Welsh.
I truely hope things turn around for your club. Clubs like Bath need to be performing well. At least there is no relegation so rebuilding can happen. We already have lost famous clubs such as Richmond, Blackheath, Rugby, Orrel, Roslyn park and Coventry from the top echelons of the sport, we need to ensure all those left can push for honours more regularly.
I have to say I’m at a loss. I thought defensively we looked better for a while but to no avail. It’s true they have quality but we also have individuals who should be able to find a gap occasionally & show a bit of individual flair but it never happens. We don’t recover quickly enough , we don’t react to situations, we’re not quick enough, we’re not resilient enough, we’re not even lucky enough & do we really deserve all these injuries? I don’t think they had any. I find it utterly baffling & the new coaching team has a huge task to turn round a team that would struggle in the championship at present.
Compete and utter chaos. And not in the sense that Mike Ford wanted. Two scrum halves on the field. A hooker at flanker. HIAs. Injuries….
We all knew they were going to be better than us, but why is it always so… desperate? Sigh. Depressing doesn’t really come close. Comical, more like.
Still, Bailey was pretty good, all things considered.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:22:15:43:58 by dr.bath1865.
We all knew they were going to be better than us, but why is it always so… desperate? Sigh. Depressing doesn’t really come close. Comical, more like.
Still, Bailey was pretty good, all things considered.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:22:15:43:58 by dr.bath1865.
Quote:wombles222
I truely hope things turn around for your club. Clubs like Bath need to be performing well. At least there is no relegation so rebuilding can happen. We already have lost famous clubs such as Richmond, Blackheath, Rugby, Orrel, Roslyn park and Coventry from the top echelons of the sport, we need to ensure all those left can push for honours more regularly.
Thanks for the pity, it makes us feel all the better.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I'm not sure we will realise the fallout from this until early next week, 2 more internationals out plus other injuries yet to be discovered. Defence was better for a while as BH mentioned but we fell apart after Bayliss and Underhill got replaced.
Orlando Bailey still showed up as an attacking force despite getting stuffed up front. Were we poor or were Leinster simply too good? Bit of both really, in reality we watched Ireland v Bath 3rds as BM mentioned, a total mismatch.
Francois Louw on the TV coverage, is he still Bath based?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Orlando Bailey still showed up as an attacking force despite getting stuffed up front. Were we poor or were Leinster simply too good? Bit of both really, in reality we watched Ireland v Bath 3rds as BM mentioned, a total mismatch.
Francois Louw on the TV coverage, is he still Bath based?
Just as well Sportnetwork/rugbynetwork was down for most of the game, otherwise we'd have even more figuratively jumping from windows. There were flashes of inspiration, and Leinster were, well, Leinster. Despite the scoreline I was encouraged by some of the play, and at least Bath kept going for the full 80,
Totally outclassed in all departments. Defence almost non-existent and attack relied on lucky circumstance or rare opposition quirk. I do not accept the "at least they played till the end" rot as they weren't playing, they were on some zombie plain where pain, humiliation, teamwork and creativity were forgotten dreams. The only positive of the day was the Bath fans. If only the team showed half their defiance and purpose.
I look at the team sheets and know that they will be beaten, but the nature and experience of our squad should at least make it some kind of contest. It was not. It was a walk-over. The idea that we have conceded ten tries at home and accept it as the state we are in, is just appalling. To play like we did, to take on more injuries to key players and to show no discernible improvement or new idea or tactical approach to that which has mired our last three seasons is just unforgivable. Yes, Leinster is a brilliant rugby team, but Bath took woefulness to depths not even Cousteau ever visited.
I keep wondering what it is that Bath actually practice and train at all week at Farleigh. It sure isn't rugby.
I look at the team sheets and know that they will be beaten, but the nature and experience of our squad should at least make it some kind of contest. It was not. It was a walk-over. The idea that we have conceded ten tries at home and accept it as the state we are in, is just appalling. To play like we did, to take on more injuries to key players and to show no discernible improvement or new idea or tactical approach to that which has mired our last three seasons is just unforgivable. Yes, Leinster is a brilliant rugby team, but Bath took woefulness to depths not even Cousteau ever visited.
I keep wondering what it is that Bath actually practice and train at all week at Farleigh. It sure isn't rugby.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:wombles222
I truely hope things turn around for your club. Clubs like Bath need to be performing well. At least there is no relegation so rebuilding can happen. We already have lost famous clubs such as Richmond, Blackheath, Rugby, Orrel, Roslyn park and Coventry from the top echelons of the sport, we need to ensure all those left can push for honours more regularly.
Thanks for the pity, it makes us feel all the better.
Give him a break Matt - it reads to me as genuine sympathy.
PG
Sorry Bath are making changes at the end of the season.However all the coaching staff should stand down for the good of the club including the DOR.
Why can’t Will Spencer ever last a whole game? He was pretty anonymous for such a huge guy and didn’t even see him get substituted but noticed him sat on the sidelines half way through the second half.
Well I can't wait to see the growing fanbase we've recruited with our terrestrial TV outing. Truly the next generation of fans recruited.
Anyway time to log on and check the score...
Anyway time to log on and check the score...
Quote:P G Tips
Give him a break Matt - it reads to me as genuine sympathy.
PG
Fair enough, just a bit raw - I apologise. I broke my rule about not commenting until the next day.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Jon Chess
A total trashing. Imagine paying to watch it? Unbelievable
Well I did and was there and witnessed some decent rugby from Leinster.
We just treat it like going to the comedy club and laugh quite a lot on how badly organised Bath are. The new defence coach hasn’t had any positive impact and Leinster like all other teams waltzed through the middle of our “defensive line”. As for the attack, is Williams still at the club? If he is I’m not sure what he’s doing.
On the bright side the young players continue to improve and the scrum could have been a lot worse.
No doubt though, Bath are the worst team in the history of English professional rugby.
Mr Hooper please do the right thing and resign to give the club a lift.
We ended the game with 5, yes 5 front row forwards on the pitch.
I thought there was a huge amount of heart and effort and in many respects our defence was good. However each time it wasn't, Leinster were utterly ruthless and scored. The season of have no luck what so ever was summed up by their final try - a hit and hope try and the ball stays in rather than rolls out.
The squad have no confidence what so ever, which is understandable, and the complete opposite of Leinster.
With so much disruption just before and during the match I think the players can hold their heads high tonight. Before the late changes there were 29 senior players unavailble.
Low on confidence we tried to force things too often, and that resulted in mistakes that resulted in Leinster tries on a number of occassions.
A huge learning experience for some of the young guns.
The number of players injured and unavailable is horrific.
