Bath
TAKING THE BATH RUGBY “TRAIN” TO CARDIFF
JvG
By Devonport Boy
December 14 2023
Johann van Graan has often used a train journey as a metaphor to describe how he sees Bath’s progress under his leadership and it’s a very apt one as we head to Cardiff for the second round of this year’s Champions Cup journey. Last week we stood up to the Ulstermen with a brilliant second half display at the Rec but can we disarm Cardiff at the Arms Park?
Anglo – Welsh games like this one have a bit of an “old school” feel about them. Supporters “of a certain age” remember epic games in the past, especially during the Bath glory years in the 80s and 90s. The recent history might give a bit of a cause for concern, though. Since 2014 Bath and Cardiff have played 4 times and on each occasion the result has gone to the home team. The most recent occasion was the pre-season game in September 2021 when despite tries by Beno Obano and Richard de Carpentier, Cardiff won by 25 – 14, a scoreline aided by the boot of one Rhys Priestland who showed his old Bath teammates and supporters just what they would miss that season.
And it’s not just games against Cardiff that have proven difficult for Bath at the Arms Park. Many of us will clearly remember the 2014 Challenge Cup final held there which we lost 16 -30 to Northampton. The debate about why a clearly injured George Ford played that day instead of a fully fit Gavin Henson with a point to prove still crops up from time to time! So, there are a lot of recent ghosts that need to be laid to rest this weekend in Cardiff. A number of the players remain the same from that game in 2021, but from the supporters’ perspective there is an entirely different feel about the Bath squad who are starting to really deliver in 23/24. We kept the faith when times were hard and now we’re getting our belief back!
So, how do the teams look going into this game? Bath of course made a hugely encouraging start to their Champions Cup campaign last weekend at the Rec. It’s often said that winning your home games in this competition is crucial and taking 5 points is a great start. I enjoyed Beno Obano’s post-match interview. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him that “pumped” – but in all the excitement of the win he still reflected on things that didn’t go quite right and which will need fixing. He clearly thinks there is more to come and that’s hugely encouraging for us and, hopefully, worrying for our opponents. We saw some exhilarating backs play in that game, from Ulster as well as Bath, but the battle up front was crucial. A Bath player once told me that playing in the Champions Cup is very close at times to Test Match level and it can’t have been far off that last Saturday, on a revitalised Rec pitch which was good enough to allow it to happen after some horrible weather. So a good foundation was laid and a win in Cardiff might very well be enough to progress to the next stage.
Points in the bank are everything at this stage; we certainly don’t want to be going to Toulouse in January needing a win! Cardiff certainly found out how difficult it can be last weekend with Toulouse scoring 7 tries to win 52-7. A hard day at the office for a young Cardiff side but they exerted some pressure of their own with McKenzie Martin scoring their try. They will surely bounce back from that and at home, on an artificial pitch that Bath arenot familiar with, we can be sure that they will make it as difficult as possible for the boys in BB&W. But as JvGpromised, Bath are becoming very hard to beat and given the opportunity to get onto the front foot I think we’ll win this one, but I also think it will be close.
JvG has always said that he trusts the entire squad and trying to predict the likely team gets more difficult week by week as our strength in depth increases. It’s hard to read his mind on this one. On the one hand he may opt to play pretty much the same team that convincingly beat Ulster last week (but with Quins at home next weekend in the Prem I think that’s unlikely). I think he’ll make significant changes. One of our COML colleagues, HK890, suggested on another thread that the team might look like this and I think he might be right, injuries etc permitting.
1. Du Toit
2. Annett
3. Griffin
4. Ewels
5. Van Velze
6. Richards
7. Underhill
8. Coetzee
9. Spencer
10. Bailey
11. Butt
12. Ojomoh
13. Lawrence
14. Cokansiga
15. TDG
16. Faiva
17. Schoeman
18. Jonker
19. Roux
20. Bayliss
21. Carr-Smith
22. Harris
23. Hennessy
I think that might be about right. There’s a good mixture of explosive talent and experience there which should get the job done. Whoever gets selected in the end, it’s going to be a cracking game, in the spirit of all those Anglo-Welsh encounters of the past.
COYB
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StumbleuponTAKING THE BATH RUGBY “TRAIN” TO CARDIFF
Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 14/12/2023 08:42
14/12/2023 08:42
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:19:22:15:54 by CoochieCoo.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:19:22:15:54 by CoochieCoo.
Good shout DB. Thank you
Don't we have an artificial pitch at Farleigh House - if so hopefully it won't be too unfamiliar. Time for the squad to put their hands up and show our strength in depth. Happy days
Don't we have an artificial pitch at Farleigh House - if so hopefully it won't be too unfamiliar. Time for the squad to put their hands up and show our strength in depth. Happy days
Great stuff Devonport Boy, I'll be there having invested only £26 for a ticket! Tickets are virtually sold out. Bath are 1-3 on if anyone bets.
Point to note: It’s rare that Joe Cokanasiga meets his physical equal on the pitch but on Saturday that’s exactly what will happen. Mason Grady (21) is 1.96m and 112 kg (Our Joes is 1.93m and the same weight at 112 kg.) He is usually a centre but has been filling in on the wing to extremely good effect recently.
Agree with the core of the team you picked, though I think Finn might be on the bench just in case.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Point to note: It’s rare that Joe Cokanasiga meets his physical equal on the pitch but on Saturday that’s exactly what will happen. Mason Grady (21) is 1.96m and 112 kg (Our Joes is 1.93m and the same weight at 112 kg.) He is usually a centre but has been filling in on the wing to extremely good effect recently.
Agree with the core of the team you picked, though I think Finn might be on the bench just in case.
Not sure how you have 3 posts but only 1 view, something might be up there?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I'm certainly in the 'old school' camp. Vividly remember Bath playing a full strength Cardiff including Gareth Edwards down on the Rec circa 74
Bath win lineout on own 5 metre line. From under own posts Horton chips over the Cardiff line, regathers, sprints to the halfway line and just before their full back he passes behind his back to Mike Beese on the scissors who goes under the posts
Rec goes bonkers
Some of that please Finn and Cam!
Bath win lineout on own 5 metre line. From under own posts Horton chips over the Cardiff line, regathers, sprints to the halfway line and just before their full back he passes behind his back to Mike Beese on the scissors who goes under the posts
Rec goes bonkers
Some of that please Finn and Cam!
