Bath
Bath’s got talent, but have we got the (Stone) X factor?
By Devonport Boy
October 18 2023
“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times”. Charles Dickens had the French Revolution in mind when he penned the opening line to A Tale of Two Cities and there’s no doubt that something of a quiet revolution has taken place at Bath Rugby since Johann van Graan arrived at Farleigh in July 2022.
The away match at Saracens has often been one where, as supporters, we’ve tended to think in terms of damage limitation and settling for a losing bonus point as something of a result. But maybe it might be different this time. Bath are going into this game on the back of six consecutive wins in the Premiership whilst Saracens have lost their last two (admittedly with weakened sides), shipping a lot of points in the process.
So, is it the best of times or the worst of times to visit the Stonex? Part of the answer to that may be in France where the England team, with about seven key Saracens players at its core, has been involved in something of a revolution of its own. Yes, I know that we’re still missing Ollie Lawrence, Will Stewart and now Sam Underhill, but whisper it quietly, it just might be that we now have the depth of talent in the squad to cope with that better than many of our rivals. On the other hand, Saracens will be hugely motivated to put in a performance on Saturday. If the margin of our win on the 6th of May wasn’t enough, they will surely want to come back strongly from last week’s mauling at Sandy Park at the hands of Exeter.
We had fun in some unexpected autumn sunshine at the Rec on Saturday and it was great to see the boys playing with verve and attacking intent. And there was the “Finn factor”! Nevertheless, despite the six tries I’m pretty sure that JvG and his team will be focusing on the areas to improve on. Let’s be fair, Newcastle played pretty well and I think they will surprise a number of teams this season. That said, there were defensive lapses that will need addressing this week and we certainly can’t give a Saracens team that number of penalty opportunities in kickable positions even with Owen Farrell gainfully occupied elsewhere!
I’m going to take a stab at the team that we might see at the Stonex. I think JvG will go with the strongest squad that he can select, respecting our opponents but also wanting to keep up the momentum and bank as many points as possible before the Premiership teams come back to full strength. We may have picked up some injuries against the Falcons. I’ve assumed that Max Ojomoh will be undergoing return from failed HIA protocols but hope Will Muir and Beno Obano will be fit. I also think Sarries will kick for attacking field position, so that basis I think it will be something like:
15 Tom de Glanville
14 Joe Cokanasiga
13 Will Butt
12 Cam Redpath
11 Will Muir
10 Finn Russell
9 Ben Spencer (C)
8 Alfie Barbeary
7 Chris Cloete
6 Ted Hill
5 Quinn Roux
4 Charlie Ewels
3 Thomas du Toit
2 Tom Dunn
1 Beno Obano
16 Annett, 17 Coetzee, 18 Schoeman, 19 Lee–Warner, 20 Reid, 21 Schreuder, 22 Bailey, 23 Gallagher
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StumbleuponBath’s got talent, but have we got the (Stone) X factor?
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 18/10/2023 11:40
18/10/2023 11:40
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:25:12:41:07 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:25:12:41:07 by CoochieCoo.
Very good read and I love the title.............and using one of the most famous opening lines in literature.
On the Gallagher Highlights on Sunday the new introducer said prophetically, "I wouldn't want to be playing Saracens next week!"
To be fair I watched the Exeter v Saracens game and if everything that could go right went right for Exeter and everything went wrong for Saracens. A friend of mine who is an Exeter season ticket holder was hoping , prior to the match, to not lose by too much. So it was a big surprise for them as well!
I think the team is about right and of course I believe the Racing pitch is the same as the Stonex so he will at least be familiar with the surface
On the Gallagher Highlights on Sunday the new introducer said prophetically, "I wouldn't want to be playing Saracens next week!"
To be fair I watched the Exeter v Saracens game and if everything that could go right went right for Exeter and everything went wrong for Saracens. A friend of mine who is an Exeter season ticket holder was hoping , prior to the match, to not lose by too much. So it was a big surprise for them as well!
I think the team is about right and of course I believe the Racing pitch is the same as the Stonex so he will at least be familiar with the surface
Nice one DB.
I think we will need to be sharper (and more clinical) at the breakdown against Sarries than we were last week, otherwise we could get frustrated quickly.
We also need to keep the scoreboard ticking over -if necessary with penalties - as they will counter attack in a heartbeat.
Winnble though, so we should travel with hope.
PG
I think we will need to be sharper (and more clinical) at the breakdown against Sarries than we were last week, otherwise we could get frustrated quickly.
We also need to keep the scoreboard ticking over -if necessary with penalties - as they will counter attack in a heartbeat.
Winnble though, so we should travel with hope.
PG
Just wondering if Gallagher might start at 15 against an ex club instead of TdG, he also is the guy who kick penalties into the corner with accuracy. It wouldn't surprise me if JvG rotated the back row a bit either. Completely agree that Sarries won't be as inept as they were against Exeter.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
If we're playing a midfield of Mojo/Cam I would pick Gallagher at 15, if Butt comes into the centre I would pick TdG.
Good write up and really no idea if it's a good time to play them.