I thought there was a huge amount of heart and effort and in many respects our defence was good. However each time it wasn't, Leinster were utterly ruthless and scored. The season of have no luck what so ever was summed up by their final try - a hit and hope try and the ball stays in rather than rolls out.
The squad have no confidence what so ever, which is understandable, and the complete opposite of Leinster.
With so much disruption just before and during the match I think the players can hold their heads high tonight. Before the late changes there were 29 senior players unavailble.
Low on confidence we tried to force things too often, and that resulted in mistakes that resulted in Leinster tries on a number of occassions.
A huge learning experience for some of the young guns.
The number of players injured and unavailable is horrific.
Commitment was much better. We started with increased physicality but our confidence is paper thin and we crack very easily. Nice touches from Bailey but we have no attacking options and our defensive shape is woeful. It would be nice to keep some fit backs together for a game or two!
We are either too narrow in defence or in trying to come up fast get picked apart. At least we are trying to put pressure on sides in defence but this season is over bar a miracle in the baby European cup.
Thought Cordwell stood up well. I pray this season will be a foundation for the young guys coming through but we must get some wins in the second half of the year to build some belief.
We are either too narrow in defence or in trying to come up fast get picked apart. At least we are trying to put pressure on sides in defence but this season is over bar a miracle in the baby European cup.
Thought Cordwell stood up well. I pray this season will be a foundation for the young guys coming through but we must get some wins in the second half of the year to build some belief.
I accept the adversity we faced but I still don’t think we approached the level expected from professional rugby players wearing the Bath jersey. There is a basic level of expectation notwithstanding how many players are missing & we are nowhere near that week after week. Yes, early on we defended better than we have been doing, a few big hits, but it didn’t last. In attack we get absolutely nowhere, so easy to defend against & no speed of thought or inspiration. I heard a post match interview in which Charlie Ewells said we are improving. Apart from that early endeavour in defence I can’t say that I noticed how we’ve improved & why have we declined so much in the first place?
I was expecting this to be worse than it was…. Bath did well for the first 18 min t9 hold them out, although didn’t take their own chances, then Leinster did what was expected and showed their class. I think there was some small improvement in defence, but clearly nowhere near enough to hold our a team like Leinster. Attack is nonexistent unfortunately.
Hopefully the young players are able to learn from these experiences and the injuries aren’t serious.
Hopefully the young players are able to learn from these experiences and the injuries aren’t serious.
29 players potentially unavailable next week for the game against Quins. Lords have mercy.
I don’t want to bang on but… I cannot compute how Bath Rugby, the entire organisation, is putting out performances such as today, which I think was our heaviest ever home defeat. I agree we “fought until the end” etc but that’s the very least you should expect of a professional rugby team. It’s truly pathetic, even with our level of absentees take into account, and I’d love to learn, off the record, what a guy like Ben Spencer, who used to compete with and beat the likes of Leinster, makes of it all.
Of course, the absentees are a hindrance. But all clubs have them (Wasps beat Toulouse last week, Leicester beaten week before…) and you have to ask why oh why for season after season are we the club with 20+ guys missing week after week. A hunch says it’s because we’re always on the back foot, so we pick up more collision injuries, but no idea if that bears out in evidence. Either way, as I mentions above, the chaos of our run on team (missing X number of internationals) to the way we finish games (hookers at flanker, scrum halves on the wing) is a complete shambles.
Whatever it is, however you want to word it, the whole thing is rotten and, dare I say it, and likely will think a little more rose tinted in the morning, an embarrassment to the city and the history of the club. Change is afoot, but it’s not happening fast enough. I was in the camp of “get through with these coaches, build the youth, pick up some wins etc” until season end but after the latest 80 minute embarrassment, I’d sack the entire coaching staff tonight and give the players the reins on Monday morning, with Brian Ashton perhaps brought in to whisper a few words of encouragement. Never have I ever been more disappointed or embarrassed to be a supporter, and there have been some lows this season already, and which is not taking away from the quality of Leinster.
I’m off for a Gem or three. Sorry for the diatribe.
Of course, the absentees are a hindrance. But all clubs have them (Wasps beat Toulouse last week, Leicester beaten week before…) and you have to ask why oh why for season after season are we the club with 20+ guys missing week after week. A hunch says it’s because we’re always on the back foot, so we pick up more collision injuries, but no idea if that bears out in evidence. Either way, as I mentions above, the chaos of our run on team (missing X number of internationals) to the way we finish games (hookers at flanker, scrum halves on the wing) is a complete shambles.
Whatever it is, however you want to word it, the whole thing is rotten and, dare I say it, and likely will think a little more rose tinted in the morning, an embarrassment to the city and the history of the club. Change is afoot, but it’s not happening fast enough. I was in the camp of “get through with these coaches, build the youth, pick up some wins etc” until season end but after the latest 80 minute embarrassment, I’d sack the entire coaching staff tonight and give the players the reins on Monday morning, with Brian Ashton perhaps brought in to whisper a few words of encouragement. Never have I ever been more disappointed or embarrassed to be a supporter, and there have been some lows this season already, and which is not taking away from the quality of Leinster.
I’m off for a Gem or three. Sorry for the diatribe.
Nothing to add except Cordwell should be pretty proud of how he coped in the scrum albeit despite the quality of their pack Leinster did seem to regard the scrum as another opportunity to launch their backs. That's me done on that shambles!
For what it’s worth and I’m as deflated as everyone, losing your two fastest back rows to injury early didn’t help today and this competition is so unbalanced to the English and Welsh clubs in terms of squads and money its pathetic.
I thought the boys brought real intensity today and although we pressured Ireland ( sorry Leinster ) for twenty minutes after that it was men against boys, and making breaks just seemed so easy for them.
It’s going to be hard watching for the rest of the season
Widcombe Garçon
I thought the boys brought real intensity today and although we pressured Ireland ( sorry Leinster ) for twenty minutes after that it was men against boys, and making breaks just seemed so easy for them.
It’s going to be hard watching for the rest of the season
Widcombe Garçon
It's fitness.
Or players aren't fit enough.
Or at leady they have the wrong *sort* of fitness.
It's the root cause of the penalties, the sloppy handling errors, the poor decision making and I would also extend to saying some (not all) of the injuries.
Or players aren't fit enough.
Or at leady they have the wrong *sort* of fitness.
It's the root cause of the penalties, the sloppy handling errors, the poor decision making and I would also extend to saying some (not all) of the injuries.
Why do we organise our defensive line in such a way that our props are next to each other?
Quote:hasta
Why do we organise our defensive line in such a way that our props are next to each other?
That's why they are called props they have to hold each other up! .............. sorry Hasta.
Quote:hasta
Why do we organise our defensive line in such a way that our props are next to each other?
