Bath
Sale v Bath - A PRE-CHRISTMAS SALE - BUT........
Cam Redpath
By Bath Supporter Jack
November 22 2023
.......WILL IT BE A BARGAIN FOR BATH
Echoing Devonport Boy’s minor rant in respect of last week’s Friday night game I will repeat my dislike of these Friday night fixtures. Especially a game in northern climes at the A J Bell Stadium, just off the M60, late in November.
This game has added piquancy as of course it is number one in the league against number two. Who would have thought this three months ago? However, as we all know the league is very, very tight with a lot of bonus points for close games and points for lots of tries.
Anyone reading the papers on Sunday would have noted a big win for Sale against Newcastle on the Friday night. In the current environment a 40 – 22 is comfortable in anyone’s language, except when it isn’t! Newcastle scored first and in the last 10 minutes with the score at 26 – 22 were pressurising Sale on their own line. So not such an easy game as the scoreline might suggest.
Bath on the other hand against Bristol, were sublime for 30 minutes, but did not score the points they should have done and allowed Bristol back into the game such that Bath were behind and had to come back in the last few minutes. Did Bath deserve to win? Well, who cares, but I know they did not deserve to lose. After the loss to Leicester, I suppose I take a view that over 18 games things even out.
Alex Sanderson has turned Sale into a very tough team to beat, not unlike the Saracen’s team that he coached before moving to Salford. He has pragmatically opened up the squad so that if your name is Du Preeze or Curry you are in the squad, which when you are watching them on television seems to make up half the team! In addition, apart from the “England” Curry the players are of course very good, but not perceived to be quite good enough for South Africa or England. This is perfect for a squad as no one goes off for national service only to be returned “broken”.
So, on Friday night Bath have a really tough game on their hands. This is already an “eight-pointer” as the winner will put some clear water between themselves and the pack. In the past Bath’s record away at Sale, invariably on a Friday night is not good. However, I feel that this squad are in the words of the impressive “JVG”, doing everything to improve and be better. It is games like this that Bath has to win to establish their credentials in the Premiership.
Sale will pick much the same team as they started with against Newcastle.
Bath might well rotate some players however I would like to see the same squad, with the exception of Fergus Lee Warner who has, I believe, unfortunately left Bath and so there needs to be at least one change.
Ollie Lawrence had a wonderful first half against Bristol and it would lovely to see him combining again with Sale old-boy Cam Redpath and continue his rich vein of form. With Manu Tuilagi still injured from the World Cup there is a very real danger he will be making the England centre position his own.
Given it is now a reduced premiership with one third of the league already finished, and we haven’t even reached the end of November, I think it is imperative that we play a very strong team – I am sure JVG would argue that every team he puts out is a strong team, however there are strong teams and then there is your strongest team.
Bath by 1
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StumbleuponSale v Bath - A PRE-CHRISTMAS SALE - BUT........TEAM’S UP!
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 22/11/2023 09:24
22/11/2023 09:24
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:29:14:03:08 by hasta.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:29:14:03:08 by hasta.
Friday night games at the A J Bell are the most unappealing games in the rugby calendar for away fans. I try to go to all the Bath away games and like to travel by train but impossible to get one back on a Friday. Even driving on a Friday is hassle, you get caught somewhere in heavy traffic. Hats off to the Bath fans who make this trip.
Nice read !
If I was guess at a team with the rotation mindset in mind
1. Schoeman
2. Dunn
3. TDT
4. Ewels
5. GJ Van Velze
6. Reid (Possibly Richards)
7 Underhill
8. Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russell
11. Muir
12. Butt
13. Ojomoh
14. Cokansiga
15. TDG
16. Annett
17. Obano
18. Stuart
19. Roux
20. Coetzee
21. TCS
22. Bailey
23. Redpath
At some point Reid or Underhill will have to be rested just not sure when that is
If I was guess at a team with the rotation mindset in mind
1. Schoeman
2. Dunn
3. TDT
4. Ewels
5. GJ Van Velze
6. Reid (Possibly Richards)
7 Underhill
8. Barbs
9. Spencer
10. Russell
11. Muir
12. Butt
13. Ojomoh
14. Cokansiga
15. TDG
16. Annett
17. Obano
18. Stuart
19. Roux
20. Coetzee
21. TCS
22. Bailey
23. Redpath
At some point Reid or Underhill will have to be rested just not sure when that is
I'm sitting in the office three miles from the AJ Bell right now - and will drive past it later. I'll be back in well before 1945 on Friday though.
I think JVG will take Europe seriously this year - I think he believes the club needs a much better run than previous years. With Exeter and Ulster on the horizon, I think we might see a few changes this week.
I think JVG will take Europe seriously this year - I think he believes the club needs a much better run than previous years. With Exeter and Ulster on the horizon, I think we might see a few changes this week.
Looks like Stuart is also on holiday by his socials so doubt he will be playing.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Good read BSJ.
Lawrence rumoured to be on holiday.
I wonder if Faiva might get a place in the 23?
I think JvG's approach tends towards " a marathon not a sprint" so he will rotate up until the final few fixtures. That seemed to be the way last season-although I acknowledge injuries had some bearing in the season's first half.
PG
Lawrence rumoured to be on holiday.
I wonder if Faiva might get a place in the 23?
I think JvG's approach tends towards " a marathon not a sprint" so he will rotate up until the final few fixtures. That seemed to be the way last season-although I acknowledge injuries had some bearing in the season's first half.
PG
It will be interesting to see how strong JVG goes.
Looking forward to Warr/Ford v Spencer/Russell.
Looking forward to Warr/Ford v Spencer/Russell.
Not so much of a pre Christmas Sale for me, more of a Black Friday! Can't see us getting anything out of this one.
Has it been confirmed that FLW has left Farleigh/the country?
I think I read that his short-term deal was until the end of November and that v Bristol was his last game at The Rec. He'd be useful to have on Friday night. Despite some having seen pictures of Stooke training at FH, the fact his signing hasn't been announced yet makes me think that FLW might have one more week.
[ cue Stooke's signing being announced this afternoon ]
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think I read that his short-term deal was until the end of November and that v Bristol was his last game at The Rec. He'd be useful to have on Friday night. Despite some having seen pictures of Stooke training at FH, the fact his signing hasn't been announced yet makes me think that FLW might have one more week.
[ cue Stooke's signing being announced this afternoon ]
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I believe this Friday will be FLW's last game and I hope the boys can send him off with a huge win. My XXiii would be:
Tom DG, Joe C, Butt, Cam R, Muir, Bailey, Schreuder, Schoeman, Annett, TDT, FLW, Roux, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee - Faiva, Obano, Jonker, GVV, Barbery, Spencer, Russell, Gallagher.
Will need plenty of leaders out there come the end - the bench may prove essential - Falcons appeared to have Sale's number last week and ran out of gas in the last 10 minutes and Sale ran in a lot of points. Good time to rest a few Ewels, Stuart, Lawrence and I wouldn't be too surprised if Cam Redpath is rested as well although I would imagine he will be rested the following week with Lawrence back against Chiefs. I too hope Richards will be back in the fold but this may not be his type of game.
Let us not forget Sale have a busy schedule coming up with Quins away next Friday and then Europe.
JvG will want to try and line up a mismatch - potentially bringing on Russell and Spencer when Ford and either Warr or Quirke have half a match in their legs may prove even really beneficial.
Tom DG, Joe C, Butt, Cam R, Muir, Bailey, Schreuder, Schoeman, Annett, TDT, FLW, Roux, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee - Faiva, Obano, Jonker, GVV, Barbery, Spencer, Russell, Gallagher.
Will need plenty of leaders out there come the end - the bench may prove essential - Falcons appeared to have Sale's number last week and ran out of gas in the last 10 minutes and Sale ran in a lot of points. Good time to rest a few Ewels, Stuart, Lawrence and I wouldn't be too surprised if Cam Redpath is rested as well although I would imagine he will be rested the following week with Lawrence back against Chiefs. I too hope Richards will be back in the fold but this may not be his type of game.
Let us not forget Sale have a busy schedule coming up with Quins away next Friday and then Europe.
JvG will want to try and line up a mismatch - potentially bringing on Russell and Spencer when Ford and either Warr or Quirke have half a match in their legs may prove even really beneficial.