They will be missing loads of players but will be furious- on balance I think we need to back our largely first team to beat their largely second team.
As you say question marks over beno. Think muir was just cramp? I also assume mojo will prob be out.
Didn't hill leave on crutches? Upper leg injury? If out I would be tempted to start flw or richards at 6 as a largely like for like change.
Assume coetzee should read jonker at 17? Loving being pedantic today.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:18:12:26:21 by charlieboa.
They will be missing loads of players but will be furious- on balance I think we need to back our largely first team to beat their largely second team.
As you say question marks over beno. Think muir was just cramp? I also assume mojo will prob be out.
Didn't hill leave on crutches? Upper leg injury? If out I would be tempted to start flw or richards at 6 as a largely like for like change.
Assume coetzee should read jonker at 17? Loving being pedantic today.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:18:12:26:21 by charlieboa.
Unless it's a rotation policy, I really can't see TdG getting past Gallagher any time soon. Although he coughed up a couple of those early penalties, he seems to me to be absolutely integral to the way we play. And the way he was barking instructions from the back-field added to the feeling that he's a bit of a leader in the backs.
Safe travels for those who come down.
That looks like a very good Bath team to me. Hoping for a reaction from Sarries after last week and that the game is at least competitive.
That looks like a very good Bath team to me. Hoping for a reaction from Sarries after last week and that the game is at least competitive.
Quote:Optimist
Unless it's a rotation policy, I really can't see TdG getting past Gallagher any time soon. Although he coughed up a couple of those early penalties, he seems to me to be absolutely integral to the way we play. And the way he was barking instructions from the back-field added to the feeling that he's a bit of a leader in the backs.
Jvg a big fan- mentions him in the podcast as being a leader having come from a winning environment at sarries.
Agree with everything you say.... but still prefer watching tdg who I think has a higher ceiling in terms of a potential international but needs to get in bath team first!
Interesting that jvg sees him as an option on the wing- imagine he could do a good job there.
I hope last week's Saracens show up (performance-wise that is, not the same players looking to make amends).
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Looks like Beno and Ted Hill have been ruled out for Saturday. Ted Hill’s upper leg injury sounds worrying going by John Evely’s comments in Somerset Live.
I’d like to see FLW or Richards at 6 to replace Hill. Think the extra heft will be useful to start with and increases the line out options. Tough on Reid but think this gives us a better balance
Also don’t think Coetzee will make the 23 this week…
Also don’t think Coetzee will make the 23 this week…
Yep, can’t disagree with that. And you’re right about Coetzee. As Charlieboa suggested earlier that was a mistake in my initial draft. Yet another “senior moment…”🤣
Quote:Optimist
Unless it's a rotation policy, I really can't see TdG getting past Gallagher any time soon. Although he coughed up a couple of those early penalties, he seems to me to be absolutely integral to the way we play. And the way he was barking instructions from the back-field added to the feeling that he's a bit of a leader in the backs.
Aside from some kicks to the corner I don’t think Gallagher had a good game really. Good recognition for the kick to Joe but it was a poor kick.
JVG’s stance prior to the game was that TDG had the 15 spot and if his concussion limited him then Gallagher would come in. Agree re Richards think we will see him in the 23 maybe starting at 6.
Hill out for months 🥲 really gutting for him was incredible, big shoes to fill for Reid and Richards.
Very interesting team overall no Muir but apart from that can’t complain team there should do a job
Very interesting team overall no Muir but apart from that can’t complain team there should do a job
Seems a big vote of confidence in Griffin. Unless there’s unavailability we don’t know about keeping du Toit at tighthead and bringing Cordwell in to cover loosehead would have seemed the more likely set up without Obano
Quote:theredseat
Seems a big vote of confidence in Griffin. Unless there’s unavailability we don’t know about keeping du Toit at tighthead and bringing Cordwell in to cover loosehead would have seemed the more likely set up without Obano
Possibly the fact that Jonker more likely to play 70 than Schoeman ? Remember Jonker doing that before. But it could purely be Griffin is seen as the stronger scrummager.
Bath squad slightly weaker than I imagined and sarries squad slightly stronger than I envisaged.
Should be a close game I imagine.
Wonder if cordwell is injured or not.
Similar with richards and flw as expected one of them to be in squad, if not both.
Gutting about hill , esp with flw leaving next month but exciting opp for likes of richards, coetzee and staddon to get more games.
Interesting that it's 2 squads and both with 5:3 bench split this season
Should be a close game I imagine.
Wonder if cordwell is injured or not.
Similar with richards and flw as expected one of them to be in squad, if not both.
Gutting about hill , esp with flw leaving next month but exciting opp for likes of richards, coetzee and staddon to get more games.
Interesting that it's 2 squads and both with 5:3 bench split this season
Butt at 12, Redpath at 13. They swap but interesting.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:20:13:07:47 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:20:13:07:47 by shipwrecked.
Is it just me but I have no post of team or Hills injury. I have HK890 post at 11.50 on the 19th and then another from him at 12.05 today with nothing in between. The Offie isn't showing the info either. Is it my problem or are others in a similar position?