Quote:OutsideBath
Don’t agree with Bailey starting, it has to be Russell at 10.
Why not, Bailey has done all you can ask for ?
Sat behind Russell then taken his opportunity nailing his kick which Russell had taken himself off of
Give Bailey a chance to play with a dominant pack
Quote:HK890Quote:OutsideBath
Don’t agree with Bailey starting, it has to be Russell at 10.
Why not, Bailey has done all you can ask for ?
Sat behind Russell then taken his opportunity nailing his kick which Russell had taken himself off of
Give Bailey a chance to play with a dominant pack
This game is too important not to play our best 10 that's why.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:HK890Quote:OutsideBath
Don’t agree with Bailey starting, it has to be Russell at 10.
Why not, Bailey has done all you can ask for ?
Sat behind Russell then taken his opportunity nailing his kick which Russell had taken himself off of
Give Bailey a chance to play with a dominant pack
This game is too important not to play our best 10 that's why.
Exactly
You do realise that Bath are 1-3 on to win this game, Cardiff are without key players through injury and suspension (Ellis Jenkins), the side will be full of youngsters, they couldn't afford a fly half before the season and they lost 52-7 to Toulouse last week. Its also on a 4G pitch, (increased injury risk).
To suggest Bailey needs to stand aside for Finn is completely misunderstanding this game and the current state of Welsh rugby! The important game is Quins at home, that's where you need Finn Russell.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
To suggest Bailey needs to stand aside for Finn is completely misunderstanding this game and the current state of Welsh rugby! The important game is Quins at home, that's where you need Finn Russell.
Quote:HK890Quote:OutsideBath
Don’t agree with Bailey starting, it has to be Russell at 10.
Why not, Bailey has done all you can ask for ?
Sat behind Russell then taken his opportunity nailing his kick which Russell had taken himself off of
Give Bailey a chance to play with a dominant pack
Completely agree.
He'll never get better if he never plays and will possibly lose confidence and get worse. if Finn is on the bench he can always come on. We don't want to break him.
Agree H, Bailey is a quality player, it’s just that Finn is at a higher level. If it criticism of his kicking we need to remember that Finn turned the kicking duties over to Spencer last game.
Bailey held us together behind a dysfunctional pack for over a season. Learning 10 is hard at top level, he can run pass tackle and was a very decent kicker.
He is still only 22. Now is not the time to protect him, that’s not what he needs.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Bailey held us together behind a dysfunctional pack for over a season. Learning 10 is hard at top level, he can run pass tackle and was a very decent kicker.
He is still only 22. Now is not the time to protect him, that’s not what he needs.
Personally think this selection is a tricky one - if we are serious about this competition we cannot afford to slip up and take Cardiff lightly - it is clear they are targeting their home games and I fully expect a much improved performance from what is a great and proud club/region.
On the other hand we need to manage our star players and trust the squad - Finn and more importantly Ben Spencer need to have a rest at some point with some huge games coming up such as Quins and Racing.
I think JvG will probably give Orlando Bailey a run and probably Louis Schreuder this weekend and Max O in place of Cam Redpath and a few others.
My XXIII would look like:
Tom DG
Joe C
Ollie Lawrence
Max O
Will Muir
Orlando Bailey
Louis Schreuder
Juan Schoeman
Niall Annett
Thomas Du Toit
Elliott Stooke
GVV (Capt)
Chris Cloete
Jaco Coetzee
Ewan Richards
Faiva
Beno Obano
Griffin
McNally/Roux
Merigan
TCS
Harris
Butt.
On the other hand we need to manage our star players and trust the squad - Finn and more importantly Ben Spencer need to have a rest at some point with some huge games coming up such as Quins and Racing.
I think JvG will probably give Orlando Bailey a run and probably Louis Schreuder this weekend and Max O in place of Cam Redpath and a few others.
My XXIII would look like:
Tom DG
Joe C
Ollie Lawrence
Max O
Will Muir
Orlando Bailey
Louis Schreuder
Juan Schoeman
Niall Annett
Thomas Du Toit
Elliott Stooke
GVV (Capt)
Chris Cloete
Jaco Coetzee
Ewan Richards
Faiva
Beno Obano
Griffin
McNally/Roux
Merigan
TCS
Harris
Butt.
I think Bailey, Shreuder and Mojo is a step too far, I think BS or FR but not both. I'd put Tom Carr Smith in front of Schreuder but he was playing last night.
Bailey and Schreuder didn't work last time out.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:14:15:18:57 by shipwrecked.
Bailey and Schreuder didn't work last time out.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:14:15:18:57 by shipwrecked.
Quote:hemington
He'll never get better if he never plays and will possibly lose confidence and get worse. if Finn is on the bench he can always come on. We don't want to break him.
+ 1
Play Bailey (especially having read SW’s insight on Cardiff. I have a strong feeling that OB is going to take people by surprise as and when he gets the start - he has already put in plenty of very good performances for us - now he is a year older, has a dominant pack in front of him, much more confident backs outside him, and can only have grown from being exposed to the Finn effect. Last week’s touchline conversion felt like a little microcosm of all that. Would also be very much in keeping with JVG’s selection and rotation strategy to date. MoM incoming.
I’d play Bailey, with Finn in the bench. But the problem with playing Bailey is if he doesn’t get to play with Spencer. Think you can rotate one of Finn and Ben but not both.
That theory could also be extended to playing Bailey behind a less than first choice pack. Of course, some picks are more marginal (TDT or Stuart, Barbeary or Coetzee) but Schoe, Jonker, GJVV, Richards, Cloete ALL start, then it’s a less than optimal hand for Bailey to play. Not saying they’re bad players at all, but I think rotating both half backs AND the pack is a big risk and a tad unfair, maybe on all of them but definitely on the 10.
Personally, I’d play 9 Ben 10 Bailey. And in the pack, swap only those who can be swapped without a big drop off, so 3 TDT 4 Roux/Mcnally 8 Coetzee. And then aim to get the game won and our prized assets (Obano, Ewels, Underhill, Spencer, Lawrence) off after 50 minutes.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
That theory could also be extended to playing Bailey behind a less than first choice pack. Of course, some picks are more marginal (TDT or Stuart, Barbeary or Coetzee) but Schoe, Jonker, GJVV, Richards, Cloete ALL start, then it’s a less than optimal hand for Bailey to play. Not saying they’re bad players at all, but I think rotating both half backs AND the pack is a big risk and a tad unfair, maybe on all of them but definitely on the 10.