I think I would do:
Tdg
Coko
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Finn
Spencer
Schoeman
Annett
Tdt
Roux/mcnally
Flw
Reid
Underhill
Coetzee
Bench: dunn, beno, stuart, gj vv, barbeary, schreuder, bailey, butt
Plenty of bang off the bench!
Tdg
Coko
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Finn
Spencer
Schoeman
Annett
Tdt
Roux/mcnally
Flw
Reid
Underhill
Coetzee
Bench: dunn, beno, stuart, gj vv, barbeary, schreuder, bailey, butt
Plenty of bang off the bench!
Not like me to not crowbar ewan richards in but think let's use flw while we have him and I think richards use to the squad will ramp up after he goes.
Stooke will help a lot with roux and cuckson both out and mcnally a bit out of sorts. Thought our pairing last week looked a bit lightweight
Stooke will help a lot with roux and cuckson both out and mcnally a bit out of sorts. Thought our pairing last week looked a bit lightweight
Sale almost selling out !
Doubled previous attendances from past 3 home games, very very surprising.
Wonder how they’ve done that can’t be purely down to Bath travelling support ?
Doubled previous attendances from past 3 home games, very very surprising.
Wonder how they’ve done that can’t be purely down to Bath travelling support ?
Travelling support or no, it's a top of the table clash
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
The chance to watch Finn Russell on a dry night- roll up roll up!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
It’s nice to be sitting 2nd in the table but we are only 2 points ahead of 3 other teams. It’s too early to assess the relative strengths of those teams but the way I look at is that we have an outstanding half-back pairing & an outstanding centre in Lawrence. However, equally or even more important is the strength of the forward pack & we have not proved any dominance there so until that is established our progress will fluctuate I reckon.
Tom Ellis long term injury
Quirke long term injury
It’s going to be very cold!
Quirke long term injury
It’s going to be very cold!
Sale fully loaded including LCD at 2 and Ford at 10.
Bath strong too. Obano, Underhill and Barbeary main omissions? plus a bit of rotation.
Looks like it should be a cracking Friday night game.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:23:12:11:08 by OldMarovian.
Bath strong too. Obano, Underhill and Barbeary main omissions? plus a bit of rotation.
Looks like it should be a cracking Friday night game.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:23:12:11:08 by OldMarovian.
Quite a few changes then but not a complete B team capitulation. Healthy rotation clearly the order of the day.
Fine with rotation although not convinced about du Toit as a loosehead. Think he can cover it but not sure if he should unless really needed and always feel like Schonert is low key one of the best tight heads around
Any points from this one gladly received.
Any points from this one gladly received.
A few more rested than expected but as been said this game is not vital anything out of it is great. Finn still there, and a good set of backs.
Game will be down to pack fronting up, another big game for Coetzee and excited to see Merigan have a crack again
Game will be down to pack fronting up, another big game for Coetzee and excited to see Merigan have a crack again
There are about 3000 plus standing and quite a few seats left so don’t let that put you off a trip to the AJSmell. Sale have picked the best we have available. Schonert is England qualified but is now seen as one of our weaknesses. Chances are Warr will play 80 unless the result is clear by 65 minutes.
If it is a tight score going into last quarter it could be a massive game for Archie Griffin if he comes off the bench
Good to see richards get a go at 6 and bonus to have cloete back.
I find the level of rotation surprising and a bit disappointing but the 23 still looks good to me and capable of getting something.
Would it be better if other clubs seem to be targeting home games to pick strong teams for away games and go weaker at home!? High risk but should still win majority of home games and nick more away games?
Understand the approach of going strong at home and rotating when away- safer but just not convinced it's best overall.
Would be disappointing to lose to sale and not pick up a lbp and then win comfortably against exeter if we go fully loaded and they rotate.
In jvg we trust, he will have loads more info about players load, who has to rest when etc.
I find the level of rotation surprising and a bit disappointing but the 23 still looks good to me and capable of getting something.
Would it be better if other clubs seem to be targeting home games to pick strong teams for away games and go weaker at home!? High risk but should still win majority of home games and nick more away games?
Understand the approach of going strong at home and rotating when away- safer but just not convinced it's best overall.
Would be disappointing to lose to sale and not pick up a lbp and then win comfortably against exeter if we go fully loaded and they rotate.
In jvg we trust, he will have loads more info about players load, who has to rest when etc.
Quote:OldMarovian
Sale fully loaded including LCD at 2 and Ford at 10.
Bath strong too. Obano, Underhill and Barbeary main omissions? plus a bit of rotation.
Looks like it should be a cracking Friday night game.
Those 3- assume/hope rested.
Plus stuart, ewels, reid, lawrence, coko, muir. Again hopefully just rested.
It's a looong way from a best available squad.
Imagine quinn roux still unavailable sadly.
Really do like the look of that backrow.
Very nice balance to it.
Never been convinced by merigan but hope he goes well- a rare chance.
Very nice balance to it.
Never been convinced by merigan but hope he goes well- a rare chance.
So we know what we are talking about.
Big test for Archie Griffin, JvG is right to blood young players, not seen Merigan for a while.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Big test for Archie Griffin, JvG is right to blood young players, not seen Merigan for a while.
I see we're discussing the team, without posting it again
Top of the Table clash...
Ref: Karl Dickson (80th game)
TJs: George Selwood & Jamie Leahy
TMO: David Rose
Sale:
1 Bevan Rodd
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Nick Schonert
4 Cobus Wiese
5 Jonny Hill
6 Ernst van Rhyn
7 Ben Curry ©
8 Dan du Preez
09 Gus Warr
10 George Ford
11 Arron Reed
12 Sam Bedlow
13 Rob du Preez
14 Tom Roebuck
15 Joe Carpenter
16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Si McIntyre, 18 James Harper, 19 Josh Beaumont, 20 Ben Bamber
21 Nye Thomas, 22 Sam James, 23 Tom O’Flaherty
Bath:
1 Thomas du Toit
2 Niall Annett
3 Johannes Jonker
4 Josh McNally
5 GJ van Velze ©
6 Ewan Richards
7 Chris Cloete
8 Jaco Coetzee
09 Louis Schreuder
10 Finn Russell
11 Matt Gallagher
12 Will Butt
13 Max Ojomoh
14 Ruaridh McConnochie
15 Tom de Glanville
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Fergus Lee-Warner, 20 Nahum Merigan
21 Ben Spencer, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Cameron Redpath
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:23:13:10:43 by Quel Carreleur.
Top of the Table clash...
Ref: Karl Dickson (80th game)
TJs: George Selwood & Jamie Leahy
TMO: David Rose
Sale:
1 Bevan Rodd
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie
3 Nick Schonert
4 Cobus Wiese
5 Jonny Hill
6 Ernst van Rhyn
7 Ben Curry ©
8 Dan du Preez
09 Gus Warr
10 George Ford
11 Arron Reed
12 Sam Bedlow
13 Rob du Preez
14 Tom Roebuck
15 Joe Carpenter
16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Si McIntyre, 18 James Harper, 19 Josh Beaumont, 20 Ben Bamber
21 Nye Thomas, 22 Sam James, 23 Tom O’Flaherty
Bath:
1 Thomas du Toit
2 Niall Annett
3 Johannes Jonker
4 Josh McNally
5 GJ van Velze ©
6 Ewan Richards
7 Chris Cloete
8 Jaco Coetzee
09 Louis Schreuder
10 Finn Russell
11 Matt Gallagher
12 Will Butt
13 Max Ojomoh
14 Ruaridh McConnochie
15 Tom de Glanville
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Fergus Lee-Warner, 20 Nahum Merigan
21 Ben Spencer, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Cameron Redpath
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:23:13:10:43 by Quel Carreleur.
Oh great... Karl Dickson...!!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!
Thanks charlieboa. You're right that is quite a rotation. I kind of feel I know most of the Bath main squad and yet didn't pick out how many were missing.
I'd suggest any points picked up away (true for all clubs) will be a result.
I'd suggest any points picked up away (true for all clubs) will be a result.
A bit less rotation would've been nice...but seeing as the drop off in quality at both 9 and 10 is so massive, it's good to see we've learnt from Saints game. Need to have one of Finn/Spencer from the off.
Intrigued to see how Richards goes and hopefully Coetzee can build on the last couple of games. Can't see anything but possibly a LBP but you never know
Intrigued to see how Richards goes and hopefully Coetzee can build on the last couple of games. Can't see anything but possibly a LBP but you never know
Quote:plong
Oh great... Karl Dickson...!!!!