Bath Rugby team news
Bath Rugby: 1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Johannes Jonker, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Josh McNally, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Max Ojomoh - [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Bath Rugby: 1 Juan Schoeman, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Johannes Jonker, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 12 Will Butt, 13 Cameron Redpath, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Thomas du Toit, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Josh McNally, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Max Ojomoh - [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Quote:hemington
Is it just me but I have no post of team or Hills injury. I have HK890 post at 11.50 on the 19th and then another from him at 12.05 today with nothing in between. The Offie isn't showing the info either. Is it my problem or are others in a similar position?
[www.somersetlive.co.uk] - Injuries 20/10
Thanks Shipwrecked for the team and I see it on the Offy now. Panic over!
I think that the Bath bench looks stronger but I think that our tight 5 may struggle. Back row battle will be immense - 6 brilliant players there.
Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Mako Vunipola (c)
2 James Hadfield
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Tom West
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Toby Knight
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Olly Hartley
23 Alex Lewington
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:
1 Mako Vunipola (c)
2 James Hadfield
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Callum Hunter-Hill
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Sean Maitland
15 Alex Goode
Replacements:
16 Samson Adejimi
17 Tom West
18 Alec Clarey
19 Ollie Stonham
20 Toby Knight
21 Gareth Simpson
22 Olly Hartley
23 Alex Lewington
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Strong Saracen's side given the missing England contingent.
Hopefully our forwards front up a bit better than last weekend. Looking forward to watching Barbeary vs Willis.
Hopefully our forwards front up a bit better than last weekend. Looking forward to watching Barbeary vs Willis.
Agree stronger Sarries team to last week and I am sure they will be desperate to rectify the performance they put in at Chiefs.
Like the look of our 23 - take it JVG is looking for a strong finish and looking at both benches potentially that is where we may have a slight edge.
Hopefully the weather doesn't become a factor nor the official Hamish Smales - he has been involved in some controversy in the past.
Fingers crossed for a win and please no injuries on that plastic pitch especially given the players we have with previous knee issues.
Like the look of our 23 - take it JVG is looking for a strong finish and looking at both benches potentially that is where we may have a slight edge.
Hopefully the weather doesn't become a factor nor the official Hamish Smales - he has been involved in some controversy in the past.
Fingers crossed for a win and please no injuries on that plastic pitch especially given the players we have with previous knee issues.
Quote:HK890Quote:theredseat
Seems a big vote of confidence in Griffin. Unless there’s unavailability we don’t know about keeping du Toit at tighthead and bringing Cordwell in to cover loosehead would have seemed the more likely set up without Obano
Possibly the fact that Jonker more likely to play 70 than Schoeman ? Remember Jonker doing that before. But it could purely be Griffin is seen as the stronger scrummager.
Could be. Not sure what it is but a bit curious. From what I’ve see Cordwell is very solid in the scrum but who knows
I like griffin but wondered based on prem Cup selection if he had slipped down to 5th choice behind verden.
Had a bit of a rough ride against pirates I think and verden did OK when he came on and kept his place?
Assuming verden is available then I guess they rate griffin highly
Had a bit of a rough ride against pirates I think and verden did OK when he came on and kept his place?
Assuming verden is available then I guess they rate griffin highly
Decent Bath side but Ted and Beno will be missed. Hoping our loosies can dominate the breakdown.
Interesting to see JvG reverting to a 5/3 bench.
Interesting to see JvG reverting to a 5/3 bench.
Quote:charlieboa
Gutting about hill , esp with flw leaving next month but exciting opp for likes of richards, coetzee and staddon to get more games.
Interestingly Richards and Staddon have both spent a week with England - along with Will Parry and Gabe Goss.
Quote:byQuote:charlieboa
Gutting about hill , esp with flw leaving next month but exciting opp for likes of richards, coetzee and staddon to get more games.
Interestingly Richards and Staddon have both spent a week with England - along with Will Parry and Gabe Goss.
Massive contingency of Bath players have
Bennett
Green
Khalik-Kareem
Goss
Staddon
Richards
Goss
Parry
Quote:Woodpecker
Very very interested to see how Spencer and Russell go.
Yes - likewise. In his Bath career to date Spencer has had to take such a disproportionate amount of playmaking decisions. Russell will more than share that burden and you have to think Spencer will benefit hugely from that - and consequently the whole team.
As others, really disappointed about Ted. We have excellent options but he's just about the first name on the sheet for me and it sounds like it'll be a while before we get to see him, Underhill and Barbeary run out together.
Finn Russell was clearly in control in the huddle last week and it very much looked like Ben Spencer was his deputy/partner and completely on board.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:HK890Quote:byQuote:charlieboa
Gutting about hill , esp with flw leaving next month but exciting opp for likes of richards, coetzee and staddon to get more games.
Interestingly Richards and Staddon have both spent a week with England - along with Will Parry and Gabe Goss.
Massive contingency of Bath players have
Bennett
Green
Khalik-Kareem
Goss
Staddon
Richards
Goss
Parry
Also George timmins I think?