Personally, I’d play 9 Ben 10 Bailey. And in the pack, swap only those who can be swapped without a big drop off, so 3 TDT 4 Roux/Mcnally 8 Coetzee. And then aim to get the game won and our prized assets (Obano, Ewels, Underhill, Spencer, Lawrence) off after 50 minutes.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Whilst I acknowledge the random nature of injuries I do not understand why we need to "rest" backs in the context of a game a week.
"All" the backs do is a load of running around..........
Seriously I would play Bailey but only because he is not going to get any better by running in training and not playing in a match
Good match review......
"All" the backs do is a load of running around..........
Seriously I would play Bailey but only because he is not going to get any better by running in training and not playing in a match
Good match review......
Quote:shipwrecked
You do realise that Bath are 1-3 on to win this game, Cardiff are without key players through injury and suspension (Ellis Jenkins), the side will be full of youngsters, they couldn't afford a fly half before the season and they lost 52-7 to Toulouse last week. Its also on a 4G pitch, (increased injury risk).
To suggest Bailey needs to stand aside for Finn is completely misunderstanding this game and the current state of Welsh rugby! The important game is Quins at home, that's where you need Finn Russell.
What exactly am I misunderstanding about this game SW? Do you not agree it's a must win game to boost our chances of qualifying for the last 16?
I absolutely agree Quins is an important game and I'd play Russell in that as well.
You're right I know little about Welsh regions as I'm not interested in them, but after a hammering last weekend Cardiff will be a dangerous opponent regardless of who they have available.
Bailey will have opportunities later in the season (Tigers/Quins away are obvious ones for me) or perhaps if we get a game won he can come on for the last 20 mins to finish things off.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
You do realise that Bath are 1-3 on to win this game, Cardiff are without key players through injury and suspension (Ellis Jenkins), the side will be full of youngsters, they couldn't afford a fly half before the season and they lost 52-7 to Toulouse last week. Its also on a 4G pitch, (increased injury risk).
To suggest Bailey needs to stand aside for Finn is completely misunderstanding this game and the current state of Welsh rugby! The important game is Quins at home, that's where you need Finn Russell.
What exactly am I misunderstanding about this game SW? Do you not agree it's a must win game to boost our chances of qualifying for the last 16?
I absolutely agree Quins is an important game and I'd play Russell in that as well.
You're right I know little about Welsh regions as I'm not interested in them, but after a hammering last weekend Cardiff will be a dangerous opponent regardless of who they have available.
Bailey will have opportunities later in the season (Tigers/Quins away are obvious ones for me) or perhaps if we get a game won he can come on for the last 20 mins to finish things off.
Basically that we need Finn Russell to win the game against a side weakened by injury and suspensions. We are not facing the likes of Talaupe Faletau recovering from a broken Arm Or Ellis Jenkins (suspended) they have an all up squad of 38. Gethin Jenkins the defence coach won't be at the game at the weekend because they can only afford to pay him 2 days a week.
There was a churn of 16 at the end of last season and the side desperately lacks cohesion and experience with many youngsters coming through.
The experience essentially lies with Tomos Williams at 9 and Josh Adams on the wing their best hope is Mason Grady a centre on the wing. (Basically massive).
Don't get me wrong they play with fire and passion but as Sam Warburton said a few days ago it will take 5 years to rebuild. Latest news is George North is off to France.
We really don't need all our star players for a win that's my point.
P.S. there is a small chance we might bump into Gabriel Hamer Webb from the bench as he has a short term contract with Cardiff.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Think you have to back your squad for all sorts of reasons. Player rotation keeps players fit and fresh. It also keeps them interested and shows the coaches have faith in the squad. Bailey is an excellent, local prospect. What message does it give if we tell him that as long as FR is here OB will get 20 minute cameos or games we're not prioritising where we're making wholesale changes? He won't stay long with that approach. Under Hooper we played the same players until they were injured and when forced to make changes it wasn't surprising that what little continuity and understanding we had went out of the window. The sad demise of the A League, which we were as guilty as anyone of not valuing, is a big cause of this problem of how to give players meaningful rugby.
Wonderful as George Ford was for us, his insistence on playing every game and never being subbed was fairly counter-productive in the end. Finn seems entirely devoid of that kind of selfishness or ego - another reason to like him.
The best thing about the team right now with Finn is that we're not asking him to be the Messiah. He's a great player improving the team, not needing to be the team.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:14:23:08:05 by hasta.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:14:23:08:05 by hasta.
Couldn't resist it ..... so sorry!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Whilst I acknowledge the random nature of injuries I do not understand why we need to "rest" backs in the context of a game a week.
"All" the backs do is a load of running around..........
Not sure if serious...
[quote shipwrecked]Couldn't resist it ..... so sorry!
Somebody had to do it SW!
My wife’s taken to referring to Mr Russell as the “Finnball Wizard”. Very apt, but that song’s a proper ear worm, now firmly embedded in my brain and I’m having trouble un- hearing it!
“how do you think he does it…I don’t know,
What makes him so good?”
Somebody had to do it SW!
My wife’s taken to referring to Mr Russell as the “Finnball Wizard”. Very apt, but that song’s a proper ear worm, now firmly embedded in my brain and I’m having trouble un- hearing it!
“how do you think he does it…I don’t know,
What makes him so good?”
Great nickname and it would be great to hear The Who blasting out from the Rec rather than Neil Diamond for a change.
"Great nickname and it would be great to hear The Who blasting out from the Rec rather than Neil Diamond for a change".
This x 100
Imagine the build up music of the opening of "Who are you"? Or "Baba O'Reilly"
Heaven
This x 100
Imagine the build up music of the opening of "Who are you"? Or "Baba O'Reilly"
Heaven
Weekly attempt at getting the squad wildly wring.
Think I would go:
Harris, coko, lawrence, mojo, butt, bailey, spencer, schoeman, annett, stuart, mcnally, gj vv, coetzee, cloete, barbeary
Bench: faiva, du toit, griffin, richards, underhill, TCS, hennessey, tdg
About 10 changes to the first xv from ulster but still a good team with some impact off the bench.
Give beno, dunn, ewels, stooke , reid, finn a week off before quins. They have all played a lot of rugby this season. Go fully loaded next week- big game and a tough one.