I do think this adds greatly to the uncertainty concerning the outcome. Few Prem refs can influence a game like Dickson, often for all the wrong reasons....
I feel like Dickson how I used to feel about Carley, Tempest and Maxwell-Keys (where's he now?) - pernickity and insecure, but they all seem to have kicked on and become pretty good refs, but Dickson seems stuck at that level.
… but for some reason Dicksen got a tonne of high profile World Cup games and ran the line in the final. It baffles me. It’s nothing personal but the games he refs are, imho, rarely as enjoyable as when others are on the whistle.
Our XXIII will do. Id like to have gone there fully loaded, or with marginally less rotation, but it’s a chance for some and I’ll take a decent performance, rather than worrying about any league points. Always like GJVV in the side, good Cloete is back, and it’s a fun back line outside of Finn. Nothing to lose! (Apart from the match and our place in the league, of course).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Our XXIII will do. Id like to have gone there fully loaded, or with marginally less rotation, but it’s a chance for some and I’ll take a decent performance, rather than worrying about any league points. Always like GJVV in the side, good Cloete is back, and it’s a fun back line outside of Finn. Nothing to lose! (Apart from the match and our place in the league, of course).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I guess the selection would suggest we are going fully loaded against Chiefs next week - The team and finishers has a good mix of experience and youth. Finn and TDT are getting plenty of game time and I would expect they will be due a week off soon however the fixture list looks packed with must win games. I would have liked to start with Bailey this week to give him game time with Spencer and Russell on the bench but hey ho.
Dickson is a lottery but he is a lottery for both sides to be fair. Weather looks to be dry at the moment for the game - still confident of this squad - Come on Bath.
Dickson is a lottery but he is a lottery for both sides to be fair. Weather looks to be dry at the moment for the game - still confident of this squad - Come on Bath.
Hard to tell how good a team that is but a LBP looks like a reasonable outcome.
How are our backups ever going to get better if we don't play them. Rotating one or two players a game doesn't give the backups any opportunities. We need a squad of 30+ who are up and firing if we are going to keep our place in the table. remember how good Sarries 3rd team was last year!
We've been lucky with injuries so far but if we get unlucky we will need backups to slot in and be upto speed otherwise every game is likely to become a proper must win game. Give the backups a go - they know they have a chance to perform in a winning team (a big difference from the last few years)
We've been lucky with injuries so far but if we get unlucky we will need backups to slot in and be upto speed otherwise every game is likely to become a proper must win game. Give the backups a go - they know they have a chance to perform in a winning team (a big difference from the last few years)
I will be the first to admit that I struggle to remember past results, so can anyone enlighten me as to the last time we went to Sale on a Friday night and came away with a result? Rightly or wrongly I have in my mind that it is normally a miserable damp night and often cold, and we come away with absolutely nothing having been totally put to the sword. I hope that tomorrow, the result on all fronts will be different but it will take a mighty effort from the selected team to get a result.
I agree with Hemington that you cannot just keep our squad members 'in reserve', they have to get some game time if they are to improve and to play against sides who are going well. Tomorrow will be a stern test1
I agree with Hemington that you cannot just keep our squad members 'in reserve', they have to get some game time if they are to improve and to play against sides who are going well. Tomorrow will be a stern test1
Don't have any problem with rotation and fully agree we need to deepen our squad and therefore back-up players need experience. Players need to perform better when they are under pressure and therefore we need to maintain discipline as games have slipped away from us when we have leaked dumb penalties.
I wish the team well but at our stage of development, I feel anything more than a LBP would be a good result - hope to be proven wrong.
I wish the team well but at our stage of development, I feel anything more than a LBP would be a good result - hope to be proven wrong.
Quote:hemington
How are our backups ever going to get better if we don't play them. Rotating one or two players a game doesn't give the backups any opportunities.
It usually gives them 15 mins on the pitch, I'm not sure many would cope with a start. Longer spells where it doesn't go well can destroy young talent.
Quote:bathwickboy
I will be the first to admit that I struggle to remember past results, so can anyone enlighten me as to the last time we went to Sale on a Friday night and came away with a result? Rightly or wrongly I have in my mind that it is normally a miserable damp night and often cold, and we come away with absolutely nothing having been totally put to the sword. I hope that tomorrow, the result on all fronts will be different but it will take a mighty effort from the selected team to get a result.
I agree with Hemington that you cannot just keep our squad members 'in reserve', they have to get some game time if they are to improve and to play against sides who are going well. Tomorrow will be a stern test1
We won there on a Friday night in season 20/21..........27-22
Season 21/22 we lost on a Saturday to a last minute penalty..............19-20
Last season we lost on a Friday night to a last minute try............................27-30
So are recent record is pretty good.
Really not sure about the rotation of the backs.......
Forwards who have a much, much more physical game I suppose I do understand.
However these are men who have been training since end of June and have played a handful of games..........does a winger or full back need to be rested??
Forwards who have a much, much more physical game I suppose I do understand.
However these are men who have been training since end of June and have played a handful of games..........does a winger or full back need to be rested??
I'm feeling a little bit sad that we are not sending our best 23 for what is a top 2 clash and would feel let down if I was making the trip to support the team. On a positive point I can look forward to seeing Lawrence and co at the Exeter game.
Quote:Francis Allen
I'm feeling a little bit sad that we are not sending our best 23 for what is a top 2 clash and would feel let down if I was making the trip to support the team. On a positive point I can look forward to seeing Lawrence and co at the Exeter game.
Saving our strongest team for a must win home game against Exeter and resting for an unlikely LBP possibility at Sale makes sense to me.
I’d have rested Finn as well.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:23:19:01:46 by OutsideBath.
We've always been competitive in the Enya game. I think a LBP is quite possible.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Can't shift the feeling we have rotated slightly too much to get anything.
If one of beno/ stuart were in the 23 and one of barbeary/ underhill I would feel a lot more confident.
If one of beno/ stuart were in the 23 and one of barbeary/ underhill I would feel a lot more confident.
I’d much rather we rotate in a managed, proactive way than feeling compelled to put the ‘strongest’ team on the park every week until the pips squeak, after which we’re left being forced to ‘rotate’ by default.
Certainly not saying we should go strongest team every week, thats insanity- more rotate 6 or 7 this week and 5 or 6 again next week rather than 11/12 this week and presumably reverting to something like a strongest team next week.
It may well work- 5 pts from these 2 fixtures would be a decent return.
As I say , just feel that even with a couple less rotated out we would have a much better chance tomorrow. Beno or stuart off the bench, underhill or barbeary off the bench and i am feeling bullish. Could easily rotate a handful again and have an excellent chance of beating chiefs at home.
I feel the only dramatic drop off in selections we will feel through the season is at half back which is more a reflection of the massive influence and quality of the first choices than the shortcomings of the back ups. Depth feels good to me elsewhere.
It may well work- 5 pts from these 2 fixtures would be a decent return.
As I say , just feel that even with a couple less rotated out we would have a much better chance tomorrow. Beno or stuart off the bench, underhill or barbeary off the bench and i am feeling bullish. Could easily rotate a handful again and have an excellent chance of beating chiefs at home.
I feel the only dramatic drop off in selections we will feel through the season is at half back which is more a reflection of the massive influence and quality of the first choices than the shortcomings of the back ups. Depth feels good to me elsewhere.
The strength of a team is in a coherent game plan that can be executed by multiple alternatives. This is a good team. It might not be our best, but it's an excellent team who can be set to go hunting. Sale are a very good team, but they are not invulnerable. We can hunt them down, squeeze them and get a result. GJVV is an excellent choice of captain, great to see 50 up for Schoemann! and I can see 2 tries for TdG.
Let's go boys!
Let's go boys!
Agree with all that hasta. Despite my reservations there is a lot to be excited about in that 23 as I have said and i look forward to the match where i am hopefully proved wrong
As you say good on schoeman- he has improved a lot in last few years.
Gj vv i was completely wrong about- if he can stay fit then inspirational signing .and congrats on his recent award for his business / charity interests.
Sarries are the blueprint- was only when they are missing about 15 of their best players that you see any significant drop off in performances
As you say good on schoeman- he has improved a lot in last few years.
Gj vv i was completely wrong about- if he can stay fit then inspirational signing .and congrats on his recent award for his business / charity interests.
Sarries are the blueprint- was only when they are missing about 15 of their best players that you see any significant drop off in performances
My heart sank when I saw who the ref is.