Has it largely been bath helping them out? If so I wonder how that came about?
Hats off to whoever made it happen- getting a taste of an England World Cup experience I am sure will be really inspiring for them and benchmark how much they need to improve to get there one day as part of the squad (appreciate this isn't a stellar england squad but there are several players who have achieved great things in there)
With 8 changes made this will be a really good test of our squad.
I felt we are one prop light in the squad but hopefully schoeman and griffin step up to prove me wrong.
Rest of that squad looks pretty strong to me but now sarries have players filtering back it looks a tight contest.
One bookie I looked at had sarries by 2 points which feels about right.
Fingers crossed hill is back before the 6 nations- I find it baffling he isn't near the England squad but assume lawes will knock it on the head after the rwc.
I felt we are one prop light in the squad but hopefully schoeman and griffin step up to prove me wrong.
Rest of that squad looks pretty strong to me but now sarries have players filtering back it looks a tight contest.
One bookie I looked at had sarries by 2 points which feels about right.
Fingers crossed hill is back before the 6 nations- I find it baffling he isn't near the England squad but assume lawes will knock it on the head after the rwc.
Quote:charlieboa
Fingers crossed hill is back before the 6 nations- I find it baffling he isn't near the England squad but assume lawes will knock it on the head after the rwc.
I don't find it baffling for the reason you mention, Lawes has the position nailed down and there are other "utility" backrowers ahead of him BUT I very much hope that both he has a speedy recovery and, as you say, he makes his way into the EPS for the 6 Nations.
We're talking about potentially (hopefully) changing the way England play. The Mobility and workrate of Earls in the backrow would be even better with Hill adding to both at 6 and also offering some heft and lineout work.
Agree OM though could argue lawes is past his best- I like him alot and he has gone well so far in rwc. Think it was wise to go with his experience.
ted is pretty versatile- obviously primarily v much a 6 but has played 8 and lock well.
I quite like the idea of hill/curry/barbeary in terms of balance but on form earls deserves a place ahead of all of them and again I have always been a fan of earls- people say he is a bit small but he is ridiculously athletic and powerful. V interested to see how Tom willis goes- shrewd move for both parties and can defo see him being involved in the 6 nations- v tidy player.
ted is pretty versatile- obviously primarily v much a 6 but has played 8 and lock well.
I quite like the idea of hill/curry/barbeary in terms of balance but on form earls deserves a place ahead of all of them and again I have always been a fan of earls- people say he is a bit small but he is ridiculously athletic and powerful. V interested to see how Tom willis goes- shrewd move for both parties and can defo see him being involved in the 6 nations- v tidy player.
Quote:charlieboa
Agree OM though could argue lawes is past his best- I like him alot and he has gone well so far in rwc. Think it was wise to go with his experience.
ted is pretty versatile- obviously primarily v much a 6 but has played 8 and lock well.
I quite like the idea of hill/curry/barbeary in terms of balance but on form earls deserves a place ahead of all of them and again I have always been a fan of earls- people say he is a bit small but he is ridiculously athletic and powerful. V interested to see how Tom willis goes- shrewd move for both parties and can defo see him being involved in the 6 nations- v tidy player.
Earls has just retired but you could say the same about Earl...
I've doubted Lawes repeatedly, particularly at 6, but he proves me wrong pretty much every time. Hill certainly is the future there.
Quote:HIA - failed.OutsideBath
Roux off, serious injury?
No foul play, head on head as he hit the ground from a tackle and a sarrie basically landed on his head, head-first
RAEBURN SHIELD
Bath the better side but have to deal with Sarries tactics better. It's pouring with rain and if we don't deal with the high ball we will give their backrow penalties all day. I can feel the frustration from the players as we get sucked into kick tennis on their terms. Got to stay disciplined. Jonker has Mako on wheels.
TdG has been very good. Butt looks very strong at 12. Forwards really muscling up and hoping the strength of our bench, especially front row, gives us the edge. I’d take a 1 point win as Sarries look a lot better than they were last week but we should still get at least 4 points.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Feels like we've got their scrum on toast, but Smales seems to be just alternating penalties there.
Annett certainly unhappy with him (and bit too forthright in expressing himself).
Can anyone who knows about scrums comment? I'm just a lowly SH, so can't really comment intelligently.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Annett certainly unhappy with him (and bit too forthright in expressing himself).
Can anyone who knows about scrums comment? I'm just a lowly SH, so can't really comment intelligently.
RAEBURN SHIELD
56 min
There's the TBP for Bath.
Match still in the balance, but doesn't feel like it should be (NB, possible bias)
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
There's the TBP for Bath.
Match still in the balance, but doesn't feel like it should be (NB, possible bias)
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:all bar one have been within 5m-ish of the touchlineJK7
Are these tough conversions or does Finn not have his shooting boots on?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:21:16:31:10 by Quel Carreleur.
Sounds like conditions were terrible and we butchered a few opportunities with handling errors but a 5 pointer at Sarries is a big step forward. Top of the League!
When did we last win away at Salaries?