Harris / mojo to cover 10.
doubtful TCS and hennessey will be involved having played for the uni on weds.
If roux and bayliss are available that would be a big bonus and would be keen to integrate them back into the 23.
Think I would go:
Harris, coko, lawrence, mojo, butt, bailey, spencer, schoeman, annett, stuart, mcnally, gj vv, coetzee, cloete, barbeary
Bench: faiva, du toit, griffin, richards, underhill, TCS, hennessey, tdg
About 10 changes to the first xv from ulster but still a good team with some impact off the bench.
Give beno, dunn, ewels, stooke , reid, finn a week off before quins. They have all played a lot of rugby this season. Go fully loaded next week- big game and a tough one.
Harris / mojo to cover 10.
doubtful TCS and hennessey will be involved having played for the uni on weds.
If roux and bayliss are available that would be a big bonus and would be keen to integrate them back into the 23.
Quote:Devonport Boy
My wife’s taken to referring to Mr Russell as the “Finnball Wizard”. Very apt, but that song’s a proper ear worm, now firmly embedded in my brain and I’m having trouble un- hearing it!
“how do you think he does it…I don’t know,
What makes him so good?”
Genius!
Bathonian 80
Semi- serious.............but underneath a valid comment.
Transform the game by having no substitutes other than injury replacements in the front row.
Players would in weeks (months) change body shape as they would have to last 80 minutes and not 50.
Squads would be reduced from 45 to say 35.
Economics of Rugby clubs transformed
Players would have to get used to playing many more games..............hence my comments above
Semi- serious.............but underneath a valid comment.
Transform the game by having no substitutes other than injury replacements in the front row.
Players would in weeks (months) change body shape as they would have to last 80 minutes and not 50.
Squads would be reduced from 45 to say 35.
Economics of Rugby clubs transformed
Players would have to get used to playing many more games..............hence my comments above
I am in the Bailey camp.
He can only get better with experience and we need him sharp should Finn suffer injury - and in just over a month- for 6N.
PG
He can only get better with experience and we need him sharp should Finn suffer injury - and in just over a month- for 6N.
PG
Quote:P G Tips
I am in the Bailey camp.
He can only get better with experience and we need him sharp should Finn suffer injury - and in just over a month- for 6N.
PG
Will Finn miss any Bath games during 6N?
Bath Rugby XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Hame Faiva, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Elliott Stooke, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Replacements: 16 Hame Faiva, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Elliott Stooke, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
And the team is…
Bath Rugby XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Hame Faiva, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Elliott Stooke, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
That’s stronger than I thought with Quins next weekend but I’m happy with that. It looks like Quins have gone strong vs Toulouse so hopefully it’ll balance out. Fingers crossed for no 4G pitch injuries!
COYB
Bath Rugby XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Miles Reid, 7 Chris Cloete, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Hame Faiva, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Elliott Stooke, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Jaco Coetzee
That’s stronger than I thought with Quins next weekend but I’m happy with that. It looks like Quins have gone strong vs Toulouse so hopefully it’ll balance out. Fingers crossed for no 4G pitch injuries!
COYB
Cardiff Rugby: Cam Winnett; Josh Adams, Rey Lee-Lo, Ben Thomas, Mason Grady; Tinus de Beer, Tomos Williams; Corey Domachowski, Liam Belcher (capt), Keiron Assiratti, Rory Thornton, Teddy Williams, Alex Mann, Lucas de la Rua, Mackenzie Martin.
Replacements: Evan Lloyd, Rhys Carre, Rhys Litterick, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ellis Bevan, Willis Halaholo, Gabriel Hamer-Webb.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Replacements: Evan Lloyd, Rhys Carre, Rhys Litterick, Josh Turnbull, Alun Lawrence, Ellis Bevan, Willis Halaholo, Gabriel Hamer-Webb.
Quote:Devonport Boy
That’s stronger than I thought with Quins next weekend but I’m happy with that. It looks like Quins have gone strong vs Toulouse so hopefully it’ll balance out. Fingers crossed for no 4G pitch injuries!
COYB
Completely agree, seems like overkill but I’m delighted to see Finn, Cam, Alfie et al. In person.
Also agree on the 4G injuries I suspect we will see protective strapping in abundance.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:15:12:15:25 by shipwrecked.
Interesting. JvG the Tinkerman chooses not to tinker very much. Underhill having a break, which is good to see, and terrific Roux is back in the mix. Having him back and Stooke in the ranks will be huge for us given the relentless fixture list.
Don’t know many of the Cardiff lineup so a bit wary, but hoping we get the job done by 50 minutes and get the likes of Beno, Ben and Finn off. Should be a fun Saturday night’s entertainment. Better than Strictly…
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Don’t know many of the Cardiff lineup so a bit wary, but hoping we get the job done by 50 minutes and get the likes of Beno, Ben and Finn off. Should be a fun Saturday night’s entertainment. Better than Strictly…
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Wow much stronger 23 than I was expecting with some really big games to come - take it Ben Spencer and the management are not expecting him to get an International call up and rest during 6 nations - I love Finn and everything he does, however I do feel it was an opportunity for Bailey to start even with Finn on the bench if required- JvG going for win in a big way - that bench is seriously strong and powerful.
Hope the officials are up to the contest.
Come on Bath.
Hope the officials are up to the contest.
Come on Bath.
My only concerns with that team is that it's probably one of our more light-weight second row pairings, and I do think that Miles Reid has played a lot of rugby. But given the beef on the bench, shouldn't be too bad!
Quote:Rested against Sale 3 weeks ago wasn't he?hasta
I do think that Miles Reid has played a lot of rugby.
So accumulating, but has had a week off recently
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:15:13:32:36 by Quel Carreleur.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Bathonian 80
Semi- serious.............but underneath a valid comment.
Far be it from me to defend backline players but they do a bit more than just "run around".
Quote:Transform the game by having no substitutes other than injury replacements in the front row.
So in a sport that's already struggling, you want to tell 1/4 of a 23 that their services are no longer required. Get rid of a quarter of rugby players, got it.
To say nothing of the entire point of rugby is it being for all shapes and sizes.
Quote:Players would in weeks (months) change body shape as they would have to last 80 minutes and not 50.
At least half a starting XV already do last 80.
Quote:Squads would be reduced from 45 to say 35.