They might have been next to each other, but there was still a big enough gap for any Leinster player to go through.
It's embarrassing. Someone, anyone take control of our club. Clear the dead wood out. Yes that includes Hooper, fed up with so called Bath fans defending him. The guy is out of his depth and has set Bath up to fail every time. Not qualified to run a national one team.
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I didn't watch.
Playing leinster whilst at rock bottom with 20+ players out.
Absolute humping was inevitable sadly, add pre-match drop out and in match injuries and it just gets worse and worse.
I watched the u18s this eve for my dose of disappointment.
Playing leinster whilst at rock bottom with 20+ players out.
Absolute humping was inevitable sadly, add pre-match drop out and in match injuries and it just gets worse and worse.
I watched the u18s this eve for my dose of disappointment.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
If I was club hierarchy I'd be worried about how apathetic folk sound in the stands. Get the expected drilling, start shuffling off at the 65 minute mark. Need to generate some enthusiasm PDQ…
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Sorry but no.. we were almost closer than the ref.. Ben was less than 10 m out and I don’t think anyone could have touched him. The only defender was way more than 10 m away from Ben and had to also get across and make up the 10 m so no chance..
You can argue till the cows come home about Leinster being the Irish national team & destined to win or that not being the case so I suggest you see how much better we fare against Bristol next week. Not a lot I would suggest. Every week we lose by a big margin we are told it is because of one sided referees & players missing. I’m not convinced.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Sorry but no.. we were almost closer than the ref.. Ben was less than 10 m out and I don’t think anyone could have touched him. The only defender was way more than 10 m away from Ben and had to also get across and make up the 10 m so no chance..
From the TV, I felt it should have been a penalty try. Spencer was deliberately bumped by the first player and taken out by the second, totally cynical and no one would have got close to him.
But Bath have no luck at all.
I think Quins and the Irish provinces have stolen it all.
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Not sure about that CC.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Sorry but no.. we were almost closer than the ref.. Ben was less than 10 m out and I don’t think anyone could have touched him. The only defender was way more than 10 m away from Ben and had to also get across and make up the 10 m so no chance..
I wish I could agree but he was brought down by clumsy running by Deeny and not deliberate from the replay. It was also just over their 22. I must admit I thought it should be a pen try but the highlights show it way out and there was cover. Penalty correct decision!
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:TG KesmoQuote:CoochieCoo
Because there was an opposition player in front of Ben.
A post on our FB page is pertinent:
Quote:At one point I think we had two hookers, 4 second rows, 2 scrum halves and 4 centres on the pitch. You can’t compete with the Irish national team with that, even if we were top of the league
I don’t think there was We were directly in front of Ben there was no one who didn’t play him who was in any position to tackle before he scored.
I agree, the law says "A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted."
I'd say it was more than probable that BS would have scored!
From where I was sat there was a player to the right of the posts and Ben kicked ahead left of the posts and was brought down illegally quite away from the try line. Agreed the defender had a lot to do get to the ball but do did Ben. Ben could have scored but the defender could have got there first as well. There was too much doubt for a probability!
Sorry but no.. we were almost closer than the ref.. Ben was less than 10 m out and I don’t think anyone could have touched him. The only defender was way more than 10 m away from Ben and had to also get across and make up the 10 m so no chance..
I wish I could agree but he was brought down by clumsy running by Deeny and not deliberate from the replay. It was also just over their 22. I must admit I thought it should be a pen try but the highlights show it way out and there was cover. Penalty correct decision!
He was yellow carded and didn't argue at all so foul play, the pic shows there was no cover, might have looked it from ground level but O'Brien was nowhere near.
Doesn't make the slightest bit of difference though!
Quote:'So called'... I'm not sure about Hooper, will wait to see how things go when we have what looks like a coaching team that's at least vaguely fit for purpose. I don't think you question the passion of fans who don't see things as being as clear cut as you do. Everyone's fed up, most want the season to end now. We've got a load of dead men walking coaching a battered team missing too many good players. That's how it is and there's not much that can be done until the end of the season. All this 'Sack everyone and let the players just give it a go' might satisfy the need to see a few people lose their jobs but I'm not sure it achieves much. As to the crowd-given the pasting we were watching I thought there was some decent support right to the end and not too many people leaving. PS, thought it should have been a penalty try-I must be stood quite close to you TGK, but obviously in the grand scheme of things it's pretty unimportant!Bath Blues
It's embarrassing. Someone, anyone take control of our club. Clear the dead wood out. Yes that includes Hooper, fed up with so called Bath fans defending him. The guy is out of his depth and has set Bath up to fail every time. Not qualified to run a national one team.
If the BS incident was a penalty try, then the GHW yellow card should’ve been a penalty try, too. No way Max C was in a position to make a cover tackle.
Again, not that any of it mattered a jot.
Again, not that any of it mattered a jot.
Quote:dr.bath1865
If the BS incident was a penalty try, then the GHW yellow card should’ve been a penalty try, too. No way Max C was in a position to make a cover tackle.
Again, not that any of it mattered a jot.
I agree with that, MC was much closer than O'Brien in the BS incident but if the pass had gone to hand he was in for a try.
“Sometimes, rock bottom is a great foundation,” Hatley said. “We’re not happy with it, we’re not proud of it, we’re disappointed with where we are. We’ve got to make sure we put things in place at this great club that we never find ourselves in this position again.”
For the first time in a long time, an honest post match interview. Here, here, Hats. Do whatever it is you’ve got to do.
For the first time in a long time, an honest post match interview. Here, here, Hats. Do whatever it is you’ve got to do.
So in short it was a penalty try because Ben S would have scored if the second carded player hadn’t “tackled” him without the ball. Cynical foul correctly carded but no advantage to Bath.
The holding back of Clark was equally cynical but somehow cards are never awarded for foul play that stop the prevention of a try only the scoring. Same effect on the scoreboard.
The holding back of Clark was equally cynical but somehow cards are never awarded for foul play that stop the prevention of a try only the scoring. Same effect on the scoreboard.
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:dr.bath1865
If the BS incident was a penalty try, then the GHW yellow card should’ve been a penalty try, too. No way Max C was in a position to make a cover tackle.
Again, not that any of it mattered a jot.
I agree with that, MC was much closer than O'Brien in the BS incident but if the pass had gone to hand he was in for a try.
And that makes the probability of BS scoring only a possibility, SW. BS would have had to gather the ball some 20 metres out and the cover from O’brien (no slouch from what I saw) and Deeny himself leaves it not probable try but possible! The commentators appear to have agreed with the ref and I felt aggrieved at the time but now consider it a good decision having seen the footage.
Quote:CoochieCooQuote:shipwreckedQuote:dr.bath1865
If the BS incident was a penalty try, then the GHW yellow card should’ve been a penalty try, too. No way Max C was in a position to make a cover tackle.