Great to get the try BP again, and deny Salaries anything!
Great to get the try BP again, and deny Salaries anything!
That's a good result, looking at that set of Sarries back's that's a very decent line up. Look a bit washed out up front. Line out went very wonky at the end mind!
That might put us top!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:21:17:09:14 by shipwrecked.
That might put us top!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:21:17:09:14 by shipwrecked.
Yessss! Given the expected backlash, losing Obano/Hill, getting on the wrong side of the ref and the terrible weather that could easily have gone the other way. Is that 7 prem BP wins in a row?
Very good win, pleased with the resilience after conceding an early try. Shame the weather changed for the worse, as the attacking game was starting to look good.
No idea how well we played, but a win at Sarries has to be celebrated. Was a bit concerned about the possible backlash from Sarries after last week.
It wasn't without a few errors but considering how the weather affected the second half I was pleased with that performance. You can feel the players confidence is much improved, some excellent individual performances but most aspects of the game looking promising. Finn's back hand pass for De Glanville's try, divine. Injuries already eating into the squad a negative although Miles Reid's player of the match performance welcome in light of Hill's absence.
Very impressive. Super professional performance, expertly managed by Spencer, and the forwards look like a well organised, powerful unit. Backs more cohesive than in years. Like the shapes they’re running- and the cross kick from Spencer to McCon shows good invention, too.
Ewels, Reid, Barbeary all hugely effective. TdT brought huge power, as did Dunn, and Griffin impressive, too. 1-23 worked mighty hard for each other in horrid conditions. Thought Finn was a bit mixed- some magic, but above all loved seeing him call the shots and pick team mates up off the floor. Looks to be enjoying himself, and he and Spencer look to already be forming a nice partnership.
2 games. 10 points. Top of the league. Who could ask for more? Better line out perhaps? Should of killed this game off earlier? Lots of work ons- but bring on Tigers.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Ewels, Reid, Barbeary all hugely effective. TdT brought huge power, as did Dunn, and Griffin impressive, too. 1-23 worked mighty hard for each other in horrid conditions. Thought Finn was a bit mixed- some magic, but above all loved seeing him call the shots and pick team mates up off the floor. Looks to be enjoying himself, and he and Spencer look to already be forming a nice partnership.
2 games. 10 points. Top of the league. Who could ask for more? Better line out perhaps? Should of killed this game off earlier? Lots of work ons- but bring on Tigers.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:hasta
Yessss! Given the expected backlash, losing Obano/Hill, getting on the wrong side of the ref and the terrible weather that could easily have gone the other way. Is that 7 prem BP wins in a row?
Bath, Briz & Glaws at top of the league!
Quote:Bath, Briz & Glaws at top of the league!
Nah. Bath top. Briz and Glaws leading the chase.
Quote:Mike the TaxiQuote:hasta
Yessss! Given the expected backlash, losing Obano/Hill, getting on the wrong side of the ref and the terrible weather that could easily have gone the other way. Is that 7 prem BP wins in a row?
Bath, Briz & Glaws at top of the league!
To answer the question in the thread, it's a definitely Yes from me and in fact I think that was 4 Yeses!
Whatever the circumstances a 4 to 1 try count away at Sarries is mightily impressive
Whatever the circumstances a 4 to 1 try count away at Sarries is mightily impressive
Super performance, Miles Reid rightly awarded motm, but Cam wasn’t far behind, he was like another loose forward today. And Ewels had the best game that I can remember in ages.
Some hot and cold stuff from Finn, but he was clearly enjoying himself, and his out the back offload for TdGs try was sublime. COYB!
Some hot and cold stuff from Finn, but he was clearly enjoying himself, and his out the back offload for TdGs try was sublime. COYB!
Brilliant result and despite losing Ted and Beno we put in a performance that had errors but in the end we got a perfect result. Dare I say it we have a strength in depth!
Only listened on radio but sounded fairly comfortable and should have been more comfortable.
Sarries of course missing lots but that was a decent 23 they had out and stone x is not somewhere many get any joy.
Encouraging signs end of last season/start of this.
Leic is another good opp as they have more than us at rwc and fingers crossed we have beno back.
Sarries of course missing lots but that was a decent 23 they had out and stone x is not somewhere many get any joy.
Encouraging signs end of last season/start of this.
Leic is another good opp as they have more than us at rwc and fingers crossed we have beno back.
Great day down in London - I cannot ever remember feeling as comfortable as I did today and add to that we were at the home of the champions.
Weather ruined the second half or I honestly think we would have been out of sight and possible 20+ points ahead, that is not being arrogant but I cannot recall such dominance against a really good Sarries side.
Du Toit is one powerful beast and credit to Griffin.
An excellent result and good performance to take forward to next weeks home game against Tigers.
Weather ruined the second half or I honestly think we would have been out of sight and possible 20+ points ahead, that is not being arrogant but I cannot recall such dominance against a really good Sarries side.
Du Toit is one powerful beast and credit to Griffin.
An excellent result and good performance to take forward to next weeks home game against Tigers.