And what happens to those 10 lost players?
Quote:Ali1969
Hope the officials are up to the contest.
Come on Bath.
So do I ! Scottish officials with Sam Grove-White as Sir
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Quote:hasta
My only concerns with that team is that it's probably one of our more light-weight second row pairings, and I do think that Miles Reid has played a lot of rugby. But given the beef on the bench, shouldn't be too bad!
Hopefully that team is strong enough to get the job done, then wins for Toulouse and Racing 92 will make for the perfect weekend.
[quote]Players would in weeks (months) change body shape as they would have to last 80 minutes and not 50.[/quote]
At least half a starting XV already do last 80.[/quote]
Exactly, I think that this is a false view on front rows. Yes lots are swapped out for the 'bomb squad' approach but just as many last 70+ (Beno has been subbed at around 70 on 4 occasions this season). Genge played the full 80 vs Bath IIRC? I don't think that body shapes would change hugely, they would still be massive men.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
At least half a starting XV already do last 80.[/quote]
Exactly, I think that this is a false view on front rows. Yes lots are swapped out for the 'bomb squad' approach but just as many last 70+ (Beno has been subbed at around 70 on 4 occasions this season). Genge played the full 80 vs Bath IIRC? I don't think that body shapes would change hugely, they would still be massive men.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
A much stronger team than I was expecting, to be honest I would have made a number of changes and brought in Bailey.
If this team had gone away to sale or Northampton I think we would have won and the team that played both of those games I think could have beaten Cardiff. (Cue a defeat tomorrow with our strongest team).
I'm not sure we have squad rotation quite right so far this year. It's nice that this is my only criticism of the season so far
If this team had gone away to sale or Northampton I think we would have won and the team that played both of those games I think could have beaten Cardiff. (Cue a defeat tomorrow with our strongest team).
I'm not sure we have squad rotation quite right so far this year. It's nice that this is my only criticism of the season so far
I would hesitate to make a criticism but I would have liked Orlando to have had a run out for this one
I’d be totally happy for Bailey to get a good amount of time on the pitch once victory and most likely qualification for the knockout rounds is assured. We haven’t made the knockouts since 2015, this is be best opportunity we have had since then and is no time for wholesale rotation.
Other reason to play Finn and the rest of them is so they get another game together. If we want to go deep at the business end of the season, the half backs and centres need to be bang on the same page, so the more times they play together as a unit, the better.
It is coming together - but the ceiling is so high that we should give them every opportunity to gel and form those instinctive partnerships that might be the difference later in the competition(s).
( obviously, flip side of that is Finn getting injured in the semi final and Orlando has barely played a minute…. )
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
It is coming together - but the ceiling is so high that we should give them every opportunity to gel and form those instinctive partnerships that might be the difference later in the competition(s).
( obviously, flip side of that is Finn getting injured in the semi final and Orlando has barely played a minute…. )
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
( obviously, flip side of that is Finn getting injured in the semi final and Orlando has barely played a minute…. )
Exactly! And then find OB has gone somewhere else.
There is such a huge difference between our halfbacks & their replacements that could be a bit of a problem for rotation. They are not just exceptional players but provide direction & leadership a plenty. Maybe the aim is to get well ahead in games & then replace them. The trouble is that as good as we are we aren’t the All Blacks & there aren’t many matches when that is likely to happen!
Should be a great game to this evening. See Cardiff team I don’t think anything else but a really healthy scoreline is acceptable. Cardiff gone virtually second choice, still slightly frustrated to not see Bailey. Not going to complain having Finn Russell starting but it seems a missed opportunity.
Fingers crossed things wrapped up early so we can see Bailey get some good minutes.
6/2 split is interesting with double locks. Doesn’t quite fit the Pacey game I’m expecting.
Fingers crossed things wrapped up early so we can see Bailey get some good minutes.
6/2 split is interesting with double locks. Doesn’t quite fit the Pacey game I’m expecting.
No not second choice at all, that’s all they have!
Who else were you expecting?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Who else were you expecting?
We are far too sloppy atm.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Is that the second soft pen from Cloete?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Cloete plays right on the edge, which I like, but he does give away a lot of penalties.
We look great in attack. Softer in defence than we’ve been in a long while.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
We look great in attack. Softer in defence than we’ve been in a long while.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
This is easily the least depressing Bath squad in many years. I watch them now with something akin to joy.
Desperate affairs require desperate measures.
Horatio Nelson
Horatio Nelson
I suspect the halftime chat will be heavily fixated on our frankly woeful defensive performance
Quote:yes our defence has been a bit bobbins.Toast and Marmite
I suspect the halftime chat will be heavily fixated on our frankly woeful defensive performance
Horatio Nelson
Are Bath doing a buy one get one free for tries this week?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Cloete really needs to listen. When a ref shouts 7, it's unlikely he is approving of what you are doing.
An incredible game so far. Both teams look like they will score every time they attack. I think we may have underestimated them a bit despite the strong side we have picked
An incredible game so far. Both teams look like they will score every time they attack. I think we may have underestimated them a bit despite the strong side we have picked
Quote:WasBBWBaaBaa
"Great nickname and it would be great to hear The Who blasting out from the Rec rather than Neil Diamond for a change".
This x 100
Imagine the build up music of the opening of "Who are you"? Or "Baba O'Reilly"
Heaven
This is bang on the money. Why on earth ND has been adopted by Bath, PRL et al is beyond me...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Most inaccurate we’ve been in a long time. We’ve been really quite good in attack, but could have a couple more scores and dropped balls and defensive lapses are just letting them back in.
Quins will hammer us if we play like this- but got to put this lot from over the Bridge away first! My hope to get our stars off after 50 minutes looks unlikely!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quins will hammer us if we play like this- but got to put this lot from over the Bridge away first! My hope to get our stars off after 50 minutes looks unlikely!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Infuriating. They are having to do so little to get through
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Nice try from Cardiff
Cloete can’t make his tackle on Williams and very nice offload.
32 - 24
Cloete can’t make his tackle on Williams and very nice offload.