Again, not that any of it mattered a jot.
I agree with that, MC was much closer than O'Brien in the BS incident but if the pass had gone to hand he was in for a try.
And that makes the probability of BS scoring only a possibility, SW. BS would have had to gather the ball some 20 metres out and the cover from O’brien (no slouch from what I saw) and Deeny himself leaves it not probable try but possible! The commentators appear to have agreed with the ref and I felt aggrieved at the time but now consider it a good decision having seen the footage.
I've listened to both commentaries now CC, both very 'green tinted' I don't agree the distance is about 15m from the image, there is no-one between BS and the try line O'Brien has to run the hypotenuse of the triangle that simply isn't cover and Spencer isn't Charlie Ewels!
Well the loss was predictable, but Leinster were simply outstanding, Jack Conan in particular was incredible.
I actually thought that our starting front row did themselves proud, Cordwell was very solid. Thought Bailey did well too and Tom Ellis worked like a dog.
In game injuries to Josh, Sam, and Will Spencer meant constant changes in the pack. Max Clarke seemed badly crocked and Jonkers went off almost as soon as he came on. The cupboard is going to be bare for Quins.
I actually thought that our starting front row did themselves proud, Cordwell was very solid. Thought Bailey did well too and Tom Ellis worked like a dog.
In game injuries to Josh, Sam, and Will Spencer meant constant changes in the pack. Max Clarke seemed badly crocked and Jonkers went off almost as soon as he came on. The cupboard is going to be bare for Quins.
Just watched the game. Poor teams are unlucky and we are a poor team. The best we could have hoped for was no injuries, we didn't get that. We could have hoped for the bounce of the ball but we didn't get that either. We learned we are not as good as the Irish national team, but we knew that as well. Its very hard to tell what the point of that game was for us or, for that matter, Leinster.
I thought our young guys stood up and tried to play rugby with what limited ball they had but that was about it. Leinster were faster in thought and deed for the full 80 minutes. Something to aspire to perhaps.
I hope Josh and Sam are OK but both looked like bad head injuries. From a selfish BBW PoV, it probably means neither will start the 6N. Mike Williams should not have been permitted to play on, either. RMc's knee injury was just gutting - I hope it's not too bad.
My MotM - Charlie Ewels. Unstinting in a totally out-played cause.
And a word for the Rec. Full and supporting 'til the end. I was proud to be a member of the Brethren.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
I thought our young guys stood up and tried to play rugby with what limited ball they had but that was about it. Leinster were faster in thought and deed for the full 80 minutes. Something to aspire to perhaps.
I hope Josh and Sam are OK but both looked like bad head injuries. From a selfish BBW PoV, it probably means neither will start the 6N. Mike Williams should not have been permitted to play on, either. RMc's knee injury was just gutting - I hope it's not too bad.
My MotM - Charlie Ewels. Unstinting in a totally out-played cause.
And a word for the Rec. Full and supporting 'til the end. I was proud to be a member of the Brethren.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s yesterday.
Could someone aummarise thr injuries please?
I have now heard jonker, spencer, bayliss, underhill, clark, rnc... ?
Any more?
I can see now how combined with call ups that could see nearer to 30 in terns of missing players! Absolutely crazy
Could someone aummarise thr injuries please?
I have now heard jonker, spencer, bayliss, underhill, clark, rnc... ?
Any more?
I can see now how combined with call ups that could see nearer to 30 in terns of missing players! Absolutely crazy
It would seem worthwhile to consider why we received so many injuries in this match & our opponents none. Some have said that when you are constantly on the defensive, literally putting heads in the line, it will happen but we did a fair amount of attacking, ineffectively it’s true, but without injury to our opponents. It could be their speed on the ball but that surely works both ways. I certainly think they were ruthless & highly aggressive but staying just about within the rules, although needing to stop Spencer by foul means at that stage in the game was unacceptable to me. At times there was possibly an inadequate regard for their opponents safety, such as the fend off on Williams. That’s not the way I want to see the game played but something we have to accept. One thing I can’t accept, though, is that 6 or more injuries to nil is just bad luck.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:23:07:33:41 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:23:07:33:41 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:charlieboa
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s
In view of your repeated comment I take it they lost badly CB but I haven’t been able to find the result. With the risk that it will depress me even more can you reveal it please?
Does there come a time when a game has to be called off because of insufficient adequately trained players in certain positions causing risk to youngsters stepping up a level & playing out of position. We could end up having to call upon under 18’s at this rate!
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboa
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s
In view of your repeated comment I take it they lost badly CB but I haven’t been able to find the result. With the risk that it will depress me even more can you reveal it please?
Was an enjoyable game and results not the be all and end all at that level... just crave any win at the mo so horrible to lose in the manner we did.
Were 21-10 up with 5 mins to go and lost 21-31.
I didn't really understand the timing. Commentator said it was a 70 min game and we were winning at 70 mins. First half ended after 37 mins so no idea what happened.
Some good performances from the likes of Pearce, sela, timmons, green, harris I thought.
V mixed bag standard wise. Lots of good play but lots of bad handling errors and shanked kicks. Age of the guys I guess
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:23:08:08:22 by charlieboa.
Quote:charlieboaQuote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboa
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s
In view of your repeated comment I take it they lost badly CB but I haven’t been able to find the result. With the risk that it will depress me even more can you reveal it please?
Was an enjoyable game and results not the be all and end all at that level... just crave any win at the mo so horrible to lose in the manner we did.
V mixed bag standard wise. Lots of good play but lots of bad handling errors and shanked kicks. Age of the guys I guess
Oh well, they will feel comfortable if/when they progress to the first team!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:23:08:14:27 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboaQuote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboa
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s
In view of your repeated comment I take it they lost badly CB but I haven’t been able to find the result. With the risk that it will depress me even more can you reveal it please?
Was an enjoyable game and results not the be all and end all at that level... just crave any win at the mo so horrible to lose in the manner we did.
V mixed bag standard wise. Lots of good play but lots of bad handling errors and shanked kicks. Age of the guys I guess
Oh well, they will feel comfortable if/when they progress to the first team!
As will the quins conversely!
Tbf I think there is a decent handful of guys there who look good enough to make the senior academy, just gutting to those that way.
Green is a big ball carrier at 8 which is always useful harris looks a classy 12 (who can play 10).
Sela is a rare hope of producing a prem standard front 5 forward out of the academy.
My recollection is that Spencer hadn't collected the ball so difficult to give a PT as always a chance he might knock on or slow down so much to allow a covering tackle.
At what point does a team say we don't have enough players to fulfill the next match. Is the front row the only decider?