Quote:CoochieCoo
Brilliant result and despite losing Ted and Beno we put in a performance that had errors but in the end we got a perfect result. Dare I say it we have a strength in depth!
I don't bother posting on the Sarries message-board any more. It's controlled by a couple of dominant personalities and they only discuss with each other, no one else can make a point that is worthy of comment. I always enjoy here and a couple of other boards (Leicester, Saints) that you are so inclusive as to others' opinions.
On to the game. I thought you were streets ahead. I always had the impression that If you had needed to go up another gear to get it done then you would have done. Whether or not the England boys being out had an effect we will only know when everyone is back. But you can only beat what's in front of you and you did that rather easily today.
Winning away against Sarries is a rare occurrence whatever side they field but it’s too early to get carried away. They were thrashed by Exeter last week & do have significant absentees. We do have far greater attacking potency, however, as I always felt somewhat underwhelmed when most of our tries were scored by the forward pack. That isn’t the case now & it feels far more satisfying.
Well played Bath. Great to see some real attacking intent and under JVG you now look to have the forward platform to release those backs to even greater effect. I feel you could have easily put another couple of scores on and it would have been a more accurate reflection of the game.
I felt last season things looked to be coming together for Bath and suggested before the season started you'd be top4 this. Still feeling confident about that but far less so that Sarries will be there with you!
Good luck till we visit you for the rematch
I felt last season things looked to be coming together for Bath and suggested before the season started you'd be top4 this. Still feeling confident about that but far less so that Sarries will be there with you!
Good luck till we visit you for the rematch
Great win yesterday. The reaction after Finn’s faux pas in the opening minute confirmed that this team is developing real resilience and self belief. On the Sarries board some are questioning the wisdom of sending high ball after high ball in TdG’s direction. I’d agree with that. Showing my age now, but he increasingly reminds me of Matt Perry who, in his pomp, was arguably one of the best at managing the high ball. And TdG’s got pace to burn. I rate Gallagher too - but for different reasons and young Sam Harris is an impressive talent. That strength in depth is something we haven’t seen for a while.
Our attack is light years ahead of what we had under Hooper. I'm guessing here that a lot of that is down to Blackett and if so then he was the best signing in a very long time
From where I was sat Bath just looked a different team especially in the fist half - Russell might just be an inspiration to this team - his kick charged down and he laughed as Christie ran under the posts. Previously this would even given we were in the 2nd minute been the end of the contest and heads would have gone down - under Russell NO he produced an offload like the one in the 6 Nations between 2 players out the back door - unbelievable skill and to cap it off the pass was so accurate TdG did not have to break stride.
The pack without Obano, Hill, Stuart, Underhill and Bayliss were immense against a very good Sarries pack - Du Toit is just a monster and the ability to swop sides and destroy an opposition scrum from LH or TH is almost as valuable as Russell.
The biggest praise for me goes to the new coaches Lee Blackett, Richard Blaze and Stevie Scott and JVG for bringing them in.
Our attack, Lineout and Maul and Scrum are unrecognisable and almost unstoppable at present and there is so much more to come - I bet Ollie Lawrence cannot wait to get home and outside Russell.
So many positives please let this not be a false dawn, I don’t think so under JvG but there will be some less bright days on this journey.
I am amazed how Sarries supporters on their forum have turned so negative so quickly.
The pack without Obano, Hill, Stuart, Underhill and Bayliss were immense against a very good Sarries pack - Du Toit is just a monster and the ability to swop sides and destroy an opposition scrum from LH or TH is almost as valuable as Russell.
The biggest praise for me goes to the new coaches Lee Blackett, Richard Blaze and Stevie Scott and JVG for bringing them in.
Our attack, Lineout and Maul and Scrum are unrecognisable and almost unstoppable at present and there is so much more to come - I bet Ollie Lawrence cannot wait to get home and outside Russell.
So many positives please let this not be a false dawn, I don’t think so under JvG but there will be some less bright days on this journey.
I am amazed how Sarries supporters on their forum have turned so negative so quickly.
The Finn thing is really interesting. As said above, as an individual, I don’t think he had his best game. Goal kicking off. Charged down. Restart straight out. Line kicks not great. Couple of passes to floor.
But… those elements, we know, he’ll fix in his sleep and it’s his attitude that I really like as it seems to infect those around him. Yes, it’s only game 2, but there is a confidence, a bit of swagger.
Yes, Ali, him chuckling at his stupidity after the charge down. He’s laughing with JPF before a touchline conversation. He’s coming off the field with his arm round Spencer. He’s the first to pick Cloete up when he knocks on. He’s talking to the forwards at every break.
For a few seasons, Spencer has been the one trying to instil an attitude and belief in our talented squad. Hard to do alone- but looks as if Finn, in addition to his world class skills, brings confidence. We’ve lost so many games in recent seasons because of our soft top 2 inches. In TdT, Dunn, Ewels, Reid, Spencer, Finn, we’ve got leaders dotted throughout. Hard but cool headed men. Finn galvanising that group, and the rest of the team, potentially his biggest asset.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
But… those elements, we know, he’ll fix in his sleep and it’s his attitude that I really like as it seems to infect those around him. Yes, it’s only game 2, but there is a confidence, a bit of swagger.