The authorities really should explain to us all why he keeps getting games despite making massive, match influencing howlers pretty much every single game.
The authorities really should explain to us all why he keeps getting games despite making massive, match influencing howlers pretty much every single game.
Yeh, I agree with all of the posts above about the merits of rotation and the necessity, too. It's a marathon (not a very long one!), not a sprint.
As with so much in sport, the answer will be on the scoreboard-
Get beat by +25 points, it'll be a shame as our A team could have gone there and competed and it dents confidence. Wouldn't be the end of the world, but proof that our squad depth isn't what it should be, so we're going to have to rely on the big guns more than we'd like to if we want top 4.
Narrow loss and an LBP, absolutely take that, especially if the team plays to a clear plan and guys like Annett, Richards, Cloete, McCon, Butt put their hands up for the first XV.
Any sort of win, blimey we're well set for this season and beyond.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As with so much in sport, the answer will be on the scoreboard-
Get beat by +25 points, it'll be a shame as our A team could have gone there and competed and it dents confidence. Wouldn't be the end of the world, but proof that our squad depth isn't what it should be, so we're going to have to rely on the big guns more than we'd like to if we want top 4.
Narrow loss and an LBP, absolutely take that, especially if the team plays to a clear plan and guys like Annett, Richards, Cloete, McCon, Butt put their hands up for the first XV.
Any sort of win, blimey we're well set for this season and beyond.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
This is tough to call. I agree with others that this feels as though we have rotated 2 or 3 more than we should have, then again we have some class on the bench and we are a more confident squad than previously.
We have all seen similar nights where the home team gets the ref on side and the game gets away from us. My hope is we are a lot more resilient this season.
On balance, I would be pleasantly surprised if we win this one.
We have all seen similar nights where the home team gets the ref on side and the game gets away from us. My hope is we are a lot more resilient this season.
On balance, I would be pleasantly surprised if we win this one.
I was a bit taken aback by some of these comments, you would think that we are sending the Bath FC u13s up there in some cases. Are the likes of Annett, van Velze, Cloete, McConnochie really a huge drop from those who people think are the first choice in those positions? Maybe they have looked better in training this week and / or maybe a few of the guys who played last week are carrying a knock or two? I see it as a great opportunity for these guys to put their hands up for the Cup Final 23...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:BathMatt53
I was a bit taken aback by some of these comments, you would think that we are sending the Bath FC u13s up there in some cases. Are the likes of Annett, van Velze, Cloete, McConnochie really a huge drop from those who people think are the first choice in those positions? Maybe they have looked better in training this week and / or maybe a few of the guys who played last week are carrying a knock or two? I see it as a great opportunity for these guys to put their hands up for the Cup Final 23...
For me, in team sports you look around you and gain confidence from who you see. The opposition do the same and maybe take heart from who they don't see.
This is a great test of how JvG can transfer belief from those rested onto those stepping up.
Looks to me like the back 3 have been chosen as the best chasers/catches for box kicks from both teams. Think the ball will see plenty of air time tonight. The rest will come down to which pack rules the breakdown. Curry v Cloete should be worth watching.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Quote:BathMatt53
I was a bit taken aback by some of these comments, you would think that we are sending the Bath FC u13s up there in some cases. Are the likes of Annett, van Velze, Cloete, McConnochie really a huge drop from those who people think are the first choice in those positions? Maybe they have looked better in training this week and / or maybe a few of the guys who played last week are carrying a knock or two? I see it as a great opportunity for these guys to put their hands up for the Cup Final 23...
Agree with all that and of course jvg and staff are infinitely better placed than any of us to make that judgement.
My only real observation from the outside is that resting all of beno, stuart, ewels, reid, underhill, barbeary, lawrence, coko, muir from the 23 completely and benching spencer is some serious rotation.
I just can't see us getting anything- bring a couple of those rested forwards on to the bench and I would feel pretty chipper about our chances of at least a lbp.
I am prob in the minority that feels confident we could turn exeter over at home with a squad far from the cup final 23.
The squad for tonight looks v strong still and drop off is minimal in various positions but its against top of the league away from home. Big ask.
Defo a good point about players carrying knocks.
Also I think the eng guys have mandated rests during this block of games? Assume that impacts stuart, underhill, lawrence? Think they have played all the games since they have come back into the training group at Farleigh?
Fingers crossed means we can now play them as and when we see fit til the build up to the 6n.
Also I think the eng guys have mandated rests during this block of games? Assume that impacts stuart, underhill, lawrence? Think they have played all the games since they have come back into the training group at Farleigh?
Fingers crossed means we can now play them as and when we see fit til the build up to the 6n.
Quote:hasta
The strength of a team is in a coherent game plan that can be executed by multiple alternatives.
Absolutely spot on. And if the 'multiple alternatives' prove not to be good enough this evening, then that just means that the Club isn't ready to compete at the top. Players like Butt, McConnoghie, Annett, McNally, Richards should have more than enough motivation. The other thing is that, when your 'first team' is actually a very, very good team, and highly likely to be competitive in any game, and strong favourites in most, then the motivation and excitement of pushing yourself to be in that picture is an awful lot greater than when there's a whole lot of mediocrity around, as has been the case for several past season.
I have far more belief this 23 can win than the team who were one scrum away for winning at Sale back in January. That's partly individuals, but mainly the way we are playing and our confidence.
Looking at the two Bath line ups, there's a lot of similarity. Butt, Mojo, Annett, Cloete, Gallagher all started last year. Our front row looks stronger with TDT instead of Morozov. GVV no drop off from Atwood. Finn instead of Landy. McConnochie instead of Big Joe. Spencer and Hill started last year but Richards and Schreuder can step up.
I'm not saying we will win but I don't think this a foregone conclusion by any means. I bet Sanderson doesn't either.
Looking at the two Bath line ups, there's a lot of similarity. Butt, Mojo, Annett, Cloete, Gallagher all started last year. Our front row looks stronger with TDT instead of Morozov. GVV no drop off from Atwood. Finn instead of Landy. McConnochie instead of Big Joe. Spencer and Hill started last year but Richards and Schreuder can step up.
I'm not saying we will win but I don't think this a foregone conclusion by any means. I bet Sanderson doesn't either.
I like to think that some of the reactions is not down to a huge drop off in player talent - more about an increased expectation.
Personally I think this is a good XXiii and has every chance to go to Manchester on what looks like a dry night and maybe just maybe shock everyone and win a match every pundit seems to think we will lose and lose comfortably.
The big difference in attitude this season is that you do not win the league on one night in Manchester this is not a sprint and it is more important to make sure that the squad is looked after, injury free and fresh ready for the business end of the season.
Saracens have shown the way in the English league in that you must have a squad capable of performing whilst being able to rest your stars and it does pay dividends.
Our match at Sarries this season I personally think is our best win to date - yes they were short of their England players but if you actually look at their side it was absolute quality - and a lot of teams would have lost that game as we would have a couple of seasons ago - but we bossed it and more importantly proved to ourselves that we can compete and beat the very best.
I am confident that the side will perform tonight and hopefully we will shock a few pundits and people. Come on Bath.
Personally I think this is a good XXiii and has every chance to go to Manchester on what looks like a dry night and maybe just maybe shock everyone and win a match every pundit seems to think we will lose and lose comfortably.
The big difference in attitude this season is that you do not win the league on one night in Manchester this is not a sprint and it is more important to make sure that the squad is looked after, injury free and fresh ready for the business end of the season.
Saracens have shown the way in the English league in that you must have a squad capable of performing whilst being able to rest your stars and it does pay dividends.
Our match at Sarries this season I personally think is our best win to date - yes they were short of their England players but if you actually look at their side it was absolute quality - and a lot of teams would have lost that game as we would have a couple of seasons ago - but we bossed it and more importantly proved to ourselves that we can compete and beat the very best.
I am confident that the side will perform tonight and hopefully we will shock a few pundits and people. Come on Bath.
Looking at that team I sort of get the feeling that JvG is saying, go out and give it your best lads, if we are still in with a chance of a win at 60 mins he'll let the big guns have a run out!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:shipwrecked
Looking at that team I sort of get the feeling that JvG is saying, go out and give it your best lads, if we are still in with a chance of a win at 60 mins he'll let the big guns have a run out!