32 - 24
Sloppiest performance this season?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Stooke and Coetzee for McNally and Cloete feel like good and necessary changes.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Cloete hooked at 47 minutes suspect we might see a change in momentum now with Coetzee on. Big last quarter
Quote:Yup, really disappointed with thoae two this seasondr.bath1865
Stooke and Coetzee for McNally and Cloete feel like good and necessary changes.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Really need a better lineout coach
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
The watch back on Monday needs to be tagged 18 because it’s a horror show of errors
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Quote:my issue isnt the subsequent maul, its the auccess rate of securing rhe balldr.bath1865
…just scored from a lineout.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Job done boys, and I guess the fact Bath can find a way to win even when off the boil is the biggest plus
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Good win in the end lots of work ons
Can pretty confidently say Cloete and McNally off for Coetzee and Stooke won us that game. Coetzee so abrasive and big carries.
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
Can pretty confidently say Cloete and McNally off for Coetzee and Stooke won us that game. Coetzee so abrasive and big carries.
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
Exhausting, but I always thought we'd win and we did. Very good bench, good composure.
Some players (TdG, Cloete) showing up a lack of match practice and an overeagerness. Notable how less powerful our scrum is when it's McNally/Ewels in the row.
Reid my motm.
Some players (TdG, Cloete) showing up a lack of match practice and an overeagerness. Notable how less powerful our scrum is when it's McNally/Ewels in the row.
Reid my motm.
Quote:hasta
Exhausting, but I always thought we'd win and we did. Very good bench, good composure.
Some players (TdG, Cloete) showing up a lack of match practice and an overeagerness. Notable how less powerful our scrum is when it's McNally/Ewels in the row.
Reid my motm.
Agreed TDG eager at times but his breaks were very nice and some lovely passes to make breaks. Hopefully he’s allowed to build up now.
Cloete just poor and fustrating to see players like Richards and Staddon miss out. Some very good young players for Cardiff today especially Mackenzie Martin.
Agree Reid was once again class big hits and breaks.
Quote:HK890
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
He didn’t get that many minutes, but it was considerably more than zero
Quote:9215Quote:HK890
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
He didn’t get that many minutes, but it was considerably more than zero
No he didn't, he never came on. Maybe could have at 15.
Quote:hastaQuote:9215Quote:HK890
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
He didn’t get that many minutes, but it was considerably more than zero
No he didn't, he never came on. Maybe could have at 15.
Who was it playing full back when TdG came off then?
Landy came on for TDG for last 5. Same time as Schroeder and Roux. According to BBC website anyway. The only time I saw him.was with Finn as the final whistle went.
A third win on the bounce (all with 30+ points scored) is excellent. The performance today was awful in parts, very good in others. The yards after contacts stats will be pleasing. The missed tackles and handling errors, less so.
Let's hope it serves as a kick up the backside and a reminder we have a long way to go to compete with the best.
Hopefully Toulouse give Quins a bruising fane tomorrow. The extra days rest is in our favour.
Let's hope it serves as a kick up the backside and a reminder we have a long way to go to compete with the best.
Hopefully Toulouse give Quins a bruising fane tomorrow. The extra days rest is in our favour.
Quote:Rokobilly
Landy came on for TDG for last 5. Same time as Schroeder and Roux. According to BBC website anyway. The only time I saw him.was with Finn as the final whistle went.
Oh right yes looking back you’re right. Didn’t notice it, still a shame none the less
Quote:The point of having him there is to back up Finn, I expect he would have got plenty more time if we had put Cardiff away by half time, but our defence was too poor and the game was still in the balance until the end.HK890
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
Just not quite on it.
Guys like Spencer, Lawrence and Redpath just a touch below where they have been over the last few months. Reid and Barbeary superb, Ewels led well, and MotM would be Coetzee, as he basically won us the game on his own.
Defence needs working on, as Finn bluntly stated in his post match. Still, can’t be too downbeat. 2/2 and 10/10 in Europe and we do play some scintillating stuff. Happy, happy days.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Guys like Spencer, Lawrence and Redpath just a touch below where they have been over the last few months. Reid and Barbeary superb, Ewels led well, and MotM would be Coetzee, as he basically won us the game on his own.
Defence needs working on, as Finn bluntly stated in his post match. Still, can’t be too downbeat. 2/2 and 10/10 in Europe and we do play some scintillating stuff. Happy, happy days.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
You could see Jaco felt he had a point to prove. His reaction after giving away the stupid penalty just after his first try was telling. He's desperate to do well for the team. And as you say he pretty much hauled us over the line on his own at the end. Very pleased for him.
Defence is generally the barometer of a squads mentality going into a game.
We weren't at the races- I still think more fringe starters with a point to prove would have been a better approach but who knows. At the same time have to give a lot of credit to Cardiff.
Weren't great at all but good composure to eventually win it. Bench had a massive impact.
We are into 'fussy' now but I want us to start winning things so analysis has to be harsh.
Dunn missed his man a few times- I know the lineout is lots of moving parts but one throw would have hit the jumpers knees if it hadn't been nicked and one needed the jumper to be about 8ft tall. Good game in every other respect.
Mcnally was good on restarts but always a bit of a tangle-hand in open play.
Cloete gives away far too many pens and doesn't make up enough for that elsewhere.
Finns goalkicking doesn't look v reliable recently.
On the flipside I thought du toit was v good in tight and loose.
Reid was excellent as usual, as was barbeary.
Coko is a real threat and looked a quick and powerful all game.
Schoman , stuart and coetzee were impressive off the bench- coetzee has been a beast in recent weeks.
No injuries that I saw? Roux back- things looking fairly rosey!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:16:22:54:30 by charlieboa.
We weren't at the races- I still think more fringe starters with a point to prove would have been a better approach but who knows. At the same time have to give a lot of credit to Cardiff.
Weren't great at all but good composure to eventually win it. Bench had a massive impact.
We are into 'fussy' now but I want us to start winning things so analysis has to be harsh.
Dunn missed his man a few times- I know the lineout is lots of moving parts but one throw would have hit the jumpers knees if it hadn't been nicked and one needed the jumper to be about 8ft tall. Good game in every other respect.
Mcnally was good on restarts but always a bit of a tangle-hand in open play.
Cloete gives away far too many pens and doesn't make up enough for that elsewhere.
Finns goalkicking doesn't look v reliable recently.
On the flipside I thought du toit was v good in tight and loose.
Reid was excellent as usual, as was barbeary.
Coko is a real threat and looked a quick and powerful all game.
Schoman , stuart and coetzee were impressive off the bench- coetzee has been a beast in recent weeks.