Yes, Ali, him chuckling at his stupidity after the charge down. He’s laughing with JPF before a touchline conversation. He’s coming off the field with his arm round Spencer. He’s the first to pick Cloete up when he knocks on. He’s talking to the forwards at every break.
For a few seasons, Spencer has been the one trying to instil an attitude and belief in our talented squad. Hard to do alone- but looks as if Finn, in addition to his world class skills, brings confidence. We’ve lost so many games in recent seasons because of our soft top 2 inches. In TdT, Dunn, Ewels, Reid, Spencer, Finn, we’ve got leaders dotted throughout. Hard but cool headed men. Finn galvanising that group, and the rest of the team, potentially his biggest asset.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
If you take the charge down out of it, which was and always is in my eyes, a fluke, then the scoreboard is simply a few penalties, which is remarkable. I think Will Butt made Tompkins look ordinary and can't recall him not making the gain line in the first half. He was immense up until our tactics changed due to the weather. And JoCo made him sit down quite handsomely towards the end of the match!
In terms of defence, I can't recall us having to defend our 5m line once. I might be mistaken as I was certainly a few jars in sat on the sofa, but that is surely something to be proud of? They had a few kicks to the corner which we defended well, but in terms of bodies on the line where in previous seasons it was a case of when not if, yesterday felt like if not when! JPF must be over the moon with that, as defence across the park was outstanding. And I think TdG had one of his best defensive games for Bath ever. Simply outstanding
In terms of defence, I can't recall us having to defend our 5m line once. I might be mistaken as I was certainly a few jars in sat on the sofa, but that is surely something to be proud of? They had a few kicks to the corner which we defended well, but in terms of bodies on the line where in previous seasons it was a case of when not if, yesterday felt like if not when! JPF must be over the moon with that, as defence across the park was outstanding. And I think TdG had one of his best defensive games for Bath ever. Simply outstanding
Quote:Ali1969
I am amazed how Sarries supporters on their forum have turned so negative so quickly.
I think it's because we're shocked by the lack of conviction of both players and coaching. That is something that we've not seen for a long time.
Both Chiefs and yourselves played really well and there's no shame in losing to a better side. There is in not looking up for the game and barely firing a shot and that's something I think has thrown supporters as previously both were a given no matter what the side put out looked like.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:22:11:43:00 by OldMarovian.
OM totally understand had a really good day at the Stonex yesterday obviously the result but the kindness and friendly atmosphere shown by Sarries fans.
I personally think Sarries are still the benchmark for all teams in the English modern age Mark McCall is truly IMHO one of the best coaches/DoRs around.
My hazy memories when we used to be good and ruled the English game seems like centuries ago is that you are there to be shot down by every club and every supporter from every club. Two losses with all your absences does not make Sarries a bad team - some good learning for the youngsters and with George, Farrell and Daley back you will definitely be in contention come the end of the season. Christie by the way is one hell of a player- reckon he may force his way into Scotland side come Six Nations I know Gregor really likes what he does on the field.
Good luck and see you at the Rec for the return match.
I personally think Sarries are still the benchmark for all teams in the English modern age Mark McCall is truly IMHO one of the best coaches/DoRs around.
My hazy memories when we used to be good and ruled the English game seems like centuries ago is that you are there to be shot down by every club and every supporter from every club. Two losses with all your absences does not make Sarries a bad team - some good learning for the youngsters and with George, Farrell and Daley back you will definitely be in contention come the end of the season. Christie by the way is one hell of a player- reckon he may force his way into Scotland side come Six Nations I know Gregor really likes what he does on the field.
Good luck and see you at the Rec for the return match.
Cheers Ali. Great to hear you had a nice day at the StoneX.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
Good luck for the rest of the season.
One of the things I've been impressed with in relation to JvG is how he is developing our academy players. Will Butt is an example. A couple of years ago he showed potential when he was loaned out to Coventry. It was noted on here that he had potential and BM strongly advocated him being played at 12 because of his size. At that point I though he was in competition with Venter.
He got first team time on the wing where he scored that amazing try in the corner, he had a few games at 13 but his passing was a bit in question but playing him with Cam and their swapping during matches has seem him slip into the 12 position.
Yesterday he really seemed to fit the role of an inside centre though decent possession makes life easier for all backs I guess.
I'm hoping to see the same development from Ewan Richards and Sam Harris over time.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
He got first team time on the wing where he scored that amazing try in the corner, he had a few games at 13 but his passing was a bit in question but playing him with Cam and their swapping during matches has seem him slip into the 12 position.
Yesterday he really seemed to fit the role of an inside centre though decent possession makes life easier for all backs I guess.
I'm hoping to see the same development from Ewan Richards and Sam Harris over time.
Life long Irish fan here (Now following bath as my dad is a bath fan)
Gotta say I was super impressed with Tom De Glanville yesterday. Comfortable under the high ball and hits the outside really well.