Thats kind of my point that if we had beno or stuart and reid or underhill or barbeary on the bench you have those big guns as an option if we are within a score or 2 (or are up and have something to cling on to).
Mind you dunn, flw, spencer and cam are great options to have and I am also excited to see how griffin and merigan go (just would rather have seen them used next week).
It's definitely intriguing- win tonight and it's a huge shot in the arm as you basically have a squad of c35 players you can have complete faith in.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but it appears our game is not televised tonight?
Quote:B4thB4ck
Not sure if this has been mentioned but it appears our game is not televised tonight?
Its 1st vs 2nd, what do you expect?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:Thanks. Who would have thought 1st v 2nd doesn't get chosen out of the 2 games, eh?nick holder
it is being covered by PTRV only.
I was planning a visit to my local club to watch the game but not sure they will show PRTV....
The TV schedules will have been decided way before the season started.
Be thankful that Bath have been on TV 2 weeks running!
Be thankful that Bath have been on TV 2 weeks running!
But with TNT covering at least 3 games over a weekend and now there’s only 5 fixtures in total, it seems a bit unlucky to be one of the 2 games not on the box!
Just on team selection, Ollie Lawrence stated on Monday that JvG intends to concentrate on home games and get a few away wins this season. Might explain selection.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Not sure if sitting on the bench is really a rest and certainly not a week off. They could play 79 minutes and certainly have tio train all week. If we believe in giving players a rest - give them a proper rest (e.g a week off on holiday or DIY at home)
It's a bit of both.
sitting on the bench means they're still in camp all week, with physical and psychological intensity. But they'll be expecting to play a much shorter amount of rugby, and take fewer knew knocks physically.
It helps player welfare, but not as much as an actual break.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
sitting on the bench means they're still in camp all week, with physical and psychological intensity. But they'll be expecting to play a much shorter amount of rugby, and take fewer knew knocks physically.
It helps player welfare, but not as much as an actual break.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:hemington
Not sure if sitting on the bench is really a rest and certainly not a week off. They could play 79 minutes and certainly have tio train all week
I'm pretty sure that the amount of contact work in training is much reduced these days, and that players will have modified training as per their fitness and conditioning needs. And if they are selected for the bench, they are fit to play 80 minutes. If they do end up playing 60+ minutes then that would be reflected in future playing/rotation schedule.
Would be interested in getting views on squad rotation. Whilst I agree it is crucial to rotate our squad it would be great to understand why some of the first teamers (Spencer, Dunn, Redpath) are still on the bench, why do we not just give them a week off? I have never got my head around it. I feel that the may as well start if they are already on the bench?
I am probably missing something but interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.
I am probably missing something but interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.
Quote:rockingROKO
Would be interested in getting views on squad rotation. Whilst I agree it is crucial to rotate our squad it would be great to understand why some of the first teamers (Spencer, Dunn, Redpath) are still on the bench, why do we not just give them a week off? I have never got my head around it. I feel that the may as well start if they are already on the bench?
I am probably missing something but interested to hear people’s thoughts on this.
They are getting a week of, in rotation, Ollie Lawrence of this week, gone somewhere hot but he isn't saying where!
Good vision from Finn leads to a break by TdG, passed back inside to MOjoh, who runs infield rather than towards Ruaridh.
Ends up penalty to Bath deep in Sale's 22
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Ends up penalty to Bath deep in Sale's 22
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:looked like a stinger, possible broken top rib.Mike the Taxi
RMcC injured?
Lost a shoulder battle with Curry
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:20:37:41 by Quel Carreleur.
Excellent discipline and decent game management. Sale set piece looks dangerous and they make ground very easily through the forwards.
Strong first half from us by I sense we are going to need something extra in the second half not to get out-muscled late in the game.
Strong first half from us by I sense we are going to need something extra in the second half not to get out-muscled late in the game.
Penalty to Sale 8-9
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:02:46 by CoochieCoo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:02:46 by CoochieCoo.
Good defending from Bath from sustained attacks from Sale
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:20:36 by CoochieCoo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:20:36 by CoochieCoo.
Sale on top of all the tight exchanges, Bath creating the line-breaks, and pulling off some huge turnovers
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:30:33 by Quel Carreleur.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:30:33 by Quel Carreleur.
Quote:Sale 8 - 9 BathDorset Boy
How long to go Coochie?
9 min to go
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:28:48 by Quel Carreleur.
9 mins
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:30:22 by CoochieCoo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:30:22 by CoochieCoo.
LBP away with a heavily rotated side. Probably what we expected. Hard to know what we would have got with more beef in the pack.
Excellent defence and discipline but we were always under-powered.
Kudos to all defensively but particularly Annett and Butt. If we look weak anywhere then it is still the scrum; not sure we have the right ballast in second row without Roux.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:44:22 by Never In Doubt.
Excellent defence and discipline but we were always under-powered.
Kudos to all defensively but particularly Annett and Butt. If we look weak anywhere then it is still the scrum; not sure we have the right ballast in second row without Roux.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:24:21:44:22 by Never In Doubt.
Shame we couldn't hold out, but I think we'd all have taken that before the game!!!
Doesn’t sound like a classic judging from updates.
Disappointing but we always seem to struggle up there!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Disappointing but we always seem to struggle up there!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Shame having led for so long, but a LBP isn't a disaster, and clearly the much rotated squad were able to match a fully loaded Sale squad.
That stings, and also shows how far we've come with a heavily rotated squad against a very good Sale team
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Losing close games always hurts but if our much rotated side is that hard to beat away at the League leaders, we are doing of ok. Beat Exe next week and we are right back in there.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Shame having led for so long, but a LBP isn't a disaster, and clearly the much rotated squad were able to match a fully loaded Sale squad.
It was a brave performance but I am not sure we matched them. They made an incredible number of errors and we defended extremely well but we didn't really look like scoring in the second half and it looked like a matter of time before they got some points.
I am not doing down our performance which was well above expectations but we still looked second best in most aspects (to me).
Quote:Never In DoubtQuote:Dorset Boy
Shame having led for so long, but a LBP isn't a disaster, and clearly the much rotated squad were able to match a fully loaded Sale squad.
It was a brave performance but I am not sure we matched them. They made an incredible number of errors and we defended extremely well but we didn't really look like scoring in the second half and it looked like a matter of time before they got some points.
I am not doing down our performance which was well above expectations but we still looked second best in most aspects (to me).
+1
an excellent defensive performance but never really looked like scoring a try
Agree with the above. We weren't the better team. 2nd half we defended bravely but deeper and deeper and eventually that pressure tell.
I'm not sure some of the scrums deserved the punishment they received but we clearly came off 2nd best in that area in the refs eyes and our lineout was unreliable too. Our set piece reallynlet us down in this one.
Having said that for a heavily rotated team to hang in there for 80 minutes and nearly pull it off shows the leaps and bounds we have made. Can we follow it up with a win next week?
I'm not sure some of the scrums deserved the punishment they received but we clearly came off 2nd best in that area in the refs eyes and our lineout was unreliable too. Our set piece reallynlet us down in this one.
Having said that for a heavily rotated team to hang in there for 80 minutes and nearly pull it off shows the leaps and bounds we have made. Can we follow it up with a win next week?
It seems from those who watched the match that we were somewhat flattered by the scoreline which takes away from what seemed like a great effort. Still a work in progress then as we expected.
.
.
Just watched the game. Not a classic but I am vastly more encouraged by that performance than I have been for any game for a while. Sale away in an absolute arm wrestle and we matched them. The defence was just excellent and that's going to stand us in good stead for the season, especially as, with all due respect, that was probably not our first XXIII.
Yes, we could, with slightly better decision making, have won it at the death but that would have been unfair on Sale, I think, who basically played all the rugby in the second half. But we should regard that game as an important measure of this team. If we can wrestle Sale to a stand still, we can do it to anyone.
My MotM - I'm going with 2 of them - Josh McNally and GJ van Velze. Absolutely central to that wholly admirable second half performance.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:25:02:15:49 by joethefanatic.
Yes, we could, with slightly better decision making, have won it at the death but that would have been unfair on Sale, I think, who basically played all the rugby in the second half. But we should regard that game as an important measure of this team. If we can wrestle Sale to a stand still, we can do it to anyone.
My MotM - I'm going with 2 of them - Josh McNally and GJ van Velze. Absolutely central to that wholly admirable second half performance.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:25:02:15:49 by joethefanatic.