No injuries that I saw? Roux back- things looking fairly rosey!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:16:22:54:30 by charlieboa.
Well done to gabe on his try also.
His time in NZ sounded like it went well.
Wish him all the best- don't think we did great with his development for whatever reason but hopefully he kicks on now.
His time in NZ sounded like it went well.
Wish him all the best- don't think we did great with his development for whatever reason but hopefully he kicks on now.
We are hugely creative, largely emanating from Finn, which is so pleasing after years of dull ineffective attacking play. The flip side is we are too loose at times. This was a game we could well have lost if it hadn’t been for the efforts of one player. I doubt if that will be sufficient against the top sides in either competition. The good thing is that will not please the coaching team so they will focus on those areas. On that we can depend.
I loved that game. End-to-end stuff, loose, sloppy as hell - but never once did we look like we were beaten.
It’s the sort of game we’ve been crying out for for years - entertaining rugby and a million miles away from a couple of seasons ago. In the post match Finn’s response to Sara’s question about whether they were given licence by JVG was most telling- “if it’s on, we’ll go for it”. Temper that with his comments about being pragmatic in poor conditions and I don’t really think as a fan you could ask for much more.
I am delighted Bath seem on their way to being an entertaining side again; I ‘d love us to win every game, but as long as we’ve given a good crack to get there, I’m happy. Thanks Finn and Ben, thanks the amazing backline, thanks the forwards, but mostly thanks Bruce.
It’s the sort of game we’ve been crying out for for years - entertaining rugby and a million miles away from a couple of seasons ago. In the post match Finn’s response to Sara’s question about whether they were given licence by JVG was most telling- “if it’s on, we’ll go for it”. Temper that with his comments about being pragmatic in poor conditions and I don’t really think as a fan you could ask for much more.
I am delighted Bath seem on their way to being an entertaining side again; I ‘d love us to win every game, but as long as we’ve given a good crack to get there, I’m happy. Thanks Finn and Ben, thanks the amazing backline, thanks the forwards, but mostly thanks Bruce.
Cloete is very frustrating it’s not like he is deficient in movement positioning or tackling. He has good hands and doesn’t lack in effort. BUT he seems either to try too hard or just not listen and learn from his penalty count. It is a pity there is a good player in there somewhere.
I thought one of the Cloete pens was harsh but generally agree that he doesn't endear himself refs which is a bit of a worry at 32.
Good to hear Beno praising Blackett pre-game. Not that I want to see JvG go anywhere, but nice to know there's another big rugby brain around to take over.
He went a bit quiet after a strong start but I found myself wondering why Will Muir doesn't get talked about for England more?
Good to hear Beno praising Blackett pre-game. Not that I want to see JvG go anywhere, but nice to know there's another big rugby brain around to take over.
He went a bit quiet after a strong start but I found myself wondering why Will Muir doesn't get talked about for England more?
The defence was disappointing but I’d much rather watch a match where our defence goes awol and it’s 39-32 than one where our attack goes awol and it’s 6-3
Quote:TG Kesmo
Cloete is very frustrating it’s not like he is deficient in movement positioning or tackling. He has good hands and doesn’t lack in effort. BUT he seems either to try too hard or just not listen and learn from his penalty count. It is a pity there is a good player in there somewhere.
Honestly I think it's match sharpness. He's not getting much opportunity because of Underhill so he's trying so hard. He's fired up, trying to play right to the line and he keeps going like 5% over it. Just like Coetzee has played himself back into form, I think Cloete is the same, we and him need to find the right balance.
Haven’t been that angry watching Bath for a long time, absolutely woeful defending and didn’t enjoy it until the final whistle blew. Right up to the end I thought we could blow it.
Can someone remind Cloete that the point of the game isn’t to give away as many stupid penalties as possible.
Those calling for Bailey to replace Finn at some point seem to forget we were losing for most of the game.
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilst playing really poorly.
Can someone remind Cloete that the point of the game isn’t to give away as many stupid penalties as possible.
Those calling for Bailey to replace Finn at some point seem to forget we were losing for most of the game.
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilst playing really poorly.
Quote:hastaQuote:TG Kesmo
Cloete is very frustrating it’s not like he is deficient in movement positioning or tackling. He has good hands and doesn’t lack in effort. BUT he seems either to try too hard or just not listen and learn from his penalty count. It is a pity there is a good player in there somewhere.
Honestly I think it's match sharpness. He's not getting much opportunity because of Underhill so he's trying so hard. He's fired up, trying to play right to the line and he keeps going like 5% over it. Just like Coetzee has played himself back into form, I think Cloete is the same, we and him need to find the right balance.
I don’t think it is match sharpness personally. We have seen this throughout his two seasons at Bath, both when he’s had a run of games and when he’s come in after spells out. The first try was on him racing out the line, gave away two kickball penalties then let Tomos Williams run through him for the try.
This is a man who won the turnover king award in URC with only 500 minutes in a season. I can’t remember the last turnover he has made, I 100% see the vision with him but I think it’s time to put faith in others.
Quote:JK7
He went a bit quiet after a strong start but I found myself wondering why Will Muir doesn't get talked about for England more?
Tell him to move to France and not play well there. That'll get them talking!
We have hill, underhill, barbeary, reid, bayliss, coetzee plus the likes of richards , van velze and staddon (currently out injured). Most of these guys are in seriously good form. Will take the opportunity again to compliment alfie , reid and coetzee on their performances last night and over recent weeks.
I can't see cloete getting regular starts so if needing a run of games is the solution he is probably at the wrong club?
Lots to like about him but a big turnaround this season is our improved discipline- he sometimes feels a bit of a liability on that front.
I can't see cloete getting regular starts so if needing a run of games is the solution he is probably at the wrong club?
Lots to like about him but a big turnaround this season is our improved discipline- he sometimes feels a bit of a liability on that front.
Another 5 points in the bag, didn't see any injuries and was certainly entertaining. The subs made a huge difference - agree with others Cloete and McNally well off the pace yesterday and error prone.
They certainly know what to do for next week - if they leave gaps / dog legs like that in the midfield vs Quins then Marcus Smith will have a field day.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
They certainly know what to do for next week - if they leave gaps / dog legs like that in the midfield vs Quins then Marcus Smith will have a field day.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:I would hate to live inside your joyless world.OutsideBath
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilst playing really poorly.
Horatio Nelson
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:17:12:09:16 by liquidmonkey.