Baths pack looks 100x better than last year, having Alfie Barbeary helps a lot.
Having that world class 9 and 10 though will push Bath onto another level this year.
Looking forward to seeing a back line of
Spencer, Russell, Redpath, Lawrence.
Gotta say I was super impressed with Tom De Glanville yesterday. Comfortable under the high ball and hits the outside really well.
Baths pack looks 100x better than last year, having Alfie Barbeary helps a lot.
Having that world class 9 and 10 though will push Bath onto another level this year.
Looking forward to seeing a back line of
Spencer, Russell, Redpath, Lawrence.
Quote:shipwrecked
decent possession makes life easier for all backs I guess.
This is the really exciting bit if that strong forward pack can allow the backs - that have been shackled for so long - a bit of time and space on front foot ball. Back to 2015 in fact.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I really love that cross kick from Spencer. If you can threaten that from 9 it'll make defences have to adjust, which creates more space for Finn.
I'm very excited about the virtuous circle of what having Finn will do for Spencer's game and vice versa.
I'm very excited about the virtuous circle of what having Finn will do for Spencer's game and vice versa.
Have to agree, the break and the back of the hand offload pass to TdG for the try was dreamy!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:hasta
I really love that cross kick from Spencer. If you can threaten that from 9 it'll make defences have to adjust, which creates more space for Finn.
I'm very excited about the virtuous circle of what having Finn will do for Spencer's game and vice versa.
It was a supreme set of skills from the vision and execution of Spencer to the quality finishing from Mc but presumably someone called the move? If so who was that?
I absolutely think we are going to see the best of Spencer as FR takes the strain
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
I absolutely think we are going to see the best of Spencer as FR takes the strain
Including the kicking duties. Spencer plays at such a high tempo that sometimes I don't see how he can be in the right mindset for goal kicking. Best to channel that energy in other ways, in my view
Spencer has been ridiculously overlooked by England, perhaps that will change. 31 isnt that old for a 9.
True, but lets hope unlike EJ, Borthwick cares about 6N, not just WC.
Also Care is 36 now.
Also Care is 36 now.
Quote:gaz59Quote:hasta
I really love that cross kick from Spencer. If you can threaten that from 9 it'll make defences have to adjust, which creates more space for Finn.
I'm very excited about the virtuous circle of what having Finn will do for Spencer's game and vice versa.
It was a supreme set of skills from the vision and execution of Spencer to the quality finishing from Mc but presumably someone called the move? If so who was that?
Probably Finn, but it still needs to be effectively be a callable option that everyone knows about.
Quote:hastaQuote:gaz59Quote:hasta
I really love that cross kick from Spencer. If you can threaten that from 9 it'll make defences have to adjust, which creates more space for Finn.
I'm very excited about the virtuous circle of what having Finn will do for Spencer's game and vice versa.
It was a supreme set of skills from the vision and execution of Spencer to the quality finishing from Mc but presumably someone called the move? If so who was that?
Probably Finn, but it still needs to be effectively be a callable option that everyone knows about.
Finn has his arm out the play before then BS is looking wide before he gets the ball. RMc is wide and moves in to collect the kick and score. That differs from Joe C who is narrow and runs backward and falls over, (he's done it twice now).
Quote:Woodpecker
Spencer has been ridiculously overlooked by England, perhaps that will change. 31 isnt that old for a 9.
Agree but doubt it will. In International experience (even top rugby, with respect to Bath) he has limited experience so he is not much more a "senior" player than player like JVP and Mitchell with more caps and recent exposure to that level.
It's a real shame as with Youngs and Care likely moving on an ideal team profile would IMO have a player exactly like him. He also possesses both the skillset for how England play currently and also the ability to play a quicker, sniping game for when England look to expand how we play.
I'd be amazed if Quirke isn't in the frame come the 6 Nations and Warr arguably deserves to be given a shot as well. I guess the questions are whether he sticks with either of Youngs/Care and if JVP has had his chance or will be backed to regain form?
Quote:OldMarovian
I'd be amazed if Quirke isn't in the frame come the 6 Nations and Warr arguably deserves to be given a shot as well. I guess the questions are whether he sticks with either of Youngs/Care and if JVP has had his chance or will be backed to regain form?
Warr is currently first choice at Sale isn't he?
Quote:Mike the Taxi
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/bath-rugby-player-ratings-saracens-8849568 - Player Ratings
From my watch of the match I would have had Tom dG as man of the match. He was outstanding
Quote:gaz59Quote:OldMarovian
I'd be amazed if Quirke isn't in the frame come the 6 Nations and Warr arguably deserves to be given a shot as well. I guess the questions are whether he sticks with either of Youngs/Care and if JVP has had his chance or will be backed to regain form?
Warr is currently first choice at Sale isn't he?
He was last season after Quirke came back from injury. Quirke started the first game of the season, Warr started on Saturday. Pretty level pegging, looks like.
Just caught the highlights and absolutely loved the final counter ruck which was basically a 1 man counter ruck by Thomas Du Toit!
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"
I don't think we ever looked like losing and it is many, many years since that was the case playing Saracens
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