I only listened to the majority of the second half on the radio so won't comment much as hard to gauge too much from that.
I advocated slightly less change and a bit more firepower up front off the bench as felt we would come up slightly short- impossible to know if it would have made a difference but frustrating to get so close to an extra 3 pts and top of the league.
As bath fans we certainly know strong on paper doesn't equate to strong on pitch so going to give them the benefit of the doubt that selection was spot on ( and can only really judge squad management over the whole season).
Once they selected griffin and merigan glad they then gave them a decent run- didn't expect archie to get 35 mins!
Rmc only injury (step up Reagan grace?)? Stinger or look like something nastier?
As others have said , even though it sounded like we didn't deserve the win to get within a pen of top of the league away from home after making 12 changes and completely rotating some of our best players out of the 23 gives me real hope. You need depth and we are getting there.
What I would love is for guys who really stepped up last night to get more opps next week and beyond- hope the selection strategy isn't too set in stone, if someone goes well then reward them.
I advocated slightly less change and a bit more firepower up front off the bench as felt we would come up slightly short- impossible to know if it would have made a difference but frustrating to get so close to an extra 3 pts and top of the league.
As bath fans we certainly know strong on paper doesn't equate to strong on pitch so going to give them the benefit of the doubt that selection was spot on ( and can only really judge squad management over the whole season).
Once they selected griffin and merigan glad they then gave them a decent run- didn't expect archie to get 35 mins!
Rmc only injury (step up Reagan grace?)? Stinger or look like something nastier?
As others have said , even though it sounded like we didn't deserve the win to get within a pen of top of the league away from home after making 12 changes and completely rotating some of our best players out of the 23 gives me real hope. You need depth and we are getting there.
What I would love is for guys who really stepped up last night to get more opps next week and beyond- hope the selection strategy isn't too set in stone, if someone goes well then reward them.
Quote:Not even when we very nearly scored a try after a long break, that could very, very easily have been converted with slightly different decision making?hantssabre
an excellent defensive performance but never really looked like scoring a try
Finn and MOjo combine to put TdG through a gap, TdG makes good ground, passes inside to MOjo (passing a pace earlier would have kept himself in the chase and made it 3 on 2 rather than 2 on 2, a pass wide to Ruaridh was much more difficult, but would likely have resulted in a try if pulled off).
MOjo goes forwards and infield whilst Ruaridh holds his width in support (had they closed that gap to each other, the pass was on and the try would likely have been scored)
Quote:I'd say that you're getting the wrong impression.Bath Hammer
It seems from those who watched the match that we were somewhat flattered by the scoreline which takes away from what seemed like a great effort. Still a work in progress then as we expected.
It was a great team effort, we forced a lot of mistakes from Sale, but we were behind the 8-ball at the scrum (some of the scrum penalties looked harsh to me, but I fully admit to ignorance there) and hard yard carrying, so always on the back foot. We were also the only team to manufacture any real breaks, and always looked the better team when either played with any width.
It was a tight game that could have gone either way. A PD of more than 3 would have been flattering, whichever side had won.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:25:06:28:59 by Quel Carreleur.
Thought Thomas dT put a great shift in on the wrong side of the scrum. 75mns. Shows how valuable he is, but also that we still lack any depth at loose head.
Quote:22Dropout
Thought Thomas dT put a great shift in on the wrong side of the scrum. 75mns. Shows how valuable he is, but also that we still lack any depth at loose head.
Imagine he will get a well deserved rest next week with beno and stuart coming back in.
I like schoeman but agree about lack of depth at loosehead. Was desperately hoping we would pick up one of the many v good london irish props who became available but prob had no cap available.
Cordwell seems to be benching in the championship in recent weeks.
Quote:OutsideBath
The score line suggests TNT sport televised the right game last night.
... and how.
Tbf I didn't watch your game but it doesn't sound riveting.
Saints/Quins was a cracking watch. Discipline and defence still a bit of an issue for both but a really fun watch and some players with outstanding games.
Huge credit to Cox refereeing. Best performance I have seen this season. Clear, consistent communication but very little actual chat. A few things wrong but that's always the case. For those who want to know what it's like when a referee doesn't "coach" throughout the game that was a perfect example and it was fantastic.
Either Russell or Ford stand-out in anyway?
Scoreline was about right, and given our selection,I’d say a VERY good effort and pretty good outcome. Obviously, would have preferred the W, and we could’ve have it up until the last 30 seconds, but blimey we had a plan and we stuck to it and showed incredible heart, fight, dog etc. Sale will take some beating this year but incredibly pleasing to see that our A/B team can get that close. Huge efforts, especially from the front 5. Thought Griffen did really well when he came on, too.
Mightily impressed, and heartened, and despite wanting JvG to have picked a stronger squad, he clearly has a plan and, most importantly, the squad are buying into the plan and all stepping up. Technical skills aside (few too many errors, line out let us down) the fight and heart in the squad, exemplified in defence, is better than I’ve seen in years.
Got to beat Exeter now of course, but a positive loss, if ever there was one.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Mightily impressed, and heartened, and despite wanting JvG to have picked a stronger squad, he clearly has a plan and, most importantly, the squad are buying into the plan and all stepping up. Technical skills aside (few too many errors, line out let us down) the fight and heart in the squad, exemplified in defence, is better than I’ve seen in years.
Got to beat Exeter now of course, but a positive loss, if ever there was one.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
First half I thought was quite evenly matched and we probably deserved to go in ahead. Second half we didn't fire a shot. Despite some incredible defence, and lots of sale errors it felt inevitable we would concede in the end.
Some of the second string played really well. Butt defensively was great with some big turnovers. As with the Northampton game we were probably 1 or2 first string players away from getting the win.
As others have said, the scrum is a concern and probably cost us the game. It was as good a result as I was expecting considering the teams
I didn't think ford or Russell played great, although ford edged it just because of the spiral bombs he put up a number of times that we struggled with
Some of the second string played really well. Butt defensively was great with some big turnovers. As with the Northampton game we were probably 1 or2 first string players away from getting the win.
As others have said, the scrum is a concern and probably cost us the game. It was as good a result as I was expecting considering the teams
I didn't think ford or Russell played great, although ford edged it just because of the spiral bombs he put up a number of times that we struggled with
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
I might be wrong but are we the only side to have picked up points from every game?
That is a sign of a very good side and squad. Yes we have lost 2 but to pick up points in all 3 of those matches can only be a positive come the end of the season.
That is a sign of a very good side and squad. Yes we have lost 2 but to pick up points in all 3 of those matches can only be a positive come the end of the season.
Quote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Looks a minimum yellow to me.
Don't like seeing reds but struggling to see much mitigation and seems decent level of danger?
Quote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Not good and not malicious but that's a difficult situation really. He had no time and no room to bend at the hips, only thing he could have done is not tackle! It'll be a suspension.
I'd have said yellow before the RWC but we've gone back to lots of contact in upright tackles simply being ignored.
Very similar to Curry v Argentina. Seems things have simmered down a bit since then, but yellow minimum imo.
Anyone know what Cloete did to get up Ford’s nose at the final whistle? …other than be a nuisance all game. Other teams really don’t like him- makes me like him even more!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Anyone know what Cloete did to get up Ford’s nose at the final whistle? …other than be a nuisance all game. Other teams really don’t like him- makes me like him even more!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:OldMarovian
I'd have said yellow before the RWC but we've gone back to lots of contact in upright tackles simply being ignored.
Follow the (published) guidance and that's a card but I'm kind of glad we not changing games based on split seconds. I don't want rugby to descend into using cards to gain a competitive advantage.
I thought it was a card at possibly yellow when I saw it last night. Not even a penalty given.
For what it's worth although they won if I was a sale supporter (a rare beast I know).
I would be more worried they struggled to beat us at home when we only had 2 of the first choice team in the right position at kick off.
We lost the game as we couldn't keep the pressure off for significant periods in the 2nd half and for me that comes down to the scrum. The pens from there kept pinning us back and stopping any momentum developing.
I do think some of the calls were harsh and inconsistent eg scrum goes up on our ball us edging forward play away same happens on their ball pen.
TDT has be great around the park but for me hasn't put in the dominant scrummaging I was expecting. We need to change the picture we set to the refs as if we continue to get pinged it will derail our season.
I thought scrum was better with Schoeman..
Scrum aside yesterday showed we now have depth in the squad such we can compete at the top even without all our first choice players. Performances like this should keep the squad honest knowing the need to play well to be in line for the big games.