At what point does a team say we don't have enough players to fulfill the next match. Is the front row the only decider?
Quote:B4thB4ck
My recollection is that Spencer hadn't collected the ball so difficult to give a PT as always a chance he might knock on or slow down so much to allow a covering tackle.
At what point does a team say we don't have enough players to fulfill the next match. Is the front row the only decider?
Spencer hadn’t collected the ball because he was physically prevented from doing so which sort of negates your argument. We are getting to he wouldn’t have scored because a meteor might have struck him territory here. GHW’s a little more debatable because it was much further from the line and the cover was there whether they would have slowed up or not tried to tackle is again meteor strike territory.
As to your other point the front row any position is a definite. I’m not aware of others but if you were short of all forwards you couldn’t ask an outside back say to play in the scrum at this level un less they had some previous experience. Even then it would depend on physical suitability e.g. Banahan to back row maybe Atkins probably not
Quote:charlieboaQuote:Bath HammerQuote:charlieboa
As mentioned I rationed my misery to the u18s
In view of your repeated comment I take it they lost badly CB but I haven’t been able to find the result. With the risk that it will depress me even more can you reveal it please?
Was an enjoyable game and results not the be all and end all at that level... just crave any win at the mo so horrible to lose in the manner we did.
Were 21-10 up with 5 mins to go and lost 21-31.
I didn't really understand the timing. Commentator said it was a 70 min game and we were winning at 70 mins. First half ended after 37 mins so no idea what happened.
Some good performances from the likes of Pearce, sela, timmons, green, harris I thought.
V mixed bag standard wise. Lots of good play but lots of bad handling errors and shanked kicks. Age of the guys I guess
Agree CB clock ran to 80 minutes definitely not 35 minute halves.
Second half starts at 40 minutes and runs to 80 then stops, they are still playing! Game and video still working on the offy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:23:10:26:01 by shipwrecked.
When things are going wrong then everything conspires to make it worse often, and that is where Bath are.
Defeat was inevitable as we were playing a full strength Ireland side that needed to win. We had a scratch side with a back line that had never played together before & started with 4th choice loose head (5th choice on bench).
Watched it in TV with brother & it was frustrating rather than depressing. Everything went Leinster’s way & compounded our problems. 2 tries resulted from us kneeing the ball back up the tunnel to lose a scrum & give perfect turnover ball, then Verden accidentally kicked the ball as he secured the ball at a ruck, ricocheting it out the back for their backs to pounce on. Clear forward pass from Henshaw offload in corner not spotted by officials too.
Myself & brother said numerous times “you can’t make this up”.
As previous posters have said the team are showing spirit by getting physically involved but this is decimating the squad. Many more now unavailable:
Sam & Josh head knocks were freak collisions
Williams was result of putting himself about 110% (he played well)
Will Spencer hurt is shoulder early on & was in clear pain
Mc Connachie knee was twisted under the tackler & looks bad news for ligaments.
Jonker hobbled off at the end so the excellent Cordwell had to come back on after only a few minutes rest!! Or did he come on for Williams?????
Redpath was hobbling from half time but hopefully just a dead leg.
Max Clarke - missed him going off
At the end it was like my old 3rd team with everybody playing out of position. I think game finished with this team, although please correct me as we were losing track in front of TV:
Verden
Du Toit
Stuart
Ewels
Mc Nally
Doughty
Cordwell
Ellis
Simpson
Bailey
Hamer Webb
Ojomoh
Butt
Ben Spencer
Atkins
Not sure a squad can be raised for upcoming games to be safe.
Some positives!!!!!!
Ref did well
We didn’t give up
Cordwell stuck at it & scrum wasn’t pinged off the park
OB confidence unaffected
Crowd noise could clearly be heard
Defeat was inevitable as we were playing a full strength Ireland side that needed to win. We had a scratch side with a back line that had never played together before & started with 4th choice loose head (5th choice on bench).
Watched it in TV with brother & it was frustrating rather than depressing. Everything went Leinster’s way & compounded our problems. 2 tries resulted from us kneeing the ball back up the tunnel to lose a scrum & give perfect turnover ball, then Verden accidentally kicked the ball as he secured the ball at a ruck, ricocheting it out the back for their backs to pounce on. Clear forward pass from Henshaw offload in corner not spotted by officials too.
Myself & brother said numerous times “you can’t make this up”.
As previous posters have said the team are showing spirit by getting physically involved but this is decimating the squad. Many more now unavailable:
Sam & Josh head knocks were freak collisions
Williams was result of putting himself about 110% (he played well)
Will Spencer hurt is shoulder early on & was in clear pain
Mc Connachie knee was twisted under the tackler & looks bad news for ligaments.
Jonker hobbled off at the end so the excellent Cordwell had to come back on after only a few minutes rest!! Or did he come on for Williams?????
Redpath was hobbling from half time but hopefully just a dead leg.
Max Clarke - missed him going off
At the end it was like my old 3rd team with everybody playing out of position. I think game finished with this team, although please correct me as we were losing track in front of TV:
Verden
Du Toit
Stuart
Ewels
Mc Nally
Doughty
Cordwell
Ellis
Simpson
Bailey
Hamer Webb
Ojomoh
Butt
Ben Spencer
Atkins
Not sure a squad can be raised for upcoming games to be safe.
Some positives!!!!!!
Ref did well
We didn’t give up
Cordwell stuck at it & scrum wasn’t pinged off the park
OB confidence unaffected
Crowd noise could clearly be heard
Even Dallaglio on commentary mentioned how he had never witnessed such support for a team who were being totally outplayed. He then reverted to the usual 79 minutes and 50 seconds plus extra time, of lambasting every single thing about Bath rugby. Would love to know just what it is that has got under his skin about Bath.
Quote:nigewing
At the end it was like my old 3rd team with everybody playing out of position. I think game finished with this team, although please correct me as we were losing track in front of TV:
Verden
Du Toit
Stuart
Ewels
Mc Nally
Doughty
Cordwell
Ellis
Simpson
Bailey
Hamer Webb
Ojomoh
Butt
Ben Spencer
Atkins
Still, not the worst side on the planet including some internationals & others with considerable promise, admittedly a few out of position but it’s not quite true to say we were playing the Irish national side. Furthermore, we’ve seen teams come back & win games with 13 men on the field. Just putting it into perspective!
What exactly is the full injury report. 19 were out before the game so who are they? Let's start with those we know have injuries.
Obano, Boyce, Schoeman
Rae
Reid, Faletau, Coetzee, Staddon
Cipriani, Schoeman
Cokansigna, Watson, Muir
De Glanville
I make that 14 players. So possibly 5 COVID cases?