Quote:OutsideBath
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilstplayingdefending really poorly.
FTFY. They scored 39 points whilst leaving a load of kicked points out there.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
We were too overconfident. All we had to do was make tackles but we just underestimated them the breaks from the centre Ben Thomas (24) and Lucas de la Rua (19) and Mason Grady (21) were missed tackles sometimes twice.
It was a young Cardiff side that was always going to be fiery. I agree with CB about the approach to tackling.
The difference from 18 months ago were the likes of Barbeary, Reid and Coetzee who were just far too strong to hold onto even when tackled!
Reid has learned not to waste the ball when he breaks and Muir regularly scores or makes tries, got to love them both.
If we are going to challenge properly we need a regular kicker, shouldn't we be kicking 2 from 3 wide out?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
It was a young Cardiff side that was always going to be fiery. I agree with CB about the approach to tackling.
The difference from 18 months ago were the likes of Barbeary, Reid and Coetzee who were just far too strong to hold onto even when tackled!
Reid has learned not to waste the ball when he breaks and Muir regularly scores or makes tries, got to love them both.
If we are going to challenge properly we need a regular kicker, shouldn't we be kicking 2 from 3 wide out?
Quote:liquidmonkeyQuote:It would hate to live inside your joyless world.OutsideBath
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilst playing really poorly.
My life is very joyful thanks, I guess you just have lower standards than myself.
Whilst being entertaining for the neutral you’ll never convince me that Bath played well last night. Bath are a much better team than the one that turned up last night.
As I said we found a way to win which does bode well for the future.
Quote:9215Quote:hastaQuote:9215Quote:HK890
Bailey got Zero minutes :/ again disappointing. What’s the point in having him there
He didn’t get that many minutes, but it was considerably more than zero
No he didn't, he never came on. Maybe could have at 15.
Who was it playing full back when TdG came off then?
Apologies, the EPC rugby website says he didn't come on.
For me I thought Jaco Coetzee as he has all season looked brilliant, just as I had been told he is now showing injury free just what a player he is I can see why the Stormers are desperate to get him back.
Stuart also looking good post England.
We were too loose last night and I can guarantee JP will ensure we will be a different beast next week.
Stuart also looking good post England.
We were too loose last night and I can guarantee JP will ensure we will be a different beast next week.
Really hard to read too much into this game as there were so many countervailing parts.
+ve away victory incredibly rare. -ve Cardiff one of the weaker teams.
+ve attack becoming much more variable with points coming across the team. -ve defence looks really weak especially in midfield.
+ve set-piece looks much better. -ve line-out still malfunctions.
+ve squad looks much more balanced. -ve discipline still a weakness at times.
We have progressed very quickly and are winning games we wouldn't have been anywhere near last year. So much so that our weaknesses are now glaring in comparison to the overall performance.
I think our lineout has improved (86% yesterday) but is still below par and our scrum looks more settled but not often dominant. Hopefully Roux will bring a bit more grunt and maybe McInally drops down the pecking order.
We need to trust that the management team will get more out of Cloete as they have definitely done out of Coetzee but his temperament/frustration is a worry.
Landy needs to be patient as his choices are starting in a lower-mid table team or back-up to a world class 10. I think JVG has shown players will get game time so patience seems merited.
However take a look at where we are mid-season and we are very much contenders for 2 competitions and our fundamentals have improved across the board. It is also great to hear players like Finn being sensibly critical in a desire to succeed. I also heard from a player this week that they expect to win the premiership this year.
All-in-all, this is much better than anything I had thought possible 3 months ago.
+ve away victory incredibly rare. -ve Cardiff one of the weaker teams.
+ve attack becoming much more variable with points coming across the team. -ve defence looks really weak especially in midfield.
+ve set-piece looks much better. -ve line-out still malfunctions.
+ve squad looks much more balanced. -ve discipline still a weakness at times.
We have progressed very quickly and are winning games we wouldn't have been anywhere near last year. So much so that our weaknesses are now glaring in comparison to the overall performance.
I think our lineout has improved (86% yesterday) but is still below par and our scrum looks more settled but not often dominant. Hopefully Roux will bring a bit more grunt and maybe McInally drops down the pecking order.
We need to trust that the management team will get more out of Cloete as they have definitely done out of Coetzee but his temperament/frustration is a worry.
Landy needs to be patient as his choices are starting in a lower-mid table team or back-up to a world class 10. I think JVG has shown players will get game time so patience seems merited.
However take a look at where we are mid-season and we are very much contenders for 2 competitions and our fundamentals have improved across the board. It is also great to hear players like Finn being sensibly critical in a desire to succeed. I also heard from a player this week that they expect to win the premiership this year.
All-in-all, this is much better than anything I had thought possible 3 months ago.
Quote:If the only positive I was able to get from the game was “at least we didn’t lose” then that would be time to for me to give up and watch something that actually gave me pleasure. I am too old to be wasting my time on things that make me angry. As it was I found the match thoroughly entertaining despite a less than perfect Bath defence. I’d rather watch Bath playing exciting free-flowing rugby than the depressing stodge of recent years even if we let-in a few tries in the process.OutsideBathQuote:liquidmonkeyQuote:It would hate to live inside your joyless world.OutsideBath
Only real positive was the team found a way to win whilst playing really poorly.
My life is very joyful thanks, I guess you just have lower standards than myself.
Whilst being entertaining for the neutral you’ll never convince me that Bath played well last night. Bath are a much better team than the one that turned up last night.
As I said we found a way to win which does bode well for the future.
Horatio Nelson
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:17:12:01:08 by liquidmonkey.
Finn's post match interview was very calm and sensible, pleased with the result but disappointed with the performance. Very good indicator.
Quote:hasta
Finn's post match interview was very calm and sensible, pleased with the result but disappointed with the performance. Very good indicator.
Was spot on wasn't it.
Knew the coaches would get into them this week due to some of defending (and admitted esp from him) but no panic .... just stuff to work on after a win.
Bookies have us at = 10th ranking at 25 - 1
The way Saints are going, at 33 - 1 I reckon that's a decent outside punt
The way Saints are going, at 33 - 1 I reckon that's a decent outside punt
Cardiff Rugby now have new owners.
Gareth Edwards has agreed to become honorary president.
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Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Gareth Edwards has agreed to become honorary president.
[cardiffrugby.wales]
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