For what it's worth although they won if I was a sale supporter (a rare beast I know).
I would be more worried they struggled to beat us at home when we only had 2 of the first choice team in the right position at kick off.
We lost the game as we couldn't keep the pressure off for significant periods in the 2nd half and for me that comes down to the scrum. The pens from there kept pinning us back and stopping any momentum developing.
I do think some of the calls were harsh and inconsistent eg scrum goes up on our ball us edging forward play away same happens on their ball pen.
TDT has be great around the park but for me hasn't put in the dominant scrummaging I was expecting. We need to change the picture we set to the refs as if we continue to get pinged it will derail our season.
I thought scrum was better with Schoeman..
Scrum aside yesterday showed we now have depth in the squad such we can compete at the top even without all our first choice players. Performances like this should keep the squad honest knowing the need to play well to be in line for the big games.
Were all our props getting pinged?
Did griffin do as well as anyone?
It's a worry. One part of the challenge is getting dominance. The other part is convincing the officials of that.
We seem to failing at least one of those most games and it's killing us.
I do fear that some refs view it as a way to restart the game and go quickly to a full arm pen as under pressure to create a better spectacle. Understand that but it you are repeatedly on the wrong end of these calls it's a huge issue.
I feel tdt is v much a tighthead who can do a job at loosehead.
Schoeman is a decent scrummager I think compared to when he first joined.
Did griffin do as well as anyone?
It's a worry. One part of the challenge is getting dominance. The other part is convincing the officials of that.
We seem to failing at least one of those most games and it's killing us.
I do fear that some refs view it as a way to restart the game and go quickly to a full arm pen as under pressure to create a better spectacle. Understand that but it you are repeatedly on the wrong end of these calls it's a huge issue.
I feel tdt is v much a tighthead who can do a job at loosehead.
Schoeman is a decent scrummager I think compared to when he first joined.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:OutsideBath
The score line suggests TNT sport televised the right game last night.
... and how.
Tbf I didn't watch your game but it doesn't sound riveting.
Saints/Quins was a cracking watch. Discipline and defence still a bit of an issue for both but a really fun watch and some players with outstanding games.
Huge credit to Cox refereeing. Best performance I have seen this season. Clear, consistent communication but very little actual chat. A few things wrong but that's always the case. For those who want to know what it's like when a referee doesn't "coach" throughout the game that was a perfect example and it was fantastic.
Either Russell or Ford stand-out in anyway?
Agree about the ref, she was good.
Lawes got very wound up with Esterhuizen at one point, going after him off the ball. Quite unusual to see him lose his cool like that. Didn't see what caused it, there was a tackle just beforehand that looked a bit awkward but no replay.
On our scrum, had to look this up but I believe Stevie Scott is currently coaching it. Anyone have an opinion on him?
Listened to the game on the radio but whilst doing so I had the Cardiff v Stormers game on (no sound) interestingly also has a female ref, Hollie Davidson, again very good with a no coaching style.
That game was an excellent watch by the way.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
That game was an excellent watch by the way.
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:OutsideBath
The score line suggests TNT sport televised the right game last night.
... and how.
Tbf I didn't watch your game but it doesn't sound riveting.
Saints/Quins was a cracking watch. Discipline and defence still a bit of an issue for both but a really fun watch and some players with outstanding games.
Huge credit to Cox refereeing. Best performance I have seen this season. Clear, consistent communication but very little actual chat. A few things wrong but that's always the case. For those who want to know what it's like when a referee doesn't "coach" throughout the game that was a perfect example and it was fantastic.
Either Russell or Ford stand-out in anyway?
Cox was good, although thought she was too lenient for multiple infringements around the 5m line. Took her a few too many before issuing a warning.
Scrappy game, could have gone either way, but a Lbp at Sale is not a disaster, jvg was pretty positive afterwards.
Thought that Will Butt was the Bath motm, incredible defensive work, closely followed by Josh McN.
Big shout for Archie Griffin, thought he done well, but the overall scrum needs work.
If TDG. And MG are both playing, then give the 15 shirt to Gallagher!
Thought that Will Butt was the Bath motm, incredible defensive work, closely followed by Josh McN.
Big shout for Archie Griffin, thought he done well, but the overall scrum needs work.
If TDG. And MG are both playing, then give the 15 shirt to Gallagher!
Quote:charlieboa
Were all our props getting pinged?
Did griffin do as well as anyone?
It's a worry. One part of the challenge is getting dominance. The other part is convincing the officials of that.
We seem to failing at least one of those most games and it's killing us.
I do fear that some refs view it as a way to restart the game and go quickly to a full arm pen as under pressure to create a better spectacle. Understand that but it you are repeatedly on the wrong end of these calls it's a huge issue.
I feel tdt is v much a tighthead who can do a job at loosehead.
Schoeman is a decent scrummager I think compared to when he first joined.
I would suggest that the Bath scrum is a very different beast with Ewels and Roux in the second row. It's not all about the props.
And if Stooke brings his Wasps form to us there is another string to the bow
There’s real hope with JvG at the helm that Bath can once again think about top 4 as a possibility.
However whilst our lineout and scrum remain a liability it’s not going to happen.
However whilst our lineout and scrum remain a liability it’s not going to happen.
Quote:I guess that is the answer SW - somehow not tackle. Trouble is just keeping hands off could be seen as a no arms tackle instead of a collision. Did they think it was chest to chest first?shipwreckedQuote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Not good and not malicious but that's a difficult situation really. He had no time and no room to bend at the hips, only thing he could have done is not tackle! It'll be a suspension.
On balance, the tackler had an unobstructed view and a static target so not much mitigation.
Quote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Likely a retrospective citing, as per may in the Gloucester match.
PG
Agree re importance of locks at the scrummage.
We have played some relatively small combinations in recent weeks since roux got injured.
Flw and gj vv have played most of their rugby in the backrow
We have played some relatively small combinations in recent weeks since roux got injured.
Flw and gj vv have played most of their rugby in the backrow
Quote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Has to be minimum a yellow, but given he was upright, and could have set himself better for the tackle, then probably red.
But then look which muppet had the whistle.........
It's not good enough that the TMO missed it and it wasn't brought to Dickson's attention to at least review - Rosey fast asleep again too?
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Has to be minimum a yellow, but given he was upright, and could have set himself better for the tackle, then probably red.
But then look which muppet had the whistle.........
It's not good enough that the TMO missed it and it wasn't brought to Dickson's attention to at least review - Rosey fast asleep again too?
On my commentary at least, TMO said he reviewed it and told Dickson no offence.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
The poor scrum stats are disappointing. There was a significant improvement towards the end of last season when Hatley seemed to have got his act together after all the disruption. He goes & Stevie Scott comes in & we have regressed. It is a considerable disadvantage though I remember Wasps had a dreadful pack for several years but we’re regularly top 4 by disengaging early, when
possible & not playing an attritional game.. is that our way forward?
possible & not playing an attritional game.. is that our way forward?
Be surprised if we paid huge money on tdt with the that aim tbh.
Maybe it's just taking some time for him and Scott to settle into their roles and the prem.
.
Whilst we have been poor I do think several calls have been harsh/ wrong so managing officials is a big part of any solution.
Maybe it's just taking some time for him and Scott to settle into their roles and the prem.
.
Whilst we have been poor I do think several calls have been harsh/ wrong so managing officials is a big part of any solution.
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Dorset BoyQuote:hasta
Just seen the shot on Finn that wasn't looked at... Doesn't look good to me: [x.com]
Has to be minimum a yellow, but given he was upright, and could have set himself better for the tackle, then probably red.
But then look which muppet had the whistle.........
It's not good enough that the TMO missed it and it wasn't brought to Dickson's attention to at least review - Rosey fast asleep again too?
On my commentary at least, TMO said he reviewed it and told Dickson no offence.
Not sure going into a tackle from a kick chase bolt upright can be a rugby incident so don't know why a tmo would be fine with it.
There is v little consistency , for me it's worse than the curry red in the rwc.
I think a yellow would have been fair and consistent with what we have seen since latter stages of rwc.