Dunn, De Carpentier, Fox, Green, Merigan
Prydie tests positive on game day. Richards, Spandler, Stewart and Carr-Smith are away with the England u20s. Bringing the total of unavailable players to 24.
Senior players whose fitness is unknown:
Morozov, Roko, JJ and Ventor (any of these could be in the gussed COVID 5.)
Against Leinster we lose Bayliss, Underhill, Jonker and McC to definite injury. Will Spencer looked to injure his arm so is doubtful. Clark possibly hurt himself as well.
Ewels, Stuart and Bailey will go to England camp. Bayliss if well enough will travel to Scotland with Redpath.
That leads to a grand total of.... 35 players. 5 who could negative and return to consideration.
Ps. Please correct me if I've got any of this wrong if some knowledge of player fitness.
Obano, Boyce, Schoeman
Rae
Reid, Faletau, Coetzee, Staddon
Cipriani, Schoeman
Cokansigna, Watson, Muir
De Glanville
I make that 14 players. So possibly 5 COVID cases?
Dunn, De Carpentier, Fox, Green, Merigan
Prydie tests positive on game day. Richards, Spandler, Stewart and Carr-Smith are away with the England u20s. Bringing the total of unavailable players to 24.
Senior players whose fitness is unknown:
Morozov, Roko, JJ and Ventor (any of these could be in the gussed COVID 5.)
Against Leinster we lose Bayliss, Underhill, Jonker and McC to definite injury. Will Spencer looked to injure his arm so is doubtful. Clark possibly hurt himself as well.
Ewels, Stuart and Bailey will go to England camp. Bayliss if well enough will travel to Scotland with Redpath.
That leads to a grand total of.... 35 players. 5 who could negative and return to consideration.
Ps. Please correct me if I've got any of this wrong if some knowledge of player fitness.
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:B4thB4ck
My recollection is that Spencer hadn't collected the ball so difficult to give a PT as always a chance he might knock on or slow down so much to allow a covering tackle.
At what point does a team say we don't have enough players to fulfill the next match. Is the front row the only decider?
Spencer hadn’t collected the ball because he was physically prevented from doing so which sort of negates your argument. We are getting to he wouldn’t have scored because a meteor might have struck him territory here. GHW’s a little more debatable because it was much further from the line and the cover was there whether they would have slowed up or not tried to tackle is again meteor strike territory.
As to your other point the front row any position is a definite. I’m not aware of others but if you were short of all forwards you couldn’t ask an outside back say to play in the scrum at this level un less they had some previous experience. Even then it would depend on physical suitability e.g. Banahan to back row maybe Atkins probably not
Spencer kicked the ball ahead and needed to collect so whatever happened with the 2 collisions after that does not negate my point, we know how a bobbling ball can make players look silly.
As regards the props, I was wondering if a team could have an international front row but without the support of a proper 4 and 5 behind there would still be a risk of injury to them.
"Would love to know just what it is that has got under his skin about Bath."
I can answer that for you - you're not Wasps. He has very similar views of Exeter who also, by a strange coincidence, are also not Wasps.
I can answer that for you - you're not Wasps. He has very similar views of Exeter who also, by a strange coincidence, are also not Wasps.
Quote:Spencer is already on the floor at that point. It needs to be a few frames earlier with Spencer still at full pelt and O’Brien would be back behind the 22.shipwrecked
Not sure about that CC.
Quote:RawceQuote:Spencer is already on the floor at that point. It needs to be a few frames earlier with Spencer still at full pelt and O’Brien would be back behind the 22.shipwrecked
Not sure about that CC.
It was covering the point about cover Rawce and its pretty hard to get it spot on without about 10 attempts but get the point, the kick was nigh on perfect and would have been an easy touchdown as it would have been nearly stationary or very slow.
When there are more than one thing to consider the ref and TMO tend to focus on only one properly, perhaps because two issues involve time pressures.
Impressed with the forensic analysis and debate over a decision that might have allowed us to only lose by 50 points rather than 57!
Quote:TomReagan
Impressed with the forensic analysis and debate over a decision that might have allowed us to only lose by 50 points rather than 57!
Tom, it's another example of how when your chips are on the floor, further things conspire against you. To start to find the first shoots of confidence you need so luck, or favourable decisions. Bath seem to be struggling to get even the obvious 65-35 decisions go their way at present.
Sure, we were totally outclassed, but that was a given even before the game day disruptions and ending up with 5 front rowers on the pitch.
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:TomReagan
Impressed with the forensic analysis and debate over a decision that might have allowed us to only lose by 50 points rather than 57!
Tom, it's another example of how when your chips are on the floor, further things conspire against you. To start to find the first shoots of confidence you need so luck, or favourable decisions. Bath seem to be struggling to get even the obvious 65-35 decisions go their way at present.
Sure, we were totally outclassed, but that was a given even before the game day disruptions and ending up with 5 front rowers on the pitch.
That is absolutely true notwithstanding all my criticism to date. During this diabolical run we have continuously got the rough end of decisions & I think there were probably a few examples yesterday which led to injuries & resulted in tries, such as one blatant forward pass, as well as the dreadful foul on Spencer. We were totally outclassed but there were aspects of Leinster’s play which didn’t impress me.
Fair enough. I enjoyed watching them, both defensively and, of course, in attack. Some very sociable fans too, albeit hard not to be supporting a team like that. I fully accept what you say about decisions. My football team won on Friday because of 2 favourable VAR decisions that we wouldn't have got against a big side. Luckily we were playing someone as bad and insignificant as us (Watford)! I was genuine in enjoying the scrutiny given over to one decision in a game where we possibly could have conceded a penalty try ourselves and lost by 57 points. Our only win this season thus far came thanks to playing against 14 when some felt a red card was a bit harsh. Yes things go against you when you're struggling, but that's a pretty minor factor in our struggles this season and, incidentally, I thought the ref was excellent (And I liked his humorous response to being hit, given in his 2nd language too!).
On the bright side, we've qualified for the next stage of the Challenge Cup 😉
Hard luck on yesterday’s outcome. For whatever reason, whether it is simple bad luck or poor tackle technique, your team have been ravaged by injuries. Understandably confidence is low and your players, frankly do not look that well coached, certainly on the defense front. That said, they never gave up and played for the whole 80 minutes and the support they got from Bath fans was fantastic and unwavering throughout the game despite the unraveling scoreline. I’m not sure that our games against Montpellier and Bath have left us in a good place before meeting Connacht, a very well coached team, who have administered several painful spankings to us over the years. Having rewatched the game today I thought that Henshaw’s scoring pass for one of O’Brien’s tries looked forward although the TV might have exaggerated the effects of parallax error. I also thought ( and know that many posters here won’t agree with me) that the YC for Max Deegan was harsh.