That was a very strong Sale side likely to be top 2 and at home so I was hoping for 1) a LBP and 2) a tight defensive performance
Both boxes ticked from the reports I've read
I reckon only a very good top 4 side will get a result like that or better
We will be a better side for the experience especially for those like Butt who are not nailed on first choice and we will get stronger through the season
Overall highly encouraging
Both boxes ticked from the reports I've read
I reckon only a very good top 4 side will get a result like that or better
We will be a better side for the experience especially for those like Butt who are not nailed on first choice and we will get stronger through the season
Overall highly encouraging
Gaz spot on it was nigh on a full strength Sale side. bar one of the Curry's and Du Preez brother. Warr is favoured ahead of Quirke prior to Quirke's injury.
I see Friday's result as disappointing for the players to get so close to winning and losing by 2 points - but also as a huge positive:
1. Another Bonus point - only side in the Premiership to get points from every game this season - that is some going when you consider we have already been away to Sale, Northampton, Gloucester and Sarries - I am not sure how many of the current sides will be able to boast that record come the end of the season. What it shows is that we have a competitive squad and an in built belief to keep in the fight and not capitulate.
2. We are still flying under the radar especially in the media and from Danny Care's comments clearly he does not rate us as being in the mix come the end of the season which is great. Sandersons comments about that game being a monsterous physical battle tells you all you need to know,
3. JvG is being able to manage his squad and give key players time off to refresh without a huge drop off in display including getting the likes of Griffin, Hennessy and other young players valuable experience and highlights just what a student of the game and people JvG is, IMHO.
4, The only negative from Friday was it does highlight the need to get Roux and Stooke fit and into that second row - no point in having a prop oif the calibre of Thiomas Du Toit if he does not have the power behind him,
I see Friday's result as disappointing for the players to get so close to winning and losing by 2 points - but also as a huge positive:
1. Another Bonus point - only side in the Premiership to get points from every game this season - that is some going when you consider we have already been away to Sale, Northampton, Gloucester and Sarries - I am not sure how many of the current sides will be able to boast that record come the end of the season. What it shows is that we have a competitive squad and an in built belief to keep in the fight and not capitulate.
2. We are still flying under the radar especially in the media and from Danny Care's comments clearly he does not rate us as being in the mix come the end of the season which is great. Sandersons comments about that game being a monsterous physical battle tells you all you need to know,
3. JvG is being able to manage his squad and give key players time off to refresh without a huge drop off in display including getting the likes of Griffin, Hennessy and other young players valuable experience and highlights just what a student of the game and people JvG is, IMHO.
4, The only negative from Friday was it does highlight the need to get Roux and Stooke fit and into that second row - no point in having a prop oif the calibre of Thiomas Du Toit if he does not have the power behind him,
I'd add to that Ali.
5. Most bonus points in the Prem at 6 compensates for the losses.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
5. Most bonus points in the Prem at 6 compensates for the losses.
Think I prob should hold off til this time next week to start judging the strategy so far after we have had 4 home and 4 away games.
As it stands we are likely to be 4th after today and all that gets you at the end of the season is a likely v long day away to sarries.
Let's hope the squad is still fresh come the second half of the season due to the approach and we are well placed to get top 3.
Delighted that griffin, richards, TCS, harris and hennessey have all had some involvement on a proactive basis in match day squads already this season. That will serve us well.
Conscious I am being harsh and greedy wanting top 3 but do think we have a v strong squad, a v strong coaching team , we are v well backed by bruce in every way and for once we don't have a huge injury list. If not now then when.....
As it stands we are likely to be 4th after today and all that gets you at the end of the season is a likely v long day away to sarries.
Let's hope the squad is still fresh come the second half of the season due to the approach and we are well placed to get top 3.
Delighted that griffin, richards, TCS, harris and hennessey have all had some involvement on a proactive basis in match day squads already this season. That will serve us well.
Conscious I am being harsh and greedy wanting top 3 but do think we have a v strong squad, a v strong coaching team , we are v well backed by bruce in every way and for once we don't have a huge injury list. If not now then when.....
I thought it was an extremely encouraging performance.
Let's see what happens over the next couple of rounds, as the whole top half of the table play each other, some twice (us, Sale and Quins).
Regarding the match, thought we were a bit unlucky with their first try. Roebuck should have been penalised for his tackle on Russell, they get the scrum from it, then the penalty and score off the back of it.
Griffin looked quality when he came on.
Ojomoh was excellent in defence, like a different player this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:26:21:16:05 by by.
Let's see what happens over the next couple of rounds, as the whole top half of the table play each other, some twice (us, Sale and Quins).
Regarding the match, thought we were a bit unlucky with their first try. Roebuck should have been penalised for his tackle on Russell, they get the scrum from it, then the penalty and score off the back of it.
Griffin looked quality when he came on.
Ojomoh was excellent in defence, like a different player this season.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:26:21:16:05 by by.
I am disappointed we have slipped down to 4th, Ii guess that is what happens when you rotate and don't play the strongest side. Need to step it up this weekend and secure the full 5 points
I wonder: could there is any correlation between rotation and the number of injuries we have. Playing the A team every week has its down side and anyway who is to say who's in the A team if the B team don't get a chance to prove they are the A team. Who knows how good Butt would be now if he had been given more of a chance last year.
Quote:hemington
I wonder: could there is any correlation between rotation and the number of injuries we have. Playing the A team every week has its down side and anyway who is to say who's in the A team if the B team don't get a chance to prove they are the A team. Who knows how good Butt would be now if he had been given more of a chance last year.
^this. I don't know about specific Bath players but it feels like even by Premiership standards you've had a lot of injuries in recent seasons. This season you seem not as badly impacted as most. Rotation could certainly be part of that especially for the less durable players like Underhill and Barbeary who will probably take a lot of management to have available for the end of the season when it really counts. Good work by Bath.
Quote:nick holder
I am disappointed we have slipped down to 4th, I guess that is what happens when you rotate and don't play the strongest side. Need to step it up this weekend and secure the full 5 points
The league is just so close teams will jump up or down several places in a single weekend. There is plenty of time left in the season to secure a top 4 finish.
Many of the full rests have manditory anyway for those who played in the RWC, others have been enforced by injuries or have been common sense to avoid overplaying. I am personally full on board with this approach to the start of the season if it means that we have full squads (or close to) available when we get to the pointy end of the season.
If nothing else its an improvement on previous seasons, so that is positive.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:hemington
I wonder: could there is any correlation between rotation and the number of injuries we have. Playing the A team every week has its down side and anyway who is to say who's in the A team if the B team don't get a chance to prove they are the A team. Who knows how good Butt would be now if he had been given more of a chance last year.
Skivington at Glaws has admitted their use of same XV or XXIII in first half of last season helped them to flirt with top 4 at Xmas but caused injuries that helped them finish bottom but one by May. Looking back he has a point, but does not explain their position now !!!!!!!
Our deeper squad & sensible management by JVG is paying dividends. He also does not seem to have “favourites” who get picked whether on form or not 👍
This season is brutal, as there are few breaks a couple of key injuries could ruin your season.
Don't think many other teams have rotated like us, maybe Exeter?
Bristol and Gloucester have been forced to go full strength due to injuries. Saracen's and Tigers have put their strongest available side out, but were obviously missing internationals to begin with so some rotation. Similar story with Quins and Saints but less internationals?
Don't think many other teams have rotated like us, maybe Exeter?
Bristol and Gloucester have been forced to go full strength due to injuries. Saracen's and Tigers have put their strongest available side out, but were obviously missing internationals to begin with so some rotation. Similar story with Quins and Saints but less internationals?
Quote:nigewingQuote:hemington
I wonder: could there is any correlation between rotation and the number of injuries we have. Playing the A team every week has its down side and anyway who is to say who's in the A team if the B team don't get a chance to prove they are the A team. Who knows how good Butt would be now if he had been given more of a chance last year.
Skivington at Glaws has admitted their use of same XV or XXIII in first half of last season helped them to flirt with top 4 at Xmas but caused injuries that helped them finish bottom but one by May. Looking back he has a point, but does not explain their position now !!!!!!!
Our deeper squad & sensible management by JVG is paying dividends. He also does not seem to have “favourites” who get picked whether on form or not 👍
Very true, he is a proper coach, detached from the squad with a clear plan and style of playing yet engages with the team.
"Ruaridh McConnochie is set for another extended spell on the sidelines"? - [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Good to see some 180s on JVG. He always looked a good coach and a couple of seasons in has had the chance to build a really good team.
I was fortunate enough to meet JVG recently and exchange a few words. He came across as charming, humble and very appreciative of the club's history and fans. Impressive chap.
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