Any rather than many I suspect Johnb2 but there you go! Otherwise, thanks, and probably more enjoyable for you to watch a game that's actually competitive. Don't think you've had one since you played Ulster!
Probably not Tom - Ulster were good value for their win at the RDS that evening. I think that our 7-6 away victory against the Dragons early in the season was the other match in which we really underperformed. If we do manage to finesse our way past Connacht (and that won’t be easy) we’ll have the Tigers to consider and that certainly won’t be easy! Who knows what injuries the 6 N will bring to all the national squads and what effect they may have on the knock out stages of the RCC?
Whilst we are moaning about decisions going against us I will take the opportunity to moan again about the Bristol away game.
Genuinely feel being on the wrong end of a raft of important decisions influenced the result and robbed us of any early season momentum.
Whether things would have gone any differently subsequently I have no idea but a win then wouldn't have done any harm!
Now we are reduced to quibbling over decisions in a 50+ point defeat (which I agree is relevant in terms of when it's going horribly wrong everything goes wrong)
Genuinely feel being on the wrong end of a raft of important decisions influenced the result and robbed us of any early season momentum.
Whether things would have gone any differently subsequently I have no idea but a win then wouldn't have done any harm!
Now we are reduced to quibbling over decisions in a 50+ point defeat (which I agree is relevant in terms of when it's going horribly wrong everything goes wrong)
Leinster were so clinical, GHW goes off and they basically just send it up that side for 10 mins with plenty of reward. It's hard not to feel that (like vs Worcester) Bath wouldn't have been trucking it up the middle for 9 mins 30 secs of the yellow.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
It is a heartbreaking state of affairs but we were seen by Leinster and I would expect La Rochelle as the Italian teams of 10 years ago (guaranteed 5 points and rack up points) - I never thought as a Bath supporter we would sink to these depths but we have.
I am angry that our famous great club has been allowed to sink to this level and the people responsible need to hang their heads in shame, they know who they are.
What I am still extremely proud of is our fan base - the crowd on Saturday was amazing you just would never have known how poor our team is! The passions and discussion we have on this site just re-iterates the passion and desire we all have for the club to rebuilt - hopefully now with suggestions that we have the right calibre of people coming in or already in we may just have a chance, but it will take time given the apoplectic disaster of the last 2-3 years - but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
I am angry that our famous great club has been allowed to sink to this level and the people responsible need to hang their heads in shame, they know who they are.
What I am still extremely proud of is our fan base - the crowd on Saturday was amazing you just would never have known how poor our team is! The passions and discussion we have on this site just re-iterates the passion and desire we all have for the club to rebuilt - hopefully now with suggestions that we have the right calibre of people coming in or already in we may just have a chance, but it will take time given the apoplectic disaster of the last 2-3 years - but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
I applaud your confidence Ali but even the supreme optimist can't get us to being a rugby powerhouse again. A regular top 4 in domestic league and occasional semi in the Euro big cup is about as high as I can get given how far the top teams have moved away
Quote:Ali1969
It is a heartbreaking state of affairs but we were seen by Leinster and I would expect La Rochelle as the Italian teams of 10 years ago (guaranteed 5 points and rack up points) - I never thought as a Bath supporter we would sink to these depths but we have.
I am angry that our famous great club has been allowed to sink to this level and the people responsible need to hang their heads in shame, they know who they are.
What I am still extremely proud of is our fan base - the crowd on Saturday was amazing you just would never have known how poor our team is! The passions and discussion we have on this site just re-iterates the passion and desire we all have for the club to rebuilt - hopefully now with suggestions that we have the right calibre of people coming in or already in we may just have a chance, but it will take time given the apoplectic disaster of the last 2-3 years - but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
I agree but I don’t see how the new coaching team will benefit from the presence of Hatley & Hooper. The situation is so dire we need a complete re-set. I just hope Hatley keeps his head down & tries to focus on getting the forward pack back in shape & Hooper is far away from top level rugby matters.
As for expecting any turnaround around this season under this leadership I believe it to be very unlikely.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:01:25:00:02:28 by Bath Hammer.
Quote:Just curious, why should these people who know who they are hang their heads in shame?! It makes it sound like there are 5th Columnists within the camp undermining everything. Presumably you're referring to the DOR and coaches? They've been promoted too soon and right now are out of their depth, so must will lose their jobs at the end of the season. Should people in positions where they're not up to it feel ashamed? I'm sure they've twigged it's desperate and don't feel great about things right now. I don't imagine Hooper, Hatley et al went home on Sat pm with smiles on their faces telling themselves they were doing a great job. If you think they (Or whoever else you 'blame') should be ashamed enough to resign now, perhaps they feel what they're contributing offers something that's preferable to no one being there. Perhaps it's pride and a desire to improve. Perhaps, like others in jobs they're ill-equipped for, it's to pay the mortgage. Just trying to offer a perspective where I've put aside the emotive frustrations that I share with you!Ali1969
It is a heartbreaking state of affairs but we were seen by Leinster and I would expect La Rochelle as the Italian teams of 10 years ago (guaranteed 5 points and rack up points) - I never thought as a Bath supporter we would sink to these depths but we have.
I am angry that our famous great club has been allowed to sink to this level and the people responsible need to hang their heads in shame, they know who they are.
There is a problem with a total wipe-out of existing leadership in any organisational restructure. It can create a deep worry and fear right across the board if everything is thrown out
Whatever we, as fans will think about Hatley and Hooper they will have strong, positive relationships with most, possibly all players. So keeping them in roles that are better defined to suit their abilities and personalities will give an important message that not everything is wrong
For example, for what we know Hatley is a proven quality forwards coach so it makes sense to ask him to focus on that area of the game. He seems happy to accept it but if, over time he retains the ambition for Head Coach then he can find his own pathway. Fine
For me, it is the right balance between new team coming in and retaining some of the old team though I would have preferred to have kept Williams. I really liked what he was talking about and he has roots in the club aligned with significant experience in other top clubs in other countries. But I can understand why JvG would want different input in that area
Whatever we, as fans will think about Hatley and Hooper they will have strong, positive relationships with most, possibly all players. So keeping them in roles that are better defined to suit their abilities and personalities will give an important message that not everything is wrong
For example, for what we know Hatley is a proven quality forwards coach so it makes sense to ask him to focus on that area of the game. He seems happy to accept it but if, over time he retains the ambition for Head Coach then he can find his own pathway. Fine
For me, it is the right balance between new team coming in and retaining some of the old team though I would have preferred to have kept Williams. I really liked what he was talking about and he has roots in the club aligned with significant experience in other top clubs in other countries. But I can understand why JvG would want different input in that area
Re. Dallaglio and his dislike of anything Bath, a good few comments earlier.
In the days of early 2000's, when Wasps were, it seemed, after Tigers, our main enemy, he always got an appalling foul mouthed and noisy greeting when he ran out or went near the ball. We loved having him as the big bad guy - and some of the memories he must have of the Rec arn't nice ones. Have a great photo of him being dumped on his bum amid loud cheers from those far off happy days. Hope that helps understand his attitude.
In the days of early 2000's, when Wasps were, it seemed, after Tigers, our main enemy, he always got an appalling foul mouthed and noisy greeting when he ran out or went near the ball. We loved having him as the big bad guy - and some of the memories he must have of the Rec arn't nice ones. Have a great photo of him being dumped on his bum amid loud cheers from those far off happy days. Hope that helps understand his attitude.
Quote:annie blackthorn
Re. Dallaglio and his dislike of anything Bath, a good few comments earlier.
In the days of early 2000's, when Wasps were, it seemed, after Tigers, our main enemy, he always got an appalling foul mouthed and noisy greeting when he ran out or went near the ball. We loved having him as the big bad guy - and some of the memories he must have of the Rec arn't nice ones. Have a great photo of him being dumped on his bum amid loud cheers from those far off happy days. Hope that helps understand his attitude.
Yes you are right, however he is paid to be a pundit now and has been for a long time so should try a bit harder. I cheered him on as an England player so try to remember him in that role.
I also remember Dallaglio getting plenty of 'advice' from the crowd because he was constantly moaning and groaning to the ref (rather like Dean Ryan). However, as the previous poster said, he is now paid to be a pundit and should try to be objective. I don't hear Brian O'Driscoll vilifying Munster or Connact, and although Austin Healey can be annoying, it is not because he is always singing the praises of Leicester, he just happens to be annoying by nature hehe. I think a large dose of obectivity is needed by Mr. Dallaglio or at the least, stop bringing him to the Rec!
Quote:Ali1969
but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
No chance of that happening whilst McDonald and Hooper remain involved with the playing side of the club.
We will never be competitive in the champion cup again, but that is more to do with the lack of salary cap in France/Ireland than how poor a team Bath are.
I genuinely don't get the 'Dallaglio hates Bath' vibe. And, as for the Rec crowd giving him the treatment ... pretty sure he would have got that everywhere he went once he'd established his reputation for reffing games.
If anyone is looking for 'England great turns out to be an absolute campanology-finalist, look no further than Botham. But Dallaglio, I have no problem with.
If anyone is looking for 'England great turns out to be an absolute campanology-finalist, look no further than Botham. But Dallaglio, I have no problem with.
"campanology-finalist"!! - takes the prize for interpretation of the decade!!
I've been under a lot of pressure from CC about my language Mike - so am having to get a bit more inventive!
Quote:Optimist
I've been under a lot of pressure from CC about my language Mike - so am having to get a bit more inventive!
Only a wordsmith could come up with that Opti, highly impressed.
Cheers SW - seems to have entirely diverted attention from the heresy of okay’ing big Lol.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Ali1969
but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
No chance of that happening whilst McDonald and Hooper remain involved with the playing side of the club.
We will never be competitive in the champion cup again, but that is more to do with the lack of salary cap in France/Ireland than how poor a team Bath are.
OB I was under the impression that the new structure pretty much does remove both from the playing side - I understand ED G will now oversee contracts/signings along with JVG.
I totally understand the Salary Cap issue - as has been discussed extensively this is a huge issue but only on the European stage.
Quote:Ali1969
I totally understand the Salary Cap issue - as has been discussed extensively this is a huge issue but only on the European stage.
Leinster don't even pay the salaries of about half a dozen of their stars do they? IRFU central contracts and placed there. Then they really just play internationals and Euro games. Even if the Prem salary cap was back up to £8m we couldn't compete with that as our highest paid get flogged to death to make the most of the time they are at clubs. The French teams just seem to play 2 sides and cherry pick the games where they put out the A team.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Ali1969Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Ali1969
but I am confident we will build and become a powerhouse once again.
No chance of that happening whilst McDonald and Hooper remain involved with the playing side of the club.
We will never be competitive in the champion cup again, but that is more to do with the lack of salary cap in France/Ireland than how poor a team Bath are.
OB I was under the impression that the new structure pretty much does remove both from the playing side - I understand ED G will now oversee contracts/signings along with JVG.
I totally understand the Salary Cap issue - as has been discussed extensively this is a huge issue but only on the European stage.
McDonald is hosting the members event tonight so is still far too close to the playing side of the club. As a result I didn't sign up as I have no interest in hearing him drone on throughout the event.
Quote:OutsideBath
McDonald is hosting the members event tonight so is still far too close to the playing side of the club. As a result I didn't sign up as I have no interest in hearing him drone on throughout the event.
Huge mistake that by Club .... supporters want to hear from players and coaches/DoR - at a pinch S&C. Not accountants.
Can a mod assist? I saw some criticism that Baths selection has been muddled and lacked consistency so I made a spreadsheet of the starting XVs. Can you share images here, if you can, how?
Look at a site like imgur where you can host your image. You can't really do it via sportnetwork.
Quote:hasta
Look at a site like imgur where you can host your image. You can't really do it via sportnetwork.
Thanks for the tip.
Baths starting XV so far... Hopefully you can all open it...
[imgur.com]
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Bath News 24/7
More Bath headlines
- LEARNINGS FOR NEXT SEASON. SEASON REVIEW CONTINUED.
- World Rugby Junior World Championship 2026 Preview
- FAILURE, FRUSTRATION OR FLATLINE? 2026 SEASON REVIEW
- "IT'S IN OUR HANDS”...BATH V EXETER.
- NOW OR NEVER: BATH V LEICESTER
- BOUNCEBACKABILITY: EXETER CHIEFS V BATH RUGBY
- LE HANDICAP? BORDEAUX v BATH ECC SEMI FINAL
- “MAY YOUR CHOICES REFLECT YOUR HOPES NOT YOUR FEARS”.
- EYES BACK ON THE OTHER PRIZE! BATH v HARLEQUINS
Bath latest threads
- O/T Postcards from the Past No 4 – Naples 2010
- Injury latest on forgotten Bath Rugby wrecking ball Jaco Coetzee
- OT / Prostate
- OT - Fox wins the Open at Birkdale
- O/T Postcards from the Past No 3 Théoule-sur-Mer – May 2017
- OT/ Site advertising
- Will Roue Signed ahead of the 2026/27 season
- Bath Rugby's confirmed 2026/27 incoming signings and outgoings
- 2026/27 PREM Rugby Cup fixtures confirmed
- O/T Postcards from the Past No2 Cordoba 2015